How a Math PhD Is Fixing Education

Summary

Podcast Summary: Living The Red Life

Episode: How a Math PhD Is Fixing Education

Host: Rudy Mawer
Guest: Dr. Aditya Nagrath, Founder of Elephant Learning
Date: June 9, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the journey and mission of Dr. Aditya Nagrath, a mathematician and education reformer working to revolutionize math education through his platform, Elephant Learning. The conversation delves into the importance of conceptual math education, the pitfalls of the current system, and how innovative, game-based approaches can measurably accelerate students’ mathematical growth. Rudy and Aditya also discuss the deeper philosophical role of math in life, the underlying “language gap” that holds many students back, and the potential for math-driven learning to unlock broader academic success and self-belief.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Language of Mathematics and Education Reform

• Math as a Language:
  Aditya frames mathematics as a language, arguing that math struggles often begin with a language gap as early as kindergarten. If a child can't follow the abstract vocabulary in class, it sets them up for years of difficulty.

  “Most students coming into kindergarten have a challenge counting to 10. And kindergarten kind of starts at two digit numbers, and so that language gap exacerbates over time.” – Aditya (00:20)

• The Importance of Algebra:
  Algebra is highlighted as the basic literacy of mathematics—the mathematical equivalent to third-grade reading—for participating in STEM fields and beyond.

  “I think that people have to be versed in algebra... It's the equivalent of the third-grade reading level for mathematics.” – Aditya (03:28)

2. The Elephant Learning Approach: Conceptual & Personalized

• Gamification and Personalization:
  Elephant Learning uses puzzle games that adapt to each student’s understanding, connecting concrete activities to abstract math concepts.

  “Everything happens through puzzle games. So it feels kind of like an Angry Birds, but for mathematics.” – Aditya (09:32)

• Proven Results:
  The system guarantees measurable improvement—students gain at least a year of math in just 10 minutes a day, three days a week for 10 weeks.

  “We get a guarantee that students will learn at least one year of math using our system, 30 minutes per week... After 10 weeks, what we measure is about a year and a half of gain.” – Aditya (00:00, 10:21)

• Storytelling & Abstraction:
  By tying mathematical ideas to stories and puzzles, students can intuitively grasp core concepts, transforming math from a rote, utilitarian task into a creative, engaging pursuit.

  “When you start turning these ones and twos into actual stories... now we’ve turned it into a story, but the science is still the source.” – Rudy (08:05)

3. Critique of Traditional Math Education

• Outdated Teaching Methods:
  Math instruction hasn’t meaningfully changed in centuries; Elephant Learning builds on modern conceptual learning research to accelerate understanding.

  “Mathematics has been taught the same way for thousands and thousands of years. And it could be that no one’s really sat down to think about how to teach in a different way.” – Aditya (06:34)

• The School System and Equity:
  The approach is not just for advanced learners; it's designed to help all students, particularly those left behind by traditional methods.

  “Four out of five students are actually behind in mathematics. What we try to do is we try to help catch them up, but for younger students, we're able to get them ahead.” – Aditya (12:30)

4. Philosophical and Personal Perspectives

• Math in Life and Society:
  Aditya and Rudy muse on the omnipresence of mathematics in the world and its philosophical nature.

  “Most professions, most activities that people engage in, they're kind of mathematical in nature always. But most of the time we don't approach it that way.” – Aditya (02:14)

• Self-Perception and Communication:
  Aditya shares how approaching the world—whether words or equations—with philosophical precision brings him peace and clarity, but can be misunderstood in social contexts.

  “That actually does create a lot of peace and calm in my life because the vagueness of the words is where I found that things become more emotionally charged.” – Aditya (15:57)

---

Memorable Quotes

• On Conceptual Learning:
  “It's teaching mathematics as a language. And it’s like this red room. If you were teaching a child the color red, you’re going to show them a lot of red things and they're gonna have to infer that what you're speaking about is the color red. But with mathematics, it's a little more abstract because you can’t see it.” – Aditya (07:13)

• On Education & Life:
  “There’s math in everything…God is a big equation.” – Rudy (01:45)

• On the Student’s Journey:
  “They weren’t just struggling with mathematics, but they were struggling with school altogether. And after they came through your system, not only did they do better at mathematics, they did better at all subjects.” – Aditya (05:29)

