← Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
E687 - Carter Vance - A story of living, loving and growing up on Canada's Parliament Hill
00:41:44
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- [00:01]
A
I think, I hope smaller animals connects with people and makes them recognize something of themselves in the characters that are in there, whether they're a younger person, whether they're an older person. Maybe it's a younger person right now going through some of the same challenges about identity formation, about deciding what they want to do with their life, about the relationships that they have. I hope it helps them. I hope it connects with them. Whether it's an older person who maybe at an earlier point in their life had those experiences, I hope it connects with them, and I hope that they build more of an understanding of how important parts of our country work and the people that. That really make it. That make it work, that don't really get the headlines a lot of the time.
- [00:56]
B
Everybody, welcome back to Living the Next Chapter. It's the author podcast, where I get to meet people from around the world. Now, I'm a Canadian, and anytime I can talk to somebody from my own country, it's a great bonus because we talk to people around the world. So Canadian authors have a special place in my heart. And I'm excited to have Carter here on the show today. We're talking about his journey. He's got an interesting background. He's done some very interesting things in his past as well, which I want to touch on a little bit for sure. And he's got stories to tell you as a reader as well, so you found the right person to listen to and check out. Carter Vance is here. Carter, welcome to the podcast. Glad to have you on the show.
- [01:33]
A
Thanks so much, Dave. It's great, great to be here and great to be talking with a fellow Canadian and. And talking about the. The book and my journey as a writer. And happy to have you to be on here.
- [01:44]
B
Excellent. Great, Carter. So I already know the answer to this question, but my audience doesn't. Where are you in this big world of ours?
- [01:51]
A
So right now I'm in the Ottawa area, technically Gatineau, on the other side of the river here, as we say, but in the Ottawa area. I'm originally from Coburg, Ontario, if anybody knows happens to know where that is. I might be a little bit surprised, but it's a fairly small town on the. On the way to Toronto, between Toronto and Kingston. If anybody's ever been driving on the 401, there's a big Apple near there. So that's. That's where Coburg is, roughly speaking. It has a beach. People like coming there in the summer to go to the beach.
- [02:22]
B
So Canada has its own version of the Big Apple?
- [02:25]
A
Yeah, that. We always say that's the real Big Apple.
- [02:27]
B
The real Big Apple.
- [02:28]
A
It's a literal big. If anyone doesn't know it's a literal Big Apple on the side of the highway it's made out of, it's like a metal sculpted sculpture, I guess. Interestingly enough, my uncle actually worked on welding it together, but that's a whole other story.
- [02:43]
B
Come on. Really?
- [02:44]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [02:45]
B
Wow. Well, that's really interesting. So New York can't really claim it's the only Big Apple because we have our own, right?
- [02:51]
A
We have our own. Exactly.
- [02:52]
B
There you go. I like it. Awesome. So everyone head over to Coburg and just say, hey, anybody here know Carter? And they'll be like, oh, we know Carter. Yeah. So it's great. Awesome. How did you get into writing, Carter? Like, you have a very interesting background, but specifically writing, how did you end up here?
