Loading summary
Transcript69 lines
- [00:00]
Rudy Moore
My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill, take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your life. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. Today we're going to dive into the world of tech and how to use tech to actually grow companies faster. Joining me today is one of the world's top experts on that behind the scenes running the tech of some of the biggest companies on the planet. Kickstarter, Kajabi, Amazon, Alexa, so no one better to answer their question and talk all about the tech side of what we do in entrepreneurship and business. Mahesh, welcome to the show.
- [00:45]
Mahesh Goswamy
Happy to be here.
- [00:47]
Rudy Moore
Good. So I set you up for hopefully success here. Some big boots to step into, right? Some of these big. You've done a lot, but if someone doesn't know who you are, do you mind just giving a minute overview of yourself?
- [01:00]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, sure, sure. So my name is Mahesh Goswamy. I'm currently the CTO of Kickstarter. Been in the software development space for about 20 some years. First 10 years was individual contributor, middle level management. Last 10 years have been in executive roles. Also work for pre IPO companies. IPO companies, early stage startups and everything in the middle and great.
- [01:27]
Rudy Moore
And you know, you work for some of the biggest companies on the planet. So I want to start there. Like what are just some of the biggest lessons from work? Not even tech lessons, just general, like from working with these like super high performing billion dollar brands.
- [01:43]
Mahesh Goswamy
I think the single biggest lesson that I've learned is don't start with the no. So don't start with no. It is not possible to do X, Y and Z. I fired tech people.
- [01:56]
Rudy Moore
Over that one exact thing in my life because it kills creative energy as an entrepreneur and a founder.
- [02:04]
Mahesh Goswamy
Right? That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And you know, the most successful companies that I work for, Amazon, Kajabi, Kickstarter, have all been, you know, slightly crazy, Right? You have to be a little bit crazy to believe that he can do the things that these companies pulled off.
- [02:20]
Rudy Moore
Really have to be crazy. I say I'm delusional because I believe in my ideas so much. It's a borderline insane.
- [02:28]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's what I tell. Like up and coming leaders, up and coming executives. Don't start with the no. Especially if you have aspirations to get into the executive C suite. You cannot tell a founder.
- [02:38]
Rudy Moore
No.
- [02:38]
Mahesh Goswamy
You cannot tell a successful CEO no. You can't do this. With enough money and time, I can move. Move the planet. Right?
- [02:46]
Rudy Moore
Yeah.
- [02:46]
Mahesh Goswamy
And that's the attitude you should have.
- [02:48]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, that's what I tell them too. You know, like, you're obviously probably a smarter tech person than many that I've had to hire and fire, but every time, you know that, it's probably like one of the biggest disruptors to me. When someone says that in my team and I always, you know, my staff know I have this ongoing kind of joke now, if anyone says noms, I always say, so you're telling me Elon Musk can fly to space and bring a rocket straight back, but you can't integrate and zap this data thing here?
- [03:17]
Mahesh Goswamy
It's so funny. Yeah, it's so funny because I've used the exact same analogy with my teams too. You says if somebody tells me this, take me six months or nine months, like, Elon has spent rockets to, like, space in that time. So why can't we get this thing done, like, sooner? So I'm with the.
- [03:34]
Rudy Moore
Well, I like that. And look, but I think. Let's talk about this for a second, because that is the difference between winners and losers in business. And I think overall life is a lot of people are looking at what can't happen or what could go wrong or why it can't happen. But the most successful people on the planet are looking at how can we make it happen? Right. And how do we look at optimistic setting versus a pessimistic setting?
- [03:59]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's right. That's right. I think Archimedes said this. Right. A long enough lever, you can move the earth. So. So I, I believe in it.
- [04:06]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. So how. How do you juggle? Let's, you know, it's a great transition. Because I do think the hardest part with entrepreneur and tech is that, you know, you need to have that crossover and great teamwork because the entrepreneur has a million ideas. And some of those ideas, I always joke with my team, it takes me five seconds to come up with an idea, and then like 50 hours or 500 hours to build. Right. So how should entrepreneurs work with their tech team?
- [04:35]
Mahesh Goswamy
Well, I think my. My usual MO Is doing a little bit of research upfront with customers because, you know, I have a thousand ideas and, like, 90% of them could be garbage. So.
- [04:47]
Rudy Moore
Right, that's the thing.
