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Love Your Life Show: Personal Growth, Mindset, + Habits for Busy Moms
Emotional Safety Explained: People Pleasing, Codependency, Childhood Trauma, Emotional Triggers [HEALING SERIES]
00:41:52
Do you find yourself tiptoeing around conflict, hiding your true feelings, or feeling anxious about how others will react? - In this episode of The Love Your Life Show, I sit down with Tarah Kerwin, a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and co-fou...
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- [00:01]
A
Hello, warriors, and welcome to episode 345 of the Love youe Life show. This is Susie Pettit, your life and wellness coach. And I have a treat for you. Today on the show, you get to listen into a conversation I had with Tara Kerwin on emotional safety, people pleasing, and some of the ridiculous things we both do in relationships. Now get ready to to laugh and learn along with us. Tara is a licensed marriage and family therapist, the co founder of Relationship Renovation. She has a thriving therapy practice in Tucson, Arizona. She also has a master's in clinical psychology and is the co host of the popular Relationship Renovation podcast. You will want to stay till the end, my dear warriors, because she walks us through a six step process that will help you in your own individual life and also in your relationships. It is dynamite and can't wait for you to listen in. Let's go. Hi, this is the Love youe Life show with Susie Pettit, certified life and wellness coach. Join Susie as she helps you with your wellness and mindset so you can live a life you love. Let's go, warriors. All right, and welcome to the Love youe Life Show. Tara, I am so excited to have you here.
- [01:33]
B
I'm so happy to be here. Susie, thank you so much.
- [01:36]
A
Thank you for coming in. I'm very excited to have you on the show. We were just briefly talking about how really I want to focus on the topic of emotional safety. And yet, friends, first, I would like to dive in a little to how you got to be doing what you're doing. And for listeners who haven't heard of what you're doing, what it is that you're doing, because I found your journey from people pleasing to this emotional stability so inspiring. So could you tell us a little bit about how, you know, your past.
- [02:10]
B
Has affected right now and what we're doing? Yes. And I will try to make it brief because I'm a talker. I will say when. So I grew up in a pretty, not pretty, a very traumatic childhood environment. And I always knew when I was young that I was resilient. I was like, this isn't normal. This isn't okay. And I was always like empathetic, kind of like an empath to couples. My grandma will tell me stories. When I was a little girl, I would cry if I saw a couple sitting at a table, not talking or looking sad. And so I knew early on that I was a healer. And then when I was in graduate school, I loved my marriage and family systems class. So I was like, that's It. I knew I was going to be a marriage and family therapist, and I have been since I was 22 years old. So 24 years later, right. So I wanted to understand it. I wanted to help others, especially those who have some childhood trauma, and to, like, really, you know, clicking in with their resilience and knowing that, like, this is not our story. So from there, I. Right. 35 years old. I had done a ton of marriage counseling. I was like, I hadn't find my guy yet. I was kind of a serial monogamist. Like that. I was a really good picker, but, like, you know, the grass is always greener. If I can find someone this great, there's got to be someone even better. Not recognizing it was my own trauma still, right. Pushing them away because I was afraid to be in a secure attack. I didn't even know what secure relationship was. I just knew I was a really good therapist because I had a really good heart. And my heart was, you know, where I wanted it to be. And I think people could feel that. So fast forward, I meet ej and he was a fellow therapist at a eating disorder facility I was working in. We both specialized in anorexia and bulimia. And then I also had, like, my side part private practice of couples. And so EJ had been going through a really bad divorce. He had two very young kids, one in three. We were really good friends. So I was like, ej, I'm gonna take you out. I'm gonna be your wing sister. I'm gonna find you a rebound. Because he's such a good guy. He didn't deserve what happened to him. And so we go out a bunch of coworkers, and he kissed me that night, which was, like, the last thing. I'd never seen EJ that ever. And fast forward 15 years. He proposed after a year, and we got pregnant with twins on our honeymoon. So I went from zero to four kids in a year and a half. And I thought, cool. This is awesome. We got this. He's been a dad before. Like, so the twins are born. They had colic, which I didn't even know what that meant. And let's just say life got very real very quickly. I was nursing every hour. I wouldn't sleep for days. Ej, the expectations. I thought that he would follow through with nothing like that. And so we went from this really fun, exciting relationship where we only had kids. 50% of the time, he's this cool guy, super chill, to, like, overwhelm. And all the trauma I thought I healed from that was just the beginning because I never felt so much distress and overwhelm in my whole life. And I had to take a whole year off work, and EJ would come in the door, and I'm like, take your babies. I don't want. Like, I was just so overwhelmed and resentful.