- [03:10]
A
Yeah, so, I mean, as far as the writing in itself goes, you know, it's interesting. Talking about being from Kobo, it was really. I was really encouraged to do writing by a teacher of mine in high school who really noticed that, you know, I had some, I guess, aptitude for it. I liked writing things when we did creative writing exercises in her class and stuff like that. And what happened was some people in Coburg, you know, it's a fairly small town, but it has a bit of an artistic scene in it. And there were some people that were trying to get together to do, like, poetry or just general readings at, like, a cafe that was opening in town. They wanted to have that, to kind of draw people in. My teacher knew the people that owned the cafe, so then basically decided to, you know, said, hey, I think this would be interesting for you. Why don't you go ahead and, you know, talk to them and try to read some of your stuff there. And that's when I started doing that. And that was really. So that was really kind of got me on the trade to doing it. And I did some other things in high school. Like I wrote, wrote and directed a play with a friend of mine when I was in high school. And then I went off to university and interestingly, like, I kind of fell off of the creative writing. Like, obviously in university you're writing. You writing papers for your classes and that type of stuff. But the creative writing, I kind of fell off of it for a while. And then I was living in Ottawa to go to university and there was a poetry magazine called Oak Poetry Magazine, which is one of the bigger national ones in the Ottawa area. And I Submitted some. I started. I decided, okay, I want to start doing some writing. And I submitted some stuff to them and they, you know, it's a fairly prestigious publication, I guess, and they kind of said. They gave me a letter which was basically, you know, we can't, like, we don't think this is quite good enough to publish, but we have a program for people who, like, show promise younger writers, where we kind of link you and do a mentorship exercise with somebody that has been published in our magazine before. Would you be interested in that? And then I said, yeah, like, that sounds really good. And that's. From there, I really started getting, you know, more publications. I started getting more things into. Into different magazines and stuff like that. Mainly poetry at first, but then moved into doing short stories, stuff like that. And then, you know, we'll talk about later with the novel. But it kind of just evolved from there from. From doing that. So. But in terms of the origin point of it, it really was just having that encouragement from, from that teacher and, and also, like, other people around me. And in high school, and I, you know, in high school, I was kind of friends with a lot of the. The OD kind of kids. So, you know, we. We had like our own little quote, unquote, it's like a magazine or newspaper that we did at the school as like an extracurricular activity. So that was also something we did. So there was always that kind of element to things.
- [06:08]
B
Okay, so the magazine paired you up with somebody who has already been published to give you a little bit more help and support. When you look back at it, what were some of the gaps that the magazine identified for you that you needed help with, and how did that person help you?
- [06:22]
A
I think they helped me in a couple ways. And I think the number one was just like, thinking about what your intended audience is and, like, who you're pitching at. And I think that that's something that a lot of writers like when you're. When you start out writing, in a lot of cases, at least for me, you're kind of like writing for yourself because you're trying to express something or you're trying to just like, make sense of something. I guess, like, definitely when I was in high school, a lot of what the writing I did was kind of more about that. But I think what. What they helped me with was kind of thinking about, like, what is the impact that you're having on your audience and what do you really want to convey with what you're writing? So that was part of it I think they also, just in terms of like poetry writing at that time really kind of helped me think more about, like, form to things like what? And really being intentional about every word that you're using. Really being intentional about the way you put spaces, the way you put line breaks, that type of thing to really kind of. And even like the way you. Which is not something a lot of people would think about, but the way you format things on the page. Like, and how. And like I was doing something, like, it's a silly example, but I was doing something where I would put the poem in the middle of the page. And they said, unless you're doing that for some sort of intentional effect, it makes it look like a greeting card. And that was just something that hadn't really clicked to me before. And I was like, oh, yeah, that does make sense. So move it over and make it to more on the left hand side of the page. So that's something where it can just be those little things. But it was also just like having the other thing that. That helped me with was just like getting connected with somebody who had been published previously. Because, I mean, nowadays, you know, it is different than what it was before the Internet. Like, you can submit to things yourself. You don't need an agent, that type of thing necessarily. But it still can be really intimidating to be like, oh, who do I submit to? Where do I find places to submit to, where might be suitable for me? So that was also helpful. And it was also helpful to like, learn how to deal with. Because any writer will tell you this if they. If they're serious stuff. Like, you get way more rejections than you get acceptances for anything. And it's just like learning how to like, kind of deal with that and not take it personally and just say, like, you know, is. Is it the right time for this publication? Is it the right fit for it? Maybe, maybe not. But not taking that as like a commentary on your overall. The overall quality of your writing.
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B
Okay, let's go back to high school for a second. You have an author comes into the classroom. It's a Q and A. You can ask the author anything. Back when you first started, what were some of the questions you had that when you first started out, you didn't know the answer to?