- [04:49]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's the thing. So I don't, like, mobilize my team to go build something until I have some level of conviction that, that this is going to work for our customers. So I talk to customers, I always have a small group of motivated customers who I can go to and ask feedback from. And when directionally the feedback is positive, then you build something which is like an mvp is like duct tape and a small thing that you get it out, test it and if it works, then you release it to the entire world and keep scaling. I don't believe in building the Ferrari and then trying to sell it. I'll build a Pinto and then see if there's an interest in it and then like scale it up to something much more expensive.
- [05:30]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. Or, or what we do and what Elon does is you build the like a fake model of a Ferrari or a mock. That's right. Like, and then build it with the money that you made from pre selling it.
- [05:42]
Mahesh Goswamy
Right, that's right, that's right.
- [05:44]
Rudy Moore
That's right. Yeah. And I do think, you know, tech and especially, you know, I, I, I, I've owned and co owned and had equity in a few software companies, but never been like, I've always sold products that I think are faster. You know, courses, coaching, education, communities, supplements, E commerce. Right. And some pretty well. I scaled econ brands to a million dollars a day. So big numbers. Whenever I've been part of a software company and I've done a few iterations, I've always found it's like as a marketer I'm like, hey, we need these 10 things to sell this. Better hooks and unique selling points. And then the tech team, you know, and the software companies at least are like, oh yeah, we'll put that on the two year roadmap. Right. So how, how do you balance that for software companies?
- [06:35]
Mahesh Goswamy
Well, I think it, I think it comes down to prioritization is, is what I would say. There's always going to be a thousand different things to do. So as leaders you have to like realize what is most important and, and figure out like what to put it in the top of the list and what to like put at the bottom of the list. I think the other dynamic that's playing out, and I know my network will hate me for saying that, is software development is becoming commoditized faster and faster and faster. Right. It is not a hard to learn skill as it was 10, 15 years ago. And if engineers and product managers and everybody else in tech feels like they have special skills that seem to think a reckoning is coming, it's like everything now.
- [07:19]
Rudy Moore
Like, you know, we were talking with my team, marks and team today we went from nine copywriters to two.
- [07:25]
Mahesh Goswamy
All right.
- [07:26]
Rudy Moore
With more than ever because of AI and my design team, like even me now in Photoshop it's like, oh, I really love this photo. My video team, Creative talk. But it needs to be portrait for Instagram or I can just drag it in Photoshop and click AI generate and it now creates the sky and the ground. So I. Whereas that would have been a two hour Photoshop edit from my designer before. So, you know, and this drives. I always talk about Amazon, where you live in a world where everyone wants stuff now they want it. Yeah. Instacart, I get my groceries now. UberEats, I get my food now. Uber, I get a taxi now. Netflix, I get to watch my movies now.
- [08:07]
Mahesh Goswamy
Killed boy, right?
- [08:09]
Rudy Moore
I think it's going to be the same for everything that comes after that. Easy consumer stuff is like, well, software, there's out the box solutions now and you don't have to custom code it all from ground up maybe.
- [08:21]
Mahesh Goswamy
Right, that's right, that's right, that's right. And this like, I think software teams have, you know, aversion to sometimes buying something off the shelf and like deploying it. And I actively tell my teams, let's get it out, let's get feedback and see, see how it behaves in the market before, before investing too much time in it. So it's 100% right. I think as long as the US is a consuming economy, it's always going to be, I want stuff today, I don't want to wait. I think it's always going to be that case.
- [08:52]
Rudy Moore
It's going to get, I think it's going to get worse because it's like they're going to have Amazon drones dropping stuff off. More stuff's off online. Right. Is going to do more for you. So I think it's actually going to get way more aggressive next couple of decades and then it will maybe balance out, you know, that you're going to be able to, I saw the other day, you're going to be able to fly from London to New York in an hour and a half, right?
- [09:16]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, yeah, I believe that. I believe that.
- [09:21]
Rudy Moore
So, so back to the tech side. What, what are some of the biggest, you know, lessons from being part of these companies growing, right? Like core things. Like if you were starting out as an entrepreneur now, you've worked in some of the best businesses on the planet with probably some of the best people on the planet. If you were an entrepreneur that's brand new, what would be Some general tips you've seen from these companies growing.
