← Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
E681 - Lisa Cheek - Twenty-five year career editing feature films and TV, The Big Day
00:31:07
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- [00:01]
A
Well, some of the feedback as you were asking, feedback. What I'd come sit, Cinderella, sit. Was that the film felt very, I mean, the book felt very cinematic. People felt that they were there on location with me and that, you know, I gave you the wide shot, I gave you the medium shot, I gave you the close up. Right. You know, I could move the camera throughout the room and the scene and tell you exactly what was going on to make that scene happen.
- [00:31]
B
Everybody, welcome back to Living the Next Chapter. We're going to get a little cheeky today, which is fun. Lisa's here and we're going to be talking about all things pink hair, television commercials, writing a lot of great stuff. I'm really excited to have Lisa on the show. She's just full of life and fun and she has her drink there with her sitting in the coolest chair ever. If you want to see a version of it, go to our website link in the show notes. But Lisa Cheek is here and I'm so excited to have her on the show. Lisa, welcome to Living the Next Chapter. I'm glad to have you here.
- [01:04]
A
Thanks for inviting me. I'm super excited.
- [01:07]
B
Come on. Right?
- [01:08]
A
Yeah. I love the fact that you called me cheeky. I just want to say all my friends call me cheeky. So I love that you're right in there. You know what to do.
- [01:15]
B
There you go. I'm in with the friends. I love it. That's good. Lisa, where are you in this big world of ours?
- [01:22]
A
I'm in Los Angeles, California. I've lived here for about 35 years. It's become home. Yeah, I live in the Valley. I'm a Valley girl.
- [01:30]
B
Okay, There you go. Oh, good. Do you have the Valley girl speak?
- [01:35]
A
I don't think so. I don't think so. But yes, I. I understand. It is.
- [01:40]
B
Yeah, I like it. Where were you before that? Where did you move from to come to California?
- [01:48]
A
I lived all over the place, but my family's from North Carolina, so I have family there. But I moved around a lot. I lived in, you know, I was born in Oakland, but I didn't move back here until I was about 28 years old, so.
- [02:01]
B
All right. You've had a very interesting career as well. You've done a lot of editing and fixing things and making things look and sound great. Talk a little bit about your career and some of the things you've had the opportunity to do in the past, Lisa.
- [02:17]
A
Well, I was a film editor for 25 years and I got to work a lot in different places. I Worked in New York. I worked in Montreal, San Francisco. I really had a life where I was a nomad for a while and then. But I was always out of LA and then. And that was mostly doing commercials, which I loved doing. It was so fun because it was 30. 30 seconds where I had to get your attention. Now television's different, you know, but back in the day, you know, I had 30 seconds where it was like, look at me, look at me. Hi. I got something to sell. Buy this product. And I loved it because I had 30 seconds to tell a story. You know, it was just. I needed to get my point across. And it usually involved people, other people, an advertising agency. There was a director, you know, that would come into my room, so it wasn't as lonesome. I did promos before that for television stations, and I wrote, edited, and produced everything by myself there. And that was very lonely. A very lonely life in a dark room by myself.
- [03:27]
B
Okay, I'm gonna ask you this, and I don't know what you're gonna say, but do you take requests? Like, can I put out a book request from you? Because there's something I need from you.
- [03:37]
A
Can I request. Is this. Am I a DJ now, Noelle?
- [03:41]
B
See? Yeah, that's like. Do you take. Do you take requests? You're right. Yeah. So here's my request. I would love a book. I'll just put it out there and see what happens. But I would love a book from you. 30 seconds to get someone's attention and. Because here's what. Here's why I'm asking. I work with podcasters, and I work with speakers. I work with podcast guests. And I think that's one skill that a lot of people don't have, is how to gain attention, get the room's attention, and get across a message in such a small period of time, and I just see a gap. And I know there's people that would love to learn from your experience because it's natural to you, but supernatural for me. And I just. I would be curious, even if it's an article or on your substack, something that talks about your background, and expand on that a little bit. But how do we capture the room in 30 seconds? I would love to learn that from you.
