← 🎙️ Local Real Estate Developers
🎙️ Local Real Estate Developers
The Deal Another Developer Passed On Became Their Breakthrough | EP #59
00:55:32
Loading summary
Transcript211 lines
- [00:00]
A
This is the Local Real Estate Developer Podcast, where we share the stories of locals across the country who took that empty lot or that old building and turned it into something awesome that their community needs. I'm Christy Candle, and I've been a real estate developer my entire career. My co host, Rafael, is a commercial broker. And together we're sharing the stories of locals making a huge impact on their communities. And what we've learned is you don't need millions in the bank or decades of experience to get started. You just need the confidence, tools, and the right people around you. This pot podcast is your chance to gain the confidence to get in the game. Because real estate development isn't just for the insiders anymore. It's for people like you, too. Welcome to the Local Real Estate Developer Podcast, where we share stories of locals doing awesome projects in their communities to make it easier for you to get off the sidelines and get into the game in your own town. I'm one of your co hosts, Kristi Kandle, and I'm a real estate developer investor, and I teach locals how to become developers in their community. And our guest today. Today I found just by scrolling through Instagram, trying to find people doing cool projects. And I was like, these ladies, These ladies are doing something cool. So I would like to welcome Amira and Kado to the.
- [01:12]
B
So excited to be here. So happy.
- [01:15]
A
Heck, yeah. So one of the things we like to do is just kind of start off and give a origin story of one so you can each kind of say how you got into your background story and maybe just real estate in the first place. And then we can get into how you met each other and what you're doing now.
- [01:31]
B
I'll start. I came from corporate. I worked five years at Deloitte, and I was really passionate about building wealth through real estate and building wealth in general. But one way was through real estate and the stock market, of course. And so I wanted to learn more about real estate, and then I got my real estate license. I then moved to Portland, Oregon, and I met Amira through a Facebook page. She posted. She's been a Realtor for about nine years, and she posted on a Facebook page. Page. It's like a woman investor page. And she wanted to get into investments. And I. I knew a little bit about it and I wanted to share that with her. So we're like, let's go meet over coffee. So we met at a coffee shop and we just, like, hit it off right away. And that's how it started. We were like, oh, My God, we're the same people. Like, let's do this together because everything's better doing it together with a friend versus doing it alone, I think. And she thought so as well. So we were like, let's go do our first flip. So our first one was a mobile home flip and we literally made $6,500. And I thought we were balling. I was like, heck yeah. We did have a selfie at US bank together, like, so proud of our $6,500 check. And honestly, it was not even about the money. It was just more about, like, this process worked, right? Like, we had a plan. We met every single week, we found the properties and I knew that we could build something more. And then that's how I wanted to do something more than just flipping. Because honestly, we didn't really like flipping real estate. Like, it works, but it's not. Like it's not fun and enjoyable, honestly.
- [02:53]
A
It's a full time job and you're literally just doing everything that happens in development. A very condensed schedule.
- [02:59]
C
And it's just.
- [03:00]
B
And things always go wrong. Right? So it's like. And same with development, but it's just not as fun. I don't know what it is. I just don't like it. So we were like, I was scrolling through Instagram and I found these two guys in Washington who were teaching development and I was like, let's do that. And so I pitched it to Amira and she was like, let's go for it. And so that was December 2024 and our first project, we got it under contract June of 2025.
- [03:24]
A
So that is awesome. Yeah.
- [03:28]
C
Yeah, it was really awesome. Like going from. Going from being a realtor for nine years and primarily just helping buyers and sellers and then had a little stint there where I did finance because I have a degree in finance from before. So when we had met and chatted and we're like, okay, well, we have different backgrounds but they're aligning and it makes so much sense. And so when we were thinking of doing investing together, we're like, okay, well a single family home just seems like a little bit much, so why don't we start small? So we did a mobile home flip. And like she said, like, it was, it was proof of concept. It works. We worked amazing together. We're like, okay, let's rinse and repeat.
- [04:03]
B
Yeah, but it was for higher returns.
- [04:05]
C
Yeah. And yeah, literally. And development, honestly, like, it's just been so wonderful and truly, I'm so happy she even pitched that idea because I don't know that I would have even honestly considered it otherwise. And I don't know why, because I think, you know, you're used to hearing people say, okay, I'm going to. If you're not a realtor, you're a fix and flipper, or you're a wholesaler. And development wasn't even like my vision at all. So when she brought it, I'm like, well, that sounds like a genius idea.
- [04:31]
B
Let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [04:33]
A
And I think that's the main point. Like, when I ask people how they got into development, it's always an interesting story for me because people get in on accident. Like, Like, I personally, at my very first job out of college, I was like, yo, I'm moving to Florida and I'm gonna figure it out when I get there. And I did a job fair, ended up working for a sign company who put them up for CVS Pharmacy and then saw those were the developers and then ended up joining one of those developers. But it was like a total accident. Yeah. Because I, I grew up in a small town in Ohio. I had no idea. I never even thought how my town was built. I never even thought. We just said, oh, those are the rich guys who own all the buildings.
- [05:06]
C
100 we were literally talking about it yesterday that, like, we truly feel like this is the career that's meant for us. We love it so much. Just like our personalities and just how we work and how we problem solve, which is just like absolutely crucial in development. It's okay. This is where we're meant to be. Let's do that.
- [05:23]
A
Yeah.
- [05:23]
B
No, I love it. I love that.
- [05:25]
A
So part of one of the main questions people have, if you're doing smaller real estate investing, it's like, I can do it myself. I can do the single family flip. I can do the house hack. I can do it. And then when we talk about development, that's a team sport and you really do need partners if you want to go far and you want to do more than one. So can you maybe talk more? Because clearly you. You found alignment. What else did you each internally do to go, okay, this is a person that I want to do something with.
- [05:51]
C
Yes, I'll go first. But basically, when we first chatted, we met at a coffee shop. We were, we were just chatting it up. It was, we're having a great time. But there's a sense of, for me personally, like, peace that I felt with when I spoke with her. And I'm going to be 100 transparent when I say that there's so many people in the industry, and I've just never felt that before. And even now, like, the more that I am in the industry, the more I realize, like, oh, my God, I'm never leaving you.
- [06:16]
B
Yeah.
- [06:20]
C
So hard to find. And so knowing now what I know only just solidifies that initial feeling that I had. And honestly, not only that feeling, but just the way that we work together. Yeah. We have mutual love, respect, trust. I mean, we've seen partnerships where there's just none of that. And so as long as our foundation
- [06:37]
A
is good, you know.
- [06:38]
B
Absolutely.
- [06:39]
A
Yeah. What was it for you to. To, you know, were you. Did you also trust your gut to say, hey, no, this is. This is right.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah, instantly, like, I can. She has my social, I have hers. I know her address.
