← Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
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- [00:04]
A
Welcome to Living Influence once again. I'm Scott Boyd, your host, along with my really good friend, Bill Thrall. Bill, it's good to be with you again.
- [00:12]
B
Thank you, Scott. Good to be here, brother.
- [00:14]
A
The mature, we're talking about maturity, are careful to never be tempted by the power that can be inherent in the position. Immature leaders will move to the power in their position because they do not have confidence in the influence of their person. Influence is in our person and not in our position. Mature leaders learn how to receive power and they do not pursue it. I have young leaders in my company all the time and they think that, okay, now I'm a leader. That means everybody's going to do what I say. And they, they soon discover there's severe limits to the power of their position. Even though there is absolutely there is power in their position, it's limited. And if they're going to be a good leader, they're going to learn how to get people to buy in to what they're trying to do. And, and they're going to use. And to get that buy in, they have to use their influence.
- [01:17]
B
Absolutely.
- [01:18]
A
It's always, absolutely always fun to watch that lesson play out with people.
- [01:23]
B
Yeah, it's a learning process because we're talking about maturing. It's a maturing process. As I think about this whole concept of power and the pursuit of power, I can't help but just remember several words in scripture, but one model himself, Jesus. But you know, it says in First Peter and Philippians chapter 2 that God actually exalts the humble. That's a promise of God. Jesus did something very amazing among a zillion amazing things. Jesus, God knew that humanity, because of sin, innately rebels against authority. They just do. We rebel against authority. It's part of our nature. And so what does God do? God becomes a man. He humbled himself. It says in Philippians chapter two, he humbled himself and he became a man. And what did he do? He laid aside his authority. And what does that mean? I say this to a lot of people. God wanted us to know his person, not just his authority, but he laid aside his authority so we'd know his person. And when we know his person, his name is Jesus. It's very important that we understand that Jesus is all God is. He is God, but He did something. And it's a lesson for those of us who have been gifted of him to accomplish things. And that is to with humility, trust him with our influence and not pursue position. But when given position, never use it for our own benefit. Those are just a lot of words, but boy, they're powerful to me because so often as you just modeled for us and these young leaders in your business, so often the presumption is that position gives me authority. No, no it doesn't. It gives you opportunity. What you do with the opportunity is dependent on the maturity of your person. I want to say that again. Position gives you opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is dependent on the maturity of your person. When you, whoever the you is, when you use that position of authority to get your way for your benefit, everyone you influence suffers later on. In our material, we talk about some of the attributes of people who are humble and have authority. But you know, moms and dads sometimes miss a huge point, Just a huge point. Why can't I do it that dad? Because I said so. I'm dad and I'm in charge and I said so. That child learns to not trust that dad. I say to a lot of parents I have for years, I say this, never say no without reason. When you have a position of authority, never say no without reason. They don't have to agree with your reason, but they have to know you have one. And, and it's something besides. I'm the boss, I'm the dad, I'm the mom, I'm the husband. No, no, no, no, no. That's always an abuse of position. Always an abuse of position.
- [05:07]
A
It is so interesting how when we don't have the position, we think we don't have influence. And then when we get the position, we find our influence is really limited. People also, when they think their power comes from their position and we know it doesn't. And so then they misuse their position and people give only their compliance, or even worse yet, don't do what they're being asked to do because they don't agree with it, that leader becomes a blamer.
- [05:39]
B
Wow, Good insight.
- [05:41]
A
That leader blames his people for his lack of success.
- [05:45]
B
How do you handle that, Scott, in the workplace, when, when you see that's happening, when a leader becomes a blamer, that the people are the reason he's not succeeding or she's not succeeding. How do you handle that in the workplace?
- [06:01]
A
I start with the truth that I believe. And so in my example, it's always a foreman on a job, running a job, and he's got three men working for him. So the truth that I tell the foreman is I said every person we have working for us wants to be able to do a great job. And if we find out they don't, we'll try to fire them, we'll get rid of them if that's the case. But almost always, it's almost never the case. Everyone wants to be a really good employee. Everyone wants to go home at the end of the day going, I had a really good day. I got a lot done. It was a valuable day. And so I start with my foreman on here's truth about people. And you got to begin to believe that's true. And so if you're not getting that from these people, then you're not influencing them very well, because otherwise you would get that from them. So you have to start by helping them understand the goal, helping them understand where we want to go, why we want to get there, what that needs to look like. And, and then you gotta start helping equip them so that they have the information they need, they have the tools they need, they have all of the pieces they need to be successful. Because if you give them all the tools they need, the tools, the supplies, the resources, the know how, if you give that all to them so that they can be successful, guess what? You'll find out? You'll find out that they are. And so if you can own that, that's the job of the foreman. You're going to do this job so much better than if you think it's just about telling people what to do.
- [07:44]
B
If I put it in a context, the same principles, in a context like a family, you use the word comply. Authority causes people to comply and, or rebel when they are seeing a person that they can trust, who has their best in mind, they can from that person learn truth. And those employees, when those foremen trust them, they do something, they honor the foreman. They actually want to do a job. I say this, yeah, yeah, we've said this in our book on parenting as best we could. But often parents, in the name of authority, raise children who are unbelievable compliant. They do whatever mom and dad says they need to do. And mom and dad are amazed at a wonderful children they have until the child turns into a teenager and then the teenager has learned that compliance doesn't work for them and that family has a mess. But the principle is the same. If I am a person who is using my position and the authority in it, the people under me will not mature. But if I have the courage for them to know my person, then the people under me can learn truth from me and they will mature. That's just an amazing principle of power and authority.
- [09:32]
A
Let me read this next paragraph. We had. The pursuit of power will eventually corrupt the leader and those he or she influences. Power will destroy us if we're not humble. The reason many people are not in positions of godly influence is because God cannot trust them with the power of the position.