- [09:10]
A
That's a really good question. I think, like, the first question is, like, how do you actually get a book or something published? Like, we know you go into a bookstore and you see all these books and you think, like, where. Where did they come from? How did they come to be in the world. Right. And what was that actual process? So that would, that would be something I would definitely ask them is like, how does that actually happen and what are the steps that you go through? I think the other thing is like, how do you actually sit down and really write something? And I know that like one of the people that, that you know and I. Some of his, some of his books are maybe better than others. Some people have different feelings about the different ones. But one thing that I always liked, I read an article by Stephen King, who you obviously is a very famous author. He wrote some articles about, like, how he writes. And one of the things he said is, you know, I view writing like my job. I do it eight hours a day like anybody else that has a job. I. This is my job. And I think a lot of people think, oh, writing is just this thing that I could do, you know, if you really want to make a job of it. Not that I've made a full time job of it myself, but at points where I was more serious, like finishing the novel, I was working on it six hours a day, you know, five hours a day, like even, even with working a job. Right. So I think that was the. The other thing is like, how do you organize your life and how do you make time to really, to really fit that in and what's your process like in that sense? So those are the two big questions that I would ask if I, if I could go back to high school. But I think the other thing is like, I think the other question I would ask maybe on a more philosophical level is like, why does somebody write? Like, what are they trying to convey with that? And I think that that's what a lot of people get stuck with is like the why and the sense of like, why, you know, what am I really trying to put out there? And also, like, sometimes I feel like when you read a lot, like, like I do, like, what is the original thing that I can say about this topic or about this feeling or about this area. Right. And I think there's so much content, there's so much stuff out there now. It's really kind of trying to hone in and find like, what is your unique contribution to something that you're not just like repeating other, other things.
- [11:31]
B
Okay, so I'm going to flip this on you now. Here we go. You would ask an author that question? I'm asking you the same question. Why do you write?
- [11:38]
A
Wow, okay. That's a great question. I mean, I think so.
- [11:42]
B
It's your question. It's your question. It's a very good question. Yeah.
- [11:45]
A
Yeah, exactly. So I think I would. I think I'll say it this way when. I mean, you write for different reasons depending on what you're writing. So I've written, you know, policy papers, I've written academic articles, I've written journalistic pieces, that type of thing. And in those contexts, you're really trying to persuade people of something. You're trying to say this is a good idea or this is a bad idea. And here's why. Here's why you should support it. Here's why you shouldn't support it. That type of thing. That's really what you're boiling down to at the end of the day. So it's writing to have that really concrete impact on the world. But when it comes to the creative writing, I guess to me, what I try to write and what I try to convey is like, there are these. It's two things. There are these moments in your life where you have these sort of intangible feelings or connections with. It could be another person, it could be nature, it could be the world. And I'm trying to capture that, and I'm trying to convey that to somebody else in the hopes that there is a recognition of that. And maybe they think about times in their own life when they felt that. Maybe they think about the people around them and it allows them to connect better with. With those people. Maybe it shows them a different perspective on something in the world that they. That they hadn't considered before. So that's the first thing. But then the second thing I. I think I try to convey is, like, people. I guess it comes back to that question of perspective. Like, people have one of the. Sorry, I'm kind of getting tied up. But like, one of the things that's really good about lighting and really good about being able to convey character and being able to convey different motivations, thoughts, all that type of thing is like, all of us are only ever in the world in our own head, right? We only have our own internal monologue. And reading, particularly a novel, it allows you to kind of temporarily inhabit somebody else's space and somebody else's thought patterns in a way that I don't think any other medium of writing or media, be it music, be it film, those are great. I love music, I love film. But it doesn't convey the same thing. And I think that that's what I try to. Try to think about is like, how can this maybe unlock something about a different perspective on the world to people and show them what thinking through somebody else's eyes is like. Somebody that doesn't have the same experience as you. Somebody that maybe has similar experiences but dealt with them in a different way. So I know that's maybe kind of a labbally answer, but I think that that's ultimately what I try to convey is and just try to create that sense of perhaps greater empathy for people through that.
- [14:36]
B
Excellent. I like it. I'm following you. I'm good. Let's talk a little bit about your background too, because you have some pretty interesting things you've been doing career wise. So you've been exposed to some places that many of us would never see or be a part of. Can you tell us a little bit about your background? Because I want to kind of use that as a leverage point to kind of get into your writing as well.