- [06:52]
A
You can make it together. Literally, it's like, no, you're going to have it all.
- [06:55]
B
It's like we have old trust. Like, she is my work wife. Right. So, like, we want to do everything together. Development is scary. Like, doing your first flip alone, maybe you can do that. Yeah, sure. But doing a development alone, I don't think I could do it. You know, I really wanted to have that, like, someone that I trust that I can bounce ideas off of. And then we went from that to, like, let's find our first deal that works and. And we can go into, like, how we found our first deal. Why don't you share that? Actually?
- [07:21]
C
Yeah. Yeah. One thing I was going to say too, is that one way that I just, like, it solidifies for us, like, this is truly a partnership because there are so many projects that Kado has brought in or projects that I brought in, and it's like, okay, I, me and her individually could have just said, hey, I'm just going to do this. But every time we find ideas, like, oh, my gosh, I have this to share with you. What do you think? Let's run our numbers. So it's like every. It's like, hey, I found something in the wild. What do you think? We just agreed to it, which is really nice. But, like, for example, our first project, honestly, initially, when we first found our project, it was interesting because we were always kind of told, you know, off market deals, off market deals. That was like our main thing. And I'm like, you know, being a realtor, having our real estate license, like, everything for the most part is on market. This is such a weird concept. Okay. So we just started browsing Zillow and, like, we knew what to look for. We knew what Area we wanted to be in. Yeah. And we came across this home actually that was not in great condition. It was pending for two months prior on market and it came back on the market and it's been on the market for about like two weeks or so. And interestingly enough, another developer is the one that had it pending and backed out of it. Yeah. So we were like, okay, well this is interesting.
- [08:34]
B
Yeah. We're like red flag. Why did the Nevada, like, maybe this is not a good deal, but we're like, let's just put it under contract and do our due diligence and figure out if this is a bad deal for us and not make any assumptions.
- [08:44]
C
Yes. And that honestly played in our favor because we later learned that based on the zoning code, they were actually planning to build an apartment building, which wasn't our intention at all. We were just wanting to do our cute little cottages in this area. So. And it really goes to show you that each developer can have a seven by box. And it's just so different than what they were looking for. But we ran our proformas, we thought of every possible way that we can make it work. Do we keep the house? Do we demo the house? But we came to a conclusion honestly that in the end the house that was on there was just so far gone that financially it would not been a good decision for us to keep the home.
- [09:22]
B
Yeah.
- [09:23]
C
So we demoed it and now we're doing four cottages.
- [09:25]
B
Yes.
- [09:26]
A
I love that what you said there is, is so important. People ask all the time in development. They're like, well, what, what's the property worth? Or like a property owner might have it. And it's like, it totally depends because if I'm putting a food truck on your lot and I'm doing that, that's totally different than if I'm building a single family home or a quadplex or a mixed use commercial space with housing above. It all depends on what can I turn it into? What does zoning allow? What am I willing to do? And then I can back into what that number is to where. Yeah, it's not that. It's awesome that you guys kept going and looking to go even though a developer passed on it. So what was, what was that thought process when you, when you had found out, okay, well, a developer passed, but you were still going to do it anyway because like you just articulated that amazing. Like you're like, well, but let's check it out for ourselves. But was there, was there any doubt? Was there? How did you get to that confidence level to go. Yeah, let's try.
- [10:17]
B
We were spooked, honestly, and. But we just were like, you know, that's what a due diligence period is. Right. We'll put it under contract. We'll use our two to three weeks that we had, and let's just go through everything. Let's do a soil test. We went through A through Z to test it out. And we figured out, wait, this actually can work for our cottage cluster. And so that's what we did. And we're so happy. And Portland is very unique in Oregon, is very unique in general to allow us to do cottage clusters. And I'm sure you know from your experience with other podcasters that have been on or other developers that have been on, where you can build up to three to 16 houses on one lot. That's what we did. We are putting two houses in the front, two houses in the back. We're doing a middle housing land division, and we can sell off each house individually. This is not a build to rent. We're all doing build to sell for these. And we picked a fantastic location. Like, I'm so happy Amira found this house. And it's next to shops, restaurants, high end grocery stores, you name it. It's the most walkable, friendly neighborhood. It's so cozy. You can walk to yoga down the street. You can get a cute little smoothie down the street. Like, it is just so perfect. So we're just so happy. And Amira has this great advice from our mentor that we, that we took their course.
- [11:24]
C
Yeah. And honestly, we carry it with us with every deal that we get. And it, for me, it's. It makes sense. Like, we get it, but once it's been said to us, it's like, okay, we get it. But basically our mentor was saying that in a great market, anything will sell. But in a challenging market, great location, sell. And we just take that with us because all of our projects are in such wonderful locations. And that's very intentional because like you said when you were, when you asked, like, you know, what were you feeling when you went for this property and someone backed out and, and it wasn't even a great market then. It was pretty neutral. But for us, it's that we run our pro formas. But also it's more than the pro forma for us. We look at our location, we look at absorption rate. What are people, how quickly are things selling? What are they selling for? What are buyers looking for in terms of square footage? And so we do a lot of market research. Before we even jump into this. So with that being said, it's like it spooked us in the beginning because we're like, okay, we're new to this. What are we missing? Ultimately, we had to trust in our research and in the information that we're receiving and make an executive decision. And we said, let's do it. And honestly, so far, so good.
- [12:29]
B
Yeah. Location is a 10 out of 10.
- [12:31]
C
That.
- [12:31]
B
That sold me first.
- [12:32]
A
Yeah. Yep, yep. And can you break down so just what a cottage cluster is? Because it is a new concept to certain parts of the country. It's very normal in others. And then how your. If your plan is to sell, then is there an hoa or are there certain agreements that you're putting in place for common areas? So just a little bit of that.
- [12:51]
B
Yeah. And we'll. We'll both answer this. So we are so blessed to jump into development when we. They've approved cottage clusters in Oregon, so in Portland right now, they're also waiving SDC fees, which is also great for us. So we couldn't come in at a better time. Right. And so what a cottage cluster is, is when you have multiple houses on one lot. And so you can put as minimum of 3 up to 16.
- [13:14]
A
And does it matter the lot size? Like, is there.
- [13:17]
B
Okay, minimum lot size is 5,000 square feet.
- [13:20]
C
Yeah.
- [13:21]
B
And it depends on the zoning too. But for this particular zone, 5,000 square feet. And so we're able to put in four houses and we're doing detached versus attached. Some people like to do attach. We think buyers prefer to have detached homes. When you asked about the way, what's great is you have two options. You can sell them as a single family home or you can sell them as a condo. Technically. But we are doing. Because we are. We have our real estate license. We've worked with buyers before. We know no matter what the HOA is, it scares people. There's an HOA like, run, no, I don't want it. It could be $5, and they don't want it. So we're not doing that. So there's no HOA for ours. It's a single family home, and they own the land underneath the home as well.
