Xvertuz Co-Founders: Turning Vape Bans into Business Breakthroughs

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Living The Red Life

Episode: Xvertuz Co-Founders: Turning Vape Bans into Business Breakthroughs

Host: Rudy Mawer (and Ray Gutierrez for this episode)
Guests: Debbie & Dina, Co-Founders of Xvertuz
Date: November 17, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Rudy Mawer and Ray Gutierrez sit down with Debbie and Dina, the co-founders of Xvertuz, a smoke shop business born out of adversity. The conversation centers on how they transformed the challenge of state vaporizer bans into an innovative and thriving retail experience. The discussion covers their business evolution, the impact of cultural perceptions on the smoke shop industry, regulatory hurdles, and their customer-first approach to retail. Their journey underscores the importance of adaptability, community-building, and creative problem-solving for entrepreneurs.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Founding Story and Business Evolution

• Starting Point: The business began as a vape shop in Utah but encountered immediate obstacles when the state banned vapes.
  • Quote: “Ours started as a vape shop mostly, but then Utah banned vapes. We had to, like, branch out into other things.” (A, 00:04)
• Adaptation: They pivoted by expanding their offerings, diversifying into complementary products (coffee bar, oxygen bar, traditional tobacco alternatives).
  • “We struggled through it and spread out and kind of so far, we're still going and growing.” (A, 00:27, 01:51)

2. Setting Themselves Apart: Culture & Experience

• Personal Touch: Most smoke shops are described as “barren,” lacking welcoming energy and personal connection.
  • “A lot of the smoke shops don't have any personal touch. It's very barren.” (B, 00:15)
• Xvertuz’s Approach: They designed a vibrant, space-themed atmosphere to shift perceptions and attract a broader audience.
  • “Ours isn't a normal smoke shop. It's actually very vibrant, fun place to actually just go.” (C, 00:18, 02:25)
  • Custom painted, space-themed floors; focus on inclusivity and community.
• Target Audience: Customers range from middle-aged to older adults, with a strict 21+ policy.
  • “Yeah, we have older people that come in. There's younger people, nobody under 21.” (A, 04:22)

3. Navigating Stigma and Legal Challenges

• Public Perception: Smoke shops are often stigmatized as non-essential, even ‘sketchy’ places.
  • “It's not essential. It's kind of like a luxury lifestyle.” (B, 00:35, 05:27)
• Breaking Stereotypes: Xvertuz aims to create a safe, welcoming, community-centered space.
  • “That was my goal, to make it more welcoming and less like the typical sketchy place on the corner.” (A, 06:02)
• Legal Nuance: They discussed navigating Utah’s strict regulations on products like CBD, kratom, and hemp derivatives.
  • “The only one in Utah that we are allowed to sell is hemp derived Delta 9...” (A, 10:29)

4. Inventory & Trends

• Sourcing Product: Product selection is driven by customer feedback, social media trends, and attending trade shows.
  • “I like to look at, like on social media, just see what's trending and what looks cool...and then we go to the trade shows.” (A, 06:42)
• Quality Control: Listening to customers and responding quickly to their requests ensures relevance and quality.
  • “We listen to customers. In fact, that's how we grew so, so big is because people would tell us what they want.” (C, 07:27)
• Popular Products: High puff count vapes with appealing aesthetics—avoiding the cheapest, poor-quality items.
  • “They like the ones that have like high puff counts or cool lights or mostly reliability.” (A, 07:04)

5. Customer Engagement & Marketing Hurdles

• Marketing Limits: Social media is heavily restricted for tobacco-adjacent businesses. They rely on direct engagement and creative strategies.
  • “The algorithms, because we're a smoke shop, they pretty much have to be friends with us and go look for us. Will never pop up on the feed.” (A, 07:42)
  • “I'm banned from doing ads... I try to post a few times a week.” (A, 08:09)
• Creative Engagement: Hosting in-person scavenger hunts (“hide $20 and just like video it and like come find $20”) to keep customers engaged. (A, 08:31)
• Customer Service: Building personal relationships by fulfilling special requests and remembering customer preferences.
  • “They’ll come in and ask…our employees are really good about it, just writing it down and then I just go and look for it.” (A, 09:02)

