← Living The Red Life
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- [00:00]
Rudy Moore
Talk about the mindset of running 100 miles. Yeah.
- [00:03]
Zach Bitter
One of the biggest things I've learned, like, at one of the peak seasons of my career was that all my good races, there's like multiple examples in there of things that I wouldn't have known to do had I not failed at them at one point. I mean, it sounds kind of cliche, but it's like failure is a lesson, but it really is.
- [00:21]
Rudy Moore
If you could go back to your younger self, what would you tell yourself if you could give yourself a few tips?
- [00:26]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, if I could tell myself something when I was younger, would have been just maybe a little bit more forward thinking along, like the what an opportunity actually presents out outside of just the actual appearance of it and making sure you kind of have the right pieces in place so that when those do pop up, you're. You're ready to hit the ground running.
- [00:43]
Rudy Moore
My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill. Take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your life. Guys, welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. Today we're going to talk about how to turn your passion into profits. And one theme you'll probably recognize from me in this show is we have a lot of amazing, unique individuals. And something you'll also probably recognize is, you know, my athletic background and growing up in pro sport, I talk a lot about the connections between athletes, pro sport, and success in business. And today is going to be one of those shows. Zach, welcome to the show, buddy. It's good to have you here.
- [01:30]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, thanks a bunch for having me.
- [01:32]
Rudy Moore
So, guys, if you don't know Zach, he's, you know, done exactly what we're going to talk about today, turning your passion into profits in a sport that I know very well, running. But, you know, in his case, what I'll call extreme running, ultra running. You know, he's done 100 mile races and has done a good job of taking a sport that's typically not, you know, super profitable. Like, you know, if you become an NBA basketball player or a soccer player in England, you make a lot of money, but sadly, endurance sports don't. I grew up in the sport of triathlon. My mom was a gold medalist and didn't make very much money from doing that. And, and Zach, I mean, you know, this industry is. It's kind of not changed even from when my mom was racing 20 years ago. Like, you have to be able to do something with that skill, set out and figure out how to monetize it. Right. So if anyone's listening and they don't know a bit about you, do you mind just kind of summarizing that journey?
- [02:30]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I got passionate about running pretty early in, like, middle school, high school age. So I was always kind of something that was at least in the background in terms of, like, interest for me. It wasn't until I got done with college, though, that I was, like, really sort of like, sold on it as an activity I wanted to make time for. And at the time, I wasn't heading in any direction that would suggest professionalism within. I was actually a school teacher. So it was a lot of work, training, eating, sleeping, and not much else until summer vacation, essentially. And ultra running was kind of my vehicle at that point in terms of how I liked to, like, express my running interests. So as I got more interested in that, the sport also started to grow. And also as the sport started to grow, a lot of avenues towards building a business online and things like that started to pop up to, like, social media, podcasting, virtual coaching, which, you know, when I was in. When I was in middle school and high school, even, that really wasn't even a thing. It's like you coach people locally at best usually, and like, all those things were kind of like these things that were kind of like picking up momentum. So when I started kind of racing competitively, and like you mentioned, there isn't a tremendous amount of money to be made in kind of just the racing and the results that is growing in the sport. But it's not something where I personally would feel comfortable just doing and then relying on that income upon retirement, because as most sports go, athletics go, you just don't have a long career like you could for most other jobs where they're a little more cognitively based. So for me, it was like, well, what do I build? What do I kind of kind of introduce here in order to make this both sustainable during and after the career when it's done and I'm no longer running competitively? And that was kind of like a few different channels between building up my presence on podcasts as a guest, developed my old podcast, human performance outliers, and engaging on social media like Instagram acts and those type of places, substack, you know, all these different avenues we have available to us now to reach out to people and produce content in both long and short form, video, written and that sort of thing. And then kind of one of the cornerstones that I do too, that kind of has a little bit more of a personal expertise for me, given what I do, is just a coaching business. So, you know, you can reach and coach people online all around the world now. And as the sport grows and more people get into it, there's just a bigger thirst and appetite for gaining experience and knowledge within a sport that is still learning a lot as to, like, what the right and wrong way to go is in a lot of times. But it also has a big emphasis on people who've been around for a while, doing it for a while, experienced it, coached other people, have really learned kind of how to go about certain things when you're getting into distances that are oftentimes a hundred miles and further.
