← Living The Red Life
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- [00:00]
A
I have never seen somebody mail too much. I've only seen them not mail enough. Especially today when people are inundated. We send an email and we think everybody's opening it, everybody's reading it, everybody's making a decision and it's just not the case. Don't be afraid to mail your your peeps more often. Be more afraid of not mailing them enough, them disengaging with you, and them finding a solution elsewhere because you're not reaching out enough.
- [00:26]
B
My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill. Take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your life. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. We have more marketing legends on the show today. Todd is here. You probably know who he is. Very famous marketer I've known, uh, I'll be in for many, many years. And we, you know, float in these same circles. And whenever we're talking about high level markets as high level tactics, buddy, your name comes up every time. Welcome to the show.
- [01:05]
A
Super excited to be with you, man. Super excited to be, to be chatting and was so hoping that I was going to get to see you decked out in all of your red and so like all your red gear, man. I was so looking forward to that, man, and so love it. But I'm super excited to be here, man.
- [01:19]
B
Good, good. Well, you know, I know you have a massive background for many years in all areas of marketing, but today we wanted to talk about something that I know you're really excited for, how you're really, you know, making the most of your email list, keeping it healthy, keeping it fresh and maximizing that and your exact strategy to do that. And as we were talking offline, so many of my members, followers, clients, they, you know, they grow a list and then I'm like, how many times you mail? And they're like, oh, maybe once a week. I don't really do much with it. And you know, you're always like, oh, gosh, so, so let's dive in. What is this email strategy that's been working so well for you?
- [01:58]
A
Yeah, so we call it a bullet campaign. The name came about because, look, you know, we, my, my business partner and I, we, we sat down, we had this conversation that was like, look, we've paid for this asset. We paid for the email list, right? We've already paid through our media buying for the acquisition of these leads. And we have the opportunity to give them value and monetize them seven days a week. And so we want something that we can fire off every week that gives them the opportunity to get more value and gives us the opportunity to further monetize. And so a bullet campaign is very simple. Look, one of the things that was really important to me was I wanted to maximize the monetization of our email list as much as possible. But I also didn't want to burn out the list. I wanted to keep the list responsive. Right. So, so I was very sensitive to that. And so we ended up coming up with this very, very simple but cool system that again we call a bullet campaign. A bullet campaign really consists of three different components. The first two components are two separate email sequences that are used together. And let me walk you through this. So the first email sequence runs for three days. We call it an interest sequence. And basically it is two emails a day, one email in the morning, one email at night, and it runs for three days. Now the whole entire purpose of that interest sequence is to get the people that are interested in learning more about the topic that we have a product for to raise their hand and identify themselves. We consider raising their hand and identifying themselves. A click on the email, a click to get more information. So that click sequence or that interest sequence, which runs for three days, which is two emails a day, is really is telling them that is, is giving them information about a particular topic. And then the call to action is ultimately for us, usually it is go watch the video for more details about this.
- [04:13]
B
And I imagine that subject headline is pretty neutral because you're trying to self assess from people clicking it. So does it kind of explain what the area of topic is or is it still more?
