← Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
E682 - Ben Schenkman - Author of The Devil You Know Series, Representation and Stories That Include All Voices
00:46:43
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- [00:00]
A
And this is what gets a lot of people about the book is it's very corporate culture. It's very the magic system as introduced. And the first book is fairly light when it comes to the magic. It's kind of like a low magic urban fantasy. You know, this isn't Harry Dresden where we're throwing around fireballs and things. This is effectively supernatural contract law.
- [00:26]
B
Everybody, welcome back to Living the Next Chapter Author podcast. We get to meet amazing people from around the world. I'm so thrilled to have time with these great people and learn from them and get a new book to put on your shelf. And not just on your shelf, but for you to fall in love with as a reader as well. And Ben's here with me today. We're going to be talking about his journey. Lots of great stuff. He's waving at you, which is even more fun. Ben, welcome to Living Next Chapter. Glad to have you here.
- [00:54]
A
Yeah, it is great to be here, Dave. Thanks for having me.
- [00:56]
B
Excellent. Ben, where are you in this big world of ours?
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A
In this big world, I am in a very small town in what I call middle Western Massachusetts. It's called Palmer. It's for anyone who knows Massachusetts. It's like smack between Worcester and Springfield. And if you don't know Massachusetts, that's meaningless to you. Anyway, so I'm in New England, where the leaves are currently trending their way towards a darker shade of brown. But it's really pretty right now.
- [01:25]
B
Yeah. Where I am, it's leaves, leaves, leaves everywhere. So, yeah, it's. It's getting that. That time of year. Right. So for me, that's going to meet a lot of snow where I am. But that means spring is coming, like just after. So everything's good, right? Yeah, yeah.
- [01:43]
A
Just a little bit of snow.
- [01:44]
B
Just a little, tiny little bit. Yeah. This is great. Ben, let's talk about your journey as an author and where you began. Has writing always been something you've been interested in or is it relatively something new for you?
- [01:58]
A
I've always been doing something in kind of in that space. Like in elementary school, I wrote little stories. In high school, I wrote a lot of very goth poetry. And then I was actually working my first job out of college. I had been there for probably about three years, and I had some downtime on my hands and I started writing a book. Like, I had this idea, and the idea came to me of I don't like my job. And what happens if the devil shows up and makes you a job offer? What would you do? And that was Kind of like the seed of the idea for my first book, which is My Boss is the Devil. But that was, you know, a number of years ago. I didn't actually get seriously into writing, like, novels until two years ago. 2023 is when I finally dusted off the manuscript for My Boss Is the Devil, which I had actually finished, like, the first draft of. I finished in 2014.
- [03:13]
B
Wow.
- [03:13]
A
So, like, nine years later, I finally decided there's a lot of really bad books out there, and there's no reason that my book shouldn't be published. You know, I was actually. And I tell the story a fair bit, but it's one that I love. I was on TikTok and I was watching this funny creator. She goes by Atomic Apple Pie, and she reads bad romance prose written by men. Oh, like, reads bits of it, sprays the screen with, like, the water bottle as, like, a, no, you shouldn't have done that kind of way. And so she's reading these passages, and I'm like, these are awful. And, like, I'm not bagging on men writing romance. Men can write perfectly good romance. These, however, deserve to be in the annals of time as awful. And I said to myself, I said, I wrote a book, and it can't possibly be as bad as any of these. And these are published, so why isn't mine published? And that's when I decided that I was not going to even consider trying traditional publishing at that point. That book had languished on the shelf for nine years, and it deserved to see the light of day. And so I figured out stuff publishing after. After that. But that's. That's kind of how I got back back into it. But then, since then, I've been on this roller coaster of sustained activity. You know, My Boss Is the Devil was mostly done when I got back to it early in 2023, but then later in 2023, and then since then. So in the past two years, I wrote the two next books in the series. I wrote a short story that's. That's a prequel to the series. I wrote another book, which is my latest release, which I'm sure we'll talk about. I wrote another book, which is my next release that I'm sure we're going to talk about. I'm currently finishing up the fourth book in the series, and I've recorded and produced two audiobooks for my series. So, like, I've been this whirlwind of activity and. Yeah, so I realized I kind of went off on a tangent there, but that's how I got started. And then I haven't stopped since.
