← Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
Living The Next Chapter: Candid Conversations with Authors and Writers for Readers Searching for a New Read
E716 - Richard DeVeau - In Plain Sight - In Washington, nothing is what it seems
00:56:04
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- [00:01]
Richard Devoe
And it's funny you should talk about the sense of smell. In my first draft of Lights out, it wasn't always the first sense I was describing. When people were seeing what they were feeling, what they were saying, I found myself, Ah, but I'm missing this fifth sense, which is probably one of the strongest, particularly for humans, particularly with memory connection. Right. And I was going, going back and adding what they were smelling, what would be, what would be theirs there, what would be the, you know, what would they be smelling in addition to this? The smell of basalt there. But now as I'm writing, I find that it, it's, it's, it's more a natural thing for me to include, because it is, and it does. It paints a full picture.
- [00:53]
David
Everybody, welcome back to Living the Next Chapter. And I say welcome back because when I get a guest on the podcast that is fun to talk to, we have a great conversation. I always hope that they're going to keep writing and they do, and then they come back. So that's exciting for me. Richard's back to talk about his second book, and it's in Plain Sight. I have a copy of it. I'm showing it people on the camera because I'm proud to have a copy and add it to my library of amazing guests who've been on the show. But Richard's back to talk about this book, catch up from our last time together. I think it was episode 525. When was. When Richard was here last. I pulled it up on the screen. I didn't remember that number, but Richard was here Last on episode 525. You want to go back and listen to that conversation as well. But Richard's back. Richard, welcome back to Living the Next Chapter. Glad to have you here, my friend.
- [01:46]
Richard Devoe
David, it is delightful to be here. I am so looking forward to spending this time with you. I so enjoyed our time a year ago, and it's an honor, actually. It really is an honor.
- [01:58]
David
Well, I'm glad you remember me because you're like this big, fancy author now, and this podcaster has time with you, which is exciting. So I'm glad you're back. This is good. Awesome. So, Richard, for people who haven't heard episode 525 yet, let people know where you are in this big world of ours.
- [02:16]
Richard Devoe
I live in a suburb of Chicago about 50 miles west of the city. And the city is called Batavia, Illinois, and it runs along the Fox River. It's part of the Fox River Valley, so about a block away from the Fox river, which eventually ends up in the Mississippi somewhere.
- [02:38]
David
You were on back in episode 525 to talk about Lights out, right in that book and that story for those people that are meeting you maybe for the first time today, can you give us a little insight into that first book? We're going to talk about the new one, but a little background on that one too.
- [02:56]
Richard Devoe
Well, Lights out was inspired by something that my brother had said about 10 years ago. He asked me to help him. He lives on Cape Cod, so he's been refurbishing. Back then, he was refurbishing a lighthouse and he asked me if there are any companies still in business today making the lights for the top of the lighthouse. The current distance that the light went out was, I think, three miles. And they wanted it to go out to the original 13 miles that, that it was and was built in the 1800s. Wow. So I found some companies out here in the Midwest, oddly enough, because there are a lot of lighthouses here on the Great Lakes. In fact, I think they're more in the Midwest than there are in either coast now. They hooked him up with a company and that began to kind of spark the idea for me. You know, lighthouses, they have this wonderful history of, of being guides and, and a, and a light and keep, you know, provision from danger and foghorns, mostly most of them have foghorns. So, you know, sailors have, have found them to be a comfort and a guide. And the way my twisted brain works is, is, well, how could somebody use a lighthouse to do something bad? And so that was kind of where the, the idea kind of germinated. I find my antagonist does some bad things from a couple of different lighthouses in different parts of the country. So he actually shoots missiles from them.
- [04:34]
David
Well, that's, that's not a great idea. No. Right. Yeah.
- [04:38]
Richard Devoe
It's kind of counter to what, you know, their, their history and their heritage. But, you know, I, I, I can't, my own brain, it's just, that's, that's where it goes. Yeah, sometimes.
- [04:54]
David
No. No lighthouses were harmed in the making of that.
- [04:57]
Richard Devoe
No lighthouses were harmed.
- [04:59]
David
Okay.
- [04:59]
Richard Devoe
The lighthouses were actually named and the locations of them I, I selected because of their proximity to other things. One at Houston and, and one in Maryland that was on the, on the Chesapeake.
- [05:15]
David
Do you had a love affair for lighthouses in the past too, then yourself?
- [05:19]
Richard Devoe
I have really enjoyed them. You know, as I said, I'm from New England, so lighthouses are kind of really part of that heritage. The fact that my brother Was actually refurbishing one was. Was pretty cool. And I remember some stories as a kid. There was a movie, I can't remember the name of the movie, and it was about some pirates who set up. They. They shut the lighthouse down. Of course, back then it was just putting the, the lamp out and they set up a false lighthouse on some rocks. They moved closer to the rocks and set it up and set up this fire that looked like a lighthouse. And I remember it caused the ship to crash and the pirates were able to, you know, kind of get the, the booty. It made a big impression and it was probably. I was maybe 10.
- [06:13]
David
Well, that's false advertising, right? To move. To move. And yet your back year ends in advertising, so that would make sense. So. Yeah, that's, that's like, that's. It's interesting. I love, I love. They're so mysterious. They are lighthouses and stuff. They're just silently sitting there for the most part and you're just. Yeah, they're like, do they serve a purpose? They still do.
- [06:36]
Richard Devoe
And they, they do, you know.
