Invisible Labor, Good Girl Conditioning, and Why So Many Moms Feel Anxious and Exhausted

Summary

Love Your Life Show: Personal Growth, Mindset, + Habits for Busy Moms

Episode Summary:

Invisible Labor, Good Girl Conditioning, and Why So Many Moms Feel Anxious and Exhausted
Host: Susie Pettit
Guest: Dr. Danielle Dowling, author of Good Girl, Bad Mom
Episode Date: March 25, 2026

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Overview

This episode is a candid, compassionate exploration of the hidden emotional, mental, and social burdens moms carry—including invisible labor and the pressures of “good girl” conditioning. Host Susie Pettit and guest Dr. Danielle Dowling dive deep into why so many mothers feel exhausted, anxious, and unseen, and how cultural expectations conspire to keep women overwhelmed. Dr. Dowling, therapist, life coach, and author, shares insights from her book Good Girl, Bad Mom: part memoir, part rally cry, part practical guide for breaking free from these cycles.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Heart of Good Girl, Bad Mom

[04:00] Dr. Dowling:

• The book is a “love letter to all moms who have ever felt imperfect, overwhelmed, or like they’ve mile through the struggle.”
• It began as a series of personal journals, written in private moments of pain and honesty, eventually transforming into a collective call to arms for mothers and women everywhere.
• It’s for any woman “who loves her kiddos just deeply and fiercely but also misses herself.”
• Dr. Dowling wrote the book she once needed but couldn’t find: a voice that names and soothes the secret shames and contradictions of motherhood.

2. Naming the Shame and the Setup

[07:09] Susie Pettit:

• Praised the book’s definition of shame as “should have already mastered everything.”
• The overwhelming assumption in motherhood is that “we should know what we’re doing” and if we don’t, it’s a personal failure—fueling secrecy and isolation.

[08:21] Dr. Dowling:

• What mothers experience as “shame and anxiety and overwhelm is often what I call good girl conditioning activated…in a role that requires everything from you all the time.”
• Motherhood is a “setup”: women are raised to be agreeable, low-maintenance, always pleasing; then handed a job that requires complete personal sacrifice.

“Women are taught to be good girls—agreeable, impressive, low maintenance at all times—then we’re handed a role that requires everything.” —Dr. Dowling [09:00]

3. Good Girl Conditioning—What Is It?

[13:21] Dr. Dowling:

• Defines good girl conditioning as “an invisible contract,” made up of subconscious rules absorbed over time:
  • Be nice
  • Don’t need too much
  • Don’t disappoint anyone
  • Don’t be angry
  • Don’t make anyone uncomfortable
• Worth gets fused with the ability to perform, to please, to over-function.
• Admitting that motherhood is hard is difficult because “if I admit I don’t like this… my worth takes a hit.”

“A good mom in this context is basically a good girl with a diaper bag: always agreeable, always impressive, selfless to the point of self-erasure.” —Dr. Dowling [15:00]

4. Invisible Labor—Why the Exhaustion?

[18:59] Dr. Dowling:

• Highlights the need for culture-wide acknowledgment that motherhood is "a job as well as a blessing."
• Invisible labor (planning, emotional work, tracking tasks) is real labor—culture’s silence compounds mothers’ struggles.
• True change will only come when women begin to honor this in themselves and each other.

5. How Good Girl Conditioning Shows Up & How to Break Free

Signs you’re stuck in good girl/good mom mode:

• Saying “yes” when your whole body says “no”
• Feeling resentful, unappreciated, or like a household manager
• Never resting—guilty to rest until “everything is done,” but nothing’s ever done
• Feeling quietly angry or burnt out, but unable to speak your needs
• Judging other women and yourself for not meeting impossible standards
• “If it feels like a lot, it is. It isn’t you. It’s a setup. You’re not broken, you’re burdened.” —Dr. Dowling [53:02]

6. Practical Steps & Tools

[33:45] Slivers of Self-Care:

• Dr. Dowling advocates for “slivers of self-care”—tiny, doable rituals (3-9 minutes) to reconnect with your own needs.

[41:12] Anchoring Statements:

• Use simple mantras to break the tie between worth and performance, e.g.,
  • “I’m not here to be impressive. I’m here to be whole.”
  • “My presence, not just my performance, holds value.”

[48:03] Delegation Map:

• Create a visible plan for household labor.
  • Decide who “owns” (not just helps with) a task. Use names/initials and a defined timeframe.
  • Make all responsibilities explicit, even the “little” things.
  • When delegating, it’s not about others helping you, but about everyone contributing to the household.

[50:59] Turn invisible labor visible:

• “When we delegate, we hand [the task] over…get that task out of our head.”
• Let consequences occur when tasks aren’t done by the assigned owner to foster real responsibility.

7. Modeling Change—for Ourselves, Each Other, and Culture

[20:56] & [23:08] Susie Pettit:

• Encourages mothers to shift from judgment to solidarity: support other moms, acknowledge the challenges, and offer understanding instead of criticism.
• “Everyone is doing what’s right for their family.”
• Real change starts at home, in small daily acts—then ripples out culturally and generationally.