- [05:39]
B
You are all in now. Wow. Okay, audiobooks, your thoughts on these. Is it something that you're going to do for all the things that you do? Do you find a lot of value in audiobooks?
- [05:56]
A
Value is subjective because audiobooks, number one, audiobooks to a certain point are purely about accessibility. There are plenty of people who cannot read written books and screen readers or like text to voice are really, really bad. They're not a good way of consuming writing because they're emotionless. And don't get me started on AI generated audio. That's a non starter. 0 stars will not ever touch. So it's important to me that my books are accessible. For one, my mom can't read written word anymore. She's had a number of neurological issues happen and it was important to me. She was actually one of the earliest readers of My Boss of the Devil. By readers, I mean she was in the emergency room in a hospital for like two days or like more, you know, let's say 36 hours before they actually admitted her into having like a room and a bed. And I sat with her for a good chunk of that. And to pass the time, because we were effectively almost in a hallway, I read her the draft of my book. And so I've kept that with me. And I really, you know, that was a few. That was a number of years ago and it was important to me that she be able to read my books. And because she can't read them, I wanted to read them to her.
- [07:37]
B
Nice.
- [07:38]
A
So at least for this series, I'm committed to producing my own audiobooks. Now because you don't change narrator midstream. That's like a big. A, big no, no. So as this is going to be a four book series, I'm committed to producing at least four audiobooks. I've got two down, two to go. But for my other books, I'm still pursuing that. I'm trying to see whether or not I can get interest in an audiobook publisher to purchase the rights to those, but. But if they don't, I'm going to produce the audiobooks myself.
- [08:15]
B
Yes. Okay. Because that's. I don't know if every author has the skill set to voice their own books. Some of the people I talk to on this show, they're like, there's no way I'm going to do that. So again, I love the accessibility. I think that's really, really important for me personally. I love to have a copy of the book and listen to the book at the same time. Those two elements together. I feel like I'm using more of my senses, and I feel like I'm more. My mind doesn't tend to wander while I'm reading, and it just kind of grounds me to have the printed copy and the audio at the same time. So that's kind of my approach. So I'm a big fan of audiobooks, so I'm glad to hear you're doing that.
- [08:59]
A
Yeah. And. And just for. For your listeners, let's just dispel the. The myth right now. As I'm sure you agree, audiobooks count as reading. I don't know who decided that. Like, I don't know which segment of the Internet decided that they were going to be pedantic enough to say that audiobooks didn't count as reading, but they're wrong. And. And, yeah, let's just. I just wanted to. To put that out there as another nail in the coffin for that misconception. Good.
- [09:30]
B
Yeah. Because none of those people listen to this show, so we're not worried about them.
- [09:33]
A
That's good. Yeah. I mean, clearly, they don't listen to things.
- [09:37]
B
Right. It's a podcast. They're never listening to this either. So. Okay, let's talk then about the story. Was your boss really that bad? Like, is this really kind of a thing, or is this all made up in your mind, or. Come on. What? We got to give us something here.
- [09:57]
A
Okay, so I have to say more than one of my bosses, when they have found out that I wrote a book called My Boss Is the Devil, the first question that they asked was or statement that they made was, I hope this isn't about me. And the answer is, no, it's not about you. I didn't have. I mean, to be fair, I have had bad bosses, but I haven't had any bosses that were literal incarnations of the Devil. And the. The book, it does what it says on the tin. My boss is the Devil. The story is about a young barista in New Haven, Connecticut, getting a chance to change his life by taking a job offer from Lucifer himself. So it is quite literal, as opposed to being, like, a double entendre. The fun thing about the title is that it feels like it's a play on words or a double entendre, but it's actually quite literal.
- [10:55]
B
Okay, so is this a promotion for this person to take this job, or is this a demotion to take this?
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A
Have you ever been a barista?