- [05:52]
A
I'm laughing because.
- [05:54]
B
Oh, Susie. I was like, I was not my best self, right? So I just remember one day, and this is where relationship renovations started. And like, eight years later, we're going strong. But I was at the park, and I would try to, like, walk because the only time the babies would sleep as if they were in their double jogging stroller. And I called EJ and I said, e, if you and I are, like, having this much hardship, like, I was in that minivan we had to buy divorcing him every two days. I'm like, I'm out of here. I was like, if two people who are really lovely humans who. Who have been practicing therapists for years are having this hard of a time with a transition, a, we have to figure our shit out, and B, we're gonna have to help our community. And then that was the. I knew that was what I was supposed to do. So we. It took about two years to develop the relationship renovation model, and we had to work through all of our stuff and. And do a ton of interventions and cultivate emotional safety, which is. We did. It took years to do it, but we continue to do it. And so that was like our. It was like the. The twins were almost like a. A blessing in disguise. And so. So now today, we have a counseling center in Tucson, Arizona. We have 15 therapists trained in our model, which has been so successful, and our podcast, which global listeners just, like, love hearing, EJ and I. And, like, we have a lot of guest speakers on, but we just talk about how hard it is at times and that you're not uniquely broken, that it takes a lot of skills and pushing ego aside to make a relationship work, especially during stressful transitions. And so, like, you will hear the word emotional safety. And probably every single episode, we have, like, 215 episodes. And. And so many people make comments or email. Email us about it. Like, what exactly is emotional safety? So I'm really happy to be here today to. To answer that in my own perspective. I'm sure it means different things for a lot of people, but for me and for ej, it's like the ability to be who you need to be at any given time without a threat involved. Right. That I can be not my best self. And that EJ can have the tolerance for it, still have boundaries, but there's not like, God, if you are like this one more time, I'm done. Right? And it takes, right? We're all defensive. We're humans. Like, I'm not. If I hurt ej, my innate thing is not to be like, oh, honey, what did I do? I'm so sorry. And she'd be like, well, you hurt me worse. Right?
- [08:44]
A
You deserve this funny tit for t.
- [08:49]
B
And so now it's like, because we've developed emotional safety, when I do hurt him, I still might get a little like, ah. But then I. It's like, I very quickly can come to a repair. Like, I'm so sorry. I know that what I just said was not kind. So it's not about not ever triggering each other again, because we will, right? I say our partners, our greatest teacher, be patient for the lessons. It's about constantly developing skills that develop emotional safety for yourself and each other. Because even if you're not in a relationship like my own, I. I got to like, cultivate my environment where I didn't have a lot of triggers. I, like, lived by myself in a three bedroom condo. Like, didn't have to do five loads of laundry a day, or I could keep it as clean as I wanted and didn't have to write pick up after people. But it's like when that nervous system got activated, I had no idea how to have safety for myself, so I had to learn that first. Right? And then I could provide safety for our coupleship. But it starts with you first. I just wanted him to, like, stop doing this and like to hire a full time nurse. And I don't know, I just wanted him to take away all the uncomfortable.
- [10:06]
A
One back to that part. I mean, we do, but we don't. Yeah, I really appreciate you said so much there, and I'm just like, yes, yes, yes. Just all of it. So thank you for giving us a background to your past and how this played out. And I. I had heard the story before, but had forgotten how you both, you know, came together through your work and then had this moment, you know, with the twins where you were like, oh, my goodness, wait a minute, if we're having all this trouble, then what in the heck are the normal, you know, regular old people out there who haven't been trained in all of this for so many years doing? And I really want to highlight that point with listeners that we aren't born with these skills, that these are skills to Be learned and cultivated and continue to be learned and cultivated. And that, that is a way I know that I beat myself up in past relationships. Just sort of like a rigidity. Like, why is it like that something must be wrong with me or him, like, you know, versus, you know, like, if I got on a bike and right now I live near the water. If I get on a surfboard and fall, I'm like, of course I don't know how to surf. Like, let me maybe learn some skills. I mean, like, read something, watch a YouTube, talk to someone. And so I really appreciate that skill building aspect of it. And also. So I want to talk a little bit about that, but I, I also just, I know listeners have heard before from me and other guests on the show saying that, you know, relationships really are, I consider them to be a container for growth. They're like, at the, they're just a wonderful, wonderful place in that, like, our triggers are going to keep bumping up against each other. And if we are open to learn the skills and you said, learn the lessons. I loved how you said that. Like, be patient to learn the lessons, then, then that is our opportunity here.
