â đď¸ Local Real Estate Developers
đď¸ Local Real Estate Developers
From Rule-Follower to $450M Sports Ecosystem Developer | EP#57
00:56:26
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- [00:00]
A
This is the Local Real Estate Developer Podcast, where we share the stories of locals across the country who took that empty lot or that old building and turned it into something awesome that their community needs. I'm Christy Candle, and I've been a real estate developer my entire career. My co host, Rafael, is a commercial broker. And together we're sharing the stories of locals making a huge impact on their communities. And what we've learned is you don't need millions in the bank or decades of experience to get started. You just need the confidence, tools, and the right people around you. This podcast is your chance to gain the confidence to get in the game. Because real estate development isn't just for the insiders anymore. It's for people like you too.
- [00:41]
B
Welcome to the Local Real Estate Developer Podcast. I'm your co host, Rafael Collasso. I am a commercial broker, investor, and developer located here in Louisville, Kentucky, and I'm here with my co host, Christy Candle. Great to see you as always.
- [00:53]
A
Hey, great to see you. Yeah. I'm a real estate developer investor, and I teach locals how to become developers in their community. And today we have a special guest that I found from a different Master Mind group that I joined. And when she started sharing her background, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, there's a lot of synergy in the types of projects we're doing today. And the fact of where she's located now is a state that I grew up in. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome Beth Underhill to the show.
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C
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here and can't wait to just dive into more about my story and. And our synergies and. And all the good stuff.
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B
No, so. And. And you're located in Cincinnati, Ohio. We just found out off the off air, so that's exciting.
- [01:34]
C
That's correct. I am Ohio born and raised. I originally grew up near the Cleveland area, went to school at Bowling Green State University, which is Toledo, and then decided to go further south because I wanted a, you know, some warmer temperatures. I just didn't go south enough. So, yeah, I met. Yeah. Met my husband, and I'm like, oh, he's a lifer of Cincinnati. I think I'm staying here.
- [01:57]
B
Cincinnati is a great market. You know, it's a large metropolitan area. It seems like there's a lot of activity there from a variety of different capacities. I'm just an hour south of you here in Louisville, and, you know, we make up to Cincinnati at least a few times. A year.
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C
Yeah, I would totally agree. You know, the market itself is strong. We have a lot of Fortune 500 companies here, which does attract, you know, a number of people. But we also have, you know, the sports, the arts, you know, the entertainment and so forth. And really, I think it's been named, like, one of the most desirable cities to live in, you know, here and there over the last three, four years, something like that. So I fell in love with it. It took me a while. I used to always root for the Cleveland Browns, the Cleveland Indians and so forth. And, you know, my daughter, who's grown up a huge Bengals fan, finally said to me one day, she's like, mom, you have lived in Cincinnati longer than you ever lived in Cleveland. Like, don't you think it's time you convert? And I was like. And then once Joe Burrow came to the Bengals, okay, I will. I will convert for that reason. But I still root for the Guardians when it comes to baseball.
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A
So, I mean, the Cavs are making a tiny bit of a run right now. They just collapsed in game one.
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C
But they embarrassed us. I mean, oh, my goodness, that was awful. I went to bed, like, heading into the fourth quarter, thinking, you know, we've got this. And then I wake up to some overtime nightmare. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. So.
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A
So.
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C
Oh, well.
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A
So I grew up in central Ohio, and we could have picked the Cleveland Clowns or the Cincinnati Bungles, and instead, we picked the Clowns, who have, like, zero win seasons. One win seasons. I'm like, at least The Bengals can be 500. Yes. I'm a big fan of Borough, too. Yeah, that. That whole market right there. I mean, you're on the water. You have the major sports teams, and isn't there some stat, like right there, that how many states you can drive to within a certain amount of time? And, like, it's just so centrally located
- [03:49]
C
over there, so easy. And. And when I think of just access to an airport that can get you in and out and really centrally located that I can get to New York, Florida, or even in California within a reasonable time frame, I'm like, I don't know. I would be very. I'm so spoiled. I don't know how I can move. But we'll see. You know, life always takes you different places, so we'll see what happens.
- [04:14]
B
Well, the airport is in Kentucky, so
- [04:16]
C
I just thought it. I know, I know. It's the crazy running joke.
- [04:19]
B
It's always a running joke between people from Cincinnati. Well, technically, the Airport's in Kentucky. It's much closer to Cincinnati than it is Louisville. But, but obviously, you know, we're, we're thrilled to have you on the podcast. You know, obviously Christy has connected with you offline through a group that you guys are a part. I'd love to get a take on your background and what ultimately got you interested in real estate development.
- [04:44]
C
Sure, sure. So my background started, I actually was in the hospitality world, you know, growing up, working, you know, Sister's Chicken, Burger King, places like that, and then heading off to school. I was a bartender and worked at a hotel and eventually made my way to become the director of catering for a small boutique hotel in Finley, Ohio, which, Christy, I'm sure you're familiar with. Finley?
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A
Oh, yeah.
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C
When I moved down here to Cincinnati, I kind of kept that going and worked for a large flag hotel and quickly realized that working in a boutique hotel, I had so much autonomy. I could do whatever I wanted to do. And then once I went corporate, I'm like, I can't do this. I just, I am not a rule follower. No way, no how. So I started looking at, like, how can I kind of break my way into things in which I have more control over? And after meeting my husband, he had, had said, you know, I really like to get back into landscaping, construction, something along those lines. And I'm like, all right, you know, I'll help you build your business. So we started off building what is now a 27 year old business and it originally started off as landscape installation. We were doing smaller things like paver patios and whatnot and, and then pivoted to more of a construction company where we build outdoor living spaces and we basically take essentially whatever's on the inside of your home, kitchen, living room and so forth, and we basically put it on the outside, put a roof structure over top of it, and essentially you have more living space. Throughout that period of time, however, I kind of caught the bug of entrepreneurship and small business ownership and I started a catering business. I also had an Internet based, Internet based business for women's golf, apparel and accessories, a fitness studio. But throughout all that, of course, I was always helping.
