Supporting someone with MS: a physiotherapist's perspective | S8E21

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Supporting Someone with MS – A Physiotherapist’s Perspective

Podcast: Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis
Host: Overcoming MS (Jeff Alex)
Guest: Susan Chiso (Physiotherapist, Certified Coach, Mindfulness Facilitator, Pilates Instructor)
Episode: S8E21
Date: July 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores how to effectively support someone living with Multiple Sclerosis (MS) through the lens of Susan Chiso—a seasoned physiotherapist, coach, mindfulness facilitator, and Pilates instructor. Susan shares her professional journey, insights from supporting a family member with MS, and her role as a facilitator in training with Overcoming MS (OMS). The discussion delves into holistic approaches to MS management, the value of self-care as a supporter, and the transformative power of community and coaching.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Susan Chiso’s Professional Journey and Philosophy

[01:56 – 06:30]

• Susan has nearly 19 years of physiotherapy experience in Toronto and abroad, primarily with musculoskeletal issues.
• She transitioned from traditional, often passive patient care to a more active, holistic approach, incorporating Pilates and mindfulness into her work.
• Susan’s practice evolved to emphasize empowering clients to become active participants in their own health, moving away from a “fixer” mentality.
• Coaching and mindfulness are now central: “I’ve kind of stepped away from prescribing and telling people what to do and what they should do, to supporting them in making those changes they want to make in their life.” (Susan, 05:47)

2. Drawn to Overcoming MS (OMS)

[06:30 – 08:29]

• Susan was inspired by OMS’s holistic, lifestyle-based approach—blending physical activity, diet, stress reduction, and community.
• Her personal connection: Susan supports a family member with MS and found the OMS ethos aligned with both her values and her family’s lifestyle.
• “Because of how holistic this program was and then my personal connection… it just felt like a great organization.” (Susan, 07:45)

3. Insights Gained as an OMS Facilitator-in-Training

[08:29 – 11:16]

• Susan notes the “dedication and passion” of the OMS team and community.
• She’s repeatedly reminded that MS is highly individualized, requiring tailored approaches.
• She advocates for greater awareness of the growing evidence supporting a lifestyle approach among healthcare professionals:
  • “If people are going to continue to be skeptical, that’s one thing. But… just being open to those stories rather than closing off or shutting people down.” (Susan, 10:33)

4. The Value of Holistic, Empowered Health Care

[12:21 – 16:15]

• Earlier experience in reactive, high-volume clinics felt misaligned with Susan’s belief in empowering patients.
• Her integrated approach now focuses on helping clients take ownership and find sustainable practices.
• She identifies practitioner sustainability as vital to reducing burnout and fostering better care:
  • “I think that’s a big part of health, right, is finding ways to take care of yourself that are sustainable.” (Susan, 15:14)

5. Coaching as a Foundation of Support

[16:15 – 19:50]

• Coaching is not just a “tool” but Susan’s core approach—facilitating reflective conversations and self-discovery in clients.
• Example scenario: helping a client with MS uncover the personal barriers to consistent exercise, sometimes finding the root concern is social stigma rather than fatigue.
• “Coaching is essentially a conversation... solutions or ideas start to come to the surface that essentially have come from you as the client.” (Susan, 18:28)

6. Lessons from Supporting a Family Member

[19:50 – 23:09]

• Susan emphasizes the necessity of self-care for supporters:
  • “The biggest thing I would say that I’ve learned as a supporter is how important it is to take care of myself as someone who is acting as supporting someone who’s living with MS.” (Susan, 20:02)
• Mindfulness and meditation were crucial during the stressful diagnostic period and continue to help manage the emotional load.
• Maintaining personal wellbeing enables more effective, sustainable support.

