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Love Your Life Show: Personal Growth, Mindset, + Habits for Busy Moms
Caregiving without Guilt and Burnout
00:47:07
Do you ever feel guilty taking time to do something you enjoy? - Or have you ever said things like “I don’t have time for that” (and by that, you mean basic human needs, like you don’t have time to eat, to sleep, to pee?!?) -
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, warriors. It is me, Susie Pettit. And I am so glad that you are here today. If you have ever felt like you are holding up the sky for everyone else, you're maybe your aging parents, your kids, your job, your relationships, the economy, and you're just hoping maybe no one notices or maybe you're hoping that everybody notices, like someone suddenly does. Like it's like, hey, how is it going for you, Susie sweetheart? That sort of stuff. This episode is for you. Maybe you've heard of the sandwich generation. There's a lot of this going on. And today I am so excited because I'm talking to Jenny Lytle. She is a former hospice nurse with over 30 years of experience walking people through the end of life. And now she helps caregivers, people just like you and me, stop running on empty and start running, start reclaiming their energy without the guilt. I just wanted to make sure because she is still a nurse. So I, when I just said she's a former nurse, like, take that back. She's still practicing. She's still at it. She's still helping people every single day. So thank you, Jenny, for not only doing that and also coming on the show. This conversation is just, it's honest and healing. We talk about my recent experience in the hospital and how my husband is a caregiver navigated some of that. We talk about how to take care of other people without losing yourself in the process. Why self care is not selfish. It is not. Even if it feels like it is sometimes, warriors, it is not. And how to stop letting go or start letting go of the pressure to do it all. So grateful that Jenny chose to take some time with us today to help us. And I can't wait for you to listen. And this is a really helpful, helpful episode.
- [01:54]
B
Hi, this is the Love youe Life show with Susie Pettit, certified life and wellness coach. Join Susie as she helps you with your wellness and mindset so you can live a life you love. Let's go, warriors.
- [02:10]
A
And welcome to the Love youe Life show. Jenny, I am so excited that you are here. We talked a little bit just now before getting on camera about how much I wanted you to come on the show and I, I wanted to just share personally with the listeners and you. You know, one of my big intents to coming on is that I had my own health scare just a couple months ago where I ended up in the hospital. I guess it was over the last six months. I've been in the hospital twice and have had, you know, been ill myself and needed a. A lot of care from my husband. And it was, you know, sort of one of my first times noticing the. The. I don't know what the word is drama or the. The situation where, like, you know, from my own. I needed care and felt horrendous and also had a husband who was the super concerned about me and wanted to care for me and yet, like, needed to have his own boundaries to still be able to take care of his basic human needs and mental health or else he would have caved too. And we were only in that situation for a short period of time, so I was grateful that that situation passed relatively quickly. And yet once I saw that dynamic, I'm like, oh, wow, like, I need to have Jenny on the show because I now I see it everywhere. So, you know, we had initially been back and forth talking about how to help people in the sandwich generation with their aging parents, with, you know, still caring for young kids sometimes in the house. Sometimes they're young kids who are having all sorts of, you know, their own drama. They're out of the house, but they're still asking for mom or dad for help. And then I see this where I am just like, oh, yeah, no, this isn't just happening for, you know, moms age 48. This. This is happening if you have a neurotypical kid or if your partner has a. Or sibling or friend has a long, you know, chronic pain and that sort of stuff. So I wanted to. I wanted to come on and have you here and can you just help listeners know a little bit about, you know, how. Why Susie wants Jenny to come on the show, why you're a good person to talk to about this? How does your experience and your experience with your mom and your life lead you to being so helpful with people in this area?
- [04:25]
B
Awesome. Well, sure. Thank you. First of all, so thank you so much, Susie, for. For allowing me to come on here and share with your audience. And I'm glad that things are going much better with you than they were. And yes, it's just. It is. It's something that. That we don't talk about enough in. In all of the. The struggles that caregivers go through and the, you know, the difficulty in balancing all of those different roles and expectations. And so for me, I have. I've been a nurse for 30 years now, which still seems unbelievable, but, you know, time flies.
- [05:02]
A
How does that happen when you're only 28?
- [05:04]
B
I know that's what I say all the time. You know, I'm like, how Are my kids, like, older than I am now?
- [05:10]
A
So weird?
- [05:11]
B
Yes, but I, I really became more passionate about, about stress relief and, and helping caregivers see the need for self care. When I myself went through some burnout and you know, that was a long process to, to come out of that. And then my mom, who was also a nurse and you know, a caregiver for everybody but herself, she, and she had some, she had chronic illnesses, but she ended up passing away suddenly of a ruptured brain aneurysm. And I believe that a lot of that was due to a lack of self care. And so that, you know, those two things really sparked a deep passion in me for, for helping others in this way. Because as you know, caregivers, whether it be, you know, other nurses, you know, we're talking professionally or people in, in their own lives, you know, parents and, and people who, like you said, are in that sandwich generation where we're trying to, you know, take care of, of everybody, it can be a challenge to fit ourselves into that and especially when we feel like, well, it's selfish to do that. You know, I've got all these other things to do. And so that's, you know, that's my, that's my stance is that self care isn't selfish. And as a matter of fact, it's the only way that we can continue to care for others long term and live our best lives. And so, you know, I love, I love what you're doing with. Love your life. And it's. Yeah, yeah. Because it is, it's important to not just not just go through all of the, the shoulds, all of the things that we feel like we need to be doing, but, but really find time to, to live and love and enjoy our lives.