- [04:24]
A
Yeah, so that's a great point, man, that's a great question. So one thing is that that interest sequence, those emails are not blind. They're not leveraging excessive curiosity or mystery. They're really kind of like, look, you know, it's almost like look, you know, do you, are, you know, are your social posts lacking engagement or whatever, right? Like blah, blah, blah, there's a new and different way to fix that. Blah, blah, blah. And so the whole aim is that when they click, we know that they're not clicking out of sheer curiosity or mystery. They're clicking because it resonates with them and they want more information. Now what happens is that that interest sequence will run for three days. If at the end of Those three days, somebody does not click, in other words, somebody doesn't express interest. They are taken out of the bullet campaign, they're done. They'll never see the offer, they're never see anything like that. What happens when they click obviously is they're then immediately removed from that interest sequence. They're immediately taken over to a VSL. Our VSLs now and this is a little nuanced, but it's important. Our video sales letters tend to be very education based driven. They're education based marketing and so I'm a big believer in, in education based marketing done with the intention of building value around our solution. And so what happens is they come over to the video, they're able to get more information and ultimately an offer in the end on what it is that we talked about in the email. There is always a dynamic deadline on that vsl. A dynamic deadline meaning, right that, that there's a three day deadline no matter when they hit the page. So if somebody clicks on email, interest email number one, they go over to the video, there is a three day countdown. If somebody clicks on the, the fourth email, which is the second email on day two of the interest sequence and they go over to the video, they also have a three day deadline. So everybody's got the same, the same deadline no matter when they click on the interest email. So they click on one of the interest emails, they get taken out of that sequence, they go over to the video with a dynamic three day deadline. And that dynamic deadline is what I consider to be the third component of the bullet campaign. And then they get put into a conversion sequence, which is really what I would consider the second component. So you've got an interest sequence, you've got a dynamic deadline and you've got a conversion sequence. And then the conversion sequence of course is only triggered for those people on the house file on the email list that raised their hand and identified themselves as being interested by clicking on the link to go get more information. And that conversion sequence is now more about the offer, the benefits of the offer, the benefits of the solution going. And that also runs for three days. Very similar to the interest sequence. Except on day three of the conversion sequence there are four emails. And day four, day three of the conversion sequence is more about deadline scarcity, urgency, that sort of thing and that simple little system. We have those done like in other words. So I, I believe we have about 12 of those done, right? With everything is already already done and what we do is we just cycle through them. And so one week we'll release bullet one. You know, week two, we fire off bullet two, three, four all the way through. And then when we get to the end, we go back to the beginning and right and we, then we fire off bullet one. And it's amazing how it will continue to generate sales every week, not only from new leads on our house file, but old leads that have been on our house file for, at this point for years.
- [08:30]
B
Yeah, I love it. So a few, few clarifying points that I have and you know, for anyone listening, like how I'm visualizing this in my head is like a free stage, sort of free stage growth where stage one is in, you know, just getting them to raise their hand, show interest, to add some value of content. Stage two, somewhere in the middle where you're starting to sell but you're still having these educational vessels and it's targeted to the people that were interested. And then stage three, as you more hard sell, you know, direct to offer back, click here to buy, blah blah, blah, you know, here's a value stack, bonuses, fast act, all those sort of things. And are they, are you mainly doing these for like, you know, 500,000, 2,000 plus offers? Are you doing this for low ticket stuff too? How are you picking the.
- [09:21]
A
So I would say that. Yay. You're a great question man. And you summed it up perfectly a lot simpler than I did. I would say that we were, we do this, we have these bullet campaigns for, you know, the lowest is probably, you know, 199 bucks all the way up to maybe 2,000. And so like 1997. And so right in that sweet spot. And what we do is intentionally we mix up the price points so we're Never doing like 2,000, 2,000. We're doing 2,199. Right. 997. We're mixing it up so that nobody ever feels like, man, everything I see is always out of my price range.
- [10:05]
B
Yeah, well, what's pretty interesting too is over time, you know, say you have a hundred thousand on your list. If you have a, you know, a decent list, you, you, are you applying tags back to the CRM so you can then when you launch Facebook ad offers, you can upload like hey, 20,000 people that showed interest in social media stuff over the year of running this bullet sequence.
- [10:26]
A
Yeah, always we actually do that. And anytime we share any piece of content, whether like a YouTube video, whether it's our own YouTube video or somebody else's, or you know, we apply a tag in what we call an interest tag, so that we know who's expressing interest in what different topics, when, where, all that stuff?
- [10:48]
B
Yeah, I love it, I love it. And do you find people on the list over time? And I kind of know the answer to this, but I want to ask it because I, my, my, my common complaint I get from people with emailing is they have this belief, and I guess I did 10 years ago, that like, people are so scared of spam and like thinking, oh, they've already seen this offer. And it's like I try and tell them, like, hey, they see hundreds of emails a day. They don't see every email you send. So like, what would you say to people that are like, in their head, like, oh, repeating every 12 weeks. People are going to see it again in 12 weeks and get upset at me.
- [11:23]
A
Yeah, not, not even close. Our probably our biggest issue, honestly our biggest issue is that we get people that buy the same product that they already bought. They realize and they're like, wow, I already own this. I didn't even real. I totally forgot. And so, no, man, people have a very short memory, I think that we're obviously so close to our own stuff that we think everybody remembers the email that we sent two weeks ago. And nobody remembers, man. No, nobody remembers.
- [11:50]
B
I say to them, like, you wish you were, that, you know, someone's lied suddenly of the month.
- [11:57]
A
So true, man, so true. Spot on.
