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Love Your Life Show: Personal Growth, Mindset, + Habits for Busy Moms
The Bedroom Gap with Dr. Maria Sophocles
00:48:46
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- [00:01]
Susie Pettit
Hello listeners of the Love youe Life show. I am so excited that you clicked play on this episode. We have a return guest. You enjoyed listening to her expertise and knowledge so much in the past. I brought her back and last time we were talking about myths around menopause and perimenopause. This time we're talking about her new book, the Bedroom Gap. So if you have ever had any of the questions like what happens to sex and in midlife, why don't women want sex anymore? What is sexual burnout?
- [00:34]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Hey.
- [00:34]
Susie Pettit
Dr. Maria Sophocles is on the show today to talk about. She's a menopause expert, a sexual pleasure promoter, women's health advocate, Ted speaker, pioneering gynecologist. She's been in the practice for 29 or 30 years. Supercharged public speaker. She has such a warm, inviting way of talking about all these things that we just don't talk about. So she has answers and ideas, lots of them. Plus practical solutions to help us and our partners. So listen in. I'm so excited. And then give her some love on. I'll put the links below in the show notes for sure. Get her book. I cannot wait. If you're listening to this, whenever you're listening to this, the book is out now. I recorded it before the book is out so I've pre ordered it. But you can get it. So let's go. And yay.
- [01:22]
Podcast Narrator
Hi. This is the Love youe Life show with Susie Pettit, certified life and wellness coach. Join Susie as she helps you with your wellness and mindset so you can live a life you love. Let's go warriors.
- [01:35]
Susie Pettit
Hello and welcome again to the Love youe Life Show. Dr. Safaklis, I'm so excited to have you here. Your last episode on Busting the Myth of Menopause is still a top downloaded episode and this one on the bedroom gap is going to be. I have great expectations for it because of. I know the subject we're talking about. So thank you for coming.
- [01:58]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Oh, it's so great to be with you. I wish I was really with you.
- [02:02]
Susie Pettit
But gather in a video event over here in Australia. That would be nice. I know. And so can you share? We are here mostly to talk about your new book and what you term the bedroom gap and what inspired you to write the Bedroom Gap and why, why are you thinking? Because I agree. Why are you thinking? We all need to talk about this. Yeah.
- [02:27]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
The bedroom gap is a concept, a term that I came up with because I kept hearing about the orgasm gap. Oh, there's a difference in rates of orgasm between men and women. And I went, yeah, okay, there is. But it didn't feel like it was really telling the whole story. I would have women. I've been a doctor for 30 years and I've watched women come into my office just saying either that they felt broken or they didn't know what was wrong with them, but they didn't want to have sex anymore. But their male partner seemed to want to always have sex. And by the way, this happens in same sex couples too. Sometimes there's one who's sort of sexually deficient or not deficient, but wanting less, and someone who's wanting more. But the bedroom gap really refers to the difference in expectations and abilities between couples. Again, could be same sex, could be male, female. And the book looks at the causes for that, the sources of those stereotypes. Why do women come into a bedroom feeling like men have needs and I have to have sex because he wants to to? Why is the kind of dictionary definition of sex penis in vagina until male ejaculates then fall asleep? Why does porn portray that myth over and over in all kinds of different and sometimes toxic and dangerous ways? And why have women for literally 4000 years not felt that sexual pleasure was their realm, that sexual pleasure was a man thing, and if they could get it, wow, that's cool. We got icing on our cake. And I think these were the questions that I was struggling with when my patients would come in with these stories. And I kept feeling like, why are these women, whether they're black, brown, white, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, wealthy, impoverished, educated, uneducated. It crossed all barriers. Why are they all sharing some of these ideas? And so I started researching and I started talking to sexual researchers, sexual health researchers, to feminist philosophers, to my mentors in gynecology, trying to get different lenses to look through this. And. And the book is really kind of a. An amalgam of that. It's a blend of how come, how come this exists? Where did we come from, where we are now, what sex life today and how to reclaim sexual pleasure for yourself or how to create script that gives you the ability to have a fulfilling sex life. And by the way, that's whether you're 20, 40, 60, or 80, it is not just a menopause book. I started writing it as another menopause book and all my colleagues started writing menopause books. And I thought, oh God, this is just going to be another menopause book. So I tried to look a little more deeply, more broadly at the why not just the what, but we do cover the what. What is your me. How to have an orgasm, how to have a conversation about sex partner. A lot of, a lot of basic things are in there too.
