Loading summary
Transcript262 lines
- [00:04]
A
Were you raised in the country?
- [00:06]
B
Yeah, well, you know, I mean, it was a big town of I think 1500 people when I was there. But. But I was. Yeah, I grew up in a little farm town.
- [00:17]
A
Really? Where? On the east coast?
- [00:20]
B
No, in the middle of Kansas.
- [00:23]
A
No way.
- [00:24]
B
Yeah, actually, I can proudly say I'm from the middle of nowhere, man. I. But yeah, no, it was, it was a great. For a little kid though, you know, a cowboy, Indian, fighting little hombre. I mean, first of all, thank you so much for doing this and we've. You've been after me for a long time and I've. I'm pretty bashful about all this kind of stuff. You know, when it's your life story, it's kind of a boring story, but totally. A lot of the things that I loved and continue to wear and, and shop for stuff I grew up with. You know, my, I had one grandfather who was sort of a farmer rancher who wore Levi's and chambray shirts and, and open road hats. And I remember he got me both a felt one and a straw one, you know, as I was growing up. And so I love to hang with him. My other grand father was more of a carpenter, I guess you'd say. He wore overalls and he wore flannel shirts. In fact, he wore the printed flannel shirts, which was probably the cheaper of the flannel shirts back in the day. So I had another, I had a great uncle that I love to hang with that I swear to God, I remember him all wearing khaki and he also loved to wear white carpenter pants and he wore roper boots, you know, and I, you know, so those were some of the things that I, you know, as you're a little kid, you want to copy shit, right? So I wanted to be just like those guys, you know, like you're talking
- [02:18]
A
about this affection that you have for these icons of your youth that you're. I mean, I'm thinking about how many celebrities or this person and that person, the who's who are trying to recreate these styles not knowing that they're recreating the icons of your youth, these everyday people.
- [02:35]
B
Yeah, I remember going to family, you know, gatherings and everybody is all kind of dressed up and they've got their nicest jeans on and they've got their, you know, wrangler Levi Lee, you know, I, I had them all and, and they had like, you know, they're, they're like white and blue or white and brown plaid western shirt on, you know, and Their ha. Slipped back, you know. Yeah. From their, you know, so with their big sideburns and whatever and I, you know, and, and, and their boots were polished and then, then you see him at work and they're. It's, it's the, that they used to wear. Nice. Now it's their workload and they washed a few times. Right. So they got their faded jeans and their, and their beat up flannel shirt and their beat up sweatshirt and whatever, you know, and I, and I, you know, I used to go hu. My with all those guys I was just talking about. And I remember, you know, it got cold, they would give me, I would wear their sweatshirt, I would wear their, you know, so I, I grew up in that stuff, you know, like, like the red plaid hunting coat, you know, that was in the back of my grandfather's truck, you know. Yeah.
- [03:56]
A
So organic decay, and that's what I seek in the clothing is like something that has that story of organic decay. That's like not it to me. All shiny and going like here, here's a false reality that everything's going to last and it's always shiny. I like the one that tells the story of life exactly. For you though, it's just you're looking up to the people that are around you. And so organic decay as a concept, that, that's a thing that's happening to the clothes that you're enjoying or that you're affectionizing. It's almost like you have to get introduced to that concept. That's a thing. Because it's really just your admiration for the styles that are going on around you. Right?
- [04:37]
B
Yeah. And you know, they didn't have any money and then, you know, they didn't give up on a garment. Man. You know, patches were, you know, nice. You know, I, I remember my, my first construction job which didn't last long when I was probably high school, first year college or something. And I was wearing my grandfather's Lee blanket line denim jacket and you know, paint spackling and you know, and getting stuff on there. And it was just sort of like I was thinking, wow, I'm adding on to what my grandfather already had all over this coat, you know. Wow, that's amazing. So, you know, so it's, it's sort of. And now that's an iconic fucking jacket.
- [05:26]
A
Right, right.
- [05:28]
B
So. And it was funny when I first started doing, you know, for, you know, buying the clothes for a living for Ralph, you know, like resell, reselling, you know, for him to resell the clothes, those things Weren't that important, you know. Yeah, they were after the Buco jacket or the, the Hercules motorcycle boot or you know, the studded belt, you know, whatever. So like a lot of that stuff that I'm talking about on the back row, the Rose bowl was freaking $20. You know, when, when Ralph, you know, came up with, with his concept, Double Rl, you know, it was really based, as everyone knows, on vintage clothes. And like he would say, you know, that he wanted to have this vintage look for everybody. So I'll just make it show. A lot of the things that he was doing wore that classic flannel shirt, that classic, you know, five pocket jean Levi, you know, that iconic stuff that everyone's doing now. But he was really, I think, the first iconic guy, if you will. The line was small, so we had to, you know, put the hunting boots in there and we had to put the. There was a western thing, there was a military thing, there was a motorcycle thing. So, you know, we had to find some of those pieces that he hadn't been making yet. Now they make pretty much the whole thing. And. But at the time it was just a two pair of jeans, you know, two different styles of jeans, maybe six flannels, maybe, maybe a work jean jacket and a short jean jacket. You know, it wasn't. So we needed all that stuff. He was trying to do it so well that you couldn't tell the difference. And lots of times I couldn't, I'd walk in and still go, wow, I don't remember buying that. And then, oh, wow, that's Double RL Cool. You know, so it was, it was a cool. But anyway, the way I started was when we were building the concept of the line and stuff, we were going out to L. A because that's where that was the Mecca and probably still is maybe Tokyo now. I don't know. Probably right. But anyway, in fact, we used to say, you know, we're going to be buying all this shit back someday. And of course, here we are. But they were more hip to what was going on with how cool those clothes were than the American were.
- [08:10]
A
Right.
- [08:11]
B
You know, I was a huge Neil Young fan. Go back and look at pictures. The patch jeans, the old flannel shirt, you know what I mean?
- [08:20]
A
That's fudgeing it, man. That is like my whole inner being is what you just described. Like Neil Young on the beach era.
