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- [00:00]
Rudy Moore
We actually ran a campaign that was Ads Equal Freedom. And we'd explain that ads on about ads. It's about, without ads, you don't have traffic. And without traffic, you don't have sales. And without sales, you can't pay your mortgage and you're worrying how to grow your business.
- [00:13]
Garrett J. White
If you know that what you sell works and you know that what you sell can benefit the person deeply, then there is a place of deep pain and darkness. You're willing to take this prospect in your marketing and in your sales conversations that most people will not, because the cost of them not moving forward in your mind with what you're selling is so great. The intensity of not buying is life or death.
- [00:38]
Rudy Moore
Any of the big marketing tips or things you've noticed.
- [00:41]
Garrett J. White
So the challenge I watch with, and this goes with any product, any service somebody's offering is.
- [00:46]
Rudy Moore
My name's Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill. Take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your. Your life. What's up? Welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. Joining me today is a face you'll probably recognize if you're watching on video here with Garrett, founder of Wake Up Warrior. He's the highest paid PE teacher in the world, and we'll get to that in just a second. But he's totally crushed an industry for over a decade. He's got a big event coming up, 7,000 people. And what I admire the most is how he's built such an amazing tribe community and following over, you know, many, many years, which we're going to dive into today. So welcome to the show, buddy.
- [01:31]
Garrett J. White
Excited to be here. And legitimately, my background is I graduated from college as a PE Teacher.
- [01:37]
Rudy Moore
Oh, wow.
- [01:38]
Garrett J. White
But they called it a pedagogist.
- [01:40]
Rudy Moore
A what?
- [01:40]
Garrett J. White
A pedagogist. This is a fancy way of calling PE Teachers who are at the bottom of the teaching food chain, making them feel special.
- [01:47]
Rudy Moore
That's funny. Well, and now you just teach adult children.
- [01:51]
Garrett J. White
It's. Exactly. I will tell you now, coaching 60 kindergarteners on how to maneuver a gym is easier than working with a thousand grown men. Yes.
- [01:59]
Rudy Moore
Well, so let's talk about it. Obviously, you coach men. If someone for some reason doesn't know who you are, I know most will. Can you summarize what you do?
- [02:06]
Garrett J. White
Yeah. So I was looking for a model after successfully being in real estate and mortgages for 10 years and then losing everything. In 2008, I knew there had to be a different way to live life. I was a For money. I was shitty father, a shitty husband, and disconnected from God. But I knew how to make money. And I created a system that. That put KPIs to my life, that let me know I was being a great father, let me know I was being a great husband, let me know I was connected to God and that I was still making a ton of money.
- [02:32]
Rudy Moore
Well, I love that because I think a lot of salespeople fall into that trap, the progression of a salesperson as an entrepreneur. And everyone always asks me, like, when I look at life, I'm like, I kind of built this thing in my own head. Like, I'm always optimizing around five elements, and I'm yet to get all five perfect. Like, it's like you get four good, but it's like, you know, your money and finances, business, your personal relationships. Right. I always say, like, hobbies, stuff that inspires you, something around religious or spiritual. Right. And then. And then family life. Yeah, right. And it's like, for me, I've always been like, I get really good at four and one drops, right? And health's in there, too. Health. I. In the hobbies part, health and wellness. And I've got, like, really good at four or five. And that's kind of how I see you. The reason I'm bringing this up is you really work to optimize, like, those main buckets for a person or a man or now a family, too, I feel.
- [03:28]
Garrett J. White
Yeah, well, it's. If you look at. The concept for me was like, I looked at how I had been successful in business, and then I wasn't successful, and I'd lost everything. I was like, okay, what is it that gives. I didn't have the courage to actually do what's required. Like, a lot of people trying to market, they just don't have the courage. They know what to do. They won't fucking do it. Or they know what to do in sales, but they won't do it. Or they know how to launch their brand. And you've taught them everything. You're like, bro, I've given you the fucking blueprint. It's right here. Just do this. And they won't do it. This is most reason people don't create, they don't market, they don't sell is because of capacity issues. So I started looking. I said, if I have a body that's weaponized and feels powerful, I Actually market and sell harder. If I feel certain in my connection with God and who I am, I have more fuel and I will courageously market harder. If I have great sex, communication, intimacy with my wife and I'm not fighting with her all the time, and I have a great connection with my children, I don't feel guilty all the time when that's all lined up. Doing what's required in business is actually simple and it's much lighter.
- [04:31]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, well, you, you know, I teach you as the entrepreneur, you're the all star player or you're the car, right. The F1 car. You've got to be well serviced. If you're shitty, everything else is shitty at the state, it'll be shitty for your staff, Everything. Right. And I think now, I think in the last five years there's been this big movement in entrepreneurship because I came from the health space, I was a sports scientist, super fit. And it's funny, I like fell out of it and got unfit. And during that time, everyone in entrepreneurship got fit, you know, like, especially during COVID it was like this flip flop, right? Like I saw Andy Frisella do it, then started 75 hard. Then all my entrepreneur friends started that, you know. So it's kind of funny how in the last five years there's been this big realization.