- [05:52]
Susie Pettit
So, okay, so we need to get the book. And if people are listening to this live time, it is out now. So get it, get your hands on it, obviously, like, get that book. And can we dive a little? Because for sure, like, I want to talk about the menopause and the changes that happen, but what you just said really sparked some interest in me and just some of this doesn't change that. Why are we as women. I don't know where you want to start, but I'm thinking like two different things. Like, why do we sort of inherently believe that men's pleasure is more important than women's pleasure? That, okay, men have needs and we need to go meet those needs. And, and we need to add it to our list of, okay, do the laundry to meet the husband's needs, you know, this sort of thing. And then also that, because that adds, you know, as we age, that gets more where it's like, we have the kids and we have the laundry and that leads more to that sexual burnout. But then also on the other side, like, why are we not valuing our sexual pleasure from the get go? Why, why is it all about men and oh my God, don't wear the, don't wear the camisole because then he's going to be aroused. There's nothing about like, the man wearing the tank top because we'll be aroused. Like, I know where you want to start, but I, Well, I think that's.
- [07:06]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Literally thousands of years of roles. Remember, there have been lots of societies over time that have, have valued women as mere property. So if we were property, one of the reasons we were property was for the sexual enjoyment of the men who bought us or married us or enslaved us or whatever. And so it's not, It's. That's actually been the case far more than there have been liberated women looking for their own sexual pleasure. This doesn't mean that there weren't women in the Renaissance or in, you know, Catherine the Great's time or whatever, who, who were lucky enough to say, hey, sex is for me too.
- [07:54]
Susie Pettit
It doesn't mean that they get the red letter. And then, so, yeah, I get what you're saying.
- [07:58]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Like, but over time, when you look at history, it's much. That's the rule of thumb has much more been. Women serve men in many ways, right? In many ways. And one of those modes of service has been for male sexual pleasure. And you would think women like you and I, that wouldn't possibly bleed down to us would be deluded or it wouldn't, but it does. And the reason I know it does is after 30 years and 85,000 patient visits of women sitting one on one looking me in the eye, saying just that, well, I. I don't have any interest, but my husband really does. And I really want him to be happy. You know, that's just a deluded version of I really have to do this for him. And these are women with PhDs or CEOs. I mean, these are not, you know, these are women who have education and yet they still feel this obligation, this need. So why is it. I think it's just historical precedent really blended with sociocultural kind of standards. Right?
- [09:08]
Susie Pettit
And so. So we have that woman who is just interesting again, like, we have that, like, I want him to be happy and I, you know, like maybe the couple that starts when they have sort of more equal desire, you know, you're in that stage, you're like, oh, yeah, you don't have the kids, whatever. You're like all into it and you have some of that conditioning put aside. Because I think there is a period, at least personally, when I think back, there was a period where it's like more approved that you could like experiment a little or like kissing would be fun or like, it was sort of.
- [09:38]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
There was some always can. But I kind of want to go way back, Susie, to like teenage, like our sexual debut when we're first teenagers and remember it's. There's this dumb thing that we're supposed to be born knowing how to have sex, sexual things. There's not a formal. It's not like driving where it's like, actually you can't get on the road until you pass this test. Right. For the safety of everyone. Imagine if we had to have the same thing. Like you have to watch these three video, which. Which would actually be amazing. They could be about consent, they could be about pleasure, they could be about contraception. I mean, you know, there could be like a mandatory three videos, but we don't do that. And so people sort of have this. All people have a bit of an insecurity of, I hope I'm doing it right. Where do they go for learning to porn? Right. That's the most popular way people learn about sex. And unfortunately, the porn industry is globally governed by just a few conglomerates that are male owned, male funded, male directed and the films are mostly through the male gaze. They think, what would men want to see? And that's not a hundred percent of porn, but that's by and large almost all porn. Luckily there are some female directors like Erica Lust, who's, who are trying to make female forward or female friendly films. But for the most part what men see is, is porn aimed at them. And, and so that's what they think women want. Including increasingly physical acts. Right? Yeah, physicality choking, things like that. And that's, that's frustrated. And I've had women come in saying, I, I don't know how to say this, but I don't like that. And I'm, I'm Internet dating and that keeps coming up and what do I do? And of course I tell them, you don't do anything you don't want to do. Your boundaries again, they feel, they don't want to wreck the moment for the guy.
- [11:45]
Susie Pettit
And if it's all shrouded in secrecy and no one's talking about it, you know, we know that they're like, well, I don't like this, but maybe everyone else is doing it, you know, depending on our age and influence for sure. And, and Even, you know, Dr. Suffocles, thinking back, like back to when we were in our teens, like we didn't have that influence, thank goodness. I'm thinking for me, you know, that porn was not available, but it still was very male gaze driven. Well, and I guess also the, the part, the non education here is really interesting, this idea. Like it's not. Yeah. And so, so I was a mom of sons and I often, you know, one of the books that I gave all of them when they turn 18, and I'm going to get the title wrong, but I think it's called she Comes first by Ian Kerner. Yeah. Because it is this idea that like, not only should women just know, but men should just know too. Like, like there's so much there. It's like if you're a man, you know how to like please your woman, you know, in those. And how the heck do they, they don't have the same. Or, you know, they don't have, they can't like practice in the bedroom, like.
- [12:53]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And figure it out, read or talk to older men. But I think the older men have those books, so.
- [12:59]
Susie Pettit
And that's.
- [13:00]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Men today have nothing pretty much but porn.