- [04:47]
A
Well, some of it's obnoxious. Some of it's like, here, look at me, look at me, look at me. Right? And it's loud music, and it's. It's. You know, it can be that. But, you know, I actually have a friend who's a teacher Also Grant Faulkner and he teaches flash fiction. And it's becoming, I think, more and more a thing. There's also, I think there's a website out where you have to tell your story in 100 words. So I think because we're so inundated with media now, from all different angles, all different walks, like nothing's ever quiet anymore. I think it's becoming both of my. Actually my memoirs are shorter than the average bear because it's just, just what. What I know to do. But writing a, a 30 second book would be probably 30 words, maybe less. It's great, you know, what's his name? Was it Ernest Hemingway did the six word story for sale Baby Shoes never worn?
- [05:55]
B
I know, Come on, right?
- [05:58]
A
It tells a story, doesn't it?
- [06:00]
B
Yeah. In a world where we are inundated by social clips and short this and short that, I whenever I sit down with a podcaster, for example, and ask them to tell me about their show, they go on for 10 minutes about their show and I'm like, you lost me. Like you lost me. Like I'm already on to something else in my brain. We got to get some kind of concise way of like that's a great example from Ernest anyway, but a concise way of doing and explaining what our book is about, what our talk is about, who we are, and also then be. Be able to capture somebody's attention. In such a distracted world that we're in right now, it's really hard to kind of grab somebody between. With the. Between by their ears and go, this is me, this is my book. This is what I'm doing. And this is why you should care. Right. It's a skill that I don't think a lot of people have. And your background, I think would be really great to leverage and to learn from.
- [07:00]
A
I love hearing that. But I will tell you the things I have been learning because having had a career in film editing, I knew nothing really about writing other than reading books. And I've learned recently that at this date, I think it's 2.7 million books come out every year. So on top of all the noise that goes with all the media platforms and all that's going on, when you have that many that are coming out, it's something like five a minute or it's crazy like that the numbers and that only I don't know, it's 0.009, you know, like it's not even 1%, you know, are the. Are the big people. And if you sell a hundred books you are in 20% tile of being sold.
- [07:51]
B
Wow.
- [07:51]
A
A hundred of booksellers. Yep.
- [07:53]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [07:54]
A
So that's a good, A good thing to know. Most authors don't sell 100 books.
- [07:59]
B
Okay.
- [07:59]
A
If you're looking, if that's the 20%, what's the other 80% selling?
- [08:03]
B
So if you listen to a podcast before you started writing the way you are now and doing your own thing, what would have been helpful for you to hear from an author further down the road before you started? If you were pressing play on this podcast, for example, and an author speaking, what would have been some helpful words of advice or encouragement that you would have hoped to hear when you first started?
- [08:27]
A
Well, you know, I kept hearing that publishers wanted to see platforms. You know, they wanted to see you had social media. Excuse me. But I think what they're finding out now is you can have. I think it was Billy with some. Some famous celebrity who, you know, had 100 million followers or something crazy. And they didn't even sell 30,000 books. Right. So like when a publisher is banking on the fact that just because they're following you doesn't mean they want to read your book. Right, right. So that I found very interesting. I think what's the most important thing to do is to build a community, whatever that looks like outside of your writing. And mine have certainly been with other writers. But, you know, whether it's your church, whether it's what other interests that you have that, you know, I love to dance. I used to have a big community of dancers, you know, that were my friends. But I think that's the most important thing. And you know, with memoir, you know, the one good thing about writing memoir is that you are an expert on your own life.
- [09:39]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [09:40]
A
You may not be an expert on anything else, but you are an expert on your own life.
- [09:45]
B
The one thing too, when I talk to authors and creative people, is I encourage them to build in public. Right. So if you are starting a new project, a new book, to not hide that from the world while you're creating it, and then all of a sudden show up with this book and go, tada. I wrote a book and it was like, I didn't know you were writing a book. You're an author. Exactly that kind of like if you build in public and bring people along with you, then when it comes time to talk about the book, they've watched you through the hard times and the good times, and they've supported you as you've shared the journey of writing or creating what you're creating, and they're ready to support you at the end, at the finish line.
- [10:25]
A
Exactly.