- [05:12]
Garrett J. White
I feel, I think there's a consciousness that come into just entrepreneurism. I think there's been so many. And a lot of that's the push from the younger generation in their 20s and 30s. They've watched the failure which a lot of guys I work with in their 40s and 50s, they failure to the parents failure rate of older people and they're like some. I don't know exactly what to do, but what they're doing is fucked up. It's not working.
- [05:31]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [05:32]
Garrett J. White
So recently the funnest part I've watched in the last two years is a consciousness of God has come back into entrepreneurship at a level that seems almost like a virus.
- [05:41]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, it's massive. Yeah.
- [05:42]
Garrett J. White
Like even Muslim, Jewish, Christian, doesn't really matter in that space is like there's just a, an awareness even here in Miami, moving here. There's an awareness here that wasn't even in Southern California. The same for me. It was just awareness of, okay, I, I'm a conscious being. There's something I can. I, I need to be about something more than just I'm going to do this, I'm. I need to make money. I need to make money. So I was like committed to bring my whole Life with me at the same time. So I was behind the curve with a lot of people in entrepreneurs, and when I restarted after, lots of them because they were committed to make money. And I was tempted to go do that, just make money, but I was like, I don't want to be the dude who's fat as fuck on my third marriage with a side chick and my kids hate me, but I'm rich. And then I'll spend. Lose half my money in a divorce, spend the rest of my money to fix my health, spend the rest of my money to try to buy back the love and affection from my children. I was like, I'm going to move this like a phalanx, and I'm going to move slower, but when I get to your front door, I will have no weakness. I will be bulletproof. My marriage on fire, my kids are on fire. My fitness is on fire. My body's on fire, My money's on fire. So every move I make is a groundswell. Now. Some people are seeing me now and they're like, the rise of man, of the arena tour, the stuff we're doing. They're like, we didn't think Gary was like, doing anything. I was like, I've been doing this for 13 to 14 years. All that's happened now is momentum has.
- [07:03]
Rudy Moore
It's like the. The snow falls on a mountain over many months and then eventually there's a avalanche.
- [07:10]
Garrett J. White
Yeah, right.
- [07:10]
Rudy Moore
That's kind of how that's for you. And that's great because I think one thing that, you know, I'm sure you agree most people can't do that because they're not disciplined. That's why they can do one thing good. But then when it's like five things or four things, it gets really hard because you've got to be up at 5am to train because you. And then you've got to run the business. Then you've got to block out time for the marriage and the kids. And that's where discipline and organization comes in.
- [07:33]
Garrett J. White
It's easier to centrally focus. Right. So everybody wants to breach no balance. No balance amounts, which I agree, can't really balance everything. I put way more time into my business than I do. If you were just to look at quantification of time, Most entrepreneurs will spend 80, 90% of the time thinking about or executing in their business. And then there's the rest of life, right? My kids. I can't give my children the same amount of time I give the business. Lifestyle doesn't exist for them. So what Time I do have with my children have to be present. I don't spend all day long marketing either. But if I'm working on a sales funnel where I'm sitting with my teams and we're working on copy or I'm working on ad sets where I'm working, I'm like here. I'm not anywhere else. I'm right here. I'm not with my wife, I'm not with my kids. I'm not with the sales team. I'm right here this afternoon. I'll be with the sales team. We're all worried about sales. I'm just going to be right here with the salespeople. But most dudes can't be present enough.
- [08:19]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [08:19]
Garrett J. White
To actually be here and then to try to be here and then here and here and keep life moving forward together. It's a stressful game.
- [08:26]
Rudy Moore
Why is that? And also, you know, I've grown. We grew our team to 110 employees and now we're sat about 85, 90, which have been like a sweet spot for us right now. But a lot of them don't build the team and systems too. So I was saying to someone the other day, they're asking, how do you do all the triathlon? I'm like, I actually only work like five hours a day now because I have 80 employees doing everything else for me. So I think part of it is that growth of it. As an entrepreneur. If you always stay the hustling entrepreneur, you'll always burn out and not balance, like be able to do all those things. But if you get good at building great teams and people, you should be able to actually buy your time back to go spend more time with family. And sometimes you have to go deep to build the business and then you can come out the other side.
- [09:10]
Garrett J. White
There's a challenge. The challenge a lot of men, like in their 40s and 50s face that. I'm trying to help the younger generation see that it doesn't have to go this way, which there's a lot higher trend to it. A lot of direct response marketers. A lot of entrepreneurs that I know that are in their 20s and 30s are starting to see a better path to doing, which is they're actually into having more fun in life and experiencing life and traveling in life. Now they're not getting married, not having kids. So they're like playing a different play. My generation just got married in their twenties.