6. Industry Trends & Debates

• Product Packaging: Discussion on whether fun, colorful “childish” designs are appropriate; adult customers actually like playful designs.
  • “Adults like candy flavor and adults like pretty things.” (A, 09:50)
• Regulatory Cat-and-Mouse: The government’s piecemeal bans on substances like Delta-8 have contributed to the proliferation of new compounds and ongoing workarounds.
  • “So the government’s kind of causing that.” (A, 11:07)

7. Mindset and Entrepreneurial Advice

• Perseverance: Both co-founders emphasize resilience and adaptability in the face of recurring challenges.
  • “You’re going to be kicked down, but you just got to think outside the box and keep going.” (A, 11:42)
  • “Every time something happened, it was pushing us to where we had to go.” (C, 12:08)
• Positive Outlook: Setbacks served as key turning points leading to ultimately better outcomes.
  • “We're thankful that it happened that way. Just so stick to it. And things just start happening for you and it's being positive all the time.” (C, 12:08)

8. Brand Origin Story

• Name Meaning: ‘Xvertuz’ draws from the Latin word virtus (virtue), with an ‘X’ for “extra” and a ‘Z’ added for style.
  • “Virtus...then Debbie and I got creative with that word and put an X in front for extra and the Z just because.” (C, 13:44)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Stigma and Customer Experience:
  "That was my goal, is to make it more welcoming and less like the typical sketchy place on the corner."
  —A (06:02)

• On Customer-Driven Inventory:
  "We listen to customers. In fact, that's how we grew so, so big is because people would tell us what they want."
  —C (07:27)

• On Resilience:
  "You’re going to be kicked down, but you just got to think outside the box and keep going."
  —A (11:42)

• On Perseverance:
  "Every time something happened, it was pushing us to where we had to go. And so we're thankful that it happened that way."
  —C (12:08)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:04] — The challenge: Utah’s vape ban and business pivot
• [02:35] — Broadening offerings: Oxygen bar and coffee bar
• [03:43] — Space-themed, inclusive retail concept
• [04:39] — Product mix, focus on non-big tobacco
• [06:02] — Addressing smoke shop stigma; creating a welcoming space
• [07:27] — Customer-driven business decisions
• [07:42] — Marketing hurdles due to regulations
• [08:31] — Community-focused engagement strategies
• [09:50] — The debate around playful product labels and adult consumers
• [10:29] — Navigating Utah's tricky legal environment for hemp/Delta products
• [11:42] & [12:08] — Mindset and resilience advice for entrepreneurs
• [13:44] — The origin of the Xvertuz name

---

Connect with Xvertuz

• Website: xv.com (under development)
• Social Media: Facebook, TikTok, Instagram (@Xvertuz or @XvertuzVapes)

---

In summary:
Debbie and Dina’s story is a masterclass in entrepreneurial resilience and innovative thinking. By refusing to be defined by regulation or negative stereotypes, they've created a thriving business with a community focus and a unique, welcoming retail environment. Their advice? Stay positive, be adaptable, and always put your customers first.

Transcript

[A]

We thought we had a cool story with our business. I don't know if we knew what we was doing or if we got lucky. So it's a smoke shop. Ours started as a vape shop mostly, but then Utah banned vapes. We had to, like, branch out into other things.

[B]

A lot of the smoke shops don't have any personal touch. It's very barren.

[C]

Well, ours isn't a normal smoke shop. It's actually very vibrant, fun place to actually just go.

[A]

We've struggled through it and spread out and kind of so far, we're still going and growing.

[B]

Why do you think smoke shops are kind of like, kind of looked upon? Like, not usually like a positive. Like it's not. It's not an essential. It's more of a kind of like a luxury lifestyle.