- [10:25]
B
You want somebody there waiting for you, right?
- [10:27]
A
Yep.
- [10:28]
B
Right. When there's a race and nobody knows there's a race, there's no one there to celebrate at the finish line because nobody knew there was a race, they're like, what? Right. But you tell me there's a race and you take me along on the journey, I will be there to meet you at the finish line.
- [10:41]
A
It's so true. I think a lot of people are afraid they'll never finish, so they don't tell anybody anything. But I did have an author tell me, because I was at a writers conference in Kauai, which I'm actually going to next week for a week to study under a couple of really famous authors. And one of the authors said to me, lisa, you're so good at getting out there, and you have met all these people before your book came out. And I said, well, I love being here. There's nothing better to me than to be in a class and stimulating my brain and surrounding myself by the people who do what I want to do. To me, that's super exciting. And I'm not a person who doesn't feel like there's not enough. I feel like there's more than enough to go around for everybody. And I'm here to share and help you. And if you can help me in any way, that's great. If you can't, I've just enjoyed meeting you, and I'm happy that you're along for the ride. So. So I would say get, you know, get into a class. Start learning about where the retreats are. Learn, you know, go to be where people are doing what you want to do. Throw yourself in the middle of it.
- [11:53]
B
If you write like sci fi, then maybe go to a Comic Con where everybody's dressed up in all their costumes and be part of the community. Like, if you're a business person and you're writing a business book, then be around business people.
- [12:05]
A
Exactly right.
- [12:07]
B
You're writing a parenting book, then you should be at one of those parenting conferences or conventions or shows and bumping shoulders with people. Like, be where your audience is as well. Yeah, that's. It's hard to do as authors because a lot of the authors I talk to are kind of insulated and private and sometimes not outgoing because they like to write. They don't want to be in front of people. But anytime you can be in front of people and share your journey, I think it Just brings people along with you and builds that community.
- [12:35]
A
I agree, and I love it. Like, I've only been. Well, I started a book 20 years ago, but what actually wound up, you know, getting published was something completely different. But I, you know, started acquiring people, you know, putting myself around and then a good. Right when, you know, Covid happened. Right when they first started opening up. I took myself to the first writers conference. There was one in Santa Fe. And I met my editor and my publisher there. And I was terrified because I didn't know anybody. I didn't even know who the speakers were. I knew nothing yet, you know, there were 75 women, and I knew that they were all going to be blonde, so I went really bright pink so I would stand out. And I actually did have people come up and say, you know, I need to know who you are. And I was like, great. It took some of the pressure off of me to. To introduce myself.
- [13:36]
B
That's an amazing little thing to consider. I. I love when people don't blend in. I love when people stand out and make it like people are curious. I want to go talk to that Lisa person over there. What is up with her? Like, you attract people, right?
- [13:54]
A
Exactly.
- [13:55]
B
And however you do that. Yeah. I like the pink hair, though.
- [13:57]
A
I think that's pretty cool. I do. I feel so natural now. I can't imag back to my natural color. This is it. I was born pink.
- [14:04]
B
Wait, that's not your natural color. Wait a minute.
- [14:07]
A
But it feels like it, doesn't it?
- [14:10]
B
I love it. Okay, so, yeah. So for you as an author, listening, build community. Build in public. Be around people that make you better. It takes effort to do all those things, but the results. Right. When it comes to talking about your finished product, you'll have a. An audience waiting to support you. So don't be afraid. Share. Even if you're afraid that you might not finish the book, still keep building in public. People are going to want to follow your journey, so however you do that. But, yeah, I like that. It's good, Lisa. Good advice. All right, let's talk about the. The book. Let's switch gears from an author perspective to a reader perspective because you have more than one thing for us to read. You've got lots over here on your website, and I love your website, by the way. It's great. Can we talk a little bit about. Sit, Cinderella, Sit. Before we jump into another topic, your other book.
- [15:02]
A
Sure.
- [15:02]
B
What is it? Cinderella, Sit. I'm anticipating this has something to do with a dog, but tell me more what is this about?