- [06:38]
A
And she said she kind of caught the entrepreneur bug.
- [06:42]
C
I had a lot of fun with each of them. But I, you know, throughout that, my, our construction company, you know, one of our very first projects was the installation of the landscape for a large outdoor mall here in the Cincinnati Market. And as, as we were kind of doing that, you know, we were got to see the whole development and so For. And, you know, I always thought in the back of my head, like, wow, wouldn't it be really cool to do something like that? You know, one of these days. One of these days. And. And so as our. Our journey progressed, we continually were introduced to people that were developing and so forth. And through my fitness journey, I actually met a gentleman who is very, very well known here in the Cincinnati market, and he builds a lot of multifamily. So my husband and I sat down with him one day, you know, just picking his brain, trying to understand, you know, and we're talking about multifamily, as in, you know, the 100 units and so forth. And he runs a very solid business. And then through just our journey with our outdoor living space company, we have done quite a bit of work for developers. And so one in particular who developed this massive area took a. Took just. I mean, essentially a spot that was so run down and just like, helped to revitalize an area called Oakley, which is near Hyde park in Cincinnati, if you're familiar with those at all. And so sat down with him, and we're like, how'd you get into this? What did you do? Like. Like, tell us more about this. And so, simultaneously, as all this was happening, we were starting our real estate journey with fixing and flipping single family homes. We were watching enough of Chip and Joanna being very successful, and we thought, you know, what if they can do it? Like, we'll be Chip and Joanna of Cincinnati. Like, why not? But what we quickly realized is that there's a lot of contractors out there that don't work like we do. And so we're like the type that we start a job, we stay on the job until we finish the job. And we were just having so many contractor issues with, you know, ones that would come in and promise us, you know, the sun, the moon, and the stars and then take some money and not show up. And we're just like, oh, goodness gracious. And we had private money partners, so they were all involved and whatnot. And I mean, luckily, like, we got through. We got through it all. We renovated some amazing properties. We actually added on additions and popped roofs off of some ranches and second stories and so forth. But that's when I pivoted. We just decided, we're like, you know what? We've had enough of this. Let's pivot into commercial real estate. And once we made the pivot, I ended up meeting up with five guys. And I always say it was me and five guys that we started in our commercial Journey and we began acquiring purpose built student housing. And within that there were a few of us that, that realized like, hey, we really, we really mesh, we work well together. And one in particular, he always had this vision of development. And I was like, oh my gosh, like someone after my own heart, like we've been kind of stumbling, you know, across, you know, all of these people that are, you know, I just felt like development like, like throughout all the layers, like just, just was always there. Right. It was, it was, it was something that kept speaking to me, didn't know how I was going to do it. Figured at some point in my life it will, it will reveal its. And then sure enough, it did. And so within the last year and a half, we actually are working on two development projects. And yeah, and that's, that's just how I'm at where I'm at. And more in the pipeline, more potentials in the pipeline, I should say, but really trying to again navigate those and figure out like how they fit into everything else that's going on.
- [10:31]
A
Yeah, I think one of the key things that you mentioned was that you had started companies that ended up getting hired by developers and because people were like, how do we get in? And that's why I love hearing everyone's story. Because you got exposure to them to go, oh, that's how you work. Like, I had a somewhat similar, from a signage background. So we were putting up the signs for CVS Pharmacy, for Chase bank, for all the national tenants. And we were working with the developers of the shopping centers, of the properties. And it was like, oh, this is how our communities are formed. Like, this is what you guys are doing. And I'm this small, little tiny piece. Okay, how do, how do I do what you do? Because you're the top of the food chain and that looks way more cool.
- [11:09]
C
Exactly. You know, my fitness studio, first time I was really exposed to leasing a building. And so I'm like, huh, okay, I see who has all the cards, who makes all the money here and so forth. And fitness is a very challenging industry to make money because people are so fickle and they drop off and so forth. But so you're always trying to acquire new members and whatnot. But you still had to pay the rent, right. And there were cam fees and et cetera, et cetera. And so I was like, huh, okay, I want to be in their shoes someday. And that's really too. As part of, you know, one of our developments, there's going to be retail, you know, parcels and, and Whatnot. And, and so I'm thinking in the back of my head like, okay, now I get to be that person. So, so yeah, it's, it's. You know, someone once said when you kind of look back at your journey and you start connecting the dots, you see how you got to where you are today, but you don't realize the dots until, you know, you're looking back and saying, oh, okay, now I get it.
- [12:08]
B
Yeah. And also to your point, it's that you started questioning the fact that as I'm in this space and I'm having to pay all this rent and all this cam related to just maintaining the existing facility, you start doing the math in your head. You're like, wait a second, this is a multi tenant center and we've got seven spaces and some they're paying similar rent to me. Then you start reverse engineering and saying, wow, this could be a pretty interesting proposition. And obviously that's the kernel of the idea. And then as you start getting into development, you start realizing some of the challenges that you're ultimately maybe weren't aware of at the beginning, but as you continue to progress through this process, you ultimately are able to get to the other side. And maybe you've learned your lessons on this project and now the next one becomes a little bit more refined. And granted you're going to face similar type of challenges or maybe different challenges on that project, but over time you start building this knowledge base of things to consider as you're going along. And ultimately, before you know it, you've gotten a couple projects under your belt and you're a full fledged developer. So it just takes that first idea that turns into action and then you pivot.
- [13:23]
C
Yeah, totally agree. And you know, one thing I will say is like, for this first project, we've been. Well, for both of them, I should say. We've been very blessed to have architect firms and contractors who are helping to educate us. Right. So they're guiding us. And that's just like, it's priceless. Right. I do find that within this industry there are a lot of people that want to help. Right. And want to see you succeed. I mean, obviously the architect has a vested interest in seeing the success because they get to put their name on it. Right. And put it in their portfolio and so forth. And the same thing with the contractor, like this is, you know, a big deal for a very local contractor to be able to, you know, take on this development. And so, you know, they're there to help. And so I love that because we're learning as we go, and they're able to provide, you know, what they've experienced previously, what they're seeing out in the market, and just help us as we move through them, as we move through this as newbies.