- [08:27]
B
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. When I was going to college, I was working in this, in this shop, Woody's in Manhattan, Kansas. Right. And they, they were One of the first ones to start carrying Ralph Lauren. And they were a preppy shop. 1970. It wasn't cool to be preppy man, you know? Yeah, no, you were, you were either sort of a redneck in Kansas, you know, like farm kid. You could have been, you could be an army kid or you could be a hippie. The guy who was the preppy guy was almost considered a little bit weird. Right. So I used to change clothes before I went on campus. Right. I would, I would put my Neil Young outfit back on, you know, take my pleated khakis off and my button down chambray or button down oxford or whatever. Yeah. But. But then Ralph started making all that cool, you know? Yeah.
- [09:31]
A
This is fascinating. You said something even vintage wasn't even seen as fashion at a certain point. Like the, the concept hadn't even been invented, right, as like that, like secondhand being a thing, a genre.
- [09:46]
B
Well, it was almost. In fact, I've read an interview with Patti Smith once and she talks about how her mother, you know, clothed them in secondhand stores and, and how it was really sort of, you know, people look down, you know, they couldn't afford. Right, right.
- [10:06]
A
It's still that way when I was growing up. Right.
- [10:09]
B
But she loved the stuff, you know. Yeah. And it's funny, I, you know, I would work in the, the, you know, the most expensive clothing store in town, but after hours, I was at the Army Navy store.
- [10:24]
A
Right, yeah, totally.
- [10:25]
B
And. Or I was at the secondhand store. But yeah, I think, I think for a lot of people back then, 6,070s secondhand clothes were, were looked down upon. Like, like you were poor, you were, you know, you know, you were one step off of living on the street.
- [10:47]
A
Totally, totally.
- [10:48]
B
Yeah.
- [10:48]
A
Seems like all through the 80s, even that was still a thing, you know,
- [10:52]
B
Like I could tell so many stories of being in the Ralph Lauren store and somebody, wealthy person that I would know or know of or whatever would be trying on something and I would be helping them and they go, wow, that's really cool. And then, then they'd realize that it was not new and it was. They'd freak out half the time putting it back. Like, what do you mean? Well, why is it so expensive? You know, somebody wore this before. That's right. Of course I would have wore this before. They couldn't take it off quick enough, you know?
- [11:26]
A
Ye.
- [11:27]
B
Yeah, you know, like dead man clothes, man.
- [11:29]
A
I've got a shirt in here, one of those cattle, those rancher denim long shirts from like the 30s.
- [11:35]
B
Right.
- [11:36]
A
And it's got blood. I swear it has blood all over the back like a splatter. Did somebody get shot in this shirt? I mean, I want to wear that,
- [11:46]
B
but. Yeah, no, it was a thing and it was, I'm sure with all, you know, where we are today, I still think a lot of people walk into the store, don't realize that those are used clothes. But like you said, I. When, when you learn to appreciate not only, you know, the, the fabrics that are so much better than, and, and the leathers and, and then once you add that, that age and that patina and that, how it's gotten better with age, you know.
- [12:19]
A
Right.
- [12:20]
B
And, and then, and then, you know, most people don't see that.
- [12:24]
A
Right?
- [12:24]
B
They don't. They like the new thing.
- [12:26]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [12:27]
B
And that back then it was really,
- [12:30]
A
you know, that was pervasive.
- [12:32]
B
Well, obviously Ralph was making WRL to appear to be vintage. Right. So people would kind of question that, is this, you know, oh, it looks like it's been washed. Yeah, it's been. Yeah, we did that on purpose. And back, way back in the 70s when I was talking about the store I worked at and Ralph was, was starting to do clothing at that era was when double knit had sort of been invented, you know, late 60s, early 70s, you went from wash and wear to double knit, basically, you know. Yeah. So suddenly housewives, I mean that. Not a derogatory thing, but back then they were housewives and they would wash the clothes and they didn't have to iron the shirts anymore, you know, and they didn't have to worry about shrinkage anymore.
- [13:21]
A
Right.
- [13:21]
B
They just had to worry about their husband wearing God awful fabric on their back that, you know, didn't breathe and didn't, you know, whatever. But so, so when, when, when they would walk into the Woody store and they would, they would look at this expensive pinstripe cotton shirt that's twice as much as maybe three times as much as they're used to. And, and they'd be going, but, but it's all cotton. It's going to shrink. And Ralph would put a tag on there, guaranteed to shrink, that it's going to need to be iron, you know.
- [13:58]
A
Right.
- [13:59]
B
And there'd be a tag guaranteed to wrinkle, you know, so in, in madness he'd say guaranteed to fade, guaranteed to bleed, guaranteed to die.
- [14:08]
A
He's saying it's impermanent.
- [14:09]
B
Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's going to do all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's. But anyway, I think, you know, the General population was going towards that and I, I can't imagine the amount of vintage, great vintage that got thrown away from that generation. You know, my grandparents went through the depression, so they saved everything, you know, and that's, that's. You hear about these guys going into the old abandoned houses now and, and finding these buckle back jeans. But that's because they didn't throw that shit away, you know. You know. Yeah, but then we've got that just, you know, probably more than ever guilty of that disposable fashion, you know that.
- [14:55]
A
Right.
- [14:56]
B
You know.
- [14:56]
A
Yeah.
- [14:57]
B
And that's how they sell you more.
- [14:59]
A
Right, right. Oddly enough, sometimes that disposable fashion too these days is being created to look like the vintage gear.
- [15:05]
B
Exactly. No, every, everyone is, is latching on to this latest little trend. Right. You hear like me, you know, when it becomes a trend, you're almost like either the other way.
- [15:19]
A
Totally.
- [15:19]
B
Yeah. So yeah, it's a little like, you know, okay, I didn't know that they would like that too.
- [15:26]
A
But what did you think you wanted to be when you were younger? And even if you didn't become that thing, how did you end up still kind of becoming that thing?
- [15:37]
B
Like Most, you know, 18 year olds, you couldn't wait to get out of the house. You couldn't wait to go party with your buddies. And growing up in the middle of Kansas, I wanted to be a surfer. You know what I had, you know, you got the Internet now, but then you had like the new Beach Boys album cover.
- [15:56]
A
Right.
- [15:56]
B
You know. Right. Wow. They're wearing flannel shirts and they're wearing, they're wearing these baggy fucking cool bird wear shorts, you know. And then you had like, like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones that were almost like ying and yang. I mean it was like the, the Beatles were sort of like, you could, you could watch it Sullivan with and watch the Beatles, but the Rolling Stones, you know, and then it got like Black Sabbath.