- [06:37]
David
Yeah, they're romantic too. It's a little bit of romance part of that as well. So.
- [06:41]
Richard Devoe
Yeah, if you think about the lighthouse keeper, you know, it's a very solid. Some of them, you know, some of the keepers took their wives, some of them left the wives home. And it, it's. Some were set up and, and families lived. And typically there was a little house that was next to the lighthouse or maybe the house. The lighthouse was part of the house, but it was a. And they were typically set up on the coasts. Right. So you had, you know, lots of wind and fall weather. It was, it was, it was not a great place to live. It took a hearty soul, particularly if you had to go back and forth to the mainland for provisions.
- [07:27]
David
Right.
- [07:27]
Richard Devoe
I mean, it was, it was a calling.
- [07:29]
David
Sounds like a great place to write a book, maybe do a podcast.
- [07:32]
Richard Devoe
Hey, you know, I don't know about that. In fact, I, I didn't put this in the first book, but I had initially my character, my main character, Eve, when she was in the lighthouse, that, that she. That ended up kind of being. Toward the, the end of the book, I had her thinking about, wow, this would be a great place to, to come and paint because she's an artist. Right. But I, I kind of left it in the final edit. There wasn't a place for it. So I, Yeah, kind of. I kind of took that out. So. But. But you're right, there is a lot of mystery There, there's some intrigue and it's, it's been used. You know, they've been using movies for that reason right there for that.
- [08:16]
David
Yeah.
- [08:16]
Richard Devoe
Mysterious.
- [08:17]
David
So now this is interesting too because, you know, it was about a year ago that we met to talk about that book for Lights Out. Now you're back for In Plain Sight. It's for authors that are listening. How do you, how do you know when it's time to release the next book without kind of cannibalizing the sales of the first book? Like, what do you have in your mind, kind of a gap of time where it feels like it's about the right time for now to, to get on and talk about the next book in the series without hurting or harming. Yeah. What you've already done.
- [08:51]
Richard Devoe
Well, there's the, the, a lot of authors, particularly those who, who we, we all tend to really enjoy, try and keep to a book a year rhythm. Okay. Some like, I think Mark Graney, he had, I don't know if he still does, but he was, he was pushing up 2 a year and, and that's a, just an enormous undertaking and a lot of work, but that seems to be a good amount. Particularly I, and I would say, you know, Lights out was my, was my first book. You know, it was my, my debut. And for new authors, if, if when your second book comes out and then your third, you're beginning to gain or pick up some momentum from readers and what happens with a. Because iftant is going to be a series, I'm now writing the third. So what you'll find is, you know, people may, may pick up the second or the third book, they like it, then they'll go back and read your earlier work or, you know, I, and I've done this myself where I, you know, I read writers who, who have a series and I'll pick up any one of them and then, you know, you find you really like them and then you start, you know, reading others. I'll tend to try and go sequential sequentially sometimes because I, I'm always interested, particularly when I was writing my first book. In other authors, first novels, it was, it's a good way to see, you know, they're what they gave birth to first time out. Yeah. And then it's always intriguing to, to read what they're currently writing and sometimes you can, sometimes you can see some growth and other times you go, wow, you know, their first book was phenomenal. And so is this 13th book that they've just finished.
- [10:56]
David
Do you think the subsequent books after that first book are kind of reliant on that first book and kind of how that first book does. Or do you think they're kind of standalone?
- [11:08]
Richard Devoe
From a writer's perspective, they probably should be standalone because you can't assume someone's going to read the books in order. So while in Lights out, it's complete, I leave a little window open for something needs to be discovered and found out that takes place in the second book. But while writing the second book, it was important for me to realize that I can't depend on people having read the first. This may be the only. The place where they start, so it has to stand alone. So I had to find a way to bring in elements that happened in the first book, in the second book in a way that. That brings people up to speed. Here's what happened. You're not going to get all the details that you took 250 pages to cover. Right. But hit all the high notes so that there's. There's a point of reference. And so then you move the story on, because the second book, In Plain Sight, kind of you. You know, we now discover members of the cabal who were left out of the first book, who kind of wanted to hide it. And.
- [12:19]
David
Okay.
- [12:19]
Richard Devoe
The second book is about finding those folks out.
- [12:23]
David
As I'm reading through my copy, which I'm thrilled to have, right off the bat, we're kind of introduced to a lot of military reference. Military story inside, behind the scenes from a military perspective. Your knowledge of that world. Is that something you had to learn? Is that something you knew? Like, how did you. How do you know those kind of details?
- [12:50]
Richard Devoe
It's something that has always been intriguing to me. I haven't served, but as a kid, you know, for me, the comic books that I collected were all World War II comic books. I was just from a very early age. I mean, I grew up in the 50s, which wasn't too long after World War II. And I had friends. We'd play army, and I had some. I had one friend who had an actual German helmet that we all wear, even though we all. We didn't want to be Germans. But the helmet was cool. Wow. And so what I've also done is. Is a lot of, you know, putting my character, making her an Afghan that I've. I've done a fair amount of reading and research there. In fact, I reference a couple of the. The sources that I've used in. In the acknowledgments in. In. In Plain Sight. Yeah. So it's really the wonderful thing about the, the web, you know, and Internet research is, is you don't have to go to the library anymore. You don't have to go someplace else. It's all at your fingertips. And anytime I needed to know what was the caliber of this weapon, and then, you know, or you know, you just, it's, it's all right there.