- [14:26]
A
And we talk about this a lot. Like, the strategic partners that you need as a developer are your architects, your engineers, your contractors, your lenders, your attorneys. And these are all people that, one, yes, they have a fee for service, but two, that's their expertise. As a developer, you don't have to know everything. You just have to know how to put a team together, be a problem solver and go, cool, I'm going to drive this ship. And I know that my whole role is when it blows up or obstacles come, that I get to work with a team and find a way forward. It's to where those. Those partners are meant to be there with you, and they won't always be the right ones. And you might go through a couple, but you know, when you've got the. The good ones on board, to where you're like, okay, you're a team player, and all of your prior business history, like, all of that parlays into the experience now to where it's not like it wasn't relevant. It was very relevant into what you're doing today.
- [15:14]
C
Absolutely, Absolutely.
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B
So go ahead. Go ahead, Kristi.
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A
No, go for it.
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B
No. So talk a little bit about that first project that you have taken on and maybe what drew you to that opportunity.
- [15:28]
C
Sure. So this one has been a little while in the making, actually. And actually, like, it goes so far back, it's kind of crazy. So when I. When I had my catering business and this was in the early 2000s, you know, I told my husband, I'm like, look, I can only do this business. We were doing it out of my. I was doing it out of my house, which was crazy in and of itself, but. And that's ultimately what led to, like, us making a decision like, okay, we either put it someplace or we need to close it down. One of the two. It was. It was getting out of control in a good way. But I also just had my daughter. And so I was like, I don't know how I can continue to go down this path and try and raise our daughter. So we hired someone to come in and that would, you know, watch. Watch Gia, my daughter, for X number of hours per week. So fast forward, that same individual ended up marrying this gentleman. And this gentleman brought this particular project to me somewhere around 2022. So he came to me with this idea. He said, hey, I've got a couple partners and we're looking to build a field sports facility. And you know, do you know of anybody that could help us? And I said, well, let me, let me take a look at what you got, you know, so sign an NDA and so forth. He sends over all the information that they have. And I'm like, okay, you know, this has merit. I might be able to start making some introductions and which I did. So started making a few introductions to some individuals. One in particular happened to me, my very first landlord for the fitness studio. I'm still friends with him today. He owns a ton of real estate and so forth. And I'm like, Wayne, you know, can you sit down with, with BJ and Pete and maybe just give some guidance, direction and so forth? So he did. So that was of our first. And then I started making more introductions and so forth. And as they began looking for land, they continued to consult with me on where do you think this could, you know, would make the most sense? You know, around the city and so forth. So we pinpointed a few areas that we liked and, and finally they, they asked the question. They're like, do you think you could help us secure the financing for this? And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, we're talking about a, you know, you know, $100,000 project. You know, something like that. I'm like, okay, BJ, which was the one that came to me initially, he had been watching me on social media, right? Like, seeing the acquisitions of my partners and I with purpose built student housing properties. And these properties were not like anything to sneeze at. I mean, they were like $13 million properties, $22 million properties and so forth. And so I was like, well, I said, you know, how about if I take this to my one team that. And it's, it's kind of the four of us that have branched off. I said, how about if I take it to them and let me see what, you know, they think? So I took it to them and there was a lot of excitement because we have soccer players and field sports, you know, individuals and so forth. And, you know, so for a while it became this thing that we just kicked around. And finally Pete and BJ and myself, I guess, because, you know, they'd spoken with me about it, identified a property, and they were able to get it under contract. And so it became more reality. And so I went back to our guys and I'm like, look, like this is under contract. This is reality. Either we're going for it or we are not. Well, we quickly figured out that it probably was going to be harder to find financing just for the facility itself and having 103 acres, like, what else are we going to do with the rest of the space? Like, clearly we have to do something more. And as you know, I mean, my experience, my daughter played club volleyball. So I was used to traveling around to various locations, you know, hotels that were near, you know, the sports facilities. And some were like, depending on where we were and how big the tournament was and so forth. We were either by these, you know, mega complexes and you had hotels all around it, or we were just by some really big gym of some sort and you had to travel to go find a hotel. And so, you know, we all started thinking, well, okay, this sports, youth sports is huge. It's becoming bigger. Why not build an ecosystem around it? We're going to need some hotels, we'll probably need some restaurants, retail, office and so forth. So we actually developed this ecosystem and started pitching that and it quickly, you know, started gaining traction, especially with the city. The city's desire was, you know, in our five year plan, this is what they told us in our five year plan, we want a hotel. Like, okay, beautiful, like we can give you a hotel because we're going to be hosting tournaments April through October and we're going to need someplace for all of these families to stay when they come in because these tournaments are primarily on weekends. So it just started taking a life of its own. And as we started thinking more on it and speaking with more people, you know, it is what it is today. Currently, right now we're working to close on the land and that is scheduled for the first part of August. And then once we close on that, you know, we're, we're off to the races. We have some Lois from a variety of hotels. Different, different hotels, obviously don't want to mention those just yet. And then, you know, we even have a brewery that would like to come aboard, you know, ice cream parlor, you know, just a pizza place and so forth. And, and then, you know, as we start to think of this ecosystem, we're like, okay, what can we do, you know, more so to really ensure that any type of business, type of retail, type of restaurant, you know, supports the ecosystem that we're trying to build. So, you know, we don't want anything that's random that doesn't necessarily fit. Like my desire is, I'd really love to build a longevity clinic of Some sort there which would go very well with, you know, hand in hand with what's happening with sports and all these kids and whatnot. And it's not just going to be about soccer. I mean we will have a field house. So there's options to like have cheerleading competitions and things like that. So yeah, that's kind of where we are going. The other project we're working on is in Atlanta and that is 150 unit mixed use multifamily.