- [13:03]
Susie Pettit
And so they go to porn and look at it. But then also for the woman, the woman is in that culture too, where it's almost that assumption that like he should know. So I know for me, when I sort. When I went, like, I had, you know, just my own experience with my first marriage and not speaking up for myself and then had almost like a. Okay, Susie, like, let's bring your sexuality back into your life, like, it's part of you. But learning to speak up and say, like, oh, a little more there or not that. Or yes to this felt really uncomfortable. And I was realizing, because I'm a mindset coach, like, so much of my mind was like, oh, the man should just know, like, that it felt like.
- [13:40]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
I was not fair to men. It's not.
- [13:42]
Susie Pettit
That's what I'm saying. As a mom of sons, I'm like, that is just not, like, how the heck with a man. And to go into it more with, like, innocence, like, I don't know, like, the growth mindset.
- [13:51]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Right.
- [13:52]
Susie Pettit
And that could be one thing, I think the other thing with. With the bedroom gap that I want to touch on that you said, you know, when we get in this mindset of, like, mixed desires, and he, you know, you have a busy life. You got a lot going on. We're juggling our growing kids, we're caring for aging parents, we're in perimenopause, menopause or whatever, and then he has needs, and. And we're feeling this pressure, and it's like, you know, like, you said something like, I want him to be happy. I really, like, sort of flipping the frame. So it is like, this is intimacy, like, sexual intimacy. Hopefully in a committed relationship, you also have some emotional intimacy. So could we possibly have the con as to why she's so stressed out? Like, we look at the bigger picture, the. The whole mental load, the emotional labor, the like. Let's not add something else to her list, but get a like. Because, you know, I think as I have been that mom with the busy kids, I never slowed down enough to. To really think, like, why am I so resentful about the sex? And why do I not want the sex instead? And if I had had, you know, some opportunity to talk with someone and say, like, oh, it's because I have all these other, like, do I actually want to have sex? Like, I think I would have said, yeah, like, do. Or do I want that part of my relationship to be more fulfilling? Yes, but how do we get there?
- [15:15]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And how. How do I prioritize it? Because prioritizing sex are almost never put in the same. We prioritize, you know, that. That the baby is warm. If we take it out for a walk, we Prioritize that we have to get dinner ready. We don't prior. It sort of gets sloppy seconds. And so I'm not going to prioritize.
- [15:34]
Susie Pettit
Something I'm not enjoying, first of all. So like, you know, like if.
- [15:40]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
But it's, think of it a little like exercise, right? How many people do you know say, well, I just don't have time to exercise? Because you don't prioritize it. You prioritize it and you put it in your calendar as if it's a zoom meeting with your boss every day from 7:30 to 8:00'. Clock. You will do it because it's there and it's, you know, you have to do it. If you just do it when you kind of have a free minute, you, you won't do it. And I think sex goes by the wayside because we lead very busy lives. There's no question. We lead lives based on productivity rather than pleasure.
- [16:14]
Susie Pettit
Yes.
- [16:14]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
So we, our modern day society prioritizes, you know, zoom calls to do lists, getting a raise, getting an A, getting a promotion, all these things that take work and none of them really take joy or rest or mindfulness or sex. And I think if you realize that sex is play and sex is fun and sex releases oxytocin, dopamine, endorphins, all these things, you know, we have all these biohackers trying to aim for longevity and they're missing one of the easiest things, side effects, you know, no supplement needed. You know, you, you literally, sex is linked to longevity. It is linked to a lower blood pressure, lower rates of depression, lower anxiety, less loneliness in older age. So all these really good things that are linked to health and wellness, gosh, we forget about that, you know, And I think because we think of it as just another chore on our to do list. It's like, oh my God, let me get that over with once a week, you know, and we could flip that script. And the way women can flip that script, I think, is to think about what actually brings you, if you're a woman, joy. Is it touching yourself? Is it a massage? Is it the shower head between your legs? What, what feels good? What. Not even what brings you to orgasm. You can think that, but even just what feels good. And women who say, oh God, masturbate. I don't masturbate, I don't have time. That just grosses me out. My mother told me never do that. My school teacher told me, never touch myself. You know, women have had so many awful messages from church, from school. Yes, yes, right. My friend went to Catholic school in Ireland and this is not to point out anything about Catholics, just one example. And they told her that masturbation was a sin equal to murder. I mean, what is she supposed to do as an eight year old girl?
- [18:16]
Susie Pettit
That's so scary because then you get the urge and you, then you think you're this like massive.
- [18:22]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Right, right. So I mean we have a lot of shame to overcome. But I tell women who have never touched themselves, masturbated, anything I say, start G rated. Just touch your arm, just stroke the inner aspect of your arm and see how it feels. Because for most people it feels really good. Or find a part of the body that does feel good, your neck, your whatever. Know what feels good to you so that you can learn to say that to a partner. You know what I really love and, and this is a great way to start a conversation to say, you know, last week when we were at the coast and we were just relaxing and you were just stroking my arm or, or giving me a scalp massage. That was so relaxing to me, but it was actually also kind of a turn on. Who wouldn't want to hear that? Yeah, right. And now your partner knows, you know.
