← Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
E694 - Anna B Reardon - Wethersfield Road - A love letter to anyone who’s ever felt like they were too much
00:47:05
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- [00:01]
A
You know, I think so much of healing is not about learning anything new. It's about relearning what we've forgotten. So I really encourage people to remember that they already have everything they need inside of them 100%. Even if they feel like they don't, it doesn't mean it's gone. It just means they lost it and they need to find it. It's in there, you know? And I would just say, like, the journey from relying on the external to relying on the internal is not linear. There are still days where I start relying on other things to make me okay. It never lasts. It never works. I always have to go back to relying on that internal source of strength. But I would say, like, it's not going to feel natural at first, and it's not going to feel comfortable at first. Something that's really important to remember when you're making that shift is that discomfort is not a red light, it's a green light. Discomfort means we're learning, we're growing, we're developing. So, yeah, that's what comes to mind for that.
- [01:08]
B
Everybody, welcome back to Living the Next Chapter. It's the author podcast. I get to have a lot of great people on the show and a lot of great authors, and I see a lot of websites, and this one is beautiful. You gotta go check it out. It's gorgeous. It's got lots of great stuff here. Anna's on the show. We're gonna be talking about her journey. We got a lot to cover here. Lots around sobriety, lots about. Oh, it's just so much. We're gonna talk about forests and amusement parks because that's interesting. That's gonna be part of the topic. You're like, what are we talking about? You'll find out. Stick around. Anna's here. Anna, welcome to the show.
- [01:43]
A
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
- [01:46]
B
Come on. Right. Like, there's. There's people you meet, and they just light up the screen when you meet them, because we're meeting virtually, right so. And then there's people who are a little bit. You kind of. Kind of crank them up a little bit, get them warmed up. Not you. You're like, let's go, let's go. Why are we waiting? Why are we so. I love it.
- [02:04]
A
Thank you.
- [02:05]
B
Anna, where are you? Where do you live?
- [02:07]
A
I am in Austin, Texas.
- [02:10]
B
Okay.
- [02:11]
A
Y live music capital of the world.
- [02:13]
B
Wow. Right? Oh, I loved. Is it Austin City Limits?
- [02:19]
A
It is, yes.
- [02:21]
B
They have, like, Stevie Ray Vaughan.
- [02:24]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [02:24]
B
I'M a guitar player. Eric Johnson.
- [02:26]
A
Yeah, we've got a lot of legends. Yeah, 100.
- [02:31]
B
Okay, well, and it's Texas, so you can't go wrong with that. Right. That's. That's a big thing, too. The land of the big sky and all that. Right.
- [02:41]
A
It has its upsides.
- [02:43]
B
Yeah. Were you born and raised there?
- [02:46]
A
I was actually born in Teaneck, New Jersey, and I have family all in the east coast, but I've lived in Austin since I was like, 7 years old, so it feels like home.
- [02:57]
B
Okay, good. All right. So beyond music, what else is something to do in Austin, Texas?
- [03:03]
A
Oh, gosh, there's just so many things. Like, one of my favorite things about Austin is within the span of a day, you can go to an art installation. You can go hiking on the green belt, you can go kayaking on Lake Austin. You could go to the middle of a downtown metropolitan area. Like, you could go to see horses and farmland. Like, it's just so many different things that you can do within, like a 20 mile radius.
- [03:30]
B
Okay, all right. All I have is a big hill with lots of water called Niagara Falls. I got that.
- [03:36]
A
That's beautiful. That sounds amazing.
- [03:40]
B
Yeah. As much as I forget how great it is, because there's people coming from all over the world and you're like, oh, yeah, I should be a tourist in my own town.
- [03:48]
A
Yeah, right. It's a bucket list item for me for sure.
- [03:52]
B
Okay, well, when you come, we will have coffee together. We'll sit and chat, and I don't know, maybe we'll have a beaver tail. Would you like a beaver tail?
- [04:01]
A
I would love all of those things. Yes. That sounds great.
- [04:03]
B
You have no idea what a beaver tail is, though.
- [04:05]
A
I don't, but I'll try anything once.
- [04:07]
B
Okay. It's not actually no beavers were harmed in the making of a beaver tail. It's like a big cookie kind of thing.
- [04:14]
A
Oh, immediately. Yes.
- [04:15]
B
It looks like a beaver. Anyways, so, yeah, I don't want anybody who loves beavers to be like, hey, leave the beavers alone. No, we're fine. No beavers were harmed. Okay. This is good. And I have you on the show because A, you're fun to talk to, and B, you're an author, which is awesome. If you had time, early in your journey as an author to sit down with somebody who is published like you are now, what would have been a question you would have had for them that would have helped you as a new author?