- [11:03]
B
Well, okay. There you go. Yeah. Okay. I can now you've kind of filled in the blanks for me there. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, yes, you know, that's interesting. Yeah, I guess. I guess the devil would come to, you know, get a coffee here and there and maybe make that connection. So where did the idea come from, then, for you to start this and write this? Like you're like. From personal experiences. You're like, this would make a really good book.
- [11:37]
A
I think the hubris of authors is that we have an idea and we think it's good whether or not the rest of the world is going to enjoy it. So when the thought occurred to me, the whole, like, well, what happens if this guy gets a job offer from the devil? And then what happens after that? And really, I believe in using writing to tackle large topics in accessible ways. My book, at least this first series, my new stuff, is slightly different in this regard. But the series is called the Devil. You know, it's very much a dark comedy. And in the vein of dark comedy, it tackles difficult or large subjects with humor and sarcasm and satire. And the big questions, the reason why I thought this was a good idea. Number one, everyone loves a charismatic devil. And I will say my book existed well before the Lucifer TV show, so it is not in any way inspired by that. I wrote the initial draft of this, like I said, in 2014, and the idea was conceived by before that. So everyone loves a charismatic devil. It was a trope before I touched it. It was a trope before Lucifer touched it. And so I thought that that was a good idea. But then the bigger topics are things like just about ethics and morals and what is good, what is evil, and the constant question of do the ends justify the means? What. What. What if I try to do good with influence that is heretofore thought of as bad? You know, it's the. It's the Nick, the main character, he's not an antihero like traditional antiheroes that do bad things for good reasons. But that's the idea behind Anti heroes, right? Is that, can they do good by doing bad? I don't know. Let's find out. Do they do it enough? Do we balance the scales of the bad that they do compared to the good that bring. So it. It's really, you know, I. I came up with the idea based on this idea of this charismatic devil and the initial scene, which is this not so chance meeting in a graveyard, and it went from there.
- [14:10]
B
Okay.
- [14:11]
A
You know, it's. It's not the reluctant hero trope, but the people who want to summon the devil. Don't get to. And the guy who just tags along to drink their absinthe and, and escape for a little bit catches the attention of the devil. So it's, it's got a lot of, a lot of different things going on with it.
- [14:32]
B
Okay, if I don't want to give anything away that we're not supposed to, but do we, can we talk about this job offer? Like what, what is this person getting out of this deal? I'm thinking it's a deal with the devil, basically is what's happening here. But what, what kind of position are we talking about?
- [14:54]
A
Yeah, so it's not, it's not much of a spoiler. Again, if it happens in like the first third of the book, that's usually pretty fair game. Nick goes. So the, the thing about the offer is that it isn't an all or nothing. So Lucifer wants to take a gamble on Nick and Nick isn't interested in signing his soul away. And for the record, this book starts the kind of mythos of the Devil. You know, where my take on heaven and Hell, you know, hell is just a place and the people who are under the Devil's care are just that. It's not necessarily a place of torment. Is there torment for really bad people? Yes. But is everyone who ends up in hell a bad person? No. And there's this, like, there's a lot of gray area in most of what it is that I write. And so Nick, Nick doesn't want to sign on for this. He thinks this whole thing is dicey. So what Lucifer does to tempt him, because what is the devil if not a tempter? Lucifer takes a gamble and tells Nick that he can basically accept his offer on contingency, do some work for him, use the influence to do a project of his own, and then decide at the end of it whether or not he signs his soul away. And if he doesn't, then he gets to go off with his job training and experience and never think about it again. Otherwise he signs on the dotted line and becomes property of the devil. So the job itself, and this is what gets a lot of people about the book is it's very corporate culture. It's very the magic system as introduced. And the first book is fairly light when it comes to the magic. It's kind of like a low magic urban fantasy. You know, this isn't, this isn't Harry Dresden where we're throwing around fireballs and things. This is effectively supernatural contract law. And Nick is chosen to effectively be an agent, which is like a title, but he is the assistant to the Devil himself. Because the Devil, for whatever reason, has decided to take an interest in this plucky young man.
- [17:29]
B
Okay, so in essence then he goes from making coffee to getting coffee for the Devil.
