← Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
Loading summary
Transcript41 lines
- [00:04]
A
Hey, guys, I just want to tell you about something else that Bill Voldemort and I are working on. It's called Living Influence Leadership. It's for business leaders who also happen to be Christians. We think we've got some great stuff that can be amazing in your company as it was in mine. Check us out@livinginfluenceleadership.com welcome to Living Influence. I'm your host, Scott Boyd, along with my friend, my mentor, Bill Thrall. Bill, how are you doing today?
- [00:32]
B
I'm doing well, Scott, thank you. Ready to just talk with you through some of these maturing questions and statements. They're just so important to us.
- [00:43]
A
It's a great topic because everybody knows they want to grow.
- [00:48]
B
Absolutely.
- [00:49]
A
Everyone wants to grow.
- [00:51]
B
Absolutely.
- [00:53]
A
When we grow, like, let's say I want to grow my muscles, so that means I have to go to the gym and I got to work out. And that's a process that exists in our flesh. If I want to run a marathon, I have to start running a mile, and then I run two miles, and then I run three. And so it's like I just got to work harder. But that's not the process for spiritual growth. It's a totally different process, but I think we make that equation too often, and it hurts us.
- [01:27]
B
As you just wisely said, it's an assumed one. For one, spiritual maturity absolutely involves trust, not effort. Absolutely. And we'll talk about that in a variety of ways. But, boy, when I think that I can do things through my effort that will grow me up spiritually, I will remain spiritually immature. So foundational. Scott, you just hit it on the head. Foundational to maturing is understanding who I trust and what I trust. Foundational. Foundational to maturing.
- [02:12]
A
Let me read this statement that we're going to use to start this conversation for this week's podcast. Important with an exclamation point. Believers and maturing leaders will adapt themselves to your expectations. Whenever we allow someone else to live according to our expectations, we're thwarting their maturity. We want to be about teaching them the truth about who they are, and we want to be teaching them truth about who God says they are and what his purposes are for them. So expectations. I read this statement, and it's like, whenever we allow someone else to live according to our expectations, we're thwarting their maturity. I don't understand that sentence. Can you help me?
- [03:06]
B
I'm not sure, but I'll try because I wrote it, so maybe. Maybe I should. What happens, Scott? Is that in relationships, I'll say a parent, a Christian leader, let's just say a Christian leader. You have individuals who are interested in what you have to offer them. They just do. They want to follow you. You're a well known Christian leader and you have to be very, very careful. And I'm going to include parents in just a minute. Because when I create, Scott, the expectations I have for your life, even if my intentions are good, you will learn to live to the level of my expectations. But that does not mean that you will actually grow up. Let me put it right in the immediate context of parenting. I'm going to sound super negative here. I'll try to make it positive. Christian parents are especially bad at creating expectations of the way their children should live, act, behave, because they're Christians or they're a Christian family. It's the right thing to do. This is this. We're Christians. This is what we should do. In our book the Cure for Parents, we wrote these statements. When children live to the level of their expectation of their parents expectations, when the child leaves home, they will hold their parents responsible for their choices. That's a tragic reality. Because what the child didn't learn from the parent, the child didn't learn who they were, how to make right choices. They just learned how to behave according to their parents expectations and Christian leaders. Quite honestly, Scott, I've been with a lot of leaders. They have that same problem. They create a pattern of what they call godly living and they entice people into following that pattern. Well, that's not true. My caution is to at this point, Christians who have a following, be very, very careful. The very thing you hope you are doing may be just the opposite of their reality. Living to your expectations, as godly as you think they are, does not create maturity in them. So maturity in them is really dependent upon the truth you teach them that they trust. I'll say that again. Their maturity is totally dependent on their trusting the truth in what you teach. And if they can get by with behaving in such a way as to meet your expectation, they will. Because guess what? I hate to say this, Scott, but it's easier to mask behavior than it is to make choices of trust.
- [06:36]
A
Okay, I'll just do that because that'll make them happy. And then I won't, I won't actually learn to trust truth.
- [06:43]
B
Exactly. And your statement is it might make them happy, but because I don't understand what I'm now saying, I actually believe if I do what they expect of me, It'll actually make me godly. Scott. That's a painful disappointment in thousands of followers. Thousands of followers. We're very, very careful with our influence. I'm especially careful because of this principle we're teaching. I'm very, very careful when I'm meeting with someone to ask them questions about their development than I am. I'm more interested in doing that than I asking them did they get the right answer to what I taught last week. I don't want them to have the right answers. I want them to have the right life.