- [16:27]
A
Right.
- [16:27]
B
You know, so some of the early rock and roll was where I was like looking.
- [16:33]
A
Yeah, that's so to think about. Like, like that. Well, like you said, you have the Internet now so you could saturate your day completely with studying the inspirations of all time and like styles and look at different angles of haircuts and stuff like that. But you're saying, and you're reminding me that that in that era you get an album cover or a few album covers and you have to look at that and kind of piece it together. What are they doing with that? How are they Wearing their hair. How are they? What are they wearing? And that's all you got. Just a picture that you would have to go buy to even have it to continue to view it or watching tv. These little glimpses. And so it's almost like style has been created through the attempt at recreating these little glimpses.
- [17:18]
B
I mean, I think. I think one of the great easy ways to look at that is look at the Beatles album covers.
- [17:25]
A
Yeah.
- [17:25]
B
Look at 1963. Yeah, yeah. And then look at Abbey Road. Right. I mean, look at all of them in between. Look at, you know, sergeant Pepper. You know, it's insane in a decade
- [17:36]
A
how much those guys change. I mean, from the 63 haircuts even to 66 and 67, it's like astronomically different. Mustaches and like.
- [17:47]
B
Oh, long hair, really long hair. And like, you know, all the stuff that everything totally, you know. You know, and, you know, Bob Dylan was a folk singer then he became almost just like alter hero, you know, Like. I don't know.
- [18:02]
A
Right. Yeah. Is he messing with me?
- [18:06]
B
Yeah.
- [18:07]
A
What's that picture in the background? That's a. It looks like a Bob.
- [18:11]
B
Oh, Katzberg, I think, did it and I blew it up, you know, through the gallery back in, I don't know, the 80s, and used it for a Ralph Lauren showroom. And then. Then we were working on the new RRL store on Mulberry, and Spencer loved it, so we put it in there. Renting it the whole time, really. And so I had a deal with the gallery that, you know, after we could buy it, using the rental towards the purchase.
- [18:46]
A
Dude.
- [18:46]
B
So I rented it for so long, it was almost free, and I went ahead and bought it.
- [18:50]
A
Nice, man.
- [18:52]
B
I think it's a 60. It's a. It's a photo shoot from the. From the mid-60s, 67 or something like that.
- [18:59]
A
Yeah.
- [18:59]
B
Larry Katzburg, I think is his name.
- [19:02]
A
Who did you want to be like,
- [19:03]
B
you know, I don't know. I don't know. I think. I think you get this vision that, you know, you just want to go have fun and go do cool stuff, you know, like, some people have this, like, I'm going to go to college, I'm going to learn this, and I'm going to go become this and da, da, da. I'm gonna make a lot of money and blah, blah, blah, blah. I just wanted to go where the next cool thing to do was, you know.
- [19:27]
A
So how'd you get there? Like, how'd you. How'd you get to go?
- [19:30]
B
I had a friend that Was in Florida. And so I went down to see him with another friend and drove down and he was, he was actually in Longboat Key. And we were there a couple days, you know, smoking weed, having a good time, listening to great music, watching great sunsets. And I was going, dude, like, like, like where's the surf? Like, I don't see any surf. He goes, dude, that's on the other side. I said, oh, cool. So then I moved over to, up to Melbourne beach and became a waiter and was, you know, realized fairly quickly that I was a terrible surfer. But then I remembered I was a pretty good skier growing up in Kansas. I, you know, I got to go skiing a pretty young age and, you know, love doing it. So I decided to do that.
- [20:28]
A
And this is, what is this fulfilling?
- [20:30]
B
Like, I, I just, I just think I looked at, I looked up to those people who were surfers and skiers and thought they were cool.
- [20:38]
A
Who are the surfers of the era? Is this 70 years ago or.
- [20:42]
B
I, I don't know that I can really name them without a surfer, a real surfer telling me, I'm full of. But Jerry Lopez was around. Yeah. Dick Knoll was around. I, I would, I would take the Rolling Stone magazine. That was really cool. Get a lot of information. I remember seeing the, the movie Downhill Racer with Robert Redford that came out late 60s. I think, dude, I want to go be that guy.
- [21:14]
A
That makes sense.
- [21:15]
B
And he was wearing, if you remember, he's wearing, you know, Levi jeans and rough out suede cowboy boots with probably, you know, probably some French, you know, high tech ski sweater of the day, probably. I don't, I can't remember the name. So that Obermeyer, probably. Obermeyer, yeah. And I remember he had these cool sunglasses, these cool aviator sunglasses. You know, a lot of people got their inspiration from movies and I gotta say that was me all over the place growing up in the middle of Kansas, you know, Saturday matinee as a little kid watching cowboys in Indians, watching war movies, watching Dracula, watching, you know. Yeah, all this, all this stuff. I remember my father taking me to go see James Dean and the Giant. Wow, that's cool.
- [22:11]
A
Yeah, totally, man. Since you're piecing it all together yourself for movies and records and Rolling Stone and all that stuff, you're kind of piecing together what's cool and, and are you holding on to the thread of the style that you were raised? I mean, the kind of rancher, sort of like cowboy type deal? Are you infusing that with all what's happening in Pop culture or are you returned. Is there a big return to that later?
- [22:36]
B
Yeah, well, I think there was a. You know, I couldn't necessarily take credit for it because, like I said, Neil Young was already doing. He was already wearing the red wings and the freaking, you know, painter pants and, you know, the flannel shirt, since I already love that shit, and he's wearing it really cool. It kind of all made sense, I guess so. So, yeah, that was almost my. Definitely my. My go to wardrobe, and then I would go to work and put on that cool Ralph Lauren bellows pocket corduroy sport coat with the pleated pants and, you know, and it was like, even though my father dressed that way, I kind of didn't appreciate it, I don't think until. Or maybe it was in the back of my head.
- [23:26]
A
So how do you know what's cool? What's a resounding element of something that's cool in its raw form to you?