- [04:49]
A
The first thing that comes to mind isn't a very practical question. But it's just, am I supposed to feel this, like, vulnerable and emotional and just like I'm being cracked open in front of the whole world? I think I would have asked like, is it normal for it to be this emotional a process? And I would probably tell myself, yeah, I mean, think about what you're doing. You're taking your words, which are something that exists, like within you, and you're putting them out there for people to read. Like, that's inherently terrifying and powerful. So that's the first thing that comes to mind is just like, I would tell myself to really, like, practice a lot of self care and really honor how tender that process just inherently is.
- [05:39]
B
And that cracked open, they gave me a visual. And I'm a dad, so I have dad jokes. I would say that's an, that's an excellent question that you would ask yourself.
- [05:50]
A
Yeah, I'm a big dad joke fan. We love a dad joke.
- [05:55]
B
Okay, all right, we'll scrap, we'll scramble this all up and.
- [05:58]
A
Yes.
- [05:59]
B
See what happens. Okay, so how would you answer that question for yourself then? You've asked it now. How would you answer it for the person listening?
- [06:07]
A
I would say that depending on what you're writing, it's completely normal. You know. You know Wethersfield Road, my. My first novel that I published in September, it's what is called auto fiction. So it's really based on my own experience getting sober and going through mental health treatment and kind of growing up through my early 20s. So it was an inher, vulnerable thing to write. So I would really tell myself, you know, if any piece of you is in your writing, which usually it is. Yeah, of course it's normal for it to feel really vulnerable and scary. And that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
- [06:49]
B
So your book is not. Make sure I do this right. Your book is not like a. A telling of your story line by line, date by date. Memoir. Right. It's a fictionalized version of your story. Is that true?
- [07:03]
A
Exactly. Yeah. It's kind of like I took the. The facts of my story and all the real emotions, put them in a blender and press the button and kind of saw what would come out. So some of the stuff in my book absolutely happened. Some of it did not happen. Some of the people are completely made up. It was a really fun process.
- [07:26]
B
So where did the idea come from to actually write the book then?
- [07:30]
A
So the idea came from my own journey, getting sober, which is that I had kind of lost a lot of touch with other human beings. I'D lost a lot of faith in other human beings. And so animals and nature, which is where we get into, like, the national forest bit. You know, animals and nature were kind of the only thing that I could still feel and have access to when it came to, like, waking me up from how bad things were. And, you know, I had an experience with my animals that led me to think, like, what if I wrote a story about a girl who rides her horse under the influence and crashes, and that's why she goes to rehab? And so it's about my horse, and, you know, the main character is riding the horse and rides. Rides the horse under the influence, crashes. And that is the thing that kind of perpetuates that cycle of, okay, it's time to go to treatment. It's time to seek help. And then, you know, through. You know, and this is the truth of my own life, through becoming the person my animals deserved, I learned how to be a human being. And that is really the story of Amelia in Wethersfield Road.
- [08:47]
B
All right. The process of writing. How long did it take from concept to reality for your book?
- [08:53]
A
So I. I started writing Wethersfield Road as, like, a therapeutic exercise. I would say the fall of 2023. By. By February 2024, I was working with a coach and developmental editor. By early 2025, I was doing my first round of edits. By spring, my second round of edits. And. Yeah, and then we published the next September. So it was. You know, But I will say, like, there were. There are chunks of this book that I've been writing since I was, like, 16. You know, like, there are journal entries, there are old blog entries. You know, just a bunch of stuff that's been kind of floating around for a long time. So one answer is probably, like, 15 years, and the other answer is, like, probably about two years.
- [09:46]
B
Okay, well, okay, that's interesting that you can pull from all those different resources and different moments in time, and I'm. It's nice to hear that you captured those moments. It's very hard to go back and try to be in the moment for something that happened years ago.
- [10:02]
A
Yeah.
- [10:02]
B
With no documentation about it or no thoughts written down or recordings or whatever. It's very hard to put yourself back in that spot.
- [10:10]
A
It totally is. Yeah. It really is. And you know, something that's interesting, in chapter one, Amelia talks about how even people who have experienced, like, a deep depression, they can't really fully access what it was like unless they are currently in it. Like, it's depression. Something that kind of must take you. So it's like you can't really go back there and describe what it was like unless you're in it sometimes. And so to have those journal entries from when I was truly in a dark place was so helpful because it was like, oh, I remember viewing the world that way, but if I had just had to go back there myself, it probably would have been hard for me to access because the brain kind of protects itself from that.
- [10:52]
B
How do you keep yourself from being caught up in quicksand? Going back to these memories, going back to these moments, and not getting stuck there. Like, you're at a different spot than you are now, what you are now than you were. So is there a danger that you might get. Go back into some memory and go. And then just sit there and you can't get back out?