- [12:01]
B
And sort of Earth school people, like, couples look at me like, I'm crazy when I'm like, I love that you guys trigger each other. This is your opportunity to grow.
- [12:11]
A
Yeah.
- [12:11]
B
Even with ej, he used to be like. Because he, he avoided conflict at all cost. And when we would have an argument and be able to settle it, I would be like, oh, my God, I feel so much closer to you. And he would be like, what just happened? That was awful. I was like, yeah, but this is so good. It's growth. It's just so hard to stay with. Uncomfortable. I mean, and I just knew, like, I'm so glad I knew EJ was my person, because I was able to always pick guys who were super smart and good looking, but emotionally, they would, like, let me do whatever. So then I would be like, yeah, all right. I'm kind of bored now. But with ej, I don't know if it was him being a therapist or just the kind of unique human he is. He's like, I don't, like, really buy that, Tara, and that's not okay. And I'd be like, what?
- [12:59]
A
Right?
- [12:59]
B
Like a man that's setting, like, standing up with his boundaries. Okay, I got this. I like that.
- [13:05]
A
Yeah, yeah, it, and it takes two to tango is the expression. But we need both of us in that relationship, so I, I, I really appreciate that. And I also wanted to Underscore what you had said about the emotional safety, because we talked briefly before we got on, but listeners who know my story, like, I did not feel emotionally safe, and many of us didn't feel emotionally safe in our families of origin. And that is where the trauma comes into the work, that we didn't feel safe to express ourselves or we didn't feel safe to really be our authentic selves. Maybe we did some people pleasing. We did some, you know, shape shifting into who our parents wanted us to be and who our friends wanted us to be. And for me, who my first husband wanted me to be. And you use the word threat, and I. I often have registered it as fear. But threat is absolutely what it feels like. Like, in a primal sense that I. There is a threat to my, you know, survival, these old patterns. And. And that is the opposite of emotional safety.
- [14:10]
B
It does the opposite.
- [14:12]
A
Yeah. And it feel. It feels so. So triggering, you know, just in that. That when I feel that threat, it's to go right into that. That triggering place. So can you speak a little about how people in relationship might be able to first even recognize that they're. They're maybe not feeling emotionally safe or feeling that threat, and then the second they do.
- [14:39]
B
So I love that question. And there's so many ways I could go about this, because for me, growing up, I was right. If bad things always happened. And my twin sister was more feisty than me, so she would talk back, and I would be like, don't do that. Like, and I. I would do everything to make sure everybody around me was okay. I was the pleaser, the. The peacekeeper. I didn't want anyone to, like, ruffle anything. So when I had the twins and I was overwhelmed, I didn't ask for help. I didn't say, I need this. I tried to do it all myself to make sure everybody else was okay, the babies were okay. My two young step kids who are 2 and 4, that they were okay, that EJ was okay. Like, I kept it all to myself because I didn't even know how to intuit my own needs. I never learned that that's how you.
- [15:33]
A
Survived as a kid. Yeah.