- [11:59]
B
And do you ever refresh the, the interest ones like the first couple or the subject lines or you literally keep it identical every 12 week?
- [12:08]
A
I would say that night, 90 plus percent, we just, we, we use it over and over and over. The only time that will kind of refresh, you know, or make some tweaks is if we weren't happy with the response that we got from the, from the interest sequence. Other than that 90% are just the same, done, you know, done deal, boom, boom, boom. And so, and I would say that we have had instances where we didn't get a great response to a bullet campaign. We refreshed the interest, we ran it again, we still didn't get a great response. And so we sunset it, we shelve it and then we try to replace it with a, with a new one. And so, but that's rare.
- [12:52]
B
Do you find big variability, like one whole sequence can flop and only do 5 grand, 10 grand and some will do 50, 100k? Or are they all sitting in this, you know, and you don't have to share exact figures if you don't want, but are they all sitting within a range or are you getting these massive variants?
- [13:09]
A
No, there are definitely some that are, you know, there are some that do a heck of a lot better, you know. You know, I would say, you know, there are some that could do, you know, forex, you know, four times what others can. I think some of that is price point related. You know, some of that is a little bit how broad the appeal is versus how narrow it is. But you know, look, you know, this is not, it's important to understand, right, that ultimately what we're talking about is just not allowing your email list to sit. And so unless you've got something to do every week, unless you write, if your choice is, well, I'm going to have a gap week and the list is going to sit and see nothing or I'm going to do this and I'm going to collect whatever the number may be for their business, I'm going to do it. Because not only is the cash flow important, but more important is to keep the list engaged.
- [14:03]
B
Yeah, yeah. And as I always tell people, it's free money. Right. And it's funny, I always had a private kind of event with Grant Cardone and it's always stuck with me, with him, you know, whether you love or hate him. He said when he they ran the analytics of their growth con event and most people that bought their 20K VIP, which is an insane prize for a live event, right? 20k VIP tickets for a live event, most of them had unsubscribed on his email list and ever since he told me that I would like to share it because people that fear, you know, too much emailing and unsubscribing, it doesn't always mean they end up unsubscribing and hate hating you either. They might just know that you marketing a lot and want to take a break. So yeah, I think it's great how you built this system and I think so many people can use it because they're always wondering what to do. And I think it's a great use of offers too because we make so many offers and probably like a lot of us, we run them on ads for a bit or affiliates, then they kind of phase out and we launch new ones and they're doing better. But now you just can kind of get more lifetime out of those offers.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah, well said. Let me end, let me, let me kind of wrap with this, you know, how this kind of came about because I think, you know, look, it is a very, you know, it's a common fear that marketers, you Know, have like, am I going to email the list too much? And you know, two things that I would share. Number one, in all the years that I've consulted and coached with a variety of different marketers, from the biggest names to fairly new entrepreneurs, I, I've never seen somebody mail too much. I've only seen them not mail enough. And what really solidified the value of more frequent mailing, especially today when people are inundated and right. We think we send an email and we think everybody's opening it, everybody's reading it, everybody's making a decision and it's just not the case. Was so one of, one of my clients that our mutual friend Rich actually first introduced me to the Agora companies. We were having a meeting one day and one of the guy, one of the like the head honcho dude shared with me that one of the biggest changes that they've seen in terms of the growth of sales from their email is what they would do is when they would get their publishers. And so they send out like a daily, you know, newsletter every day. Right. And so what he said was we decided that when somebody opted in for one newsletter, we were going to automatically put them on a second newsletter. Now, I don't know the legalities of that and so don't hold me to the, to the legalities of that, but he said we put them on a second newsletter and now they're mailing both of those newsletters separately every day to these people. He said, and we saw a bump. He said. And so we decided let's roll out a third. Let's see. Right. And he said we're, we're up to seven different newsletters that we sweep people onto and. Right. It's amazing because they ignore one, they get another, they get another. And so the point is that don't be afraid to mail your, your peeps more often. Be more afraid of not mailing them enough, them disengaging with you, and them finding a solution elsewhere because you're not reaching out enough.
- [17:22]
B
Yeah, no, I love that. Love that. So a couple of rapid fire questions as we wrap up the show today for you. That's been a great session and I love how simple and also successful that system is and how easy it is, I think, to implement. But a couple of more broad markets and business questions. I'll kick the first one off. It's probably one of my favorites. What's your most controversial belief around business marketing? Money that upsets people.