- [23:34]
B
Well, I think it's something that's actually very. What I want to say, very familiar, but done better than you ever seen it done before. Yeah, you know, the. The best crewneck sweater. Yeah, the. The. The, you know, like. Yeah, the, you know, the Big Mac flannel shirt from the 60s was really cool, but Ralph then took that and. And built a flannel shirt that you could wear to the office, if you will. Like, wow, that's cool. And I think the thing I think makes it cool is, is it's attractive. It's. Attracts you to it. It's a, you know, like. Like, what is that? I want. I want to see that, and I want to put that on. I don't want to take that off now. It's cool.
- [24:29]
A
Wow, man, that's so great. The breakdown on cool from Doug. That's awesome, man. It's like nostalgic with the twist that you. That you. You have to touch, like, you have to move toward.
- [24:43]
B
Right.
- [24:43]
A
Yeah.
- [24:44]
B
No, that. That's why the Internet is so hard, I think, for old guys like me to buy. You can make a lot of stuff look really good in a photograph.
- [24:52]
A
Totally, man.
- [24:54]
B
And I think it's sad had that we're all just shipping stuff back and forth, back and forth, back and forth where you walk into a store, and lots of times, even here in East Hampton, I walk in a store I'd never been into before because my grand niche wants to go in there and I see something, I go, wow, that's really cool. You know? And you. You know, I think it's. It's a much better way to. To enjoy things, to discover things. It's actually getting out and doing it rather than watching it on your computer completely, man. Ordering it on your computer or.
- [25:33]
A
Well, you even said, I mean, like how it's hard on the Internet. It's even hard. I went to a thrift store yesterday and there's some things I'll go like, holy, look at this. It's a Smith shirt and looks like totally vintage. And then I'll always go to the caller to see if there's a. A tag, of course. Or not, or a print. And there's usually prints these days. And even in person holding this thing, it looks like a vintage item. So they've gotten even cleverly deceptive.
- [26:01]
B
It makes sense that, that they, that, that, you know, like how, you know, I can see them sitting in their design rooms. How can I make this more appealing to that, to that vintage kid? There's something about the vintage fit that is, you know, they can never figure out.
- [26:21]
A
Right.
- [26:21]
B
Like no one's ever figured out Levi's. Yeah. I mean, give me a break. I've never put on one pair that I would say that's exactly like my, my big ease. And I've tried on millions and I'm not. I'm sure that there's something and I'm sure I'll get called out for it. But in. And. And Levi is not smart enough to redo it again. I don't know why they can't recaptured either, but. Right. You know, it seems like a very easy concept. Right. You know, but. But there's something about each Levi, each Big Mac shirt. They all fit different because they all were made, you know, reasonably much more by hand, and they shrank differently. They were washed differently. They were, you know, so it almost
- [27:07]
A
seems like you can't cheat time, you know, like the, the real deal of what time and wear does to something you can't replicate in the way that like dyeing your hair doesn't make you younger, you know.
- [27:21]
B
Right. In fact, my dad used to wear toupee and then he had a hair transplant.
- [27:26]
A
Yeah.
- [27:27]
B
So I'm like, I'm. I'm totally hip to, you know, movie stars, you know, I mean, it's like, you know, it's pretty rampant actually. Right.
- [27:37]
A
Oh, totally. I'm obsessed with weird.
- [27:39]
B
That doesn't look right.
- [27:40]
A
I know. I'm obsessed with it. I always talk to my partner, have this thing while we're watching tv and I go, you know, he dyes his hair. Right. And she goes, like, no, no, he's not doing it. I'm like, Stephen Colbert's dyeing his hair. Like, even Stephen Colbert, if I'm hearing this right, the idea of Americana when it comes to vintage, the particular cowboy kind of ranch, almost cowboy and Indian thing that you talk about, your origins, how that was birthed into the scene, could we say in all humility, that that's yours and Ralph's vision, that's made that a mainstream concept within vintage.
- [28:20]
B
I've been able to have a lot of conversations with Ralph, and he, you know, I count him as a deep, dear friend, and he basically had the same thing. You know, going to movies, looking at magazines, looking at, you know, and you, you know, you become, you know, attracted to something. You know, he. He was a Cary Grant guy. He was a Alan Ladd, you know, Steve McQueen back in the. You know, he was on TV. Clint Eastwood was on TV.
- [28:55]
A
You guys shared a vision, like.
- [28:57]
B
Yeah.
- [28:57]
A
An obsession.
- [28:58]
B
In. In a weird way, we had the same thing where he was influenced by what was going on around him, what he was seeing on. On the silver screen, if you will. And I had the same thing going on with me. So as far as American style and where it came from, I think it's American designers like Ralph, who was deeply influenced by the English and the Europe and da, da, da, with all his clothing and his purple label now and blah, blah, blah. But I think he was just as influenced when he was walking from his apartment to his office on 55th street and saw some guys out in the middle of the street digging up the cobblestones in red wings and Levi's and Carhartt jackets. You know what I mean?
- [29:51]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [29:52]
B
So I think the American style. I think the one thing that we have that's different than all the other countries, I mean, everyone had farmers and everyone had workers, but it was how they dress, basically, is what we're. What we're going for, where, you know, where the American worker was a farmer, a rancher, or a carpenter. Right. And so he wore all those things that we were. We've been talking about, you know, denim, chambray, plaid, flannel, Carhartt. You can go to Europe. And now we want the French workwear, you know.
- [30:34]
A
Holy.
- [30:35]
B
That's cool stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. And you go to Japan and you look at the Passion Borough. You know, again, I'm probably calling it the wrong thing, but you know what I'm talking.
- [30:45]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [30:46]
B
Sort of in. In a way that almost defines those countries is to what. What their workers, what the Peasants were wearing.
- [30:54]
A
Right. What is that fascination? I mean, what, what's the best that you can say of why we all want to look like, like why people. Why the Cardhart craze and why people want to look like workwear? Is it the hero notion of the everyday worker or the blue collar integrity?
- [31:11]
B
The thing I, I noticed from growing up in Ralph Lauren stores and Ralph Lauren customers and, and, you know, and, and Ralph himself, you, you've got, you've got, you know, a class of people that can basically have whatever they want if they're cool. They don't want to look that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [31:33]
A
It's almost like how many wealthy women are starving and. But they, they could have all the food in the world, but they're choosing to look like they're suffering almost.