- [07:00]
A
Yeah. Which is incredibly difficult. You know, it's incredibly difficult. I think if we have, you know, totally healthy parents and no one around us has chronic illness, our society is set, you know, a patriarchal society is that like women are here to serve others. So even, even if nothing else is going on, you know, the listener listening, like, I want them to listen, like if they don't have someone chronically ill in their life or they don't have a parent who's needing their support right now, I want them to listen too and see where this shows up in their life because we are programmed to put our needs last and that, that is really societally acceptable and then add in these other things that are going on. You know, so we've spent what, you know, 30, 40 years thinking of everyone else's needs, everyone else before us. And then we have something happen in our lives where we are caring for more people or, you know, again, we're sort of putting our life on hold to care for everyone else. Like that I wrote down. You said, like, you know, caregivers care for everyone, but your mother was a caregiver and care for everyone but herself. I think that'll ring true for many people. And so how do you get like. I guess let's just start there. Like a little more. I think we need a little more of a like. Okay, but why. Why is self care important? Why do I need to bring myself into the equation? Why don't I just keep doing what society tells me I should do to be the good girl and to continue on? You know, that feels comfortable to me, just sacrificing myself, right? It's like, what do they say, like, setting yourself on fire to keep everyone else warm. Like, I don't. Like, just keep doing that, Jenny. It seems to be working right well.
- [08:41]
B
And sometimes it does seem to be working. And, and I think that it can for a short of time. But, you know, when we, when we get in those patterns and again, I agree, it's something that, that we've been raised to believe. You know, I mean, that's something that's been passed down from generation to generation of. That's what, that's what women do. And really there's a lot of men who are, who are kind of in that circumstance now too, where you just, you really put everyone else's needs above yourself. And I'm not, you know, I'm not suggesting that people be selfish and ignore the needs of people around them. But it's, it's that, you know, it's that opposite thing where you have to take care of yourself in order to be able to take care of others. You know, it's the whole oxygen mask thing. I just got home from Texas today, and because of some airline issues, and we were on five flights total, so. So I got to see the oxygen mask demonstration a lot of times, and whenever I do, I just always think, you know, how it. It's so counterintuitive, you know, when they tell you, you know, if something happens, you know, if you're with small children or, or, you know, you need to, you need to put your own oxygen mask on first. And, and we think, well, well, of course I've got to help these other people because they can't help themselves. But, you know, if we don't have that oxygen Mask on, you know, literally or figuratively, then we're not going to be in a position to be able to care for them.
- [10:08]
A
So, and that is so important because I do think, you know, back to like that it works, but it only works for a certain amount of time. And I find most of us, that's a lot of what our like midlife crisis are about. That just like, wait a frigging minute. What kind of life am I living? Like I'm living, you know, other people's rule books. And, and we, we talk about that a lot on the Love youe Life school and I guess I just want people here to start. It's not looking at this. Self care is selfish. What you're saying is it's not like, you know, we go from taking care of their needs exclusively and ignoring ours, which is where a lot of us have been and were raised, to only taking care of our needs and not caring for theirs at all. Like, well then screw you. Like you're on your own. It's, I always say it's just like a sort of a reckoning of the balance. And it's like let's, let's consider both of our needs and maybe some compromises need to be met but, or need to be made. But like it is a more equalizing, at least bringing your needs to the table is where. So what do you see are some of the signs of someone who maybe isn't taking care of themselves. And also I, you know, that the self care might be needed but. And also what did you see in your mom? Because you. That was quite striking to me that you thought, you know, her own lack of self care was, is partially why she died, if not.
- [11:36]
B
Yes. So, you know, one of the things that I see first of all is feeling like, you know, feeling like I don't have time to take care of myself, you know, and that can be very basic things like I don't have time to sleep. I don't have time to. You know, when you don't have time to sleep, like something, something isn't going well and you know, especially when you're talking. Right. I mean sleep is so fundamental to everything. I mean that's when our body repairs that, you know, like from a cellular level. That's when everything gets better and it just gives our, our minds time to heal and repair too. And when we ignore something as basic as sleep, then there, there can be, you know, catastrophic issues down the line in addition to just the ones, you know, that we feel then where we're Thinking less. You know, there's, there's studies that show that, you know, lack of sleep is like driving drunk and, but then we have people who are making, you know, important decisions while they're in those sleep deprived states because they feel like they don't have time for that.
