← Living The Red Life
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- [00:00]
Greg Hurling
Most people don't know they can use their retirement money to invest in things they know like and understand. There's over 100 million IRAs in the United States that have over $17 trillion in them. If you were to show me a new business that you were going to start, I could put my IRA partner with you and all the profits and distributions would go back into my IRA and I'd pay nothing in taxes. And I never knew before I heard someone talk about this, this was even an option. A bank wouldn't lend me money. My family had zero money. So for me, that's kind of where it started, was understanding where money and capital is at.
- [00:31]
Rudy Moore
My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill. Take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your life.
- [00:45]
Podcast Host
What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. Joining me today is Greg. He's a real estate master, financial master and investor and done a whole bunch of stuff. But we're going to focus on a couple of things today. He's, you know, been in the real estate game for a very long time. Over 1.4 billion. Yes, billion with a B in transactions in real estate and investing. And he's fixed and flipped over 450 homes, 2,000 apartment units. And we're going to talk today about the financial secret that your financial advisor doesn't want you to know. So, yes, I have your attention. And Greg, welcome to the show.
- [01:23]
Greg Hurling
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Good to be sure.
- [01:27]
Podcast Host
So, Greg, let's just start. You know, I say before we dive into these juicy secrets that everyone wants to know, give me a minute summary just on yourself, who you are, for those who don't know you, a minute summary.
- [01:40]
Greg Hurling
Look, I have started from nothing. My dad was in the military. I was going that path that I think most parents want you to go. And I had a pivotal point in my life where I had to make a decision if I was going to go that direction. I decided not to. I dropped out of school and, and I got into real estate at 22 years old. Not only did I get into real estate, I also started a family and I have five kids. That's a big part of my why. But real estate has been a vehicle for me and I've been able to create massive wealth that way to afford the five kids and the in The. In the memories. But. But really, I mean, I started with nothing, and my dad was in the military and got into real estate. But I think what we're going to talk about today is really what catapulted me to the next level. Learning how to avoid taxes and do things that I didn't really know was possible, nor did my parents know was possible 23 years ago.
- [02:38]
Podcast Host
Yeah, it's funny, you know, just to dive straight in on the tax thing. Like, I think every entrepreneur that becomes successful, we'll go through this journey of, like, we first learn how to make a lot of money and grow our business, and then we end up paying a lot of taxes. And then if we're pretty. We get pretty advanced. We go, oh, crap, there's got to be a better way. And we partner with, you know, big financial experts and people like yourself. And I've got, you know, lots of advisors that work with billionaires. And you start learning all these legal but more advanced tax strategies on how, you know, you can obviously write off up and do it all properly. So I'm excited to dive into some of that today. And also, you know, one thing that I know we're going to talk about that's interesting is how to actually leverage capital, too, in less typical means. Right. Versus just going to the bank. So, super excited to dive in. But let's start with the main secrets, right? So what are some of the main things most entrepreneurs don't know about about money?
- [03:39]
Greg Hurling
Well, look, I think entrepreneurs, the. One of the most difficult, important things is raising money. And so being able to get capital or partners or leverage and where to go. And the typical places people go would be a bank or a friend or a family member. Right. And that's usually where it would end. And I learned at the age of 22, like, okay, someone taught me what we're going to talk about today of a whole nother place where there's tons of money that people are just unhappy with that you can start talking to. And literally, my first real estate deal, someone lent me money from their retirement plan. Like, just a little condo in Las Vegas, a $60,000 condo. And I never knew before I heard someone talk about this. This was even an option. A bank wouldn't lend me money. My family had zero money. But someone taught me this, and I was like, wow, someone with their IRA can give me the money, and then I can pay them back profits and they pay nothing in taxes until they pull it out someday. So that was so. So for me, that's kind of where it started was understanding, you know, as far as entrepreneurs, understanding where money and capital is at. And I think that's really important.