• On Philosophy and Language:
  “The vagueness of the words is where I found that things become more emotionally charged.” – Aditya (15:57)

---

Notable Segment Timestamps

• 00:00 – Guarantee of math gains: “We measure about a year and a half of gain”
• 03:28 – Algebra as the foundation for all higher math and daily reasoning
• 06:34 – Why traditional math teaching fails and how Elephant Learning is different
• 09:01 – Game-based, personalized learning explained
• 10:21 – Details on the workload (10 minutes/day, 3x/week) and proven results
• 12:30 – Who Elephant Learning helps and the scope of the math gap
• 13:47 – Origins of the name and the pivotal language gap in early education
• 14:25 – How early math challenges snowball into long-term academic struggles
• 15:02 – Perspectives on thinking differently (“How does a math PhD see the world?”)
• 16:34 – The emotional charge of language and how math can clarify thinking
• 19:25 – Where to find more information: elephantlearning.com

---

Useful Links & Next Steps

• Elephant Learning: elephantlearning.com
• Aditya Nagrath on LinkedIn: Search “Aditya Nagrath” for more background and updates

---

Conclusion

Dr. Aditya Nagrath’s approach with Elephant Learning is both innovative and deeply human, focused on bridging the early “language gap” that so often sets students up for lifelong struggles with math. By couching math in story, play, and adaptability, the system offers both measurable academic improvement and a newfound confidence in one’s abilities—fulfilling Rudy’s vision of “living the legacy” through transformative education.

Transcript

[A]

We get a guarantee that students will learn at least one year of math using our system, 30 minutes per week. So it's 10 minutes per day, three days per week. After 10 weeks, what we measure is about a year and a half of gain. Aditya Nagrath is a visionary, innovative and influential mathematician and education reformer who is

[B]

the founder of Elephant Learning, a platform

[A]

transforming math education through conceptual learning. Most students coming into kindergarten have a challenge counting to 10. And kindergarten kind of starts at two digit numbers, and so that language gap exacerbates over time. If you came into kindergarten able to understand the teacher, then the education system really actually works very well for you. But if you didn't, you kind of struggle all the way along. And my name's Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life Podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill, take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your life.

[B]

Welcome back to another episode of the Living the Legacy podcast, the Red Life edition. We're moments away from filming another episode of Legacy Makers. Today, our featured guest is Aditya Negrath. Did I butcher that or how did I do that?

[A]

You did pretty good.

[B]

Oh, right on. Cool. I appreciate that affirmation after several hundred episodes. My friend of podcasting, welcome to the show.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

Is this the most reddest set that you've been in?

[A]

I think so, yeah. Cool. Red.

[B]

I'm pretty sure reddest is not even a word, my friend. We're moments away of filming your Legacy Makers episode. What will we learn? Give us the preview.

[A]

There's a lot, I think, but I. I'm hoping that people learn how important mathematics is.

[B]

Oh, dude.

[A]

And I'm hoping that people learn to believe in themselves.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's beautiful how belief and mathematics. There's math in everything. There's math and music. There's math in the code to the code of the source. That everything connects us all. When did you find out the magic behind the numbers? When did you find your calling? That there's numbers everywhere? Yeah. That God is a big equation.

[A]

It's hard actually to realize how important mathematics is until you sit down and think about it, because most professions, most activities that people engage in, they're kind of mathematical in nature always. But most of the time we don't approach it that way. So a lot of professions are, are based on experience. But I think that when you start to look deeper, what it really is is a. Is, is a type of applied mathematics. And so it happens to be just about everywhere. But at the same time, no one can pinpoint where do I use it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

In everyday life I got to ask

[B]

for a friend where in school systems, you know, there's basic math, multiplications, geometry, algebra, and then you start getting into calculus. You start getting into the really nitty gritty stuff about math, or almost like math equals life. As a person that enjoys math, where do you think is enough for the human person to survive day to day? Is it just good enough math? What is good enough math? To get along, to get by? I would say.

[A]

I think that people have to be versed in algebra. I think that algebra is a good primer. Great is the equivalent of the third grade reading level for mathematics. And the reason why is because when you start to get into other sciences, such as biology, physics, any of your STEM majors really.

[B]

Yes sir.