- [19:13]
Susie Pettit
Well, and I, I had heard somewhere like someone, you know, for the listener here who's self development and all that I had heard. The guidance which helped me is to like think of a time when you had sex that was, or a sexual encounter, you know, sexual intimacy that was enjoyable to you and what was going on. And one of the things you just mentioned was the coast. And often when I, you know, I'm instructing my clients, it can be something like that. It's like, well, we're on vacation or like so what's that telling us? Like what can we learn about that experience or the environment you're around that you don't feel like a little kid is going to come into your room or a big kid is going to, you know, that you feel like you're to do things are done, you feel more. And then also like what was, what actually felt good? Oh, it was when he rubbed my arm or it was after we had spent all day like really having some deep conversations or holding hands or. But getting more into that investigative mindset.
- [20:07]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And I think women need context, you know, they. Context?
- [20:12]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, like our brain needs, I always say it's like the most important sexual organ what's happening in our brain.
- [20:18]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
This is part of an intimate moment or gesture. Not just, you know, I'm standing next to someone now I'm aroused. Let's go.
- [20:27]
Susie Pettit
Which leads me to this part, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think it's this part that like, the woman needs to. I think there would be listeners that like, don't quite believe that it could be fun joy. Like, you know, earlier you were saying, prioritize joy, fun, connection. Like, yes, we can prioritize it like a gym workout. And that is something to be like. I feel like once you have the conversation or the connection with your husband, like now for sure, like I prioritize it like a gym workout. Like it is. It is definitely like something that we're like, no, we just make this happen because we, you know, have been married for eight years and it's like, you aren't in that honeymoon phase anymore. You're like, you know, sometimes we'll get the urge, but other times it's like, no, let's make this happen. This is important to our relationship. We want to stay emotionally connected. So I've already. It's easier to go to the gym once you've had that buy off out afterwards where you're like, oh, I am stronger, my arms are less, you know, whatever. But for the woman who isn't there yet, who's like, what the heck? Dr. Sophocles, like, if there's what play joy, like, it's like a wham, bam, done, there's nothing in it for me. So how could we like get her started in thinking that, like, this could be something that she wants, that could be life fulfilling. It could be two things.
- [21:44]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Yeah. I think one is to get her to know herself, know what brings her pleasure. Use a toy, use your finger, use the shower head, whatever it is on your arms, on your breasts, on your genitals that feels good so that you know what feels good. Women who orgasm have a much easier time talking about what makes them happy sexually. Women who orgasm orgasm with a partner more easily. Women who orgasm from masturbation, that is. And so a recent study actually just showed that women who masturbate actually have better control over menopause symptoms. So that's an interesting bit. But I think knowing yourself is really, really important. That's the first thing. But the second thing is communication with your partner and getting the courage to have that first chat. And an incredibly huge number of couples do not talk about sex. They do it. They do all kinds of intimate things, but they do not talk about it. And the first conversation's the hardest. And I would say start by having it. Don't have it just before sex. That's the worst thing you could do.
- [22:57]
Susie Pettit
It's gonna kill the vibe, right?
- [23:00]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Right after sex. I would do it in a neutral time, like in a car or on a walk where you're both looking forward so no one's going to see this eye roll or weird face. And I would start with a compliment.
- [23:12]
Susie Pettit
Yes.
- [23:13]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Would say that you. Something you love about being intimate with this person is xyz, but I. But maybe something you wish for more of would be, you know, def. And. Or you could say, and there's nothing wrong with saying this. You know, people are afraid. They're afraid the partner is going to look at them like their foreheads. But you have to get it out there. You have to pop the pimple, so to speak. So I think one thing you can say is that, you know, I know we haven't had sex in a while, or I know we really haven't had sex much at all lately or for a long time. But say I really miss intimacy. But I have to confess what I miss the most is not the penis and vagina. Have an orgasm part. It's really the cuddling, it's the tenderness, it's the deep kisses you used to give me or something like that. And if you can even practice that in front of a mirror and say.
- [24:11]
Susie Pettit
That, saying it, not the deep kisses, I know what you're saying.
- [24:14]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And then practice saying it. And then pause, let it sink in, excuse me, and just see how it lands. I mean, some people will get defensive and say, well, you never want to. You always turn the TV on. And I think it's okay to own some of it and say, you know what, you're right. I've gotten to where I really don't want to. But one reason is that I always feel like it has to culminate in, you know, an orgasm. And. And frankly, I don't always feel I can come to orgasm and I don't always feel like it feels like a chore. And I hate saying that to you because I love you and I want you to happy. But I would love it if our intimate relationship didn't have to always be the same. If we could try just some cuddling and even say, in fact, I would love to set a little homework goal for us. Like every Friday afternoon for 30 minutes we're just gonna cuddle with clothes. Not no phones in the room, lock the door, nobody can bug us. It's just 30 minutes and just sort of cuddle and remember how good it feels to be skin to skin. Even if that's just hand to hand or knee to knee and say, I know that sounds so silly because we have three kids already and, you know, but say, I kind of need to go back to that to remember how much I enjoy that. And would you, would you do that with me this Friday? Like, let's just do it, you know, and, and you might have to take the reins.
