Risk-Taking and Its Surprising Rewards in God's Plan

Summary

Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd

Episode: Risk-Taking and Its Surprising Rewards in God’s Plan
Release Date: October 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of Living Influence, co-hosts Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd dive into the theme of risk-taking within the context of God’s purpose and influence in our lives. Through personal stories, biblical illustrations, and reflections on leadership, they explore how embracing risk in faith shapes not only our personal growth but also our capacity to influence and empower others. The conversation underscores the importance of knowing who God says we are and trusting His influence in us so that we can become agents of His love and grace in the world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Risk and Its Spiritual Significance

• Scott opens the episode by expressing his appreciation for risk:

  "Risk is a word that I happen to like. I’ve experienced risk…I’ve experienced also the amazing things God can do when we begin to trust Him." [00:07]

• Reflection on the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25):
  • Scott highlights God’s affirmation of those who risk and the rebuke given to those who hide due to fear.

    “The greatest risk in life is to never take one.” [01:10]

• Bill affirms the message with repeated "Amen," emphasizing agreement and the spiritual importance of the topic. [00:34, 01:30]

2. Risk-Taking in Leadership and Everyday Life

• Scott shares a personal story about coaching his sons' soccer team:
  • Many kids stayed five feet from the ball due to fear of making mistakes.
  • His coaching became about encouraging kids to step in, take risks, and discover their ability.

    “The reason they weren’t jumping in the game was fear of failure...I began to coach where all of my coaching was about helping those nine kids take a risk.” [03:26]

• Connection to business leadership:
  • In his company, Scott realized decision-making is risk-taking.
  • He aimed to empower others by creating a culture where failure was accepted as part of growth, not hidden or punished.

    "The only thing that's not okay is to not be okay with failing. The only thing that's not okay is to try to hide it when you fail." [05:32]

  • Moving away from traditional employee reviews to focus on people’s potential and trust led to growth and empowerment:

    "If you flip that dynamic and you begin to look at people as amazing and as capable of doing amazing, incredible things, and you begin to trust them, they show up in different ways." [07:03]

3. The Impact of Belief, Trust, and Grace

• Importance of being believed in:

  "It's a good thing to believe in people. When you're believed in, it does something to you." [07:33]

• Bill reflects:
  • Knowing you are valuable is transformative for your influence.
  • Scott’s trust empowered his employees and changed their lives.

    "Without exception, they would say that your trust of them changed their lives, because they would say nobody had ever trusted them before." [08:18]

• Business results as a byproduct:
  • Focus on people—trust and empowerment—contributed to impressive, sustained company growth:

    "Our company has grown 15% a year…we've gone from 3 million to 120 million...The engine of the company is loving people and believing in them." [09:20–09:43]

4. Overcoming “Worm Theology” and Minimization

• The problem of minimizing God’s influence in us:
  • Bill introduces “worm theology”—the belief that Christians should minimize themselves for the sake of humility, which actually denies the transformative power of Christ in us.

    "How in the world did our theology get so twisted that the work of Christ in us has to be minimized in the name of spirituality?" [12:28-12:45]

• Celebrating God’s influence, not personal pride:

  "There is no influence through me until there is influence in me." [09:48]

5. The Ripple Effect of Influence: Stories of Changed Lives

• Bill recounts leading Mel, a young Orthodox Jewish man, to Christ:
  • Mel’s decision came with great personal cost, but also with conviction and immediate action.
  • Powerful follow-up question from Mel and his girlfriend Beth:

    "Bill, what do we do now?" [14:47]

  • Bill’s vulnerability in realizing he hadn’t prepared for discipleship led to a shift in his ministry, focusing not just on conversion but on walking with people as they grow.
• Hospitality and long-term investment:
  • Bill and his wife became foundational figures in Mel and Beth’s lives, showing the depth and longevity of influence.

    "That young couple, they would say, ate 200 meals a year at our house the next three years of their lives." [18:07]

  • The impact continued for decades—Mel became foundational in multiple ministries and is writing his story 55 years later.