- [31:45]
B
Right, right, right. No, I, no, in fact, there was a very, very wealthy woman I, I worked in, in Dallas for five years, but that was our first Ralph Lauren store. I worked there for five years before New York. And there was a very wealthy woman who I loved to death. And she would come in quite often, and one of her looks that she wore quite often was almost like a past the knee fur coat, very simple polo coat, you know, not too fancy, with a white T shirt and blue jeans and penny loafers, you know. You know, I think that the wealthy people that have style can just get away with it. Just wear, you know, put things together. You know, I'm going to run to the store. Oh, it's cold. I'll throw my mink coat on, you know. And now, and now they're trying that. Look, they're trying to wear sweatpants and jogging clothes with fur coats, you know what I mean? They're trying to mix that, they're trying to mix that thing up.
- [32:46]
A
Well, how'd you guys meet? How did you and Ralph, what's the chance encounter?
- [32:50]
B
It was a very small company, really. The people that I kind of grew up around at college, working, working in that college store, which we were one of the first places that carried Ralph Lauren. It was, you know, the early 70s. And he ended up coming out to, to the shore once, and then I ended up in Dallas. After I did my surfing and skiing, I ended up in Dallas. And in fact, the guy who opened the Dallas store I had worked with at Woody's, so. And he was sort of my mentor through this whole thing. He ended up in New York. He actually got a hold of me, you know, again, landline, which was pretty hard to do back in those days. Get a hold of somebody, but he somehow got a hold of me in Colorado, and so what are you gonna do? Spend the rest of your life as a ski bum? I said, yeah, yeah, I wish I was better at it, but. So anyway, I ended up in Dallas and. And Ralph came there probably at least three times. And so by the time I got to New York in 84, this company was still very small. There was what's very small? I remember the first summer we went on a company picnic to someplace upstate and we all got on a school bus and there were empty seats. So that. Okay, that's how. That's how small it was.
- [34:14]
A
Okay, gotcha. Yeah. I mean, I like picturing a world where Ralph Lauren for a second is small because I'm like, it's been so my whole life. It's. It's always been an icon.
- [34:26]
B
It was a very, very small company where you basically knew everybody. Wow. And I think when I got to the this, the office was on the fourth floor and the sixth floor of a brownstone. You know, if, you know brownstones in New York, they're not that big. And by the time I left, I think we had like two more floors and. And then they finally left and moved to a bigger building. You know, you got to know him because there wasn't that many of you. You worked, you worked together and so.
- [34:57]
A
From the ground floor, huh?
- [35:00]
B
Yeah. What's that?
- [35:01]
A
From the ground floor? It sounds like, I mean, really early on. Oh, really?
- [35:03]
B
Yeah. I mean, he started in 67, and I started. Started selling it in 71. So I've been around for most of it. Yeah, gotcha. But as far as the, the New York thing, I had a job under a guy named Jeff Walker and creative. He sort of created the creative position. And we did displays and showrooms and Bloomingdale's, and we eventually opened the mansion on 72nd street and got bigger, you know, but that, that's when the growth really started happening. And that was probably around 88, 87, 88, 89.
- [35:45]
A
What do you imagine, Ralph, seeing in you, like, how you're being valued that early on at this company? What kind of relationship is happening there? Is the long term relationship that you've been able to have now over five decades, is it represented in that early time or is it more of a long term cultivation?
- [36:09]
B
There were a lot more people that were much more important than I was, that's for sure. Still.
- [36:13]
A
Still.
- [36:14]
B
Still are.
- [36:14]
A
Okay.
- [36:15]
B
Yeah. I was a pimple on that. You know what? You know what I mean? But I had the cool Job. What was your title? I started off as Assistant Director of Creative Services, later became the Director of Creative. But again, you know, the, the one thing that, that the Ralph, I think, invented, I'm pretty sure, you know, at least he reinvented it from somewhere, was this whole lifestyle gig. Right. And I think now it's rampant. Everyone builds their, their lines by lifestyle.
- [36:54]
A
Yeah.
- [36:54]
B
You know, and I, I, I. When Double L first started, it wasn't as lifestyle as it is now. It was just about being cool. Right. Mixing together, you know.
- [37:04]
A
Yeah.
- [37:04]
B
Wearing, you know, motorcycle boots and khakis and freaking, you know.
- [37:08]
A
Yeah.
- [37:10]
B
You know, like, don't, don't be so rigid. Right. So, you know, like, I, and I think that that's one of the. I, I think the customer now knows he doesn't have to dress like a cowboy to wear a cowboy shirt, you know, but, but there used to be a trepidation, I think. Well, wait a minute. That's for cowboys. You know, that's for army guy. You know, I'm not, I don't, like, I'm not an army guy, so. But, but the lifestyle thing, the great way to pull it off is you, you have to bring the right chair in the room, the right picture in the room, the right, you know, build the right room.
- [37:50]
A
Right.
- [37:50]
B
I started kind of doing that in windows way back.
- [37:55]
A
Right.
- [37:55]
B
Way back in this. In. When I was in, In Manhattan, Kansas. Is, is. I, I was a frustrated, not very good artist, but I could put together clothes really well. I had a great eye. I had a great color and, and sort of natural style. You know, I wasn't too intimidated, I guess. I had confidence, I guess. And so for me, spending the day in the windows was much better than waiting on customers.
- [38:24]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [38:25]
B
I wasn't necessarily trained to do that. I just. It needed to be done, and so I'll do it. Yeah. Okay. This is fun. And that's how I really got to know Mr. Lorne is, you know, working on his. On, on projects and then working on his own. His own stuff. And, and, you know, I think the thing I got out of that is, is more knowledge, more understanding, more love or fashion than ever. And it's almost like I kind of knew the rules and then I kind of knew it's cool to break the rules. But I think I really was brought along all, you know, through, you know, Ralph Lauren. I don't know that I would have done any of this on my own. Does that make sense?
- [39:18]
A
Yeah, completely.
- [39:19]
B
I would always have my own personal style, but I think I just learned so much more and now appreciate so much more.
- [39:26]
A
Are you spiritually. What are you spiritually inspired by?
- [39:33]
B
I guess nature, maybe. I'm sitting here watching it snow right now. I can usually see the beach. I can't see the beach. I feel better usually outside than inside. So that must mean I like to be in touch with nature, I guess. Right.