- [15:35]
B
So then I expect EJ's just gonna intuit my needs. He's gonna know that he needs to come home, and he's to be like, babe, you go, honey, you go take some time out in the bedroom and detach from those children. And he never did that. Not at all. And so my. Like, I think it's those unmet childhood needs. Like, I needed A protector. And no one protected me. I was like, the one person I wanted to protect me is not now. And now he's a threat. Now he's. Now he's the perpetrator that I have when I was little. Now he's my evil stepdad who was a horrible, drunk, raging abuser. My brain didn't know that they're separate, but the feeling was like, I'm not safe. I'm not being cared for. I'm not being protected. And little did I know, I had to, like, do a lot of work on saying, this is what I need, right? And doing all of that. Couples work around. We're not mind readers. Like, he's not gonna ever complete me in that way. He'll never be my father. He'll never be that safe person in that way. But we've got a fair chance. If I'm like, hey, ej, this is really important to me. It would mean a lot. And he's like, absolutely, girl. I got you. Right? And if he isn't a partner that does that, well, at least I was able to do all that I could do to express my needs. Be very clear. Clear as kind. Words of Brene bound. Clear is kind. Unclear is unkind. Like. And so that's the piece. Like, I knew one of the very first tools we give couples because couples that come in, I mean, Susie, 80%. It's either this or we're done. Like, okay. Nobody waits. Nobody is like, oh, our relationship is good. We want to be better, right? So we get the couples in crisis. And I get it. Research shows it takes six years for couples to be very unhappy before they finally reach out. Like, six years. So I say, okay, here you guys are. And before we re traumatize and make you guys a threat anymore, the first thing we do is code word, because I'll never forget. E.J. came home, and I was like, right? It was that. Like, I don't even like looking at you. And I was like, that's not me. That's not me. And so I remember I said this to ej, I'm gonna say the word burnt toast, because Burnt toast, right? How many times would I try to go get my toast and coffee? And then I forgot it was there. And then I go back, and I forget it was there. And the coffee's in the microwave for 50 hours. So I said, EJ, when I say melt card, right? Sometimes I would just eat it. I didn't care. But I would say, when I say burnt toast, that means I'm not Good. I'm not speaking from my heart. I don't even know who I am. So I'm going to take my own time out. I'm going to go into the bedroom. I'm going to read an Us magazine. I'm going to put on Miles Davis, like, whatever it is that makes me feel calm. And EJ would know, oh, I'm going to remove any stimulation from her right now. I'm going to help support her. That is one of the first things that we did where I could now say, I'm not going to reinforce this resentment and anger because that's not who I am. But people have a hard time stopping in that place. But the one thing it did for EJ was like. He's like, oh, she doesn't just hate me. She's recognizing that she's out of her window of tolerance, too. So then it made him also have more empathy for me because he thought I just hated him. He's like, God, she went from loving me to, like, hating me. I'm not the father she was. I'm not the husband she wanted me to be. And now he sees me taking my own accountability and saying, let's come back and let's work on this. So one of the first things we do very early on is like, you guys, when you are out of your window of tolerance, when you know you're not doing anything good or saying anything good, or you feel your whole body, your heart rate's elevated, you feel pressure in your head, use your code word, promise you'll come back. But when you're in a calmer place, and so that at least.
- [19:42]
A
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I do. I have lots of listeners that are, like me, had been in some. Maybe some emotionally unsafe relationships, narcissists or whatever. And so just for those listeners who, like, if I had said that to my first husband ahead of time, that we had a code word and then I used it, that would be used against me. But I want to.
- [20:03]
B
Weaponizing, right?
- [20:04]
A
Because I wasn't now in my safe, healthy. So that's something different. If listeners are listening and they're like, but my husband won't do that, well, then that. That is a different. That is. That's. We get the professional support. That is not, you know, this case, and we can still do it for ourselves, because it is that, you know, registering. Oh, my gosh. Okay. I've had that burnt toast kind of day. In walks my, you know, husband or partner or person, you know, whether it's a parent Or a teenage, you know, and I'm unregulated. Okay, I need a break. I need to chill out. I need to stop saying words out of my mouth. Or I need to go, you know, go grab an ice cube from the freezer as one of those DVD tools, like, try to, you know, just get something cold or a deep breath. But I did. I did want to interject that here, that this also works. Ideally, it works in that emotionally safe relationship where you have the other partner that's like, okay, yes, go in your bedroom.
- [20:59]
B
And.
- [21:00]
A
And it also can work individually.