- [14:11]
David
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Richard Devoe
Beautified. And I actually love the research part of, of what I do. There's just something very fulfilling about learning something new about something. Right.
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David
Yeah.
- [14:22]
Richard Devoe
Learning for its own sake and then being able to, to, to, to put that into the book. I, I find that the whole process of writing is what I enjoy.
- [14:32]
David
Yeah.
- [14:33]
Richard Devoe
And I think we might have talked about this last time. I'm, I'm also a fine art painter. And when I started writing Lights out, when I, as soon as I discovered that the process was the same as painting, I was, I, I found the groove. Very easily do something to a canvas, it wants something back. You begin to have a dialogue with the work. You kind of get absorbed in the process. The finished painting is nice, but it's all about solving those problems. It's having that engagement with the work. And I found the same to be true when I started writing novels. I, I was enamored. It was a, it was just kind of this big aha moment. It's like, ah, yeah, I know what this feels like.
- [15:19]
David
Right.
- [15:19]
Richard Devoe
Because I had been there for 35 years.
- [15:22]
David
So. Yeah, you're, you're leveraging different senses in the art of creating and, and painting. And what I get from your book is you're also bringing in other senses as well. So. Yeah, you talk and you talk in the beginning there a little bit about the smells.
- [15:38]
Richard Devoe
Yes.
- [15:39]
David
Of, you know, going to that other. To another country and the smell of tires, spices and garbage, kind of rotting garbage, you know, like I, I already have a visual and a smell reference by adding those three together. And I think that puts you into the moment as a reader.
- [15:58]
Richard Devoe
It does. And, and it's funny, you should, you should talk about the sense of smell. In my first draft of, of, of Lights out, it wasn't always the first sense I was describing when people were seeing what they were feeling, what they were saying. I found myself. Ah. But I'm missing this fifth sense, which, which is probably one of the strongest, particularly for, for humans, particularly with memory connection. Right, right. And I was, I was going back and adding what they were smelling, what would be, what would be theirs, what would be the, you know, what would they be smelling in addition to this, the smell of the salt there and see. But now as I'm writing, I find that it, it's, it's, it's more a natural thing for me to include because it is and it does, it paints a full picture.
- [16:50]
David
So where did that reference come from? Those three elements? Like do you know, do you remember writing that part? And going.
- [16:57]
Richard Devoe
I remember writing this part and that was part of some of the research because I, there's the two books, the names of which I, I is actually.
- [17:10]
David
This is called Being Putting youg on the Spot.
- [17:12]
Richard Devoe
Yeah. One and two of, Of Modern War and Ancient Land, I think it's called. And then there's another, another book written by somebody who served in the airborne in Afghanistan. So it's his day to day account.
- [17:31]
David
Yeah.
- [17:31]
Richard Devoe
And in one of those two books somebody mentioned, you know, when they went to Kabul, you know, the thing that hit them was the, the smell of burning tires, rotting garbage and, and Middle Eastern spices. You know that.
- [17:45]
David
Yeah.
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Richard Devoe
And then that, that caused the other one to say. Yeah, for me it's, it's the smell of burning hair, cordite, you know, and, and gunpowder.
- [17:56]
David
Wow.
- [17:57]
Richard Devoe
Because what happens for all of us, that when you smell something that you may, let's say, you know, the smell of, of some baking bread or something. Right. That's just so powerful. It evokes memory.
- [18:13]
David
Yeah.
- [18:13]
Richard Devoe
You know, for a lot of us it's, it's something that happened in our childhood or, or during the holiday season.
- [18:20]
David
Right.
- [18:21]
Richard Devoe
You know, for me, in the second book, I talk about this. You know, my, my, my heritage is, is French Canadian. So my grandmother would, would make a French Canadian pork pie called a tortilla. And she would make every Christmas and New Year. And the smell of that, the ingredients cooking in the pan and the, and the, and the pies baking in the oven. You know, I'm back there, I'm, I'm in my mother's kitchen. I'm in it.
- [18:47]
David
Right.
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Richard Devoe
So smells have this wonderful memory connection.
- [18:52]
David
The one thing too I wanted to kind of jump on for the authors listening is I think some authors, especially new authors, kind of wrestle with dialogue when they're writing. When I read your book, I feel like I'm sitting there with these people, like I'm part of the conversation. How, how do you develop the skill of writing dialogue the way that you've done it in, in your books?
- [19:17]
Richard Devoe
It's interesting that that's, it's something I've not wrestled with. I know a lot of writers do. I Think the tendency for a lot of writers is to make people's dialogue sound like writing, and that's just not the way people talk. Right. I've been a big fan of just when you're in a group setting, you know, whether it's a church service or, you know, I, I, I'm a gallery curator, so we, I'm, I'm in a gallery opening every, every month. And you just listen to conversations and, and the rhythm, the way people talk. People don't often talk in complete sentences. They'll start a sentence, you'll get three or four words in pause and shift to something else, you know, so trying to get a rhythm of speech. I would say that probably one of the best things to, to, to do that is just to, to really tune your ear to the way people speak.
- [20:12]
David
Right.