- [09:48]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, I'll start with Amazon because I think Amazon had a profound impact on me as a person and as a leader. The secret sauce for Amazon is its leadership principles. So I think everybody looks at the output of what Amazon produces, but the way the teams behave is in lockstep. And a lot of it, like 100% of it is guided by the leadership principles, which is if you go to the Amazon's career side, there's like a 10 or 12 leadership principles. I think they've changed it over the years, but like dive deep, deliver results, think big, disagree and commit. Like, every single person at Amazon behaves the same way and it makes it very, very easy to ship software. Everybody thinks the same way. So I think the leadership principles were a reflection of Jeff from the early days and his executive team. And a lot of that is funneled into like the way Amazon behaves and builds products. So that's, number one, have a strong set of, you know, like, like, for example, you have a company, so you should have like a list of tenants for your team. This is how Rudy thinks. This is what made me successful. And I want all of you to behave like this and you even recruit people who will sort of show those skills. That's number one. The other one that I think you mentioned it, Kajabi's secret sauce is its community. It is a, you know, they have. There are raving fans who like gather together to talk about Kajabi and how to use the product and how to make like your first sale, how to build your first email list, etc. And Kajabi pays a lot of attention to that community. So any entrepreneur, you know, if they want to be successful in like selling products or services or their own time, they have to build a community. Without community, like nothing exists today. So that I would say is Kajabi and Kickstarter. I think the biggest takeaway for me is Kickstarter came about in a time when it was hard to fund arts projects, music projects, et cetera. And Perry and the founders, they're like, well, we don't believe in traditional venture capital funding, so we're going to do this other thing. And so think outside the box. Like, you know, you don't have to pattern match because every other leader or executive or company is doing the same thing. And, you know, resist against pattern matching and do something which is, which is creative. So I would say have a strong sense of what made you successful and make sure you build your team the Same way that that exhibits those same principles. Pay attention to community. And three is go against the grain is what I would say.
- [12:28]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, so I, I love that. A follow up question which may be a question out of those three big companies, right, including Kickstarter now, what's one principle that you've seen across all of them that you would better in pretty much every big billion dollar brand or successful company?
- [12:49]
Mahesh Goswamy
I would say obsess over customers is what I would say is the common theme across all these companies that have made them successful. Like work. Start with the customer and work backwards. Like what does your customer want? What are their pain points? What do they wake up thinking? What do they go to bed thinking? And if you understand that then you can basically build billion dollar brands. And that's how Amazon did it, that's how know all these other companies did it.
- [13:15]
Rudy Moore
But let's go down that rabbit hole a little then. So I heard that how, how do I start? How do I do that? If I'm a new entrepreneur, I would.
- [13:24]
Mahesh Goswamy
Say, you know, I advise a lot of startups on the side. So people ask me advice on hey, I'm building this product, like what do you think about this? And my, my advice to all of them would be talk to your customers first. If you can't find 10 people to give you feedback on your idea, you're probably not going to be super successful as an entrepreneur. Right? So find those 10, 20, 50 fans of yours or free idea who are like behind you. And I do the same way for my network too. So you find your fans, ask them for feedback, draw them like a little sketch of this is what I'm thinking. What do you think about this? And you'll be surprised at how many people will volunteer their time to go talk to come talk to you because they're passionate about the project you're working on. So I would say like that's the number one thing. Talk to your customers before investing any time or money into an idea.
- [14:19]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, I really want to like echo that because you know I, my coaching program's an agency. We've worked with thousands of businesses and startups, you know a lot in that zero to million and like half a mil to 10 mil range is kind of most people I work with and the amount of them that get on a zoom with me, right, they join my community or program, they're three years into the business, they're still only making a couple of hundred grand a year. They tell me what their product is and I'm like, you know, I'M like, it just doesn't sound that great. Like it. And they kind of like, I mean, the problem is they like get an idea one way. They're kind of, kind of passionate about it and they like stumble into it and they never like, maybe rain check themselves and go like, is could this be a $20 million company? Right? Like, and I think I, I've, as an entrepreneur, I've created lots of companies to a few million, some to 10 million. And I'm constantly jumping to the next big thing. And you have to evolve because I think the first thing you start on isn't going to be the, the thing that makes you all your money. But a lot of them just stick to it, right? They just get, they don't actually take a step back and go, is this the right thing I should be doing?
- [15:35]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's right, that's right, that's right. And you have limited time on this planet, so you have to make it count.