- [11:13]
A
Yeah, you know, I think there's always risk in kind of like, doing the archeological dig of, you know, finding our traumatic memories and, you know, excavating them. But, you know, I think there's also. We can get into this thing in art where it's kind of like the trauma Olympics of, like, I'm gonna tell the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And we don't. You are. We are not obligated to do that. Right. Like, I never write about something until I've healed enough where it's not going to cause harm. It will bring up an emotion because I'm a human being. But if something feels like it will cause harm to go to that place, I try and avoid that, because I think writing is supposed to be a joyful experience.
- [12:00]
B
Does that have an impact on the story, though? Because isn't that a formative moment for you where it's kind of can't just, like, control, alt, delete, and say, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna think about this, but that could have an impact on your story as an arc. Sure. You kind of wrestle with that, then.
- [12:18]
A
I think I just didn't write this story until I was ready, you know, because everything that needed to be in there is in there. But I also think if I had tried to write this book, you know, 10 years ago or five years ago even, it would have been a very different experience. It would have been kind of from a more place of hurt, place of, like, healing.
- [12:40]
B
Who is this book a companion for?
- [12:42]
A
This book is a companion for, you know, it feels really broad to say, millennial women, but, you know, it. This. This book really speaks to that really achy feeling of feeling like you're too much and not enough at the same time. Which I think is a really, like, visceral feeling for human beings in general. But I. I find it really resonates with women in kind of my age group that were born like in the 90s or early 2000s because we had all these really toxic body standards. We had. We had the Internet kind of making its grand entrance into our social lives before we even really were aware of how to socialize. We had all these, like, kind of unique challenges in our adolescence that. That made it really hard to become a person in a lot of ways. And I know that's true for every generation, but this book really speaks to that kind of specific, specific time in life of coming of age and, you know, going to Blockbuster, having American Girl dolls, talking on aim, you know, like all of those things. And so, yeah, I think this is for the millennial woman, but it's also for anybody who's in therapy or healing or trying to get sober or thinking maybe they should get sober or who loves a person who's sober or struggling with addiction. It's really a book about getting better.
- [14:08]
B
That reminds me that I think I have a Blockbuster video I forgot to take back, so.
- [14:12]
A
Oops.
- [14:13]
B
Okay. Oh, well. Oh, well, sorry about that. Yeah. Okay, so for. For somebody that's listening then, I'm just curious to know. We talked about who the book is for. We want everyone to read it, which is like, that's obvious. But is there some. Is this book not intended for a certain audience? So that we can kind of just say, you know, you can read it, but it's not written specifically to you, but we want you to read it. But someone. This book is not really designed for.
- [14:44]
A
Yeah. You know, I would say if. If talking about suicide or abuse or eating disorders or anything, there's a warning at the beginning of the book, just kind of letting the audience know, like, hey, if these things are harmful to hear about, like, this might not be for. So I encourage folks to read that before they dive in. It should be just like the first available page on. When you go either on Amazon or whatever, you should be able to check it out so you don't buy it. And then like, oh, I can't read this. It's not safe for me. But I would also say it's probably not for people who. It's probably not for people who are not woo woo. I'm trying to find a way to, like, it's a pretty, like, hippie dippy, woo woo. Like the house she Lives in, has a personality, and she starts to, like, you know, really just become one with the world around her. And so I would say if you don't have kind of that side of you that's more whimsical and like, appreciates kind of going into the woo woo side of life, it might feel a little bit weird for you.
- [15:58]
B
Okay, well, that might be a challenge for somebody who's like, well, I'm curious about that.
- [16:02]
A
Totally.
- [16:04]
B
Now I'm like a really super interested in your book. So.
- [16:07]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, I kind of. As I. The longer I stayed in sobriety, I started to see kind of just the synchronicities of the world. And it became this really kind of magical place. It had always been the same, but once I shifted my perspective, it became really magical. And so that's kind of what I try and show in the book is like, all of a sudden, the leaves falling from the trees are like a revelation. You know, they've always been falling from the trees, but now, oh my God, it's the most beautiful thing. And the book really tries to speak to that. Like, it's our job to see a ladybug and think, oh, I wonder what that means, instead of just, oh, it's a bug, you know?
- [16:45]
B
Yeah. Yeah. All right, let's talk a little bit about the story behind the story with your addiction. It's shown up in different ways for you growing up. I'm curious. The. The gateway to addiction. For someone listening, is it wide, easy to walk through doorway? Is it something you had to fight to get into and create a space to get into this? Like, how welcoming was addiction for you? And kind of when did it start for you as well?