- [12:38]
A
Well, also, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I also another study that showed that like part of why we're seeing so much Alzheimer's and dementia in women is because of the lack of sleep. Like when they study women's brains, it's back from the lack of sleep back when they, you know, were younger. So it, it does like, maybe it impacts us in that moment. We're like, no, I can power through with my fancy coffee, but.
- [12:58]
B
Right.
- [12:59]
A
It is. Yeah. So lack of not having time to sleep, not having time to pee, not having time to eat, like, yes, these are basic human needs. If, right. If we are caring for someone and we're like, no, you know, I don't have care. Time to feed you, like we would see that. That's a little odd. But I know the person listening has said those things to herself. I've said, right.
- [13:20]
B
Oh, I have too. I mean, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a nurse and that's one of the things, you know, a lot of nurses are like, oh, you know, I've worked a 12 hour shift and you know, didn't have time to pee. Well, you know, the older you get, the more challenging that is.
- [13:31]
A
Yes, well, and you're in the health profession. I mean, that's always exactly. To me, it's like, what are you talking about? You know, that's not healthy.
- [13:38]
B
Right. Yeah. And that is one thing I am, you know, I am well hydrated, which unfortunately does mean that I'm going to the bathroom a lot. But, but I know that I feel better that way and I try to prioritize sleep as well because again, I know I'm somebody that needs a pretty good amount of sleep. Unfortunately, you know, I wish I needed less sleep, but I don't. And, and, and I work on call, you know, I mean, I work night sometimes so that my sleep is interrupted. And so I get the, the challenges with that. Back to what you were asking about my mom. Yes. So with her sleep was a big one. You know, she always felt like she, you know, oh, well, I don't have time to sleep. I've got all these things to do. And this was as she had, she had always been that way to a certain degree because she was a single Mom. And when I was younger, you know, worked. She had worked a couple of jobs when I was growing up, and then was a. A convenience store manage years. And so she worked very long shifts with that, you know, covering everybody else. And then we went to nursing school together when I got out of high school. And so then she was working, you know, some nursing shifts and. And different shifts the way that went. And then she ended up working at a factory before she went on disability. But. But throughout all of that, her sleep was. You know, her sleep was messed up, her diet was horrible. Um, smoked like a freight train. You know, there were just. There were so many. So many things, and. But she would have done anything for anybody else. And. And that was what was. Was so frustrating, you know, and really, her. Her mental health deteriorated, too. And I think that, you know, part of that. I mean, she had multiple sclerosis, which, you know, which does affect, you know, which can affect, you know, the brain and. And thought processes and stuff like that. But I really believe that so much of it was just the fact that she just didn't take care of herself in any way, because she, you know, she would stay up all night, and this is, you know, when she was. She wasn't working, but she was, you know, maybe trying to connect different people. You know, she was very involved with, like, free Facebook groups, and she'd see, you know, that somebody had a need for something, you know, and especially if.
- [15:56]
A
It was kids or something other people need. Yeah, right.
- [15:59]
B
And so then she'd try to, you know, connect them with all these other people. And she was. She was so caring and so loving, and, you know, I. I want. I want to be that part of her, but. But she definitely neglected herself. And. And that part, you know, it makes me sad, and it also. It does make me a little bit angry because I feel like, you know, if you would have taken better care of yourself, you might have still been here or at least been here longer. She's been gone almost seven years now. But.
- [16:32]
A
Well, I just. Can I pause you there? Because that's super to hear, I think. And, you know, you're a situation and I'm sorry. And that it. It is.
- [16:41]
B
Thank you.
- [16:42]
A
Hard to think that, like, oh, my gosh, like, if you had cared for yourself differently, mom, you might have had many more years here. And that. That is sad and tinge with that angry. And I guess some of that also for us, as we're spinning around, taking care of everyone else's needs and everyone else's concerns, to just notice you know, like, sometimes the people may not be asking us for these things at the level that we're doing them. And what is the consequence for us is we usually feel resentful. We feel pissy, pissy. We feel like, oh, my God, no one understands everything I do. And then how does that show up on the other person? I remember this happening with me that I said something to, you know, one of my sons. Well, don't you understand? Like, you know what, I went to. To get you these socks. And he's just like, I didn't freaking ask for the socks. Like, what do you even do it? What are you talking about? And I would really rather not have you in this mood and, you know, slamming my snack down and be sockless. Then it's like. And so some of that awareness of, like, just us sort of snapping ourselves out of this bubble, thinking that what we're doing and spinning and doing for everyone else is helpful for us or them, because it's not. It really is not. And so, yeah, so this self care, you know, I, I really want listeners to start to. It's bigger than a podcast conversation. You know, podcasts are a great place to sort of when you hear something and you're like, oh, where am I feeling maybe a little guilt when I take care of myself? You know, I don't have anyone yet that I'm taking care of other than maybe kids or, you know, I mean, women are always going to feel like they're taking care of someone, but. But maybe have an aging parent or a chronically ill, you know, spouse or sibling or something. But where are you feeling guilty and where are you doing this like that? You don't have time for yourself, you don't have time for a workout, or you don't have time to investigate what you might want to be doing with your life. Where are you living someone else's lives instead of your own? Yes. Let's start, you know, just being brave enough to dig in there. I, I want to talk to the person who is caring for someone, though, who does have someone in front of them, whether, you know, it is the aging parent or the chronically ill spouse or sibling. How do you help them with the guilt or the. That feeling, you know, setting the boundaries, taking care of someone else without losing themselves. How do you help?