[C]

We did go through a lot of challenges, but every time something happened, it was pushing us to where we had to go.

[B]

But how do you solve those challenges?

[A]

You just gotta think.

[B]

My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill, Take the red pill. Join me in wonderland and change your life. Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Living youg Legacy podcast. For Inside Success, I'm Raku Jiharrens. Joining us today are co founders of quite an amazing project. Joining me is Debbie and Dina. How are you folks? Good. Do you all folks podcast often?

[C]

Never.

[B]

Amazing. Do you all. Have you ever been to Miami before?

[C]

No.

[B]

Have you ever seen this much red before?

[C]

No.

[B]

Fantastic. Welcome to the Red Life. So what brings you to town? Why are you all here?

[A]

We thought we had a cool story with our business. And I don't know if we knew what we was doing or if we got lucky, but we thought it would be fun to share.

[B]

Okay, well, tell us about your business.

[A]

So it's a smoke shop, so that in itself makes it kind of hard, especially in our state, which is Utah, and the most of it's banned. But we've struggled through it and spread out and kind of so far we're still going and growing.

[B]

Okay, so running smoke shops, tell me about the culture of what it's like and what kind of smoke shop, what happens in an establishment like this, because a lot of folks are probably, probably sitting in traffic listening to this podcast or they're probably looking at a smoke shop and they've never walked into one. So what happens in these shops? Of smoke.

[C]

Well, ours isn't a normal smoke shop. It's actually very vibrant, fun place to actually just go.

[A]

So ours started as a vape shop mostly but then Utah banned vapes. We had to like branch out into other things. So it does have the typical smoke shop things but we also added like there's an oxygen bar, there's coffee, we got a coffee bar.

[B]

So talk about the journey of launching a smoke shop. Why a smoke shop? Why not a flower shop? Why not a record store? How did you all meet? Just give us the whole.

[C]

The whole. Because I used to be a smoker and I was able to quit smoking by vaping and we decided it was hard to find so we started our own shop.

[B]

Shop? Yeah, A lot of the spokeshops don't have any personal touch. It's very barren. Very, very. Not even medicinal because it's just very like hey, like some guy in the back walks out, hey, what are you doing? And kind of tries to sell you a bong or like essence. And it's just very like not intimate, just very dry. It almost feels like the shop, the person that's running the shop is going to mug you. So what's it like? I'm assuming that's not how you operate and why not and what does it look like and what does it feel like when we walk into your shop?

[A]

It's more, I like we want it to be more welcoming and kind of we have a thing going on that's like space or aliens and our shop's really big so like we have custom painted floors that's like space themed. Cool. And there's lots of non smoke shop things. So like if you don't do necessarily smoke shop stuff, there's other stuff in there that people come for.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

We're trying to get as many people we can to come in.

[B]

Right on. What's, what's your common folks that come in? What, what Eentris customers come in and visit your smoke shop.

[A]

Middle aged people.

[C]

It's all ages because we have.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we have older people that come in. There's younger people, nobody under 21.

[B]

Okay, okay. So what medicinal products are you selling at a smoke shop? Are you, are you full on selling stuff that I use that's medicated? Are you just smoking tobacco? Is it just vapes? Like what, what is being sold here? What's the culture like?

[A]

So there, there's vapes, there's like the traditional rolling tobacco. We try to stay away from everything that's big tobacco. Then there's like the herbal stuff, not so much in Utah, but like the CBD and hemp is really regulated, but there's a little bit of that in there. And kratom, which is also regulated pretty heavily, but, like, we just get what we, the state allows.

[B]

Okay, so when you see a lot of older folks come in, is it medicinal qualities or they're looking for some sort of pain relief?

[A]

Yes, pain relief.

[B]

Talk about some of the pain relief. Is it back pain, is it mental health? Like, give us the full gamut of a color spectrum here.