- [05:19]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, yeah. So a lot I want to unpack on the episode, you know, and I'm sure people listening, like, you know, they're interested in how you turned, you know, your running passion into a business, but also probably equally interested in how the heck you ran 100 miles, you know, and I believe you've got a couple of world records to do, right. Over your time doing so. So it's not just, you know, what run, walking 100 miles and getting through it, but it's actually doing a pretty great pace. Faster than most people could. We could run a mile. So let's just talk about that for a second before we go back to the business strategy side, because I know people will be excited to hear this. I talk a lot about the mindset between running an athlete, you know, athletes and business. Um, talk about the mindset of running a hundred hundred miles. Yeah, yeah.
- [06:12]
Zach Bitter
You know, the. The thing I find really interesting about running a hundred miles is one of the bigger mistakes you can make is trying to wrap your head around that entire thing. Because what ends up happening then is you'll start the race and you'll be burning just a ton of cognitive energy thinking about finishing a hundred miles when you're still working on smaller chunks there. So you really have to kind of separate that. It can be being in the back of your mind, like goals for what you want out of the day. The fact that you're running a hundred miles, that's going to be there, but you want that to be like a very low hum, not eating up a lot of your cognitive energy. You really want to be focusing on what do I need to be doing to reach the goal within this next stage of the race and really just focusing on getting that done. Because that's going to be something that isn't going to be daunting. And having a range amongst how far out you plan and how narrow you do is also something you want to think about. And the more of a you do, the better you get at kind of knowing where that range is. But there's times when you're feeling really good and you can allow your mind to maybe think a little bit further out because it's just, it's exciting. It's like it's a promising perspective at that point versus a part where maybe you hit a low patch. Now, you don't necessarily want to be thinking too far ahead. You want to be taking a really small chunk. So you're getting like a win and you're, you're kind of keeping the momentum going, even though you're going through a hard point. And all along that way, recognizing, just like in training or in business development, every day isn't equal or exactly the way you want it. There's going to be really good days, there's going to be bad days, and there's going to be average days, and those all add up to what you get at the end of it. So knowing that that's going to kind of be the path throughout allows you to kind of navigate some of those spots that are maybe a little more difficult because you're thinking, this is just where I'm at for this particular time and then I'll get out of it and potentially have like a really good stretch. And knowing that versus thinking it's a bad spot and it can only get worse is a real powerful way to kind of like structure it mentally.
- [08:12]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it is the whole famous saying, which is true, in your case, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Or in your case, an ultra marathon, not a sprint. Right. And yeah, you know, I, I had a friend back in the UK when I. My parents are triathletes, and he had a lot of the Guinness World Records in the like 2000s where he ran, you know, the whole of the UK then he ran across Australia and all these crazy things. And I always admired, like, the mindset side of that because, you know, even running, you know, 10K, it's like when you're pushing it every miles tough and your brain is constantly telling you to give up, you know, And I think being able to survive in business, like, I've grown Pretty big companies, 100 plus employees, had all sorts, you know, people steal from the irs, audits, lawsuits. I think it's the Same like, you know, it's so easy to get down and in sport too, like injury, you know, like it's so easy to get down when you get injured or in business you get, someone steals from you or this big project collapses or a, you know, a big partner just pulls the plug at randomly because they decided to. There's so much connection there. So how do you deal with that? Which is the failures, right, that you mess up your hydration on the day or your nutrition? Because that's a massive part of any ultra sport. For those listening that don't know it's 50% of that I think as well. Or you get injured. How do you work through that?