- [17:18]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, you know, the main character, and this is based on my own experience. She calls her experience coping mechanism whack, a mole, meaning that if it's not the drugs and alcohol, it's the promiscuous sex. And if it's not that, it's the binge eating. If it's not binge eating, it's restricted restriction and so on and so on. So, you know, I. I would say, like, the first thing I was ever addicted to was attention. And that's what a four, you know, age four, you know, and it just got increasingly like that. Then it was boys and getting boys attention. And then it was, oh, I just smoked weed for the first time. And that felt pretty good. And, you know, one of my favorite things I've ever heard about addiction is if drugs and alcohol don't do anything for you. They can't do anything to you. And from the very beginning, drugs and alcohol did something very, like, elusive for me. Like, they really just kind of made me feel okay in a way that I never had before. So I think like, when I used to be a therapist and see clients, that's what I would really listen for in those teens. Like, oh, I tried drinking with my friends, it was fine. We had fun. Versus I got drunk with my friends and I finally felt like I could talk to people for the first time. Like, that is the red flag when this is something that does something for us. I think that's kind of the door of addiction because you're gonna keep chasing that until it stops working for you. And then we have the, the, the jumping off point of, okay, do I get sober or do I keep chasing this thing that's failing me?
- [18:58]
B
So does addiction in some ways fill gaps for us that we can't fill in other ways?
- [19:04]
A
I think so. I think, you know, some people call it a God sized hole. Some people call it just kind of like a vacant space in our chest. You know, I've heard it referred to as many different things, lots of different philosophies about it. But yeah, you know, I think all of us kind of have something in us that longs to be filled with something bigger and maybe that's stronger and maybe, maybe that need feels more urgent for addicts. I don't really know, but. But I think as human beings, we all want to have an understanding of something bigger or a connection to something, even if it's just each other.
- [19:46]
B
So we're talking about what other people say it is. But what was it for you? What was that hole for you?
- [19:53]
A
I think for me it was just this idea of I'm wrong. And I've heard that for several, from several other people that are on healing journeys of just this inherent feeling of like, I was made wrong, that emptiness of there's something missing. Like, that's what it really felt like for me is like I used to say that it felt like I missed the day of kindergarten when they handed out the piece of paper that told you how to be a person. I was just missing the rule book. That's what it felt like for me.
- [20:31]
B
So addiction seems to be most commonly discussed around alcohol, drugs, sex. All these things seem to be like the, the top things that people talk about. Addiction shows up in a lot of different formats. Yeah. As you're listening to this right now, if your phone is in Your hand. And it's always in your hand. It's the first thing you turn on in the morning, last thing you turn off at night. Welcome to your addiction. You're addicted to your phone.
- [21:03]
A
Sure.
- [21:03]
B
You're addicted to approval. You're addicted to your work. Yeah, if I just stay busy enough and just stay ahead of it. Right. It's my addiction. I'm addicted to Netflix. I'm addicted to chocolate. I'm addicted to coffee, Starbucks. Oxygen. Breathing. Yeah, I'm addicted to breathing. But we all have things, right? So it seems like it's some. Always someone else's problem, you know? Oh, this is just Anna's problem. Anna. Anna's got to work through Anna's stuff. I'm good. I'm fine. I'm not addicted to anything. But if we kind of go through our week and realize and track what we do and.
- [21:43]
A
Yeah.
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B
How we show up in this world, you might be surprised. So I think your book and the story around your book can be applied to many different situations. Not just drugs, alcohol, sex. Right. There's a bigger picture to all.
- [22:00]
A
Totally.
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B
As well. So your audience is quite broad.
- [22:03]
A
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I mean, you know, the. The. The main character also struggles with disordered eating and healing from an eating disorder. And, you know, the thing about eating, you know, sex and drugs, you know, abstinence is an option. Right. With food, abstinence is not an option. You gotta eat. Right. So that's something I think so many people struggle with. So there's that. And, you know, there's just that interesting line of, like. Like you said, like, there's so many things we're addicted to. I'm addicted to coffee. I have two cups of coffee every single morning. If I don't, I am a monster. But it doesn't cause mayhem in my life. It doesn't cause distress in my life or my relationships. And I think that's the question is, like, yeah, we can all be addicted to all kinds of things, but is it causing distress in some way?
- [22:54]
B
Is it a coping mechanism then?
- [22:56]
A
It's a good question. Yeah. You know, I think there's some line between coping mechanism and just a pleasurable ritual. Right. You know, and I think those lines get blurred all the time. Being a person's hard.
- [23:17]
B
It is hard. It's very difficult. But then we have the whole world around us. So there's people like you on a journey. I have a friend named jj. He's got a. A retreat center for people who are going through their sobriety. And it's an alcohol and drug free location for weddings and all this. But there's no, there's no alcohol allowed on the property.