- [09:36]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [09:36]
Garrett J. White
Started making babies because that was what the game was, because that's what our parents did and everybody else so by the time I was, like, 30, I already had, you know, two children. By the time my 30s, I had three kids. Now I have five children. So it's like, it's different. I'll be 49 this summer. So, like, pushing into that place, though, of not having to bottom out and then come back and repair became our goal. Which is how. Which means I'm gonna have to let some things go. There's certain fires in the kingdom, and the kingdom of warrior, they're gonna burn anytime. Every day, something burn. It's like the size of my houses now. It's like something's breaking all the time.
- [10:10]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [10:10]
Garrett J. White
Every day you have a small little condo, maybe some breaks, have a couple weeks.
- [10:13]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [10:14]
Garrett J. White
When you got big, houses suck. Doorknobs, broken, toilet breaks. The pool's not working. Shrubs are dying. Something, something. Oh, the kids spilled over here. Dog on the carpets. Like, there's something happening all the damn time. But that's no different than what's going on in business, too.
- [10:29]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. And the bigger the business, more problems.
- [10:32]
Garrett J. White
More problems.
- [10:32]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [10:32]
Garrett J. White
That's why I remember Robert Kiyosaki. Back when I first started Dallas Badland to about like 23 years ago, I read rich dad, poor dad. That was like my entry point in. He's like, set millions of entrepreneurs on fire.
- [10:41]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [10:42]
Garrett J. White
And we were sitting in a meeting with him, and there was like, small group, 20 of us. I was young, and I had like a yellow notepad. I'm taking the notes and I don't know what the fuck I'm writing because I'm just dumb. But I'm so excited to be in a room. And I'm like, I put $20,000 to be in this room. I don't have a clue what all they're saying, but super pumped. Writing some down that I'm never going to go look at again. And I and all you young bucks listening to this right now, you're like writing on a yellow pad. Yeah, dude, we rock the yellow pad. And iPhones chatgpt Shit, you should beat us. If you don't beat us right now, you're just a slow, lazy bitch. So this game end of creating for me was like, what's harder? Having a lot of money or having having none? And I'd come from none. So I was like, way harder to have none. He's like, oh, no. Way harder to be wealthy and to keep it.
- [11:26]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, keep it.
- [11:27]
Garrett J. White
And that's what I'm proud of, what we've done. Warrior. Warrior. Because we've Grown year over year for 13 years. Well, dudes have come and gone in the space of men's space, but we continue to operate. We get bigger every year. Grow, grow, grow, affected. 26 other men's movements have launched out behind us. And people say, well, how. How is your marketing different? Because when you come to our events, you watch our marketing, et cetera, it's distinctly different. We couldn't follow the same models of direct response the way that it was when you were selling money. So, like advertising agencies or sales training companies or coaches who coach coaches to make big money, which I think is a big circle jerk. See, Hi. I made all my big money. I'm really rich. How did you get rich? Teaching other coaches how to get rich. I'm like, ah, dude, have you ever actually coached tapes? Yes. Besides coaching broke people to be rich. And you took the money from them and you got the money and it's a big, huge Ponzi scheme.
- [12:10]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:11]
Garrett J. White
Or selling money, which I had done in banking, in real estate, which is selling cash. I'm like, here, let me sell you an ATM machine. So we were. We had to find a new way to market, which was soul driven, which is. I had to get my content to not just follow the frameworks of direct response, but I had to reach into and rip your fucking soul out. I had to reach into you and pull you to me. So we love that everybody want to funnel hack us because we laughed the whole time. You're like, you're going to get sucked into the vortex. Please funnel hack us away. Because half of them come to our funnels trying to funnel hack away. The Russell taught them became our clients.
- [12:45]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [12:45]
Garrett J. White
Because they get sucked into our movies, we create a specific type of movie my friend Jeremy Findlay and I worked with for seven years called Sales you mentories.
- [12:53]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [12:53]
Garrett J. White
And our theory was, could you take a documentary, marry it to a vsl, put them together, and have people share your sales video? Like it was talked about as a documentary on Netflix.
- [13:05]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [13:06]
Garrett J. White
And it worked. And so our movies were visceral. They went dark and light. They would rip people into pieces as they watched them. Our target. Not everyone, but our target market. We knew who they were. We built huge pain books of thousands of applications. We had books that were this thick with exact verbiage that our guys used to describe the pain of the situation. So we could embed that language into our salesumentaries and into our copy in a way that we could describe the painful pit of this man's reality in words and Language that immediately resonated, but was better and more clear than he'd ever been about his own problems.
- [13:43]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. So they're going through it and going. He's talking to me. I always say great marketing is when someone goes through and goes talking exactly to me.
- [13:51]
Garrett J. White
Yeah. And our goal is to have guys be, like. Almost feel like we had followed them around with a camera. And even when I would talk about simple things, about their habits and masturbation.
- [14:02]
Rudy Moore
Okay.