- [15:11]
A
Says Cinderella sits about four months of my life. When I turned 45, I aged out of commercials. They wanted some young, hip thing to be editing their commercials, and I just wasn't that anymore. So I was really lost and worried, you know, that what was I going to do with the rest of my life, because 45 is young. And I was very disappointed because I loved doing what I did, and I thought I was very good at it. But I wound up having a friend who, again, I had helped along the way, and he kept talking about making the Cinderella movie. And, you know, in Hollywood, everybody's got a project that they're working on, right? But whether they actually get the money to make it, that's another whole thing. And it just coincided right at the right time where I needed a job and his movie got funded. And he said, I need you to come to UNOM and I want you here while we shoot. So I need you here a week before we start shooting, and then you'll be here for three months. And so at that time, I had a little dog who I named Ron Howard, and he went with me everywhere. And I was devastated that I was going to be separated from him, but I did have somebody who looked after him while I was gone. And I took on this film that was shot in Mandarin, a language I don't speak. I lived with the camera crew, 14 men who did not speak a word of English. And I rescued two dogs while I was there. And it was the. I knew it would be the experience of a lifetime. I didn't. I didn't know how hard it was going to be, but it was truly so rewarding. And I had no idea I was going to write a book about it. I just. You know, that was not in my. I went to see a psychic after my dad died, and she. She told me, my dad says that my dad used to read a book every day. And. And she said, so your dad says, heaven has the best library. And I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This woman, she's talking to my dad. My dad's in the room. And she said you'd been on this adventure, and I think you need to write about that first. I know you have several stories you want to tell, but I think you need to write about that first. So I did. I took her advice, and I thought, okay, I'm in. And it took me four years from the time I started it until. Until it came out, maybe five.
- [17:40]
B
Wow.
- [17:40]
A
Yeah.
- [17:41]
B
So Ron Howard for the name of a dog. Come on. You got me with that one.
- [17:45]
A
Isn't it great? I love that he's as. It's funny. I'm just writing an essay right now about it. And, yeah, he had orange creamsicle hair and was the cutest little boy I'd ever seen.
- [17:56]
B
I love it, Opie. I love it. Yeah, that's good. Okay. All right. So that's.
- [18:04]
A
That's it.
- [18:04]
B
Cinderella. Cinderella said, I love that. That book came out in January. January, 2020.
- [18:10]
A
2025. Yep.
- [18:11]
B
Okay. All right. What was the response from readers for this?
- [18:15]
A
Great.
- [18:15]
B
Happy with.
- [18:16]
A
It was my first mem. It was my first book.
- [18:18]
B
Well done. Well done. I love that. I love that. So. So that your first attempt at writing in this form, what do you bring with you from your skill set, from your career into writing? Is there any. Any benefits to your editing background and understanding how that that world works? Does anything transfer over to your personal writing?
- [18:43]
A
I love that you're asking this question. It's so good. I'm trying to write an essay on this, too. I've had people ask, will you write this and tell us what. What I realized is I thought I was done with editing, but writing is all about editing. Writing is, you know, the hardest part for me. Writing is filling a page once there's words on the page. It's all about editing. And you just. That's how many drafts you have. And I love it. I'm sorry. My dog is back here making so much noise. This is Elvis. Bruce Wayne, who's behind me right now.
- [19:18]
B
Of course, Elvis is in the building. Yes. Good.
- [19:21]
A
Don't you love saying that? It's so funny.
- [19:23]
B
I love it. It's good.
- [19:26]
A
I know. I just love.
- [19:27]
B
He's a hound dog, right? Yeah, he is a hound do like a hound dog. Yeah, totally.
- [19:32]
A
So, yeah, I think that's what I have found, is that it's all in the editing. It's all in the details and the, you know, refinery of it. And you just keep polishing and polishing and, you know, so many people get bored with that. But I'm really. I'm. And the more I learn about writing, the more I love doing it. You know, it's the hunt for the right word. It's the hunt for telling a better story. Right. I think I. I knew story structure coming in, having, you know, edited feature films and. And certainly 30 seconds, right, to tell the story, you know, have a happy ending. That's what, you know, everybody wants. Right. So I did have that part down. It was really more about learning how to write A scene and how to tell details, you know, how to make you touch, feel, see, smell.