7. What It Means to “Live Well” with MS

[23:09 – 27:51]

• Living well is highly personal, but key ingredients include:
  • A sense of agency or control—even small daily choices
  • Balancing acceptance of uncertainty with hopeful, future-oriented action
  • Regular practices of presence/mindfulness and self-compassion
  • Connecting to a supportive community and remembering, “you’re not alone.”
• “It's all lifelong practice really.” (Susan, 27:32)

8. Looking Forward as Part of the OMS Community

[27:51 – End]

• Susan looks forward to deeper community engagement, connection (in-person and online), hearing more inspirational stories, and contributing her expertise to OMS events.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I've kind of stepped away from prescribing and telling people what to do and what they should do, to supporting them in making those changes they want to make in their life.” (Susan Chiso, 05:47)
• “There's just so much positive drive behind the scenes that I've seen… the dedication and the passion has been really inspiring.” (Susan Chiso, 08:53)
• “The biggest thing… I've learned as a supporter is how important it is to take care of myself.” (Susan Chiso, 20:02)
• On living well: “Finding some way to have a sense of control or agency, even in your day to day… At the same time, balancing that out with some level of acceptance.” (Susan Chiso, 23:21)
• “Maybe the most important thing is just knowing that you're not alone in the challenges and the struggles of living with MS.” (Susan Chiso, 27:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:56 – Susan’s career background and holistic evolution
• 06:30 – Why OMS’s holistic approach resonated
• 08:34 – Lessons as an OMS facilitator-in-training
• 12:21 – How professional experience shaped her support philosophy
• 16:24 – The role of coaching in supporting MS clients
• 19:50 – Lessons learned as a supporter of a family member with MS
• 23:16 – Defining and practicing “living well” with MS
• 27:57 – Hopes for the future with the OMS community

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is warm, deeply personal, and practical. Susan seamlessly blends her professional expertise with lived experiences, offering actionable advice and encouragement for both people with MS and their supporters. Her emphasis on self-care, sustainable support, and fostering a sense of community is both inspiring and pragmatic, embodying the OMS philosophy of holistic, empowered wellness.

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Transcript

[Susan Chiso]

Yeah. So the biggest thing I would say that I've learned as a supporter is how important it is to take care of myself as someone who is acting as supporting someone who's living with Ms. So for me, that means especially when they're doing well or they're stable, so that then when, knock on wood, they're not, then I'm just better able to support them without having this huge negative impact on myself as well.

[Regina Beach]

Welcome to Living well with Ms. This show comes to you from Overcoming ms, the world's leading multiple sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity, which helps people live a full and healthy life. Through the Overcoming Ms. Program, we interview a range of experts and people with multiple sclerosis. Please remember, all opinions expressed are their own. Receive monthly tips and ideas about Living well with Ms. By signing up for our [e-mail] newsletter and now let's meet our guest.

[Jeff Alex]

Welcome to the latest edition of the Living well with Ms. Podcast. Joining me on this edition is Susan Chiso. Susan wears a few different and often overlapping hats. Physiotherapist, certified coach and mindfulness facilitator, and Pilates instructor. She takes a holistic approach in all aspects of her work, whether in her virtual clinic on the mat or when coaching clients for guided mindfulness practices. Susan is also a facilitator in training with the Overcoming Ms. Program and brings a personal perspective as a supporter of a family member navigating the Ms. Journey. So welcome to the podcast season.

[Susan Chiso]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jeff Alex]

So, to start off with, could you introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and the work that you do?

[Susan Chiso]