- [25:44]
Susie Pettit
Yeah.
- [25:45]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Men never got to learn that. They really do.
- [25:49]
Susie Pettit
No. And I think so first to the listener who's listening and who's like, oh my gosh, I am not that close with my husband or I don't even want to say I really love you. And like, it doesn't feel. That's. Get some coaching, you know, like, that's a sign of the relationship. Like, we want, we want sexual intimacy in safe relationships. And I come from a background of unsafe relationships, so that to be said, like, for sure. And then if you are in a, in a relationship, it's just, it's safe and, you know, you do want to be with this man. It's just gotten, gotten stagnant and old. Like that old house plant in the corner that you've forgotten to water. What I'm hearing you say, Dr. Sophocles, and correct me if I'm wrong, is first, like, know yourself, like, know sort of what you like. Do you feel more interested in sex at night? If maybe he's like rubbing your back in the morning or he's, you know, when you're at the sink doing together, doing the dishes or like, and that's, you know, so know yourself. And then to get those things out of your mouth to say them to him, to say, yeah, and I, I like what you're saying about the conversation starting with the, you know, not in the bedroom. I remember listening to a sex therapist and she said, TTT tone, timing, toning and turf like to pay attention to those when you have the conversation. So it's like timing not right before sex, not right after. You know, your tone. So are you like, you never in and then the turf. I like your idea of, of sort of walking side by side so you're not looking like direct. That feels very uncomfortable at times. But to bring up.
- [27:23]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And no one wants to feel attacked. The same holds true for same sex couples. I have loads of same sex couples where one is just really into the sexual part of the relationship, wants to try all kinds of toys and wants to have sex as often as possible, and the other is, you know, perhaps for very valid reasons, caring for an aging parent or a sick Child or work is totally stressful. They're just not raised with that mom.
- [27:49]
Susie Pettit
Who told her she's, you know, don't touch herself.
- [27:52]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Right. Or was assaulted, you know.
- [27:55]
Susie Pettit
Yes. Yeah.
- [27:56]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And don't always know someone's whole story, especially in the beginning of a relationship. And so I think if you're on the receiving end of this kind of conversation, you need to be mindful that there could be more to it. There could even be menopausal issues like vaginal atrophy or what we now call gsm, genitourinary syndrome of menopause, which is just what happens to the vagina when we lose estrogen. That. Okay, I see that mostly in women mid-50s and older. But, you know, some women are menopausal at 43, so by 47, 48, they're. They're having severe pain with sex. And so don't for a second think that someone is too young to be having sexual pain or sexual discomfort. Bleeding, tearing, dryness. I mean, and believe me, when you have those symptoms, the last thing you want to do is have sex. So this is again, where com. Communication is the key. Is everything comfortable? And for the person who's uncomfortable to say, I really want to use some lube. I think it'll make it everything.
- [29:02]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, I failed.
- [29:05]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Just this I need right now. And I'm going to go see my clinician to see if I can figure out why, you know.
- [29:12]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, I really appreciate everything you're saying. And just this, you know, this idea that we should. To know ourselves and then to be brave to speak it up. And what you were saying about the gym, I think that really might resonate with my listeners and that if we can think of it as like, wherever, whatever age they are now that they're listening to it, if their sex life is not where they want it to be, they really. It's like they have a path in front of them. And one path leads to more disconnection, less sex, less intimacy, you know, sort of this like. And that absolutely can be the case, you know, that we can get this where, like, you can be 80 and never, you know, don't. Then you're just sort of sleeping in separate bedrooms. You're like that. Or we can take the other path, which, you know, the listeners of my show, I call them warriors because we do the hard things. Like that's the warrior path where you. You open your mouth, you have the uncomfortable conversation, you, you know, get the toy, you do the thing that's uncomfortable.
- [30:10]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Because that fight for your own Pleasure. Which is.
- [30:13]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. And like a gym. It's like, you know, yes. We could take the other path where we're like, oh, it's too hard. Forget it, whatever. And then we're, you know, 65 and frail and our bones are all brittle. Or we're like, yeah, no, like this morning I got up and went to the gym.
- [30:26]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Did I enjoy it?
- [30:27]
Susie Pettit
No. But I didn't even ask my brain for an opinion. And I'm like, just get in the car and go. It's like, we do it.
- [30:32]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And then after you do it, you are proud of yourself.