- [17:38]
A
Yes and no. It's less that than just working under his direction. You know, he's an agent of. But he's not like an admin. There's an admin for the office. His name is Lester. He's delightful. But, but Nick is, is an agent of Lucifer. And his role in being like working for the man himself is to work on specific projects that Lucifer wants him to tackle.
- [18:08]
B
Okay, all right, talk to me about the reader for this because it sounds intriguing and I'm wondering who you're kind of hoping is your ideal reader? Because I want them listening to this to go, I'm in. So kind of talk to me a little bit about who do you have in mind that's going to love reading this book?
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A
So the book and the series in general, because again, like right now it's a three book series is out and I'm wrapping up the fourth one. So it is urban fantasy in that it takes place in an urban setting, New Haven, Connecticut, which is my old stomping grounds. And. But it's, it's, it's been described as not so cozy urban fantasy. So the stakes are lower than perhaps your regular urban fantasy that has more like world ending kind of stakes. The stakes are much more personal and you know, the peril is maybe not as intense as it could be. Though there is some for sure. So my, my target audience is really someone who likes a witty like bantery contemporary fantasy that has some supernatural elements that isn't afraid of tackling, you know, a version of the Christian mythos. So I'm, I'm Jewish myself, so I'm definitely irreverent when it comes to, to my portrayal of the Christian mythos. So yeah, it's people who like a thought provoking, slightly cozy, somewhat existential read that is entertaining, full of relatable characters and witty banter. There's also a cat. So, you know, everyone loves a cat.
- [20:05]
B
You gotta have a cat. On your website. I'm looking at the covers of the books and stuff. Talk a little bit about the imagery that you have around the books as well, because I'm feeling this is all done together. Like you have a plan. Looks like from, from all the covers, from everything you're working on. Talk a little bit about what we're seeing as well, when we get. Grab a copy of your books.
- [20:28]
A
I do. And I do. I love my covers. All of my covers are done by this company called Get Covers.
- [20:35]
B
Okay.
- [20:36]
A
It's for any independent authors out there if you're not checking them out. Get Covers is one of the most high quality, affordable ways to get covers for your book. I am not sponsored or affiliated with them in any way. I've just done business with them enough. And so the imagery in the first book, you've got a silhouette of a guy in a suit with a red tie, that being are Nick. And then you've got the devil behind him, which, ironically, was pointed out to me later, and I didn't really think about it too much. He looks a little bit like Batman from the original animated Batman series. And I can't unsee that now.
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B
Oh, no. Yeah, okay.
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A
Oh, no, it's okay. But it's a great image. So we've got the shadowy devil with his hands on Nick's shoulders with, like, a pentagram behind them. But then you've got, like, little coffee icons floating around. Coffee is a big part of this book. If you don't like coffee, you may struggle a little bit because it's definitely an aesthetic with the book.
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B
Okay, good.
- [21:44]
A
I myself am a huge coffee fiend. So that's the first cover. So we got Nick and the devil. That's the story of this book. Then the second book. And the first book is red. The cover's red. Then the second book, the cover's green. For anyone who knows, it's effectively millennial green velvet couch green. That's, like, what that color is.
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B
Yeah, I can see that.
- [22:06]
A
And we've got two silhouettes. We've got Nick with the devil still behind him. And then we have a woman. That woman is in the first book as a supporting character. That's the goth witch named Amy. Amy, who is. There's a romantic subplot in the first book that involves Amy. It's not a romance. There's no. There's. There's nothing highly suggestive about the book. It's not that kind of book. But there's a. There's a sweet little romantic subplot. And then that stuff continues in the second book. And Amy figures more prominently in book two, becoming more of a secondary main character. And then behind Amy, we see a different figure with a halo. And so in book two, you could guess from the COVID that we introduced God.
- [22:53]
B
Mm.
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A
God is not who you would expect them to be. I will say, like, the first book is pretty Normative when it comes to things. The second book and onward, there's a really good amount of queer representation.
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B
Oh, good.