- [21:04]
B
I love that you clarify that, because, trust me, we have couples that come in where the safety is, so it's so not there. And we're really good at doing assessments first before even saying, this is the right model for you to go through. And we normally would recommend individual if there wasn't access to narcissistic whatever. Because you can't do couples work if only one person's doing it. But it is like, hey, you guys, you're signing up, right, to come in every week for, like, six months. Do you have a shared goal around this? And it's every single week. And we have at home lessons, so many things that we give to them. But it's not like, usually you have one partner that's like being dragon. But you'll get that sense of, like, if they're in with a really good therapist that both are suffering. They both want the same thing. They just got to this place where they don't feel seen anymore. So now they're in their own, like, childhood, like, wounds. I mean, we've seen tantrums, we've seen it all. But regardless of if you're in a coupleship where you can build emotional safety or a coupleship that is just too toxic, being able to come back into your window of tolerance individually is everything. Otherwise, we're constantly disappointed. Right? Blame, blame, blame. This person can't make my needs. This person. You know what? I can meet my own needs. Hopefully I get to have a person that I'm in love with that wants to meet my needs, too, most of the time, because I can say them. But if that's not the case, I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm safe. That's the. The most important part of it is I'm safe. Even though this doesn't feel safe right now, but I have a choice.
- [22:41]
A
I really appreciate that, and I. So I'm also hearing an awareness on your part, which a lot of us don't. Weren't taught when we're younger of that, you know, when. When EJ walks in, like, you had an awareness of your emotional state of, you know, how you were feeling. And maybe when, you know, the term would be flooded or before it sort of like that big old like of. Of emotion and whether that's coming from the day's events because maybe a listener on here is like, well, I don't really have trauma, you know, big T trauma we all have. You just really walked us through how, like, just in a day, and you're trying to get your coffee and you have the twins and then you have the other kids, and you're trying to keep everything good for everyone else. And it's just like building and building and building. So like a little pressure cooker. And then EJ says one thing, like, I thought you were gonna get chicken. And you go from like 0 to 100. So it's helpful, you know, in that moment to just notice. It's like, yeah, here, you know, is. It's building in ourselves that self awareness and also learning to take that pause.
- [23:57]
B
Well. Yeah. And you know, Susie, like, with people pleasing, like, I never showed anger. Like, I was the happiest most. Like, people were like, you're like a little firefly, Tara. People just want to be around you. Like, I exuded joy even though I had this pain, painful past, because I'd never put myself in situations I would if it started to get uncomfortable. Bye. Bye. See you later. Right. Serial monogamous until I'm 35. And of course, I meet EJ and there's my teacher. Right. And so it's. Oh, sorry. I just forgot what I was going to say.
- [24:31]
A
Well, I'm also. I'm. I just was thinking it's that, like, protective piece, you know, that. That.
- [24:36]
B
See?
- [24:37]
A
Bye. Bye. I mean, I guess the. The flee in our fight.
- [24:40]
B
Oh, yeah. But I'm just thinking I'm really healthy and I'm just like, this just isn't the person for me.
- [24:47]
A
Yeah.
- [24:47]
B
But. Yeah, that. Oh, I know where I was gonna say that anger, like, that's when I knew something huge is happening for me because I've never write people pleasing. Anger was never allowed. And I just knew that it felt so overwhelming, like it would feel like a ball, a bowling ball in my head. And I was just like, that's not me. It's not who EJ fell in love with. Like, what is this part of me? And I'm so glad that part was there because I got to do so much work around it. And because anger is okay and rage is okay. Right. As long as you understand it and start to let your. You give permission for you to feel it in healthier ways. Not. Not right. Doing it to, like, your husband. Really? I was like, I. You. How dare you do this to me? Like, he didn't intentionally get me pregnant with twins. It Ra family. But the blame piece was so there.
- [25:42]
A
Right? Okay. Yes. So I do like that. That awareness that we can all learn from just about ourselves. And if we're listening, you know, at some point, maybe pause the episode or come back sometime today and just have a little bit, like, lesson with yourself. Like, what do I do when I'm triggered? What are my signs? What does it feel like in my body? What does it feel like in my face? What do I tend to do? Do I tend to do the, you know, exit door? Do I tend to do the fight? Do I. Whichever. And. And I guess I wanted to return a little to people pleasing because I find that this happens so often with women for so many different reasons. And what I'm hearing from your past is it was a safety. Like, let me just keep everything. You know, it's like, keep the water still. Like, we just need to make sure everyone is okay. Everyone's. Everything's fine. From my past, there was a part of that, but there was also a part of I was only accepted if I was this certain way.