- [14:53]
A
Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, I've done a lot of different things over the course of my career, I think. You know, I've worked in Canada, I've worked in the United Kingdom, I've worked in Indonesia, I worked in the Caribbean for a bit on different sort of socioeconomic development projects, that type of thing. But probably most relevant to the writing and where some of my writing takes off is the fact that I've worked in Parliament and I'm in Canada, and I've worked in the Senate as well. So I was an intern and then a staffer for one of the parliamentary house leaders from 2015 up to 2019 in that time period, and then worked at the Senate for about a year later on. And it was, you know, I think it was a really great experience for me. I mean, it had ups and downs, as any job does, as anything does. But I think what it taught me in a way is that, you know, we have this image of politicians, we have this image of people in power as like, being very. And sometimes for a good reason, as being like, very distant from the rest of us, very distinct from the rest of us. But then when you actually work there, what you see is. Is two things you see is like, the people that are on camera, on the tv, they are just people. And they have flaws like everybody else. They have. And ones that you like when you see them on tv, maybe up close, not so great. Maybe the opposite is true. There's some people that I had had a certain impression of, you know, coming in that I had a very different impression of coming out. Both. Both positive and not, I won't say negative, but. But change the perception. Right. And I think that, you know, having worked there, the other thing it taught me is that, like, you can find really interesting points of convergence with people that you don't necessarily expect. There were times working there where we were able to get along with some people about certain issues that I never thought I would. Would get along with somebody about people who might have wildly divergent opinions about certain issues. But then on, on one issue, they can come together and really make a good impact on the world. And then the, the. The other thing there is really just that the other thing you don't really realize, Doc, with there is like, how young a lot of the people are. Not necessarily the MPs themselves, the prime minister or whatever, but the people merely making everything run. It's a lot of the times people in their 20s and 30s. And that's like, super interesting when we think about the way things are portrayed, is a lot of the times it's older people, but the people really making it run, the people who are willing to grind out, working overtime, you know, crazy hours, doing this or that, are those younger people. And it's. And it's because, you know, whether you agree with them or you don't, they do believe in something and they do want to create that. That change in the world. So, yeah, it was a super interesting set of experiences. I'm glad you've had it. And I think it led me to. Again, it's that question of perspective. Like, I think I came out of there with different perspectives and different sets of beliefs in the world, and different. Different. I think it taught me to be more open to making, Making connections with people that I wouldn't necessarily be expected to do.
- [18:18]
B
So when you look at our current political situation and where we are in Canada, what are you hopeful about? Because you, You've seen it from the other side. We don't. I've only seen it from what I see on tv. What are you hopeful about?
- [18:30]
A
Like, that's a super interesting question. I guess what I would say is this. I think that, you know, obviously, and, you know, we're recording this February 15th, and, you know, if you're a Canadian, obviously, and I won't, you know, go into the full details because it's not, you know, super relevant. But yeah, we had a very tragic situation happened in the country recently. And I think the thing that did make me feel hopeful about that is the fact that despite whatever you may read online, despite all the noise and stuff like that, I think people really did at the political level, really kind of rose above the expectations, I guess. And people kind of came together and said, we need to show empathy. We need to come together around that. I think the other thing that I do feel hopeful about is the fact that, you know, we're in a very challenging time. People say, oh, well, we're in a very challenging time. I don't think I've ever been in a not challenging time in terms of being both observing politics and also being involved in it more directly. But I do think that, like, people are a lot more open to different ideas right now, and they're a lot more open to, like, just because we've been doing something one way in the past doesn't mean we need to keep doing it that way in the future, whether that's our relationships with different countries, whether that's how we think about each other, whether that's, you know, the way we're working together. And I think there is a lot more of a spirit of it. And I noticed, like, people who are not usually super interested in politics, I think are getting more interested because there's so much going on. And when I grew up, you know, it was very. Not to say there were different political issues that people cared about. There were, but it seemed much more like people were kind of like, oh, I don't really want to talk about that. But when I go home now to Covid, like, people are much more interested in it. People are much more like, what do you think about this? Because I do live in Ottawa still, people will go, what do you think about this issue? What do you think about that issue? So I think there is more. There's more information out there. The flip side of that is, you know, maybe there's more information that's not necessarily the greatest or not necessarily accurate or whatever. Different. Different types of things. But I do think people are more interested and I do think that we've, you know, I do think on. On the best days we've been able to at the political level kind of demonstrate maturity, demonstrate the ability to come together. And, you know, there is. I'll put it this way, having been on the other side of it, there is sometimes a lot of stuff that we would say is like, for the cameras, you know, and there's this kind of creation of that. I. I think that we are hopefully maybe moving towards a situation where there's less of that for the cameras and there's more kind of really getting down to. To the serious issues, I hope, anyway.