- [14:02]
Garrett J. White
Because we knew we were dudes, we did the same. And we had data points on thousands of men. We knew how that is. So when I would describe your wife's in bed, you're terrified you can't reach across, even touch her. Everything. And he wants to connect with this woman, but it feels like the Great Wall of China is between the both of you. And so instead of reaching across that treacherous way to touch her, you dip off into the bathroom, go find your favorite porn again, and find yourself jerking off in the toilet, only to be filled with guilt and shame over the fact this is happening. Waking up the next morning with rage and anger because of the fact that you have put yourself in this situation. The one vagina you chose, and you're trapped like a motherfucker. When I describe it with those words, I'm describing not only my experience, I'm describing the experience of thousands of other men.
- [14:45]
Rudy Moore
Wow.
- [14:46]
Garrett J. White
Now, to single dudes who don't have a wife and three kids, we weren't after them.
- [14:52]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. Yeah.
- [14:53]
Garrett J. White
So people are like, you need to broaden your message, right? Hell no. We're staying right here in our vertical. And if we're going to expand the vertical, then we're going to language a different vertical, but we are going to stay in this vertical, and we're going to master this vertical all the way to the bottom.
- [15:07]
Rudy Moore
Well, there's enough people, too. Married men.
- [15:10]
Garrett J. White
Plenty.
- [15:11]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [15:11]
Garrett J. White
It was fun with the younger guys, too, that saw us when we first started. They would see our marketing be like, wow, it's really good. Then they get married.
- [15:18]
Rudy Moore
Okay.
- [15:19]
Garrett J. White
And they'd have their first baby. And then all of a sudden, they come back, holy shit, Coach. Everything I've been watching of your shit for the last five years now makes sense. I was like, of course you're married. You just had a baby, and you're in the sex prison. We know. Welcome to Warrior. Now let us help you.
- [15:35]
Rudy Moore
So. So just to recap for everyone listening, because, you know, I wanted to talk about the marketing. We've already gone there. Like, the deep psychology, Right. Knowing the Avatar audience storytelling to sell, Right? Three things I'm already hearing playing the long game, I'm hearing right. Put it out. It's not like you're just trying to sell a low ticket offer an upsell right away, which nothing wrong with that. But you're playing the long game and really getting them to, you know, you're creating the emotion so they follow you. And maybe the life cycles long too. Right. Some of them are even before, before the awareness stage. You know, they're going to come into that awareness stage when they get married and have kids and any of the big marketing tips or things you've noticed on top of those that you want to add.
- [16:18]
Garrett J. White
So the challenge I watch with, and this goes with any product, any service somebody's offering is that their, their vision of that client journey for them is.
- [16:25]
Rudy Moore
Too small because they want the cash quick. They're living day to day.
- [16:29]
Garrett J. White
You know, I want to sell this shit right now, right. So they're like, how do I get the least. I remember Frank Kern was one of my mentors like 14 years ago and or 13 years ago. And we were talking about some of the sales funnels I built. And he was comparing to a bunch of other direct response marshalls in the room. And he looks at me and he goes, this motherfucker runs people with traffic straight to a four part video funnel and sells a $35,000 program. Do you know why he can do that? Because he can talk to people. The rescue idiots that can't talk to anyone have to write great copy. Because direct response was built from guys who didn't like to talk to people. They've been trying to figure a way to never have to talk to another.
- [17:02]
Rudy Moore
Person so they could say, yeah, they were mostly fat. Copyrighted.
- [17:05]
Garrett J. White
Exactly. So we started looking at a through line and saying, if here's where my guy's starting and I solve this problem, he hits a new peak of possibility. It opens a new problem, which then opens up another possibility, which opens up another problem, which opens up another possibility. And instead of that first sale being a sale forward, how do I get you to buy this now? It's how do I get you to be with me for the next eight years? And so we would sell from the ad to the landing page, to the first offer, to the first, first sales call. We were not selling a $10,000 program. We were selling a three to four to five year journey with us. So we would speak about this place of freedom that was way over here.
- [17:46]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [17:47]
Garrett J. White
And we would identify it as this Is checkpoint number one of seven. Welcome to the journey.
- [17:53]
Rudy Moore
So let me just ask you a question. People are listening saying it sounds great but I got to cash flow the ad somehow.
- [17:58]
Garrett J. White
How.
- [17:58]
Rudy Moore
How would you do that on a more strategic financial level. Right. Like would you spend. I'm going to spend 200 grand a month and expect nothing back or in. In the first month they're buying something to at least break even. Can you talk about that?
- [18:11]
Garrett J. White
Well, we're still like everybody else looking for a slow off the first. Right. We're trying to liquidate off that fresh program. But like it's I would say about 50% of the time our ad spend off the first initial lead development with our bump sells and our upsells. We will. We'll liquidate the other 50%. We don't. That happens on the first offer. And then we have some paths where we've taken where we're okay like an insurance company. We know the retention of that client. We're okay to be profitable. Six months. Because Dan Kennedy was the one who was teaching me back in the day too. He's like the guy that can spend the most money to get the lead.
- [18:40]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [18:40]
Garrett J. White
Is going to dominate.