    "It's a life that God used to change me." [19:39]

6. Purpose Over Direction

• Bill introduces the difference between seeking direction (tasks, places) and seeking purpose (the people and impact around you):

  "Don’t look for direction, look for purpose...Destiny is about purpose. It's about the person in front of me." [19:06–19:18]

7. The Scandal and Call of Believing Christ Is in You

• Boldness in believing God’s presence in yourself and others:

  "If I'm going to be so bold to believe that Christ is in my heart...then I've got to believe the same is true for you." [20:31]

• Taking action as evidence of faith:

  "The real question for Christians is not, is Christ in you? ...Do you trust that he’s in you? ...You’d act upon it. Learn to act upon the reality of the influence of God in you, and lives will be changed." [21:25–21:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Scott Boyd:

  “The greatest risk in life is to never take one.” [01:10]
  "The reason they weren’t jumping in the game was fear of failure..." [03:26]
  "It's a scandal to believe it's true for me...And it does something when I go, okay, I'm going to believe you, God." [20:42]

• Bill Thrall:

  “There is no influence through me until there is influence in me.” [09:48]
  "How in the world did our theology get so twisted that the work of Christ in us has to be minimized in the name of spirituality?" [12:28]
  "Don’t look for direction, look for purpose." [19:06]
  “The real question for Christians is not, is Christ in you?...Do you trust that He's in you?...You’d act upon it.” [21:25–21:50]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction to risk and the parable of the talents: [00:03–01:31]
• Coaching story – helping kids take risks: [02:15–05:29]
• Risk in business and leadership: [05:29–07:32]
• Belief and empowerment in leadership: [07:32–09:37]
• Company growth as a result of trust culture: [09:04–09:43]
• Challenging “minimizing” theologies: [12:02–12:45]
• The story of Mel and Beth—conversion, risk, and discipleship: [13:08–18:03]
• Hospitality and lifelong influence: [18:03–19:06]
• Purpose vs. direction in life: [19:06–19:18]
• The boldness of trusting God’s indwelling: [20:31–21:04]
• The actionable challenge to trust and take risks: [21:25–21:54]

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Summary Takeaways

• Risk is central to experiencing God’s influence and fulfilling the purpose He gives us, both personally and in how we lead others.
• A culture of trust and belief—for ourselves and for those we influence—unlocks growth, innovation, and lives truly changed by God’s grace.
• Avoid minimizing God’s work in you; embracing and acting upon His presence is the foundation of authentic, impactful influence.
• Purpose is found in the people and moments right in front of us—not just in searching for the next step or place.
• True discipleship and influence often involve long-term, vulnerable investment in others’ lives.
• Every act of faith is a risk, but it’s the kind of risk God calls us to, promising transformation for us and those around us.

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Transcript

[A]

Are you willing to risk trusting the influence of God in you for the benefit of others? Welcome to this week's episode of Living Influence. You know, Bill, risk is a word that I happen to like. I've experienced risk. I've experienced not being sure whether my risk was going to work out. I've experienced how scary it is. But I've experienced also the amazing things God can do when we begin to trust Him.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Makes me think of the parable of the talents, which I think is a significant parable, where of course, God gives one guy five, one guy two, and one guy one talent. And the guy with five goes and he risks the five talents in the marketplace and he brings back 10 and he's. He's affirmed and praised. Next guy risks two talents in the marketplace and brings back four and he again is praised. And then the third guy has this one talent and he's worried about losing it and so he buries it so that he can return it and he's rebuked. It seems harsh because, you know, some people are fear based and do they. Do you deserve a rebuke when you won't take a risk? But it leads. One of my favorite expressions is the greatest risk in life is to never take one.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

This is something we want to encourage people to do because God has given you purpose. And taking risk in that purpose will lead you to something amazing in your life. And I want everybody to experience that. It's like, oh, my goodness. It's like this grace message. When I experience this grace message, it's like, oh, people need to know this.

[B]

Yes, they do.