- [23:44]
A
Yeah.
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B
And he's purposely built it that way because that was his journey. And. But we're surrounded by events that celebrate alcohol and excess.
- [23:55]
A
Yep.
- [23:55]
B
New Year's, weddings, birthdays. Right. So it's, it's in our everyday life with a bunch of people who are at different stages of enjoying or partaking. And then here we are trying to live a sober life in a very non sober world.
- [24:16]
A
Yeah.
- [24:17]
B
So how, how do you navigate social functions? Being around people who might treat you like a fragile egg? Maybe back to the egg. How do you navigate that? Yeah, because I, my personal hobby approach would be just to pull back from all social functions where that's going to be something I'm going to be exposed to and I'm just not going to go get it.
- [24:41]
A
Sure.
- [24:41]
B
Then I go in, I go withdrawn and I lose my connections with my friends and family.
- [24:47]
A
Yeah.
- [24:47]
B
How do you, how do you balance sobriety in a non sober world? Yeah.
- [24:52]
A
And this is such a tricky thing, especially for folks getting sober young. I got sober for the first time at 17. I didn't stay sober, but at the time I got sober and it stuck. I was 22 and now I'm 32, you know, so that was a big chunk of my developmental years where I had to learn how to do those things without alcohol. Like dating, like making friends, you know, like applying for jobs or, you know, whatever it is. But, you know, that's why I really like the way Amelia's story kind of paints a picture of how to do that. And the name of the game is having sober community. Because, you know, in the book, there's a sober New Year's party that's based on a real party that I've thrown for many, many years, where one year I just, you know, I was actually talking to my dad who had seen me struggle for so long, and we talked about how hard of a holiday New Year's Eve is for sober people. And we made the decision to throw a big party for people to have a safe place to come party and, you know, have music and laughter and dancing, but there was just no alcohol. And if a, if a person who drank came to that party, they probably wouldn't, they probably assume everyone was drunk. Yeah, yeah, but that's in the book. And you know, a sober wedding is in the book. You know, there's just so many ways to enjoy life without alcohol. But I think the most important Thing is having that support around you to. To. To help you do that.
- [26:21]
B
How do you think your book can help somebody who hasn't struggled with addiction but wants to be a supportive person to people in their life that are on a journey of sobriety? How would your book help somebody like that?
- [26:34]
A
Yeah, you know, I think it would help people just understand, like, the inner workings of a person who struggles with this stuff, how their mind works. I've heard that from readers, like, it's just helpful to see, like, oh, like my mom who struggles with addiction, like, this is how her mind works. Or my brother who's depressed, like, this is what he experiences or whatever. So there's that, but there's also, you know, Emelia, my main character, she has so many wonderful people in her circle that show up and support her. And they're not necessarily, like, sober or alcoholics or drug addicts or whatever, but they really model such a beautiful way of showing up for somebody who's struggling and supporting them long term. So I would say those are the two that it can be really helpful.
- [27:20]
B
Is it easier for you to write as a fictional character in your story than to do it as a memoir? Okay.
- [27:28]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [27:30]
B
What makes it easier for you?
- [27:32]
A
It's a few things. You know, the first is as soon as I made the main character, Amelia, and not me, I felt so much freedom to tell the truth about, just not necessarily the facts. Cause like I said, the facts are all over the place, but the feelings and the thoughts, you know, something like admitting to. I've had that thought. It's a really dark, messed up thought. It's a lot easier when I'm like, well, Amelia had that thought. You know, obviously, it's me. I'm writing it. It came from my brain. But to have it come from Amelia felt like a safety net in a lot of ways. And it almost made it easier to come from it. From, like, a bird's eye view, rather than a. Like, just through my own eyes, if that makes sense. The other thing is that there are really. There are very sensitive topics in this book and sensitive situations, and I. I didn't want. I wanted to protect people's privacy. You know, if people don't know what's real, then they can't say, oh, well, I wonder who that person actually is. You know what I mean? Like, they don't even know if that's a real part of the book. So it's a way of protecting people as well.
- [28:44]
B
What kind of conversations did you have with Amelia during the process of Writing
- [28:48]
A
it, I think more often than not, I was just asking her, like, what is it important people know here? Like, what is it the thing you want people to know? Because for so long, I think many people who struggle with this kind of stuff feel really misunderstood. So it was like, really going inside and asking that part of myself, like, what do we wish people understood about X, Y, and Z? And trying to communicate that through the writing.