- [19:15]
B
Well, and, you know, I. Something. When you, when you were saying that, I thought, you know, I don't normally say this this way, but I think it's important too, as someone who is trying to figure out how to care for themselves. To not add in guilt over doing that wrong too, or not doing that enough. Because, you know, I think we just, it's so easy to feel like we're not doing enough in whatever it is that we're doing, whether it's at home, at work, you know, whatever it is, it's, it's never quite enough. And so with. Whether it's with caring for the person you're, or people that you're caring for or caring for yourself, you know, a little bit can go a long way. It's, it's feeling out, it's figuring out what it is that, that you really need most. And it may be, you know, maybe you're somebody who, okay, you have to do a little bit of caregiving, which still can feel like a whole lot. You know, I'm not minimizing that, but maybe you're needing to, you know, help out with someone maybe a couple times a week or you know, an hour or so a day, or maybe it's something where, I mean, that's like, that's your full time job and maybe in addition to your regular, you know, full time job. And so there may be just. You feel like there really isn't any time for you. Then it's even more important to, to just figure out those little bitty things that you can do. You know, sleep, of course, is one of them. You know, if there's, if there's ways that, that you can maybe get some help or trade off with somebody or you know, put, put together a, a schedule of other family members that, that potentially can help with that where you can get some uninterrupted sleep asking for help. And I know that some people don't have, I mean they're like legitimately is not anybody. So I'm not, you know, I'm not saying that. Oh, it's just easy. Just ask somebody for help. Paid caregivers, that adds up quickly. So, you know, that's something definitely not that everybody can, can afford. But if you're somebody who just just doesn't want to bother other people. Yeah, then, you know, then, then maybe just reaching out because sometimes people are willing to help, they just don't know how to.
- [21:40]
A
Well, and even that like that thought, like, you know, there's no one that can help me. I would have listeners, you know, they're familiar with the thumb and I would have them push back on that thought and just be like, well, what if there was? Because there are, you know, what if, what if there's a university near you and they have kids that are like, hey, we want volunteer hours for home. You know, maybe you don't have the finances or you don't have. I think we always want to push back on those thoughts that are making us feel horrendous. And if we still are like, no, I've gone through all the thinking, Susie, and I am the one. What I'm hearing from you. And I just want to emphasize this with the listeners or two things. One, to. To really have for the caregiver to decide for themselves what is enough. To have it come back to them, not have it be the other person that's deciding what's enough, but for them to decide what's enough. And then also the second thing is, like, what that person needs most. And I. I guess I want to use my personal example here because this is what my husband did. And it was really helpful because I was in the hospital for an extended period of time. I didn't like the hospital food. And so one of the things he was doing was so nicely bringing me lettuce so that I could order my, like, protein. I mean, the warriors know I get, like, my protein, my healthy oil and my produce. And so he was bringing in the fresh produce every day. And he had drawn this line where he's like, as long as my wife has her fresh produce, like, I've got her.
- [23:07]
B
Her.
- [23:08]
A
You know, and there were, you know, other things too. There was coffee or, you know, whatever, but again, just time with him. But he just sort of was like, okay, this is my enough. And some days I'm going to stay there for longer periods of time because that works for me and my mental capacity to be, you know, in this room with all this other stuff going on and other times that's too much for me. And I'm speaking for my husband here. And I'm going to, you know, I've done I enough and what do I need? Okay, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to go home and take care of my needs. And that worked really well for us. And I can't.
- [23:40]
B
And.
- [23:40]
A
And it. I guess what I want to just sort of get into, any caregivers who are listening head, is that I, as the patient, even though I am a life coach and I. This is just six months, two months ago, whatever, I'm very aware of not being codependent. I would have taken everything he had to give. I would have sucked in every minute of his time. And, you know, why are you not here when I'm like, in the middle of the night when they're waking me up to take my blood pressure. Like, I would have been like, sure, just sit there, you know? I mean, hopefully something would have come in. But I was very much, like, spinning in my own thing, so I needed. It was very helpful, too, for me and our relationship, for him to have that line and to say, you know, like, yeah, okay, and here's your lettuce. And now I'm. I'm going home for the night. And that was really helpful. So sort of that, like, not getting swayed. I'm sort of picturing like, a. A raging river, you know, and for the caregiver to not just get, like, jump in that raging river and have that take you, but more to be standing on the side and. And knowing and standing in their power of what they need. I need my sleep. I need this. And then acting on that and having that be. Because then it. Like, when you decide it for yourself, then the guilt isn't as severe. I have found.