Sure, absolutely. So maybe it's just helpful to place myself. I'm based in Toronto, Canada, and like you said in the intro, I wear a few different hats professionally. So the hat that I've been wearing the longest is my physiotherapy hat. It's been coming up on 19 years later this year, and I've worked, or at least I started and worked kind of primarily in private practice settings. So here in Toronto, or a little bit overseas as well, mostly here in Toronto, helping people with musculoskeletal issues. So whether that's injury or pain or change in function in their joints or muscles, tendons, related structures, so that's kind of how things started. But over the years, things have evolved quite a bit and there's been a lot of changes in my approach. I realized quite early on that I wanted my approach to be to helping people with their health, to be quite active. The way it started. It didn't feel like it was that way. I wanted to be active, like in terms of, not only in terms of movement, but in helping people move, but also to help people become more active participants in their, in their health and how they're taking care of themselves. So that's where that second hat comes in. I became a Pilates instructor because I wanted to bring it into my physio work and to make my sessions more active, involve more movement, and just to get people to connect to their bodies in the moment and just, just step away a little bit from just receiving passive care. So same, sort of around the same time, when I added my Pilates hat, I started to see the impact of stress and mental, mental health on people's pain and their experience of their situation. But I didn't really know how to. I wanted to address it, but it was. I didn't know how to do it while staying within my scope as a, as a physio. So until I found mindfulness. So when I found mindfulness, I took a couple courses for myself and then in that process really realized how impactful and valuable it was like for me and for taking care of myself holistically. And from there I started to bring it into my works similarly to how I brought Pilates in. It initially kind of looked like leading someone through a body scan at the beginning of a session or teaching them a technique or two that they could use to manage stress during their day. And at the same time, I was still offering some of the more traditional ways of physiotherapy care, like hands on work, you know, prescribing exercises. So it was a bit of a balancing act there for a little while, but I started to move into more virtual care then when I became a coach, like, those two pieces really brought things together and brought me to the approach that I'm at now where I've kind of stepped away from prescribing and telling people what to do and what they should do, to supporting them in making those. The changes they want to make in their life and helping them figure out the steps they want to take to get there. So I really brought that. That active approach that I was aiming for. After my first few years as a physio, I really brought that into, into the approach that I use now. So as a physio now, I wear that coaching hat and I help people make changes with regards to exercise or physical activity, like bringing that more into their lives, also around managing stress and just taking care of themselves better mindfulness comes into that process to this day as well. And then Pilates is more outside of the clinical setting now. I still use it within physio a little bit, but more so I teach classes both online and in person in my community and I definitely wear my physio hat when I do that and that mindfulness hat as well. And on the mindfulness side I facilitate group sessions so helping people to like deepen their knowledge and their connection to mindfulness so they can incorporate it into their lives. And then I do some one on one coaching within mindfulness as well. If someone wants to bring a mindful approach, it's just something that's going on in their, in their life. So, so yeah, it looks a lot different now, but that's, that's the journey that's been going on in the last little while.

[Jeff Alex]

So what, what drew you to the Overcoming Ms. Program and, and then ultimately what led you to become a facilitator in training?

[Susan Chiso]

Yeah, what really drew me was the, the holistic nature of it. So like when I found the website and just started to kind of browse and see what the components of the program were, it was, was the holistic aspect. It was that it was considering the, the physical activity and exercise part of things of helping people to live well. And that was Ms. As well as the, of course the diet piece and then the stress management piece and all those different pieces just were, were quite familiar to me in the sense that it's, it's how I try to live my life even as someone who's not living with Ms. Like I try to bring those pieces into my, my everyday. And as, as I was just saying, it's, it's kind of how I support people as well through my, through my work, through that physical activity piece and the stress piece and getting out into nature. It was also familiar in the sense that the family member that I'm supporting is I would say also living a very similar, similar life and trying to incorporate all those pieces even prior to, to living with Ms. And I had been looking for a group to, or organization to connect with, to offer my, you know, my knowledge and my skills and I hadn't sort of found one to, for, for a while that I, while I've been looking but because of, you know, how holistic this program was and then my personal, then became my personal connection to Ms. As well. So just, it just made sense to when the facilitator, when they were looking for facilitators to apply because it just felt like the right moment at the being in the right place at the right time kind of thing in the, in terms of the timing. So it just felt like a great organization too, and I'm glad that I've been welcomed in.

[Jeff Alex]

And what have you taken away from your experience as a facilitator in training so far?

[Susan Chiso]

Oh, lots of things I would say it's been since about, what, August or September when I came on board. One of the first things I would say is just the dedication and the passion, the hard work of the OMS staff and the other facilitators in trying to bring awareness to the role of a lifestyle or a lifestyle approach to helping people live well with Ms. There's just so much positive drive behind the scenes that I've seen, whether it's through, you know, watching previous webinars or attending online events or just being in meetings and working with my mentor, Heather, who's also a facilitator. Yeah, just seeing the dedication and the passion behind the scenes has been really inspiring. Like, I work primarily alone, so it's just been really nice to be part of that sort of atmosphere. Um, another thing that I'm taking away so far is the just, it keeps being reinforced how individualized everyone's experience is with living with Ms. It obviously impacts everyone quite differently based on, you know, what the disease is. So that, you know, I hear that in people's stories all the time and it just reminds me how important it is for, for treatments that people are receiving, whether it's from healthcare or even the care that they're giving themselves, whether it's through the lifestyle approach or otherwise, like how individualized and tailored that needs to be as well, how much that change can change for someone within their, their lifetime as well. Another thing is just the need for more healthcare professionals to be aware of the growing evidence behind the lifestyle approach to living well with Ms. And if, you know, if people are going to continue to be skeptical, that's, that's one thing. But just to be open to, if you are, if someone is a healthcare professional working with people with ms, the need to just be open to at least hearing people's stories about. I'm trying this approach and this, I really feel like it, it's helping me and just being open to those stories rather than just kind of closing off or shutting people down. So I know there's a lot of, I guess that's another thing I've taken away so far. There's a lot of behind the scenes work trying to raise awareness among healthcare professionals that this approach is out there that there's evidence behind it and people are employing it and seeing positive.