- [09:44]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, yeah, I would say that was like one of the biggest things I've learned at one of the peak seasons of my career was that you, you have these bad races or these like what would look in the short term as like a negative outcome. But really when you do those or have those, there's a lot of lessons to be learned in there in terms of like what did I do wrong and what did I do right? So it's like what can I salvage from this that likely can be reapplied without me having to make any changes? But what do I need to actually address to make sure that that outcome doesn't repeat itself? And like all my good races come to like when I actually sit down and like unpack how it went and why it went the way it did. There's like multiple examples in there of things that I wouldn't have known to do had I not failed at them at one point. So there is a mindset to looking at it through the lens of first of all, do I enjoy the preparation of the sport enough to have a race result that is subpar from what my expectations would be if I'm still able to enjoy the learning process, the development of the training, as well as pull what I need to out of that race, even though the time at the end maybe doesn't match or the position I finish in doesn't match, if I can take those lessons and those things and apply it to something in the future that produces a result that maybe I wouldn't have never dreamed of. So that's kind of how I look at it. I think it's like, I mean it sounds kind of cliche but it's like failure is a lesson, but it really is, that is exactly what it is. As long as you're, you know, as long as you're making yourself available and open minded enough and vulnerable enough to actually look at that versus kind of letting your ego get in the way and think like, all right, well I just need to be more bull headed and do better next time. It's like, no, maybe I can actually like create a path of least resistance by doing something a little bit differently and accepting that the way I went about at that time was, was not going to bear fruit for me and really keeping that open mind there.
- [11:46]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. And I was telling one of my managers yesterday because he's took on a couple of new departments and starting to, you know, some, some problems arising and a lot of it was historic from the old managers we got rid of and he took over. But I'm like, you know, like you got it and it was getting hit him down. And I'm like, you got to look at it as a good thing because these are new challenges for you and you know, taking over these departments and fixing them like, yeah, yours is, you're used to yours running smoothly, but it's like training a muscle.
- [12:19]
Zach Bitter
Muscle.
- [12:20]
Rudy Moore
You know, muscles adapt and grow from what's called progressive overload where you're actually stressing it. And it's the same for any in business. Like if you're starting to fail more and get into deep waters, you know, generally, as long as it's within logical reasoning and you're not doing something crazy, you shouldn't be, that's good because it shows you're progressing. If you're always, you know, saying we're running, if you, if everything's easy, then you're, you're probably never going to progress quite as well as you want. So I think that failure is so important as part of the process. And you know, coming back to what we were talking about earlier, like finding, you know, turning your passion into profits, you've got to enjoy the process. Right. And that's kind of what you're referring to there, like in business too. I think everyone, you know, a lot of people said that I want to make $1 million or whatever, but I truly love business. I truly love running and biking and swimming and training for triathlon. And you obviously love running. You've got to, you've got to do enjoy the process, I mean equally, because you're not always going to win. You're going to fail a lot. A lot of times it's going to be doom and gloom, but you always kind of come out of it the other side.
- [13:30]
Zach Bitter
Yeah. And one thing I kind of learned about myself too is, you know, there's a, there's a Limit of how much kind of physical exertion that I can produce on a weekly basis before the margin of diminishing returns start to kick in in terms of like, overtraining and things like that. So part of it's like, well, what do I do with my body and my mind when I'm not actually out there training and knowing my personality versus maybe what someone else's would be? Kind of maps for me is like, I kind of need outlets that are still curious and interesting to me, but are not stressful to my body the same way. So, like learning, like, well, what else do I like to do inside of the sport that isn't the actual training and racing side of it? And that's where like the coaching and the podcasting stuff usually comes in. Is it like, it fills a passion of mine that I'm legitimately excited to do, that it's work, it takes a lot of time, but it's also something that doesn't create that kind of like negative stress where it's like, I'm doing this because I feel like I have to and really kind of paying attention to where those avenues have been and then structuring them the right way. I mean, I think of my own coaching business. I've been coaching ultra runners for quite a while now, but about two years ago, I sort of like just sat down and was trying to think, well, what do I actually want to do with this from a long term standpoint in a way that I feel like I'm producing the best value for my customers as well as having as much enjoyment from the coaching side in terms of like, really feeling like I'm moving the needle for people and really resonating with them, helping them, getting that kind of mutual, like, excitement when there's a good result out of it. And I kind of restructured things to be in a way that I thought was going to be a lot easier for me and the customer to get to that spot. And that was a big breakthrough for me in that side of things too, was just kind of being able to kind of learn from, like, well, what have I done in the past that maybe didn't yield those experiences that I should like, avoid doing? And then what elements of that were things that are worth keeping around that I would get constant feedback on is I really like this aspect and that. And then. And then also being open to talking to former coaching clients, other people out there doing coaching, to figure out like, well, what is actually, like, what's actually resonating well with the customers. That are looking for that sort of a service.