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Richard Devoe
Or, you know, I think all of us have been around other folks long enough to probably inherently kind of have a feel for how people speak, but it can't, it can't sound like writing. Nobody speaks in a, in a perfect sentence, you know, with, yeah, with, with all the punctuation and, you know, the correct sentence structure, we, we tend to hem and ha and jump. So the having that ear. I think what helped me too, is being an advertising copywriter. I've, I've had quite a few years of experience writing radio and writing video. And so you, you, you learn it can't be stiff, it can't come across as plastic. It's got to sound real. So I think that was good training ground for me. I also have written a couple of screenplays. And screenplays, really, if there's anything that's about dialogue, it's a screenplay. If you look at a screenplay, it's really very little description, but it's all dialogue. That's a great exercise. In fact, for, for writers who want to kind of get a better feel for writing dialogue, I would recommend that you pick up and read screenplays, and they're available free. It used to be back in, I think, the 80s when I started really reading them, you had to go to Script City and you had to order them, and it showed up and you got printed scripts. These days you go online and you just Google, you know, free screenplays, and you can download these things and, you know, just look at movies that you
- [22:08]
David
like
- [22:11]
Richard Devoe
and, and you'll get a sense for, for how people speak, because screenplays, if anything, you know, they do that well.
- [22:19]
David
Yeah, I've had conversation with people too, and they're like, open the screenplay and then play the Movie. And watch. Watch what's happening in the screenplay and watch what's on the screen.
- [22:27]
Richard Devoe
Yes.
- [22:28]
David
And kind of like. And go as a cross reference and go.
- [22:30]
Richard Devoe
Oh, yes.
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David
Oh, okay. Now that, that the two go. Going together really is a great education piece.
- [22:37]
Richard Devoe
It really is. And if. If you get an earlier version of a script, something that. That is not the final version of. Of what was shot, that's also very informative for writers. Years ago I picked up the script for Roxan. Steve Martin's Roxan.
- [22:57]
David
Yeah, yeah.
- [22:58]
Richard Devoe
And I remember reading. Because it was an earlier version and there's a scene where he has to tell 20 nose jokes in the bar. I don't know if you remember that.
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David
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Richard Devoe
The guy throws the dart. He's got come up with 20. Well, the screenplay only had maybe six or seven.
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David
Oh, no.
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Richard Devoe
And I don't even know if they were the final ones. But it was very insightful for me to see the process. It's like, ah, it's not all finished as. As you know, in one sitting. Right. That it's a refining process and that. That was a great lesson in and of itself.
- [23:32]
David
Yeah.
- [23:32]
Richard Devoe
Right. And also something to. For. For all writers to keep in mind that you may have a first draft that, trust me, you're not done yet.
- [23:41]
David
I heard that about like the Princess Bride where they have the script, but then they just let Billy Crystal just be Billy Crystal and just turn the cameras on and said, well, let's. We did the. Rick, we did the script. Now let's just go for a fun run.
- [23:56]
Richard Devoe
Well.
- [23:57]
David
And just let you go. Right. And you. And that's what actually ended up in the movie.
- [24:01]
Richard Devoe
Yeah.
- [24:01]
David
Not really the scripted words that he was supposed to say, but just him going off and being him. That's interesting.
- [24:09]
Richard Devoe
Which I. I read a piece that. That they actually had the Wesley who was dead.
- [24:17]
David
Yeah.
- [24:17]
Richard Devoe
To put a dummy in there because. Because the actor kept breaking up laughing.
- [24:21]
David
Yeah.
- [24:22]
Richard Devoe
They had to keep having camera crew leave because they kept breaking up laughing, you know.
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David
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:31]
Richard Devoe
A testament to a comic genius.
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David
Yeah, yeah. I wonder if they left out some of those nose jokes in that script just to let Steve just be Steve. I'm sure he could come up with 20 jokes off the top of his head. Right.
- [24:43]
Richard Devoe
Yeah. Because he was. He was the screenwriter for that as well.
- [24:46]
David
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:47]
Richard Devoe
He wrote the replay as well as, you know, was the main character.
- [24:50]
David
So interesting. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Dialogue, I think, is one thing that maybe authors are struggling with. So there's just some great Ideas. The other thing, too, I like is your characters. You can tell they have a way of how they talk by how you've written out what they've said. You're not writing it out exactly the way it's supposed to be spelt Right. Or worded. It's because you can tell there's this character and then there's this character and this character. They're an editing nightmare. As far as how. Trying to. You have to slow down. It's like a speed bump where you're like, wait a minute. What did they say? Oh, sounded out. Okay, now that makes sense. So your characters, even in how you've written their words, also show elements of their character in their speech, you know, as well, which is another. Another tool.
- [25:41]
Richard Devoe
I think it is another tool, especially in my case, where he's got a Boston accent.
- [25:46]
David
Yeah.
- [25:49]
Richard Devoe
Having, you know, being. Having been born and raised in. In Boston, I know that accent well. And it is. Even though I know it well, it's. It's hard to write it. It's hard to write it phonetically. You know, ours become W's.
- [26:07]
David
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:08]
Richard Devoe
And then there are some R's that really aren't in the original word.
- [26:13]
David
Yeah, yeah, I like that. Okay, now, I do have a question. Yes. Because in the story, and everyone's gonna have to go buy a copy, and I don't think we're giving anything away here, but in the story, Eve is. You've described Eve dressed one day, and she has a University of Toronto sweater on.
- [26:32]
Richard Devoe
Yes.
- [26:33]
David
What. Is there a. Is there a thing behind the fact
- [26:37]
Richard Devoe
that she's wearing that specific University of Toronto? All right, Well, I. You know, what you'll find as you read later is we get a lot of. More of her background. Her ancestor was one of the. The French founders of Quebec, the Orleans in particular.
- [26:59]
David
Yeah. Okay.