[A]

It's a game changer. It's not me wanting to. Now I know and I can tell you how. No, it's not that easy. It's. No, I've experienced something that if you experience it will inform you and it will change your life. I won't. It'll be God that changes your life.

[B]

Well said.

[A]

I had a story, and it's a story about God's influence through me, through my leadership. And it began with me coaching my sons in rec soccer. I have three boys and they all played soccer. You know, I would watch other dads coach soccer and it'd be like, it was hard for me to watch. And so it was pretty soon before I was volunteering to do it because I just, it was hard to watch. And so in rec soccer, you would get a group of kids and let's say you got 13 kids, you're going to play 11 and you're going to play them all equally. And in any group of 13, you might have two that are really superstar athletes. They're like, oh my gosh, these guys are great. And then you're going to have two that are like, they have trouble running in a straight line and. And they got like, they had two left feet. So you got a couple of kids, you got to try to figure out how to help, but also hide a couple of kids that are going to try to do it all. And so that's 13 minus 4. So you got nine kids. And these nine kids would run up and down the field and they would always be five feet from the ball. They were fast enough, they were coordinated enough that they would always be 5ft from the ball, but they would stay 5ft from the ball while the other team's superstar would dribble down and shoot and score on them. They were there, but they were five feet away and we didn't stop them and they scored on us. And so I found that I needed to create an environment where these kids would actually step in and participate and take that five foot distance and like jump in the game. And of course I asked myself, why, why aren't they jumping in the game? And the reason they weren't jumping in the game was fear of failure, was they were afraid that they would make a mistake. And so I began to coach where all of my coaching was about helping those nine kids take a risk. Because oftentimes when we would be successful on the soccer field, there would be one or two kids that would take a risk and fail, take a risk and fail. But each time they did that, the ball got a little further away from the superstar till the third kid could steal it, take a pass, move it forward, and all of a sudden we'd score a goal. And so it was all about encouraging that risk taking and helping those kids believe in themselves that, look, you're going to help the team when you, when you take a risk and you jump in. And that piece began to define my life and my leadership with my company. I began to see, when I got into business and I started to grow this company, I began to see, oh, when people make decisions, that's risk taking. You've heard the guy goes, well, that's above my pay grade.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there are people that they don't want to take that risk.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I got to help them take the risk. How do I trust them and give them responsibility and delegate and then make them know it's okay if they fail? The only thing that's not okay is to not be okay with failing. The only thing that's not okay is to try to hide it when you fail. There's a book I've always wanted to write, which maybe I need to take a risk on. Just make that statement right today. But it's lead like a sinner. Can I lead the people in my company in a way that they know I make mistakes? And it's not about not making mistakes. It's about actually taking risk. And I wanted my people to take risk. I wanted. I wanted to delegate to them and give them control. And I wanted them to experience growing and succeeding and getting better at what they did. And so we became focused on our people. We never would do employee reviews. I hated employee reviews. Where. I'm going to grade you now. Okay, well, here you met expectations, and here you didn't meet expectations. And so you're going to get a four out of five. And so here's your raise. If I'm reviewing a person and trying to notice where he failed and where he succeeded, I'm going to find that he fails. It's like, if I'm looking for. If they keep the rules, I'm going to find rule breakers. But if you flip that dynamic and you begin to look at people as amazing and as capable of doing amazing, incredible things, and you begin to trust them, they show up in different ways. My grandpa made me feel special. It's a good thing to know that you're special.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

It's a good thing to believe in people. When you're believed in, it does something to you. And so all of this is connected to, really grace and God's purpose for our life.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Amen. As I hear your story and as we've talked, Scott, it's like you have learned a lesson from God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That you are valuable.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You've learned that lesson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that affects your influence. Some of your employees have been in my cohorts, so. So I. I'm experiencing through them what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And without exception, they would say that your trust of them changed their lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they would say nobody had ever trusted them before. Think of Matt. Big, huge man. But. But he was like a little boy when he talked about being valued and known.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as you've said, your experience with God and others you trusted made you a vehicle of influence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For the benefit of others. And they now believe in themselves.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Just remind us, what does that impact have on your business? How does it change the dynamic of your Business.