- [15:42]
Rudy Moore
Yeah. And I mean, that's just, you know, the feedback from your customers as you grow. And I think also, like I often say every, you know, I don't have a set time period, but probably every three to six months in my life, I really recheck what I'm doing in my business. Like, did some meetings get added that I don't really enjoy anymore? Am I on too many meetings? Am I not on enough meetings? I need to be checking some more things. Is there a project that we launched that, you know, we just closed down, A project that made a, you know, 120 grand in six, seven weeks. So it's pretty decently loose, lucrative, not crazy for us, but not bad. But we closed it down because it still wasn't like it didn't fit with the vision or the longevity of where we wanted to go versus roi. So yeah, I mean, sometimes just can constantly. And that's training too. Right? You're always like listening to your body, looking at how you're performing and really surveying in your business is this aligning with where I want to go and going to get me the best results. And it sounds like you're, you know, constantly doing that as you are really building the business side out for your brand. I would love to also ask, like, what else are you doing coming from an athlete's background to really kind of grow the community, grow your brand and kind of foster your name online so you can start getting these clients?
- [17:09]
Zach Bitter
Yeah. I think one thing that I've learned over the years that's really helpful and as a sport grows, and one thing I've seen the last few years is just the people coming into ultra running are different than maybe they were even five, six years ago. And some of that's just, I think a lot of the drive between the pandemic opening up the door to running to people that maybe otherwise wouldn't have done it, or you get some of these non traditional people, like the David Gogins of the world, the Cam Haynes of the world, started talking about ultra marathon running to a group of people who otherwise would have never considered it. So it's like for me, thinking of it from someone who's been an endurance athlete now for over 25 years, there are things that to me I'm just like, well, that's just basic common knowledge. Like as far as my mind is concerned, you're born knowing it, but most people that are coming into the sport aren't like that. So it's like how Do I produce content that is both engaging to someone who is already kind of a few levels in and they want that next step. They've already kind of refined the basics, but also produce content for people who are getting into it or new where saying something that I would maybe consider like normal information for someone who's been around the sport for as long as I have, could maybe be a very big mover for someone else because it's a, it's a, it's a small mistake or it seems like a small mistake, but it produces big outcomes if done right or, or negative outcomes if done wrong and kind of balancing kind of content around those type of, those type of things. And I think that's where maybe like the podcast and then more short form social media stuff kind of comes in. You can, you can get some pretty quick hitting, easy, like quick actionable items on social media that gets people kind of steered in the right direction. And then if you want to kind of go a few layers deeper, then maybe it's going to be better off on like a long form podcast type of a scenario.
- [18:56]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, I learned, you know, about four years ago I stepped out my agency and really started regrowing my own personal brand. And that's kind of how I grew this new company. And I really started putting more energy and focus into organic. I'd run millions of dollars of paid ads before that. And I kind of had to switch my brain from like, because I was almost afraid of doing more beginner content because I was very kind of intellectual and advanced in my skill set. And I was like, oh, it makes you look so stupid teaching this basic thing. But then I kind of realized like, once you teach the basic stuff, that grows like the foundational layer of like if you imagine a pyramid and then all your top clients that you know, are paying big money, like we have, you know, packages at 50 hundred, 150 grand. Those clients still follow you on social media, but they kind of understand why you're doing that because you're hitting that more mass, broad appeal and then you can still do the really high level consulting on the high end. And so I think when it comes to learning how to teach, I always try and teach in layers. Like the free stuff, it's like more basic mass appeal, more viral topics, more broad. And then, you know, as like you kind of said you can get more specific when you've got the right audience in front of you and more advanced. But I mean, one of the biggest mistakes most people make is they go too advanced when they should be going broad because then it kind of switches off to 95% of the people.
- [20:33]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, yeah. It is one of those, those timeframes too, where it is like there's. You almost have to be like, mindful of the tools that you lean into. It's like, I probably get like an email every, like week or two from some app that wants to do some sort of thing or some sort of, like, interesting new way to like, kind of reach a new, a new customer, like a community and things like that. At a certain point, you kind of have to be like, you want to. I think you probably want to be open minded so you're not missing opportunities. But you also have to be like, all right, where do I actually distribute this information in a way that's going to be the most impactful and not eat up so much of your time that you end up spinning wheels for sure.