[Jeff Alex]

I found in the healthcare systems there seems to be, they need a burden of proof that to say, to advise things, it needs to be absolutely proven that these things will happen. Which interesting. They said arguably whether smoking was proven to cause cancer was questionable before they started to say you shouldn't smoke. But it was so obvious. But I was actually told by my neurologist when I said this is the approach I'm following. And he said, well, yeah, it's not official advice, however, just think about the best and worst case scenario. And the worst case scenario is you might miss eating some foods that you'd normally eat and most, most of which are actually not considered that healthy anyway. But even if the Ms. Side of it doesn't do anything, you're reducing your risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes. And he wrote a long list of things. He said, even without the Ms. Side of things, this is just a healthy lifestyle. So doing mindfulness, exercise, eating well, it's not gonna be a bad thing.

[Susan Chiso]

Absolutely, yeah. Is that.

[Jeff Alex]

And so how have your experiences as a physiotherapist, a pilates instructor and mindfulness facilitator shaped how you think about health and well being?

[Susan Chiso]

Yeah, I think, I think those early years being a physio and working in, you know, the fast moving clinics, high volume clinics, I don't know if that's necessarily shaped how I think about health and well being, but it definitely shaped my, my approach to how I want to, you know, support people with their health. I came into physio thinking that it was like a very active and empowering approach and not that it's not. This was my experience working in the settings that I, that I did work in. But the way I saw it was I'm not prescribing medicine and I'm not doing surgery. And of course there's a place for those things. Absolutely. But instead I'm meeting someone where they are in terms of, you know, where their body is at or how their body is functioning and I'm helping them use their body based where on where it is to get to where they want to get to. So to me it just felt very active and very empowering. But as I started working and, and again, maybe it was a setting, maybe I just didn't know differently, but I also didn't see it being done differently. It just ended up feeling quite passive and reactive. Also focused on the short term and I think I kind of just felt stuck in that, you know, I'm the fixer of your problems, sort mentality and role which is really not sustainable. And it, and overall didn't feel aligned with how I saw health, which was we need to take that whole person approach. I, from the get go kind of thought we, we need to get people to be more active participants. It's not just about receiving that passive care again, there's a, there's a time and place for sure. So that's why I made all those changes that I described earlier on in becoming a Pilates instructor and then finding mindfulness and bringing that in and then finally coaching and the approach that I take now where helping people just take ownership of their health. So I'm grateful for those early experiences as challenging, you know, as they were. And sometimes I wonder why I stayed in those roles as long as I did. But trying to practice what I preach and be kind to myself, it's, it's, you know, how it was. But yeah, it's what got me to, you know, where I am now, where I feel things feel a lot more sustainable in how I'm working. And I think that's a big part of health, right, is finding ways to take care of yourself that are sustainable. It's sustainable for me as a role that I have, but it also helps people take sustainable actions. And I think with the way that public healthcare systems around the world or the state that they're in, whether overburdened, overwhelmed, I think an approach where we're helping people take ownership and it feels sustainable to us as practitioners and therefore maybe reduces burnout. I mean, I think there could only be good things to come out of that. So yeah, I think it was, wasn't so much how, you know, how I think about health, that change, but more my approach and coming into kind of alignment with that, with those two things.

[Regina Beach]

It's not too late to start lifestyle changes to improve your mental and physical health. This year the new version of our free 6 months to Overcoming Ms. Course has launched in the LiveWell Hub. You can join today adopt the full Overcoming Ms. Program or opt for individual pillars diet and vitamin D, physical activity or stress management at your own pace. Visit hub.overcomingms.org to find out more.

[Jeff Alex]

So you've mentioned a bit about the coaching side of things, so could you explain a bit more about how coaching fits into the way you support people in general?