- [07:35]
A
This is really interesting to me on a couple different levels. One, I failed at a lot of this with my own parenting, and I was very focused on wanting my kids to behave and look the right way and less. Less interested in seeing who they were and encouraging them in that. I mean, it just. When I think about that, I. Causes me. Yeah. Hurt a little bit. I was flirting with another thought that I've always had when I. In leading people, I never wanted to lead people to follow my competencies, to follow me in being competent. I think that's the same thing. Same thing.
- [08:17]
B
What is the alternative? What did you want?
- [08:20]
A
I wanted them to follow me in my humanity.
- [08:23]
B
Absolutely. Well said.
- [08:26]
A
Yeah. I wanted him to know it's okay to make us. It's okay to make a mistake. We all make mistakes. And if. If it's okay to make a mistake, it's okay to bring it into the light. And so in a company where you make it okay to be human, you get a chance to actually see the mistakes you're making and fix them by. By adding systems, by changing processes and whatnot. But if you lead your company by follow me and my competency, then when someone makes a mistake, which they will make, they'll hide it. And now your company struggles, and you can't see why you're struggling.
- [09:10]
B
It's just.
- [09:10]
A
It's like. It's so simple on how that works, but so competencies and expectations. Yeah, I was. I was stumbling as you were talking because I was going in my head trying to think, is this the same thing? I think it might be.
- [09:25]
B
I think it is. I think you've processed it well. And back to something we said in another podcast. I'll just repeat it here. You use the words. Well, here's the deal. Guess what happens when I fail to meet your expectations? I hide from you. And when I hide from you, there is damage done. That can take a whole lot of money sometimes in a business or a whole lot of time in a relationship
- [09:52]
A
to Heal or a whole lot of time in a family with estrangements and people that can't get along and I
- [09:59]
B
want to back up into something. Does that mean I should have no expectations for my children? Of course not. I should. My children should know what my expectations are for them. What they shouldn't know is that my expectations are to be met for them to become lovable, Significant, important. No, no, Just a silly little thing. When our children went into high school, we had the expectation that they would be on a team. That was just one of our expectations. You can be on any team you want. Our son Bill chose the tennis team. Our daughter Wendy chose track. She was a 400 in those days. A 400 yard runner.
- [10:45]
A
Runner.
- [10:46]
B
And our youngest daughter. This is so cute, Scott. One day she came to me and she's so non athletic. I mean just totally non athletic. And she came to me one day and she said, dad, is choir a team? Is choir?
- [11:04]
A
Yeah. Yes, yes it is. Yeah.
- [11:06]
B
Choir's a team.
- [11:07]
A
Yeah.
- [11:08]
B
So. So she growed. She grew. Retired. Now, now here's the deal. Those kids honored their dad's expectation. But I was clear to them why I had the expectation. I, I wanted them to experience being alongside others and depending on others, etc. Etc. Etc. So it's not wrong to have expectations as long as you're explaining your expectation and the truth behind it without demanding performance to honor it. I just said a mouthful there, Scott. That's a huge mouthful. But, but I've been alongside a lot of Christian leaders. I want to give you a ministry experience. I was working with a large international Christian organization and we had a room, probably a 400 of their top international leaders. And I said to the group, what I'd like you to do is your assignment before we get back together. Whenever it was, I want you to do something. I want you to clarify your expectations for the people you are responsible for. Just write them out. Write out your expectations. And then I said, and then I want you to ask the people that you are responsible for when. What their expectations are of you. And Scott, it was like an electric volt went through the audience. And I am not kidding you instantly, like at the same moment, eight, eight guys just jumped to their feet just like, wow. And. And I went, what is that? One guy just screamed out, no, no, I'm. No, I don't want. They need to know what my expectations are of them. I don't need to know what their expectations are of me. And. And the other seven guys said, we agree. And, and I went, I can tell why your ministry's suffering. You. You guys don't know yet what you just said, but I can tell you why your ministry's suffering, because expectations need to be mutually expressed.
- [13:11]
A
I got another work story.
- [13:13]
B
Please do.