- [24:59]
B
Absolutely. And there's not. There's not as much resentment either way. When you. When you're able to know, okay, I'm doing what I need to do to take care of me, and I'm doing what I can to take care of you too. Then. Then that. That helps to not have that. Just those feelings of frustration and helplessness and. And that lead to resentment when. When you just feel like, okay, I can't. I can't do it all. And that's. Right. I mean, we can't do it all. Right?
- [25:29]
A
We can't do it all. And I would be interested. Have him come in. I'm like, I'd be interested to know if he felt resentful, because I think the way he set it up, I'm hoping that he didn't. I for sure didn't. And I guess this is important to speak to too, is that. That there were moments when I did feel maybe disappointed that he wasn't there. But again, that's. That's. That's fine. I am. I like an emotional adult enough that I'm like, no, it makes sense. I'm disappointed. This is someone that I love. I'm going through a tough time. It would be nice if I had someone sort of stuck to my side, like Gu. But because this is hard to bear. And did I use that as a weapon in the relationship?
- [26:04]
B
No.
- [26:05]
A
And that's more of a sign of this relationship. So I guess for people when they're like, but what if my mom's lonely? Or, what if my Mom's disappointed or what if my so and so. It's like those are normal human emotions that, you know, emotionally mature adults can feel. And if they're not emotionally mature, that's okay. But it's not your fault, again, that we don't want to override those boundaries and just keep showing up just because Susie might be disappointed. Like, okay, right.
- [26:31]
B
And those are definitely patterns that it's easy for. You know, a lot of. A lot of people are just. They have those. Those patterns from childhood, you know, especially when it comes to parents who, you know, do kind of keep on the guilt when. When you're not there all the time. But. But just knowing that if that's your. If. If that's your relationship dynamic, if it's always been that way, then it may always be that way. But that doesn't mean that you have to keep trying to, you know, if you keep trying to change something that you've never been able to change before, you know, the only thing that you really can control in that situation is your reaction to that and those boundaries that you set and just be, you know, be very clear and loving that. Hey, you know, this is. I want to be here for you. I, you know, I'm here to help you with these things and be here during these times, but I've got, you know, I've got other obligations and other things that I need to take care of for myself. And, you know, that doesn't mean that people are always going to be happy with those boundaries. A lot of times people aren't, especially in the very beginning, responsible for those feelings. Yeah, right, Right. But. But being able to. To do that is a way that we can continue to. To be able to help and. And serve in some capacity.
- [27:45]
A
So what would you say to the listener that's like, oh, my gosh, yes, this is me. Like, I'm so resentful. I'm so burnt out. I'm exhausted. Or maybe that's too strong for them because sometimes people are always like, no, I'm good. This is it.
- [27:56]
B
Right? I'm fine.
- [27:57]
A
I'm fine, I'm fine.
- [27:58]
B
Just busy.
- [27:59]
A
Like, yeah, I have no life. Like, I have no. Like, there's no part of my 24 hours where I am doing, you know, thinking about my future, my, like, caring for myself.
- [28:13]
B
How.
- [28:13]
A
And they're feeling overwhelmed. How would you encourage them to get started in this? Like, they're feeling like they. The dynamic they have set up with the caregiving is so broken. They're like, come on, Jenny. Like, right, Right.
- [28:29]
B
So a couple of, A couple of things. I, I always encourage people to, especially people who are, you know, resistant or feeling like, I just, I don't know if I can fit this in. You know, start with breathing. It's so basic, but oh my gosh, it's so powerful when you don't think. Well, I know that, you know, it's. We can get into that. I know that mentality as well. And I do the same thing, you know. Well, I've heard that. Or I know that, but it's like, but am I doing it? Because, you know, knowing something and doing something are two very different things. And so, you know, practicing and maybe it's when you're in the bathroom, you know, if you're somebody that's like a, you know, you're living with your, your person that you're caring for, that may be your only, your only time that you feel like, okay, I almost have these couple minutes to myself. And so while you're in there, you know, slow down, take a couple of slow, deep breaths and just really let yourself relax a little bit.
- [29:20]
A
Oh, I'm like, say something nice to yourself. Be like, look at me. I'm like really caring for this other human in a nice way. Like, right?
- [29:28]
B
And feeling those, feeling those things that you're, you know, feeling that gratitude for, you know, for whatever good is going on in your life, for being able to show up for someone, you know, finding those, those little things. Because it is, it's so easy, especially when you're doing a very thankless, non stop job to, to focus on all of the ways that either aren't going well or that you feel like you're failing and instead just really thinking about those little things, you know, those little happy moments that you've had or those times when you're like, oh, you know what? I feel really good about this thing. And, and that's something, I mean, it can just, it can really change your energy and change the way that you show up for yourself and for other people. For sure.