- [15:40]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. And I think, you know, the entrepreneurs are, they're like the master, right. I always say they're the all star. So they can easily go start a new product or launch something new if they're great. And sometimes they should self evaluate and then I think second time around, do what you say, right? Like now you've got the soft skills of marketing and business and hiring. Those things like actually look like, does this fit the criteria of a good company in a product? Right. Does it have big demand? Somewhat of a blue ocean and unique? Right. Is what's the addressable market size? How saturated is the market? Right. Like what other companies have done similar.
- [16:24]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's right, that's right, that's right. Most people, and it's, it's kind of interesting to observe it. Most people will not Google their product idea to see if their competitors in the market. That's the very first thing I do when somebody reaches out to me for advice or venture capital funding. I will Google their product, other ideas if there are other competitors and their pitch deck doesn't have a competitor slide. I'm like, well, you haven't thought through this fully.
- [16:49]
Rudy Moore
Well, it's funny because I actually. Yeah, now you say it because one of the first things I ask when someone hires us or comes on our group programs, I go, what are some of the biggest competitors in your space? What ads are they running? What funnels? What price point? And half the time I say, I don't know. And I'm like, what do you mean you don't know? Like that's like, you know, it's like I always say, I'm like, that's the breadcrumb trail that you can like follow, you know, and then you just create a new vent, you know, halfway once you get down the trail somewhat.
- [17:18]
Mahesh Goswamy
So that's right. And back, back, going back to Amazon, like that was drilled into my head. So if I ever presented or anybody presented an idea with a, with the competitive aspect of it, like left out, you would get skewered. Because question would be, well, we know Google is doing this, we know Microsoft is doing this. Why is this not in this proposal? Like, what are you doing against, you know, to compete against these competitors?
- [17:46]
Rudy Moore
Well, it's common sense. They've already invested at that level. They've already invested billions of dollars or tens or hundreds of millions into that venture. Right. So it's like, well, let's see what they figured out along the way and where they're at and save us three years and 100 million in so, so. But I think it's interesting because I think some entrepreneurs don't do it because they almost feel like it's copying or they shouldn't or it's unethical. But it's like that's just business. Right. Like, do you agree that's just like, you know, and then copy someone's idea? But you should be doing market research on the industry.
- [18:23]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, exactly. I think it's not copying it. One, it shows that having competitors actually good sign that the market is healthy, there's space for you to compete. That's number one. Number two, it shows that you have done your research. And I think you mentioned that phrase when we were talking, what is the blue ocean here? If it is a competitive market, what are you doing to navigate this path, to find a blue ocean in this ocean you're in? So I think it's just English common sense. I think most entrepreneurs, not most, but many entrepreneurs, they feel like their idea is so cool and so awesome that there's nobody else doing it, but chances are somebody is doing it somewhere.
- [19:04]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. And I think also like, you know, to echo the competitor thing, like I learned long ago and I heard it from some billionaire, I think it's like you people think you want to be first, but often you don't because it takes millions to educate an industry. If you're first, where the second, the first person paid to educate them on the idea. Right. Now obviously it's sometimes good to be first if you're trying to be like a unicorn billion dollar brand like Uber or whatever. But there's normal Entrepreneurs that are trying to make a few mil to start. Right. Like it's probably good to know an industry that exists that you can do well in to make your first few million and then maybe after that you can go on and create a unicorn of some sort.
- [19:49]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's right, that's right, that's right.
- [19:52]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. So you know, last few questions we were almost up to time. I do want to shift back to the tech side. I know you obviously you've worked in massive tech teams but a lot of our entrepreneurs are hiring their first tech person on upwork or whatever. Right. Like what are some of the just sort of key attributes and skills you want from a, from a your first tech hire?
- [20:15]
Mahesh Goswamy
Well A, they start, they don't start with A. No. So I think that's the first thing you want to look for and B you don't need to hire a super senior experienced person as your first tech hire. I think if you're hiring your first engineer you want to look for kind of cultural match. Does this person like match your speed and that's what you're looking for? And do they believe in AI like speeding them up? That's number two you want to look for. And number three, do they understand the realities of the world we live in? You know engineering software development is not as sacred as a cal as it was 10, 15 years ago. So do they understand the dynamic and they're more geared towards, you know, I want to get this product out so that we can get customers to use it and make some money versus I want to do something for puristic integrity or something like that. Right. So and there are many engineers who think like that. So I would say like those three have, I would recommend like people look for.