- [26:41]
B
Absolutely.
- [26:42]
A
You know, so. And so both of those come into the emotional safety a bit that in terms of I didn't feel safe to be myself because of my past experiences. And you wouldn't have felt safe if you come back and have maybe a conflict or raise something. Can you speak a bit to that?
- [27:03]
B
Well, just the, like, yeah, you. I grew up feeling like none of my emotions were okay, but everybody else was so much more important. So everybody else is more important than me. And it would parallel it. Like, I would be the last. The laundry mine would be the last to be put away. If it was even put away. I would do everybody else's laundry first. I would just take care of everybody's needs first. Because it's that, like, when you're in a. When you're growing up in an environment where you're not perceived as important or special or unique, you just learn that, like, my needs aren't okay. Everyone else's is. And to stay safe, that's just the story. Right? And when you're a little girl, like, that's all, you know? So, like, I always made. And then people reinforce you. Like, you're the nicest person I've ever met. I'm like, thank you.
- [27:55]
A
Yeah.
- [27:56]
B
Like, it reinforced, like, I had great friends, I had awesome boyfriends. Like, I picked really good people because they thought I was like a freaking angel.
- [28:05]
A
Yes.
- [28:05]
B
Because I just.
- [28:06]
A
It's that side, it's. I mean, that's why I've called people pleasing people, deceiving, because it is that, like, other side, a different person. But so that, you know, that's what we did in our unskilled way to get the safety. And so what I'm hearing you say now is in our adult bodies, in our adult relationships, to really, you know, first be aware of what the triggers of the flooding or what that feels like when we're activated. I also did hear you say something about, you know, asking for our, like, figuring out what our need is and asking using our words. The clear. Communication is kind. Clear is kind.
- [28:47]
B
Yeah.
- [28:48]
A
Can you speak a little bit about that?
- [28:50]
B
That took a minute.
- [28:51]
A
Yeah.
- [28:52]
B
I have two things, because there was. We developed this cognitive restructuring piece for yourself and for couples. That was just a game changer. It's what allowed me to continue to grow. But the first piece is, I'll never forget this. My twin sister was visiting with her mother in law and my mother in law, and everyone was at our house, right. The babies are like six months old. Oh, EJ's mom and Sarah's mom having cocktails, relaxing. I'm like feeding people, making all this, giving the people bath. I just want to sit down. I want to have a glass of sangria with my twin. Is anyone saying, hey, Tara, do you need any help? No. And all of a sudden, I literally. This was the first time ever I lost it out in public. I was like, does anybody see that I need help? Like, I screamed it, okay. And everyone literally looked at me like I was crazy. A freaking alien. And EJ's like, oh, my God, what's happen? And so from that, from that point, that was like very eye opening. I was like, this, this isn't okay anymore. Like, I can't do this. This is not sustainable. And that's when I learned it is okay. I have to ask for help. I have to. Because everyone around me looked at me and they're like, tara, all you have to do is ask. And I'm like, have I ever asked from any. Ever asked for anything? And they were all like, no, we. We just thought you were like Wonder Woman, superhero. So they all. You set it up unconsciously. They thought, God dang, that girl is. She's nursing every hour. She's not sleeping for five days. She is good.
- [30:37]
A
She's got a good. She must be different than us. I mean, we. We act like a superwoman and then they believe we're superwoman. Yeah.
- [30:42]
B
And it took that, like, outburst in front of my family and mother in laws.
- [30:47]
A
Yeah.
- [30:47]
B
To be like, okay. And this is when I started to, like, seek help for postpartum, when EJ and I both got into, like, you know, this is. We have to help other couples, but we've got to help ourselves first. And here's how we want it to look like. And the big piece for, you know, our relationship renovation model was like, so many couples come in and they're in distress and they just kept coming in, inventing, inventing, inventing, and then they leave with like, maybe one skill. We were like, we don't want to do that. We want to bring in these couples and they learn each other from when they were in the womb and until when they got into that couch to our right. We, like, let them understand. What was it like growing up in your family? How did you regulate emotions? How did you learn to. What emotions were okay, what emotions weren't okay? And that's where couples start having a ton of compassion for each other. Cause they're like, oh, it's not just me that you avoid. You've been avoiding this since like you were eight. But they're like, you know, we're such like, you know, just like little selfish creatures. We're like, it's all about me. And like, you don't like me. So I'm done. Right?