- [21:37]
A
Hey, can we chat for a second? Since you're listening to this podcast, you're already thinking like a developer. You see the potential in your community and you're ready to do more than just watch from the sidelines. That's exactly why we created the Local Developer Vault. It's a free resource full of tools, templates and trainings to help you take action. And here's the best part. When you sign up, you'll also get access to our local real estate developer community. It's full of people just like you who are making real things happen in their neighborhoods. So don't just listen to the stories. Become the next one that we spotlight on our show. The link in the show notes to unlock the vault and join our movement. Okay, so staying with the, the one in Cincinnati. One thing that you said at the very beginning is that they initially reached out to you because of having a connection. Now are you a real estate agent, a broker or anything?
- [22:27]
C
None.
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A
They came to you and said how do we find the land or where's it at? Which, which makes a ton of sense because you are the local. They saw you as a investor who was already doing these multi family and then also as a local who understands the market and understands what's missing and what's. Which is a big thing we talk about too to where locals know what you need, you know what's missing, you know what areas need to have it and you have different connections to that. Which with that did you guys, because you said you talked to the city and got their five year plan. How did you know to do that? Or did you have prior connections and relationships?
- [23:00]
C
So the one of the partners, Pete actually who, who's done a lot of the legwork, he has a few connections and I think through, through his discussion with the broker that actually was helping to secured the land, we were able to find out that information. So you know, brokers do know a lot about the areas in which, you know, they're representing. And so that was a key piece of information and there was already a market study which interestingly enough, the group that did the market study the first time around, we just engaged them to help us with kind of furthering that market study and really honing in on, even though we have some Lois from hotel flags and so forth, we really have to hone in on, on like what's going to be the right, you know, hotel for this particular spot. You know, I, you could put almost anything there if you wanted to, but what's going to do? Well, and, and so, so anyway, so yeah, it came from just knowledge, local knowledge of what's needed, what's wanted by the city, what the city has expressed because the city will put out their plans and, and so you can easily find out like what it is that they're looking to do. And that was, that was, was how we were able to capitalize on it. And interestingly, the one thing that you do say, you know, I myself am local, Pete is local and so is BJ for that matter, but the rest of my team is not. And so they rely heavily on Pete and myself to let them know, like, hey, look, you know, this will work here, but this will not work there, you know, so it's, I think it's always important to understand your backyard if you're buying in it, if you're selling in it, if you're developing in it and so forth. And you know, so that's why sometimes some developers, developments take a long time to get off the ground because out, you know, if a developer is not familiar enough with the area, they need time to study it and, and be able to really discern, you know, exactly what they're doing and if it, if it makes sense. So.
- [24:57]
B
No, I can agree more. So one thing I'm curious about is this is a ambitious development and I know this is what Chris, it's Christie, it's, it's funny because it's, I see some of the similarities between what Christie's doing and ultimately what you're doing as well. Well, how, how has that process been regarding the financing piece? Because I would assume if you bring it to just any old lender, you say, hey, I'm going to buy this 103 acre parcel and I'm going to put a sorting complex on it. I mean, not every lender is really going to understand what the implications of that are. So if you could talk through that piece and then maybe also about, is this something you're going to phase out over time and how does that look?
- [25:36]
C
We will be phasing it and we have three different phases Obviously the acquisition of the land, the horizontal piece of it, the infrastructure and so forth. And then at least having the one hotel and then the, we call it TPS Total Performance Sport. So TPS and one hotel, that is the goal for phase one. After that it's multi family build out the retail, the restaurants and so forth. And then continuing on as we go to, to kind of round it all out. Ultimately we'd love to have a store on, on premise as well. We find that that would be really ideal for the, the families that are coming and going and so forth. They don't have to travel too far for, for things like that. So, so that's the goal all said, you know, projected estimate, 450 million dollar project, which is like daunting, right? I mean I'm like, are you kidding me? $450. You know, maybe I can get my head around that, but 450 million? No, I cannot. You have spoken to so many. Banks are really kind of the last place that we're going to. It's family offices, it's private equity. You know, there's groups out there that are specifically looking to invest in these sort of things. You know, they want to get into the game but they're not the ones that necessarily want to be responsible for developing it. So yeah, just in all of our relationships and so forth and we have one gentleman on our team, his name is Brad and, and he's fantastic at just creating relationships wherever he goes. He's constantly, you know, just, just through his networking capabilities and so forth, bringing in new groups to speak to all the time. And ironically, you know, some of it's too just letting people know what we're doing and telling them, hey, if you know of anyone, my daughter, she graduated two weeks ago from the University of Kentucky and we happen to be sitting, you know, we're sitting in Rupp arena waiting for graduation to begin. My husband is sitting next to a gentleman. He lives in same city that we're building this because this is just north of Cincinnati. And they began talking and he's like, oh, my wife is doing this. And next thing you know he's like, I'm an investment banker, I've got friends, let's talk. And I received an email, I sent him a follow up email, received one back early this week and he's like, send me what you've got. You know, I'd really like to take a look at this and share with my friends and so forth. And, and then we have other partners who, or other partners that we've just again met throughout the course of our real estate journey, know individuals that are interested in land banking. So where they will buy the land for us, we still control it, of course. And upon exit from a recapitalization event, such as the refinancing of TPS in one hotel, then we finance them out and give them an equity multiple contingent upon how many years that, that they've held onto the land. We even went to the sellers, we said, hey, look, this is an opportunity for you, if you'd like. They, they were like, no, we're. We're ready to move on. We're ready to part from it, but there are plenty of sellers out there. And interestingly enough, as I started sharing this story with someone else, he's like, hey, I've got 243 acres down in the Carolinas. Would you be interested in coming down there and doing something similar? I will hold onto the land. So you just never know, like, where that financing piece is going to come from. But it's been, we've been chasing. And, and that's really what you have to do with these particular projects.