- [30:34]
Susie Pettit
I am proud of myself. And I am like, okay. And now I'm taking care. It just all overall feels better. And that's the same feeling I get now that I have taken. I was on the other path with my first husband, and now I'm on this, you know, more the warrior path with my second husband. And I always feel better. I always feel better after the uncomfortable conversation. I feel better. It feels uncomfortable. I know one of the things that my. And I'm just sharing this in case any listener has this too, that my husband and I both know that I like simmering during the day. That, you know, the female desire. Talk about, like, the male desire is more like a microwave and it's gone. And the female desire is more like the slow cooker. And so I'll say to my husband, like, I need to be simmered today, or like, I need a little more simmering. And so he just knows that during the day, like, he's gonna, like, rub my back when, you know, or like, tap my shoulder or he's gonna empty that. He always empties the dishwasher, which I'm so lucky. But, like, you know, that sort of stuff where it's like, oh, okay. And that awareness of sort of the team building that like, oh, this does help this.
- [31:35]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And understanding that we have different turn ons at different speeds and different. You know, there's something called receptive desire and spontaneous desire, which Susie, you probably know. But I think it'd be cool for listeners to understand because spontaneous desire is more common in men. And it's desire you get when you're watching TV and you see some really, you know, attractive woman or amazing woman doing something, or you're standing in line at the supermarket and the person in front of you is just super fit and super attractive or funny or whatever it is, and you're like, oh, my God. Immediately you start thinking, I. I could be physical with that one. I'm really attracted to that woman. Receptive desire is more common in females, in people born xx. And receptive desire comes often after we're aroused. You're getting a back rub, you're doing the dishes and someone comes up behind you and rubs your back or you're lying in bed reading and someone gives you a foot massage or starts kissing your neck. You start feeling aroused and then the desire develops as a result of the arousal. And the cool thing, the cool take home message for women out there going, ah, I have no desire, is that you don't actually have to have desire to have good sex. You can be aroused and the desire can come after that. And I think this is actually another way of saying we can give you grace to not have to have baseline desire if you have a willing partner who can, who can arouse you or you can be aroused by yourself by reading something or listening. There are apps now where you can listen to erotic content or watching something on tv. You can become aroused and then you tuck that away and then you have an increased desire for sex. So there, there are ways like that to.
- [33:32]
Susie Pettit
It's like the gym, it's like you just get to the gym, like just get in the bedroom or like just get the, you know, the, the arm rubbing and, and to me again, it's like so much mindset, like reminding your. Because when we're resentful and we're pissy and we're, you know, our brain is looking for someone to blame so we're going to blame him and you know, like the kids are, are hard, so let's blame him. And then he wants sex and we feel this pressure and we're just like, ah, you know, whatever. Versus like having some sort of mindset of like this is good for me long, you know, which path am I on? And let me just get in the room, let me just snuggle, let me just see and like just not beating yourself up that something's wrong, that you don't have this desire.
- [34:13]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Permission.
- [34:14]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, to have permission to not be.
- [34:16]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
What you think you're supposed to be. Based on Hollywood, which is a woman who has an orgasm from penis and vagina sex seconds after the sex scene starts standing up fully clothed. You know, it's like, like wow, okay, on what planet?
- [34:33]
Susie Pettit
In the shower, I'm like, how the heck that is like the most uncomfortable shower.
- [34:36]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Like 3 seconds after they get in the shower. And you know, that's just not, I can't say it's impossible. But you know, look, what is it? 80 something percent of women literally can only orgasm from clitoral stimulation. They don't orgasm just from penis and vag it anyway. But Hollywood, that's. That's not convenient for Hollywood. So we get a lot of misinformation.
- [34:59]
Susie Pettit
And then we don't talk about it.
- [35:00]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And. Yeah, yeah. And it sets us up for feeling like a failure person.
- [35:04]
Susie Pettit
We're broken. What's wrong with me? That sort of stuff. So I. I do think that, you know, the listener listening in to just, you know, the takeaway for me is to begin to learn about yourself and then also be open to have that conversation with your partner. Because if you don't, you're going down that other path. And I guess I just want to paint the picture of this other path that. Because I think people. People just assume they're like, oh, no, you don't have sex. As you get older, you're like. But it actually can be wonderful. Like, the older you get, more time, you have less kids around. You can experiment more.
- [35:39]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
It's.
- [35:39]
Susie Pettit
There's not as much pressure. There aren't as many dishes. And you know that that can be possible. And that intimate connection is. Is worth.
- [35:49]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Beautiful and. And it can build and build on itself. And also, remember, you have the luxury of not having to worry about getting pregnant once you're menopausal. Even before you're menopausal, you have the luxury sometimes of kids out of the house or more time. And I think what happens naturally is women start feeling kind of liberated, kind of curious about a bit of a sexual renaissance. I mean, I have some women that say, no, I just don't ever want to do it again. But I have a say. Either I'm divorced or I'm widowed or I'm single and I'm. And I'd like to see what's out there, and I'd like to learn about different positions and different things. And I've never used a toy, and I have a lot of women. And, you know, I thought, oh, it's all these menopausal women coming in their 50s. But I have women 45 and 35 kind of coming in saying, look, I'm not in menopause or anything yet, but. But I'm kind of feeling like I don't want to wait to have to learn about things. How do I learn about things? There is a very cool website, by the way, called OMG Y E S omg. Right? And it's. It's a way that people. People just put their own, you know, videos on that. So that's just one way, you know, I mean, obviously books, like the bedroom gap is, is another.