- [39:53]
A
Nice, man.
- [39:54]
B
I lived in New York for probably five years, and then I commuted there for another 30 some years, you know, 40 all together, I guess. And it's. When I lived there, I always had a garden or a roof, a place where I could get outside. And growing up in Kansas, I think that was one of my biggest fears about going to New York, is how do you live in this little box, you know, and you hit the street and you got to be on, you know, there is no outside safe zone. Right.
- [40:35]
A
Yeah.
- [40:35]
B
I lived on the Upper east side for quite a while. And, like, the.
- [40:39]
A
Unlike the park, so you would ground yourself in nature. And I mean, and this is. This is a thing that's been ongoing in your life.
- [40:45]
B
Life. Right, right.
- [40:47]
A
Where does it actually start to really take off for Ralph Lauren? Like, where it's just like, okay, this is insane.
- [40:54]
B
He went public somewhere in the mid-90s, and I would say that's when it started really going up to that point, it was his money. And another guy had a little, you know, had like 12%, you know, or something. So, you know, I. I got in trouble for spending too much money all the time. Yeah, me too. Hey, dude, it takes a lot of polo shirts to pay for that.
- [41:25]
A
Yeah, right.
- [41:27]
B
And we. Everyone was scared when it went public that it was all going to change. But I. I don't. I don't think it really changed
- [41:37]
A
as
- [41:37]
B
far as RL I don't think RL really took off until fairly recently, to be honest. Wow. We're doing a lot more with the advertising now and Instagram and all that stuff.
- [41:53]
A
Yeah.
- [41:54]
B
But it was a very hidden. Ralph didn't want to advertise it. He, you know, he wanted to be more of a, you know, cool people will find it kind of situation.
- [42:03]
A
Wow, man, that's awesome. That's so awesome to have, like, to have experimental zones that you set up for people to find. When you're as successful as Ralph has been, you can do things like that. Like, hey, I want to set up the zone where if people are cool enough to find it, they do, you know. I love that. That is great.
- [42:24]
B
Yeah. It was all. It was almost like his, you know, he's he often said, I'm your best customer, so you better please me, you know, like, okay, you know, so. So, yeah, it was always like, like, you know, not that you didn't have personal pride, but you got a feel good reward, you know, when you please him.
- [42:44]
A
Right. Nice.
- [42:46]
B
When you pleased him. And it was something you really, really loved and really cared about and really believed in. You were much more sure of yourself.
- [42:53]
A
Right?
- [42:54]
B
That makes sense.
- [42:54]
A
Yeah. Yeah, man, totally.
- [42:56]
B
I think the one thing that happened with a lot of artistic people and if I can call myself that, please. There is a lot of doubt, there is a lot of questioning, there is a lot of, how does this look? How does that look? How does. What am I going to wear here? What am I going to do that? You know, like. And I. And we were talking lifestyle. Yeah, I would dress. I would dress different. I would dress the same, but in a more of an English way in London, you know, and the same but more Western way when I was in Colorado or New Mexico and more of a surfing kind of way when I went to California. You know what I mean? Not drastic, but. All right, I'm not going to wear hunting boots in California. I'm going to wear flip flops or tennis shoes.
- [43:47]
A
Right? Yeah. Was there ever a phase in your Bill Myerness, the image that everybody already has of you? People have known you as this figure in fashion and was there ever a phase where you were like. Like, I want to throw that guy away. Like all of how I'm seen as being the vintage guy and all that stuff. It. Was there ever a. Could you have a pocket in your life where you're experimenting with not being that and go a whole other direction or something? Like something just totally left field? Did you ever have that phase?
- [44:21]
B
Well, I. I never really got that far away, but I would say in the late 80s, you know, you're being influenced by people like Bill Collins and. And Eric Clapton and stuff. And they're kind of wearing these baggy pleated pants and, you know, these really loose, you know. So I said my interpretation of that, I guess, and a lot less jeans. You know, I probably have come back to jeans a lot in the last. And luckily they all still fit, so I can't afford them now.
- [44:58]
A
Man, that's awesome. Them. Who have you gotten to assist creatively that have influenced you? And it's kind of mind blowing that you're like showing them something about cool. Do you have any stories like that?
- [45:13]
B
Because of Ralph Lauren? I've. I've got to wait on a lot of cool people. And I realized that they're just people and they, they think I'm cool.
- [45:23]
A
Right.
- [45:23]
B
You know?
- [45:23]
A
Right.
- [45:24]
B
I, you know, so it's for maybe right around 9 11. My office was in the back of the, of the West Broadway store and, you know, the hub of soho, if you will. So I got to meet a lot of, a lot of my, you know, I remember talking to Sam Shepard, like, wow. You know, and he, he wants to hear about me.
- [45:53]
A
That's cool, man.
- [45:54]
B
He wants to hear about vintage.
- [45:56]
A
What?
- [45:56]
B
You know, tell me about it. You know, I'm not going, dude. Yeah, no, I, I, I got to, you know, you know, wait on Bruce several times. He's a huge, huge fan of vintage. Huge fan of Double rl. And I'd say he's the coolest guy I've ever met.
- [46:17]
A
Wow.
- [46:18]
B
Outside of Ralph, man.
- [46:20]
A
That's awesome.
- [46:21]
B
Yeah.
- [46:22]
A
How do you deal with attention?
- [46:24]
B
The people I met, I, I wasn't running up to them with, hey, man, can you sign your autograph? It was just sort of more by chance. And I felt like they were just as thrilled to meet me as I was to meet them. Not trying to sound egotistical. I'm just saying that's why they're cool. That's why Ralph's cool. I mean, they're interested in people. They listen to people, they, they see people. They under, you know, it, you know, they have compassion. Right. And they have, you know, these questions about, you know, it's, it's cool. For me, that's a lesson that, you know, should, should be an easy, you know, but it, but it is hard to stop and to listen. To stop and. Wait a minute. Okay. No, no. What does this text really say? You know, just like, like, slow down, man.