- [14:01]
C
And that was really important for us because even with our going through middle housing land division, either way, we think that our houses would sell. But also, and honestly, if we went through the HOA route, the condo conversion route, it would have been actually a lot faster process for us and it would have been easier for us, but we would rather do Something that's a little bit harder, a little bit more lengthy if the outcome is going to benefit the community as a whole. And that's very important to us. Like, we will take the grunt of the things that just kind of makes you say, oh, okay, well, let's just do it. If it means that at the end everyone's going to be happier and like what we're building more, you know.
- [14:39]
B
Totally. Yeah.
- [14:40]
A
Me ladies are my people. Like, I love. I absolutely love this. Because you're thinking about it. You're not just thinking about how do I look at the spreadsheet? It works.
- [14:49]
B
Okay.
- [14:49]
A
We're going to go execute. You're thinking about the community, you're thinking about the after effect, the people who are going to live in it, who are. Whether it's their first time, they're an investment, you know, for a mom or a dad that that is getting older. So I love this.
- [15:02]
C
Yeah.
- [15:03]
B
Like, we have three different projects. So right now we're building 11 units in three different locations. And one location we're putting community garden so we could fit one more house that we're actually deciding not to do that and put a community garden in there. Another project, we're adding a library stands community who can not only just live close together, but kind of create more of that. Like bringing out that neighborhood love where you know your neighbors and you want to be around them. And then also the community also loves to be in our. In our area. So that's something that's really important for us. Accessibility is also really important to us. So we're making sure that our homes have primaries on the main level so people can age. Like, don't have to. Like they have to age and sell their home and move out. We want to make sure people can stay in these homes as well for the lot.
- [15:44]
A
What's the average size of the cottage homes that you're building? Just to give some perspective.
- [15:49]
C
Yeah. There. So there's two that we kind of go between. So one is about 1500 square feet and then one's about 1200 square feet. And it varies depending on design. But you bring up a good question, actually, because prior to the SDC fees being waived, actually Portland saw a huge influx in homes that were about 700 to 900 square feet. And the reason that they did that is because you cap out on when you can get SDC wa, which was, I think so their price, like their cost to build versus what they can sell for. And honestly, it just got. It was such a saturated market that things were Sitting for a very long time. Yeah. And people were just not wanting that, honestly.
- [16:29]
B
So as we were used to be full time realtors, we would be the ones setting up the searches for our buyers. Right. And they would say minimum a thousand square feet. So we knew that like if it's even 999, you're not even going to be in the searches because people don't want to house that's less than a thousand square feet. And honestly I, I wouldn't either. So we knew that we're. And that's kind of one of our criteria is our homes have to be above a thousand square feet.
- [16:53]
A
Yeah. And you've said SDC a few times. Can you explain what that is to people who.
- [16:57]
C
Yeah. So system development charges. So basically it goes, it's based off of the home that you're building and then it breaks down a bunch of different things that at the end you're not only paying for your permits, but you're paying for your SDC fees. So if your permit stays $10, you get slapped on 15, 20 more. And now your permit fee per unit's about 30,000. And it's like, okay, that I honestly, I'm so happy that they temporarily waived that across the board because I. Not only will that create density, which is what we're looking for in Portland, but also it will allow developers because for us, we want it to be a win win for all, a win for the community, a win for us, a win for our investors. And I think that this is such a huge positive play because now we can build homes that people want to live in. Yeah. That are 1500 square feet.
- [17:41]
B
And just, just to add to like.
- [17:42]
C
Yeah.
- [17:43]
B
What the actual SDC charges are. So anytime that you tap into the utilities of the city, it will charge a fee. Right. So we would be charged a certain amount times four since we're building for four units. And so we're so blessed that Portland has this great idea to encourage development since there's a lack of housing in Oregon. In total, I believe they need about 100,000 houses to fulfill the gap that we have in Oregon. And their goal is to build thousand annually and in Portland to encourage development. Because this waiving STC is only in Portland, not outside of outside of Portland. It's encouraged more development. So it's really working really well. And other cities should honestly copy that. And then we'll go to those cities and build more there. But waiving the STC fees helps a lot to lower your cost. And yeah, that's what we did well.
- [18:32]
A
And if it's 30,000 per house, like if you think about what are you selling each of these for?
- [18:36]
B
Just ballpark, 650,000.
- [18:39]
A
Okay, 30 grand extra on top of that, like that's a huge chunk of money.
- [18:43]
B
Absolutely.
- [18:45]
C
You don't want to dump that on the buyer because it's like, hey, you don't qualify, therefore now the purchase price goes up 30,000. I feel like it's a win win for everyone involved, honestly.
- [18:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome when communities see that and I know in a lot of cities I work in across the country that they are at minimum having these conversations and I think normally when we give them the business stance and say hey, it, we're not saying this because we're the big greedy developers who don't want to spend an extra 30 grand. It's here's the numbers, here's what it actually looks like to the people who are building and buying this and this is what this is doing. So you know, go back to your utility divisions and say, hey, maybe we should because we're going to get those ongoing fees. You're going to get the, the water and the sewer and the utility stuff, you're going to have that come back in. But you're also going to have more people living within your community. So they're going to be living there, paying taxes there, driving on your stuff and, and it'll all like, it might not be that direct repayment, but it's all going to be part of that. And they'll be because of your guys developments be healthier, happier and want to stay longer. So like those are win win wins.
- [19:50]
B
And when you mentioned like 3D developers, we didn't know that there's actually a lot of greedy developers. I, I, I have really passionate about this because right now we're seeing 95% of the new const. They don't have appliances and that personally grinds my gears. I'm gonna try not to curse.
- [20:13]
A
Hey, can we chat for a second? Since you're listening to this podcast, you're already thinking like a developer. You see the potential in your community and you're ready to do more than just watch from the sidelines. That's exactly why we created the Local Developer Vault. It's a free resource full of tools, templates and trainings to help you take action. And here's the best part. When you sign up, you'll also get access to our local real estate developer community. It's full of people just like you who are making real Things happen in their neighborhoods. So don't just listen to the stories. Become the next one that we spotlight on our show. Click the link in the show notes to unlock the vault and join our movement.