- [13:13]
A
So, HR departments want you to have an employee review every year. And. And you grade your employees on, did they meet my expectations on these six, seven things? And then often HR departments want to use that as a rubric to try to determine what kind of raise everyone gets and all that stuff. And I hated it. It's like, no. If there's an expectation that's not being met, I want to tell them the moment I notice it's not being met and figure out how we can fix it. So the employee review became my opportunity to get feedback from my employees on how I was doing as an employer, how I was. How was their career going at questec, you know, and so. And it literally, it was like, how am I meeting your expectations? I mean, that really was exactly what
- [14:08]
B
we did, which is crazy, Scott. That is exactly what we're talking about. And that is why your company is healthy, your employees trust you, and you have, I'm not picking on you. I'm going to honor you. And you have the humility. Instead of giving them a checklist of how well they're doing, you have the humility to ask them, how are I doing? And, you know, because you've told me this story, their commitment to you and the company and the way in which they contribute to your success is amazing. I hope there are some business leaders listening to us right now. And I hope these business leaders who are listening to us could learn from you, Scott, the profound truth of what you just shared. It isn't just my expectations, but am I willing to learn what your expectations are of me? And you know what, Scott? I wasn't ever there. But I know that over time, you heard some of the best truth about yourself you've ever heard.
- [15:18]
A
No, it was amazing to get good feedback like that. And when I was in the game and in all of those relationships, there were some of those days where I got to do that with our people were so emotional in our connection and our love for each other, in our amazement in what had happened over time. It just was. It was really special. You've often also. I've been in cohorts where you've done this. Ask your children, how am I meeting your. Like, ask your adult children, how am I meeting your expectations of me? What a scary question.
- [15:59]
B
It is, Scott. Yet it is so important. I mean, children. Children, if they're parented through the process, get to do it. But a lot of people I've talked to said, you know what? I would never do that with my dad. And I think there's a lot of employees out there, Scott, that would honestly say, I'd never do that with my boss. I could never do that with my boss. But you have learned, Scott, because of God's grace in your company. We talked about this before. You've learned to create an atmosphere of where trust flourishes. Therefore, people have permission. That's a key word. They have permission to openly talk to you. And like you just said, and in those meetings when you had them, it was very emotional. I thought. Thought you were running a business. What. What business runs on those dynamics? I know. I would say, Scott, a very successful business does.
- [17:01]
A
Yeah.
- [17:01]
B
And as we think about this, this is a big, big deal we're talking about. I have expectations. Do those I love know what they are? Have I explained them well? And am I willing to listen to theirs? Whether I'm a boss, a pastor, a mother, whatever I am. There are others in my life, and I want to honor them. I'm meeting with a couple right now, and this is just the coincidence of it, but I meet with them every twice a month. And the last time we met because they're struggling, Their relationship is in a hard place. I gave them this assignment, Scott. I said, I want you to go home and together sit at the safe side of the table, and I want you to write down what your expectations are for your marriage. And the wife looked at me and she said, you want us to do that together? Yes, I actually want you to do that together. So here's. It's a super negative, but I think it's an important principle, Scott. There are certain dynamics that create real pain in us. Somebody sins against me, that hurts. I sin against somebody. I feel bad, I hurt. But, you know, one of the other great sources of our pain is our unmet expectations. Let me give you a real. I've sat across the table from hundreds of people, the number of people across the table, who had the expectation of a father's love and never believed they experienced it. I just want you to know that wound runs deep.
- [18:52]
A
So what do we tell our audience? That wound runs deep.
- [18:56]
B
Expectations are a big deal. I want to be careful that when I share my expectations, I share my reasons for your benefit, not mine. I want to be careful that I allow you to share your expectations with me. I want to be careful that we together decide which expectations we should or should not be able to meet and our commitment to meet them. I want to be careful that I never let my expectations create the patterns by which you live. I want to be careful that if I have truth to share with you, that you are learning to trust the truth. I share for the benefit of your person, not to do what I expect because you think you're benefiting my person. Those are some of the things I want our audience to think about when they think about expectations. Yeah.
- [19:51]
A
And let me tell you, if you're just listening to this right now, you might want to rewind and listen again because I'm going to have to do the same. That was some really good classic Bill Thrall there. Very well done, Bill.
- [20:05]
B
Thank you, my brother.
- [20:06]
A
I think this conversation on expectations and maturing is has been really good. We want to thank our audience for listening. We want to invite you to come back next week. We love to hear from you. So leave comments, write us a letter, find us on our website on livinginfluence.com we love you guys. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to Living Influence. We appreciate you. Just a call to action. We would love it if you would share our podcast with one or two people this week. Thanks again.