- [27:00]
Richard Devoe
And so she's. She's. She's Canadian, which, you know, my. My grandparents. Both. Both sides, one back and the other in Nova Scotia. So my. My own roots to Canada in particular are. Are quite strong.
- [27:17]
David
There's. There's a lot of touch points that mirror you as a person. Right.
- [27:23]
Richard Devoe
The art. Yes.
- [27:24]
David
The connection to Canada.
- [27:26]
Richard Devoe
Yes.
- [27:27]
David
Right. There's a. There's a bunch of different touch points that I'm like, wow. Right? I can see them knowing you and having a conversation in the past. And then reading this. I'm like, oh, I see Richard here on this page. I see Richard. A little bit of Richard over here.
- [27:40]
Richard Devoe
Right.
- [27:41]
David
I like that.
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Richard Devoe
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It's. It's it's one of the things that, that I think every writer will, will probably do, whether consciously or unconsciously. You know, there, there are things that. And I, I find and I'm doing. I'm very conscious about that. And I want to pay homage, you know, to my, to my background, to my heritage, because.
- [28:00]
David
Yes.
- [28:01]
Richard Devoe
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty proud of it. I, I've joked as, you know, Double Dagger Books and Warpath Press, they're, they're Canadian as well.
- [28:11]
David
Yeah.
- [28:12]
Richard Devoe
And I've more than once have said, I don't know, I'm thinking about moving your way.
- [28:21]
David
Well, we've gladly accept you back. No problem at all there. Yeah.
- [28:27]
Richard Devoe
Things look crazy here in the streets.
- [28:30]
David
I haven't noticed. I have no idea what you're talking about. No idea. So let's, let's get into In Plain Sight, then, a little bit more of the story for the reader. I want them to, to walk away from this conversation going, this is my next new read for the holiday season and, oh, and beyond. We were recording this near the end of the year, but I'm excited for this to come out. Let's talk about the story and give us a little bit of background about maybe how this book has a standalone. This is kind of the story arc for somebody that's reading. Can we kind of get into a little bit about what's going to happen for us as a reader?
- [29:06]
Richard Devoe
Sure. You know, the, the second book picks up kind of where the first one left off. And there was a, an act of domestic terrorism that takes place in the first book. It was horrific. A lot of people were killed and what I have dubbed the Greater Boston Massacre. And it impacted the country. It impacted very much the world. So the second book, while three people who were involved in that horrendous tragedy were discovered and were dispatched, there were others that we are mentioned in the first book. Not known who they are, but only known perhaps by their role. One was a senator, one was a, was a, was a judge, and another was somebody, quote, unquote, close to the President or in the President's inner circle. And that's all we know. And in the second book, Eve is. That's, that's her task. In the end of the first book, the President reaches out to her and says, I need you to work with me, me, only me, directly, to find out who's behind this. And so they do that. She. She moves to D.C. and takes an apartment there so that she can, she can work closely with the President. And she begins to, to, to do that. There's, there's another character that's introduced who used to be, who served with her in Afghanistan. And she, and he is, is very, very intelligent. She's looking for, for an ally with somebody with boots on the ground, you know, who can, who can be with her and help her. And so he's a long trusted comrade and, and friend who also works for the CIA. In fact, Eve was responsible for, for getting him the job at the CIA. She, she brought him to, to the CIA's detention. He's described as Einstein in Arnold Schwartz, Arnold Schwarzenegger's body. Very intelligent, but, you know, 6 foot 3, 230 pounds, you know, brain and Ron that the Taliban, you know, deal both in spades. So she, he, he becomes a great ally. There's also a love interest that comes up later in the first book. Her. I, I won't give too much away, but there's a love interest there that, you know, the tables are turned. It's a, it's a, It's a big twist. And as a result, she's a bit jaded for relationships, but. But meets this, this individual. I won't kind of divulge much more than in terms of circumstances under which they meet.
- [32:19]
David
Right.
- [32:21]
Richard Devoe
And then he becomes part of her, her life and.
- [32:25]
David
Okay. All right.
- [32:27]
Richard Devoe
So that's basically the, the thread that runs through it is, is she is looking for the remaining folks who are behind this tragedy to find that there's, there's an additional conspiracy that they're still looking to gain control. While the avenue that they were pursuing before, which was to create a law to, to wield power, was, Was shut down by Eve, they have found another way to do it.
- [32:59]
David
Okay.
- [32:59]
Richard Devoe
And it includes an additional conspiracy that gets discovered and shut down.
- [33:06]
David
Okay. So what have you learned about Eve and her character in In Plain Sight that you didn't necessarily fully kind of realize when you wrote Lights Out? Like, what. How has she developed, how has she changed for you as a writer?
- [33:22]
Richard Devoe
I got to, to really. I had an early reader of, of In Plain Sight, a good friend of mine. We, We've known each other for 40 years. I think he was. Graduated Harvard with an English degree. And, and it's just brilliant. He's also just a wonderful. He was a pastor of a church for 30 or 40 years, and I gave him the early draft and, and he asked me some really great questions like would Eve really feel this way, the situation. Because it was great to have his outside in perspective. Right. Any writer you kind of become engaged in a character or the characters in the story, in the arc of the story. And sometimes you can have some blinders on as you do that. So that. Those notes that he gave me and, and in the editing parlance, it was. They were development notes. So it was a development edit which is, you know, kind of more story structure. It wasn't so much, you know, sentence structure or, you know, proofreading kind of things. And his take on that got me to really think a little bit harder about. Ah, you know. No, she wouldn't respond that way. In fact, she'd be angry for all these other reasons what I. The second book and spending time with her and you'll see, I develop delve more into her background, to her experience, to, to more of her thought life. I, I'm a. I've been married for five decades and I have three adult daughters. I have a pretty decent handle on how women think, although they still surprise me. So what. What I've discovered is, is essentially there are. We are very, very, very similar. Men and women are, are more alike than they are different, I think. And it just, you know, I think people who can't really understand women just. I don't get it. Yeah. I don't get it. It's.