- [09:59]
B
If I don't understand how to trust God with my person, which is called humility, if I don't know how to trust God with my person, then what happens is I will learn to excel at your expense, and I will compete with you for position. That's tragic. And even Christians, or maybe even sometimes especially Christians. And the last line of that statement says, because God cannot trust them. Here's an interesting thing we're learning, Scott. The humble trust God, and God learns that he therefore can trust the humble. Isn't that beautiful? And when he trusts the humble, he puts them into significant positions of power and authority. We have biblical models of a Joseph, of a Daniel, of a David. Just think of these three. And there's others, but just think of those three. None of them pursued power, but in their humility, God gave them unbelievable influence. Daniel and Joseph, they were the number two rulers in the greatest empires on the earth in that day. I just. What? See? So it's like Bill and Scott. What are you saying? Are you telling me that as a developing leader, my goal is not to seek the position? No. Let God give you the position. And he will, if he can, trust your humility. Ouch. I don't like that formula. Well, that may be true, but in reality, it is amazing, Scott, how God uses the humble. And again, because of the session we just did a week ago, and now this one, if you don't mind me using you as an example again, Scott, your desire, because of your humility, was for people in your business to succeed. And you not only would want them to succeed, you would actually create opportunities for their success. Would you tell us a story of how you change the annual reviews? It just models this for me beautifully.
- [12:35]
A
Yeah, I think we talked about it a couple weeks ago, but, yeah, the annual. It's like on the annual review, if I'm looking for a law breaker, you know, here's the six things you need to be doing, and we're gonna. We're gonna review you on these six things. Meets expectations, exceeds expectations, needs improvement. You know, we're gonna talk about where they needed improvement. I. For me, if something needed improvement, it's a behavior that's about the behavior, not the person. And it needed to be talked about the moment it happened. The closer you could get to the moment it happened and talk about, hey, we gotta correct this, what was going on here? And we do it with respect and trust and belief in the person. But we then, but we make it clear how that behavior, whatever it was, was negative in the company or why. And so we get to the end of the year and the deck's clean. Why is the deck clean? Because we deal with the issues with what an amazing.
- [13:45]
B
Scott, the deck's clean is an amazing model. I love this model. And then what do you do at the annual review? If you don't review that, what do you do?
- [13:53]
A
I go, how are we doing? Tell me about the favorite, tell me about the favorite thing that you get to do in your job. Tell me about the most frustrating thing that you get to do in their job. How's your job going? Where are you hoping this is going to end up with? It would be an opportunity for me to hear feedback from them on how things were going. And oftentimes it would be an emotional meeting because the person would be grateful about their job and love what they get to do. And, and then we would reminisce about the journeys that we've had and all the things that have happened and where they used to be and where they are today. And so it would be some of my favorite times because I'd get to just sit down with people and have a conversation that in the day to day hustle and bustle of trying to do the job, we just didn't get to do what we would do at the end of the year. And so, yeah, it's one of the many ways we. I don't know. This grace is not embedded into our
- [14:59]
B
corporate systems, but it can be and it should be. And you are allowing it to happen, Scott. That's what's so precious to me. Because, you know, you work every day. Not anymore. You used to, you used to work every day in an environment you survive because of competition. You have to, you have to compete. But your team, your teams are learning that they are contributing to the success of the business. And, and, and again, as I, as I think about this subject, my maturity. Wait a minute. What does this have to do with my maturity? Oh, I get it. My maturity is not to pursue my position, but when I have a position, the opportunity of my position is to honor those under my position. Every biblical position, Scott, the purpose of the position is for the benefit of those that are influenced by that position. Every biblical position. Whether that's boss.
- [16:09]
A
Yeah. You think about Paul and Priscilla and Timothy and All of these people that he influenced and became leaders.
- [16:19]
B
Exactly.
- [16:20]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:21]
B
And so it's like as we spend this time on this broad subject of maturing, I said something a couple weeks ago and it fits here. I think, what if maturing was not about what do I do next? But what if maturing was about what truth do I trust next? Because when I trust truth and act upon it, God. God matures me. And the evidence of my maturing, I will always live for the benefit of others. That's what we're trying to communicate through this whole process, even when it comes to positions.
- [17:02]
A
Yeah. And it's interesting. In my journey, that's what's happened. And I. I don't know that I intentionally set out to have that happen. I just was on this journey and discovering God's grace and discovering that maybe he really is inside of me and maybe I can really begin to trust that. And maybe I. And that led me to then beginning to believe in people differently and maybe God can be in them too. And what if he's helping all of us together? And so then all of a sudden, yeah, I am. I am getting to see others benefit greatly through what we're doing. And it is the best thing ever. It's so. It is so satisfying.
- [17:47]
B
Good for you, Scott. I love that last part. It's satisfying, isn't it? Interesting. Scott, I know you well enough to say nothing is more fulfilling to you than to see those you influence succeed. Isn't that beautiful? I thank God for that, brother. I just thank God that we can talk about this lesson in real time with lessons that we ourselves are experiencing. Thank you, Father. Thank you.
- [18:17]
A
Yeah, thank you. We're going to keep hitting this diamond of influence and grace and how God loves us and believes in us in every which way that we can think of. And so we hope you continue to listen. Hope you'll continue to join. Please hit the like the subscribe. Please share our stuff. We'd love to have more and more people hear this message. I really think God's doing this all over the place in all kinds of different groups and settings. And so we just want to see this become a movement. And we love that you're here. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week on Living Influence. Thanks again for listening to Living Influence. We appreciate you. We'd love it if you'd go to livinginfluence.com, contact us and send us an email. We'd love to know what you're thinking. See you next week.