8. Messages of Encouragement

[52:52] Dr. Dowling:

• “You matter. Your feelings matter. Your thoughts matter. Let’s start honoring them—even with just three minutes of self-care a day.”
• “If it feels like a lot, it is. It isn’t you. It’s a setup. You’re not broken, you’re burdened…stop blaming yourself so you can start changing the story.”
• [53:41] Susie: “You’re not broken. There’s nothing wrong with you.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Shame is: should have already mastered everything.” —Susie Pettit [07:09]
• “Motherhood is a setup…culture ignores it because it’s built on the assumption that the woman will endure.” —Dr. Dowling [09:00]
• “Selfless to the point of self-erasure.” —Dr. Dowling [15:00]
• “Until we as mothers really acknowledge it as a job, I don’t know the culture will do it.” —Dr. Dowling [19:16]
• “We’re all running around thinking everyone has it together, and we’re the one failing. But shame loves secrecy—and it continues.” —Susie Pettit [07:32]
• “You have to value yourself beyond performance, otherwise you’ll never put down the good girl conditioning.” —Dr. Dowling [42:43]
• “You’re not broken, you’re not alone. You’re just burdened.” —Dr. Dowling [53:27]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:00 – Dr. Dowling introduces Good Girl, Bad Mom and its origins as secret journal entries
• 08:21 – Good girl conditioning and the “setup” of modern motherhood
• 13:21 – Defining good girl conditioning and its impact on self-worth
• 15:00 – The dangers of fusing self-worth with productivity
• 18:59 – Invisible labor and the need for cultural acknowledgment
• 33:45 – The power of micro self-care and beginning small changes
• 41:12 – Creating anchoring statements to break old patterns
• 48:03 – The Delegation Map: Practical steps for making invisible labor visible
• 52:52 – Dr. Dowling leaves listeners with messages of encouragement and hope

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Final Takeaways

• You are not alone. The exhaustion and anxiety many mothers feel is a systemic setup, not a personal failing.
• Motherhood is both a blessing and a job. Culture’s silence about the burdens mothers bear is damaging—start by acknowledging that emotional labor is real work.
• Support each other. Judgment between women keeps the cycle spinning; model encouragement and understanding.
• Start small. Whether it’s a 3-minute ritual or delegating one chore, change starts in everyday moments.
• Your feelings matter. Honor them with self-care, awareness, and a willingness to question old stories.

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How to Learn More

• Get Dr. Danielle Dowling’s book, Good Girl, Bad Mom — recommended as an essential gift for every mother.
• For more on Susie Pettit’s coaching and empowering resources, visit smbwell.com or @smb.wellness on Instagram.

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Summary crafted to preserve the voices, experiences, and accessible wisdom of both Dr. Dowling and Susie Pettit. Useful for those who haven’t listened—providing actionable ideas and the emotional charge of their conversation.

Transcript

[A]

Oh warriors, settle in for this one. Grab your warrior notebook and your pen. I am so excited for the conversation I just had with this amazing human that I'm going to introduce you to. She just you will want to listen to this several times and you will want to run out and grab her book also. So who am I talking to? I am talking to Dr. Danielle Dowling. She is a, she's just an amazing resource. She's has, she's a parenting guru. She has the hack. She's a therapist trained life coach and she is a mom who is living it. She also has a deep knowledge of invisible labor and what is going on in our society right now with women that she speaks to in a really kind hearted and empowering way. She is just the message you need in your ears right now. In her book is the book we need to be giving, gifting to all of our new moms at their baby showers, giving to our friends at their kids 5th birthday. Handing, handing around like candy for how it will feel to our hearts. It was, it's covered in highlighting for me. So her book Good Girl, Bad mom is part memoir, manifesto and a movement. It is raw, funny and fiercely compassionate and a take helps us see womanhood and the burdens that we carry in a way that that needs to be told. It really dives into invisible labor, devotion, overwhelm. We get into it in this show. It is a deeply uplifting and deeply connecting conversation. We've already decided that we're friends and we are just going to need to see each other in real life. So this is. I'm so excited for you to listen in and I'm really calling on you and all of us. If systems are going to change and and how we're feeling is going to change, we get to be the change. And one way to be the change is share this show. Another way to be the change. Buy the book. Let's go. Let's bring this amazing woman and share this amazing conversation we had with you. Amazing listener. Love you. Let's go.

[B]

Hi. This is the Love youe Life show with Susie Pettit, certified life and wellness coach. Join Susie as she helps you with your wellness and mindset to use can live a life you love. Let's go warriors.

[A]

All right and welcome to the Love youe Life Show. Dr. Dowling, I am so excited to have you here.

[C]

I am so excited to be here. I woke up excited for this conversation and it is the best part of my day.

[A]

It really like our energy is popping listeners. This is just Gonna be a great conversation.

[C]

Let's do it every Tuesday. I'll see you here next week.

[A]

So good. And part of why energy is so exciting is, is the work and the resources, the. The expertise that we're about to share with the listeners. I get a lot of books to review for this podcast and people you know that might be potential guests. And I frankly have all good intentions of reading them. But often, you know, I look over what I need to get for the podcast so I can get the most to support my listeners. But your book was just different from the beginning. Like, I just was pulled right in by your story. And as I was reading, it just spoke to my soul. Not to be too like, but it really did. It felt like you were talking to and healing some of my past. You know, mama heart hurts. While also putting to words what so many women need to hear. And I am so glad that we're having this conversation and that you have this book. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And for someone who doesn't yet have the book, even though by the time this airs, go get it. But can you please explain what Good Girl Bad mom is, why you wrote it, and and who it's for, please?

[C]

Sure, sure. Thank you. And thank you so much again for having me. I'm just so elated. Where should I begin? So Good Girl Bad mom is a love letter to all moms who have ever felt imperfect or overwhelmed or like they've mile through the struggle. It is a memoir, but it's more than a memoir. It is a rally cry. It is a call to arms for every woman who's ever felt like her needs were negotiable. This was the book that I was never going to write. My insides on the outsides. I had a certain level of shame when it came to how difficult the work of motherhood really was. The reality of it, what I was experiencing and the book started really as journal entries to myself, as a type of therapy for me to process at that point a lot of bottled up feelings and thoughts and corrosive belief systems. And I had stuffed it down for so long that I felt like I couldn't keep it inside anymore. And I wasn't yet brave enough, courageous enough to say what I was really thinking and feeling out loud to anyone else. But I felt like I could at least season therapist and life coach, take pen to paper myself and just do my myself that favor and that kindness of like, well, let me just get it out, just from me to me. And that's where the book Started. It is for the woman who loves her kiddos just deeply and fiercely, but also misses herself. Yes. So there's that very real contradiction inside. It is for new and future mothers who are looking for an honest and supportive roadmap to motherhood before they feel blindsided by it. So really I kind of like to say if you've ever rocked a baby to sleep while like holding back tears, right then this book is for you. So I'll pause there. I don't. I want to make sure I answered all your questions.