- [35:49]
David
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Richard Devoe
You know, it's either they're not paying attention.
- [35:53]
David
Yeah.
- [35:53]
Richard Devoe
Or they don't care to.
- [35:55]
David
Right.
- [35:56]
Richard Devoe
And so that, that it. So it was easy for me to begin to develop more of a thought life and how she felt and, and, and how she reacted to certain things. Plus, you know, her training comes into play. I mean she being Special Forces and being CIA, she was trained in a very specific way, what they call seer training. S E R E, which is survivability, evasion, resistance, escape. So they're, they undergo some pretty intense, intense training. Torture and all this other stuff. She's pretty tough. I mean, it doesn't take. You're not too many pages in your eyes how tough she is. Yeah. But by the same token, she's an artist and I did that intentionally. And if my character initially when I began to think about the book was going to be a man and I was going to make him an artist as well. I think that tradition of a warrior who's an artist goes back to ancient Japan, if not even further.
- [37:05]
David
Right.
- [37:05]
Richard Devoe
Oh, you have samurai who were lethal and deadly in the, in the skill of, of killing people, but they practiced poetry and, and painting. They understood that leaning much too far one way makes you less than human. So this balance, this Yin and yang, of, of, you know, a warrior who, who also was an artist is. I, I think again, it's, it's a very ancient tradition that, that I think pays it. It also would. It's wonderful because it enables you to make a more complex character. Right, right.
- [37:49]
David
Yeah. I can't imagine a samurai shopping at Hobby Lobby or Michael's or something, getting some paints and brushes. It's like, whoa. Wow.
- [37:58]
Richard Devoe
You.
- [37:59]
David
Wow. Okay. All right. Yeah. That's very interesting dichotomy there between the two of those different things, but the balance. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a very interesting point.
- [38:10]
Richard Devoe
Yes. And in fact, I think in those, in the second book, she's mulling over an op that she just accomplished and doing that while she's painting because it engages another part of her brain. Right. She's replaying everything from time from a distance, but also engaged in this activity that enables her to kind of think through what. What you did, didn't do. Did she do the right thing? Did you know? And, and replace it
- [38:48]
David
in Plain Sight for everyone is the next in the series. And you know how we do this, Richard? I like finding out from you. Then you're gonna keep writing. You've kind of mentioned already that you're working on the next one. Are you thinking about another one year gap roughly between this launch and book three? Is that kind of your. In your, I think, horizon?
- [39:10]
Richard Devoe
I, I think that's the rhythm that seems to be a, an achievable one for me.
- [39:16]
David
Okay. Yeah.
- [39:18]
Richard Devoe
I'll probably, you know, if, if, if things go as they have gone, I think I'll be, I'll complete it. And that's like final, final draft probably by this summer. And then I submit it to the publisher and ends the process, you know, so that's, that's my hope. That's, that's my goal. Each, I'm finding each subsequent one a little bit more challenging because I've got to put her in different settings and different situations and. But it's, it's, it's still as much fun.
- [39:58]
David
It's interesting. I had an author on recently and he's retired FBI. He was stationed in Thailand and he talked about the training that the FBI has to go through. And they have a, like a, a fake town and they have different buildings and they put the agents through training. They have hired actors who live in this or work in this town and inhabit this town and they have to go execute like search warrants. They have some actors that will give you a hard Time. Some will be complicit, but it's. And then they, they watch you, they watch how you interact with the public. And like they have a pharmacy and a theater and a courthouse and all these. And they have streets and it's this whole mini town on. In the training facility. Wow. For the FBI. And I'm like, what an interesting, like, coming away from that, hearing that, that was part of his asking about his training, I'm like, I'm thinking, what a great place to put a story.
- [40:59]
Richard Devoe
Yeah.
- [41:00]
David
Like an actual crime that happens at a test facility full of FBI agents.
- [41:06]
Richard Devoe
Yeah.
- [41:07]
David
And a real crime actually happened, not a fake one, not a staged one. And I'm like, oh, I'm just like, I'm listening to this guy talking. I'm like, oh, should I ask him to write that book? Because I would, that would be so interesting to hear that kind of thing. Right. So. Well, I love that you're pulling from these different perspectives that are not uniquely yours.
- [41:26]
Richard Devoe
Right.
- [41:26]
David
It's not like you did all the things that your character did, but you, you do the research, you bring your curiosity to the character.
- [41:35]
Richard Devoe
Yes.
- [41:36]
David
And then you create the story. And I love that. That's kind of your approach. Yeah.
- [41:41]
Richard Devoe
And it's interesting. I, I, There are some great authors out there. I think Jack Carr is another. He actually was a Navy seal. And so his, his novels come from real world experience.
- [41:55]
David
Right.