[A]

The language is actually happening inside of algebra. And so then these other techniques or these other tools such as calculus and etcetera, Those are also kind of happening on top of algebra. But like, the challenge is that it's harder to determine where it's being applied as much as algebra, since algebra is just about everywhere.

[B]

Right on. Where do you come into play? Into the, into the, into the pool of numbers. Where does your journey start?

[A]

Well, so I've got a PhD in math and computer science. Our system starts with counting and then goes through algebra. So what we do is we treat mathematics as a language.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

And by doing that, what we're hoping to do is we're hoping to get the student to understand the teacher in the classroom. Because if we can do that, then the student can participate in class and actually math time becomes fun. So instead of something where it's like, when am I going to use this? It turns into something like, well, this is an interesting problem to solve.

[B]

Yeah, it stops being utilitarian and now becomes like an art form. How difficult is that? Do you see a lot of resistance where folks are like, what? And then they have that eureka moment. Talk about some, some, some journeys that some people use transformed because of math.

[A]

So like, I mean, because these things are occurring as language, I don't think there's a lot of struggle behind it because you're talking about the concrete thing that's happening underneath the numbers. Right. So like give me five things, give me four more things.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That's the exhibition of addition. You see what I'm saying?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

And so People don't struggle so much with it in our system. And I think that we've heard story after story of a student that's come through. Just last week I was in Orlando and someone told me that my daughter was struggling with mathematics. They went through your system. They weren't just struggling with mathematics, but they were struggling with school altogether. And after they, they came through your system, not only did they do better at mathematics, they did better at all subjects.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And. And they were no longer struggling with school. School was easy for them.

[B]

Right on. Is it a lot of. I feel like that's a lot of gunk you removed. Like, the school system is obviously, well, not perfect, but it's still a system that we kind of need to create. You know, our future leaders of America are. Fill in the blank. Is your program far more advanced or are you kind of like, you know, figuring out the good crops versus the bad crops? Like, how are you up advancing education when it comes to, like the way it's done the old fashioned way versus how you're doing it?

[A]

Well, I mean, I think that the idea is that mathematics has been taught the same way for thousands and thousands of years. And it could be that no one's really sat down to think about how to teach in a different way. And, and it wasn't even really me that started this. It was these professors out of the school of Education over at the University of Denver. They have all these activities that were designed to teach math conceptually. And that's, that's kind of the same idea as teaching mathematics as a language. It's just, it sounds a lot better in a research paper to say I'm teaching it conceptually.

[B]

Sure. Or on a podcast.

[A]

But really what it is, is it's teaching mathematics as a language. And it's like this red room. Right. So like if you were teaching a child the color red, you're going to show them a lot of red things and they're going to have to infer that what you're speaking about is the color red. But with mathematics, it's a little bit more abstract because you can't see it. Right. When you do the addition piece. Yeah. You're talking about that idea of more. Right. Give me five, give me four more things. And, and the quantities. Right. So like the same idea is you have to show them four of the same thing. Right. And they have to infer that the 4 is referring to the quantity.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

And so like this, this kind of shift gets them to understand what's happening rather Than just repeat the calculations over and over and over again.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Until they get it.

[B]

That's awesome. It's almost. You just saying that kind of gave me the realization, like, numbers are the constant. Like, you just saying that story. I can kind of see the thought bubbles and my thought bubble kicking in. A one and a two will always look like a one or a two, but when you start turning these ones and twos into actual stories. Now, my version of that math is completely different from your version of that math, because now we've turned it into a story, but the science is still the source. It's quite interesting. Yeah. Like, how do you approach folks on the interwebs? How do you get folks to sign up? Are you telling stories? Are you doing math music videos? I actually have a former mentor and client that has turned math and turned them into music videos. And it's for kids, and it's a new way of teaching where it's through music. You're doing it through storytelling. Gosh. How do you approach this now? Through social media? Are you sitting in front of a camera telling stories? That equates the math? What's your approach?