- [21:17]
B
Yeah, no, I'm totally with you on that. I love that. Let's talk about your, your book, your writing. We have readers here that love to fall in love with a new author and add you to their collection. And to. So let's kind of talk to, to the readers.
- [21:31]
A
What.
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B
Who are you trying to write to? Who do you have in mind as a, As a reader?
- [21:35]
A
Yeah, good question. So as far as the novel itself, which, you know, is called Smaller Animals, it came back out back in November, so been, you know, doing a number of events, Spoiled and that type of thing. I think the. So the novel just give brief synopsis. It kind of is inspired by, not a biography or autobiography or whatever, but inspired by some of my experiences working in politics. It follows young staffers in the political milieu here in Canada and kind of their relationships with each other and how they interact with, you know, the political scene and, and all that type of stuff. I think it was interesting because, you know, I tried to sort of pitch it as, okay, there are people that are interested in politics might want to read a fictional story about that. Something like a West Wing or a, you know, a novel by. A Canadian context. Novel by Terry Fowles, for example. Example is a writer that's done some stuff in this area. I want to reach that, but I also wanted to reach somebody who's like, I'm not particularly interested in politics, but I like a story with interesting characters and characters that are flawed, but have a lot of different, like, kind of motivations and have a lot of different things that they're dealing with. And it's almost kind of more of a coming of age story. So the novelist that, you know, I would compare it to, people ask you, obviously, you know, I've had this question, like, what writers inspire you? Like, what kind of novels were you thinking about when you wrote this? And what are some of your influences? And I said, like, there's the, the one I always pick, which is a fairly obscure novel at this point, is this novel called Prague by an author called Arthur Phillips, which came out in about 2004. And I read that when I was in high school. And it's basically a novel about this group of American expats who moved to Hungary, like right after communism falls in Hungary. So it's this kind of like gold rush into the country to try to make money and like change the way the country is working. But it's this group of very young people who are kind of given because of the context they're given, like outsized power and like, shaping the events around them and how they deal with that. So there's that novel. I think, you know, a novel that people probably be more familiar with would be something like the Sun Also Rises by Eris Hemingway in the sense of. Again, it's following a group of young people who are kind of disconnected, kind of like not in quite the same way, but it is that kind of like coming of age story, how they're interacting with each other. The other one that I've heard it compared to by some readers is Sally Woody, who of course, you know, has written a number of different novels. She's an Irish author. Some of them have been adapted for TV and film. I will say I like her novels. I think that maybe I always find that comparison a little bit interesting because there's maybe more of a direct political thrust to what I'm writing. But yeah, so I think whether you're interested in the political side of it or you're interested in just reading a good story about interesting characters kind of interacting with each other, that's who I'm kind of pitching it at. And I think the reaction's been interesting because, you know, doing it, doing some of the events in Ottawa that I've done, you do get those people that are kind of more interested in politics and they want to talk about like, oh, was this inspired by something? Was this character based on a particular person? Like that type of thing. But then when I've done some events or discussions that are not in Ottawa, it is more kind of like, what do you, like, what were you trying to convey with this? Why, like the characters, what are their motivations, that type of thing. So I've been able to see it at kind of both levels and I find that that's super interesting that people are connecting with it on different, on different wavelengths depending on where they're at. Okay.
- [25:22]
B
So it's not really like a step by step, day by day recounting of your background kind of put into a book, but there's some elements of you in your characters then.