- [18:41]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. I mean every big company on the planet play the long game. It's only the mini little marketing world where everyone's trying to. And I used to be like that and it kept me at like a few mil a year. And then when I really learned from whoever a few people I think Alex Mayer was, you know, someone I worked with, Ty's partner and he built a software company and software companies inherently are LTV based, not cash flow based. So that. And that was like a trigger for me. And I instantly jumped to a million a month or 10 million a year just because I'm like I look differently now. I like kind of like you. I like, I still want to make some money for now because I don't want a 5 million in debt. But I can wait and really build that long term and make it over time.
- [19:22]
Garrett J. White
We actually flipped the model too because I tried in the beginning to go down the path of like this ascension model everyone's talking about low to Ryan Dice all these years were like sell the low thing then, then upgrade, then upgrade, then upgrade that upgrade. I was like dude, I'm just too dumb to do this. Like I'm not smart enough to put all this shit together. So I'm just going to flip it upside down. And when they say they're going to go over here at 25k I'm just going to flip the whole funnel and we're going to close all traffic to this one thing and then we're going to sell it. We actually a $10,000 program that would. For six years, we only had one offer. $10,000 live event. That's it.
- [19:58]
Rudy Moore
Well, but. And that's not a way. I think the key is, Ryan, it's like for me too, we probably couldn't do that because when you're selling, like Facebook ad training, your differentiators, the emotion you're changing someone's life, saving a marriage, they're in deep pain, like miserable. Whereas someone that wants a Facebook ad train and like, they're not in that much deep pain. Right. So I think your business plays so perfectly into jumping quicker because you've done such a good job on the psychology level and with the sales mentor, you.
- [20:29]
Garrett J. White
Know, the docuseries you take Facebook markets. If I was running, I'll run an agency for a bit. And if from running agency, it doesn't matter what I'm selling, I can put people into the same emotional pocket. So if you look at this is where people fuck up too. Because when they're looking at selling something, they're looking at the first level of problem solution.
- [20:45]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Garrett J. White
What they're not looking at is a cascading binary effect of that problem. So if I'm talking about I don't know how to do Facebook ads, and I need to learn how to do Facebook ads. If we back that away and say, okay, you learning Facebook ads, how is this affecting your marriage?
- [20:58]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [20:58]
Garrett J. White
How's it affecting your children? How's it affecting your ability to eat right? How's it affecting your body? How's it affecting your certainty in you? So we'll cascade the core for it, which is our words for it, which means I can take somebody, a girl getting $3,000 natural beetle hair, Natural beautiful hair extension. My wife ran the hair industry for the last 10 years. People like 3 to 5,000 get your hair done. Oh, yeah. In less than 60 minutes. I have a woman who's never spent more than $800 on hair. Not only happily pay $5,000 for hair, but at the same time come back every six to eight weeks to redo it for 1500. These are women that will stop paying their car payments before they'll actually stop their hair. Why? Because we created a container with hair that had them feel the benefit. More sensual, more sexual, felt more beautiful. Their marriage was better. So I think a lot of marketers don't go the next level with Their conversation. So they have to start with low ticket.
- [21:47]
Rudy Moore
It's the psychology side, right? It's like the hair is the confidence, right. And the feeling good. And we actually ran an ad. I want to use this ad example because we actually ran a campaign that was ads equal freedom. And we'd explain that ads on about ads. It's about without ads you don't have traffic. And without traffic you don't have sales. And without sales you can't pay your mortgage and you're worrying how to grow your business. And it was the same like psych, you know, go in five layers deep on the psychology. And it does. And we, you know, people would start wearing T shirts and equal freedom. And it was funny because, you know, when you really play that long game and hit the psychological, it's what Trump does, you know. And all the greatest marketers, they play that high level game. I love that.
- [22:28]
Garrett J. White
Well, now requires a level of depth in a marketer and I believe it also requires a care factor. Right? Because if you actually care in marketing, if you, if you know that what you sell works and you know that what you sell can benefit the person deeply, then there is a place of deep pain and darkness. You're willing to take this prospect in your marketing and in your sales conversations that most people will not. Because the cost of them not moving forward in your mind with what you're selling is so grave. The intensity of not buying is life or death. It is life or death. And in our world, my trainers are not, my salesmen are not closers. They're harvesters of souls. So when they get on it, they're coming into this call going, okay, if we don't get this guy shot with everything we have, which means there's nothing we will not say, we will not lie, but we are going to get, we will go as deep and dark as we need to. Most people are competing on the surface level shit. Now you're seeing it with ChatGPT. Everybody's shit's looking the same. Like all the rookies are just, oh, chat, GPT is going to save my life. No, you just sound like a hollow idiot.