[A]

Yeah. As that's been the focus in my business of trusting people, of. Of empowering them, of. Of. Of loving them in that, you know, in that process. I think from 2003 till today. So that's 22 years.

[B]

22 years.

[A]

Our company has grown 15% a year.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

That's an incredible number. Number. We've gone from 3 million to 120 million.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was initially me, and now it's me and my sons and. And a bunch of other people. I mean, there's an. It's an amazing group of people.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

It's the engine of the company is loving people and believing in them.

[B]

I love that because it's. It fits what we're talking about right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God's influence through you. There is no influence through me until there is influence in me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And your story of trusting God with staying in that church, committed, gave you the courage to risk trusting God. And you know, Scott, that it works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so you're giving others the opportunity. They may not know the Bible. They may not know. They may not go to church. That's not the point. The point is they're given an opportunity to believe that they have purpose and can maximize their efforts with others. That, to me, is just amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Now, it's not like there wasn't a moment when I almost went bankrupt.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Or where I had to go to my mother and borrow money. I mean, it's. My late wife bought me some wine that she found when she was in the grocery store, and she just was so tickled with herself. And I bought it because of the label, Scott. And the label was outrageously optimistic. She says, you're always outrageously optimistic. And then she would say, nothing ever turns out as well as you think it will. It never goes as easy as you think it's gonna be. And she was right. But I had a retort to her. And we never thought we would be here today.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

We never thought God would bring us where he's brought us to.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

With the influence that we have and the opportunity that we have. And my friends would tease me, like, what? You read a book that you liked and now you're good friends with the author. How do you do that? I don't know. I just did.

[B]

Well, but I think, as we think together just this term, God's influence through me. Unfortunately, Scott, there are many, many Christians whose theology is to minimize them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We call it worm theology.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so for them to even hear two men Right. Even suggest that because of God's influence in them, they have an influence on others. Sounds to them like two egomaniacs ragging on themselves like it's pride. How dare they? No, no, the problem isn't how dare they. The problem is how in the world did our theology get so twisted that the work of Christ in us has to be minimized in the name of spirituality?

[A]

Yeah. Wow.

[B]

No, no, that denies the power of the cross. When I think, Scott, of God's influence through me, a young couple comes to mind. Their names are Mel and Beth Schultz. Mel was 18 and Beth was 16 when I first met them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Beth came to Christ at a concert from one of our music groups on a Wednesday night. And Mel came over to see me on the next morning and Mel was a long haired young man who grew up in an Orthodox Jewish home. And we sat in our family room on the couch and I, because it was in those days we were all about evangelism. How many young people can we lead to Christ?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I'm sitting on the couch with Mel and I'm leading him through the message of the gospel. And we've had other encounters prior to this, so it wasn't new. And, and he stood up and got really white faced almost and he said to me, bill, do you have any idea what this is going to cost me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I said, I couldn't. I'm not Jewish, Mal. I couldn't live in what you're expecting could happen. My family's going to disown me. He said, I'm sure that's true. But he said, I know Jesus is the Messiah, I'm going to accept him. And it was a powerful, powerful time. But what happened the next day changed my life. My influence led Mel to Christ.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the next day, maybe as early as 8 o' clock in the morning, Mel and Beth standing at our door, knocking on the door. Yeah. Why are you here? Profound question. Changed my life, Bill, what do we do now?

[A]

Yeah, what do we do now?

[B]

Scott, I had the privilege of leading a lot of young adults to Christ, but I never ever thought about necessarily next steps. They're Christian now, God bless them. And all of a sudden this couple is standing in my house and asking me, what do we do next?

[A]

So what happened in you in that question?