- [04:53]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Well, and I think it's funny too, because I think when you start, like, I, at least me, right. And I think most people, you assume, when you look at these billionaires or people with a ton of real estate or whatever, you assume they somehow earned that money and just bought it, all right? And then you actually learn, like, I'm friends with some billionaires and stuff. They rarely ever use their own money. If I hit, like, the smart billionaires never use their own money. They're always using. And I actually got into real estate when I was about 20, and I use my student loan. I took a student loan out and I worked full time, had a personal training business, so that paid all my bills, and I'd save like 30 grand just from that business. And then I took the student loan out and put all of that towards my first real estate deal. And then every year I bought another one because the profits I put straight into a separate account work on the down payment. So I just, you know, that's one example. And I'm sure that's how you've got some of your 2,000 doors and units, isn't like you're not buying them all in cash, Right. You're leveraging money.
- [05:57]
Greg Hurling
Leveraging money. In particular, this, this, my, my, my place is retirement funds. I mean, yeah, that's something you and I spoke about for a second, but I don't think people really grasp that. They understand how much money is in retirement accounts. And this is one of the secrets.
- [06:13]
Podcast Host
That is a lot, right?
- [06:14]
Greg Hurling
Yeah. There's over a hundred million IRAs in the United States just obviously here that have over $17 trillion in them. So. So if you're listening to this, you're like, hey, I don't know where to find money. Most likely the person to your left or right is. Has some of their money in a retirement account that, frankly, besides this last week, right. This last week was good in the stock market. But besides that, it just goes up and down and people are frustrated and have no control of that. So what's, I think, exciting is learning about this concept and realizing that there's opportunities all around you for you to leverage, for you to borrow, for you to use to scale your business. And that's why this subject's so near and dear to my heart. And it's how, you know, I've got where I am today.
- [07:01]
Podcast Host
Yeah. And I mean, I think people like Trump are a good example, right? Like I'm not into politics and whether you love or hate him, it's like, you know, he built a lot of his wealth from loaning money and stuff and then he also saved a lot on taxes by taxes.
- [07:17]
Greg Hurling
Right.
- [07:18]
Podcast Host
You know, so it's like a lot of the smartest people are doing that. And you always see, I think it's funny in the news, right? Like you see these articles where it's like Jeff Bezos pays zero in taxes or whatever, right. And it's like, you know, obviously they are paying a lot in taxes in many other ways because there's lots of different types of taxes. But yeah, I mean you have to be smart about these things because if not, if you just kind of just pay everything at face value without doing any sort of advanced strategy, it gets kind of ridiculous. So I think the access to capital so key too because everyone, like you said, they just think about the bank, right? That's the go to place. So how do they start, you know, using this method we're talking about. Where would someone start and how would they go about this?
- [08:05]
Greg Hurling
Well, look, one of the big things and secrets, I feel like that, that, that is really not a secret. The wealth are using these things like you just mentioned. The wealthy keep getting richer and bigger because they're using these techniques that are approved. This is, you know, there's no scam, this is approved by the, the rich, the irs, you know, or the government officials and lobbyists. So look, advisors in general are good people. So I'm not here to hate on advisors. They're right for majority of America, frankly.
- [08:34]
Podcast Host
But for designed for the average guy saving 10 grand, right? No, that's right.
- [08:40]
Greg Hurling
That has the nine to five job. Who doesn't want to put a little more emphasis and energy into building or scaling their business or doing something new. Excuse me, but for those individuals that are looking to invest and use their monies in businesses, precious metals, real estate, bitcoin, cryptocurrency, all these other alternative assets that you can't use your IRA with, you can do that. And that's my message. I started a company 15 years ago to teach people how to unlock and teach them the secrets that their advisor might not share with them. Advisors aren't going to say, hey, you know what Rudy, this is great that you want to invest in this new business. Why don't you move your money, part of it from me, from the, your IRA account and invest in that new business? Why would he, why would he or she say that they won't in general because they lose the fees when I do that. Now, some, some don't care. Right. But most aren't going to advise that also because they can't, they're not fiduciaries of that. They can't tell you if it's what the risks are. But.