[A]

Yeah, you did it. Basically, it's for everyone everywhere. Because it definitely is. And it's also for non moms, I'd say, to get, you know, to help. Because we're all mother, you know, for. We're just helping other people and we're. It's for. It's everyone. It's for everyone. I. You said, you know, one of the reasons why maybe you were shying away from writing this book is because of the shame that you felt. And that is one of the things that I loved in your book where you defined shame as should have already mastered everything.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, oh, yes. And that is so the paradox of mothering is that we. There really is this messaging that we should know what we're doing. Oh, just, you know, just listen to your heart, listen to your soul. I'm like, well, my heart and soul want friggin sleep. And I'm really irritated. And then I feel shame. And that should have already mastered everything. I should know this, I should be feeling better. And that, I think is why your book was speaking so much to me. That, you know, I was in my own little head as a mom and looking around at the other moms thinking, oh, they have it all together. They aren't having the feelings that I'm having inside. I'm all alone. Which we know, shame loves secrecy and. And that heaviness that just continues, you know, in that. So that your book really felt like a balm to my soul in that, like, you're not alone and no, of course you haven't mastered everything. Could you explain? Because your title, Good Girl, Bad mom really touches on, you know, this good girl conditioning. And could you speak a little bit about how, you know, good girl can, like, why is it so common?

[C]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And thank you, thank you for leading us there. And I would say, like, as a bridge right into that, what we experience as shame and that anxiety and that overwhelm in motherhood is often what I call good girl conditioning activated. In a role that requires everything from you all the time. So, mom. Yes. And then it's found by the flames of a system that survives on invisible labor. So, so, meaning if you feel like you're doing a lot, you are. It's not just in your head. Yeah. And in some ways, I, I will say that motherhood is a setup. And I know that that can be very controversial, but I, I, I feel like it is a setup because women are taught to be good girls, were taught to be agreeable and impressive and low maintenance at all times. And then again, we're handed a role that requires everything. And when we inevitably feel overwhelmed, we internalize that as personal failing. And culture, on the other hand, largely ignores it because it's built on the assumption that the woman will endure. So we're set up for failure from the very beginning. And historically, we've been set up that way. Presently, we're set up that way. We are just more and more and more women are finding the courageousness to speak up about how they are overwhelmed and overstimulated. And yet we're still not at a place where we culturally acknowledge that motherhood is a lot of work, that it's not just a joy, but it's a job. Yes. And because we're not doing that, we get stuck in this good girl conditioning. And I can talk a little bit more about the good girl conditioning now, if you like. Yeah.

[A]

I don't want people to skip over that, that, that the very, the setup. I really like how, you know, how to look at it through that lens and that, like, we really are taught, like, don't have any needs. Be quiet. Be the good girl. Don't rock the boat. And then we're given this job that requires absolutely every ounce of us, every, every piece of us from the, from the beginning of having the kid. And your birth story was so well told and just, I think, will bring many people back to their own experiences of this. Like, isn't this great? And you're like, what part?

[C]

Like, worst day of my life all at once. And that was, But I wasn't allowed to say, right. Or I didn't feel like I was allowed to say, but I, it didn't feel like I was allowed to say. That was horrific. That was terrible. It was really hard to be in labor for 16 plus hours. It was terrifying to push for almost 2 and him not to send through the birth canal.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It was horrific to be wheeled into an emergency C section. And then I was so drugged up, I couldn't Even really welcome my baby boy with the sense of clarity, Right. And awareness of present mindedness that I would have liked to.

[A]

And I feel like I might have been laughing over. So the audio might not have picked up where you said it was the worst day of your life. And that is, that's the honesty that is missing from motherhood. Even in pregnancy. I felt such shame where they're like, isn't this wonderful? And I was like, I feel out of my body. There were lots of parts that were not wonderful about it. But because of the shame and because of the secrecy and it is sort of this. It's good girl conditioning. But it's, it's women doing it to women too. Like, like, because if I said, well, it's really. It's weird. Like, you know, whatever's feeling weird, it's like, oh, oh. It's just like, put that aside, go. Because in order to keep the species going, we have to suck it up. It's like you've got to suck it up. And it to a certain extent. And what your book is drawing attention to is, is how that really got much bigger than possibly it needed to be. Because back in the day we had the red tent. We had, you know, we had more of a community. And now it's like, suck it up. Be quiet. If you don't have your hair perfectly parted and you know, your face and a little, you know, smiling. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, this is great. Sure, I'll bring all the cupcakes after I've been up all night with.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Vomiting Child, you know, my other. Like, it's.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And I manage all these other things. So I, I do that. That set up of being a good girl and you are a bad mom, sort of linked together in our brain is, is very important. So. Yes, whatever, wherever you want to go with this. Yeah.

[C]

So. So. Oh my God, there's so much I want to say to what you just said. But let me start, let me pick a place to start, which is. So I guess we could sort of define that good girl conditioning. Right. It's an invisible contract as I see it. Right. As I see it. So it is the training that so many of us get, so many women get spoken or unspoken, that it is our job to be agreeable, to be impressive, to be low maintenance. And it's the subconscious rules that we absorb over time. It's that inner script that says, be nice, don't need too much, don't disappoint anyone, don't be angry, don't make anyone Uncomfortable. And over time that conditioning ends up fusing worth with performance. And this is why it is so tricky for a woman, a mom, to admit that motherhood, she doesn't like it all the time or it is a lot of work or it's a job or pregnancy is difficult, or it's not all she thought it was going to be. Because of this connection as I see it, the worth performance connection. Right. So if I admit I don't like this, if I admit it's difficult, if I admit then, right, my worth takes a hit, my value takes a hit. So

[A]

your morals, something must be wrong with you, right?