- [47:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:21]
B
And that's probably why I even need to be in nature more. So I do slow down more because that's, because I think that gets you so much further when you're paying attention. And it shouldn't be hard to pay
- [47:34]
A
attention when you get attention for being who you are. And there's this kind of myth around you. And I, I know that you probably laugh at that. And you're somebody that I've come to know just doesn't take himself that seriously and at the same time knows your value. And I think it's refreshing to hear you say they were as excited to meet me. I think that that's true because of the spirit of collaboration, the openness and the spirit of collaboration that some people who are some of our heroes have and you get in their radius and they include you immediately. And it's nice to find that behind the curtain. It's always nice to find that. But with your myth, it sounds like the mystery around you sounds like it's just that you're finding a way to care for yourself outside of the hoopla and the. And how much is going on. Like it sounds like people's myths end up being just self care looking like it's some sort of mystery. But it's like you're just caring for yourself, remaining private and not getting all involved in the drama of what people want you to.
- [48:46]
B
Thank you. The. All the stuff that happened recently blew up on the Internet that I didn't even think about.
- [48:55]
A
The New York Times article.
- [48:57]
B
Yeah, there was actually two, two New York Times articles and GQ and all this, all this stuff that, you know, Cameron did an amazing job of getting, of getting all this attention. I just, I didn't, I wasn't really anticipating it and sort of like hid under the bed as well as I could. When, when you called the other day for the 18th time about doing a podcast and then, and then said it wasn't going to be a video podcast, I'm saying, okay, well that's cool. You know, I, I won't see that posted all over the freaking Internet. Right. And get all embarrassed again. But I mean, I think, I think everybody would be lying if they didn't have this sort of like show off, you know, look at me, you know, listen to my story. Listen to what's wrong with me, what, you know, listen to what happened to me. I mean, everyone has this built in thing in their personality that, that, you know, it is all about them. So I think the more that you in your life can train yourself to have it be about everyone that you care about and not about you. Like we were talking about listening, you know, listening to those people and learning. I think that's, that's where the world will be a better place for sure. Absolutely.
- [50:29]
A
So there's a balance there to walk. It sounds like you enjoy like when you're honest with yourself, there's in part that you enjoy being like recognized for what you bring.
- [50:39]
B
But yeah, I mean I really feel it was totally. I, I don't feel like I'm deserving of, of it. But you know, obviously there's a little piece of you that went, wow, look at, look at me. You know. But one of the comments on one of the many Instagram posts, a, a dear friend, you know, wrote, well, we, we all, you know, good for Doug. He's getting. He's getting the attention finally. And, and we all owe him a little bit on our own little way. But frankly. But frankly, I don't think he gives a. And, and. And I think that was it. I think that was it. I. Ben Affleck, who, you know, I'm sure is a cool guy. I don't know him. He. He basically said at the end of the day, who gives a. You know, and he's so right. I don't know.
- [51:39]
A
Is there anything you haven't done that you want to creatively or even just aspirationally in any way? Is there. Are there any. Some things left on the boxes to check?
- [51:51]
B
You know, thank God. I don't think there is. I mean, I feel like I did it. Yeah. You know, and, you know, I, I, you know, I can say there's lots of times I wish I would have had, you know, go back and do it again because, wow, if I only knew now what I knew, you know, But I, I don't really want to. I don't have any, you know, any, Any regrets at all or any. Anything. I felt left undone place. I've got to go see. So I just want to have a nice, comfortable, fun life.
- [52:30]
A
Awesome, man. You're doing it. I want to send some gratitude to my mother for, you know, you guys have known each other a long time and, and she's hitting her stride right now with.
- [52:41]
B
She's really is. She really is. I'm super proud of her. I, I think it's probably going on 40 years I've known your mom, and I remember walking into this cowboy show and everybody being about years older than me, at least, if not 50 years older than me. And there was Terry and Vicki, who were basically my age, and, and, And I didn't know anything about turquoise. I knew a little bit, but I probably thought I knew a lot. But I learned so much from your mom, and she's got the same style that I've got, which. That makes it easy, you know? Yeah.
- [53:24]
A
It's like I grew up at your house.
- [53:26]
B
Yeah. Yeah. You know, we. She was at the ranch with me a lot, and we spent a lot of time in Santa Fe together at all those. There used to be so many shows in Santa Fe. She's probably told you. I mean, I mean, I'd go out there for two weeks every. Busy. Every single day, night gallery openings and show openings, and it was insane. Be out of money by the first two or three days. But, you know, but you know, trying to figure out how can I make this last 20, 000 last.
- [53:59]
A
Right, right.
- [53:59]
B
It's almost like that era is way gone. I don't think it's ever coming back. But your mom, her website is amazing.
- [54:07]
A
Shout out to indianlodge road.com indianlodge road.com
- [54:12]
B
I'm on it every day.
- [54:13]
A
Yeah, she's such a badass. And she's still every day hunkered down, learning new things that everything new that she can learn. And she's become like one of the bigs in the deal.
- [54:25]
B
Right, Right. I think that, you know, the people who really, really love Native American jewelry, since a lot of different tribes, you know, Navajo, Hopi, Zuni, they all had this like an amazing design quality in their. In their work, both in their jewelry and their weavings and their. And it's almost like the older it is, the more modern looking it is. And it's. And it's just like, you know, when you come to it, don't know anything, you know, and you go, why is this so cool? You know, it's that simple, simple early stuff and. But there you. Your mom has been able to kind of keep that simple, integrity, beautiful. You know, what do you call it? Like, the quality is, is. Is much more important than the quantity.
- [55:23]
A
Completely. This outfit, before we go, I want to tell you that this is this completely. You know, I got the vintage polo yesterday at a shop in Ventura. These kids, they're like 20 years old and they opened this shop called Vintage on Main in Ventura. And I went in there and I. I knew I was sitting with you today and I saw this and I couldn' believe it.
- [55:45]
B
Perfect.
- [55:46]
A
Perfect vintage polo. And then I'm wearing some of Vicky's jewelry and then this hat I got the last time I was with you, actually at the Inspiration.
- [55:59]
B
Inspiration.
- [56:00]
A
Yeah. This guy makes.
- [56:01]
B
I was trying to figure that out. Oh yeah, I think I know the guy who made that.
- [56:04]
A
I bet you do. He's Japanese guy.
- [56:06]
B
Yeah, he's like more like my age, though.
- [56:09]
A
Totally. And he.