- [09:48]
Podcast Host
Well, most of them think everything's high risk outside of like the most basic investment strategy. That's right.
- [09:54]
Greg Hurling
Even the stock market. Right. I mean, I mean, what would have happened to Tesla if Trump lost last. Right. I mean, for that week, it probably would have gone the other direction. So, so I don't like putting my hard earned money that I put into retirement accounts, investing in particular and people I don't know or in deals I can't control. And so that's what's so powerful about this message, is most people don't know they can use their retirement money to invest in things they know like and understand. And that's what's not only exciting, but it's fun. Like, I like if you were to show me a new business that you were going to start, I could put my Iraq partner with you. Yeah. And all the profits and distributions would go back into my IRA and I'd pay nothing in taxes. And if it's in my Roth, I'll never pay taxes when I pull it out.
- [10:46]
Podcast Host
Yeah. And I think that's one of the way, you know, I obviously have a team that manage all, but from my understanding, you know, every year you can put a certain amount in tax free. Right. And then that's what you can then use to reinvest. And most entrepreneurs, because I used to do this wrong where I just take that money and invest it. Where it's like there's a middle step that I was missing. Right. I should put something there and then do it that way. Can you?
- [11:08]
Greg Hurling
Absolutely.
- [11:09]
Podcast Host
For a minute.
- [11:11]
Greg Hurling
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you nailed it. So, so there's, there's. Once you make X amount of dollars.
- [11:17]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [11:17]
Greg Hurling
You want to contribute. We talk about contributing to a self directed retirement account and self directed because now you can invest in what you want. So we, if you, if you contribute to that and then invest it in a deal or a business or in precious metals, those profits, then you'll. All those gains. You don't pay taxes on those gains unless at some point when you pull it out, you pay taxes. If it's a traditional ira, but if it's a Roth, you don't pay taxes then either. And so that's, that is one template. But, but But I'm also not here to say put all your money one because you can't into retirement plan. When there's certain real estate transactions that you're doing where you get great depreciation, those go outside of your ira, but there's other deals and opportunities that you make. Bigger hits, bigger interest or loans. You use your IRA and those profits compounding your profits. You and I could invest in the same exact things for the next 20 years. You could do it inside your LLC or in your name. I could do it in my IRA getting the exact same returns. 20 years from now I'll have hundreds, if not millions more than you just because I'm not paying taxes on my gains every year.
- [12:25]
Podcast Host
Yeah, well, and then that money that you're saving, the 30% compounds. Right. Content that say it's right. It's like you can put what, 20, 30 grand a year or something right in tax free or.
- [12:36]
Greg Hurling
Yeah, yeah. And certain, certain accounts we can help entrepreneurs that have their own business set up a Solo K, a 401K where they can actually contribute up to $70,000 a year.
- [12:47]
Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah. So I think that's like to me again not finance advice but to me that's something that, it became a bit of a no brainer to me because then yeah, you can use that to invest in some stuff. So what, what, what else are people missing? We've talked a bit, a bit about that. I, you know, the real estate names are a big thing. Like I, you know, got married and my, my wife took up real estate and you know, full time real estate investor now. Um, and I know that there's a, you know, important if you are doing it more than anything else and it becomes full time as you can get accelerated depreciation. So that's, that's important one if you're doing real estate too.
- [13:27]
Greg Hurling
Yeah, I mean that's good for that asset class I'd say. The thing that I think a lot of people forget about when we talk about self directing is you and I just talked about contributions. People that want to, you know, save and put money away. The 100 million accounts I'm talking about that have 17 trillion, almost probably 50% of your listeners have an old 401k from a previous employer. In the last six to seven years everyone's changed jobs. When I say everyone a large percentage. So therefore you have this old 401k and a lot of people are like, oh, it only has $25,000, I'm just gonna, I don't know what it's really doing. I think a big miss is people are not paying attention to the $25,000 accounts that they own. These 401ks. Those accounts from previous employers qualify to self direct to then invest in what we're talking about. And I see people wholesaling with their accounts. I see people buying and holding Airbnbs with their retirement accounts. Obviously crypto. This last week's been really good too for certain people. But I don't want to just pick on this last week because I can just look at throughout history that I've been doing this 20 something years, getting consistent returns, investing in asset classes you understand will outperform generally the market. Now, I'm not a financial advisor, I'm not going to give you advice of what to invest.