- [41:55]
Richard Devoe
And there's a lot of authenticity and you get to know the, the grain of the bullet that he's using, you know. But also, I think this whole genre, you could probably say, was started, you know, by Tom Clancy. Tom Clancy never served. And his, his books are just rife with real, authentic, the technology, the weaponry, you know, the, the ranks, the, the attitudes that, that the military has with, with themselves and with the public. I mean, this was a lot of what he wrote was prior to the Internet. So he would actually go to all these places and he would interview all these people and he did all the legwork, but it wasn't firsthand experience for him. So it's possible for anybody. See, this is my, my philosophy is the, the old writing adage, write what you know is like. No, write what you love. Because if you write what you love, you can pick up what you don't know, but you can't fake passion, because if you don't love what you're writing, it's going to come through. So write what you love, and then you can always learn what you don't know.
- [43:17]
David
That's good.
- [43:18]
Richard Devoe
Yeah, I like that, that's, I've, I've, I believe that. And, and I have felt that for, for the longest time.
- [43:28]
David
Yeah.
- [43:29]
Richard Devoe
Because quite frankly, you know, how, how boring is it to write what, you know, I mean, I mean, unless, you know, you've, you led an incredible life and, you know, you know, just served several different careers and, and yeah, all of this life experience, to draw from even that, you know, is going to at some point lack some authenticity because you, you still need to get inside people's heads and. Yeah, right. How people think and how people feel. Empathy is huge. You know, while, while members of, of my government have lambasted empathy publicly, it is clearly, I think it's the most effective tool that makes any creative person do what they do. And it also makes us human.
- [44:26]
David
Yeah.
- [44:27]
Richard Devoe
Period.
- [44:28]
David
Interesting. All right.
- [44:30]
Richard Devoe
Yeah.
- [44:31]
David
We have a lot more to look forward to from you, which I'm excited about, which also selfishly means I get to have more conversation with you in the future, which makes me happy. And you have. I have you with me now in my hand. Here In Plain sight. I get. And I'll have it here in plain sight, so I can see it at all times. But it's great to have a copy of your book, Richard, let's talk about your website so we can send people there so they can follow your journey and, or however you want people to connect with you. As an author, where would you like to send people? And I have one more question to wrap up.
- [45:03]
Richard Devoe
It's pretty simple. It's Richard devoe.com richarD-E-V-E-A u.com I've not updated the site to cover In Plain Sight yet. That's in the works. But the links to the, to the books are, you know, Amazon and Barnes and Noble because the publisher uses Ingram as a distributor. Basically, they're. The book is available anywhere you, you can buy books. You just give them my name and the title and they'll order it for you if you. If that's. If that's the way you want to go. But it's available online and typical outlets, oddly enough, I, I'm very fortunate. I. The Barnes and Noble that's near me. I've had a book signing there this past June. They were so happy they decided to, to stock the book. We're going to have another book signing for In Plain Sight. Actually, we're going to have two. We'll have one in January and then one in June. Last year I did it just before Father's Day and, and they were happy with the number of books that we sold. So I want to do that again.
- [46:12]
David
So are you allowed to go into the store and sign your own book? Like just autograph it and put it back on the shelf? Are you allowed to do that or are you not allowed to do that?
- [46:21]
Richard Devoe
Well, first of all, if, if they, if they are carrying your book, which.
- [46:26]
David
Yeah.
- [46:26]
Richard Devoe
Which is a major thing because, because a lot of bookstores, the chain of bookstores, tend to not include local authors.
- [46:36]
David
Sad.
- [46:39]
Richard Devoe
You know, there. I guess, I mean, there is, there is some, there's some work out there that's just. It's okay. It's. It.
- [46:48]
David
Yeah.
- [46:49]
Richard Devoe
The bookstores really want to carry work that they know is going to sell. And for me, not knowing that having a number of folks come in and buy the book, they're like, okay, we know we're at least going to sell 20, right? Yeah, but it's, it's, it's. I was very fortunate to, to have a relationship with the assistant manager and, and she took a chance on me and, and it paid off for her. And, and so far it's gonna take off for me. But I actually did. I signed. They ordered 40 copies and I, I spent a couple hours, you know, signing 40 copies.
- [47:32]
David
Nice.
- [47:35]
Richard Devoe
That they put, they put a little gold sticker on the front that says, you know, signed copy.
- [47:40]
David
Oh, wow. We can charge more for that, right?
- [47:43]
Richard Devoe
Well, not yet.
- [47:47]
David
Mine's not signed. I'm now all like, oh, I'm fine. I got to talk to the author. I'm happy with that. Now, before we go, Richard, I love having you here. Come back, come back many, many times. Keep writing. You do have a story, and I want to end off with a story because stories are fun. You did something like 25, 26 years ago helping Stephen King. Can you tell us this story about this? Because I think it's so unique and it's not a story that anybody could tell, but you can. So can you give us a little insight? What happened?