- [20:27]
B
Right.
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A
Right here. All those wonderful senses.
- [20:30]
B
So a book doesn't come with a visual aspect compared to your editing days, where it's all visual TV movies. So what's different then, like, substantially different from writing on your own in a book format compared to the visual aspect of movies, tv?
- [20:53]
A
Well, some of the feedback as you were asking, feedback while I'd come sit, Cinderella, sit. Was that the film felt very. I mean, the book felt very cinematic. People felt that they were there on location with me and that, you know, I gave you the wide shot, I gave you the medium shot, I gave you the closeup. Right. You know, I could move the camera throughout the room and the scene and tell you exactly what was going on to make that scene happen.
- [21:22]
B
I had one author on who writes screenplays and novels, and one of the things he likes to do is he'll pull the script for a movie, pull it up, and then watch the movie and refer to the script and see to see where things are the same and see where things got changed or different. And he likes to do that as kind of a check and balance. Right. And I thought that was quite interesting. I've never thought of doing that before. To have the document open and watch the movie at the same time and go, huh? It also like seeing how the. How it was created, right?
- [21:56]
A
Yes, it does. But it also depends on what. What script variation you got. Because always, you know, when. When I would order scripts for, you know, because I think it's a great way to learn how to make a movie. But, you know, there were revisions on the set all the time. So if you got the pink or the blue or the yellow sheets or whatever that go in depending on, you know, how many drafts they've had. So it can seem like all of a sudden it's way off if you got a first, you know, a first draft or a second draft, whatever that the director got, and then, you know, it changed a lot there. But, yeah, it's a great way to. To understand how to write a script.
- [22:37]
B
Is it freeing for you as an author to write without having someone look over your shoulder and give you notes how you could do it better?
- [22:44]
A
But, yeah, I want to know, does this. Does this work? Is it funny? Did. Did you get my joke? Do. Do you.
- [22:52]
B
Yeah.
- [22:52]
A
You know, that's one of the things too, that, you know, you get instant feedback on things like, you know, substack media, whatever people. You write something, put it up, and then People tell you what they like about it. With a book, it's. It's. It's, you know, takes a long time to know whether or not it works or not.
- [23:13]
B
Yeah. Yeah. You're. You're. You don't have that person kind of with a bigger picture maybe, of what they envision it to be. But you are. You're. You're. You're everything. You're. You're every part of what you used to do instead of a single focused piece of what you used to do. Right. So.
- [23:31]
A
Right. I'm the set dresser. I write dialogue. I. I'm the wardrobe person. I'm the cameraman. I'm right. I'm all of it. I love it. And to me, that's kind of fun. Right? Although I don't like writing the scripts. I don't know why, but I. I find them, and they are very abbreviated. So you would think I would really like it. Maybe I'll learn to like it somewhere down the line. Who knows?
- [23:53]
B
Okay, let's talk about the big day, because that's coming up, and that's exciting. What are we getting with the big day? Because I got to tell you, I love the COVID I'm, like, drawn to this couple together, and their faces make me kind of go, something's up here, which I love, by the way. Tell us about the idea for the big day. What is this about? And let's get into this. Let's talk about this.
- [24:17]
A
So the big day is about one day of my life. It is when I came back from China. I decided after living with 14 men that I kind of like to live with one of my own. I'd never been married. And so I went dating, and I met a man who I thought, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready to do this with you. At 49, I'm ready to get married. And so it's about my wedding day. And basically it opens with after the ceremony. All my friends have flown in from all over everywhere. We are having our pictures made and all the challenges with that. And, you know, my husband to be are. I think, is at that point, I say, you know, he looks at me because, did you get the judge to sign our marriage certificate before he left? And I said, no. I didn't know anything needed to be signed. And he said, well, if it's not signed, we're not married. So I'm looking at him after I'd spent 25 grand and had all these people here, and I was like, what? We're not married? So basically, I'll give you the quick logline because I'm working on it now since it doesn't come out until late next year. But it's basically when a 49 year old first time bride discovers she's not married during her wedding reception, she decides as she decides. Let's see if I can get this for you. She must decide whether it's time to run while she can or stay for the man that she thought she married. So that's basically it in the long line. So you get to meet all my past disastrous relationships and why I didn't get married until I was 49.