[Susan Chiso]

Yeah, absolutely. It's actually quite a big part of how I support people nowadays. Maybe the best way to explain it is as physios when we Go take a course, let's say a course in acupuncture. We, we might say something like, okay, now I have this additional tool in my toolbox. I have this acupuncture tool that, you know, when someone is in front of me, I've got all these other tools in my box, and I might pick and choose the tools that work best, that I think might work best for the individual in front of me. So sometimes some physios will use coaching as one of those tools where they can just kind of pick up that tool. And in this moment, it's, it might be helpful for myself, I'm, I don't see it as a tool, but something that I use, like full throttle, as my coaching mentor says. So it's, it's my approach to how I help people rather than a tool that I kind of reached for. So let's say we're in a physio session, you and I. So I, like I said, I work virtually, so it would be similar kind of setup as we have now. So you're a client and I'm the physio. And let's say you're living with a mess and you want to make exercise a regular part of your day, but you're having a hard time staying consistent with that. Let's say you understand, you know, why exercise is important to bring in, and you totally get that piece, and you even maybe know what kind of exercise you want to bring in. But when you've tried in the past, you're just not able to stay, stay consistent, and you think maybe fatigue is a big part of that. So let's say that's the scenario. So if we were in a physio session, we would essentially have a conversation about it. So coaching is essentially a conversation. So it would start off by just getting really curious with, you know, what's going on, what your situation is, what your thoughts about it are, and kind of where you see yourself getting to or where you want to get to. So lots of questions and an opportunity for you to just think and pause and reflect. We might, through the conversation, realize that maybe it's not fatigue. That's the, the, the limiting factor. Maybe it's. And this is, yeah, maybe it's more someone worried about being seen as having a disability if they're exercising outdoors or whatever the case may be. So something else might kind of rise to the surface as we kind of dive under the iceberg, so to speak. Got all these analogies coming, coming out, and you or the client might see things Start to see things from a different perspective, just from through the questioning and through hearing yourself speak and taking moments to kind of pause and reflect. And with time, like solutions or ideas start to come to the surface that essentially have come you as the client that you want to take forward to. To bring into your life, to try to get to, you know, bringing exercise into your life consistently. So then you might commit to one or two of those. We would go away and then come back, you know, a couple weeks later or whatever the timing is, and then check back to see how things went and move forward from. From there.

[Jeff Alex]

You mentioned your. You've got a family member with ms, so what have you learned from being a supporter of a family member navigating Ms. And how has that shaped your perspective?

[Susan Chiso]

Yeah, so the biggest thing I would say that I've learned as a supporter is how important it is to take care of myself as someone who is acting as supporting someone who's living with Ms. So for me that means especially when they're doing well or they're stable, so that then when, knock on wood, they're not, then I'm just better able to support them without having this huge negative impact on myself as well. So when my family member was first experiencing symptoms and lots of things were still on the table, maybe it was looking like a mess, but nobody was really saying, making the diagnosis and you know, the whole diagnosis journey, it was a very stressful time, as I'm sure lots of listeners can relate to. So, you know, of course it came out of out of the blue as. As you say. So it was. But I was so grateful that I had been taking good care of myself leading up to that point. Of course, I had no idea it was coming, but. And by taking care of myself in this case, I'm referring to practicing mindfulness and meditation as well. So that's just the piece that really stood out to me through this experience that I'm so grateful that I had ways to ground myself in the moment when. When my mind started spiraling about the possibilities of what's going on here and which. And being in the present and being calm from within just allowed me to support my family member then from a better place. Right. So. And also just being able to still do mindfulness practices while this was going on was a nice surprise. I know in the past when stress was. Had built up, I would probably let go of my practice, but in this scenario, I still found myself being able to practice, maybe not as much as normal, but. And I think that just. And it kept that ability to be present kind of top, like easy to access. And I think the other piece is, you know, these stressful events can, can have a long lasting impact after the stress, the stressor is gone, so to speak. So, but I think being, having that practice and being able to continue it throughout the process just made it so that that impact of the whole event wasn't as bad on, you know, on myself and my health, in different aspects of my health. So I just know that I need to continue to keep practicing because obviously Ms. Is a lifelong journey and, and there's other things that can come up as well, not just that. So if I want to be a, you know, a good supporter and I need to keep practicing. And I think even in this role as a facilitator and hearing people's struggles, of course we're not just hearing struggles, we're hearing the good parts as well. But just absorbing that as a, as a facilitator can have its impact as well. So just continuing to, to take care of myself and check in with myself and I think will help, you know, both of these roles.