[B]

Oh, what happened to me was this. God, I am not prepared, honestly, I said this in my heart. I have not prepared me to help this couple begin to live the Christian life. And I want you to know, Scott, that little simple prayer. That moment right there in that hall changed my life because it began for me to search the scripture not to how to become a Christian, but to how to trust God with a life that I now have because I'm a Christian.

[A]

I had a similar experience. I mean, it's couched differently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Questec was becoming successful. I had a guy come to me, wanted to tell me. He says, scott, I love it here. I want to retire from questec. I was still in the imposter syndrome. Like, I'm kind of pretending to be a contractor, but I'm really, I don't know if I really am. I mean, it's kind of like a house of mirrors and smoke. And I want to retire from here. And I was like, oh, my gosh, God, if, if you can't help me grow this, I'll be the ruin of this place. It did something in me.

[B]

Exactly. Again, it was a learning moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A huge learning moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now that moment in my life did something. I was still about evangelism. We had now these rock and roll bands, and we were seeing a lot of kids come to Christ. But really what was happening is that I was spending as much time as I knew how to help young men and women grow in who God says they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That dear young couple, Mel and Beth, less than a month later, at 18 and 16, they get married.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Beth's pregnant with their first son. And Grace and I are the only people at their wedding.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

[B]

We went down to the court, and Tamel was right. Mel was right. Nobody from his family could come to the wedding because he was marrying a Gentile and listen to the opposite. And nobody in her family came because she was marrying a Jew. So there was just Grace and me. Grace and I spent the afternoon with Mel and Beth at a Polynesian restaurant on Central Avenue in Phoenix, celebrating their wedding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now back to this God's influence through me thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That young couple, they would say, ate 200 meals a year at our house the next three years of their lives.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

It's amazing now for another time.

[A]

It's amazing that you guys were that hospitable and open.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it was, it was a learning, Scott. See, we, we were vulnerable to learning. I, I okay, now what are we gonna do with them?

[A]

So we got to do something.

[B]

Got to do something with them. And here they are. And they became foundational. They became foundational at Arizona Bible Camp. They became foundational open door fellowships. One of our first elders. They became foundational to hand in hand. They became foundational to all that we were doing. Now, would I have known any of that, leading a Jewish kid to Christ?

[A]

No.

[B]

It's like I keep trying to say to people, don't look for direction, look for purpose. Look for purpose.

[A]

So tell me the difference between direction.

[B]

Because if you look for direction, I'm looking for something to do. I'm looking for a place to go, you know, as if my destiny is a place to go.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Destiny is about purpose. It's about the person in front of me. It's about everyone I influence. It's. It's about an expanded influence in our lives beyond anything we could imagine. So. So this young couple, Mel, becomes exceedingly successful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, exceedingly successful. And right now, right now, on my desk, Mel has. Has written and is writing an amazing book about their life. That was 55 years ago. Now. It's just one life. No, it's not just one life. No. It's a life that God used to change me. And I learn and continue to learn. We talked about convictions a little bit. One of my convictions that I trust, I'm honoring. Is this the significance of each one? Yeah, that's one of my. That's one of my. I. I believe that I am honored when I honor that person who's in front of me today, whoever they are.

[A]

If I'm going to be so bold to believe that Christ is in my heart.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Then I've got to believe the same is true for you.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

I mean, it's a scandal to believe it's true for me. It is with my own baggage and whatever lies that I tell myself and whatnot. And it does something when I go, okay, I'm going to believe you, God.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

I'm going to believe you're in me. And therefore I can't not help but believe you're in others.

[B]

Amen. Well said. So can I rely on. Can I trust the truth of what you just said about God in me now? How would I know? How would anybody know they're trusting you? They would act upon it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

They would act upon it. The real question for Christians is not, is Christ in you? They'd all answer, yeah, yeah, we got Bible says Christ in me now. I'm asking you this. Do you trust that he's in you? Well, how would I do that? You'd act upon it. Learn to act upon the reality of the influence of God in you, and lives will be changed.

[A]

And that takes a risk. Amen and we invite you to risk.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

We hope we're influencing you, and we hope to see you next week. Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.