- [25:32]
A
Yeah, I think there's elements of me and elements of the people that I was around at that time. I think that, you know, all of us are always influenced by, you know, the things we, the things we do in our lives when we're doing our writing. Right. It's very hard for me. And not that, you know, not that I haven't tried my hand at writing sci fi type of stuff where you really imagining this totally different scenario that like doesn't exist at all, but. And you know, the people that can do that really well. God. God bless. Like, some of my favorite novels are sci fi novels. But, um, I think that I. I think that, yeah, like, there. There's definitely some influence there, but I think it's more just about, like, I draw from that because the, like, you want to write a character that's a realistic character, and you want to write a character that has all these different human elements to them. And I try to think about, like, okay, what would somebody that I know going through this situation, how would they react to it? Why would they react to it that way? What in their background would lead them to do that? And that's kind of how I begin to construct characters when I'm. When I'm writing a. Whether it's a short story or whether it's, in this case a novel.
- [26:44]
B
Okay. Now I'm super curious about how authors come to title their books, because it's kind of like naming a child. I have three kids, so I've given them their names and they carry it with them. How did you title and name this book? Because when I read Smaller Animals, I'm wondering, is this a book about animals? Is this about a farm? Like, what is this? So how did you land on the title? And can you expand on.
- [27:07]
A
Yeah, no, that's a super interesting question. So basically the idea of it was that, you know, people talk about like, you're a political animal. You're like a thing. And I thought about, okay, these are the smaller animals in the sense of, like, they are, you know, the, the junior staffers, the people that don't get on tv, the people that are doing the kind of background work. There's the big animal at the front, the prime minister, whoever. And then there's the smaller animals, the people behind them, the people that are being led, not necessarily the leader. Right. So that was kind of my, my thinking around the title. I think people have. It's interesting because, yeah, like, some people do kind of feel like, okay, the title, like, you maybe have to kind of think about it on a. On a. It takes a couple of steps to get. Oh, okay, I see what you're saying. But I played around with different titles for it, and that one was the one that people seem to like. Once they led the novel, they felt that it stuck the most.
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B
Okay. For readers. Do we have to have some kind of political knowledge about the mechanics of how Parliament works to get.
- [28:12]
A
I don't think so.
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B
Or do you kind of lead us?
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A
I don't think so. Like, it is not, you know, a step by step. Here's how you pass a bill in Parliament type of thing. I think, like, I think, you know, again, just my perspective, I think I give you enough to understand, okay, this is why these characters are trying to do this thing. This is why this is the end goal they have. This is where things are going. But I don't think you need to really be super knowledgeable about the political process. And it is much more a story about a set of characters kind of interacting with each other and how they go through life and how they try to discover themselves, I guess. And the politics in that sense is kind of a, a wrapping paper or a context in which they're existing because that's, you know, the, the stories that I really like and I've been inspired by are these kind of stories about personal growth, about change, about this type of thing. And the context can be, you know, it could be politics, it could be the military, it could be being shipwrecked on a desert island. It could be anything. Right. But the, the important thing is that, you know, you're conveying that sense of change and like why and how do people change? So I don't think you really need to be super familiar with, with like how parliament works in order to, to understand it. It might, it may add something to it. It may add some recognition of like, oh yeah, I get that, I've been in that situation or something like that. But I don't think you would need to be super, super knowledgeable about that.
- [29:45]
B
So I'd anticipate that the staffers have different kind of levels of autonomy in their role. So it's not like everybody does the same thing. Like you there be some very basic entry, entry level staffers and then more seasoned. Yeah, like long term staffers. How much autonomy did you have? Like are you just kind of do a task, hand in the task, get a new task, hand it to them? Like I think are you able to kind of move within your role?
- [30:10]
A
Yeah, I think when you start out, it's definitely like, here's a task, do it, here's a task, do it. That type of thing. Like the really younger people, it's very much that. But when you get to a senior level person, like you're, you're writing a note for the MP and it's just like, hey, I need a note on this. However you do it, you know, get it to me or you know, I need some speaking points on X, Y, Z or I need to, you know, I need you to organize an event or help with this or whatever type of thing and you have a fair degree of autonomy at that point. When you're, when you're up higher, when you, when you, you know, it's like any other job, I suppose, in that sense of, like when you're newer, when you're lower on the, on the ladder, like, it's, it's. It, you know, you're going to be more directed. Like, when I started out, it was very much, you know, okay, here, here's these spreadsheets. Go through them and look through for this. Here's a, Here's a mailing list. Make sure that the, that the emails and the phone numbers are lined up correctly. Like that type of stuff. The guard work, I guess. But as you, as you get higher, like, I do think there's a lot, and there's a lot of cases, you know, where, particularly when you're talking about ministerial staff and stuff like that, like, they're really making more, in some cases, more of the decisions really, than the minister themselves or, you know, you have a lot of power in the sense of you're controlling what information gets to people making decisions and how they do it. So you talk about chiefs of staff, we talk about stuff like that. You really have a lot of, a lot of power and control at that point, which, you know, you can, you can use in different ways, and you can, you know, use it in a good way or a bad way, but you, you definitely have a lot. But it is about. I think the power in that sense really comes from access and comes from ability to control. Like, I think that's the thing that working there really taught me is like, how much of a currency, information and access to information really is to people. Because without information, you can't make decisions. But also, depending on what information is presented to you, you're going to make a different decision. So the people that are able to control the information that gets presented to you to make that decision, that's going to be super critical to the decision you ultimately make.