- [30:11]
A
Yeah. And that reminder to self of like, why am I doing this? I think that's sometimes that that's where resentment comes from or when burnout comes from, when we just feel like we have to and we actually don't. Like, we don't have to. I remember even as a young mom, I was in a coaching session and I was like, I have to do this, I have to. And she's like, you don't have to. I was like, yes, I do. She's like, no, you literally could like, give your kids away. She's like, this is. And I was like, oh. And it just sort of shifted it for me to be like, I'm choosing this and yay, me. Because I am, you know, doing the hard stuff. And. And I guess I like thinking of that bathroom moment and. And just realigning with values. Why are. Whoever is listening, why are you doing what you're doing? Why are you caring for your kids in the way that you're caring for your kids? Why are you caring for your aging parent in the way you're caring for your age and parent? And if your brain is like, because my brother won't or because someone else won't will stop. Like, let's get out a pen and a paper and be like, you're. You're like, let's just push back against that. And because we want them to be more in that empowered place instead of the victim. Like, I have to do this because no one else will or. But getting. So it does two things to get you more in that empowered place. Like, I'm choosing to do this. I'm the type of person who. My mother's health matters to me, and I am having her, you know, fill in the blank or that this is. Matters to me gets back in that. It also gets you out of that resentment, you know, and you can get more into like, well, what do I want and why am I doing this? And bringing a little more joy to what you're doing. Because it is freaking hard.
- [31:51]
B
Absolutely. It absolutely is. And figuring out those things that, you know, okay, if I feel like I have limited time or limited will right now to maybe take care of myself a little bit, you know, how. How can you start small? And I think part of that is just thinking about what is it that really fills me up because that's very different for both of us in my, you know, my approach in working with clients is to really personalize that, you know, personalize your self care. Don't just accept, you know, oh, well, you know, she goes and gets her nails done, or, you know, it's spa days and bubble baths and that, you know, that's just gonna fit in for everybody. Yeah. And, you know, and really those are things that we enjoy. And for some people, it really does fill them up, but for others, it may just be okay. That's just. That's just something else that I feel like I'm supposed to do.
- [32:41]
A
Right.
- [32:41]
B
But maybe, you know, spending time in nature, doing some grounding exercises, you know, doing some breathing Going and going for a walk or going to an exercise class where you're just stepping outside of something, where you're talking with other people, where you're somebody other than a caregiver for those, those few moments, you know, just having that time to your yourself and to really pour back into you and do the things that, you know, make a difference and spending time with people that make you feel better. I mean, having that spark team is so important because there's plenty of energy vampires out there too, where, you know, you're just with them and you're like, yeah, well, yeah.
- [33:24]
A
Yes, well. And I like, I know what I was going to say when I was encouraging people to like, return to their values and that this is a choice they're making. You know, that I'm the type of woman who is caring for this person. It also helps if you say to said person, hey, I'm going outside. Some of the things that you just said, hey, I'm going out for a 10 minute walk, or hey, I'm going out to get a breath of fresh air. And they push back. What, Wait, what about me? Like, what? You know, they're sort of in that place. I like clients to be more in that. Like, no, it's okay for me to like, you know, I'm the type of woman who's taking care of you and I still get to go outside and take a break. Like, I still get to go stand outside. What, what do you so say, Say someone is saying, like, well, wait, what about me? What am I going to do? I can't. Nice for you. You can go outside. I can't go outside. What do you say to that woman when she's feeling guilty and selfish, frankly?
- [34:24]
B
Yeah. And that, that is, that is something that's not, it's not easy, especially. Right. Especially when, when we feel, you know, when we're feeling that guilt, you know, in, in the beginning, it's even harder than. It may never be easy. I mean, to be honest with some of us, with our personalities, with our relationship dynamics, it may never be easy to do that. But being able to just say, you know, hey, mom, if, you know, if we're talking about mom here, mom, look, I love you, but I just need to, I just need to step away for a few, you know, and that's going to help me to be able to, to be with you and enjoy our time together more and, and putting it as a. This is just something I need. Not, not necessarily. I need to get away from you. Even though it may totally Be I need to get away from you for a few but you know, this is something that I need to do for me. But I'll be back in whenever, you know, whether that's in 10 minutes or tomorrow or whatever that case may be, you know, depending on your situation. But it does generally get a little bit easier with time and once you, you know, continue to show up for yourself in that way.
- [35:33]
A
Yeah, well, that's why I love, you know, what you're doing out there to support this. And also groups like I have the Love youe Life school where you, you need someone around you. If this has been a long standing pattern, and it is a long standing pattern in our society to put all your needs aside and take care of others. When you say to whoever you're caring for for the first time, like hey, I'm going to go outside and take a breath that's going to feel really traumatic to your system. And if the person pushes back and is like, well wait, what about me? Like I can, you know, we need a group or a community that's like, you're not doing anything wrong. This is, it's okay. You go out there, it's going to feel uncomfortable. You know what I hear you saying, Jenny, is that like the first time it's going to feel uncomfortable. Second time it's going to feel kind of, the third time it's going to feel a little less uncomfortable. I also know the first time you say it that person's gonna be like, what are you doing talking about like that you've never done this before. Second time they're gonna be like, oh, you're doing that annoying thing again. Third time they're like, okay, fine, freaking go. Like how long are you going to be gone for? Can you pick me up a newspaper while you know, like.