- [29:12]
A
Yeah, it's uncovering so many stones. I just got off a meeting with a regional bank down here who can do up to 75 million for ours, but they can bring in the chases, the Wells Fargos, and so they can get creative on, on certain aspects. And they know the market and they know the community. And then they were able to break down the components of our project and go, okay, that one, yes. That one, yes. That one's tough because of this. That one. We've got to make sure that there's other money makers for that to offset this and, like, just able to break that down. Yeah, it's. It, it's figuring out who. Who are the people, and it's just talking because I feel like every conversation just leads to one or two or three or four more to where it's like, okay, and then we get to meet awesome people along the way to go, okay, here's how we put the puzzle together. Where we know it's a puzzle. We know it's hard, we know it's complex, but. All right, one. One step at a time.
- [30:00]
C
Exactly. Exactly.
- [30:01]
B
Yeah. Well. And interesting enough, I have a friend here locally who's pursuing a large grocery store development. So he's got about 15 to 20 acres of land. There's going to be an anchor that's one of the big grocers, and in order to get that site graded and properly set ready to go, because of course, Kroger wants to be all the way in the back of the development with the best visibility. But that means you got to get all the entire parcel ready. You can't just, you know, mix and match. So ultimately it's going to require them to grade the site and make sure that everything's set up. So. So that in and of itself is a $20 million investment. And so they've actually gone to the county and they're working on trying to establish a TIF that would help with the initial investment to be able to do that, such that they're able to facilitate that project. Because again, it's probably going to be about $150 million project and without getting the site properly graded. And my Buddy doesn't have $20 million to create the site under. Understandably. So trying to figure all that out has been a challenge. But again, it's just one of those things where having conversations with especially people locally and whether that's the mayor or the, whoever, the constituent, the agencies that kind of handle some of this stuff to just start that process and maybe there's options out there to secure those types of pro, or to establish some type of program to help with some of this stuff too. And I'm not sure if that's something you guys have already explored.
- [31:27]
C
We have actually, we do have TIF funding lined up. So we're still honing in on the actual, like, there's a lot of back and forth because with TIFF funding, it's, you know, everybody has to agree on what things are valued at in order to like, say, okay, well, if we all agree that X, Y and Z are going to be valued at these numbers, then this is what the TIFF will be. So. But we will have some TIFF funding for the horizontal, which is great. You know, it's. It's what we would need to kind of launch. But yes, I mean, you explore all options. We've explored, you know, PACE funding, we've explored USDA funding. So, so that's been interesting. I mean, that, you know, we've even looked at like, okay, what are the banks that like to that. That kind of support that USDA funding? And should we be banking with them and creating that relationship with them? Just so, so we're kind of ready to go and show that, that we're a player. And so we, we've done that. And, and then, yeah, and then it's just, just staying in touch with people that you never know. I mean, I had someone just out of nowhere email Me, and he said, hey, my buddy has a fund and they're looking for development opportunities. Comes to me, like two weeks ago, I received this email. It's like 8:00 clock at night. And I'm like, what's that mean? You know, so hop on a call with him, and next thing you know, we're talking to this gentleman and yes, he has this fund and they will, Their, their minimum is $40 million. And so we're like, well, we can easily get to that, but it's just a question of do all the economics make sense, you know, with what they want from fees and so forth. And, and so we're working through that, but it's a very viable opportun. You know, you just, again, you just keep talking to people and seeing what, what stones you can turn over.
- [33:10]
A
You know, something else that came up in my call earlier with the bank is that the SBA is raising its limit from 5 million to 10 million come July, I think. Okay, the caveat being you cannot have any foreign investment. And that includes our friends to the north, the Canadians, which are big investors in a lot of Florida deals. But the way it's phased, you could structure it to where you could have access to that, and then depending on the phase, then take foreign investment from, from another asset avenue. Okay, so just something. And yes, the, the sba, and because we also got into boutique hotels and things like that to go, those are tougher and that's why those deals are dragging on. But depending on what it is, that could be another option to add 10 million to the capital stack.
- [33:53]
B
That's fascinating. You know what I guess question I have for you is, you know, one of the interesting things and probably a big reason for your ability to connect with a lot of people the way you have is, by the way, that you've been presenting yourself to the marketplace. Right. I'm assuming over time you've been documenting the things that you're doing in this space. So tell us a little bit about what was the impetus for wanting to start to do that? Because a lot of times, and I've met a lot of people that are hesitant about putting themselves out there because it's not the most comfortable thing in the world. So if you could share some insights about that, be great.
- [34:31]
C
Sure. It is not the most comfortable thing. And honestly, it's not even something I always like to do, and I'm not sure why. Some days I'm like, okay, yeah, I need to be out there on social media, letting everybody know. And then other days I'm like, goodness, social media, it's such a challenge. And, and maybe because, you know, I'm older and I'm in my 50s. And so for me, like, none of this comes naturally, right? It's. It's just something that, like, is. It's that you have to do it, not you want to do it sort of mentality. But I'm getting better at it. And I will say this, the places that I like to be are on, like, LinkedIn, for instance, where I just feel the audience is a little bit different than Instagram. And so, nothing against Instagram, but, you know, when you're on there and your daughter's posting pictures from graduation and you're trying to post about real estate investing and educating people on financial literacy and this, that, and the other thing, it's kind of like, I don't know, you know, am I doing the right thing or not? Facebook has been good, though, for I sprinkle in, like, my business, you know, in between Facebook posts and so forth. And that's been helpful. And then I think just, you know, being on podcasts like this, you know, I do have people that reach out to me and say, oh, I heard you on a podcast. And I had somebody randomly last night that texted me and said, oh, I saw a YouTube video of you. And I'm all the way out in California and we're thinking about going from co living to student housing. And I understand that, you know, student housing. And I, I'm like. She's like, I just randomly reached out on the chance that you would respond to me. That's what she said. And I'm like, texted her right back. I'm like, sure, like, let's talk. And she's like, really? And I'm like, why not? Like, I don't know. I, I do. I will say this, maybe to a fault, but I put out my phone number to people. Like, if it's on, you know, podcasts or places and so forth, I'm like, just text me.