- [32:28]
B
Okay, so I'm going to frame this question and I'd love for you to talk to the, to the listener, the reader for this one. Okay. Carter, I hope that smaller animals does this for you as a reader. Finish that sentence for me. I hope smaller animals does what for the reader?
- [32:44]
A
I think. I hope smaller animals connects with people and makes them recognize something of themselves in the characters that are in there, whether they're a younger person, whether they're an older person. Maybe it's a younger person right now going through some of the same challenges about identity formation, about deciding what they want to do with their life, about the relationships that they have. I hope it helps them. I hope it connects with them. Whether it's an older person who maybe at an earlier point in their life had those experiences, I hope it connects with them and I hope that they build more of an understanding of how important parts of our country work and the people that, that really make it, that make it work, that don't really get the headlines a lot of the time.
- [33:39]
B
So it's kind of, yeah, it's, it's a behind the scenes. The people who make people make everything work, who don't get a lot of attention, don't get the spotlight. But without them, the spotlight would be on the people who have really don't have the support they need to do their job. So this is really fundamental for people in leadership. I would think in the US they're going to have a similar type of model to support their leaders as well. Yeah, this can kind of go around the world.
- [34:05]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, you know, I know some people that have done similar type of work in the US and you know, what if whatever you think about the US Right now, like, I mean, it is, it is about that, that access to people and it is about that ability to control information. And I think we see right now there is much more of a focus, maybe not for particularly great reasons, but there is much more of a focus on like, who are the advisors to these people? Who are the people giving them information? Who are the people? So I think in a way that's actually, it's good in a way because it's making people more aware of the fact that the people that you see with the job title, with the, with the headline are not necessarily the most influential people. In a lot of cases, it is these kind of lower level people who are really feeding that information upward, framing the discussions. Here's what we're going to focus on. Here's what we're not going to focus on. Those people are really influential and really, really critical to things that happen, whether they're again, good things or bad things.
- [35:11]
B
Excellent. Carter. This is really interesting. I was really looking forward to this conversation because I don't have vision to what you've done in the past. I just see, I see the results, I see what we see on the news, but there's always these people kind of scurrying around in the background. You're like, who are these people? Who are like behind the people we see?
- [35:29]
A
Right.
- [35:29]
B
Those people are really really important. So I'm glad you're kind of. You're shining a light on your cohorts and the people you worked with and the role you've had in the past. I think this is fantastic.
- [35:39]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [35:40]
B
So let's talk about connecting with you, Carter. As a listener, as a reader, we want to know more about you, follow your journey. We always want to be able to make it super easy for people to follow up and stay in your world. So where would you like to send a listener?
- [35:54]
A
Yeah, so I'm actually just in the process. It should be up by the time this episode goes up. My official Miters website, I guess, that I've been working on putting together should be up. It's just my name, Codervance. Ca. No spaces, no anything, just code advanced. Ca. One word. If you want to follow me on Instagram, I'm on there. All the links will be on my website. To be able to buy the book, to be able to support me, connect with me, all that will be on the website. I am. For some reason, I've decided to stay on Twitter. X. I don't really use it that much, but it is a way to connect with me again, it's just my name, one word, Codervance on there. What else am I on? LinkedIn. You can find me on there. You know, more my professional side. Those are really the big three. So Instagram, Twitter and then. And then LinkedIn. But really everything as far as the book and stuff like that will be on my be on the website.