- [20:52]
B
Like our builder asks us like, hey, do you guys want to like take out your appliances? Like most people aren't doing that anymore. And we're like, we don't want to be most people. Right. We don't want to join the 95%. I'm, we're proud to be the 5% of people who will have a washer, a dryer and a fridge. I can't believe that people can buy a house for even any price point, but especially ours at 650,000 and then you take away appliances. I think it's really unfair. The extra savings that we get, we don't want it. Right. We want our buyers to be happy to buy our houses and be able to go to the grocery store next door and then fill it up. I can't imagine buying a house for over half a million. You want to go get groceries and fill up, you're like, oh wait, I don't have a fridge. You know, like that just, it's. I can't do it. So any Amiga development home will have full appliances no matter how much the price is. Because we care. We're first gen Americans. Me and me are both, we've been first time home buyers. We know what it's like to have your savings to do your down payment, your closing costs, your inspections. So expensive to buy a home. And we don't want to have the extra burden beyond our buyers to go out and have to go buy their washer, dryer and a fridge. So that's a rule for us. Integrity means everything. And we're always going to have full appliances and that, that your reputation is everything.
- [22:04]
A
And it's. That's going to go further to where, yeah, it's not going to be the immediate win, but the that karma, that reputation that happens over the long run, like that is going to have people attracted and magnetized to come in and help you guys grow your mission and what you're doing, which to that extent, how, how are you guys currently funding? Maybe from an investor standpoint and then we can even talk into lending and how that stuff works.
- [22:26]
B
Yep. So we have private money partners. We're so thankful that we reached out to our network, our friends and family and they wanted to be private money partners. We were honestly scared to ask. I don't know why, looking back on it, where they worse they could have said as no. But we're like, should we ask and
- [22:40]
C
what do we do?
- [22:40]
B
And we just reached out and they were like, heck yeah. Like, we like your returns that you're offering. We offer healthy returns that beat the stock market to our investors. So they're really excited to join. And that's how we got it. So it's private money, partnership and then
- [22:53]
C
a loan, construction, and ultimately too, it's that they are investing in Amica as the brand. And also individually they trust us. There's a level of trust that they see in us and they, they know that we lead with integrity. We have. We're very morally aligned. And I. That is so important. And we want that to lead into our brand as well, because we are the brand. And that is so. Because when people even similar to what Car was saying, you know, you, you don't have appliances, but then you have a community garden or you don't have appliances, but then you have a library stand that is trying to bring community. It just doesn't make critical a little like, we care.
- [23:28]
B
No, we can't do that.
- [23:30]
C
We can do and, and our stuff shows like when you see what we're wanting to do and even if it costs a little bit more, but it's not to make a bigger impact, we will do it. And that to us, sells to us, to the community, to our investors. It's just, it's a win for everybody.
- [23:44]
B
Yeah, like in this neighborhood, we could put honestly lower quality tile and it would still sell because location sells more than the home. But like, we're gonna go be a little bit extra. Like, we want the nice tile. You know, we do a little things for luxury design at a really good price point. Because it's like we care more than just selling the home. Like, we're not just developers who get in the game and they want to just make a profit and, you know, walk away afterwards. Like we care about. Like this home will be standing for 30, 40, 50 years. Right. Or so. It's like I want us to have a footprint in, in our community and people will know like, that's an Amica development home. Right. That's what I want for us. And we both, we both agree. Yeah, I love that.
- [24:24]
A
So from the lender standpoint, that's another one that people are a little hesitant. Like, why would a bank give me a loan if I don't have experience? Or. And am I talking to Chase and Wells Fargo? Am I talking. But typically it ends up being regional banks. But how did you guys do that
- [24:38]
B
part, yes, it definitely is hard in the beginning when you have no experience. I think we underestimated how hard it would be actually. But we thankfully found a local developer, a local lender who understood what cottage clusters are. Because when we went out outside of local, they're like, what is a cottage cluster? Like, it was like, yeah, we can't,
- [24:57]
A
I don't know how to underwrite this.
- [24:58]
B
There's so many issues. They were actually appraising it as a. What is it called? Attached unit.
- [25:05]
C
Yeah.
- [25:05]
B
Like a quadplex versus four single family homes. Because they couldn't understand. Appraising a quadplex versus four single family homes is completely different. So it wasn't meeting the appraisal value. So you have to go with a local lender that understands your city and the codes and what you can build on there. Because when we were going to Californ, yeah, maybe they had a little bit slightly better rates, but they were like, no, actually when they looked at them, we don't know what to do, we can't do it. And they were bummed not to do it. But like higher ups, they just didn't understand it. Yeah.
- [25:34]
C
And honestly, like the one thing that I'll say too is that it was difficult for us in the beginning to find a lender who would lend on first time developers, especially since we're doing it just us and we're new to development. But I really think that you really do have to persevere and keep asking, leave no stone unturned.
- [25:50]
B
Yeah.
- [25:50]
C
And honestly, like have conversations, connect with people, someone might know someone and it's just like, could be one conversation that you're like, actually, yeah, let me give this person a call. And that's honestly what happened.
- [26:01]
B
Probably our 10th lender that said yes. We had to go through a lot of no's and it hurt every time. We're like, are we going to actually build this project?
- [26:09]
A
And so we know it works, the numbers work, it's here, we have the investors and we can't get the debt.
- [26:13]
B
What the heck. And lender that ended up working with us, he's very happy with the appraisal value. Like the land appraise for a really great amount and so everything is working well.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, that, that's such a huge component. And everything you just said there and everything you've said so far, it's, it's about relationships. Like when you're, when you're talking to the, the banks, they're betting on you. Same way with the investors, they're betting on You. And then they're going into their internal groups and they're pitching you. They're. They're pitching the project, but they're like, are we getting our money back? Can these two ladies deliver? And so it's just. It's very much relationship building and giving them the details. We had someone on a couple episodes ago who did something that I hadn't even done yet. But, like, I'll have banks and I'll get their. Their salesperson, their customer person to come out, and I'll be like. Like, we were here in Fort Myers Beach. We had a hurricane wipe out our entire community. So we're in a 10 to 15 year rebuild. One of the things that we're doing is we're building modular. Because here, if you can build modular for 325A square foot, that's actually a steal, which is a good number in your market. It's not a good market for $125 a square foot in the Midwest or something. But so they can basically, in a factory in Atlanta, build modules, and you. It's. It's a house, but you could build a module that fits on a trailer in 21 days, and it ships out. And you've already in the field done the underground utilities. You've done the structure to elevate the building. And so you've got that all set. And then they will literally just crane in the modules and then tie them together and they'll stack them on top. And I had the. The lender down here. I was like, sergio, you got to come out here and watch this, because I can explain this to you. But if you see it for yourself, if you're here with the contractors, if you understand, if you watch it being craned, if you're able to see, oh, these are all the same finishes that we would have if they were building it in the. In the rain and the. In the whatever. And that. That, like, alone helped them go, oh, we can wrap our heads around this to be able to tell it internally. But what someone on the pod did, he was. I think it was actually Luke in Ohio, who's doing a similar. Just kind of transforming the whole town. But he had the underwriters come to.
- [28:13]
B
That is so smart. And I was like, that's.
- [28:17]
A
That's good. He's like, guys, I've already gotten. You know, you've seen everything because they're lenders on multiple, multiple deals of his. He's like, we'll talk about every little part. I'll tell you what didn't Go right, went. You know, because construction never goes as planned. And he, that went so far and he brought multiple of the, the regional banks around just to be like, here it is.
- [28:36]
B
Like, yeah, that's awesome. They gotta see it to believe it. Yeah, that's very smart.
- [28:41]
A
And then it just built so much more trust within that because it's, it's not going for again, that one deal and that one loan. It's, hey, we're gonna be in this for 20 plus years. Like, let's build relationships across the board. So then it is the easy button. We get the next deal, we underwrite it faster. We see it, it, we call you up lender and you say, yeah, let's go. We get our investors like, of course, let's roll it back. Yeah. Which. So to that extent, you know, we've, you've had to have had many challenges along the way. Are there a couple stories that might stand out just to help people go, like, because you clearly know what you're talking about, you know what you're doing. You, you know, problems are going to come up and you're going to solve them. But maybe some of of those challenges be like, yeah, this one gave us a complete gut punch and we were
- [29:20]
B
like, like, which one?
- [29:23]
A
Right, Exactly. Which one?
- [29:29]
C
Yeah, I'll say.
- [29:30]
B
Okay.
- [29:31]
C
I'll honestly say that who you partner with is very important. And I think that, you know, especially when you're new and you're very excited, if you have this crazy ambition, you're just like, yes, yes, yes, let's go, let's go, let's do this, whatever. But I think if you just reel it in and see what's in front of you and see honestly, like, who you're surrounding yourself with, with why you're surrounding yourself with whoever you're your partner is, whatever. And honestly, like, have a moment where you actually understand, is this a red flag? Is this not a red flag? I think that's so important. And like, thankfully, thankfully, like the good that comes out of this is like, it only confirms for me how lucky I am to have truly, honestly, I, I think that, you know, when you're excited in the beginning, everything just seems shiny and. Yeah. And you have. Yeah.
- [30:17]
B
You know, but, but Amir said that better than I would have. Like, there's. And I love the balance because there's a lot of sharks in the game. Right. So if you come in, you've got this lot, you have money, and you're like, I want a partner, I want a mentor to guide me. Will you mentor Me, they will fully take advantage of you. Right. They will charge you a fee that's very high to provide mentorship. But in the end, you're. You're the one doing all the work. It's still your money. And so we, we learned that we can trust ourselves, we can do it. We don't need the outside mentors to come in to partner with us. Like, we can get their advice. We can absolutely people for their time if they need it. But we're not going to invite people in to like join LLCs with us anymore. Like, that was something that we learned early on. Like, we will be the only ones that will partner on an llc. Together. We can do maybe a JV agreement perhaps, or maybe just do a promissory note, but there'll be no joining our LLC if we don't know you. And yeah, it's just us.
- [31:11]
C
Yeah, that's it.
- [31:12]
A
Yeah.
- [31:13]
B
And it's.
- [31:13]
C
And I honestly, like, I just think that's, that's so important because a year ago we wouldn't have known that. Okay, great. Let's just create the account like you're new.
- [31:22]
B
Share that as advice all the time. Create an LLC for just this one property. But it's like, there's a lot of implications that can happen from being in an LLC with someone if they've got other things going on. So people don't really share that. They just share. Protect yourself. And it's like protecting yourself means also not doing an llc, you know? Yeah, we didn't learn that. We didn't know that in the beginning.
- [31:41]
C
Yeah, like that's, that's a challenge. And then honestly, another one, I would say too, is that, yeah, we have a list.
- [31:46]
B
Yeah. How much time do you have?
- [31:48]
A
You keep going.
- [31:49]
C
But honestly, another one too is just for us, it was understanding our soft cost, I think like when we went in.
- [31:58]
A
Well, and maybe explain what soft costs are first. And then.
- [32:00]
C
Yes, yes, yes. So all pre development, like everything that it takes to get you to getting your permits. And so that looks like engineer, surveyor, civil engineer, architect, all. Everything that gets you there.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:15]
C
And so honestly, and, and ignorantly, when I first started and then we were talking about doing our first development deal, I was like, great, we have enough money for our holding costs and we have enough money for our down payment. And that's it. Because oftentimes with like a fix and flip, you bring your down payment, you. You have your holding costs and you're good because you're using your loan to do the remodel. But in this case, it's like, okay, great, we're about 200 grand in, in cash.
- [32:40]
B
Yeah.
- [32:42]
C
Thankfully we were able to pivot, we were able to secure whatever we needed. So we're totally in the clear. But it's that if we were quick thinkers, I think that could have ended really bad.
- [32:52]
B
So word of advice, calculate your soft cost. Absolutely, yes.
- [32:56]
C
And over.
- [32:58]
B
Yeah, over, over, compensate.
- [33:00]
A
That, that was one of the things that amazed me when I first got started. And, and they're completely different. So I started on the east coast and just for example, like, oh, I'm going to date myself but like close to 20 years ago you could build a family dol is a single tenant 8,000 square foot building on like just about an acre of land. You could build that in the Southeast. So Florida, Alabama, Georgia for about 900 to 1.1 million. That was land cost, building costs, utilities, soft costs, permit fees, everything. When I went to California and I opened our office in Orange county and we're starting to build the exact same thing. The only thing that changes is we're now in a different state. And what that meant was one, our land costs went up, but it wasn't significantly more more. Our fees went from being anywhere from 5 to 40,000 per project to 250 to 350,000 per project. Because just even traffic impact fees alone just stands out as like normally about $75,000 per project and that was like $1,000 on the East Coast. But so then to have these marathon meetings to go, whoa, like how could it be so that whole project being like, you know, anywhere from 1.8 to 2.5 million to build the same thing. And you're just looking at it. And I had another project that, that same building to get the water tap connection and capacity to pay all of those fees just for one building. That ended up being something ridiculous like yeah, wow. And it was just like what? And so you learned it. That's my due diligence checklist at the beginning to ask what are those fees? Cause you're not paying it until the permits issued right Later. But it's like you're gonna have to pay that at some point.
- [34:35]
B
Right.
- [34:36]
A
And then I just even having another a project and it was a 5 acre mixed use or commercial development in, in Palmdale, California and it had a mixed use building. It had a Chick Fil a on the corner, a Dunn Edwards and Aldi and a couple other buildings. And I ended up helping out this developer halfway through their construction and they had not confirmed that they actually had water to the property. Turns out LA county was out of water. They didn't have any water rights. So I ended up hunting. Yeah I ended up hunting down all the way to the Nichols family who owns all of the water well 95% of the water rights of California. They then subleased those water rights on 99 year leases to a couple different groups and then you have to buy those rights from those guys to even get the water to be able to travel through all of the existing systems to get to your property.
- [35:24]
C
Never. Never a dull day.
- [35:26]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [35:26]
A
Three quarter of a million dollars later while they're in construction.
- [35:29]
C
Wow, that's wild.
- [35:32]
B
So.
- [35:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. Early on it's, it's one figure it's doing the that property due diligence and maybe you guys can talk about what you do when you're evaluating a property or once it's under. But, but making sure that you're, you're checking the zoning that you're checking that what you want to do has the ability to do even if you had to do a rezone or something, making sure that staff would even approve it or city council or planning commission and really just getting those fee schedules ahead of time, talking to the utility providers and making sure that one you can.
- [36:09]
B
Yeah, right. And point when we were looking at properties to analyze if you want to pursue it. We make sure that's one of the things on our checklist. There has to be a water and water and sewer tap nearby and if not because of the cost to extend it, we just won't, we'll pass on it because we do infill development. So luckily for us there should be water and utilities near, water and sewer nearby. But if there's not, we will just have to pass on it. So that's one of our criteria and rules. And the other ones are of course if we're wanting to build a cottage cluster we have to have the minimum lot size.
- [36:42]
A
Okay.
- [36:42]
B
One lot size. Making sure that there's parking on both sides of the street because our colleges don't have parking. And so we want to make sure there's street parking. So that's another important criteria for us. Us.
- [36:53]
C
Yeah. And even when we're doing our feasibility too, they're not necessarily deal breakers but they're just good to know from a cost perspective. Like we'll do a septic tank search, we'll do an oil tank search, we'll, we'll do all of these things. We'll check the soil, we'll get our geotech and out because all of these things will affect to some capacity our cost or the type of water system that we're going to have. It's dry well or storm water, whatever. So we do all of those testings before. They don't necessarily really make or break for us, but that is still part of our process. So we can at least get a closer number on our cost to build. Because either way, our ARV is relatively staying the same for the most part because we know what we're trying to build. So that's the number that's kind of moving for us. So just making sure that at the end of the day that number looks okay.
- [37:36]
B
Yeah, right? Yeah.
- [37:37]
C
Yeah.
- [37:38]
A
I like to say development is kind of like unpeeling an onion that you, you just kind of. You do it in the right order. So you're only spending money when you need to. And as you, you're playing detective and you're taking the layer off and you go, okay, we've hit this checkpoint. Everything still works. Hit pencils. All right, on to the next. All right, let's get this next round of information. And, and go.
- [37:56]
B
Right.
- [37:56]
A
And it, it does. It kills me when I see people come in at times and they're like, oh, well, I already did this and this and spent 50 grand. I'm like, but if you had just made that one phone call, you'd have known that this deal doesn't work or that it completely changes it. And instead of that, now you're doing townhomes. And, and yeah, to where. To where. That is where a mentor comes into Play. But I 1000% agree with you that there are, are many shifty people out there. So trust your gut.
- [38:24]
C
Yeah. And mentorship, honestly, like, we are such huge fans of it. If you have the right mentor because you want someone who will be able to answer your questions and guide you and has been in the industry. Like, for instance, I personally wouldn't look for a mentor who does commercial development if I primarily do infill in Portland. It just doesn't make sense for me. So we, when we're looking for mentors or if we are to mentor, we're trying to do it and be very strategic about it because we would want someone who understands the ins and out and misses. If we miss anything small, they'll catch it. Things like that.
- [38:55]
A
Yep. It's just like we had the ADU guy on in San Diego and it's like, yeah, I could help people with doing ADUs and give them the right question to ask, especially in San Diego. Done tons of projects. But I'm like, Brian's literally the guru. Like, he knows every little intimate. I'm like, go talk to him. Like, you're gonna skip so many. You're gonna fast forward through so many different things to where it's. It's like, okay, boom, boom, boom. Done.
- [39:17]
B
Yeah.
- [39:18]
A
Yeah. I was really lucky early on in my career to have a civil engineer who also led entitlements for California. And he just took me under his wing and I got to see how that dance went. And I was like, whoa. And just learned so much. And I had an architect who did the same. And then I had a contractor, and it was those key players are how I even survived and made it happen because I was doing it anytime, 30 deals a year. So from the time our real estate guys got the dirt under contract and did all the work, then I was coming in, doing the due diligence, meeting with the cities, doing pre apps, hiring the architects and engineers, doing entitlements, public hearings, permit and construction management in my early twenties.
- [39:55]
B
Ridiculous.
- [39:56]
A
Ridiculous. 60 to 80 hour weeks and tons of, tons of experience. But I knew that it would lead to so many more opportunities, which 2015 started. My company ended up doing tons of hydrogen development in California. So for all the hydrogen fueling stations between SoCal and San Francisco and all the supply chain infrastructure, like, we're literally creating stuff that doesn't exist. And I'm like, it's only because of what I did early on that created those opportunities to go, yeah, yeah, those are.
- [40:25]
C
Yeah, we're really big on. Honestly, like, every opportunity is a learning lesson. If it's not, if it's not an opportunity, it is a learning lesson. And we will always. We usually always have a very optimistic approach anyway. But even going off what you're saying, that something that I learned three years ago, I can implement today, or not implement, because I know. And it kind of like you. It snowballs and it becomes something so big. So for us, it's like, okay, if it's not gonna serve us and it's not good for us, that's totally fine. But we learn, we won't repeat it.
- [40:53]
A
Exactly. And I'm a big fan now of somebody asked me at a dinner, a business dinner on Friday. They're like, what would you tell your younger self? And I was like, I would honestly just tell her that no matter how terrible the situation is, everything truly is happening for us. It's not something bad happening to us. It's happening for us and it turns us into the People we are now to make us capable of doing, doing what we're going to do in the future. And so it's just like just embrace the fact that you are constantly going to have another mountain to climb. You're going to constantly be a problem solver overcoming all the obstacles. And I think when you stop pushing back on that, then it gets a little bit easier. It's still the same stuff. You just get better at dealing with the hard.
- [41:32]
B
Absolutely, I agree.
- [41:34]
A
So one of the other things I'm curious about with the cottage clusters and depending on what's around there, are you guys getting any pushback from say if it's surrounded by single family homes or something from those property owners or, and, or are you doing any neighborhood community involvement or is it just so widespread that it's like, no, we know we need housing. These are great. Like, let's not push back.
- [41:56]
C
Yeah.
- [41:56]
B
We try to talk with our neighbors just so they know what we're going to build. But this is after we bought the property. And of course you're going to have great neighbors and then you're also going to have neighbors that want to push back on development because development just, just the name development just scares people. But we try to like make sure that we have a good relationship first. And we try to come across as like, here's what we're building, here's what to expect, here's our phone number if anything comes up. Sometimes we regret doing that because then they do call. And with like, here's who we are, here's what we're doing. And we want to make sure that we're doing this in the most respectful and peaceful way as possible. And thankfully we have had the majority of great neighbors years. We're really blessed about that.
- [42:35]
C
Yeah. And honestly, like if you look at the. Because two of our projects actually were deciding to remove the home. And so for those projects it's. They are obsessed with the idea that we're going to have cottages there because it will make the community feel a lot better and yeah, a lot nicer.
- [42:52]
B
Almost an eyesore. And yeah, they're happy to see like, you know, this is actually going to help my home probably. I pray it's kind of too. So some people are really on board with it and it's great to have plan.
- [43:02]
C
Yeah. One neighbor I talked to, he actually is. Bought his home I think five years ago and he's directly in front of one of our projects and he is just elated. He is. So.
- [43:11]
B
Yes. Oh my God.
- [43:12]
C
He was like, I Cannot wait. What are you building? He's so excited because he bought his home at the time when there was a lot of eyesores on that street. And now things are slowly turning and basically the art project is kind of the last of it. So. And it's right next to a very beautiful park. And so he's just so excited to see and everyone we've talked to has given us honestly, really great feedback because what we're building is better than what was there before. So if anything, not only will it look beautiful, but like CL said, it'll help with their value too. Yeah.
- [43:43]
A
Yep, exactly. So as you guys are going through the different things and you, you shared some of your obstacles. What, what do you use? Maybe something that, that you each use to just stay motivated when you, when you do have it. Because we know we have the days where nothing is going right and you have other days where it's like everything you touched turned to gold. So on the days where nothing is going right, what do you use to kind of get yourself out of the funk and, and just motivate you to go, okay, we're just keep swimming.
- [44:09]
B
Yeah.
- [44:09]
A
Yeah.
- [44:09]
B
You know, it's. You brought up a good point. Because we're highly motivated because we love what we do. But then the bad days, like, how do we motivate ourselves for the bad days? I think just being able to call each other and be like, girl, dude, this what happened, like, you know, that really helps is to be able to like let it out with each other. And then also just like we go outside, like we have to go outside and be pace and walk and get some fresh air. And then we come back like, all right, we can do this. We're really good problem solvers. Like I mentioned before, I was a consultant, so all I did was solve my clients problems. That's all I did. That's all I know how to do. So it's in my nature. It comes across very easy for me and so I'm really blessed that I had that experience prior, but really just going outside, get fresh air, talk with each other, event, you know, I don't think we've ever cried yet.
- [44:52]
C
No, not yet.
- [44:52]
B
Knock on wood. We've had those days where dumb. Hopefully not anytime soon, but when we have those moments, it's just like having each other is what, is what we need like to be. Because our parent, our parents, our partners, if we tell them, they're, they listen. But then they're like, okay. Like they don't get it right. And like we get Each other. Like our loans at risk are on the loan. So we just are able to call each other and then we get back to work and we solve it. Like we are both really good problem, honestly.
- [45:23]
C
And also going off that too. Is that what's nice, is that even with all of the problems that come, if I was doing it alone or if K was doing it alone, like, oh my God, okay, what do I do? What do I do? Okay, these are my options. Doing it together, honestly, like, more times than not, we just laugh.
- [45:37]
B
Yeah, we just laugh.
- [45:38]
C
Okay. Yeah, let's call whoever we need to call, like, just a lot more light hearted. And I think that that's so important for the dynamic of our partnership, but also for our life. And like, thankfully we have very supportive partners too who are. It's like we're rooting for you, we support you and then we just go on our merry way. We do our thing. And it's just really nice because even like more times than not when we're in a stressful situation, CL's like, let me go on a walk. And every time she'll text me, I'm like, hey, I'm on a walk. But I came up with this idea
- [46:05]
B
or whatever, walk, and I'll send her a voice. I'm like, okay, here's how we can solve this. So that honestly really helps. Just walking, you know, being in nature,
- [46:14]
C
it just does something.
- [46:18]
A
I'm, I'm 100% with you when, when something comes up like that, like, it doesn't matter. I will. Whether it's a hike, a walk, cycling, getting out, paddle boarding, whatever it is, it's like I need the distractions, I need the technology to go away and I need to process and I need to think. And you're right. It's all of a sudden you'll be like, yep, what about this angle? And then, oh, guys, if we do blah, blah.
- [46:39]
B
Yeah, okay, helps.
- [46:41]
C
It helps.
- [46:41]
B
We get so many people that meet, want to meet with us and chat with us. And so like they see the glitz and the glamour on the Instagram. It's like the highlight reels of what a development is. And then it's like behind the scenes, if you're not a problem solver, naturally relief, this honestly might not be a good fit for you. And they don't know that. They just want to, you know, see, oh my God, I'm going to build a house. You know, but it's this much more than just building a house. It's. You're truly an adult babysitter. You are everyone's problem solver. And if you don't have that in you, to be able to easily solve a problem and bounce back to your life, this is not for you. Like, I tell people, I see people all the time, and I'm like, I don't think this is for you. And I don't mean that in a harsh way, but just, like, the reality is this is not an easy job. Like, sometimes we make it look easy and we can talk about it, we can laugh about it, but, like, behind the scenes, like, this is hard work. There's no luck here. Right. Like, development is not pure luck. It's. It's analyzing and it's solving problems. And if you don't have that in you, this is not for you.
- [47:37]
A
100% that. Could not agree more. I, I jokingly say, I have a PhD in MIH. Make it happen. Yeah, exactly. There is no other. There's no other solution. It's just, go make it happen.
- [47:50]
B
Right. Right. What else can you do? No. Show must go on. Yeah, exactly. Right.
- [47:56]
A
I, I love your partnership. It's. I, I just landed on a really cool project in southwest Florida where we're building a sports and wellness destination, and my two partners the same way. Your dynamic is very similar to ours to where, yeah, stuff's gonna blow up. And, like, I've got a whole chat chain blowing up right now. But then I just saw some laughs, so I'm like, all right, cool, we figured it out. But being able to have someone who's in the weeds with you, like, that's
- [48:18]
B
where people like, oh, well, don't partner
- [48:20]
A
with friends or don't partner at all because. And hold it to yourself. And I'm like, well, why am I going to make a stranger rich? And second of all, like, I, I want that camaraderie. I want that, that partnership. I want us to be close and having fun and laughing and also knowing that there's going to be hard times where you're going to hit it and you're, you're going to be like, oh, we need to have hard conversations together. And being able to step into that, in doing that and going, hey, I know this is a tough conversation now, but to between us, but we're going to grow from this and we're going to be better off in the long run as people, as business partners, as, as everything. And as long as you're not unwilling to have the tough conversations and to know that, hey, we're in this together.
- [48:54]
B
Like, being in it together is A really key point because the problems that come across similar to like a marriage. Right. Like, the problems, it's not you versus me. It's a week.
- [49:04]
A
Yeah.
- [49:04]
B
The problem is, for us, it's not. Even if the email is directed towards me, we see it as of us.
- [49:09]
A
Yes.
- [49:10]
B
So I think having that strong union in a partnership is really what's key. And if you don't have that, you're eventually probably going to split up because it's, it's going to be like, well, that's a you thing. You should do that. No, it's. Everything is a week. Yeah.
- [49:23]
C
And like I said earlier too, is that the, the foundation is wonderful. It's solid. We have the trust, we have the love and respect. So, like, whether it's an outward thing or an internal thing, we're always talking about it. And we always know that at the end of the day, day, I chose you and I choose you to be my business partner and vice versa. And honestly, like, I was thinking about this the other day, and I, I, I love my friends so much, but honestly, I don't. I wouldn't do that partnership with my friends. But, you know, I feel like we have similar work ethic the way that we think and the way that we, we do business. It's just that it's so aligned that I'm like, no, literally, this is a match made in heaven. I'm so happy because there's so many people that I love and would spend time with. But it was it necessarily translate in business.
- [50:05]
A
Do business.
- [50:06]
B
Yes, totally. Really? Left and right brain. Especially when there's a conflict. And let's say I'm a little bit more heated that day. Like, I'll just let Amira do it. Like, Amir will come in and she'll be the sweet person because I'm more of like a fiery person, if you can tell. So sometimes I'm like, I gotta just sit back and let my girlfriend. I handle it. It's gonna make it worse.
- [50:25]
A
I'm gonna burn the house down if I handle it.
- [50:29]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And I'll never.
- [50:30]
A
She's.
- [50:31]
B
She's got to tap in for this one. I got to tap out and I'll come back in for other things, but for like, conflict with neighbors especially, I have to tap out. Yeah, it works. It works really well. Yeah.
- [50:42]
C
Yeah.
- [50:43]
A
That's awesome. So glad you two found each other because clearly it works. And that is the right type of, of business partner and friendship and. Awesome.
- [50:50]
B
Sweet.
- [50:51]
A
So. So you've got your three projects. You guys are Working on what is the future. Let's fast forward five, ten years down the line. Now that you know you can be a developer, you are doing, you've got all the things in place. What does five, 10 years down the line look like?
- [51:03]
B
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think our goal is we both want to do like landscape hotels, like doing different. We love cottages, we love residential development, but we want to go more into landscape retreats, hotels, health and wellness spaces. So we, we don't want to like get too ahead of ourselves. So we want to do what's working right now and duplicate it and do that again and again and again. But our long term goal is to do more landscape and hotels.
- [51:31]
C
Yeah.
- [51:32]
B
And stuff like that.
- [51:32]
C
And it's nice too because once you're at least like, I'm comparing it to like my real, my experience being a licensed agent where when someone, a problem comes up or a form needs to be filled or whatever, once you have so much experience, it's so easy, you're just like, okay, do this. It's, it's, there's no, the learning curve isn't there as much where like with cottages we're learning, we're growing and so once we have that stability where things can flow, our systems are in place, we have the people that we like working with and we can have that run. And then we chase things like landscape hotels or these exciting, fun passion projects that, that would be honestly like ideal.
- [52:07]
B
Yeah. If it's not broken, don't fix it. That's what we're, that's our motto. Right. So we want to do what solid
- [52:13]
A
going, it's going like clockwork. Put a team in place and they go, okay, let's try this new.
- [52:17]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And the STC waivers in Portland is only for maybe about two more years. So we want to make sure we, we use that full advantage and then, you know, you know, go somewhere else.
- [52:28]
A
So yeah, and I, I'm in, personally, I'm, I'm in both of those spaces with the, the health and wellness. And we're in the process of doing a, a hotel purchase that is very similar in the sense of creating that wellness destination and gathering spot. But I think experiential based places are truly going to be at with AI, with technology, just where our world's evolving to like we want to meet in person, we want to have those, but it's gotta be done right. It, it can't just be, oh well, we have a, a cryo and a sauna and so we're, we're wellness. Like, no, there has to. But you guys are clearly already showing that with your cottage communities to where all of that flows in. All of that builds on the story that you'll tell future investors as the capital raises get bigger, as the, the lenders go. And so all of that just builds on itself, which is incredible. So I, I'm personally stoked to watch you guys continue to go because it's very clear you, you're gonna do some really, really amazing things. And I'm just like, this is awesome.
- [53:26]
B
We're excited. We're really excited for the future, honestly. And I, I honestly want to add that another thing that I'm passionate about is moving to Africa as a new market for me. So I want to do some development projects there as well. So. And that's something that I probably will do in the next year or two. And so it's really exciting to take what I'm learning here and go to an area that I'm passionate on and start something there as well. And yeah, I think it's just fun to be able to, to like, take your skills and transfer it, especially in an economy where your money goes further along and then it will benefit so many people around, around you. So I'm really passionate about going to Africa. Yeah, I love that.
- [54:03]
A
And that's exactly like development because there are larger dollar amounts that come with it and the more that you're. And you're exposed to so much more of how the world actually works by doing that that it allows you to then go, hey, I am going to go to Africa. I am going to do that. Like, was that on your bingo card a couple of years ago?
- [54:18]
B
No. Didn't think it was possible.
- [54:20]
C
Do anything.
- [54:20]
B
I can build on the mood.
- [54:23]
A
Yeah, exactly. I freaking love this. Well, you, you laters are fabulous. I love this. Where can people follow along, support, just kind of see what's happening?
- [54:32]
B
Yeah, yeah. So you can follow us on all platforms. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube. Amica development. And then also my personal Instagram for our business is Kado Develops.
- [54:43]
C
Yes. And then my personal one is Amira Fatum.
- [54:46]
A
We will, we'll make sure that's included in the show notes and get that out there. You, you ladies are incredible. Everyone, like follow, share like because you're, you're the type of people who are going to change the stigma on developers being the big, bad, greedy ones and it's going to help people understand that. No, no, no. There are really good ones out there and you guys are are leading the way.
- [55:07]
B
So thank you.
- [55:08]
A
Thanks for coming on. Thanks for everything you guys are doing to be here.
- [55:11]
B
Yeah. Appreciate it. It's great talking with you. Thank you so much.
- [55:14]
C
Much.
- [55:14]
A
Awesome. And for those of you listening, if you could do us a huge favor and like, subscribe and share these episodes and and leave a five star review because these are the ways that we can get more of these awesome stories out there so we can go transform our communities in a positive way. So thank you for listening and we'll see you next time. Thank you.
- [55:32]
B
Bye.