- [29:14]
B
At what point did you feel most connected with Amelia? During the process of writing the book,
- [29:19]
A
I would say I was tying. I'm gonna try to tell the story in a way that makes sense. I was. There's this point in the book where she goes on this trip to the place where her mom's side of the family is from. And it's. She's in Italy, and she goes up on Mount Etna. And there are all these. This is based on a real trip that I took with my family. My heritage is part Sicilian. And they go up to Mount Etna, and there are all of these ladybugs. Like, hundreds and hundreds of ladybugs. It's a real thing. And she asked the tour guide, or I asked the tour guide, however you want to look at it, like, why are there so many ladybugs up here? And he said, oh, well, it's like the migration path to Tunisia, but it's also. Ladybugs get caught on the wind and float up, up into the elevation. And I was like, that's so interesting. And so I was writing, like, the last part of this book, and I said. I had said, like, she felt free, like a bird on the wind. Something really, like, simple. And. And then I was like, oh, I could tie it back. And I wrote, she felt free, like a ladybug on the wind. And I just felt so. I was like, wow. Like, I feel so connected to this right now. And as I was writing this and feeling this and thinking about the ladybugs, I felt a little nibble on my arm. And I looked down, and there was a ladybug.
- [30:43]
B
Come on.
- [30:44]
A
My boss. I was like. I started sobbing. I was so freaked out in the best way, you know? And I would say I just felt so connected to whatever this person that I've created to tell this story, whoever she is, I felt so connected to her in that moment.
- [31:02]
B
And. Are you a real person? Because that's a great story. Oh, my gosh.
- [31:06]
A
That's a crazy story. I really. Every time I tell that story, I'm like, they're not gonna believe that happened. There's also, you know, there's also a theme. There's ladybugs and there's shooting stars. Because there's this part in the book where the character is newly sober, and she's driving to this boy's house that she shouldn't be going to. And she asked the universe, she said, if I'm not supposed to go to this boy's house and hook up with him, give me a sign, Any sign. I'm listening. Whatever you want. Like, just show me. And a shooting star shoots across the sky in downtown Austin. And she says, wow, okay, that was really cool. You know, if you could just send me one more sign, I will absolutely go home. And that's a real thing that happened to me. And, you know, the night after I finished the final edits of the book, I was walking out of a restaurant and I saw a shooting star. So just, like, these really, like. And that's kind of what I mean about, like, if you're paying attention, there are these synchronicities in the world that are just incredible.
- [32:04]
B
Now, that's a good story. I like that. I like that a lot. When we. When we started this. The episode together, we alluded to forests and amusement parks.
- [32:13]
A
Yeah.
- [32:14]
B
And people are, like, waiting. They're like, when are we getting to that part? So let's. Let's unpack this, because when we chatted before you, you shared some really interesting perspectives on this, and I think it really feeds into your story as well and the book. So can we unpack the difference between a forest and an amusement park? And let's expand on this. Okay.
- [32:36]
A
100%. This is one of my favorite metaphors in the book. It came from a real conversation when I was getting sober with a therapist I had, because I was, like, literally in rehab, and instead of focusing on getting better, I was like, none of the boys here like me. Like, they like the other girls who, like, are better at doing makeup and, like, xyz. Like, they're so much cooler than me. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because that's what I thought was important when I was in literal rehab, which is so silly. And I was talking to my therapist, and she said, you know, Anna, I think there's something to be said for the difference between a national forest and an amusement park. And this scene is in the book, you know. You know, through Amelia's eyes. And. And I said, what the heck do you mean by that? And she said, you know, I think you are a person who is very natural and very free and very big, and you take up a Lot of space. And you. Your branches are going to grow in the direction they want to grow. And you keep trying to instead force yourself to be an amusement park. Something that's really shiny and exciting and more, like, has more attractions or, you know, whatever it is. And for some reason that. When she made that distinction, I was like, oh, my gosh, I've been trying to be the amusement park when I'm just a national forest. And I started sharing that metaphor with other women, and they were, like, so relieved. They're like, oh, I can just be the forest. How nice. I. I just. It's not that I need to be the amusement park. I just need to find the people that prefer to go to the national forest. And so it's. It's a metaphor that I really try and live by. And, like, if I'm feeling off about, I'm like, am I trying to be an amusement park? Like, how can I just. Just allow myself to be the forest instead?
- [34:35]
B
So instead of being temporary excitement, you're more calm presence.
- [34:42]
A
Yeah. Or like, not trying to say, hey, come ride the rides. Come here. Like, come look at the light. You know, like, not trying to do that, because that's never worked for me.
- [34:53]
B
Interesting. Because when we. When I think of a national forest, I think of unplugging.
- [34:59]
A
Yes.
- [34:59]
B
Calm, in touch with nature.
- [35:02]
A
Yep.
- [35:03]
B
And when I think of amusement park, I think of lights, sound, and excitement and. And then a hangover after. Yeah, after the excitement of an amusement park. Like, the next day, you're like, I ate too much crap and I feel terrible and my head's buzzing.