- [48:18]
Richard Devoe
One of the ad agencies that, that I was working for at the time, and I, I've. My career spans about four decades of, of writing ad copy and, and directing creative teams. The ad agency I worked for in 2000 had a client called Softlock, and this was a software company that, that had basically figured out how to, to basically have printed material paid for online and then downloaded. Now this was seven years before Kindle existed. So this was, this was leading edge technology at the time. Simon and Schuster wanted to partner with softlock. Simon and Schuster, which at the time was Stephen King's publisher. Stephen King wrote a novella called Riding the Bullet that he only wanted to be available online. He did not want it printed. It has since become a printed book. But that was his goal. So softlock and Simon and Schuster decided they would, they would publish this, this book. My task was to write all the ads for, for that campaign. We had heard that Stephen King himself guessed that there would be maybe 60,000 downloads. It was a new technology, was a new way to get books. It was, you know, and we thought, okay, you know, we toyed with, do we release it a chapter at a time for 25 cents a chapter, or do we release the whole book? And we decided, we released the whole book, and it was $2.50, so 60,000 copies, you know, it's about 150,000 bucks, right? Not bad because, you know, printing costs, no distribution, no nothing. Well, the time of the launch came, 400,000 people tried downloading the book at the same time. This was back in 2000. So the servers crashed, and the way the network worked then was you had this cascading problem. If the server crashed while you were on your computer, your computer crashed. So the servers crashed. Who knows how many computers were crashed? They got to it, they fixed it quickly. When all was said and done, half a million people downloaded the book and essentially ebooks were born. Wow. We had no idea that was going to happen. I was, for me, it was right place, right time. Quite frankly, I, I, you know, part of me says, oh, it was the ads. But no, it was Stephen King. I mean, I could have just put that. That was the only ad, the headline, steven King available. But, you know, it was, it was a wonderful experience and it was, as I said, it was just a delight to, to be, to have a hand in that. And, and really, the whole industry took notice after that, and it changed. I think Amazon was selling books, but, but of course, they, they weren't downloading you. They couldn't sell Kindle. It wasn't available. You could just order and have it shipped to you as you, as you do now. So it was really the forefront of, of that entire industry.
- [51:48]
David
It's very interesting that Stephen King made that decision to do it that way and basically created something.
- [51:55]
Richard Devoe
Yes.
- [51:56]
David
And I, I'm curious to know if what his response was to that overwhelming demand for this book in this new format when he had one expectation, but it completely blew up. Right.
- [52:08]
Richard Devoe
I, I think he, Well, I mean, he's, he's clearly a visionary, you know, I mean, and I think he, he Had a. Probably a good inkling, like he and a number of other folks thought that the future was, you know, this, this digital world.
- [52:24]
David
Right.
- [52:26]
Richard Devoe
But he also had the clout to say, I want to do something about it. Right.
- [52:30]
David
Yeah.
- [52:31]
Richard Devoe
If it was any other author, it may not have happened, you know. May not have happened.
- [52:35]
David
Yeah.
- [52:36]
Richard Devoe
Stephen King and. And therefore. But yeah, that's the kind of visionary that I think, you know, he. He still is. And.
- [52:46]
David
Well, you know, it's a great story. It was a lot of great story. Yeah, that's a great story. Yeah. That's something you can hang your hat on. Oh, I was a part of that.
- [52:55]
Richard Devoe
Yeah.
- [52:55]
David
That's good. Yeah, it's amazing. Richard, again, thank you so much for doing this. Keep coming back, please. Love to have you back again. Congratulations in advance on. On In Plain Sight. Just going to take over the world and we're going to know more and more about Eve and her journeys, and I'm excited to see where you take us next as an author. So, David, I think the audience loves connecting with people like you. And you just keep writing, we'll keep reading. That's our commitment.
- [53:23]
Richard Devoe
That's. And that's so lovely. I, I thank you so much, David, for this opportunity. You are a delight. You're a wonderful host. I. I can't. I. I feel like, you know, you're. You're my old friend. You know, you, You. It's so easy to connect with you and relate to you and, and to. And to. And to listen to you. Your. Your podcasts are delightful.
- [53:45]
David
Thank you, sir. I appreciate that so much. Everyone, all information as always, for Richard in the show notes. Don't just buy this book. Come on. This is the first time you've heard Richard. Then go buy lights out as well. That book is amazing. The two together. There you. You'll double your love for Richard just by getting both. And then just be ready because Richard's going to have another one, so follow his website and stay in touch with him and keep your. Keep your eye on this author. I think you're really going to love not just these two books, but what's coming in the future. Richard, again, come back. I'd love to have you back. Thank you so much, David.
- [54:19]
Richard Devoe
I. I definitely will. I definitely will. Thank you so much.
- [54:23]
David
Awesome. Everyone. Have a great Christmas holidays. If you're listening right now, and if you're listening in the future, perfect. Go grab a copy right now. Leave a great review as well. Let people know why you love this book so much and make sure that People understand that In Plain Sight is your top read for 2026. Thanks, Richard.
- [54:43]
Richard Devoe
Thank you so much, Dave.
- [54:48]
David
Hey, thank you so much again for pressing play. As you've heard, great guests on the show and one thing you didn't hear in this conversation is what? What did you not hear? Think about it for a second. That's right. Not a single solitary commercial for a mattress or a supplement or whatever you call it.
- [55:08]
Richard Devoe
No.
- [55:09]
David
Why? Because we don't want to break up the conversation with commercials. So the fact that you're still here means that you are a fan of the show. I'm assuming so. So if you want to help to keep the podcast going and to make me feel really happy, all I really care about is coffee. Okay. I just gotta be honest. I love coffee. I'm drinking one right now. Starting to get cold.
- [55:32]
Richard Devoe
I need.
- [55:32]
David
I need to warm it up. Helping us with our Buy me a coffee link over at living the next chapter.com and also in the show notes helps kind of keep the lights on around here. Remember, I'm doing this for free. I. I'm paying for everything, so I would love to have a little coffee donation. You know, even five bucks kind of fills up my cup. And I would love to enjoy a coffee from you. So if you're interested, again, thank you for listening, but you can use our Buy me a coffee link and fill up the cup. Thanks for being here.