- [36:23]
A
Like, people don't actually take action.
- [36:26]
C
Action, no, they do.
- [36:27]
A
You could put that out there and you could be scared that you're going to be inundated. And I'm like, that would be a great problem to have, but most people just won't even do that.
- [36:34]
C
No, they do not. They do not. So. But I think that the thing that I have learned from this is that there's a credibility that you, that you earn and, and, and, and people, like, see that and, and so it's important, right? I mean, I have always told myself I kind of want to be like, like as famous as some of these individuals who've never been on social. Not famous, but as successful as some of these individuals who've never posted on social media before. So I figured like maybe I can get to that place where, you know what, it's not even anything I have to worry about. I mean I see very successful developers in and around this area and other areas where it's like it's reputation and it's not about like what you're posting. And so, so I feel like I can get to that point to where I can bypass some of it. But for now I'll be honest with you. Like, it's helped because gentleman who reached out to me about the oh, hey, I have a friend that has a fund. He found me on TikTok like three years ago and we've stayed in touch, you know, so you just never know where something is going to come from. And again, it's like looking back, connecting the dots and seeing like, okay, you know, I had to do it for a period of time, but maybe I don't have to do it further.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah, I'm a fan of trying to get the companies to, to then take over to where it's not just that, that single person, it's like, okay, cool, now here's a front of local developers, here's the team and what's happening at Elevate to where it's like, yeah, we'll do what it takes to get it going. But I don't, I don't need to be front person. As soon as it's able to run on its own, by all means, please go.
- [38:02]
B
And I think too, especially in the industry, in the commercial real estate industry, it seems like people are less likely, less willing to put themselves out there for one reason or another. I mean, I think that the industry itself tends to be a little antiquated in the adoption of different technologies. I can speak from a broker's perspective. I'm always kind of flabbergasted by, you know, people's unwillingness to kind of consider putting themselves out there because again, you could have a lot of success and you, there's a lot of people that it's evidence that they've had a lot of success over time in the development space. But we're also going into a new time. It's not like it was a long time ago. So I think there needs to be some thought put into how do I present myself to a new marketplace that's that's transitioning and we're going through it. We're going to be going through a pretty significant wealth transfer over the next several decades. So the people that ultimately will be adopting some of these properties or, you know, these businesses are going to be of a generation where this is a more, more commonplace. And so I think it is beneficial for people to consider. And again, it doesn't necessarily have to be the, you know, anything ridiculous, right? I mean, again, you're, you're, you're, you're taking more of an educational approach to the way that you present your, the information on these platforms. Platforms. And I do the same thing. And so it doesn't necessarily, you don't necessarily have to put yourself out there like some of these influencers that are flying around and jets and all these crazy, you know, doing all these crazy things. Like it's not really your target audience. So just think who you're talking to and, you know, just put yourself out there. Don't, you don't necessarily need to dress it up like crazy. I think that oftentimes inhibits people from just getting started. But I think it is important to consider as part of your future strategies, regardless of what you end up up doing.
- [39:52]
C
I agree. One thing I will say something I've seen, especially in the multifamily space, for instance, you know, multifamily has struggled, right? There are a lot of people who, you know, three, four years ago, closed on this, closed on that, and then guess what? Bank took it back because, you know, they, you know, their strategy, their business plan, the financing and so forth wasn't as sound as it could be. And so you've seen people, like, kind of, kind of like go into hiding a little bit and have to like, okay, let me, let me rebrand myself and come back as, as X, Y and Z. And I know for me, like, especially with this development, I am very hesitant to put anything out until I feel like we are at a point where I can say this is happening and we've got X, Y and Z lined up and it's moving forward. And at that point, you know, I, I would love to be able to share and document the journey because I think it's only going to help, you know, gain exposure. And, and, and, you know, I even shared with my team, Christy, something that you had mentioned in terms of doing like a portion of equity for crowdfunding for, you know, local community. And I could totally see the community getting behind, you know, this sports, you know, ecosystem and so forth. And, and to do something like that. But we're not ready for that yet. Right. So.
- [41:13]
A
Well and once you are the, the partner that I have that has the platform it can work for, for anyone. You just need more, more than to raise more than 4 million of equity. So. Happy to connect you when it gets to that point.
- [41:23]
C
Absolutely, absolutely. So I think sometimes too like timing is everything with, with what you want to put out there and, and how it. And the optics of it too. Right. I mean there's some people that will gladly tell you everything that's going on. Then you find out that really nothing is going on. And so I don't know.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah. And I found with, with ours early on it was.
- [41:44]
C
Was it.
- [41:45]
A
And just in general it's, it's good to some extent for people to see behind the curtain to go there's, you see a shovel in the ground. There are years and years of work that, that went into that to even get to that point. So just by sharing those as you get more comfortable and, and you can't share lifetime like if we're in negotiations with the LOI and we don't have stuff signed yet, I cannot give you an up to date. Like we can, we're working on it, we're finding it but we're not messing up this part of the transaction. But. So I think just kind of. But, but to be like yeah, we, we met with the economic Development Office. We met with different. We joined the chambers and the alliances. We did this or that. We did these community outreach and, and to kind of share that stuff along the way. To be like there's a lot happening that you can't see and I can't show you because it's happening with phone calls and in person meetings.