- [17:50]
A
So, okay, so great question, man. So I'm going to Stick to marketing, I'll stick to specifically copy. So my biggest belief, and I've believed this for many, many years and live and die by this, that I don't believe that marketing, direct response, marketing, direct response, copy today is salesmanship in print. I believe that too many people rely so much on benefits, benefits, benefits, benefits, and their marketing message ends up being absent of a logical sound argument that proves that they've got a different and superior solution. And so while everybody talks about marketing and sales is all about emotion, emotion, emotion while it is, and emotion is a key driver, what is absent is that again, that rock solid sound argument that proves with evidence, support, that you've got a different unsuperior solution compared to everybody else.
- [18:53]
B
I see that a lot because when I, even with my own copy team, often when I review the funnels, I'm like, I'm always going to them like, what's the bridge? What's the magic pill that's going to get them from all this pain and failure and attempts to, you know, what's the bridge to with our solution that's going to change things? And I do feel people miss that too much. And you know, base psychology is, I always say, why weight Watchers work. Did they want to buy into this magic pill? Right? And yeah, yeah.
- [19:21]
A
And I think to just add, add to that for one second just this idea that, like, look, just because you say it's great, if you don't provide evidence and support, you say that like, this is great, it works quickly, it's easy, anybody can do it. And you're not giving any support for those claims. What the healthiest way to operate as a marketer is to recognize that people are going to go, yeah, right, of course you're saying that. Everybody says that. How do I. Give me the evidence, give me the support, give me something where I can say, yeah, I understand why this is easy. I understand why it's quick, I understand why it's safe. I understand why it's better than those. That makes total sense to me. I get it. That's what's missing.
- [20:01]
B
I think a big part of that too is what I teach a lot now is marketplace advancement. Ten years ago, I don't think you needed that as much in most industry, whereas now you do. Because every, pretty much every industry, biz, op, fitness, weight loss, dating, they've all financed, they've all advanced now. And it's funny because I expanded into Colombia and Latam and South America and it's actually like it was eight, 10 years ago where all those things like we used to do work because they've not progressed as much as, you know, online with funnels and direct response. So it's definitely an advancement too. But yeah, last laugh.
- [20:37]
A
Well said. Well said.
- [20:38]
B
Last couple of questions for you. Biggest win or think you're proud of in your business career and biggest failure and lesson from that.
- [20:48]
A
So I'll give you the biggest win. It's not the biggest, it's not the thing that I'm most proud of. The thing that I'm most proud of, I would just say is the is client stories, which I won't bore you with. The biggest win was probably when. And a lot of this is luck. So let me just say that right was when there was a time when a lot of the direct response marketers, they looked at the Agora companies as they were the 800 pound gorilla. Everybody was enamored with them. Everybody wanted to know what, what they were doing, how they were writing copy, all this kind of crazy stuff. And it was right at the peak of that that this one of my clients from the Agora companies reached out to me and said, hey, we need some help getting copywriters. We have an idea. We want to take the recordings of our internal copywriting system, the training that we do for these people over like eight weeks. We want to take the live recordings and we want to sell them to the marketplace. And then out of the people that buy, we want to see if we can recruit some good copywriters. Hey Todd, would you be interested in marketing and selling that for us? And I was like, oh my gosh. Oh, like I was ready to cry with joy because I knew that, you know, the market was just the pent up demand was insane. And we did just a really, a really cool and very different type of campaign where I flew out to Baltimore and we did like a behind the scenes tour for the day of what they do and how they train their copywriters. And then we delivered that in story format, like text, dialogue, images, some mirrored audio clips, all that. And the, you know, the engagement was off the charts. The sales were off the charts. The buzz in the marketplace was off. The char. We had them hand number, thumb drives. Like it was just the entire experience was off the charts and it was, you know, it was really unlike anything I had ever experienced.
- [22:58]
B
That's a great, that's a great story and a great, great win. Yeah, I love when the wins aren't, you know, they're financial, they're like experiential like that. So. And that's really cool. So. All right, well, there you have it, guys. That's the bullet method for email, so your emails never stop making you money. Todd, such a pleasure to have you on the show. Amazing value. And I'm sure we'll have you back because there's a million other things we could geek out about. So thank you so much, guys, as always. Keep living the red life, and I'll see you guys soon.