- [23:34]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, and I think that's so good because I kind of feel that too. Like I teach my team, I'm like, I make products where I want to grab someone, shake them and say, you need to understand this. Right? And I, a good example of ads to, to, to explain that is people would be like, why are you so passionate about ads? Really? I'm like, well, for four years I wanted to grow an online business. And I didn't know how to get traffic and customers and so I failed. So. And then I figured out how to run ads and my business exploded. I made $1 million and helped thousands of people in fitness selling e books and I love that. And it was very rewarding to see the before and afters. So that kind of goes back to what you're saying. I had that emotional connection to why ads are so important, which seems very silly because ads are just market a marketing tool. But I did have that emotional connection. So I think that's why I became known as an ads guy because I had so much conviction of like, you need ads in your business or you're not going to reach people and you won't sell your product. If you don't sell your product, you can't change lives.
- [24:32]
Garrett J. White
We run media for 12 straight years. Never stopped every day. And guys that are guys that get particularly into the coaching space and the man's face are like, well, how do we get like or anyone? How do we get convicted to do this? And I was like, when you start to see that the skill set or the mechanism is required. And I remember the moment happened for me. I picked up the book by Glenn Livingston, guerilla marketing in 90 days. I'd never really consciously studied marketing before. And I'm sitting in this library at Barnes and Noble back when Barnes Noble is still doing a thing and now most of them are shut down. But as I'm sitting there, I'm reading this and I had this moment, which is, if you control the rain, you control the game. Because I was in 2009 at these events saying speaker, author, networking group, and Ryan Lee and all these other workers were there and they were the dudes in like Chuck Taylor tennis shoes and jeans and hoodies and everybody else is in suits. And these motherfuckers walked around and owned everybody. And I was like, what the hell do these guys know? And they're like, marketing, bro. Gary Vee, crush it with cashing in on your passions. Like, I started reading Tribes by Seth Godin and everything Seth Godin wrote. And I started getting into this marketing mindset of if I want to control my future forever, it is not negotiable to master direct response marketing. There is no, there's no way you can't outsource that skill set. Even if you hire an agency, if you're retarded and don't know what you're doing, they will never be able to fulfill on a dream that you want because It's a collaborative experience with your agency. It's not save me.
- [26:01]
Rudy Moore
Well, I say. I say anyone that makes an agency is going to save them because they won't learn marketing. It's like saying, I'm not going to learn how to be a parent. I'll just hire a nanny for the rest of my life. Like, how stupid would that.
- [26:13]
Garrett J. White
Yeah, people try it.
- [26:14]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:15]
Garrett J. White
Try and bolt. It's probably the same person I was a nanny and an agency. Why do my kids hate in my business failing?
- [26:20]
Rudy Moore
But it is a very empowering feeling. It's like learning to drive a car. You have freedom. Like, when you learn marketing, it's so empowering because you have this, like, confidence now if you want to do a new business, you're like, I know the playbook, right? Like having a freedom of now I can drive to my friend's house when you're 17 or whatever.
- [26:36]
Garrett J. White
Well, this is. Bro. This is why people follow you. It's why people buy from you. It's why they go to you. Because, like, there are. There are people, men just like me. I've been an entrepreneur for almost 10 years. But. And we had marketed, but it was never a conscious. It was like a thing we did at the end. Oh, yeah, we should do some marketing now. The first thing we do is build the frameworks for marketing. What is the pitch? And we'll start running traffic, getting leads before we're even done with the offers. Because we're like, the first thing we have to do is can we get this to bite? But when that flips, they have to. I don't listen. I love to market. I love it. I'm obsessed with it. I fucking hate training on marketing. It's not what I want to do. My guys are asking me to do it all the time, but I'm like, no, please train with Rudy. Please go train with somebody else who loves this shit. God's given him the gift to do this. Don't come to me for this. Yeah, but you know how to do it so good. I was like, just because I know how to do it good doesn't mean I want to teach you. Yeah, yeah, Because I want to do the thing. I'm the best in the world. Marketing is something I had to learn. It's not like I woke up, said, I want to be a marketer. I said, no, no. I want to be a movement maker. And to be a movement maker, you have to know marketing.
- [27:39]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. Every high performer, like, if you play in the NBA, you might play in a position, but you're still world class in all the other positions. That's. The people don't understand.
- [27:47]
Garrett J. White
Yes.
- [27:48]
Rudy Moore
Right.
- [27:48]
Garrett J. White
And that piece, I. I think when. When somebody makes this shift and when they come to programs like yours and they're getting the blueprints, you know what's interesting is you can give somebody the blueprint. I've talked about this with Russell all the time with his books, and Russ said, what do you think? You think I'm giving too much in a book? I was like, bro, you gave him everything in a book. I said, don't worry, they're not going to read it.
- [28:05]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [28:05]
Garrett J. White
And if they do read it, they're not going to do anything with it. This is why anytime I come to was coming up to HL for 10 years of speaking, I didn't come in and train on marketing. They already got to manage that training. I came in and talk about the reason why they're not going to do anything.
- [28:16]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [28:16]
Garrett J. White
It's like, dude, you're not going to do it. I would look at the room. 90%. 90% of you have wasted your entire week.