[C]

So, so, so it's fusing worth performance. So if I'm pleasing, if I'm productive, if I'm pleasant, then I'm good. Yeah. And then if, but if I'm angry, if I'm needy, if I'm disappointing, then I'm failing. So it really teaches us to prioritize other people's nervous systems over. Or other people's comfort almost over our own nervous system is really what it is. Right. And, and, and then we read everyone else's reactions to us as verdict on who we are. And underneath all of that is this really terrified little girl who believes, who has linked love, safety and belonging to, with performance with something that needs to be earned. And so a good mom in this context is by that standard is, is basically a good girl with a diaper bag. Right. Always agreeable, always impressive, selfless to the point of self erasure. And so it's dangerous. It's a dangerous psychological like Rubik's Cube in a way. Can't say it, won't say it. If I say that I'm struggling with this, if I say I'm having a hard time, if I'm saying I don't, it's not all the rainbows and butterflies and joy, all that I thought it was going to be. My worth potentially takes a hit. And so it makes it as far as fight or flight goes, right. It makes it dangerous because now I'm, I'm putting myself in a position to not be safe psychologically. So it's, it's a hard guard to drop. And culture and society hasn't made it safe for us to do so. It hasn't made us. It safe for women to truly to embrace. Yes, it's a blessing, but it's also a job. Yes, it's a miracle, but it's also a responsibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You speak really well to that. That, that paradox, that, that yes, it is a Blessing. Yes. It is amazing that this baby comes from our body, that we have the, you know, honor of raising these kids, of being involved in these humans lives in this intimate way. And it is a total hardship. It will suck the soul out of you if you don't set up boundaries. And we are encouraged with our conditioning to not have boundaries. You just said self erasure. And that is something I know will resonate with my listeners because I have, I have a lot of listeners that are also, you know, their kids might be in their teens or out of their house by now, and they are sort of this like, wait a minute, who am I? Like what the heck am I? And I just want to get in that listener's ear and say, you know, no, no shame here right now. We can figure it out. And bringing your expertise and research here in that, like it makes sense that you don't know who you are, that you know better what your kid and your husband and your sister want for lunch than what you want. Because that's how we were trained. That's how we were conditioned. And one of the things you speak to in there is how are conditioning how our good girl conditioning and you know, don't rock the boat, don't be selfish. All this stuff encourages us to over function, to have that invisible labor and just suck it up, buttercup, and put a smile on your face and if you've any frown lines, we'll go get Botox because this is how we do it. Like, it's. It's like, do you know, like, join the mother club. Yeah, I want a different mother club. Thank you very much.

[C]

Yes, yes. I. I think it's really will lift and give womankind the greatest sense of freedom and peace in mind. And peace of mind. If we can fan the flames of the message that yes, it's a blessing, but it's also a job. And you're allowed to acknowledge the work of motherhood as something extremely substantial, as something that is extremely meaningful and complex and also absolutely essential. I think changing the larger conversation and getting overall cultural acknowledgment that the role of motherhood is a job as well as a blessing is really, I want to say, I imagine it to be sort of a groundswell movement. And the one not to add more responsibility, but honestly, the one that is responsible for that message, for spreading that message, is the woman herself. It's us looking at ourselves, going inward and allowing ourselves, giving ourselves permission to say, just because I acknowledge this as work, as a job, doesn't mean I love My child any less. And I'm willing to acknowledge it as a job, because until we as women, as mothers, really acknowledge it as a job, I don't know. The culture will do it. No, because it's well served up. I think the world runs on women's invisible women and girls, quite frankly. Invisible labor.

[A]

Yes, I think I. To your point? I do. This has to come. The change has to come from women because. Because it is. It's the inherent in everything that you're saying is this. This idea that we're wrong, we're broken, we did something wrong. It says deep shame. Like, I should have mastered this already. You know, all. All that. And instead of what. Really. It's the system that is wrong. It's the system that isn't supportive. And in order to change that, it does take us to show up differently. And something. When you were just talking, I got goosebumps. And I was like, yeah, yeah, this is it, Danielle. Like, I as a mom, my kids. My youngest. I don't even remember how old he is. My youngest might be 22, maybe 21. He's not listening, so that's okay, whatever H.J. is. But I have more energy now, so what can I do? I can get the message out to more people. I. When I see. See the mom. Because I think so much of what the challenge is, is judgment between women that we know that when we're feeling deep shame about something. When I'm feeling like, oh, my God, I'm a bad mom, I'm a bad. What happens? I'm more judgmental of others because I'm thinking, like, I'm trying to base my worth on what I'm doing. And so I'm either like, am I doing it right? Am I okay? They're doing it wrong. They're doing it wrong. And we get all judgy. We get all gossipy, like, well, did you see her? She didn't bring the, you know, muffins. Or she did bring the muffins. Or like, it's like, we can't do any right. And how could we start to shift that Is get out of it. As a mom, one of the mantras I love is, like, everyone is doing what's right for their family. Like, they're doing. I don't understand it. I don't think I'd be doing that if I was in their shoes. But they're doing what's right for their family. And so how can we, as women begin to model differently, begin to, you know, say to the mom at the Park. Like, I'll see the kid crying, and she's trying to get the kid quiet, and I think she's thinking that. I'm thinking, like, oh, my God, she's being so noisy or whatever. And I'm just like, oh, it's so hard, isn't it? Like, to her, I'm like, you know, can we just, like, give. This is. This sucks. Like, you come to the park, you have your fully thing bagged, and now your kid is crying because there's a rock in the wrong place. I'm so sorry. Like, can we just offer that love?