- [36:51]
B
Awesome. We'll make sure we include a link for that. Carter, the name of my show is Living the Next Chapter. So it's kind of built into the name of the podcast. As a published author, how are you living your next chapter? Do you have plans for the future to keep writing? Can you give us an idea?
- [37:05]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm always going to be writing. Writing. I think it's been part of my life like we talked about since high school, on and off. More so at different times, less so at other times. But I think it. It is always going to be part of my life as far as like the next step. You know, I'm always writing things. I'm always writing short stories, poetry. I'm always, you know, I. I get things published here and there. I have another. Had a short story that was published recently in Plentitude magazine, which is a fair Canadian literary journal. So that was super exciting. One of my first short story publications in quite a while. I have another short story that's coming out soon in a different publication and yeah, otherwise just continuing to write, continue your work on things as far as, you know, the question people always ask you when you write a novel is a, when what's your next novel about? When's that coming out? And there are some people that I think, you know, have. Okay, I. The next one it's about this, the next one, it's about that. Like, for me, especially during the first novel like this was really, in terms of moving from writing the novel to it being published was about a six year process with a lot of editing and a lot of things and pitching it to different people and stuff like that. So I feel like that really was a journey and now I'm seeing not the end of the journey, but the end of that stage, of that journey. So I'm kind of waiting for that to fully, kind of finish or fully process itself to me, I suppose, before I move to the next thing. But, you know, I have a couple of ideas and if, if anybody, you know, is interested in them, if somebody's listening that, that might be interested in hearing more about that, I'd be more than happy to connect with them. But I've always read. But in terms of, you know, what I might want to write about, I guess maybe this is easier. I've always, I've always been fascinated. I've never been there myself, but I've always been fascinated by the story around the construction and then the. The fall of the Berlin Wall. And I always thought about, could I write something that was kind of about characters that were involved in the construction of the Berlin Wall? And then seeing it, you know, over that course of time, that 40 or so year course of time, this thing that was supposed to be there forever ended up, you know, in 40 years, in one person's lifetime, completely changed. So that's something I've always thought about, would be an interesting thing to write about. But I haven't actually been there myself, so I think I need to go there and really experience it before I write about it.
- [39:35]
B
Nice. Well, the selfish reason I asked that question about what you're working on next, just because I want to have you back, of course, to talk about the next project. So when that happens in the future, would love to keep the door open for you, Carter, and have you back. That'd be wonderful.
- [39:48]
A
Absolutely. It's been great talking with you, Dave.
- [39:51]
B
Excellent, everyone. All the information, as always, in the show notes, when you buy, not if, but when you buy Carter's book, please leave a Great review. Let people know why you love it, what stood out for you as a reader. And as you're listening to this, you're probably thinking of someone else that would also love Carter's book. Then let them know about Carter. Send them this web, this podcast, send his website, his information, or simply just buy two books and give it to them. That way, we can sell as many books as possible and support our authors. Carter, again, thank you so much for being on the show.
- [40:21]
A
Thank you, Dave.
- [40:26]
B
Hey, thank you so much again for pressing play. As you've heard, great guests on the show, and one thing you didn't hear in this conversation is what? What did you not hear? Think about it for a second. That's right. Not a single solitary commercial for a mattress or a supplement or whatever you call it. No.
- [40:47]
A
Why?
- [40:47]
B
Because we don't want to break up the conversation with commercials. So the fact that you're still here means that you are a fan of the show, I'm assuming. So if you want to help to keep the podcast going and to make me feel really happy, all I really care about is coffee. Okay. I just got to be honest. I love coffee. I'm drinking one right now. Starting to get cold. I need to warm it up. Helping us with our Buy me a coffee link over at living the next chapter.com and also in the show notes, helps kind of keep the lights on around here. Remember, I'm doing this for free. I. I'm paying for everything, so I would love to have a little coffee donation. You know, even five bucks kind of fills up my cup. And I would love to enjoy a coffee from you. So if you're interested, again, thank you for listening, but you can use our Buy me a coffee link and fill up the cup. Thanks for being here.