- [26:01]
B
Wow. What a hook.
- [26:04]
A
It's super sweet.
- [26:05]
B
That, that's nice.
- [26:07]
A
It's sweet and it's funny and I will tell you the the COVID is our cake topper. That was the woman made it from a photo of our clothing and what we were, what we looked like, which was super sweet. I did have blonde hair. You see, at one time I was not always pink.
- [26:30]
B
There you go. Let's talk a little bit too about your substack. I love authors that have a substack because it's a great way to get emails and to build community. It's kind of like a social platform. It's got all of those things. But yeah, like how long have you been on substack and are you seeing any traction over there?
- [26:53]
A
You know, I haven't done anything since April, but I was on it, you know, pretty, pretty regularly. But I needed to finish my book in order to write so I, I let it go. But I will be back on it and I it's called One Minute Thoughts from a Pink Head. Again, I don't have time. People send me substacks that are, you know, take 20 minutes out of my day and I'm like, I can't do that. So if I have a good happy thought to share with you, I do it. If I don't, I'm not going to take up your time.
- [27:28]
B
Yeah, good, Excellent. Well, I'm subscribed so I can't wait to see when you come back and post again. I love it.
- [27:37]
A
Thank you. That made me really happy.
- [27:39]
B
Yeah. Well, I want everyone listening to come and subscribe to your sub stack and you'll just flood you with great subscribers and you can even sign up and support Lisa over there as well. That's another whole level. So please think of that. I'll have links for that through Lisa's website for you in the show notes talk about, we talked about the beginning building community and why that's important. Beyond substack, how else you go to bookstores? That's another way. How else are you building community around you as an author and what you're doing? What other things have been working for you, Lisa?
- [28:16]
A
Well, like I said, retreats, classes, conferences, going to bookstores, going to your local book events. I mean, it's. It takes nothing for you to just show up and be in the audience and, you know, and support independent bookstores. They are the ones who are out there supporting us. And I think it's so easy to buy on Amazon. Unfortunately, I think Covid made, you know, we just. That's where our go to is. But you're not going to build community there. You're not going to find your people there. You're going to find your people at your local bookstores where, you know, they're having parties every night.
- [28:57]
B
So everybody get out there and support your authors at the local bookstore. Get out there and do that. Lisa, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for your great conversation today. Really appreciate you having here. Thank you for being here.
- [29:10]
A
No, I had such a great time. I just really need you to know that no one. You are so good at what you do.
- [29:17]
B
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, you are.
- [29:20]
A
And I look forward to listening to more of your podcast.
- [29:23]
B
Great. Well, it's fun having you on. I really appreciate having you here, but, yeah, connecting with great people, it's. It's really fun for me to have time with you. So thank you so much for. For doing this and your patience today. You are a very patient person.
- [29:39]
A
You made my day. You totally made my day, Dave. You did. You started it off so beautifully. I look forward to what else is in store for me.
- [29:50]
B
Hey, thank you so much again for pressing play. As you've heard, great guests on the show, and one thing you didn't hear in this conversation is what? What did you not hear? Think about it for a second. That's right. Not a single solitary commercial for a mattress or a supplement or whatever you call it. No. Why? Because we don't want to break up the conversation with commercials. So the fact that you're still here means that you are a fan of the show, I'm assuming. So if you want to help to keep the podcast going and to make me feel really happy, all I really care about is coffee. Okay. I just got to be honest. I love coffee. I'm drinking one right now. Starting to get cold. I need to warm it up. Helping us with a buy me a coffee link over at living the next chapter.com and also in the show notes. Helps kind of keep the lights on around here. Remember, I'm doing this for free. I. I'm paying for everything. So I would love to have a little coffee donation. You know, even five bucks kind of fills up my cup. And I would love to enjoy a coffee from you. So if you're interested, again, thank you for listening, but you can use our Buy me a coffee link and fill up the cup. Thanks for being here.