- [37:10]
Susie Pettit
Bedroom gap is a, Is a. Yeah, a great one. And I guess I'm just laughing because you were saying like all these people and you sort of, as women, I think we're getting this more feminist idea of like, wait, what about me? And we're learning that, you know, we have like, our sexual pleasure is important and maybe listening to us. And one of my clients, she's in a long term marriage. I think they've been married at least 15 years. The other she was telling. We were, we were talking about it in a session and the next session she came back. She's like, susie, my husband almost fell off the bed because she brought up a toy. And she's like, can we use this while we're having sex? And he was like, nice. Like he didn't even know that she had it. And she was like, we use technology in all other areas to make our life good. Why can't. And he was like so into it. But at first, his first thing was like, oh, my God, did I do something wrong? Like if something, you know. Yeah, it's both. Both genders are coming at it from a wounded place. And I think, yeah, for us to be like, which path do we want to walk down more that, that, that light. Oh my gosh, this could be better and different.
- [38:08]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
I think humor is often a good humor is great to say, yeah, don't, don't laugh. But guess what? I actually use this and I love it. Or I thought this toy would be a fun thing to switch it up a little for us. So let's. If it's okay with you, I'd love to try it. And I think the idea of novelty is wonderful.
- [38:27]
Susie Pettit
Big for women.
- [38:28]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
You know, novelty releases dopamine. Right. And this is why some people cheat. They need something new always. But imagine if you introduce novelty within the confines of a beautiful, intimate relationship. Wow. You get the dopamine hit without having to go have an affair and risk your marriage.
- [38:47]
Susie Pettit
Yeah. I mean, we could talk for hours on that. Because I feel like that's another thing I heard is that the woman craves more novelty than the man, which is not what we assume. But anyhow, I want to get to the. We've been spending a lot of time talking about the couples that were like me, that were like, it's like another. It's like to do sex like another list. And you're just like, but what couple that wasn't like that, that the woman Was her desire was high and she was thinking, you know, oh my gosh, this is, you know, they had a fine sexual relationship and everything was fine. And then she hits 45 and 50 and perimenopause and she's like, what the heck is going on? What's happening? And how can we help that woman who might be thinking, oh my God, I'm broken. This is done. It's all downhill.
- [39:33]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Yeah. And sometimes there is a, a hormonal basis. Okay. So sometimes putting that woman on menopausal hormone therapy, mht, which is estrogen and progesterone if she has a uterus, plus or minus testosterone. And in Australia you actually can get testosterone. I love it in America. I know, that's good. Sometimes these really help. They really nudge the libido. I don't know if you found that, Susie. And other times they don't. And if they're not helping, then you need to look at what other factors could cause this. Relationship issues. Self esteem issues. Plain and simple. Time, time, you know, too busy, big, big job, too much on my plate issues. I don't know. You know, kids still sleeping in the same room, mother in law sleeping next door. I mean, we have all different kinds of things that could just kill a relationship. But, but for sure, some of the emotional up and downs of perimenopause mirror the hormonal up and downs of perimenopause and the emotional downs can mirror a hormonal lack. So it, there's nothing wrong with seeking a clinical opinion and trying that. It's certainly safe.
- [40:49]
Susie Pettit
For sure.
- [40:49]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Please. Very few exceptions.
- [40:51]
Susie Pettit
It's totally safe that estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, but also vaginal estrogen. I know. You know, just.
- [40:58]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Yes, for sure. Well, that's for a different use. Right? Like sunblock. We said like forever. Like once you are dry down there, vaginal estrogen will make new blood vessels and new collagen. And you can use it forever. You can. There is no one that's contraindicated. Even cancer patients. So that's pretty amazing. You know. So, yeah, vaginal.
- [41:19]
Susie Pettit
Wait till they're dry.
- [41:20]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
I, well, no, I mean in an ideal world you would, you would start this sort of at 50, even if the dryness wasn't coming to 55 or started at the first sign. I mean, I, I think it's sort of silly for a 20 year old to use it because they're making plenty of estrogen, plenty of moisture on their own. But many women Even in their 40s, start noticing things drop off I don't.
- [41:42]
Susie Pettit
Remember when I started using it, but I will tell listeners that in addition to just feeling. I was. I wasn't feeling dry, but some great doctor in Australia was like, well, no, try. This is, like, just start this. Like, this is just what you do. And what I did notice, and I didn't realize they were related, but, like, bladder in comments, like, it helped me with that. I was like, okay, this is awesome, because it's attached to the bladder anyhow, so this is great. Do you just. While we're on this hormonal and you know, all the reasons why libido might be going down for the woman. Have. Do you have any expertise in talking about, like, medication and libido, like, antidepressants or GLP1s? I know nothing about it, but I had heard that some of these might be affecting.