[C]

Yeah. When I. When I am without my son and I find myself holding a door open for a mom who's got a stroller and a backpack, and like, for whatever reason, the toddler is walking, but she's got the stroller, I hold the door for. Oh. She says, oh, my God, thank you, thank you, thank you. And I always say it to her, not a problem at all. You're doing the hard work.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Just as a way of acknowledging.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That she's doing a lot of that Acknowledgment is so key to the change that we're talking about here, because she. She's not allowing herself to acknowledge what a big job this is, because, again, culturally, we've been trained that. I mean, I say in the book, the unofficial job description of motherhood is kind of does nothing because it's not really.

[A]

Yeah. What do you do? You just make beds all day? Like.

[C]

Yeah, you just make beds, do laundry, and go to Target. Right. Like, it doesn't require any real skill set. And this is why, in something I'm ridiculously proud of in the book, I give motherhood something it's never had before, which is a job description. Right. I give a job description for the role because if we really honored the skill and the energy and the bandwidth that goes into being and what one interprets to be an excellent present mother, and that definition is different for every woman. Right.

[A]

Should.

[C]

Should be unique. Then. Then I would be acknowledging this job description. Right. Like, then I would be acknowledging all the skill it takes, the leadership qualities it takes. Right. The emotional resilience it takes the organization, the planning, the tracking, the executing, the thoughtfulness. I. There's a tremendous amount of work. Right. But no, nobody is really saying that.

[A]

Mm.

[C]

It's being the CEO of Disney in some way. Right. Like, he has a job description, so he know. And everybody recognizes the enormity of that because somewhere it's on a piece of paper somewhere, and everybody Nods their heads and goes, oh, that must be a lot of work. But we don't do motherhood the honor of that.

[A]

No. And then we dishonor it in ourselves. We undervalue ourselves.

[C]

So I think we do that because I think it's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. I. I think they're interrelated in that we don't do that for ourselves because there's no one out there acknowledging the enormous. Nobody is mirroring back the enormity of motherhood. And so a mother can begin to question the value of what she knows in her gut, in her experience is complex and exhausting and yet extremely essential. But she doesn't say it. She knows that's true, but she doesn't say it because there's no mirror for it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[C]

Or there's no, like, constant mirror or continuous mirror or.

[A]

Yeah, she might get little glimmers, but it's not. It's like the guy from Disney comes home and everyone's like, wow, you had a rough day.

[C]

Put your feet. You're the CEO of Disney.

[A]

Exactly. Like, right. I really enjoy, appreciate, and was grateful that you did put that job title in there, because that I. Other people. Some of the work where this change starts to happen when I'm working with individual couples or family systems is when they get out on paper all sort of the things they can. Like, what are the things you do in a day? Like, what are the. And then they start looking at them as a partnership and they start splitting them up and doing. You have a wonderful delegation map in your book that really works well. And, like. And so they start doing things like that in their life, and they start to take it over, because I do. Sure, we have the old couples, you know, that were, you know, made Gen X. And also even before that, that it's like, oh, we're very more gendered. But what I see now is you get people that go into the relationship and they're like, no, we want to be equal. We want to be equal, you know, partners and all of that. And then you get into it. But we. The conditioning is real. It is deep. It is in us. And so, you know, even though I might have wanted to share it with my husband, you know, him coming home and saying, what'd you do today? And I'm like, you know, covered in spit up and haven't run a load of laundry. I'm very inclined to say nothing or feel shame. Like, not much. I don't even have dinner, you know, but What I kept a human alive. Like I, you know, I did change, change the diaper, but so we're not valuing it. They're not valuing it and then it, it gets bigger. So yes, no one.

[C]

So then nobody's valuing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. But I think for the real change, I think to get culture at large to mirror back what a significant and meaningful job the work of motherhood is. It starts with mothers. Yeah. Because as we said earlier, I mean the world, the world survives off girls and women invisible. So it's it, it does everybody a service. Not everybody, but it does a lot of it does most people.

[A]

When we are over functioning, it allows other people to either under function or just regularly function live their freaking lives. And we're there like you know, keeping the lights on in the background. And for the listener that's like oh for goodness sake. Dr. Dowling and Susie like another thing for us to do. This is what they've heard so much on the Love youe Life Show. The. The secret to life and love and all the satisfaction that we want is we have to persevere through short term discomfort for long term heart. And that is the short term of in our individual system when the dishwasher is full, you feeling the short term discomfort of like oh, do I, you know, do I go to the delegation? Do I figure out the delegation map? Do I think you or oh, I'll just do it. It's easier if I just do it. It's friggin no listener. That's where it starts. You say like hey Johnny, you know, this is, this is now your task, you're taking it on and you use some of the skills, some of the tools that you've taught in your book. But it is in those little moments of feeling the discomfort and changing the narrative, changing it within our houses makes a difference. I like to think that I raised three sons that are different in the way, you know what I modeled. My, my husband cooks all the meals he like we definitely have done. He does all the laundry, he does the I'm. It is. There's a lot of work for everyone and I like to think that they do not have the expectation that their future partner is just going to do it all. Not that that's changes. It changes everything because we still have the women in their mind thinking they're doing something wrong. But that's really where we need to start. Sure we get to vote differently. We get to do the system changes. But what I see, I've always said like patriarchy and this whole like the patriarchal definition is that women are here to serve. That is, that is, that is in the definition that we are here to serve. And so we very much feel that. And I feel that it is our generation's job to get patriarchy out of our heads, to stop like to see where we feel that shame, to see where we're feeling, you know, when they're listening to us in the conversation and they're reading your book and they're like, oh yeah, I do believe this. I am seeing how I, you know, have erased myself and how I, how I feel that I'm selfish for, you know, wanting to go take a walk after dinner alone without a child attached to me. And like, so we can see how we have the messaging in our heads that we're being the bad girl, the bad mom, the. And to start to shift that. And that's going to feel short term discomfort, that's when they use, but long term gain.