- [31:48]
A
I'm done.
- [31:49]
B
So we.
- [31:49]
A
I just want listeners to pause on the questions you just asked, that you shared, that you asked the couples. And if people are not in a relationship right now, those are questions to know about yourself too. Like, yeah, it's great when our partner, if we're in relation, if our partner knows that. But it's also so important for us to know which emotions were safe as a kid. What do we need to do to get love from mom and dad? Why are we so uncomfortable asking for our needs to be met now that's going to show up in how we're parenting our teenagers, our. How we're relating to our friends. And that is such helpful. And it brings safety with us. Where instead of being like, why am I this crazy woman? I'm like, oh, right, because it's so hard for me to ask my needs to be met.
- [32:30]
B
I know. And. And then you just again, like you were saying, like, the positive reinforcement you get from people for being, yes, like, so kind and loving. Like, it doesn't help you grow. It just keeps you, like, in that place. And so that's why I'm grateful that EJ and I had that. We just had that thing, like, we have to just see if this would work. And I guess one thing I did want to share is because couples will come in and they'll be like, how do we know this is going to work? It's the number one. And I'm like, listen, if we could say that you're going to have the relationship of your dreams in four months, we would be on Oprah. We would like you. This is what we know.
- [33:12]
A
And do this dance step, and you're all fixed.
- [33:16]
B
I said, here's what we do know. Both of you, at least one of you, is in a place of fear. And we can't make clear decisions when we're in that place. So we're going to take you through a lot of work individually for the sake of the coupleship so that you can have more clarity. You can attempt to see if you can build emotional safety to get to this secure functioning, and that would be great. And then it's constant work. Right? That is what I can share with you now if you're needing this immediate fix. We're not the people for you. We're not the center for you. It doesn't happen. People like, I just want to talk about sex. We just want to have better sex. I'm like, that's going to take a minute. Want you to have that, too, but. And then you'll start to see, like, the people that are just not there yet or might not ever be yet, they don't stay in treatment. Like, and we don't allow that anyway, because that's not okay. And it's sad because I have a lot of empathy. Like, so many people get stuck from childhood trauma and attachment wounds that they never get to experience that freedom of, like, feeling secure, whether that's with themselves and for each other, you know, like, we've had so many couples that at the end of the model, their journey with us, they're doing amicable endings, but now they're going to co parent in a healthy way. And now they're going to be a better person for their next partnership. And so it's like, whether you stay together or not, that piece of growth and recognizing what's happening for you is everything. It gives you that clarity instead of fear. And again, not everybody. People come in, they're like, I'm not doing this work. Okay, that's fine. Great. No judgment. Sure.
- [34:58]
A
But I think this is a wonderful place to tie it up because listeners of this show, you know, it's the Love youe Life show, they're listening in to learn skills and learn development. And so, and. And I do want them to hear that whether they're in a relationship or not, this. This self knowing and this understanding of self. And. And I guess, you know, circling it all back to emotional safety, finding emotional safety within ourselves, that. That is, you know, that is important work to be doing no matter what your relationship status is.