[A]

So the. The system is occurring through puzzle game. What we did was we took the activities that the researchers already found to be most effective at teaching mathematics conceptually, and then we combined it with algorithms that are able to quickly determine what does a student understand and not understand, and then. And then adjust the system to their level of understanding. So it's a very personalized experience. But everything happens through the puzzle games. So it feels kind of like an Angry Birds, but for mathematics.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

And then. But basically they solve the puzzle. In solving the puzzle, they're exhibiting the idea, and then we're trying to label it right afterwards. So, like, give me five things. Give me four more things.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

How many do I have now they get it right. They say five plus four equals nine. And that's the whole idea, is, can you connect that idea, that activity with the written mathematics that you're seeing in the classroom?

[B]

That's amazing. What do you. What do you talk to? How do you talk to folks that are using games like Roblox, you know, or even Fortnite, to where they're essentially creating universes? Is there a form, if that is that form of storytelling? Would you say, where it's far more visual and they're grabbing those four blocks and then moving them here and creating nine. But out of those nine blocks, they created a house. Like, is there. Is that. Does that kind of Is that sort of the same ballpark with what you. What you do?

[A]

Well, so, like, our system was designed mainly to be effective. So the way that we're approaching it is that we've got a guarantee that students will learn at least one year of math using our system. 30 minutes a day. After three months. Not. Sorry, not 30 minutes a day. 30 minutes per week. So it's 10 minutes per day, three days per week. After 10 weeks, what we measure is about a year and a half of gain.

[B]

Wow, those are great numbers. How do you know? Is there. Is there something the child or the person reads that kind of triggers their brain to be into that mode, to be far more receptive to. To. To what you're here, you're uploading.

[A]

Yeah. The idea was, was that, like, yeah, if we could make it extremely effective so that it's just 10 minutes per day.

[B]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[A]

Then you don't have a lot of the challenges of, like, oh, but this is going to take hours.

[B]

Yeah. The neglect, the resistance. Yeah, all sorts of things.

[A]

Whereas with the Roblox or something like that, you know, you're gonna. You're gonna invest a lot of time, but the effectiveness is not necessarily there. So. But if you spend hours with it, you're probably gonna get the same as our system.

[B]

Sure, sure. But it's like you're in a. In a creative dopamine fuzz as opposed to articulate, precise cutting. And you've got the right cutting tools and you're cutting out the fat and you're just being precise. Yeah, understood. Very, very, very cool. Who. What is the age range? Are you going straight to schools or just folks finding you and they're on their new adventure and helping to. Are you ascending? Folks like myself that just want to unlock parts of their brain. Who is your clientele?

[A]

So most of our clients are parents. Right on. We cover from counting through algebra. So that's actually students of all ages, but mainly aimed at K through 8.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

And we are going into schools now. So we have a, I don't know, 100 classrooms probably around the country. Maybe more, maybe less. It's really hard for me to tell because they all sign up online and we're also approaching districts. So, like, if we can get in at a district level, then that's. Multiple schools affected.

[B]

Well, yeah, that's. That's awesome. Is this for. For every. For everyone. For every district, or are you just looking for specific verticals and specific niches? Like specific parents are looking for something for their child.

[A]

Well, I mean, four out of five students are actually behind in mathematics.

[B]

Oh yeah, I'm still behind on mathematics.

[A]

What we try to do is we try to help catch them up, but for younger students, we're able to get them ahead. And that basically is everybody, when you look at it. Right. Because either you're caught up or you're not caught up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when we're aiming at schools, it tends to be geographic based. The strategy.

[B]

Right on. That's awesome, man. How can people learn more about you and discover you? Sure.

[A]

Well, I'd [e-mail] that's where you can find out about the software and you can get your kids to mathematics. And there's a lot about me on there as well. But if you go to LinkedIn, search me, you'll find me right on. And that's probably the best place.

[B]

So Elephant Academy of Mathematics.

[A]

Elephant Learning Math Academy.

[B]

Let's talk about the name, the why an elephant? The whole process of as to how you created this.

[A]

I mean, the name came from Elephant Head Software. That was the software company that we had started. And that was mainly contract software engineering. So at the time, what it was was I had met with a professor of mine who had told me four out of five students are starting kindergarten unprepared.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

For the kindergarten curriculum.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And that was hard to believe. So I asked him, you know, how is that even possible? What does that even mean?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

And that's when he started to explain this language gap to me. So he said, most students coming into kindergarten have a challenge counting to 10 and kindergarten kind of starts at two digit numbers. And so that language gap kind of exacerbates over time. And what we see is that if you came into kindergarten able to understand the teacher, then the education system really actually works very well for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you didn't, you kind of struggle all the way along. And then that's the real challenge is that 69% of STEM majors end up switching to a major with less mathematics.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so that's a really tough statistic given that everyone's going in thinking I'm going to come out with one of them high paying STEM jobs and then they switch and then you kind of end up in some of these majors where the mathematics don't work out anymore.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When it comes down to the loan versus how much you're paying for the education and what the starting salary is.