[C]

Yeah. And to your point, in the book, I do talk about where to, I touch on where to start with that because I do acknowledge, oh, another thing to do. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be doing a lot another thing to do. And, and, and so the book could be digested and acted upon in several different ways. If you want to just read it as a memoir and a story, you can do that. If you want to begin to just change systems within yourself and how you process, perceive your own, how you self respect and self honor, you can do that. And then if you want to go as far as to be movement oriented, Right. And not just make amendments in your own relationship with yourself, but also, you know, with culture at large, you can do that too. Right. So there's all different opportunities, all different ways you can jump in. So I think that that's one of the beauties of the book. So you, I talk about the atom, right. And that the atom is a very, very small thing, but when it's split, extremely powerful. Right. So you just start with what you can do in the next three minutes. What can you do in the next three minutes that is a little more self honoring, that is a little more self respecting. Yes. And you just start there and you can wager way into the those waters, so to speak. So you don't need to take on more than you're prepared to in this minute, in this day, in this week, in this month, whatever that is for you, you can baby step your way through it. So even if it's just I talk about slivers of self care in the book, which are these tiny doable rituals. Yes, self caring rituals that you can perform in three to nine minutes. Right. Not a weekend away. It's very practical for our moms who are always busy. So for you, you might decide, you know what, after I get home from drop off the phone is going to on the counter in the kitchen and I'm going to walk around the block once and that is my 13 minute self honoring and self respecting.

[A]

You know your brain is going to tell you it's not enough and you and your brain is going to tell you but what about that laundry? And that's what I'm talking about. The short term discomfort. If we want things to change, you put the phone down anyhow and you go take your walk. Even if it feels uncomfortable and like you're doing the wrong thing. You're being a bad girl girl. When you walk, do it afterwards. Take a breath, put your hand on your heart, be like I'm still alive, I'm still going to get the laundry done. Or not.

[C]

Like yeah. And if I may, I'm sorry, I'm getting overexcited when you. I'm like, yeah. And, and I think this is, this is, this is what enables us to move into those slivers of self care. Those three to nine minute micro nervous system resets that respect ourselves I think begins with just acknowledging me or even questioning am I in good girl, like good girl meets good mom mode behavior? Is that me and do I need to release her? Yeah. So it sort of starts there. Like am I even. Just the acknowledgment of it. So, so you, you know, you're a good girl. You know in mom mode when you're saying yes but your whole body is screaming no, that then that's you. You. When you find yourself feeling more worried about do they like me then? Do I like how I'm living so more concerned with others and how they're perceiving me versus what I think of me? You're not resting, right? Because as you said earlier, you feel guilty resting. And until this is so mom, right? You feel guilty resting until everything is done, but nothing is ever done. So you never rest, right? You're quietly resentful.

[A]

PM and your rest is not actually restorative. Like I used to eat ice cream and then watch TV and then stay up too late and then what? Like it's just like this is my, my time, right? I really like how your book brought more my time into the day in these little slivers and so, yes, more examples, please. Because I think we're so disconnected. Like, as a mom, I felt like my head was not connected to my body, so I didn't know that my body was screaming. No, but what are some more examples of, like, that I'm in. Good girl, good mom. Like, I need to be a good mom.

[C]

So you're. You. You feel resent. You're quietly resentful. You know, the. The girl bad mom is like, she's quietly everything, right? She. She.

[A]

I'm fine. As I slam the cabinet doors. Yes.

[C]

Screaming inside. Yeah. But again, my worth is tied to performance. My worth is tied to me being good. And so I can't see say that I'm not good out loud in any sense of the word. So. So I'm. I'm probably quite quietly resentful. And that. That sort of how that might show up is in languages. I. I love my family, but I miss myself, but I just want a little bit of time. She feels invisible. She.

[A]

Does anyone get me? I feel. I hear that a lot. Like sort of a real deep loneliness. Like, does anyone. Where I'm surrounded by people all the time. Does anyone get me? No, they don't. Because you don't even get you. Like, it's. We get it. Yeah. Yep.

[C]

You. You. You feel like a household manager rather than a human being.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, you're just a machine getting things done and nobody ever really checks in with you again. Because it's built on the strap on the backpack. The store. Yes, exactly. Women just endure. You're obviously exhausted. There's burnout, there's exhaustion. I mean, that goes without saying. You're exhausted. This is the worst. You're exhausted, but you can't sleep because you're up at 2:00am you know, compiling tomorrow's target list. Yes, Right. And thinking about, what did I not get done today that I gotta get done tomorrow?

[A]

So why that lady look at me weird on the playground? And. Yes.

[C]

So, I mean, I think that those are probably some good.

[A]

I think those are great ones. And I think yes. And it is this. Resentment is a big one. Feeling resentful. I always say resentment is an emotion that shows us that we have a need that needs to be met. And what we are taught as good girls is we shouldn't freaking have needs. And so it's like this, like, crash course of, like, wait a minute. I'm not supposed to have needs, but I feel resentful. And so then I know myself as a younger mom, I would get resentful at my Husband, like he should just be able to read my friggin mind. I don't even know what I want. But he should know that it's not this. And so when he's like how are you? And I'm like fine. You know, but like what do I need? It's like Susie. And if he actually had said Susie, like why don't you go take a walk around the block. I am 99% sure I'd be like, oh no. Like I'd be in like mom martyr. Like I don't need that. I'm fine. Let me just finish the spaghetti. You know, like still going into my conditioning. And so I think we know we're in this if we're feeling resentful, if we're feeling judgy again. That was one way it showed up for me. Like very judgy of others. Judgy of myself.