- [56:10]
B
Yeah, he. He does the same thing with military pants, flowers and peace signs and on there. I knew that guy. He's so good. I bought. I bought several real. You know, he also has like flight jackets. He was always big with flight jackets. But. But yeah, no, I. I remember again, probably in the early 90s when I was first starting my vintage, learning my way around, and I went to. Someone had told me about Jess Tart and I went to his warehouse up in Seattle Battle, and I'm Looking around and he's got piles and piles of everywhere, but there's a lot of Ralph Lauren. Am I going, dude, what are you doing collecting Ralph Lauren? He goes, what else are you going to collect from the 80s? I went, yeah, you're right. That's awesome.
- [57:03]
A
It becomes the article of the thing to start having a vintage relationship with. And it's a company that you're. You've been a part of since the beginning.
- [57:11]
B
Yeah, no, it. It seemed odd that he's like, collecting things that are in my back of my closet kind of stuff.
- [57:18]
A
Yeah. And tell everybody how the sale went. You were telling me yesterday, you know, you were selling recently, and that was all over the Interweb, too, but this big sale that you were doing of your whole collection, and it sold in something like an hour. Right? It was just.
- [57:31]
B
Yeah, no, and it wasn't really my whole collection. It would. Then I wouldn't even. I wouldn't even call it my collection. But, you know, I think I was telling you, and I've said this before, you know, I was. I was in New York every day. I was in. I was in. I was going to a lot of different, you know, openings and parties and dinners. And so I had, like, pretty extensive. I mean, I must. Had. I don't know how many tuxedos. I. I gave a lot of my clothes to the vintage department, so I'm not sure what. What I'm going to do yet. But anyway, the. I still have a lot more. That was just stuff that I said. I'm not wearing this. And it's like, really cool. And I think it'd be cool that someone else would have it rather than just rot in my closet, you know, and.
- [58:25]
A
Oh, I think the title was sensationalized by the. By the press saying, like, he's selling his whole collection and, like, come to us.
- [58:32]
B
Yeah, well, you know, you know, like, again, you know, Cameron's a good showman and he. And he got the job. You know, like I said, I. I had no idea I would even sell half of it. And I've been trying for years to figure out, should I take it to inspiration, should I take it to Brimfield, Should I, you know, put it online? And, you know, and. And Cameron basically talked me into, you know, we'll do. We'll do this. And it all sounded kind of good. And he showed me how many people, you know, reacted to our podcast and wow, okay, so. And we kind of kept it. Think it was 122 pieces. We. And we were worried that that was too much. We were worried that was too many pieces, that it was going to be boring, you know, so I might do it again. I could do it again. Wouldn't be as good as the first time. The sequel never is, right?
- [59:36]
A
Very rarely, really. Godfather, maybe?
- [59:39]
B
Yeah, no, that. That second restaurant never is like that first restaurant.
- [59:44]
A
That's true. Yeah.
- [59:45]
B
But. But there's definitely some cool stuff that I. That I particularly love that. That, again, I don't wear. So. Yeah, I don't know.
- [59:56]
A
You're gonna.
- [59:56]
B
Thank you for asking. It was. It was. It was definitely fun to do it where I pretty much hated every moment of it. I look back on it with. All right, that was pretty cool. That was fun.
- [60:08]
A
Yeah. That's awesome. And. And you're going to be at a show coming up in Glendale, California, right?
- [60:14]
B
Exactly. Bob Chat has a. His website is Vintage Productions. He's mostly known for military. Taught me pretty much, you know, the little bit I do know about military. Most of it I got from Bob. He has a big showroom in. In Long Beach, I think, and he's been doing a show for a while, and I. I think I was at the first two shows he did, and I haven't been there for probably two or three, so I'm anxious to see him and love vintage Rendevous.
- [60:53]
A
That's right, Vintage Rendevous.
- [60:55]
B
And it's in Glendale, I think. But definitely it's on if it's. It's. It's Valentine's weekend, so it shouldn't be too hard to find on the Internet.
- [61:05]
A
That's right.
- [61:07]
B
But no, it'll be.
- [61:08]
A
It.
- [61:09]
B
You know, it's. It's gotten a lot of. It's built up a lot from where. Where he started. And inspiration is more of an international. The best of the best of the best. I think the rendezvous is getting where it's the same.
- [61:27]
A
It's a great show.
- [61:28]
B
It's a great show. And I think it's. It's probably more of a buyer show, right? You know, maybe. Maybe a little less precious. I don't know.
- [61:36]
A
Yeah, it does feel that way, actually.
- [61:38]
B
Yeah. So we'll see.
- [61:40]
A
Yeah, that's. That's cool. What's one. Leave us with this. What's one fashion trend that you've tried that other people are able to pull off, that you just wish you could because you like the way it looks, but you haven't. Have never been able to make it work with your own get of.
- [61:57]
B
Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. Running shoes Me too.
- [62:13]
A
That's definitely one. Like, pulling off running shoes with vintage and, like, being that guy.
- [62:17]
B
I, I, you know, Ralph more than anybody is, you know, you see them with these high tech, cool running shoes.
- [62:25]
A
Oh.
- [62:26]
B
In fact, the first few times I'd see him, I would go, everything looks cool. But then he's got these lime green tennis shoes on, you know, like, whoa, what is that? But then you start getting. All right, it's kind of cool. It's kind of hip, that mix of stuff. Yeah. But I. I put him on. I just feel like they don't belong on my feet.
- [62:45]
A
Yeah, it's weird.
- [62:46]
B
I mean, I can see why everyone goes there. It's. They're comfortable, Right. But I don't know. Yeah, I'd rather. I think the Red Wings are much cooler than those Nikes.
- [62:58]
A
I. I totally, man. I'm. I'm with you. Yeah. Very similarly. Doug, man, thanks for sitting out the freeze with me today.
- [63:07]
B
Hey, yeah, no, I'm sitting there looking. I. I shoveled off the deck about an hour before we talked, and it's pretty much exactly where it was when I did that.
- [63:19]
A
Really?
- [63:20]
B
Already? Yeah. Okay, so.
- [63:21]
A
Right on.
- [63:23]
B
Anyway. Yeah, it's all fun.
- [63:25]
A
Yeah, totally. You look great, man. It's really great seeing you too, brother.
- [63:29]
B
Yeah, thanks, brother.