- [14:51]
Podcast Host
It basically matches inflation, right? So it's not Earth, right?
- [14:55]
Greg Hurling
Doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't move the needle. And so, so, so I just want to bring that up because I feel like when I, when I, we talk about this message, people are like, okay, this sounds cool, maybe I'll contribute to an account or start an account. If you have a current 401k or an old 401k, not current, those qualify. And if, or if you have an IRA account and so don't. That's kind of like my mom would, what she would do. I think like most Americans, they'd open up every month. Now it's an email, right? But they open up the email or the letter. My mom's still old school, right? She would open up the letter and all she would look at is if the account did what went up or down and then she would just file it. She has no idea where the money's at. That's how much America is.
- [15:36]
Podcast Host
Well, and you don't get rich that way, you know, like if you want to really invest and get rich, it's like I'll give you an example and I mean you're right on the point because I think people think that 25k is too small because again, they don't understand what I said. They think, oh, if I want to buy a 200k property, I need 200 grand. But it's not the case by buying your own house, right? Like I bought one of my, I think it was my third deal back in the UK. It was like my best deal. I put 25k a bit more 30k in mortgage, the rest on it. And that house was doubled in value in the last 10 years and it makes about 15, 20 grand a year net. Profit. So it's like, you know, in 10 years I make 200 grand profit and it's doubled in value when I sell it from a 25 grand investment. I made like a 10x on that money in cash, worth another probably 150k in value add. So it's like insane returns. Right. Isn't everything Again, close to that. And that was with you know, a small 25, 30 grand. I found a cheap house and a good deal and made it a value add so I could rent it for way more than the average. And you just got to get creative, right? I mean you'll agree it's like the creative deal structure.
- [16:51]
Greg Hurling
Well, and, and I'll add, I, I think that's a great example of what I see a lot of real estate professionals that want to be doing, let's say more deals or bigger deals, but they might only have 25,000 and they're trying to do a deal in California which we know would get you nothing. Right. So this subject is near and dear to my heart because what I gave you that stat, there's a hundred other, a hundred million other Americans that have retirement accounts. So if I'm trying to close a deal and I have $50,000 but I've been, I've had this roadblock of how to scale. But know this subject now and I call, I call Rudy, I'm like hey look, I got this deal. How about you and three or four of us put together 50 grand each from our IRAs. It's just sitting there anyways, you're not really watching it. Let's all partner in this next, this flip we're going to do or this deal we're going to buy and hold. So it should allow listeners to understand that there's a method for finding partners to do bigger deals and scale their business.
- [17:50]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I love that. And, and sometimes it's just stepping stone too where it's like if I let's stay in the uk I'd probably have like hundreds of doors now and really gone into real estate. But I left that city after three years to move to America. So I kind of fell out of it. But like I could have just like had that, done the value add, got the tenants in, showed the net yield, sold that house for 100 grand more to an investor because I did all the hard work renovating it and re restructuring it and then I could have took that 100 grand profit I made plus my 25 grand cash back out and now I could have got a half a million dollar house and then two years later done the same. So it can compound quickly too if you, it's smart, right. You just got to, you know, like, I mean your way is a better way, which I would advise too, which is also bringing in other money. But, but even if you don't want to do that, you're scared to maybe do that. On the first couple of deals, I have so many real estate friends, they started just how I explained it and now they own, you know, $2,000 like you, you know.
- [18:51]
Greg Hurling
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Podcast Host
Started with one, one beer.
- [18:54]
Greg Hurling
Yeah. And that's just, I mean you just got to start doing it. And I think that's the, I think that's with anything. Right? When we talk about any business or any venture or partner, it's working out. I mean you just got to start doing it. Same thing with the self directed IRA and start just little by little. You don't have to do all your money. You can put part, leave part of it in the market and then test out this concept and see how it goes.