[C]

Well, yeah, because it's, it's an interesting psychological sort of game we play with ourselves. And all people have done this at one point in time where if I'm doing better than her, right. If they're not doing well, that I'm doing better than her. So I'm doing well.

[A]

I can't be a complete mess up. It's like protective of our little girl inside. That's like how much about. Because we're linking the worth with the productivity again. Again.

[C]

Look how bad he's doing. I must be doing well. Look at everything I'm doing. I'm meeting everybody's expectations of what a good mom or a good girl would be.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Therefore I'm worthy.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Therefore I'm valuable. So it's, I think it's what I try to hand my moms and what I also just tried to hand over functioning women. Because you don't have to be a mom to be over functioning in today's day and age. Although I think mom and over functioning is just ubiquitous and I think it's. It's almost permanently tangled. Whereas you could have a woman separate of children who may not over function but you know, be nice.

[A]

I hope they're out there. Rock.

[C]

I was probably over functioning before children too.

[A]

But exactly for the male children around her. The boys. Man. Boys. Yeah.

[C]

What I did for myself. So what I did this also because remember the book started as a journaling exercise for me. How can I help me? I can't keep going on this way. I'm so angry. I'm screaming inside. I need some solutions. I need a way to help myself. And so I began with recognizing the good girl conditioning. Like, why do I do this? Why do I over function? Why am I driven to do this? Because I know it hurts me, but I do it anyway. And that led me to, oh, my worth and my value is tied to it. That's why I push through. That's when I. That's why I push through so much pain. Right. Because it feels very unsafe to question worth and value. Yeah. Because then why keep me around? What am I like? So the next thing I had to really do is give my inner good girl a good goodbye. Right. So almost crushing, crossing a threshold. Yes. It's kind of a ritual. It's a moment. It's a declaration of, oh, I see who you are and I thank you, but I'm ready to let you go.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then from there, and this is what I'm trying to get to, is that I work with, I created and I still work with these anchoring statements to help me detox from my inner good girl in real time as I'm living my life moment to moment. Because you can make this declaration. You can have this awareness of, oh, this good girl conditioning is causing me to over function paired with society's expectations of me. Right. And I can then decide I really want to release that integral girl so I can be better to me, I can be more present and more mindful and still a loving mom. But then you're going to jump into a Tuesday and you made this big declaration, but maybe you forget about it. Right. So I think we need these anchoring statements and these tiny phrases that unhook us, unhook rather our worth from be performance. So I've really worked with the statement, I'm not here to be impressive. I'm here to be whole. I've also worked with a statement. This was very important for, like, significant for me. I am learning that my presence, not just my presentation performance holds value. And that is so important to women and to our mothers out there to get that. Otherwise we will never put down the good girl conditioning and we'll be dragged by our hair for the rest of our life. By invisible labor. Yes.

[A]

By our own.

[C]

Because we have to value ourselves beyond our performance. If I can't find what makes me of value, what makes me worthy beyond what I'm achieving or accomplishing, then I'm gonna have a really challenging time walking away from that conditioning and telling culture. No.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

No.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yes to some, like, no.

[A]

No. I mean, yesterday.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Like I'll do eight of the 16 things I was doing.

[A]

I'm not retiring by my choice. I'm deciding what aligns with my values. I'm. And yeah, and I. I one I loved. I. I cannot speak highly enough about your book because there it does pull you in. Like, your stories are so heartfelt and wonderful and you really feel like as a reader, I really was like, oh, my goodness, yes, Danielle. And also you have. It's like, it's like part memoir, part journaling because you run people through the values you help us see, like, where we might be able to find these slippers of self care, what our anchor statements may be. You just like, bring all your expertise and coaching and therapy into there and you also give. So it's like journal memoir. And it's also like a go do this. So I guess I want to transfer a little in the interest of time when we're talking about, like, the change can happen within. Your book also gives a lot of good. Like, this is what you can actually do in your family, like, with the delegation map or if you could maybe help listeners if they're, you know, so what they can do to change in their houses is they can start thinking of where they can find these slivers of self care. Where can they maybe even just consider themselves? Like, you know, you had a question that you just reflected on. You said, like, how can I help me in the book? You also said, like, what might bring me joy today or make me happy. I put it in my own words, in my head. But that, like, just pondering, considering good girl conditioning has us considering everybody else. But like, just once in the day, if the listener could just ponder, consider themselves could be one thing. And then the other part of it is if they are like, okay, I want to start shifting some of these dynamics in my house. I want to start getting rid of some of the invisible, making it more visible and making it more partner ship. And could you speak a bit? You have some good scripts in there, is what I'm trying to get to. How do we say to them? So it's not like they're just helping us and doing us a favor and oh, poor you, Mom. Sure, I'll help you empty the dish. Because then we have to be that martyr. Like, it's so hard. I've had such a hard day. Can you do that? Can you empty your dirty dishes from the sink and put them in? No. Yeah.

[C]

I make a joke in the book, which I've given. I've. You'll remember this. I've given up on my husband puts his dishes in the sink, which is right next to the dishwasher. And they said it's basically a. Like, he. It's like finding, like, picking up the cereal bowl and walking all the way upstairs. Yeah. To our bedroom to hand me his cereal bowl so I can walk downstairs and put it into the dishwasher. I'm like. I'm like, the dishwasher is right there. Yeah, yeah. But like, I also say in the book, I. You know, I think I won the husband lottery. So we pick and choose, you know, like, he couldn't be a bigger cheerleader of me and my endeavors. So I deal with. I deal with that. But, yeah, like, it's. It's kind of like. It's like, why is your cereal bowl my responsibility?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And the same thing with my son. I'm really trying to teach him that.