- [28:22]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. Well, we're also doing it you. Because he ain't that type of guy to go on stage and say, you're a little bitch. Get your head to work.
- [28:28]
Garrett J. White
Right. Like, let me teach you. Perfect webinar. Here we go. Which was perfect. It was wonderful. But the same thing in that tactical space, like, as you as someone makes that internal shift to identity as a marketer. Yeah, you and I, like, we make you. We market a ton. You teach and train on marketing, but marketing is simply taught by you because it's who you are. It's not like, somebody wake up like, oh, dude, I think I'll do marketing. I am marketing. When it becomes your identity, I am a marketer. I am a closer. I am a leader, not a savior. When this becomes identity, then doing marketing is like taking a piss. It's part of life. It's what you do. Yeah, I'm not going to keep my piss inside of me. I'm also not going to keep my message inside of me, which means I got to market.
- [29:10]
Rudy Moore
Well, the identity thing, we could have a whole nother podcast episode on that because that's a prerequisite. You know, I teach my sales team, you know, we have 45 sales reps, and we bring new ones in and out all the time. And half of them I get on a call with. Like, when they join the team, I already know if they're going to be good or not. Because it's like half of them are asleep. I'm like, if you ain't out there, Like I say, Muhammad Ali said he's the greatest before, he's the greatest half. You guys are half asleep on these zoom calls. I know you ain't going to close anything. And then this other guy will join. He's super loud, confident, bold, read everything, ready to go. Watching extra you, I'm like, you're going to close a lot, make a lot of money. And it's like, that's your identity, right? Like how you show up.
- [29:48]
Garrett J. White
The fun part is like, human nature is we can become that, right? So I think a lot of times you think marketers are born, closers are born. Like, there. There are far more people who did not have the natural talent in marketing, who didn't couldn't spell direct response marketing, who couldn't sell anyone on anything. But they made a decision. Yeah, they said, I remember my decision with Brendan Richard, Experts Academy. And I was like, bought. His program is terrified. I'd lost everything. I had 4,000 on my debit card. I had no credit cards. I was in debt millions. My fucking life was falling apart. Jet affair on my wife, she was pregnant with her second daughter. I was a shit show. And I'm watching this video and making a decision. Just like people say every day on your ads, they come to your landing page, they're like, dude, is Rudy my guy? And for many of you, like watching this or listen to podcasts, he is your guy. And the fact that you keep listening to this shit and you don't buy from him is a fucking problem. And it's a problem because you're costing yourself so much because of your indecision. Like, oh, these $2,000, $3,000. Too much, too much. This has nothing to do with question of what he can do and has nothing to do with question whether it needs to be done. It has to do with questioning whether you have the courage to do it. And that was a piece for me. I remember making shivering, shaking my hands, sweaty in my palms. Almost midnight. I didn't realize the clock would still go and I could buy after midnight. I was new to this game, so I was like, fuck, the clock's going down. The clock's going to shut the laptop, open the laptop back up. I got a cat. I knew it. I have to go. I got to learn this shit. And marketing. I got no for like 10 minutes. I was like, 12 seconds. I dropped my fucking debit card. I'm keying the word numbers. In. I'm doing it. I hit the button. It's like. And then it goes. And then I feel nauseous, and I feel excited, and I'm terrified because I got, like, $1,000 left. And I'm like, what have I done? The next morning, I tell my wife I'm going to this event. I have enough money for a Southwest flight to San Diego. I take my backpack with my old ultra running at the time. Had all my shit in my backpack. I slept in the park first night. Somebody gave me a room the second night. And I go to this event. I leave. My wife says, if you go to this event, I'm going to divorce it. But, like, I knew there was no way out. Like, I had to go. And there's people listening to show right now. They're in no way out situations. And you're like, dude, a month's gonna pass. You're gonna keep listening to this podcast. You're gonna keep consuming this content. You're gonna keep doing this shit. We keep sitting on the outside. And every month that goes by, your capacity to make a decision to go goes down.
- [32:07]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, well, good example. I said to my sales team the other day, I'm like, if you guys are in the bottom, like, you're not performing right now, you're at the bottom, you ain't gonna make little changes. All of a sudden, become a top close. You're gonna make big, drastic swings to get out the bottom to the top or even into the middle. So you got to watch your calls and become a totally different person on the calls today. Or you're just going to do the same thing and definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again. So I love that story because that's like, to me, I call it a catalyst. Yes, that was a catalyst for you, that mass.
- [32:37]
Garrett J. White
Now that's what people like. Everybody has their guy.
- [32:40]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [32:40]
Garrett J. White
Like, you're the guy for thousands of people who come to the door and say, you're the. You're my Brendan Burchard moment. Like, guys are sitting right now, men in their 40s, men in their 50s, young dudes in their 20s, young girls in their 20s. And they're like, my life is made for more. And I'm telling you right now, of all the skill sets you can learn, marketing starts at the top. Sales, followers, and leading people. You get those three things nailed, you could do whatever you want the rest of your entire life. Yeah, you don't like how things are going, fuck off. Burn it down. Do something else. You don't like the people you work with. Burn it down. Do something else. You're bored of what you're doing. Burn it down. Do it.