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A
So, you know, there's not. So in book one, the Lester, the admin for the devil is gay. That's. That's obvious. That's fine. But he's not like a big character. I also wrote this a long time ago, before I was as desirous of putting representation in my books. Book two, we've got non binary representation as well as trans representation and gay representation, because there's another character who shows up in book two for that. There's more romantic subplot that has nothing to do with Nick and Amy. So that's just a different one. I can't say much about it because that's spoilery. And then we've got book three, which is gold or yellow, but it's a goldy kind of yellow. And we've got Nick with the devil, we've got Amy with God, and then we've got a third male figure. And I wonder who that is. And you will have met them at some point in the first two books, and I won't tell you more about that.
- [24:15]
B
Okay.
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A
But behind both God and the devil is another silhouette representing. I mean, it's obvious from the silhouette, I think, but it's a Hindu deity. And so the third book, which is called Too Many Gods in the Kitchen, is where we start getting outside of like the Abrahamic God and the devil mythos, and we start branching out and that this world doesn't just have the God and the devil, it also has other personified deities. In book three, we introduce. We introduce two more total pantheons. And so that's a whole different story. The books two and three start and finish a redemption arc. There's a lot going on. And the same kind of representation is included in book 3.
- [25:06]
B
Without giving too much away, what's the color of book four then? Did you have a color?
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A
Oh, no, no. I'll tell you about book four.
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B
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
- [25:15]
A
So book four, the current title for book four is A Little Death Among Friends.
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B
Good.
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A
So you can guess, Dave, guess what? What color the fourth book is.
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B
When I first looked at all these, I thought we were going blue, because that's just kind of. Is it?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Come on.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Okay, good. All right.
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A
I am nothing if not consistent.
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B
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm like, it's got to be blue, so. Or purple.
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A
And I.
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B
One of the two.
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A
I can't tell you too much about. Like, I Don't want to reveal the COVID though, for your listeners. I will. I. I can. I don't know. It's. It's. It's a great cover. I love it for you. For your listeners, there are no gods on the COVID There are the three figures from book three, and behind them, with the. The name, a little death among friends, stands the Grim Reaper. Because book four is about death. Book four is an interesting journey for me. I. Let's. Let's get very real for a second because I'm sure everyone loves that when authors go totally off script. I am terrified of the concept of death. Just like, as a person, like, existential dread is a common occurrence in my life. You know, the. The curse of mankind is the knowledge that we too will die at some point. And so book four, for whatever reason I knew, I was like, if I read a fourth book, it's going to be about death. So I started writing a fourth book. It was going to be about death. Not necessarily like, specifically Christian death, but, like, there's a lot. Let's just say we continue the theme that there's a lot going on with death, but I get to explore a lot of the really uncomfortable pieces of my own existential dread when it comes to the topic in this book. So there's still humor, there's still wit, there's still banter. There's also some really terrible things that happen, and I can't tell you anything about that, but it's gonna be a ride. I have one. I have an alpha reader that is pre alpha. She reads chapters as I write them because we have that kind of relationship, and I am her. I'm her comfort read. So she likes to be involved as early as possible in the process. And frankly, it's good for me too, because I get pretty consistent feedback as I go. And let's just say the feedback so far is good.
- [28:00]
B
Okay, thank you for sharing that. Because again, you're right. Not everybody's, like, willing and open to kind of put out something that's still in the oven, right? It's still working on this. Right? So I appreciate that. That's great. There's a. When I listen to you talk about your books, there's a lot of pride on your face. Like, you. You love. You love writing and you love these stories, right? Like, why did you go down this path, though? Like, you could have gone anywhere with your writing. Why is this so important for you? The representation of your characters and who they are and how they show up in this world, why that direction why? The spiritual aspect of your conversation and what you're writing. You seem to be playing in multiple things at the same time. And I'm trying to figure out why all these things matter to you so much. Can you kind of unpack that for us?