- [36:32]
B
Right.
- [36:32]
A
It gets a little easier there. I think it's also important to say so we want that we want people around us who are supporting this idea that self care isn't selfish, that that is mandatory. And then we also want our expectations set to a point where this person is, is not gonna, that we don't want them to have to agree with us. So if we do have these long standing, certainly if we're caring for a parent where our dynamic since we've been born has been to, you know, put our needs, that's what's been programmed into us. Then when we speak up to them that we're like, hey, suddenly I'm gonna go outside and take a breath. No matter how much explaining we do to them, hey, Mom, I love you so much. And you mean so. And you know what?
- [37:15]
B
I'm just.
- [37:16]
A
I was listening to this podcast the other day, and they're talking like, stop it. But just the shorter the better. And just sort of a broken record. It's like, I'm going out. You know, I needed. I need a breath of fresh air. I'm going outside. Mom comes back with something like, what are you. And you're just like, I know, Mom. I'm going outside. I'll be back. And I'll be back in three.
- [37:34]
B
What?
- [37:34]
A
Okay, I'm going. And we just. We don't get caught in that, trying to explain ourselves, getting defensive. Well, I've been here all day and I, you know, or like, that sort of. That's where we know we've sort of gone back into that caving place. But caving in terms of, like, immaturity. We're back into that child place. Really. We're not showing up as the adult. The adult is like, no, I have needs. You have needs. I'm meeting your needs. The best of my ability. And now I'm going to go meet my needs. Thank you.
- [38:02]
B
Right.
- [38:02]
A
I understand. Not so happy.
- [38:05]
B
And I love that. And, you know, my. I remember when you said that my husband used to do that sometimes with the. The kids when they were younger, you know, and they would get in that cycle and it's like, you know what? Look there. When the kids were young and they were, you know, like, being kind of argumentative to understand, you know, then that's very different. I'm like, look, he has no interest in understanding what you're saying. He's just wanting to argue, you know.
- [38:30]
A
He'S wanting to keep it going, to differentiate. Right, exactly.
- [38:33]
B
Right. You know, and really, most of the time it was. He's trying to stay up, you know, it would be late at night.
- [38:39]
A
He just wants you to argue.
- [38:40]
B
Stands. Yeah. Understands the issue, but you're just playing right into that. Because my husband loves to over explain everything. And so, you know, he would be doing that and it would just be this going back and forth. And I'm like, do you not see this? Like, it's not going to change, you.
- [38:55]
A
Know.
- [38:57]
B
And, and yes, especially with, you know, our adult relationships, parenting relationships, it can definitely be that way where that's just always been the dynamic. There's, you know, the guilt tripping that goes along with all of that. And, and, and yes, just, you know, keeping it short and sweet and doing what you need to do.
- [39:14]
A
Yeah. And being the adult There because we're looking for them, we're looking for the buy in so we don't feel guilty because if we're like mom, I'm going out for a breath of fresh air. And they're like great idea. You know, we're like, dude, like we would have been doing that years ago.
- [39:27]
B
Thanks.
- [39:28]
A
Right, Exactly. But if it's that like, you know, the pushback, like I, you know, I think back to just some of, I mean this happens with the most kind hearted people and I'm like, I consider myself that when my husband's like like hey, I'm going home now for the night and it's you know, 2pm and I'm like, oh, okay. Like that must have been really hard for him. And he still did it and I'm really proud of him for doing it. And he didn't sit there and over explain and defend and he's just like, yes sweetheart, like here's a hug and let's go. And I'm like, right. And actually his non, him not going into that defensive over explaining helped me to be like, right, like this is normal. Like it's not his job to stay here and be my little like Cabbage Patch Kid while I'm getting through thing. So I, I again it's like brief. Don't expect the buy in. Surround yourself with people who support you and are saying no. Like your needs matter. We don't want to surround ourselves with people that are like, you did what right. We want the, your needs matter because we're trying to break this, this pattern of people putting themselves last, not going for the oxygen at all. Yeah.
- [40:38]
B
And Susie, I am curious, did when he did that, did you, you know, like you said you were, there was a part of you that maybe was a little bit disappointed. But, but do you feel like that gave you more of an opportunity to kind of sit there and figure things out for yourself a little bit too? Like how you were feeling about everything that was going on instead of, you know, sometimes we can, you know, being with someone. Yes. Can make us feel better. Sometimes we can process things with them. But sometimes when we're just left alone with our own thoughts, then it's like, oh, you've really gotta, gotta go a little deeper and figure out where, how do I feel about all of this? Where do I want to go? What do I need?