- [19:16]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I miss, you know, I put tens of millions back in my business. We grew it to a hundred employees and thirty million. But I so miss doing these real estate deals in America. So once I have a couple of exits, I'm gonna do a bunch of stuff because I think it's such a, especially now I'm married and my wife realtor. There's so many advantages to it. So last, last couple of questions as we come to a close today, I would, I would like to ask one more in 60 seconds. Any other secrets that most people don't know about when it comes to investing, financial management?
- [19:53]
Greg Hurling
For me it's boring when it comes to secrets because I love boring and I want consistent. And so for me the, the message is you do not have to hit home runs if you just start making double digit returns, 10 or 12% but not paying taxes on, on your gains. That, that's the secret. We already talked about it. But I, I, I, I, I stick with like sometimes boring. Boring to me is very sexy. Is it, is this up and down crazy is not for me. And I, I did the up and down crazy for the first 10 years of my career. Right. Because I did everything and but so, so that, that's, I feel like the secret is, is you don't need to diversify. Be really good at what you do. Don't invest in bitcoin if you're not a bitcoin person, even though your neighbors are. So that's my advice.
- [20:39]
Podcast Host
Love to know Biggest win or proudest moment in business and then biggest failure.
- [20:45]
Greg Hurling
Proudest moment in business would be when I, in 2008, when I thought I 2007, I thought I was the rock star. Anything I bought was gold, right. Just like everyone else in America. And I went from being on paper worth, you know, as a young 20, in my 20s, being worth 15 to 20 million dollars, to the following year being owing 25 million dollars to banks. What I'm proud of is how I managed that and how the following year, 2009, I freaking put on my boots, went to work and I figured it out. And in that same year, I flipped over 300 homes and started from scratch and negotiate all that bad debt. And so that's my proudest moment because it was one of the hardest moments of my life when I had kids at home. It was a very difficult time. That's a proud moment. Yeah, I like that.
- [21:43]
Podcast Host
I think sometimes those comeback moments are the best. Right. I've had it a couple of times too. And I think I always say the high you fly, right? The closer to the sun, the harder the burn.
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Greg Hurling
That's good. That's good.
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Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah, sort of. That's great. And then last question, you know, if you could go back in time to your younger self, give yourself a tip, what would that be?
- [22:07]
Greg Hurling
Make decisions that make you sleep better at night, not what makes your bank account or your investment world bigger. And I just shared that with you, similar to 2008, that even though most people say back then, leverage everything, take out your equity, double down on everything. I sleep better when there's money in my account, even though I know that money isn't working for me. So do what makes you sleep good at night. That's, that's, that's advice I give my young self.
- [22:39]
Podcast Host
I've always done like a bit, a bit of that too, you know, like some high risk stuff and investing stuff, but having a, I think a bit of a cushion. It's always good because you also never know, you know, what's gonna, what's gonna happen. I love that. So Greg, where the, you know, great episode. If people want to learn more and you know, read some of your social stuff and article website, learn more about you. Where can they find you?
- [23:03]
Greg Hurling
Yeah, just if you. My social is just Greg Hurling. My website's also gregolin.com My email is Greg Greg at Horizon Trust. Contact me. I'm very active. I care about our, my audience, my clients, my staff. We get to pick and choose our clients. So I take a lot of value in that and take it seriously. So shoot me a message on social media. I'm the one that gets back to you and so. Or shoot me an email or visit me on the website. So we'll get back to everybody.
- [23:36]
Podcast Host
Love it. Love it. Great episode. Thanks so much for coming on, sharing some tips. Hopefully it got people hanging around, investment back, strategy. And of course, you know, as we we said, this isn't financial advice. It's all our own experiences and what we're doing. So always see, you know, an accountant or financial advisor before doing any of this stuff. And Greg, thanks so much for coming on today. And guys, keep working hard and living the red life. I'll see you guys soon. Take care.