- [42:32]
B
Yeah. Documenting your, your experiences. I think it's Gary Vee that talked about to document, not to just create interesting new content. I mean we've done, we have a project here locally that we've been working on since we, we acquired it in September and we, we've been working through it. We got a couple commercial tenants that we signed and we're going to eventually take on apartments upstairs. But it took us almost three and a half months to get the permits just to start work and the tenants. And again, this is not a huge building. This is only 12,000ft. The downstairs is like 5,700 square feet. And our tenants were inquiring like why isn't anything happening? It's like, well, there's a lot happening. You're just not seeing it. I'm Having to down the door of the water company and the sewer department, everything just try to keep, keep all these pieces moving the building, building code enforcement, all this, other things that are happening at once. But it's all on the back end and it's a lot of just constantly following up. Where are we at with this plan? Once we get responses back, we don't want to be the ones holding up the process. So we're doing everything we can quickly to get it back out there. And you know, we, we talk about some of these things and I think that's very helpful for people because again, you alluded to the, you know, the chip and Joanna, you know, content. Right. So sometimes it's like, oh, here's a house. Oh, we walk in the house. Oh, this is what we're thinking about as a design. And all of a sudden the contractors are on site and it all gets done. And then in a 30 minute episode there's a brand new house that's ready to go. And it's, you know, that could have taken six months. I mean in theory maybe it takes longer because maybe they have a couple other projects, their crews are over there and they can't get over to you until this date. And that pushes one contractor that was going to be there at that time, time back. So now you've got a month delay based on the fact that you couldn't get the, the drywallers on site on time. So it's, it's a, it's, there's a lot of moving pieces to these, these types of projects and just documenting it is, is I, you know, I, I wish I would have found something like that when I first took on my first project, you know. Yeah.
- [44:25]
A
So one, one of the things I want to touch on because you talked about partners from a different asset class and going into this, people are scared when they go from the smaller residential into bigger commercial deals and partners and they're used to doing it on their own. How do I know if I get the right partner? Maybe touch on that and how you vet partners, how you decided to peel off with a couple and maybe do a different venture and just some, some insights on how people might cross that hurdle.
- [44:49]
C
Sure. I think it's so important to vet your partners as they say, date before you, you know, get engaged or get married. And so you have to really do the same with these partnerships. I've been in some interesting partnerships for sure. Especially as we were going through the fix and flips. We had one partner who was completely hands off. He's like, here's the money. Go do it. I'm hands off. I'm a pilot. I don't have time for this. But I want to be involved. I just want to know what's going on. He wanted to be involved in the sense that he wanted to do this. These flipping houses, renovations and so forth. Another partner who had to have his hands in everything. And that was interesting because he claimed to be. I'm an electrician. I can handle doing X, Y and Z. Well, come to find out, some of his electrical work he did on one of the houses had to be redone because. Because of. He was cutting corners. And I'm like, my goodness. You know, so you just never know. You know, everybody talks a good talk, right? And I think, you know, some of it's going to be intuition. Some of it's going to be, you know, you start working with someone and you see quickly that your. Your. Your values, your visions are not aligned, then exit. It's. It's better to. To cut the ties quickly as opposed to drag it out and then. Then make it more complicated. I think, you know, you can see the red flags early on, in my opinion. And I think just by having enough conversations and ensuring that you've got, you know, something on paper so that everybody has clear expectations of who's doing what and. And who's handling X, Y and Z and how the partnership is set up and so forth. Like, some of the things we didn't do early on, especially with me and five guys, I don't think we had, like, clear roles. I mean, when I first was brought in, they're like, beth, we need somebody to help with marketing and investor relations. And I'm like, okay, I can do that. Sure. You know, and we need a website. I'll go build one. You know, at that point, you know, we didn't. At that time, we did not have, you know, capabilities that, you know, you could go into a chatgpt or something like that and build a website. Boom, There you go. Hey, guys. So we needed a logo, we needed business cards. We need all kinds of things. And so I took care of all that. And I remember the first time, they're like, okay, Beth, we need a pitch deck. Deck for this particular asset that we're looking to acquire. I'm like, what the heck is a pitch deck? And how am I going to do that? You know, so there's me Googling and. And then next thing you know, I'm staying up late, you know, with Canva and whatnot. Learning all the things. But, you know, you start to see, like, everybody's role over time and who's. Who's doing what, who's providing value and who's not. And so. And some people think that because I'm able to maybe sign on the dotted line, you know, then my part's done, and it's like, no, nope, nope, no. That's not how it works. You know, so, yeah, the. The four of us that did end up kind of peeling off, we're just. It kind of happened naturally, to be honest with you. It was one of those things where every time we were on a call, it felt as though the four of us were always, you know, the ones conversing anyways. And so you start to see, like, okay, naturally, this makes sense and so forth. So, yeah, that's been. That's been good. Have had other partners with other ventures, other things. Some have worked out, some have not. And. And that's okay. I mean, there are. It's funny that you mentioned the. The people who are like, you know, oh, I just want to go it alone. I get that. Right. Because sometimes I feel like I can go faster if I'm by myself, but I don't have quite the. The, like, the power that comes behind, you know, having. For instance, I mentioned Brad. Brad is excellent at, you know, capital raising and. And, you know, just. He can go up and talk to anybody. Right. And like that on your team. Biff is. Is awesome with operations and. And whatnot. So great. You know, that's where his strength. Everybody has their superpowers, and so combined, you know, we are so much mightier than what I would be individually by myself, and. And that's just how you have to see it. And I know that there's some people that just don't work well with others, and there's nothing you can really do about that. And if they want to go on their own, they just have to realize they're going to go at a much less slower pace. And that's just. That's just a fact.
- [49:05]
B
So, yeah, that's a big part of the discussion on this podcast is teaming partnerships, because for some of these projects, it's really hard to get done by yourself. Not to say it's impossible, but it may require you to team up, at a minimum, with strategic partners and being able to manage those relationships, which is another piece of the puzzle. But oftentimes that may mean bringing in capital partners or other partners that operate different functions within the business that can ultimately get you to the finish. Line. So it's very helpful context you shared.