- [41:14]
A
I mean, I'm going to say it was completely helpful. It was helpful mostly for me because I, I was like journaling every day and going into my thoughts every day. But mostly for me, it really gave me clarity to see both sides of this caregiving situation. And I, and, and how, like, I've been in those situations where I'm like, okay, no, I'm going to go take a deep breath of air. And then I get the. Of pushback and. But I don't think I've been in that place where I've been like, oh, wait a minute. Like, I was, I was surprised with myself at how I was like, hold on. You know, I coach on boundaries. And then there's a man saying boundaries. And I'm like, and it was really helpful for me, one, to see that my life coaching tools held up. That I sort of felt that initial, like, oh. And then I'm like, no, what I'm feeling is disappointment. That's a total clean pain feeling to feel. I would have been getting into dirty pain if I'm like, he should have been, you know, that sort of stuff. It was really helpful. I mean, I think it strengthened our relationship, frankly, that it was like, I'm so glad to see that I didn't have someone. I guess this is another thing to note that I am incredibly grateful that I didn't have someone caring for me and ignoring all of his or her basic human needs because they thought that I couldn't handle it. And then they become this resentful mess. And then in two weeks time, he's like, yeah, well, when I didn't do anything for, you know, whatever work when you were at the hospital, that's, you know, it's like, no, it's so nice to not get that boomerang of like, smack.
- [42:44]
B
Right.
- [42:44]
A
So in all ways it is helpful. It does encourage that relationship to grow. Now, the other person might not be doing their own thought work, so that's fine. But we have to. That's why we surround ourselves with the group where it's like, yeah, you're not doing something wrong and they might be a little whiny and that's okay. Like, let's stop putting everyone else's feelings above your feelings.
- [43:09]
B
Absolutely.
- [43:10]
A
Let's let people, I mean, the Mel Robbins, let them have their things and let you do what serves you, and everyone's going to come out ahead, right?
- [43:20]
B
Yeah. And, and when you try it, you realize that, well, it's not really as uncomfortable as it seems like it's going to be. And it feels, it feels good. It feels good to, to know that you're taking care of yourself. It feels good to know that you can say no, that somebody can be disappointed and you can both live through it and yeah, and when it does.
- [43:41]
A
Feel uncomfortable because I was like, no, like, I think sometimes it really does still feel like, yes, like my, if people are watching the video like mine, my like chest feels like so uncomfortable when I am speaking up for myself or when I am saying like I need to take a breath of fresh air or that's not going to work for me or something. And knowing that, you know, between the like let them and the let me is we can care for ourselves. We are no longer those little children around our mothers when we're, you know, eight in our house. We're our age, we are full grown adults and we can do the work that we can't talk about, you know, on a podcast episode or we can't do justice to on a podcast episode, but do the work work of signaling safety to our body and being that, you know, supporter of ourselves that we were not equipped to be when we were 8. And I think that's super important that even if it does feel hard, still do it because as you said, like the ramifications of this long term in our health and caregivers, health and caregivers relationships are really quite significant. I think that's a great place to finish up. And I guess is there anything that you feel that we've left unsaid that you'd like to tell that listener out there?
- [44:59]
B
I think really just that you're worth it, you know, you're worth taking that time for yourself, whatever that looks like for you. You know, you're worth exploring what that looks like for you and, and recognizing that, you know, it's not being selfish to have needs. You're human, you're not a robot. And caregiving is hard work in, in every way hard work and especially when there's lots of feelings involved, you know, when it's somebody that you're, you're close to. And so, you know, just figuring out ways to make that happen and fit into your life is, is such an important work worth doing consider.
- [45:39]
A
Yeah, it's managed. I mean, you're not here to be a little robot for someone else's life. Like you are here for a reason. So I, I love that. Thank you so much for coming on, Jenny. I will.
- [45:49]
B
You're so welcome.
- [45:49]
A
Your contact information, but just on the audio, do you want to direct, direct listeners to where they can get some more of this warm hearted support from. Wonderful.
- [45:58]
B
Yes, yes. So again, you know, like you said, we didn't have time to go into a whole lot of things But I do have a book called Self Care Isn't Selfish, the Compassionate Nurses Step by Step Guide to Personalized Self Care. And it goes into these things some more. But at the same time it's a really short read because people who need to read it, we're going to spend a lot of time reading it. So it is available on, yeah, it is available on Amazon in, you know, in audible and Kindle and paperback and all that. But your listeners can also just go to my website, jennylitel.com j-e N-N-Y l Y-T-L e.com and and just get a free digital copy of the book as well. So and there's also other resources.
- [46:38]
A
I mean you really are like people. I want to help you. So I see.
- [46:41]
B
Absolutely.
- [46:42]
A
That's wonderful. And I will put the links, you know, listeners listening, just scroll down. Those links will be there for you. And go give Jenny some love because it was I'm very grateful that you took your time today to help you us all. This is important work and important work to care for the caregiver and all of us running out there taking care of everyone else.
- [47:02]
B
Thank you for taking care so much, Susie. I really appreciate the opportunity.
- [47:06]
A
Wonderful.