- [21:13]
Rudy Moore
Yeah and I think it's, it's interesting also because when you first hire the tech person you probably don't want this super high level person because what you want someone that's like decently skilled so they know how to kind of tackle those basic problems. Someone that's a self starter because even the skilled people this hundreds of softwares right now. So like even my, that guy, he's like I give him a new thing, he's like yeah, I don't know that software. But within an hour of Re YouTube in it, he's figured it out. Right. So that's more important. Someone that has that fast adaptability will YouTube it, figure it out and how and you want that Like I found my best tech people are more like me where they can holistically see A big picture on how to zap stuff together and connect it. And best tech people have been the smartest, like tech geniuses, but they only look in one lane because they're the, let's say, can't be done. And I'm like, well, what if you zap, you know, I don't know tech that well, but I've been doing it 15 years. I'm like, well, what if you zap it here and do it there? And then they go, oh, well, you could do it that way. And I'm like, we'll go do it then, you know.
- [22:27]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, that's exactly right. Like, what you need is a first tech as a plumber. Right. Who can just like, jam things together, duct tape stuff together, and get the water to go from A to B. Yeah.
- [22:37]
Rudy Moore
And then as you get, you know, to tens of millions, you bring in the, you know, super clean and, you know, you rebuild it all and those things. But, yeah, I think that's awesome advice. So, last couple of questions, just, you know, more as a successful person that you are, I ask everyone on the podcast, what, what's one of your biggest successes that you're proud of? Where you're like, wow, I did good. Or I, you know, I feel I made it a bit at this point, you know, was it a hire or a breakthrough of a project?
- [23:08]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's a good one, I think. I think the release of my first book, I would consider that as. As my kind of big win. It is sort of indicated that I've sort of made it again. Like, I don't, you know, made it is very subjective. But in my mind, you know, in my mind, I feel like I'm, you know, made it with my first book.
- [23:29]
Rudy Moore
So, you know, I work McDonald's sort of, you know, at least, you know, we being as entrepreneurial people, we've never made it in our own head because we just listed higher like you. I think you have to reflect and say, well, I did better than the average kid in my class, you know.
- [23:46]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's right, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think another thing that will be interesting for your viewers is I was never academically talented. I was always like the average student in class. And I think back to my class, I was like, ah. I think I beat like 90% of them. So, you know, good about.
- [24:03]
Rudy Moore
You can tell you have more the soft skills, the personal skills, the right mindset probably let you excel through developers that were maybe more code smart. Right.
- [24:14]
Mahesh Goswamy
That's right. That's Right, Yeah.
- [24:17]
Rudy Moore
Which I love, which I think is how it should be. So, last question. Biggest failure or challenge you had to overcome?
- [24:27]
Mahesh Goswamy
I was broke once, I think right after my son was born. You know, we were living on. We were both, my wife and I were making tech salaries, but we're spending way too much living above our means or living paycheck to paycheck. And one month, we just were flat out broke. And I think that day we decided that we're never going to be like this again. So I think it was a good lesson learned. And advice to younger people that I give is don't live above your means. Save every dollar. I think you can spend it once you get to a comfortable level financially. So, yeah, that would be the biggest failure.
- [25:02]
Rudy Moore
Do you still look back to. Do you still look back to that moment now? Like, you know, you have probably some good amount of wealth at this point? Do you ever look back and go, wow, that's cool?
- [25:14]
Mahesh Goswamy
Oh, yeah, 100%. That car ride back home, you know, I would never forget it. I keep reminding myself that, yeah, you were broke once. So never forget that. And, you know, ground yourself, be humble and keep learning.
- [25:27]
Rudy Moore
Love it. Well, that's a great place to wrap. Awesome episode. You know, tech is often seen as boring, but this is one of my favorite episodes I've shot recently. So I really love bigger conversations and some really great tips for the tech side and also lessons from these big brands. So where do people grab the book or find you on LinkedIn?
- [25:47]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, the. The name of the book is how to Deliver Bad News and Get Away With It. You can find it anywhere where books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, et cetera. And you can find me on LinkedIn or on my personal site, Maheshgaraswamy.com Good.
- [26:02]
Rudy Moore
And I'm sure you got very good at that working for these big brands and big companies and going into.
- [26:09]
Mahesh Goswamy
Yeah, good, good.
- [26:11]
Rudy Moore
Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time, guys. Go check out the book. Support. Every book, I think, is awesome. And I always say books are, you know, 10, 20 years, 30 years of knowledge condensed into, you know, an hour or a few hours of reading, and you can't beat it. So check out the book, buddy. Thanks so much for jumping on a great episode. And guys, until next time, keep living the red life.