- [49:37]
C
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's been a journey to be honest with you, because really a lot of my, like my catering business, I just had someone, one person helping me. You know, I knew him well enough. You know, I knew his strengths, he knew mine. He liked to do like anything related to the meats and so forth. I liked all the baking and whatnot. So that was easy with the golf business. It was just, it was me and then I ended up having an assistant. But you know, in those situations, like you're kind of directing them, when you actually have partners who are kind of, who are responsible for big components of these, these multi million dollar opportunities, you can't afford to have anyone that is not, you know, pulling their weight. Because if they're, if they're not doing their job, guess what? The project doesn't move forward as fast as quickly as you want it to. And sometimes, you know, you find, you know, maybe two of the partners have to help pull along that, that one particular individual. I think just understanding everybody's strengths and, and, and weaknesses is, is important. The guys always like to say, I'm like their mom. I just keep everybody, I'm like herding cats, you know, keep them all moving in the right direction. And we make a joke, you know, I keep everybody out of orange jumpsuits. Like if there's somebody that wants to do something. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, that is, that is not something we are gonna. I'm like, oh, that's great, that's great. You keep us out of the orange jumpsuits. I'm like, okay. You know, I mean, there was one day I showed up on a call, I had a fireman's hat on. I'm like, I'm putting out fires with you guys all the time. Like, I'm tired of doing that. So they got a kick out of it, but it's, you know, it's stuck.
- [51:10]
A
And then they're like, oh, maybe we shouldn't let these fires happen.
- [51:13]
C
Exactly, exactly. And it's, it's, it's interesting too when you are the only female in with men and the dynamics. And so it took me a while to find myself my voice, but once I did, they're like, okay, she has a voice. And yeah, she, she's laying down the line.
- [51:32]
A
She's saying, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I appreciate what you said earlier or that they roles can morph in that from the start. Like especially for these multi phase, multi year developments. You don't know a hundred percent how it all will shake out and who can do what. And so one thing that I've done from the beginning is just, just explained it is starting with us, but it will grow and evolve and there are going to be other players in there and we need to like, we kind of have an idea of where people's strengths are and we need to know at times though, someone's portion of it might be super heavy and it might be 90% of the work and that means we're all jumping in. And then when it goes back to where, okay, we've, we've got this. And, and because it is phased, you can, you can kind of strategically go about it and go, okay and each step of the way and just reminding each other like this is a, this is a checkpoint. Like we haven't officially dialed in the exact final roles and responsibilities. So this is, everyone's still, not that you're competing but you're, you're still understanding and getting an idea around the workloads and what's involved to go, okay, so when we do make this official and break this down, then it makes sense and everyone goes in eyes wide open. Like yeah, that, that, that makes sense. Based on the value that everyone's bringing and the time you can continue to put forward, but then also putting in different parameters to say, hey, here's our checkpoint. Every six months we're going to see are these roles and responsibilities working or did someone have a life incidence and they're, they shifted and so now we need to switch around a certain part of the operation. So just having those as the, the constant checkpoints on paper to go, okay, like this isn't something that, oh, I'm pissed at you. This week we're going to do. This is our six month meeting. Everyone come to the table. Is this working? Is this aligned? Do we need to adjust anything? Great. Cool.
- [53:14]
C
Right? Yeah, yeah. I've had, you know, those situations where like January come January, February, March, that is a very heavy season for me. I handle all the K1s for the investors, the tax returns, I mean I don't physically do the tax returns. Obviously we have a cpa. But ensuring that the CPA has everything that they need and, and it's, I mean it's like constant emails back and forth, back and forth and whatnot. And especially now we're in a really good cadence because we've had these assets now for several years. And so therefore like there's no new investors. It's, it's clockwork but the first coup of years, especially after shortly acquiring them, I'm like pulling my hair out. Like I didn't even know what I was doing and managed to get through it. So it worked out. But that being said, it's, it's. Yeah, it's where, like, okay, you know, we know not to bother Beth as much in January and February, but we can after things have settled down, you know, And I was very happy to report this year. I mean, we were on time with everything and it was like, goodness gracious, like, how often does that happen? For most investors, it doesn't. So I was pretty, I was pretty tickled about that.
- [54:24]
B
Well, Beth, we really appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing your insights about the projects you're working on. And I'm really excited to follow along with the sporting complex. It's really not far away from us, maybe an hour and a half, two hours away. So once you guys break ground and start moving along, I'd love to maybe even swing by and check it out because it seems like it'd be a really cool, you know, profile to do or something.
- [54:48]
C
Yep. We'd love to have you join us. So hopefully. Yeah, I will definitely keep you in the loop. And obviously I'm in touch with Christie, so we'll be tracking each other and seeing how our projects are going. So.
- [55:01]
B
Yeah, well, and Christie's from Ohio as well, so I know always an excuse to go back to Ohio and check out new, new projects.
- [55:07]
C
So there you go. And I love visiting Florida, especially the, the West Coast. So, yes, my favorite.
- [55:15]
B
Well, great. Well, Beth, we really appreciate your time and we're really looking forward to keeping in touch. If you want to learn more about you learn more about, you know, or just get in touch. What's the best way to do that?
- [55:26]
C
Well, I'm going to share my phone number again. 513-470-1078. Feel free to text me. You can also email me, Beth. Investingwithbeth.com you can check out me out@investingwithbeth.com and then I'm on LinkedIn under Beth Januzi Underhill and then on TikTok and Instagram @InvestingWithBeth.
- [55:49]
A
Thanks so much for coming on and sharing this. There were so many insights and nuggets of wisdom you shared that I know the listeners will get something great out of this.
- [55:56]
C
Well, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
- [55:59]
B
Absolutely. We really appreciate your time, Beth. For those of you guys who are watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe it makes a huge impact on ability to reach a broader audience and we greatly appreciate the support along with that. If you guys are listening to any podcast format, whether that's Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please leave a five star review. The more five star reviews we achieve, the broader the reach we achieve and ultimately more and more people get inspired to take on their first real estate development project. So thanks again so much for tuning in and we'll see you all next time.