- [35:22]
A
Right, Totally. And it's not to say that, like, the people who more embody an amusement park, there's anything wrong with them. Right. It's like that. That's just a different kind of person. And I've always tried to be that person, and it's not who I am.
- [35:36]
B
Would you say, as a parallel to that, then, for your own personal journey, that addiction was more of an amusement park than a nursery?
- [35:42]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I think the opposite of addiction is connection. And when I think about an amusement park, I think of a lot of, like, dopamine hits and excitement. And then the national forest is more rooted, more just connected with nature, with the foliage around it, whatever it is. So it's a metaphor that has so many different applications and meanings, which is why I love it so much.
- [36:11]
B
Yeah, I like that. For the reader, then, too, for your book is there's. We talked about some warnings at the beginning, just to kind of get you in the right headspace. I would encourage people that are maybe dealing with some stuff that this would be a great book to read on your good days.
- [36:29]
A
Totally.
- [36:29]
B
A good approach, right?
- [36:30]
A
Yep.
- [36:31]
B
That's great. Put it away. If you're not having a great day, that's. That's fine. But it's a companion for you, right?
- [36:38]
A
Yeah.
- [36:38]
B
Something that'll keep you company on those days when you don't feel like anybody else understands you. Yeah. It's fictionalized, which allows you to kind of put yourself in the story.
- [36:48]
A
Yeah.
- [36:49]
B
So I'm not trying to be Anna. I'm trying to be. I'm listening. I'm reading through Amelia. Right. So there's that safety to it as well. Right. Do you think that there's going to be more stories from Amelia, or is this like a one and done for you for this book?
- [37:05]
A
You know, I. I think Amelia's story is one that I feel like I've told. You know, who knows? Like, it kind of leaves off when she's about my age and at the point of life that I'm in. So who knows? I could live another 15 years of life and be like, I need to tell the rest of Amelia's story. I don't really, but I have some things that are in my head that are. You know, I have a few ideas that I'm just kind of toying with. One kind of is based on a character from Wethersfield Road and kind of telling her story, and then the other two ideas are just kind of random, and I'm just playing with them.
- [37:44]
B
So that's a good sign for readers who fall in love with you and your book. There's so much to love about what you do, but there are potential things coming down the road for us as readers from you.
- [37:55]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. I now that I've fallen in love with it. That's another addiction. Writing is an addiction. Once you start telling stories, you can't stop.
- [38:04]
B
Okay. All right. Because. Yeah, that's. That's the name of my show is Living the Next Chapter. So, yeah, I always kind of like to know where. Where you're going next. And I like on your. On your website, you see a love letter to anyone who's ever felt like they were too much. So one of my questions for all my guests is, what's your love letter to a reader? Your website kind of already answers that, which I like. Do you still feel like you're too much, or do you feel like you're in a different spot?
- [38:34]
A
I feel like I am Too much in the best way. And I think, you know, that that's kind of crazy for me to even be able to say that, like, hearing that come out of my mouth is wild because I've always felt like I needed to dial myself back or, like, just be less or take up less space. And today I can say, like, yeah, I'm a lot. I might not be everyone's cup of tea, but, like, I love who I am and the people who choose to be in my life love who I am, and I wouldn't change it. And I think, like, even if you are too much, like, if they need less, they should go find less, you
- [39:15]
B
know, so when people are dealing with something external as their energy source instead of something that's more internal, yourself and being you and fully you, what's. What's your encouragement for someone who tries to fill in the gaps with relationships, Food, alcohol, sex, all these things, drugs. When. When the external is your. Is your go to. Let's talk to that listener before we go.
- [39:44]
A
Yeah.
- [39:44]
B
The switch from an external resource to an internal resource, kind of. What's your thoughts?
- [39:51]
A
You know, I think so much of healing is not about learning anything new. It's about relearning what we've forgotten. So I really encourage people to remember that they already have everything they need inside of them, a hundred percent. Even if they feel like they don't, it doesn't mean it's gone. It just means they lost it and they need to find it. It's in there, you know? And I would just say, like, the journey from relying on the external to relying on the internal is not linear. There are still days where I start relying on other things to make me okay. It never lasts. It never works. I always have to go back to relying on that internal source of strength. But I would say, like, it's not going to feel natural at first and it's not going to feel comfortable at first. Something that's really important to remember when you're making that shift is that discomfort is not a red light, it's a green light. Discomfort means we're learning, we're growing, we're developing. So, yeah, that's what comes to mind for that.
- [40:57]
B
As we go. I have one more question for the end. Talk about your website, because it's gorgeous and everyone needs to go check it out. I love great websites. I'm just one of my. I'm addicted to great websites, Anna. Okay. I gotta admit it. Sorry.