- [28:57]
A
I can try more than anything. So let's start a little further back. Why did I decide to publish? Because this is actually something that I talk about a fair bit. When people talk about whether they're succeeding or failing at being an author, and especially as an independent author. I published my books because I wanted my stories to be experienced by other people. It's not just because I want them to enjoy it and tell me that they enjoy it because, like, the dopamine from that is, like, delicious. That's great. I'm always happy to hear from readers that they're enjoying my books. I love seeing reviews of people who found something interesting, intriguing, funny, whatever. So, like, that's all beautiful. I love that there's a part of me that. That hungers for that. But that's not strictly why I tell the stories. I tell the stories because I feel like they need to be told. But I don't want to tell stories that aren't real. I want my characters to be real people. I want them to be relatable. I want them to feel like someone that, you know, I want them to feel like someone who you identify with, someone you could be. And it's important to me, you know, there's. There's a lot of diversity in my life. You know, I'm. I'm Jewish, I'm at least nominally queer. I'm neurodivergent. My partner's non binary. My eldest son is trans. I have gay and lesbian friends. I have, you know, people from all walks of life, all ethnicities. And it's important to me that. That my. My world be. Be diverse like the people that are in it. And I mean that in that. I do a lot of really casual representation. In my new book, Let Sleeping Gods Lie, which is not related to the first series, there's a security guard that shows up for a scene. He's literally there for like one page. And he makes an offhand comment about his husband. So he's just canonically and casually gay, because that's just how people are. People just are. And there's no reason to, like, I don't make a big deal out of it, you know, I'm not like, smacking the reader in the face with it. It's just people are who they are and so some of my characters are going to, you know, be from other countries. Some of them are going to be black or brown or, you know, they're going to have disabilities or they're going to be different gender identities, you know, so it's important to me that those things are part of it. But I also, I just love. I love writing these stories and frankly, the dialogue, like, I like letting these characters express themselves through the dialogue that flows out of my hands into the keyboard. You. You know, so I just, I. I have a lot of pride about what it is that I write because it's all, to an extent, like, it's all. It's all very fake, but it's all very real.
- [32:32]
B
Yeah. It's nice for your readers to see themselves in your stories as well. Right. That's. That's something maybe we. We could do more of as authors, is be more representative in our character choices and the stories and, and all of that, because if we only go down one traditional path in how we create our characters, we're missing out on reaching an audience that maybe is underrepresented. Right. So I love that you're doing that and that you're. You're creating that space for people because like I said, there's just. I think that's a huge opportunity for people who just don't. Like I said, they don't see themselves in the traditional stories that they read and they're like, missed opportunity here. Right. So. And that it's normal. These aren't. These are normal people living their normal lives and they're showing up in your stories. I love that. I think that's really good.
- [33:35]
A
Thanks, Dave. That's interesting just. Just to follow on, because you also asked, like, why the spirituality stuff? And that's because I wanted to make it more real. It's like, it's all kind of part of a theme. But I like connecting my magic systems to existing mythology or mythos or spirituality because I feel like it grounds the magic in a way that makes it more real. There's a sub genre of contemporary fantasy called magical realism. And that's kind of what that's about, is the, like, grounding the magic in some way to make it more realistic. So, you know, if magic has to follow the laws of physics or, you know, magic follows a specific spiritual path, it really depends on what it is. So, for example, my new book, Let Sleep and God Lie, is an entirely different magic system from the first series because it's its own series starter and it's focused on a more Animistic take where the world itself and everything in it possesses a certain magical or spiritual energy that certain people can tap into. And so the magic is based on that. But it's also very much a anti capitalist, anti colonial, you know, pro environment conservation theme. Just to touch real quick on the other thing, there's a slippery slope for authors in that we want to be representative, we want to represent characters for marginalized communities without co opting marginalized voices. And that's the slippery slope. And so the new book features a main character that he himself is not indigenous because he's not an indigenous person. Because I am not an indigenous person. It's not a lens that I'm going to write from because I feel like that's co opting a marginalized voice.
- [35:43]
B
Okay.
- [35:44]
A
But there's a supporting character who is a member of a local tribe in the area where the book takes place. Because I want to represent part of that culture and part of that mythology and folklore without trying to live in the skin of a person that I am not.
- [36:05]
B
Yeah.