[A]

Just the aches and pains of getting older. That's typically what I see. They don't want to be pharmaceuticals or having to go to the doctor every month to renew a prescription for opiates, like, that kind of stuff.

[B]

Why do you think. Why do you think smoke shops are kind of like, kind of looked upon, like, not usually like a positive? I don't know. It's hard to explain. It's. You look at a smoke shop, you don't think of a cvs, so you just think of just stuff that isn't really required. Like, it's not. It's not an essential. It's more of a kind of like a luxury lifestyle. What are you all doing to kind of cultivate that lifestyle, make feel people feel like they're welcome there?

[A]

I. I noticed that, like going into other people's smoke shops that it's scary. Like what you said, you feel like you're not supposed to be there or they're going to ID you, like right as you walk in.

[B]

It's just there's always like the giant rattlesnake thing looking at you.

[A]

So, yeah, that was my goal, is to make it more welcoming and less like the typical sketchy place on the corner.

[B]

Sure. Are you all situated. It's a brick and mortar, but are you all situated like a near shopping plaza? Like, what are the restrictions for folks that are listening that want to open up a brick and mortar smoke shop?

[C]

Every state is different. We have to be basically an industrial.

[A]

I see it's out. Out of town, but we have shops in other states and they're more in the shopping area of town.

[B]

How do you carry your, your inventory? Is it. Are folks walking up to your door and kind of pitching you their products, or is it as a franchise? How do you put stuff on your shelves and how does it get there?

[A]

I like to look at, like on social media, just see what's trending and what looks cool. And I try to get those kind of things cool. And then we go to the trade shows for the smoke shop stuff. And just.

[B]

So when you say looks cool, is it like the tech? Is it the size of the vape? Is the way you smoke the vape? Is it the technology? Like, what is cool to you now? Like what's groundbreaking in the vape shops?

[A]

I don't really vape, but I like, I know what the customers like because I'm working with them all day. But they like the ones that have like high puff counts or cool lights or mostly reliability. Like not the super cheap stuff that's going to break right on.

[B]

And how do you keep it quality controlled? Like, how do you know, like, this is a good brand, is a good quality? That's a good.

[C]

We listen to customers. In fact, that's how we grew so, so big is because people would tell us what they want.

[B]

Sure. How are you communicating to customers that you exist? Do you have a social media presence? Are you, are you educating on YouTube?

[A]

So we have social media, but like the algorithms, because we're a smoke shop, they pretty much have to be friends with us and go look for us. Will never pop up on the feed.

[B]

Yeah, you're shadow banned. Yeah. You're ghosted. You're ghosted. Yeah, yeah. Trust me. I run a brand with a very eccentric first name. It's like it's going to be very difficult to advertise this brand. But how do you solve those challenges? Are you just kind of spending money on ads or.

[A]

I'm banned from doing ads, so I didn't love it.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Pretty much. I try to post a few times a week. My goal is every day, but it's mostly a few times a week. And then just tell them, customers, make sure you're following us because we're going to be doing this. Like we sometimes will like hike $20 and just like video it and like come find. $20.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Just to get people to keep checking in on.

[B]

Let's literally click. That's literally clickbaiting. It's good for you, I think. Well, it kind of takes a lot of like out of box thinking to out of box operation. Like what are some of, like, we fortunately and unfortunately kind of profile our clients here. We, we already know from a mile away, like their expectations, their fears, their qualms. What do you do with your customer service base, especially folks that are walking and they're looking for something specific. How do you maintain a relationship? How do you ascend them and keep them within your culture?

[A]

We don't have. They'll come in and they'll ask. And like, our employees are really good about it, just writing it down and then I just go and look for it. It's like, if it's something cool, I'll order a lot of it. If it's something I think is specific to that person, I'll just get maybe a few of it just so we have it. But if they're asking for it, they're the people that keep us in business, so we should, like, make the effort to find it.

[C]

And usually if one person asks you, there's actually a whole lot of people that really want the same thing.