[A]

I'm like, oh, I do it. I mean, that is a wonder. That is very. I very much taught that for my kids from the beginning. It Maybe because I was a single mom, too, that I was. I. It just like. I think there is that point where sometimes you cross. I like people crossing over that line of, like, saying goodbye to the good girl with the aid of your book. So it's a more peaceful, you know, crossing. Whereas for me, I think it was more like a necessity. And I was like, oh, f. No, I am done with this. Like, you ate out of that bowl, so what do you now do with that bowl? So the next time you want a bowl, there's a bowl on the counter in the cabinet. Like, you take it from start to finish, please. Yeah.

[C]

And.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And. And I. I have one child by choice, by design. I had him when I was 40, so I was already a bit of an older mom. But I really feel for the women. I think for women and parents in your position where you have more than one, you also. It's You. You almost have to have them. You have to have those conversations, those. Those conversations about independence and personal responsibility earlier, because you physically cannot do it all. I'm sure some women.

[A]

I feel like the conditioning's deep, though. I know. I mean, I had three. I had a friend with four, and she was. Until they left for high school, out of college. I mean, she's doing the dishes, she's doing the laundry. She's making their best bed. She's, you know, all of that sort of. So I. I think the good girl conditioning and how. We feel like this is our moral responsibility, Danielle, to do it. Like, so part of getting that out of our heads is what your book helps with.

[C]

So. So, yes. And so the delegation map, it really turns. I'll help with whatever you need into specific jobs. So we're moving away from vague good intentions. And this matters because in the. Well, it matters for a lot of reasons, but in the context of, like, invisible labor, partners can't step up if the work is invisible. Yeah. So we have to stop pretending that motherhood is magic and admit that it is a project that things don't just happen, which is what most people think, unfortunately.

[A]

Oh. Because we're like. They're like, that's so nice. We're like, yeah, it's nothing like, we. We're doing this all.

[C]

And that's back to our. Our message, our theme from earlier. Just, we have to stop saying it's nothing. Women and mothers have to stop relating to the work and the role of motherhood as nothing in order for culture to stop. Yeah, right.

[A]

Referring to, I thought in advance to put the crackers in the diaper bag with the. The sunblock and the water bottle, which is why our kid didn't have a meltdown.

[C]

You know, do you know, mental bandwidth that, like. So. Yeah, so. So it, it requires planning, it requires tracking, and it requires execution. Right. Like, we pay people in the workforce over six figures a year to do that kind of work for themselves or for a manager or whatever. So the delegation map is one tool. The. The way you can kind of get the system working for you, not just through you in your own home. And so what you want to do is you want to pick a time frame. This could be Monday through Friday. It could be the weekends. It could be Christmas break, it could be summer, it could be the month of June. You just pick your time frame and then you're going to decide who owns what not helps, but owns. That's a language swap. Right. And you're going to put an initial next to it. So there, you know, that person is owning that task. And it's not living in my head. So instead of we'll figure it out, the list says, for example, you know, my partner owns school emails and spirit days. I own doctor's appointments. We alternate dishes and bedtime. For a single mom, if we were going to adapt that to a single parent's lifestyle, it might look like. And we can get into the weeds about this if we wanted to. It might look like, if you have one, grandma or grandpa picks up on Tuesdays, babysitter is doing homework on Wednesdays and is there through dinner hour. Right.

[A]

And. Or like, sun is responsible for dog's water bowl.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's all these things. Literally. Yeah.

[C]

And then you can delegate depending on the child's age.

[A]

Yes. And then the mom. I think what I don't want to miss here because I. I do want to need to go to the next. I have a client that even though I could talk for 14 hours, but what I do want to touch on is that nothing is too small and we just get started and they. When we delegate, we hand it over that it's there. Then the owner. So take something as trivial as, okay, kid is now responsible for the water for the dog it needs. You said something very important. Get them out of our head. Like, get that task out of our head. So when we see the water bowl is empty, we're not nagging. We're not. We're not like, we're letting the dog, you know, and the kid is like, why is the dog. Dog licking me? You're like, oh, maybe she's thirsty. You know, the kid is like the fault. There might be some scaffolding to do there, depending on the kid's age, but it. It really. People need to get your book because you explain it very thoroughly in there. And this is where we start. We start in the little moments in our house and in the little thoughts in our head. And I appreciate everything you said. I. You know, the. This podcast is called the Love youe Life show. And I was not loving my life. I named it Love My Life show because I lived a life I didn't love for so many years because I was strung out. An overwhelmed mom who wishes that you had written your book 20 years ago. But do you have any final words of encouragement? You know, you are in so many of these strung out, overwhelmed moms ears. Or maybe moms who are like, I did it all wrong. Danielle, do you have any words of encouragement for that listener who, you know, that she may need to hear, who

[C]

is feeling strung out and overwhelmed?

[A]

Yeah, like feeling what we were feeling in our younger motherhood and alone and shame. And this is too much. She can't say it's too much.

[C]

I think I would say you matter. Your feelings matter. Your thoughts matter. Let's start honoring them. Even with just three minutes of self care a day. And I think I would say what I said earlier, which is if it feels like a lot, it is. It isn't you. It's a setup. You're not broken. You're burdened.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And you need to stop blaming yourself so you can start changing the story that was a lot.

[A]

No, but that's. That is like. And I'm like. The bullhorn is. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That feels like love to my heart. Thank you so much, Dr. Dowling for coming on. Everyone go Just scroll down below to get the book. Buy it. It is out now. You can get it. It will change your life. Give it to all. This should be the book that we give to people in baby showers. It should be the ones give to give the gift to the mom on the fifth birthday. Don't bring a gift for the kid. They don't need more plastic. They get the book, hand it over. It is a. It is the most loving thing you can do for your friend. Thank you for coming on and thank you for writing this.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you for listening to the Love youe Life show. If you want to hear more from sue and support the show, be sure to subscribe to this podcast on itunes. Also leave a review and share this podcast with friends and family. Go get em warriors.