- [36:06]
A
So it's representation without trying to co opt a marginalized voice. And so like there's different ways that we, we can do that. And I did that through having an important supporting character who is, is part of this character's connection to that folklore and whatnot. It's tough though, because I've seen multiple authors online talk about how they've had their books very harshly reviewed or they can't find an audience because of their main character who is X, Y, Z, who is not, not. They don't represent the culture that they're writing from. And that's always going to be a tough sell. You know, if you're writing a main character from a marginalized perspective that you yourself are not a part of, then you're going to inevitably get criticism for it. And I think authors just need to accept the. That that if you're going to go that route, that's what you're signing on for that. Or just avoid that and do it a different way to include marginalized voices without co opting their experience.
- [37:20]
B
Okay. All right. Yeah. Again, as I'm listening to you, there's just. You just seem to be playing in some pretty interesting spaces that don't seem to be connected. It's like you're the connection for, for this element, this element and this element. You as the author are the ones bringing these together, which not. They don't normally play together really well. Right. You just seem to be the gel kind of bringing all these different Areas together, which I really enjoy. I think that's quite unique.
- [37:52]
A
Well, thank you. I'm glad you enjoy it and I'm glad that it seems to work so.
- [37:56]
B
Right. Okay. For. For the readers then. Let's talk timelines again. So we have the first three books are available now, is that correct?
- [38:08]
A
Yes. As a record, the first three books of the Devil you know are available. All of them are available on Kindle Unlimited. Kindle Unlimited, ebook, paperback, and hardcover. The first two books in that series are available widely as audiobooks. So that's what's currently available. I am going to be starting production of the third audiobook this month, November.
- [38:37]
B
And.
- [38:38]
A
Yeah, so. And then as far as what else is available, the first book in my new series, which is that more animist conservationist take on things called Let Sleeping Gods Lie, is available now in ebook, Kindle Unlimited and paperback. And the rest of that is going to be coming later.
- [39:01]
B
Okay, time frame for later? Do you have any idea?
- [39:04]
A
So book four, I would expect to be out in the next few months. I have another book that is entirely based, so it's another nother series or like standalone, but it's going to have a cycle around it, not necessarily continuing with the same character. And that wasn't one is entirely a new magic system based on Jewish magic and mysticism.
- [39:30]
B
Okay.
- [39:31]
A
So like by the book, the Old Testament, the Talmud, the Torah, it has more demons in it than you can like shake a stick at. And most people aren't aware of the demonology and magic inherent in that religion. And being Jewish myself, I get to write a book from the perspective of a Jewish protagonist whose magic is real. So that's going to be exciting. I expect. That's like in the can, proofed, formatted, ready to go. I'm probably going to start advanced review copies in a month. Okay. So keep an eye out for that. Yeah. If you find me on my website and you sign up for my newsletter or you sign up to be an advanced reader for my work, you'll get the free short story prequel called the Thief of Joy, which is a prequel about how Nick got in the Devil's crosshairs in the first place. And you'll also be notified when advanced review campaigns for my new book start. So you can sign up for that if you're interested in reading the book early in exchange for an honest review on release day.
- [40:46]
B
I love how organized you are and that's. It's amazing. I love the Street Team idea as well to have your support built in advance for the Launches of your books. That's super smart.
- [40:57]
A
It's hard. Getting a street team is hard. I don't think. I can't even say that I have a proper one, but I have a box on my signup list that you can certainly check.
- [41:06]
B
Okay, so as you listen to this, go to Ben's page and sign up. Get in there. Come on. You can be a part of the street team. You can help in. So there's people here listening. They can do this. So, yeah, you can do it.
- [41:17]
A
I believe in you.
- [41:18]
B
Right? Yeah, we can. We can boldly ask for that. That's not a problem. What do we get when we sign up for the newsletter?
- [41:25]
A
You get the free prequel, the Thief of Joy, which is like 0.5 of my boss of the Devil, you know? And guess what color the COVID is. Oh, no.
- [41:37]
B
Well, you and the colors. Well, it's not one of the ones we've talked about, so it's another one.
- [41:42]
A
It's a different color, or let's say it technically is a combination of colors. Imagine the start of colors.
- [41:52]
B
The start of colors. That sounds like a book title right there.
- [41:55]
A
It could be.
- [41:57]
B
Well, I was originally going to go purple, but that's probably not right. So. No, I'm lost. What do you got?