[B]

For sure, for sure. What is something that's popular? Like, I always go to a smoke shop and I look at the designs of labels. Is. Is the goofy kind of childish designs working? I almost feel like that's almost prohibited because it's advertising to children. Like, like what is working on shelves that you see people responding to?

[A]

Although that is like a big controversial thing, like, that's attracting kids is because it's candy flavored. But adults like candy flavor and adults like pretty things.

[B]

I almost feel like less is more. More to the mystery.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like that, like if it's pretty, if it looks good, that helps. But also like the, the quant, the quality and quantity. Like, if they want higher puff counts, more like better price. So it's not all just about what it looks like.

[B]

You mentioned Utah restrictions on Delta 8. I'm sure. What's the customer base there with Delta 8, Delta O and all these other different herps.

[A]

So the only one in Utah that we are allowed to sell is hemp derived Delta 9.

[B]

I see.

[A]

And it has to be with CBD and I think right now it's a 10 to 1 ratio.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So for every 1 milligram of THC, there has to be 10 CBD.

[B]

Sure, sure. Sometimes, like, the synthetic stuff has a greater effect as opposed to removing the anxiety, removing all the negative stuff. And it just kind of lasers in focus on the positive. So there's an interesting com. There's an interesting conversation to be had there where it's like the reason why it's called Delta 8 or Delta because the government's kind of tracking down, giving it these spooky legal names where it's like, no, they're just doing their system now because it's a thing, because they.

[A]

Like ban the whole thing. So they break it apart like, well, this part's not illegal.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So the government's kind of causing that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We I, I, I got into the Delta 8 business during COVID because there was nothing else better to do. And we already, we were hit with restrictions right away in Texas. But it was, it was very even flow. Unlike every other six weeks, something passed in some court that now you're able to sell this thing. And it was very fun. It was a fun Covet project, if you will. What are we going to learn about your Legacy Makers episode? Correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cool. Right on. I'm like, I looked at your script like, oh, you're all legacy makers. So what are we going to learn about your Legacy Makers episode?

[A]

Kind of how we got started. It was rocky and terrifying and then like it'll be going good and then we just get hit with things and so kind of just like tell people, don't give up. Like you're going to be kicked down, but you just got to think outside the box and keep going.

[B]

Erdan, what will we learn about you, my love?

[C]

No, it was a fun experience though. We did go through a lot of challenges and we've had to, but every time something happened, it was pushing us to where we had to go. And so we're thankful that it happened that way. Just so stick to it. And things just start happening for you and it's being positive all the time.

[B]

Right on. Or you won't end up in a giant pair of red lips in the middle of Miami doing a podcast.

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, I'm thrilled to jump in into that studio and conduct this interview. I'm sure it's going to go really well. Anything we can. How can folks find you? What's a dot com, what's a social media. How can folks learn more about you?

[A]

Our website should just be. It's just getting started, but I hope to have it better each month. But xv dot com.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

And then our, I think we're on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram and it's all X Virtus or Expertus Vapes.

[B]

Cool. Right on. Any, any closing comments? Any, any quotes you'd like to wrap us up with?

[C]

Actually, no.

[B]

Okay. All good. I love it. Well, our co founders of Xverters, I really appreciate your time and energy. Is my mic magnetized to your watch? That's a good omen. I love the mic game. The microphone gave your Apple watch a kiss. That's a good omen.

[C]

Oh, but I was going to tell you where the name Xvertis come from.

[B]

Yes. Where does it come from?

[C]

Virtus. It's the Latin word, virtus. And then Debbie and I got creative with that word and put an X in front for extra and the Z just because.

[B]

Just because I love it. Such a 90s way of doing things. Well, now I'm gonna go play Tony Hawk Pro skater on my PlayStation 2. Devi and Dina, you guys were amazing. I really hope you enjoyed your podcast experience. And that concludes yet another amazing episode of the Living your Legacy podcast, Red Life edition. For Inside Success, I am Ray Gutierrez.