- [21:14]
Rudy Moore
All right, good. So I have a couple of last questions to wrap up. You know, I've looked Diamond into the mindset of, you know, ultra running and everything we've talked about and the connection between business and, you know, the mindset you need for what you do, which is incredible. I think it's even crazier than an Ironman, even though that's hard because at least your legs and body get to break up a little what you're doing. But I would love to ask, and I always ask this near the end of the show, if you could go back to your younger self. Right. I would love to cover both sides. The mindset of success and then the business side too. What would you tell yourself if you could give yourself a few tips?
- [21:59]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. I think, like, one thing, if I look at what I've gotten maybe a little bit better at in the last few years, that had I known when I was younger, I would have been more proactive. Is just like setting myself up for success when big opportunities do come up. Because, like, you just, you don't always know when those opportunities that could really move the needle on your business will be there. And even though they do tend to have like a long tail that you can continue to capitalize on, they, they, they are way more impactful if you're set up and ready to go so that when they do happen, you can catch that first big wave. So, you know, for someone like myself, you know, I've been on, like, some of the biggest podcasts in the world, including the Joe Rogan Experience, Lex Friedman podcast and things like that. And you know, I've certainly had a lot of success from that exposure. But they've also, some of them also came early enough my career where I wasn't as finely tuned on the business side of things and I was a little more kind of just the curious athlete still at some point. So I had, I think a fun story to talk about good exposure for my brand and things like that, but I didn't really have as much of the infrastructure to really like resonate with a person who actually wanted to engage with me as a coach or as a podcast host. So yeah, if I could tell myself something when I was younger would have been just maybe a little bit more forward thinking along like the what an opportunity actually presents out outside of just the actual appearance of it and making sure you kind of have the right pieces in place so that when those do pop up, you're, you're ready to hit the ground running.
- [23:32]
Rudy Moore
I love it. And last question is, Salon wants to learn more about you. Maybe you've inspired them to hire you and go and try and do a marathon, at least a star or ultra. Where do they find you and where can they learn more about you?
- [23:48]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, absolutely. I love all the distances. So if someone wants to just get started to a 5k first, I can help you out with that. But we can definitely get into ultras if that's your goal as well. You know, the best spot to kind of find everything I'm up to from the podcast, social media channels, coaching and all that stuff is just my website@zackbitter.com.
- [24:04]
Rudy Moore
Great, Zach, it's been a pleasure. I do have one final question that I'm just more passionate and interested myself. What is what excites you and revs you up now?
- [24:18]
Zach Bitter
Yeah, a couple things. You know, I find that like one thing I've really focused on the most of my ultra running career has been like runnable a hundred milers and I think I still have my fastest hundred mile in my legs here. So over the next couple years I really want to kind of get things set up in a way where I can take a good swing and trying to run my fastest 100 mile. But beyond that I think there's a lot of opportunities with the sport for some of these longer stuff, like some of these like multi day events or some of these interesting routes. Like at some point I want to do a transcontinental run where we run from San Francisco to New York and things like that. So dipping my toe into some of that longer kind of more Historical, traditional, ultra running type stuff is something I'd love, like to get into, like, as I get a little bit older and more experienced.
- [25:05]
Rudy Moore
What about Iron Man? Ever tempted by it?
- [25:09]
Zach Bitter
I'm always tempted until I realize how bad of a swimmer I am.
- [25:15]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, if you're not a born swimmer, you didn't grow up. That's always tough for a lot of people.
- [25:21]
Zach Bitter
Yeah. Yeah. I have a small background in biking as just like, kind of like an interest, interesting vehicle. As a kid, I would, like, ride my bike everywhere so that I think I could probably get myself set up for. But the swimming one is the one that's always deterred me from it. It's fun. It's funny. Cause my wife is like, she wants to do a triathlon. She's also an ultra marathon runner, and she's just like, oh, I'll just do it off the couch. I'm like, ah, I don't know. So something about swimming with hundreds of other people in, like, open water off the couch doesn't seem as appealing to me, but more power to her, I guess.
- [25:53]
Rudy Moore
Yeah, well, one day, I mean, when a lot of runners and single sport athletes move to triathlon, you know, eventually. So let me know. But, Zach, it's been a pleasure to have you on. Love diving into the mindset side and how you really transitioned into the business side. Congrats on, you know, all the records and everything you've achieved and. Yeah, we'll see you soon, guys. That is a wrap. Keep living the red life and I'll see you soon. Take care.