[B]

Right on. Let's talk about, you know, we're wrapping up here, but I want to talk about your. Your daily affirmations. You know, someone that is a genius in math or that has that PhD. It's got to be difficult being normal. Like, how do you perceive the world? Is it a little different? Do you kind of have like a chip on your shoulder where it's like, well, that's mathematically impossible because of that, do you. Do you operate more as less than pinky, more as brain when you're trying to dominate the world?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting question. So first, it's hard for me to determine how other people are perceiving the

[B]

world,

[A]

but I don't. I don't think I'm walking around thinking that like. Like, oh, that's mathematically impossible. Mainly because most people are not trying to hand me things that are mathematically impossible.

[B]

I'd be handing you all sorts of things also. Like, solve this. Wow. Yeah. I wouldn't even know if you're right or wrong, dude.

[A]

I know what you mean.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

But I do tend to look at the world from a more philosophical view. So I try to look at what are the definitions of the words? What are the implications of all of it? Are we matching the definitions? And that actually does create a lot of peace and calm in my life because the vagueness of the words is where I found that things become more emotionally charged is if you don't, you know, like, again, children are learning the words through inference. And so, like, the words are being used in an emotional context or in a story that's going on, which is the story of their life.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

And that then puts this positive or negative connotation on the word for most people. And so then that's the challenge, is that what words are positive for one person could be negative for a completely different person.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

And that's. That's conflict, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The scariest part is, is that if I say, well, let's just look at the definition of the word, a lot of people consider that starting a fight.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's impolite to start asking those kind of questions. I'm just kind of giggling here because I'm like. I remember having a difficult time doing a lot of things when I was in first and second grade. I couldn't. I could barely spell. But at the same time, I was also an ESO kid, so I could barely speak English. And so I have an English teacher speaking very loudly at me. And then I go home and everyone speaks very loudly. So I don't know What's a positive or a negative? Because we're all Cuban and everything's yelling at each other and everyone's always upset and I'm having caffeine way too early. Clearly it's taking an effect at me very years later. But I hear all of these key words. I'm like, holy shit. A lot of folks that grew up in my circles are or now are having children. Their legacies were kind of in this spew of noise where it's kind of like cathartically, tragically beautiful. But at the same time, if we just had a little bit of you, a little bit of the math, a little bit of the science, I feel like some of these folks had a better chance of ascending to greater things, if that makes any sense. Cool. I am very grateful for folks like you. I feel like you are the balance to life. We need folks that are just know the math, know the numbers, are in it constantly and can just pull up magic and go, well, that mathematically happened because I said so, because I know the numbers. That's how life works, right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of the things that, like we're engineering.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And, and the math is not really happening so much in the numbers as it's happening in the ideas per se. But that's where like the challenge is, is that before you can get to that level of the mathematics that you have to have that basic understanding to build on top of to get there, to be able to pull out some of the magic like the AI that's happening or the, or, or like building a bridge. Right. Like, we know this is not going to fall down because the physics of it's.

[B]

There's rules. That's what I was trying to find, the rules of life. If we're not just whimsically just bouncing through a galaxy, there is rules. There's. There's set.

[A]

There's an order that's underlying everything. Correct. Behind, or maybe going against the chaos.

[B]

Right on. Going against the chaos. Welcome to the chaos. Welcome to the red life, sir. How can people learn more about you? Find you again. I want to hear that website one more time. Sure.

[A]

It's elephant learning dot com.

[B]

Elephant learning dot com, my friend. The. The. The master elephant and the master learner here. Give us your name one more time. I want to hear you say, because I will botch it.

[A]

Aditya Negra.

[B]

Beautiful. And I am Ronaldo Gutierrez. And we are inside. Success.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

Oh, man. Thank you, brother. I hope you had a good time.