- [42:02]
A
It's. It's white.
- [42:04]
B
Okay.
- [42:04]
A
It's white. It's a white cover with just black silhouettes on it.
- [42:08]
B
Okay, that sounds. That's a departure for you, right?
- [42:13]
A
It's. It's the start of things.
- [42:15]
B
Okay.
- [42:15]
A
It's. Imagine you took the prequel and then you put it through a prism. You would get the other colors of the books.
- [42:22]
B
I see what you're doing there. Okay. All right. So you're gonna keep writing until you run out of colors.
- [42:27]
A
Basically, I could. So a little Death among Friends is the last story in the current arc. I have another idea for a three book series that involves some of the characters from the existing series, but it's effectively centered around a large event that happens and then what happens to each of those three characters? So whereas. So book one has one POV, book two has two POVs, and book three and four have three POVs each. So by the third book, you're introduced to three POVs, and that's what you're used to. The new thing. I'm expecting each book to be a standalone for each of those characters that has a POV in books three and four.
- [43:15]
B
Okay.
- [43:16]
A
So, yeah, maybe I'll have to go with the next colors in the rainbow after that.
- [43:21]
B
That's good. Good. When you Line them all up on your shelf. When you buy the whole list, it's going to be a very colorful books on your shelf there. I like that.
- [43:30]
A
I've heard they're very attractive on the shelf. I'm not saying that you should pick up a set, but everyone should pick up a set.
- [43:36]
B
Boldly ask, Ben. Boldly ask. So people will come and do that. I like it. The name of your website as well, Ben.
- [43:42]
A
Yeah, my website is BenShankman.com, so B E N S C-H-E-N-K-M-N.com.
- [43:51]
B
good.
- [43:53]
A
And then if you want, you can reach out to me also because I love hearing from readers, even if it's just to say hi and tell me that you like the book. If you hated the book, I'm sorry, you don't have to reach out to me at that point.
- [44:06]
B
There you go. Yeah. And then go ahead and buy them all. And when you buy these books, everyone, as you're listening, please leave a great review. Ben would love to hear your thoughts about what you're reading, what you loved, the story, the characters be, be. Don't just write great book like that's fine, but actually put some work in here. Ben's given us all these great words as he's written for us. We can do our least and give a great review back for Ben. That also brings other people into Ben's world as well. As they read your thoughts, they're like, yeah, this sounds like a book for me. So I love that. Ben's also got links to his socials and everything as well through the website. So you can find everything you need over at Ben's website, which is in the show notes. As always, Ben, I need to have you come back for more talks about colors and all these other things. So as you keep working and as you keep writing, please keep me in mind. Love to have you back in the future as well.
- [45:01]
A
Oh, as soon as I have a release date for something new, I will, I will book you. Dave, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll talk again.
- [45:07]
B
I love it. I love it. Everyone, all information again in the show notes for Ben. Please don't. Not if, but when you buy Ben's book. Those reviews are really important and make sure you tell somebody about this book and this great author. Ben, thank you so much for doing this. Appreciate it.
- [45:21]
A
Yeah, thanks, Dave. Great to be here.
- [45:27]
B
Hey, thank you so much again for pressing play. As you've heard, great guests on the show and one thing you didn't hear in this conversation is what? What did you not hear? Think about it for a second. That's right. Not a single solitary commercial for a mattress or a supplement or whatever you call it. No. Why? Because we don't want to break up the conversation with commercials. So the fact that you're still here means that you are a fan of the show, I'm assuming. So if you want to help to keep the podcast going and to make me feel really happy, all I really care about is coffee. Okay. I just gotta be honest. I love coffee. I'm drinking one right now. Starting to get cold. I need to warm it up. Helping us with our Buy me a coffee link over@livingthenextchapter.com and also in the show notes helps kind of keep the lights on around here. Remember, I'm doing this for free. I. I'm paying for everything, so I would love to have a little coffee. Don't donation even five bucks kind of fills up my cup. And I would love to enjoy a coffee from you. So if you're interested, again, thank you for listening, but you can use our Buy me a coffee link and fill up the cup. Thanks for being here.