- [35:34]
B
So this. I have goosebumps because this is something that I've just done for a while and I never thought about doing it with EJ because we were so overwhelmed in our life. But it's cognitive restructuring technique. And basically, let's just say like a trigger is when the response, like, outweighs the stimulus, right? Like, if I remember a doctor, A doctor's office called me and they had to cancel appointment and I had to get. I know. Something that was uncomfortable on my body removed. And I was like, how dare they. I cancel my. Like, I was like a 9 out of 10 and it was just someone calling to say, hey, he's out sick for the day. I remember I sat down and I've done this a lot. But you write down the thoughts, the feelings, the behaviors that were happening. The thoughts were like, how dare they? Don't they know how busy I am? I had to like, Cancel out on 10 sessions today that blah, blah, blah. The feelings were angry, sad. You always try to get under anger and under resentment. Like, sad, scared, confused. What were my feelings? Right? We have feeling wheels and feelings pillows in all of our offices. And then behaviors like, I hung up. I was a total shit to the receptionist. She didn't do anything wrong. I was like, that I'll never come back to you guys again, right? So I have these behaviors of, like, day. You're like, hey, yeah, yelling or withdrawing or avoiding or medicating, right? I'm going to go just have a shot of whiskey, whatever that is. So I'm journaling the thoughts, the feelings, the behaviors. Now here's the piece that was like, it gets below the automatic thoughts, feelings and behaviors. I. Negative core beliefs. I'm not good enough. I'm not safe. I'm insignificant. I'm unimportant. I can't get it right. My big one is I'm insignificant. So I'm writing down my thoughts, the feelings, right? The behaviors. And I'm like, what feels true to me in this moment? Like I'm insignificant. Like that they could just call. And so then it goes. What does that remind you of? And so I always try to come up with five to 10 memories as early as possible. And I remember this one phone call from a doctor's office canceling. Brought me to my first grade classroom when the teacher came in and said, you know, I had a biological dad and a stepdad. My stepdad was awful. My biological dad would pick us up every two weeks. Your dad's not coming today. And I remember feeling awful. Like, I remember feeling so sad and like, why? Because he had canceled twice that. Just that memory and my body feeling it. So. So now what do I do? Well, I'm an adult and I'm 30 something now. So now I say I am significant. It's like, what would you say to that child who's so wounded, who's so scared? And then you do the opposite. You put in a positive belief, like, I am significant. I do matter. I do get it right. And then that just. You've got to. You've got to process something that is so automatic, and it's automatically right. Goes to that mapping of like, oh, my God, here we go again. This isn't good. I'm not good. I suck. I can't get my shit together to, wow, that was really triggering. That felt really bad. I know where that comes from. It's a negative core belief that I developed early on, and now I do that automatically. I don't have to have the journaling anymore. And then when couples do that together when they're in a relationship, that's huge because they're automatically functioning from automatic thoughts, feelings, behaviors. It takes a minute to get to the underlying core beliefs, because that's very vulnerable. But once they can hear, like, I'm insignificant or I don't get it right. And then they can say to each other, you are significant. You do get it right. That's when you can start doing all the intimacy work.
- [39:24]
A
I mean, but just have it come from external, not just in your own head.
- [39:28]
B
Yeah. But just for me individually, I would do that. And then I don't know if you know who Tara Brock is.
- [39:35]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [39:37]
B
She's like my favorite person in the whole wide world. Her rain technique is my jam. Like recognize, allow, investigate, nurture. We take all of our couples and individual clients through it because it is a surefire way that you're going to process whatever feeling all the way through. Right. You're you're recognizing. I feel sad. You're letting it be. However it's going to be in your body. You're, you're identifying how it's showing up and what it reminds you of. And then you're nurturing like I'm, I can handle this. So the cognitive restructuring, Tara Brock's reign, it helped me be like my almost regulated self today.
- [40:17]
A
That's the best we're hoping for.
- [40:20]
B
You know, perimenopause is starting to happen and that's just a whole different story.
- [40:24]
A
That'll be a whole different story. I'm near the end of that, thank God. But we will, we will see. Well, I think that is a wonderful just message to hear to listeners too, that we are, you know, two women educated in this field. And, and really like the most you're hoping for is semi regulated as much of the time as you can see.
- [40:43]
B
I say if you can get it seven out of 10 times, you're doing okay.
- [40:47]
A
I think that's great. That's way better. And I, that's way better than I used to be. So I thank you so much. And I will put all the links, I'll put the links to your podcast for sure in my show notes. What else do you want to make sure? Where do you want to direct?
- [41:01]
B
Listen, just, you know, our website has it all the relationship. It's called Relationship Renovation dot com. It has all of our podcast episodes. You know, if you're in Arizona and you feel like you want to have counseling, that's great. We're, we have an R and R at Home program when the pandemic hit. So we kind of developed this model for At Home, but it's definitely not for couples like in a lot of distress because that could actually make it worse. And I'm actually working on a relationship Ready for Yourself model for people who are not in a couple ship but like can identify red flags for themselves. And yeah, so our, our website has it all. Our little social.
- [41:42]
A
I will put that there because people are going to want some more terror after they listen into this. Thank you so much for coming on the Love youe Life show.
- [41:49]
B
Oh, I'm so excited. Thank you.