- [33:14]
Rudy Moore
I've done that three times. Free. Free. I could add free. $10 million exits. But all times, you know, now I've learned to at least exit the company, but.
- [33:22]
Garrett J. White
So burn it down is probably selling this.
- [33:24]
Rudy Moore
Probably, yeah. Sell it. Let someone else burn it down.
- [33:26]
Garrett J. White
Somebody else burn it down and sell it. But this. This identity shift that you had, that I've had, that so many have had, it's like once you. Once you have this shift, you can't. Like, there's no going back.
- [33:37]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. Yeah, Love that. So last question, because I don't want to glance over this, tell everyone where they can come witness this live and talk about the event for all about this.
- [33:47]
Garrett J. White
So we have. We have for a couple of years been. Been just low key with our stuff. It's all been our clients behind the scene, my social media representation. Far cry. What actually goes behind the base of what we do at Wake Up Warrior with our teams and our clients. But we finally came together. We're doing something very unique. We brought 10 of the top men's movement makers, guys who've committed at least five to six years of the past of their life, up to 10 years just training men. This is what they do every day. They all know how to market, they know how to sell. They all make tens of millions of dollars doing it. And they lead thousands of men. Put them all together in a room. Me is kind of pointing and leading it together. Me and Dan Fleischman as partners. And we're putting together Man Arena Tour. First stops May 17, Salt Lake City, Utah, here, 2025. We'll do two other stops this year. 7,000 men all in black. If you've never been to a men's event, these are unlike anything you've ever experienced before. The minute you put a couple women in the room, the dynamic changes. Guys get different. But the honesty factor in this is really a catalyst for permission. It's a motivational seminar. It's not a high piece seminar. It is a comprehensive game of transformation. We have done these events for 13 years. And when men come to these places, they become a line of demarc. There's who this guy was before he came, and there's this life this guy builds vertically after he leaves. So God has asked me for a year to put something like this together. And I have kicked against the bricks a bit with it because big events are a pain in the cat. And I did them for years. And they take a massive amount of effort, tons of people on the team so that people don't understand.
- [35:16]
Rudy Moore
Like if people think big events are for you, it's like it ain't for me. Trust me, it's a lot. Hardest way to make money in the whole again business.
- [35:23]
Garrett J. White
If I was, if I was after money, yeah, I would not do exactly. I would do a whole lot of other everything else. Hybrid events, virtual events, sell on event products. Keep it tight. Charge 100, 200, $300,000 for programs. And we do that. But I was like, this for us is a mission. Like there is a. There is an awakening happening on the planet. Men are suffering at numbers they've never seen before. We are watching chaos in marriage, chaos in families. Young boys, teenage boys, 20 something boys, clueless about who to look to as a father figure. And my theory is that the source of our problems is weak men. And if men become powerfully weaponized in their bodies and their being in spirituality with God and balance in their marriage with their kids and wife and inside of their businesses, that life will change. And there's old generation of guys coming to man arena right now that are guys that are not married and they don't have kids. But they're saying, I don't want to live like my dad. I don't want to be like my uncles. I want to do it different. Well, this is the place to come. You'll find more@maninthearnatour.com and we're super stoked about it. And yes, there is a shitload of marketing that goes into this project.
- [36:32]
Rudy Moore
Well, I love it because I do think, you know, just to wrap here, there's such a. We're in this peak right with like you had the old school men where, you know, I grew up in England. My grandparents that fought in the war, my grandma made hand grenades. Yeah. As this old school way. But then you like kind of. We went full circle. Now you got all these, you know, people that are so weak so in, they won't take action. They'll just complain all the time. And like there's the middle. You know this. Yeah.
- [36:59]
Garrett J. White
If you merge the hardcore work ethic and grind of the old generation with the modern tech and savvy of a modern generation and you take the consciousness of modern generation married against the unconsciousness of the old world and you merge these two worlds together, what you have is a new world and what you have is a new revival. What you have is a whole breed of men who will lead women, lead themselves, lead their children, lead the marketplace, lead their teams, lead their companies from a totally different place. And the fun part is the outcome of all of this 100% of the time is prosperity.
- [37:31]
Rudy Moore
No, I love it because. Yeah, I mean, we just, we jumped over the middle, right? It's very interesting. So I love that and I will try and get there myself. So, guys, go check out the event. I mean, personal development wise, no matter what position you're in, you're going to get value. I'm going to try and make it in between my Amazon shoot, so hopefully I can jump across. And I'll have to finally not wear red too. I'll put a red T shirt on underneath a black T shirt. But, dude, thank you so much. Lots of great combo. There. Marketing, personal development, and pretty much everything else. So go buy a ticket. I'll see you there at the event. Thank you, buddy. Guys, take care. Keep living the red life. I'll see you soon.