[Jeff Alex]

So in a, in a broader context, what does living well mean to you, especially in the context of a long term condition like ms?

[Susan Chiso]

Yeah, so the first thing that comes to mind is that it's a condition that impacts everyone quite differently. So you know, how someone chooses to go about trying to live well with Ms. Is going to be very different. But there's definitely a few things that, that stand out. So one of which is finding some way to have a sense of control or agency, I would say, even in your day to day. So whether that's through, you know, you're taking a lifestyle approach and you're finding time to exercise every day or doing a mindfulness practice or a combination of things, or taking, you know, your medicine, whatever it is, just finding some kind of daily consistent action as best as possible to have that sense of agency and control that what you're doing is helping you now and it's gonna help you in the future. At the same time, I know there's a lot of uncertainty with living with a disease and people don't know, you know, how it's going to impact them down the road. So kind of balancing that out with some level of acceptance so that that's kind of how the disease is and, but at the same time having that sense of control can kind of, I think relatedly finding a sense or practicing hope as well. So, you know, I said this already, but that what I'M doing today and is helping me today, but it's also helping me down the road. So whether that's connecting to stories of hope, like being part of the OMS community, there's lots of stories of hope that one can access just to see the actions people are taking and the positive impact it is having on their lives over years. So I think finding that hope is important another thing too. It's all about practicing, I think. Right. So practicing being present can definitely help to live well with Ms. I just think about, you know, there's probably lots of thinking back to, you know, how things were in the past and thinking back to I was functioning this way in the past and now kind of look at where I am now or there might be a lot of worrying about the future. Right. I spoke about that uncertainty piece. So as much as possible, practicing noticing when that's happening and having ways to bring yourself back to the present moment to ease the anxiety and tension. And that tends to happen when we yo yo back and forth between the past and the future. Relatedly, and I've heard this a few times from the community, so practicing self compassion I think is another important one. So being kind to yourself. I've just heard a number of people recently say I'm just realizing there or I'm being too hard on myself, I need to be kinder to myself. And I think that's completely normal experience. Living with a chronic condition, absolutely. But understanding kind of what self compassion is and what being kind to yourself means to you and then having ways to put that into action. So whether it's saying kind words to yourself or having like a particular physical gesture or taking some kind of self care action, whatever it is, it's going to look different for everyone. Kind of knowing having that in your toolbox as I spoke about earlier, so that you can access it easily and bring yourself back to being kind to yourself. And like I said, all of this, I think it's not a one time thing. The being present, the feeling hopeful, to having a sense of control and agency and being kind to yourself. It's all lifelong practice really. And the last thing I'll say is having a connection to a group that's like minded and is experiencing similar things to you. So whether that's overcoming a mass group or somewhere else, connecting to a group that is going through similar challenges that you can ask questions, bounce ideas off of, receive support and also give support, I think both of those are are important and maybe the most important thing is just knowing that you're not alone in the, in the challenges and the struggles of living with Ms. Or if we're talking about a different condition, I think that's, that's a key piece. So.

[Jeff Alex]

And as a final question, what are you most looking forward to as part of the Overcoming Ms. Community?

[Susan Chiso]

Moving forward, I'm looking forward to just continuing to, you know, get to know the community and connecting with them. So it's probably going to be mostly online for, for now, but hopefully one day connecting with people in person as well, continuing to hear people's stories of, you know, how they're trying to live well with the mess and the impact that it's having. I'm sure I've already been quite inspired by what I've heard so far. I'm sure I'm going to continue to, to be inspired and also to bring my passion and experience to help support the community as well through different events. So, yeah, I'm just looking forward to continuing to be part of the community.

[Jeff Alex]

Excellent. So with that, I'd like to thank you very much for joining us.

[Susan Chiso]

Susan Chiso thank you so much.

[Regina Beach]

Jeff thank you for listening to this episode of Living well with Ms. Please check out this episode's show [e-mail] podcast. You'll find useful links and bumps information there. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And please rate and review the show to help others find us. This show is made possible by the Overcoming Ms. Community. Our theme music is by Claire and Mav Dean. Our host is Jeff Alex. Our videos are edited by Lorna Greenwood and I'm the producer, Regina Beach. Have questions or ideas to share, email [e-mail] we'd love to hear from you. The Living well with Ms. Podcast is for private, non commercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional.