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- [00:00]
A
This is the Local Real Estate Developer Podcast, where we share the stories of locals across the country who took that empty lot or that old building and turned it into something awesome that their community needs. I'm Christy Candle, and I've been a real estate developer my entire career. My co host, Rafael is a commercial broker, and together we're sharing the stories of locals making a huge impact on their communities. And what we've learned is you don't need millions in the bank or decades of experience to get started. You just need the confidence, tools, and the right people around you. This podcast is your chance to gain the confidence to get in the game. Because real estate development isn't just for the insiders anymore. It's for people like you too.
- [00:41]
B
Welcome to the Local Real Estate Developer Podcast. I'm your co host, Rafael Collasso. I'm a commercial broker, investor, and developer located here in Louisville, Kentucky. And I'm excited to be here with my co host, Christy Candle. Always great to see you.
- [00:53]
A
Hey, good to see you. Yeah, I'm Christy Candle. I'm a real estate developer investor, and I teach locals how to become developers in their community. And today I am starting to so excited for our guest. She is one one of my first mentors that I had in the industry. So it's awesome to see this come full circle. I have a tremendous amount of respect for her, and I can't wait for you guys to hear her story. So, Dani Gallagher, welcome to the show. Hi.
- [01:16]
C
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. It's kind of fun. It's been a little while since we've been able to connect, so it's. It's great to catch up.
- [01:25]
A
Exactly. So I know background on you, but why don't we start by just giving the audience a little bit of background on who you are, where you're at, and. And kind of what your. What your role was and is in development.
- [01:38]
C
Sure. So I started in on the architecture side and went to school for architecture. Kind of came up through an actual, you know, design firm. But I've been in the retail space pretty much my entire career. I'm a little. Little odds and different pieces where I kind of stepped down a bit, but for the most part, it was within retail. And then about, gosh, about 20, 25 years ago, I had an opportunity to join a national company on the retail side. And so I kind of signed up as a project manager and had sort of had my eyes open to a whole different concept of, like, what it is that we were Doing it wasn't just about the design component of it, but taking it all the way through the process. And so for the next, for the last 20 some years, I've really just spent it on the, on the national side, on the national retail side. So I worked for, I started with a little bit of time with Office Depot and then I switched over to CVS Health. At the time it was CVS Pharmacy and we hadn't yet combined with all the other entities and components that CVS eventually did, but grew up through that, so held multiple different positions over the last 18 years at that organization. And, and now as of the first of the year, I actually took a new position. So I'm with seven multisite now and as I'm a senior vice president over 2 of what they call their sectors. And so I'm, I'm really focused in on pharma and healthcare, which kind of makes sense based on the last 18 years, but then also on some grocery and retail. And so those two areas are keeping me busy. So I'm taking everything that I did for one national retailer and now I get to do it for multiple, across, across the nation. So it's pretty, it's pretty interesting. I've, I've definitely done the path of like building on your career, so every little piece becomes a part of the foundation. And, and it's amazing what you kind of reach back into that bag and say, okay, I, I actually have some experience with that, or I can do that or, you know, I've seen that I, I can get behind it. So, so yeah, that's my, that's kind of my journey right now.
- [03:51]
B
Amazing. So, you know, regarding your experience at the national level for a large pharmacy slash retailer, kind of curious about what your thoughts are just on the evolution of that industry because, you know, you mentioned 18 years at CVS. How did you see it evolve over time and maybe talk a little bit about, you know, the initial, you know, phases of your career and how it, how it's changed over time.
- [04:16]
C
Yeah, sure. When I joined cvs, I started as a construction manager and so I had a region, I was in the Florida market, had a region, it was expanding. So we had a preferred developer. We actually had three preferred developers at the time in the Florida market. And we were just, we were just growing and a lot of it was organic growth. We had, we had done a huge acquisition and CVS was, is a company that acquires, so they grow not only organically, but then also through acquisition to really add to the fleet. So we were as a retailer, as a store based pharmacy, we were growing. We had just bought the Eckard's stores in the Florida market. But then we were also growing pretty rapidly with new development, with new areas that we were moving into. And Florida still remains a strong market for CVS today, even for growth purposes. The interesting part is when you reach a certain point as a national retailer with a certain offering, you really have to always be reassessing your footprint and ensuring that you're in the right markets and you know, the markets and the demographics change as the course of history changes. And so, so we were always sort of, you know, on top of that. But so I started construction and I had this opportunity to, through acquisitions, I had this opportunity to work out west. So CVS took me to California for a while and then we did special projects in New York. And so I started playing much more on the national level. And that provided me some opportunity for growth internal to the company. So eventually I became a regional director for construction and then that grew into a different director level role, senior director role. And then eventually I became a vice president. As a vice president of construction, I had multiple teams spread across the country. So those director roles that I had had previously then reported into me and then the project managers under them and so on. So we built an internal team and then we had external resources that would help us across the national footprint. And so through the course of my career, we spent a lot of time really just on the retail side sector, really focusing in. On are we in those right demographic, you know, in those right markets? Has a demographic changed? We were, you know, we had footprint where we had chosen the site. We had some that we had acquired. So we were looking at, you know, the term left on those locations. You know, were we still, were we still in the right point at, you know, main on main intersection or did we have to do things like consolidate locations into one to allow us to, you know, expand or grow into a different direction at as the geography was sort of moving on us, so we had new markets that we were moving into. During the course of my 18 years, CVS also acquired several different organizations, including Aetna. So we had the insurance business coming in and then what was also happening sort of in the last, I don't know, six or seven, eight years of my career there was. I was able to eventually become the leader for our design, so our programming and our design. And that allowed me to become much more of sort of an end to end type. So I had my real estate partner who would, you know, source deals? They'd work with our development teams, they'd identify locations either for new or for acquisition and then our teams would come in and pick it up and we'd go from programming through design efforts, do all the entitlement piece right, work with the developers as we got things ready and then our construction teams would pick it up on the back end. So it gave me a little bit longer stretch for my career for what I was doing. But it also, you know, it tied things together a little bit better and actually is helped with the role that I'm playing now is I work for other, other organizations and help them solve for various different opportunities that they have when they're looking at national rollouts or national programs that they have to, to execute. So I don't know. That was a long, long winded answer. But I kind of climbed the ladder at cvs and as I did, I had this opportunity to take on more and more and get that, you know, that national perspective of just how we deal with all those components.
- [08:34]
B
You're right. And it is a nuanced thing. And to your point, I think for the general layman who's just driving down the street like they may or may not understand the nuance that goes into these decisions and how a lot of these decisions are made over many, many months, if not years. So it's beneficial that you provided that as insight. One thing I'm curious about which. Go ahead, Christy.
- [08:56]
A
Sorry, I was just going to say with that, we know that development takes years to get done and you're acquiring, you're also taking information from operations. I know we had floor plans change all the time. What, what did that look like from your guys perspective? When you're taking feedback from operations, you're switching things. You've, you've got maybe new acquisitions that are coming in and new locations. Maybe you're consolidating how flow or go internally because then that had to be relayed to, to us, the developers to go, okay, we're, we're mid entitlements or we're mid permitting or we have these land contracts. So maybe just more from your perspective, because I always say development is juggling like 10,000 balls and eventually you put it all in. But there's a lot that happens in between.
- [09:35]
C
Yeah, yeah. I would tell you that being a national retailer, one of the things that you think about is like, okay, it's a prototype, right. So you have this great prototype and you're going to repeat the same thing over and over. And over again. And I'm not entirely sure that there's a lot of organizations that have been successful around that. Maybe Walmart early in the days, because it did. Everyone did kind of look the same, maybe some of the others. There's some grocers that lay things out. We used to laugh because we, you know, we had no, we had 10,000 stores at one point, 11,000 maybe, and we probably had 9,000 prototypes. Like, I mean it's just, it was different, right? So it's, you pick up the prototypes of the ones you've acquired. You pick up, you know, then there's the, there's the one offs that you go into the center and there's, you controls the jurisdiction, you know, wants certain things, certain ways. And so it changes the building. You got a streetscape. So that throws things off. You can't put the drive through where you want it. Like, I mean it just goes on and on. So it was always a juggle. It was always a juggle. It always is. I mean, I'm still doing it today. It's kind of interesting because I think the very best individuals that work in that space recognize that their, their role is more about how do they influence those various different entities that are a part of the conversation. Whether it's the operator who's trying to tell you like no, that's, that can't work that way. Right. Or the jurisdiction who's setting, you know, controls on, on whatever it might be, or the landlord who's, you know, he's got a vision and they want it a certain way or she thinks they're going to come in and we're going to, we're going to lease it out. And you're one of multiple, right? So they're trying to juggle that. It's. Yeah, it's a lot of different components all coming in. And so the role that we play often is just how do you influence it into this space so that you end up with, you know, this asset that, that eventually is key to the community or you know, fits all of these components or you know, whatever the optimal piece was. We, we would always try to draw a line in the sand. Like, okay, pencils down.
- [11:36]
A
Right.
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C
If it's in development and it looks like this. And we always were like, so, okay, this time we're all, we're pencils down. We're not going to change anything. And then sure enough, like somebody would convince like, oh, we, we really just need to incorporate this one new thing.
- [11:50]
A
We'd be like, okay, so I, I Mean, you just basically you. This, that's the thing we talk about all the time with local developers is that it's relationships. That's what it comes down to. When you are juggling so many stakeholders that have so many different agendas and end games. It comes down to relationships. And the more that you can build trust with them, the more that when you need to come in and say, hey, city, we can't do this, or hey, landlord, I hear you. But at this point, like, this is, this is what it is. Know that we are doing the best we can.
- [12:19]
B
It.
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A
It truly just comes down to relationships.
- [12:21]
C
It does. It absolutely does. We used to, we used to have a lot of different conversations around, you know, who, who to step. Like when you used your developer. Like, you know, our developers are our national developers at CVS side and a lot of, a lot of other retailers. You're just an extension of the team, right? And so oftentimes you're acting on our behalf from the national perspective, corporate looks at you and says, okay, you know, I'm, you're our extension to go get this done. And at the, so we're, we're relying on your relationships, truly.
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A
Right.
- [12:54]
C
As you're, as you're developing for us and then also ours to come in and say, we've got this pull behind us. But a lot, you know, a lot of times there's, there's just hard and fast rules like, you know, this is, this is the way it is. So. But the relationships go a long way in making things happen, for sure.
- [13:11]
B
So out of curiosity, just as a layman with some of these preferred developers that you're working with, are they operating kind of on projects all across the country? And if so, how are they able to leverage some of those relationships at a local level? Because we talk about on the podcast all the time the, you know, the risk associated with just getting proper entitlements or getting the right people and stakeholders on board to make sure that the project can get to completion. I'm just kind of curious as to how you guys are navigating those waters and especially because you guys are all over the country, so maybe there's, you know, additional insight you all can.
- [13:49]
C
Additional insights you could share most of the time. And I, I mean, I see this today with multiple different national retailers just because I have this opportunity to work with multiple. But I'll, I'll go back to the CVS days as well. It helps to regionalize your teams. And so because you, you do gain a subject matter expertise in that region or that geography. So my Calif. Team would look a little bit different than my New York City team and definitely different than my South Florida team. Right. Like, and so they're all navigating kind of a different situation each time. So it helps that you have, you have people in or local to those geographies or that can get there fairly easy. We did the same with our development side. And so it wouldn't be uncommon to take a national developer and have them have multiple geographies, but if they did, they had more localized teams to those geographies. Right. So, and then other times we would say, okay, you know, this is our, this is our development company and they are focused on the Texas market. And then, you know, they would have teams in Texas, they would be focused on, you know, our development in Houston and Dallas and San Antonio, whatever it might be. Right. So we, we'd kind of point them in the direction for the growth and then they'd have those teams and they'd be working that local or, you know, local level for us. A lot of times. And again, it goes back to those relationships. A lot of times we would have the developers work together to move into new markets. So if we could leverage a relationship or if a third party development team had a location that we wanted, we were using our brokerage system to be able to negotiate with them in order to secure it. And every deal is a little different. Grill and leases versus, you know, build a suit versus, you know, you can go on and on. Right.
- [15:37]
A
So I just started laughing because I'm like, yeah, there's like rules of thumb, but there's always a caveat and always this something like, but if this. Yeah, I know when I, when I started my company and like, especially when we had the hydrogen stuff rolling out and my team would come in and they're like, christy, what's, what's this? And I'm like, well, it's this, but if this happens, then this, that and the other. And if it's this, then this, that and the other. And they're like, can you just give me an answer? I'm like, that is the answer. Like, you just have to be a professional problem solver and understand that everything is going to change and you just get to roll with it and figure it out.
- [16:09]
C
Yeah. Yeah, we were so I was, I was in the, I was in a location yesterday. I was doing site rides yesterday and we were talking about how great it is to standardize stuff. And when you work at a, you know, with smaller organizations, sometimes they're just, they don't have the ability, they don't have the bandwidth to really get to like a prototype. And I, I did start laughing. I was like, even the big guys, you know, they get it, they got a standard and they roll it out and they give you a playbook. And at the end of the day, they change eight things in that playbook based on whatever it is that they see. So it happens. It's always like, yes, you're a problem solver. Like, let me get in there and figure out like, how we're going to get this done. So, yeah, and you do it times, however many you're. You're getting at. Right. The, the big groups just play at a bigger level and the smaller groups just play at a smaller. Like it's the same, it's the same conversation. There really is.
- [17:03]
A
Yeah. They don't magically have something else or it's. It's just, it is the same thing.
- [17:08]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [17:10]
A
So as we were setting up teams, what I found interesting when I came in was I was like, wait, you have a real estate manager? We have a real estate manager. You have a development manager? We have one. You have a construction. We have one. And then even getting into systems and processes, we had our own internal ones. But then you guys had a system that got rolled out at one point as well that a lot of the national tenants ended up using. Maybe can you speak a little bit to how that that structure was, is set up with national tenants and, and the thinking behind that. Because sometimes you could think, okay, well that's double work. But at the same time, we don't know what's happening internally. And there's lots of conversations that you guys would have and same, like you weren't in every single city meeting or every single property owner meeting.
- [17:50]
C
Yeah. You really do have to think of the teams as a, as an extension of each other. It's the. What. It's, it's kind of what I found to work the best. And it actually creates great teams because you are kind of working as an extension regardless, like whose name is on it. Right. So I would tell you, when I first, when I first came in, when I first switched over from architecture, from really being on the services side into playing at the corporate level. One of the things that I struggled with was that like multiple. The duplicity of the roles. Right. So why, if I'm a construction manager in Europe, why do we both have to go to this site? But what I, what I eventually understood pretty quickly is that we're both coming at it with different information, and we're both. The objective is to get it built or, you know, to get to whatever point. However, we are both tasked with different things along the way that we have to partner to get it there together. I think when national groups look at it that way, where they have that development arm, it. It increases the breadth of their reach. Right? And some choose to bring it internal, some choose to not duplicate all the roles, some outsource individuals. And. And there's a lot of different ways to solve for how that team is built or that team structure is there. But when you, like, look, when you're trying to. When you're trying to roll out 400 new locations a year, you've got to. You've got to be resourceful on how you build that team because you'll just, you know, you'll crater the. The little team that you have internal or, you know, whatever it might look up to. So I am, I. And the role that I had when I was, you know, as VP at at cvs, the one thing that was always a challenge was how what levers do I have to flex up or not? So, you know, can I pull in the developers, can I pull in the consultants to be extensions in the team, which thereby I could move faster, I could move into different jurisdictions, I could segment alpha piece. And then the other component was always having that far, being able to look far enough ahead to say, you know, I've got to have 20 more locations ready to go on a remodel program, but I've got to keep the team that's doing new development separate because I need them focused. I can't get them, you know, caught off guard with something else. So you're kind of running different groups along the way. And, you know, our. Our development piece of it was. Was, you know, I think at the end I was. I was at cvs, I was getting to the point where I was like, gosh, some of these deals have been around as long as I have. Right. They take a long time to get done. And so, so that was always fun too, because you're like, you know, you finally see, I've worked on this as a project manager.
- [20:26]
B
So.
- [20:29]
C
Yeah.
- [20:30]
A
Anyway. Hey, can we chat for a second? Since you're listening to this podcast, you're already thinking like a developer. You see the potential in your community and you're ready to do more than just watch from the sidelines. That's exactly why we created the Local Developer Vault. It's a free resource full of tools Templates and trainings to help you take action. And here's the best part. When you sign up, you'll also get access to our local real estate developer community. It's full of people just like you who are making real things happen in their neighborhoods. So don't just listen to the stories. Become the next one that we spotlight on our show. Click the link in the show notes to unlock the vault and join our movement.
- [21:07]
B
Well, and out of curiosity, we're talking about team structures. How do you guys identify strategic partners to partner with? Because I feel like that's in and of itself is a challenge, especially when you're entering new markets and you're trying to determine whether these individuals can actually get you to the finish line. So if you could elaborate a little bit on that thought process and obviously not just with cvs because obviously you're working with other groups at this point as well. So I'm kind of curious if there's any similarities between the two.
- [21:35]
C
Yeah, so at cvs, I think, you know, the, I would say the development partners were, were established, you know, back in, in CVS's heyday of growth. Right. So when they were trying to roll out 400 new sites, they had 20 some partners across the country and they were all relationship driven. As things refined, those, those teams that stayed on were really the ones that had like the, you know, the best, the, the, I'd say the best support for CVS within those, those geographic markets and it. And where we were going, right. We were across the country and then we, you know, we scaled back from a national footprint standpoint to say, okay, less organic growth. Let's move into really taking care of the fleet. Right. Because at some point you got 10,000 stores. You don't, you don't necessarily need to grow at 400 now. You need of what you have, you need to reevaluate. And so you're using those partners, those relationships, and they carry over time like anything else. You see people, you know, split off and then those relationships go with a new organization or new. So, so it evolved, but it's, it's really, it's back to those relationships.
- [22:48]
A
Yeah. On the developer side, I would say we like for us to remain a preferred developer. For us to remain, we needed to go out and build those deeper relationships with the best architects, the best engineers, the people that we didn't have to babysit because if we were babysitting, we wouldn't be able to deliver as top high quality of service. So it was, it behooved Us to make sure we had the best teams in the market. And if somebody was on the team that was not an A player, it was like, you gotta be cut fast because that was a reflection of us, on our reputation.
- [23:18]
C
Yeah, it's. Well. And that's it, right? I mean, you're, you're constantly looking to. Again, you're, you're salt. You're problem solvers, right? And so as you're pulling all these pieces together, I mean, just think about the entitlement process, right? You've got so many layers that you have to go through, and you're, You're. You're constantly trying to solve so that you get, you know, you get to your permit standpoint and you can get this thing under construction. And I think about that all the time. Like, you're. They're, they're looking to make sure they have the best vendors. Am I pulling? Do I have somebody who has capacity? Can they, you know, can they be flexible? Because my retailer is changing their mind 38 times, right? And so you guys, they're gonna throw
- [23:54]
A
a temper tantrum when we change the prototype for the seventh time. Like, nobody's got time for that. We need to suck it up and go, we knew this was coming. Let's make a change. Let's go.
- [24:04]
C
Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. It's. So I would tell you from the, the national side, it. It really is kind of getting in, you know, and there's new ones. I'm not saying there's never new ones that are introduced into it, but there's usually a catalyst that allows for somebody to be introduced into programs. You know, there's a new relationship built. There's a new person in play. There's a new something that's. That's caused it to, you know, somebody has screwed up and they're out, right? And so that opens up the opportunity for somebody else to step in. Right place, right time. A lot of. A lot of the time. And my role today, it's. It's kind of interesting only because now I am. Now I am playing. I'm back on the services side. I'm playing a different role as I come in. And so I'm working with brands like, like Amazon and Walmart and, you know, grocers sprouts and Kroger and. Right? So as you think about, like, my role today is I'm solving that team dynamic for those organizations. So I've become that resource to say, how do I flex up? How do I bring. How do I bring this in so that my teams can supplement, and then I can, I can shift. But, you know, I can step in when you need me, and I can shift back when you don't need me. What I've. What I've kind of figured out is all of those. All of those big groups, right. All of those big names have all of the same problems. Like, nobody has figured it out. Like, we are literally all still dealing with the same thing. We might have better processes or systems, some might have, you know, key talent that are really playing a specific role in a market. But at the end of the day, it's, you know, it's still. You get back to the basics of, I still got to get this thing done. I still got to solve these problems. I still got to work through all these components, and, you know, the process is still there. So I go back to. I'm pulling on my relationships. I'm like, you know what? I got a great sign vendor.
- [25:52]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [25:53]
C
Let me, you know, let me, Let me pull in who I know. Like, you know, I. I've. These guys, these. These merchandisers, they worked wonders for me. Like, let's pull them in. They can move through and get, you know, get us through this, this inspection period. So you, you definitely pull back all your resources in, in each. In each role you play.
- [26:11]
A
Yeah. And the, the thing that's super interesting is, and I'm really glad someone told me earlier, no, I was not into burning bridges. But also at the same time, they're like, be careful because right now, like, I started as a. I jokingly say the redheaded stepchild in the sign company, but then you become the developer, so you're closer to being the. One of the top dogs. And then they're like, that dynamic is going to shift throughout your career. One day you're hiring people, the next day you're asking for a job. And if you were a jerk in one position. Yeah. The industry is very small.
- [26:39]
C
Yes, yes.
- [26:41]
A
And we've seen that play across a couple different national tenants I've worked with where I'm like. And karma.
- [26:46]
C
Yeah, you're getting that. Yeah. But vice versa, I feel like come back around on a lot of things.
- [26:54]
A
Yes, yes. And on the flip side, it's like when you have delivered and you stepped up and been a players, that then also works. And I spent a lot, once I got to California, before I started my company on family dollar stuff. And so the different architects and engineer teams and land use attorneys and people that I met along the way when I started my company that was so amazing for me to then be able to go up and I would work with people and be able to pull them in. I'm like, oh no, I have the ringer for this market. And then it made me look like a superstar. But also we had the, a team that knew how to work together because your architect and engineer and contractors all need to play nice in the sandbox. And if you already know people's dynamics and like, oh, this person works this way, but I figured out how to work with them. Like, it just makes the juggling of 10,000 balls easier.
- [27:35]
C
Yeah, no, it really does. And, and I'll, I'll go back to one of my favorite stories and, and I, I know you probably know this, but when I, when I was on the architecture side, my two biggest clients were, go figure, Office Depot and cvs. And so when I switched over and joined Office Depot, I worked for and with a gentleman who eventually came to work for me at CVS as, as, as lead on our architecture engineering side. And so that dynamic of like all three, of all three of my organizations and like how, you know, people kind of switch around has come back multiple times. Like you, you know, we used to say, like, just don't ever burn that bridge, right? Like, you just, you just never know. You might, you, it might come back, you know, you might have to cross it again at some point. So it's always, it's always interesting. But to your point, building the team, I think it's been, it has been one of the, the best things that I've ever learned is that is you put together people with different skill sets and different personalities and, and you know, different strengths and weaknesses or opportunities or however you look at it, like you really built a more well round if you get that diversity there because then you've got each other, you're leaning into each other on something that look, I know you can do that better than I can and you know, at the end we're all going to look good when, when that team is successful. So it's one of my favorite things about what I do now, more so than even just what the outcome is. And I still love seeing the finished product, I still love walking the job sites, but I love developing the teams that, and the people that get those things done.
- [29:17]
B
That's amazing. No, I mean, it's fascinating to hear the perspective from someone who has that level of experience with some of these nationals because again, as a local developer, you know, most of the projects we do are local to Here, and they're mostly adaptive reuse projects. And we're having the same type of conversations and building our vendor list and, you know, having them navigate the waters of getting entitlements and. And dealing with, or coordinating with different subcontractors to ensure things are getting done properly. And there's always going to be snags that occur and you kind of have to navigate those waters. So it's interesting. Sometimes I think there's a lot of people out there that think, well, you've got these national companies and everything seems so streamlined, everything seems so organized. But in reality, it's a people business and we're constantly having to navigate the same challenges. So I think, if anything, it's beneficial for the listeners to hear that. That, you know, even if they're facing challenges in their own projects, that, you know, this is not a unique.
- [30:14]
C
Yeah, it's. It's very true. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm. It doesn't. I'll go back to. It doesn't matter how big the project is or how big the tenant is. You know, it's the same. It's. You're dealing with the same steps and the same. And sometimes I'll just, I'll go even on the other side of that. Sometimes the net from a national level or from a corporate level, we put more things in the way to getting things done right. And so it's good until it becomes difficult. And then you, like, you gotta peel it back and say, okay, let's get back to the fundamental part of, like, what do we want to get done here? I think about adaptive reuse. It's one of, you know, I love those projects. They're super creative. You gotta be in there thinking outside the box. You've got a space that's really unique to that location. You're not going to find that repeated across the country 20 times. And you always end up with like, you know, a phenomenal project. But. But there's a lot of steps and you throw that at a national retailer and you got some that'll do really well and you got others that, you know, 20 years later, you're still working on that project. You're like, come on, guys. So. But those are, you know, those are the ones that, you know, they're fun.
- [31:23]
B
Well, and it's also, too, which is another layer of complexity when it comes to the nationals is that you have the. So many different segments within the organization. So you have the operations team that, you know, granted, they should try to consider what's going on the construction side. But oftentimes it's like you talk about changing a floor plan last second. So it could be this team has decided, well, this will be the most efficient or the better way to approach the store layout because that's going to increase sales and that's great. But then maybe you're already in the midst of getting everything done on the construction side and now you throw a curve ball at your team. And sometimes I'm sure there was some frustration where it's like, oh, again, we literally just went over this a couple weeks ago or a couple months ago, and now it's another thing we have to modify. And as you know, with construction, sometimes it's not as easy as just flipping the switch. You have to go through a whole rigmarole of trying to get that executed.
- [32:17]
C
So I think when I look back at some of the more difficult projects, it's not necessarily the level of complexity for construction. As a retailer, most retailers, when they remove remodel, regardless of how big the remodel is, they don't close. And so if you, if you think about the, the component of I've got to do an internal expansion of a pharmacy or, you know, add a clinic or I've got restroom and ADA remodels, I've got, I'm going to change the merchandising layout. I've got front registers that need new, new technology. Right. You are trying to execute all of those things in a very fast period, you know, a short amount of time and with a lot of great vendors, but they're all third party, right? You got to bring in the technology guy and you got to get them to work with like the local, you know, supplier cabling. And you've got, I mean, it's just, it goes on and on and on. And so those projects aren't super glamorous, but. And the number of changes that are happening while you're trying to still operate the store and sell a product and supply, you know, supply of pharmaceuticals to like, you know, from a, from a healthcare perspective. So you got all of these elements that you're constantly working through. When I look at my career, I think about that segment of time, like where, like that was our focus and think, man, that was probably some of the biggest pick, you know, the biggest or the heaviest lift to just get through that period of time because you are constantly like juggling all those pieces as you go through it. So yeah, we, and we came up with all kinds of secrets I could, you know, I think there's trauma associated with it. At the end, you're like, oh, my God.
- [33:56]
A
That's like giving me flashbacks to when we. We helped Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf get nitro in their stores. And it was. It would. You would think, okay, we are literally just adding a tap that can pour a beverage. Okay, well, that equipment didn't exist at all. And so we ended up working with UL and NSF to take a bunch of components to get them all certified together, but it couldn't happen in time. So we ended up going to each health department in California and going, how can we get this approved? In which way? And then we got all of these comp. But then we had night work, and then we had. Because stores were open. And so now we're working with 170 stores with night work, trying to make sure all the supplies are there, getting the different subs out. And like, here is your check. Oh, man. Yeah, you're right. It's the heaviest lift for the lowest, like, dollar amount you're going to spend. And so many moving pieces.
- [34:44]
C
Yeah, well, I think the average person doesn't think about all those components, too. I mean, you know. Yeah, you just. You, like, you have, like, oh, it's. It's so easy. Just put a tap in. Right. It's a little millwork thing and a tap. But you're like, you know, I mean, we're doing one now, and it's like, well, there's a sprinkler system involved, and there's a. You're like a sprinkler system. It has nothing to do with this. Well, you know, you're changing the grill underneath. It does actually have something to do with it. Right. So it's. It is funny. There's. There are so many caveats to all these simple little projects that we. We want to tackle.
- [35:20]
A
So going all the way back to when you started as an architect and to where you're at now, I. I would assume you didn't see that exact career path. What was maybe the biggest surprise to you throughout that, as it evolved, either how development worked or from what you thought you were getting into to where it went.
- [35:36]
C
Yeah, I. When I. So first, I, I actually never thought that I would be in retail. Like, I, I. When I went to architecture school, I was, you know, I was going to be the next great designer. I don't know what I was designing, but I don't think it was going to be stores. Like, I don't think that's where my head was at. But, you know, you're young, you dream. So. Yeah, so I don't know that I even had visibility to the career that I have now, like as an, as a architect, as an architectural student, as a young architect, as you're going through, you know, you're, you're so focused on constructability, like design elements, just, you know, how all these components come together and it's sort of, I don't want to say it's a limiting aspect, but when you, when you step back and you think about development and then you step back and you think about all the, you know, the components of playing in that development realm. Architecture is just one component of it. Right? And it is very important. It's incredibly important from my view. But like, it's, it's also just one component of it. So I think career wise, and I've said this many, many times, you just never, you never pass up that opportunity or that door that open without at least looking at it and seeing. Because I think sometimes what you find is that, oh my gosh, this piece that I was doing is such a great foundation to launch into a different direction. And so I've been, I'm so blessed to have thankfully had those opportunities, presented or discovered those opportunities and then been able to add on them. And even, even the role I'm playing today, I mean, this point in my career, I wasn't real sure about making the move back to, from a national perspective, from a, from a big corporate organization into the services side. And now, you know, I went from, from dealing with one organization's, you know, development efforts to now having a series of clients where I get to see and really help solve. And so each time I've been able to build on it, but I don't, I don't think each time that an opportunity presented, I had full, like, I, maybe now a bit more so, but younger in my career. I, I don't know that I knew all these pieces existed. And so as you kind of, as somebody sort of peels it back and is like, well, this becomes something you discover, like, wow, I, I love that. Or, or I don't love that. Or, you know, I mean, the first time I ever had a team report, to me, I was, I was probably the worst leader that there was. Like, I didn't know how to do it right. So you, you kind of have to like peel it back, step back, back and say, okay, now I understand, right? The first time they sent me in for the first time, I showed up at a town hall meeting to get something rezoned I don't think it went well. You, you know, you're trying. You're fumbling your way through that conversation going, no, no, you want my, you want me to be here. They're like, no, we don't want any national attendance here. I was like, no, this is great.
- [38:33]
A
Like, so, yeah, I think those public hearings are terrifying.
- [38:37]
C
Yeah, they're terrifying. You know, public speaking aside, like, they're terrifying to get up there and try to convince somebod something when you're not even sure they want, you know, like. But, but it is, it is always an exploration. I think that's, that's the thing. And I, I will tell you, I love what I do. I have. I have found that the more opportunity I have in the development space, and it doesn't matter if it's at the national level or a local level, just, you know, watching it go from this inception of these great ideas to something that you're utilizing, and it's a built asset in whatever form it takes. Takes. It's. I, I mean, I just, it's, it's like really watching it come to fruition. Right? It's like taking that great idea and seeing it come to life. So I, I know not everybody thinks that way. I'm probably, you know, maybe the weird one in the group, but I, I love all aspects of it. I'm like, you know, give me the problem. Let me try to figure out how to solve it. So
- [39:34]
B
that's awesome. Yeah. And, And I think it, It's. It's beneficial to hear because there's a lot. I mean, I'm, I, I'm an example of that where I didn't even know development was an option. I studied engineering and then got into software development and did that for a while and then kind of fumbled into brokerage. And then you start dealing with all these types of business owners doing different things, and you're like, oh, well, maybe I can do that. And then all of a sudden you start going that way, and now you're in a career that you never would have thought would have even been possible. But it just through those life circumstances that just so happened. And the hope is that through this podcast and what Christie's doing as well is that more people realize that it's a possibility because there's. That's half the, that's half the battle is just getting out of your own head.
- [40:17]
C
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's. Listen, I tell. So we have a. We have interns, summer interns that just started. And I was having this conversation with our summer interns. And I'm like, you know, it's as important to understand whether or not you, you like or that you understand what you're being given this opportunity to do do. If you come away from this and you're like, I never want to do that again. That's as valuable as I loved what I did because, yeah, probably right, because you don't, you don't spiral off down a direction that isn't going to be an interest to you for the rest of your career. And, you know, in certain organizations, you can kind of look across the aisle. And I tell this to them all the time too. I'm like, don't just pay attention to what you're being tasked with, but, like, check out what everybody else is doing around you, because that might be something that you're super interested in and that might be the next step you take in that direction or that's the next class you gotta grab or, you know, whatever it might be. So. And I, I think, you know, as you, that's the same for us, right? Like, it's the same thing. We've all kind of fumbled through different parts of our career going, how do I take this and move it in that direction? And, you know, I think I, I
- [41:26]
A
love the Steve Jobs quote. You cannot connect the dots looking forward. You can looking back and just seeing it's like, oh, yeah, that happened for me to get to that, to get to that and then that. Okay, okay.
- [41:35]
C
Yeah.
- [41:35]
A
And just even like, like you said, looking across and seeing if there's other areas of interest. I also one of my co founders of Elevate, she graduated from uf, took the lsat, started interning at a law firm. And she was like, I looked at the other people in the office and I looked at what their jobs were, and I look and saw that they hated their lives. And she's like, hell, no, not for me. Like, I. I can't do that path. I. And she would have been just fine, but she was like that. That is not for me. I saw the future and was now.
- [42:04]
C
Yeah, Yeah. I actually, I'll tie this back to development too, for a minute, but I tell this to, to all of our, like, project managers and like, you're going to get. You're going to get this opportunity to go do something. Right? And I, I remember this project very specifically, but it was like everything that poss. It was South Florida, and everything that possibly could have come up through that process came up right. Like you, like, to the end where we just Couldn't get a co because you didn't, you didn't file three different applications, right? And I, and I was like, look at the end of the, you learned from this as all those components now, you know, to ask the question, when you go into the next project, you are so much more valuable, right? And it's, it goes, it's our careers, it's our projects, it's our opportunities around these things. But, like, you have to constantly be looking and like, okay, I took this experience, I took this whatever, right, And I applied it to the next one going forward or the next thing phase opportunities. So, yeah, it is true. It is true. We'll look back on this podcast and say, what is it that we apply?
- [43:06]
B
Yeah, well, and that, and that leads me to my next question, which is, you know, what, what does the future hold for you? I mean, what, what, what are you excited about? What, what gets you jazzed up over the next five years in your career?
- [43:18]
C
Yeah, I, so I took, so I took this position and I told you I have two, two sectors. I, I, I haven't had to do business development or grow a sector, right? At cvs, I had, they were all internal. They, like, they had to come, right? So, and I was a little, I was a little unsure as to like, man, do I really want to go back into that space? What I, what I am finding is that I, I am so jazzed about what I'm doing because as I meet these individuals who had the same role that I just came out of, I can, I can really, I am so relatable on, like, so many levels, right? Like, I can commiserate with them through the agony of, like, okay, I see, see this problem's in front of you, and we solved it like this when at cvs, but, like, you're down this other path. But I love, I love that the opportunity is so far reaching now and, and that I get to, you know, I get to consult in all of those spaces. And so I don't know that I'll always be the one chosen to, like, partner with them to, to find the solution. But I do know that when, you know, when I am chosen, when my teams do come in, I can, it's very relatable. It's, it's something where, you know, you feel like you're part of that solution for them. So that's a very different aspect for me, just having all the, you know, all these big, multiple national tenants that we're, we're kind of supporting across the board and even the Local ones. I mean, I've met so many incredible people on all different facets of these. Of these projects that now we're working with. And so I'm like, gosh, I. I thought I was well networked, but now I've got an even bigger span, so that's pretty awesome. So, I don't know. I continue to hope this grows. I, you know, this is an organization that isn't necessarily as tied down to all the corporate processes and steps associated. So as I'm navigating through it, I think I can lean into some of the other pieces and, you know, help build teams or help. Help whatever. So it's. It's broadening what I'm doing a little bit, which is fun. And then, you know, I'm still. I'm still trying to just do my own thing locally too, is it really relates to any of the development that I have in front of me. I've. We bought a property here locally, just more on a necessity because I had a kid in college. We were like, let's do this. And. But it's really in a great location. And, you know, the kids graduated from college now. So I'm like, what do we do with this property that makes the most sense? Because it's not. It's not housing a bunch of boys in a frat house. Right. Like, so, you know, I've got some multifamily in front of me. It's a. It's a nice property and it's in a growth market. Growth area for Tampa. So. So I'm like, well, that'll. That's something. And, you know, I mean, we're continuing to look across the board and see what else is out there. I'm. I'm always ready to like, jump in on. On like the next big idea to the point sometimes where I'm like, maybe I should slow down on some of that.
- [46:09]
B
So you're talking to the right people. Because we do. We do that constantly.
- [46:13]
C
It's like, we can do this. We'll figure out how in a minute, but we can totally do this.
- [46:19]
B
Say yes and then figure it out later.
- [46:20]
C
That's right. That's exactly. Surround yourself with those people and you'll get things done. Right?
- [46:26]
A
Yeah. And I think the most rewarding part, like you said, is the fact that you can take your prior experience and now you get to benefit so many different organizations and people. And it's like, oh, that was all worth it. The blood, sweat and the tears and the laughs and the. The good times like that all Comes together and it's, it's what I find very enjoyable is the fact that something that used to take me a long time to figure out is right away I'll hear stuff. And because of our experience, we can go, well, here's, here's the answer. But that's 20 to 30 years of experience going, here's the answer. And it's, it's nice that it comes a little bit easier now to go, okay, we don't have to work quite as hard to tie this all together.
- [47:01]
C
I like, so I have played this role and I, and I actually use other people to play this role. But, you know, I think a lot of times in our roles or our, our, the work we do, sometimes you just want the sounding board to like, you know, know that you're not, you know, it's, it's less about how they respond, but more about you talking it throughout loud to hear that like, okay, I'm headed in the right direction or this, this is solvable, or, you know, whatever it is. So I, I think about that a lot as, as I develop things internal to work or personally or whatever, but I'm, you know, I'm constantly kind of, you know, checking or gut checking as we go through things like, are we, are we on the right path? Does this make the most sense for what we're doing? I always encourage people, like, find that person, find that backstop for you. So, you know, you've got something to bounce up things off of 100%.
- [47:49]
A
That is, that has helped me throughout every step of my career. And I used to think you had to go do it all yourself or the, for, you know, all the different reasons and it's not the case. And the reason we now reach back and we put a hand out is because other people did it to us. And the biggest thing, like, people are always like, how do I find a mentor? And it's like, well, literally they're right in front of you. But you need to then be willing to take action because if you show signs of progress, we're going to keep pouring into you. If you don't, you don't, then, then that's it. But if you, if you go take action, like, we don't have as much energy as we used to. And I remember my mentors telling me that. And now I'm the one saying this, going, yeah, I don't. But here, let me spin you up, give you all the info and send you out and then you come back once you get it. And I'm like, this is good.
- [48:32]
C
Yeah, yeah, it's cute.
- [48:36]
A
So as you, well one I'm going to keep you in the loop on. We're doing elevate Southwest Florida in, down in Bonita Springs. But I am, am in trying to find the location up in St. Pete. We're trying to do St. Pete, not Tampa, but it's, it's in bonita. It's a 10 to 15 acre sports and wellness destination that really is that missing third space and multi generational and complex as hell. And it's, it's. If it weren't this complex, I'd be bored and wouldn't want to do it. But St. Pete is near and dear to me and I have like that demographic works so well. So I will keep you posted as we get the land secured up there because, because yeah it's, it's so big that we get to collaborate with so many awesome groups and people. That. That is my favorite part. It's like I can't do it all myself. So we get to, yeah, the, the people we get to pull in. So I'll keep you posted on that.
- [49:27]
C
Yeah, definitely. Well, and the organization I'm with now has so many different arms. I mean we have design inside internal to us, we have construction internal to us. And so I mean we've got, we've got skills, skill sets across the board. So I'd love to collaborate and, and see, you know, how we can partner on, on whatever it might look like
- [49:45]
A
that would be a fun. The like one of the most fun full circle moments to be like. And then we're doing.
- [49:49]
C
Yes, we can call the sign vendor and say hey, we need signing.
- [49:56]
A
It all started with signs. Goodness. So I mean you've, you've already dropped a ton of advice. Is there, is there any final things you would tell people who are on the fence, who want to get into development and, or, and just to, to navigate through that process that you would give to them. Just.
- [50:13]
C
Yeah, I, I mean I, I would say like just know you're gonna hit that minute where it's like, and hopefully it's only a minute but like where your gut is like turning and you're not really sure and it's gotten really difficult and then you just. The like, the best advice is put your head down and keep going forward because you will get through it. I don't, you know, I. Sometimes it takes longer and you know it's you pouring more into it but it, it does get you, get you all the way through. So you just sort of never give up as you're going and you know, just never be afraid to take whatever that next opportunity is because I think, I think they turn into great things. You know, you just may not have full sight of what it looks like at the start. So. Yeah, I never lose, never lose touch with somebody.
- [50:57]
A
Right.
- [50:57]
C
Like at the, at the end of the day, you never know where you could end up on a podcast.
- [51:04]
A
Exactly.
- [51:05]
B
Awesome. Well, Danny, we really appreciate you taking the time today to share insights. I know I gained a lot from the conversation. I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from the audience. If you want to learn more about you, to get in touch, what's the best way to be able to do that?
- [51:19]
C
You. So I'm at 7, so it's, it's danny.gallagherven.com you can reach me via email or I'm, you know, you can find me on my LinkedIn profile. I'm happy to share that. Reach out to Christy. She'll, she'll put you in touch with me. Always happy to connect and, and on any level, whether it's development or career growth or, or if we can help service and support you, that's great too.
- [51:43]
B
Definitely. No, we'll make sure to include that in the show notes. So again, Danny, really appreciate your time. I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback on this episode. For those of you guys are watching this on YouTube, please like and subscribe. It makes a huge impact our ability to reach a broader audience and we greatly appreciate the support. Support along with that. If you guys are watching this or listening to this in a podcast format, whether that's Apple podcasts or Spotify, please leave a five star review. The more five star reviews we achieve, the broader reach we achieve and ultimately more and more people will get inspired to take on their first real estate development project. So thanks again so much for tuning in and we'll see you all next time.
- [52:15]
C
Thank you.