- [41:12]
A
That is a very safe addiction. I love that.
- [41:15]
B
Okay. All right. Okay. So I'm addicted to your website. Talk about your site, what we can find as people coming to your site, and then I have a question to wrap up at the end.
- [41:24]
A
Absolutely, yeah. So you can find me at anna a n n a-rights anna-rates.com. you can also find me on Instagram @merennialauthoranna. That's also my name on substack, TikTok, and Facebook.
- [41:38]
B
Beautiful. Okay. What is your. What is your Ladybug shooting star moment for someone listening? A kind of a directional. A. A kind of a. A moment for someone listening that helps them to realize they're on the right path or that a change is in their future? They can be better. Let's. Let's kind of. I want. I'm gonna go sit with the audience right now and listen to your response, but I'd love for you to talk to the person listening, because the one thing about podcasting is that people are listening to us with headphones and nobody knows what we're listening to right now. So we can say anything we want to this person to encourage them without outing them in front of their friends and family, that maybe there's an addiction, there's something going on in their life that they're really battling with, and they feel completely unplugged from the people around them, and they feel so alone. So from your perspective and your story, I'm going to go sit with the listeners, but talk to the listener right now. There's listening in the privacy of their own headphones. Give them something that a. The book's going to help them with, which is great, but speak to them directly. What's your message to them? What's the. What's the Ladybug? What's the shooting star right now, before we go to really connect with the person that's been listening to our conversation so far, I'm going to go sit with the audience. It's your show, so here you go. It's all yours. Anna, what do you want to say to the listeners listening to you right now?
- [43:03]
A
I think the thing that comes to mind is that, you know, we as human beings are inherently lovable. Whatever it is you're going through, whatever it is you're feeling, whatever thoughts you're having, like, whatever it is, like, you are just lovable. You know, I heard once that there's nothing you can do to be any less lovable by. Like what. Whatever it is you believe in, whether it's the universe or a higher being or whatever it is, there's nothing you can do to make that thing, that entity, love you any less. But the flip side of that is there's also nothing you can do to make that being love you anymore. And I think that is so important because you don't have to perform. You don't have to be good or better or prove anything. Like the love that you deserve just is. There's nothing you can do to get more of it or less of it. It's just inherent worth that you carry as a human being. And I think when we can get really right sized with that is when the magic starts to happen.
- [44:13]
B
And that's when the ladybugs start floating up into the air and shooting stars appear for you.
- [44:19]
A
Exactly.
- [44:20]
B
Anna, thank you so much for doing this. You. You are a bundle of energy. You light up the room. I'm so thankful to have time with you and to see you on your journey. A lot of hope comes through the microphone and through the camera having time with you. So I'm encouraging everyone to go buy your book, leave you a great review so that more people come and fall in love with you as well. I am now addicted to Anna. So there you go. That's a thing.
- [44:50]
A
The feeling is so mutual.
- [44:52]
B
Come on. Right. Thank you for. Thank you for writing this story to be so. Even though you're writing through Amelia's context and her. Her story, to share your story through her, it's amazing. So thank you for what you do and who you serve and how many people are going to be impacted by your book. It's incredible. So keep sharing your story, keep encouraging people, because you've got a great message to share.
- [45:20]
A
Thank you so much and thank you for having me. This has been amazing.
- [45:24]
B
Excellent. Everyone, as always in the show notes, go check out Anna's spectacular website. Go hug a ladybug if you can find one, and go look at the stars tonight and think of Anna. And as you read her book, share it with five people so more people will come and fall in love with it as well. Anna, thank you so much.
- [45:44]
A
Thank you.
- [45:49]
B
Hey, thank you so much again for pressing play. As you've heard, great guests on the show. And one thing you didn't hear in this conversation is what? What did you not hear? Think about it for a second. That's right. Not a single solitary commercial for a mattress or a supplement or whatever you call it. No. Why? Because we don't want to break up the conversation with commercials. So the fact that you're still here means that you are a fan of the show, I'm assuming. So if you want to help to keep the podcast going and to make me feel really happy? All I really care about is coffee. Okay. I just got to be honest. I love coffee. I'm drinking one right now. Starting to get cold. I need. I need to warm it up. Helping us with our Buy me a coffee link over at living the next chapter.com and also in the show notes helps kind of keep the lights on around here. Remember, I'm doing this for free. I. I'm paying for everything, so I would love to have a little coffee donation. You know, even five bucks kind of fills up my cup. And I would love to enjoy a coffee from you. So if you're interested, again, thank you for listening, but you can use our Buy me a coffee link and fill up the cup. Thanks for being here.