- [42:26]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Yeah. So the most common medication that negatively affects libido is actually antidepressant. Those are still so widely prescribed. And there are many women and men that are listening to this program right now on an antidepressant. They're even used as menopause medications as well. They're used for anxiety. They're used when we try to deal with ocd. I mean, they're used for a lot of different reasons, and some versions of them will negatively impact libido. If you feel this could be, you ask your clinician or your, you know, the psychiatrist, the psychologist, whoever's working with you, whoever has prescribed that, and say, hey, is there something you could change that has less effect on libido? Because the answer is yes. There are certain flavors of them that have less. Fewer libido effects. Okay. So that's. That's certainly one thing. Or. Or drop the dose down of yours and see if that helps if you can. GLP1s. I don't find that to be, across the board, a libido killer. And maybe that's because so many people on GLP1s lose weight and feel happier in their new body. So they're actually like, I'm feeling great. I want to have sex now. I'm not ashamed to go out of the door. I look better in a bathing suit. You know, whatever. So I know that's been discussed, but I have to tell you, I have tons and tons of patients on GLP1s, and I don't have. I don't have a huge proportion of them. Yeah. So I'm hopeful. That's why that is. There are medications to combat low libido. Viagra is not one Viagra. Is not a libido enhancer. It actually works to fix erectile dysfunction for women. There are two FDA approved medications in the US for libido. One is called Addi A D D Y and it is an oral pill taken every day. The other is an on demand injection. So it's used more like Viagra. You give yourself a little injection that's a lot like a glp. One injection about an hour before you have sex and it releases a whole bunch of dopamine and you really want to have sex after that. But you know, not everything is covered by insurance. Not everything is without side effects. So it's worth looking into them. They're not, it's not that they're not all they're cracked up to be. They're not without side effects, things like that.
- [44:53]
Susie Pettit
Okay, awesome. You've given us so much information today. Thank you so much for the woman who like, she's already put the book Bedroom Gap in her small independent business owner's, you know, ear or her Amazon cart, whatever.
- [45:08]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Wonderful.
- [45:08]
Susie Pettit
I know she's got it because we know we want to get that. But what about like, is there anything that you think we could say in her ear? She's just feeling exhausted, exhausted, disconnected from her body, resigned. Like what, what could we say to encourage her? Or one small step that we could sort of support her.
- [45:25]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Honestly, one small step for. One small step for women is sleep, is get the sleep you need. Keep your sleep regular. And whether you need an aura ring to track it or you just try to stay within an an hour of your bedtime every day. When women sleep better, they're more interested in sex and they eat better. On average, women eat 250 calories a day less when they sleep.
- [45:50]
Susie Pettit
Well, like it's all about.
- [45:52]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Isn't that amazing?
- [45:53]
Susie Pettit
I know.
- [45:53]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Yeah.
- [45:53]
Susie Pettit
And we don't get the sleeping menopause, Dr. Sophocles.
- [45:56]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Well, I know, I know. So you gotta straighten that out. Right?
- [46:00]
Susie Pettit
Exactly.
- [46:01]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Look, go on my website, Maria Sophocles MD and, and you can, you can find me if you need help with that. But we should get your sleep straightened out because it is better. Sleep lets you have more interest in joyful things in life, including sex. I think that's sort of one thing for sure.
- [46:17]
Susie Pettit
Yeah, it's like getting the second is.
- [46:20]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Just practice, practice communication practice. Once you have that first talk and you're like, oh my God, that was so hard. You could say, what if I did this quarterly? What if every quarter I said, you know, what I loved was last Wednesday, blah, blah, blah. But I didn't love that. And the more you do it, the better you will get at it and at asking for what you want without being pushy or feeling anything other than entitled to it.
- [46:47]
Susie Pettit
Honestly, it really. It become, as, you know, listeners of the show, it's like the first time you do it, it's so hard. And then after that, it just becomes routine. I know. Like, even in the bedroom, like, the first time I was like, oh, could you, you know, do a little more on this side or, like, a little less over here? I remember when I first said that, I was like, oh, my God.
- [47:05]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Right?
- [47:05]
Susie Pettit
But now it's like, yeah, all the time, I'm just like, how the heck does he know? He doesn't have my body. And some days I like my breast being touched. And some days I'm like, he doesn't know, mate.
- [47:13]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Like, he doesn't know. He doesn't know.
- [47:16]
Susie Pettit
Needs to be told.
- [47:17]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
And believe it or not, most men appreciate it. They might even initially be like, what you know? Or whatever, but they ultimately want you to be happy and be satisfied sexually. They do. That's good for them. Yes.
- [47:30]
Susie Pettit
I think that is really important to hear. I don't want to skate over that. That most men like that is they get enjoyment out of our enjoyment.
- [47:37]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
They.
- [47:37]
Susie Pettit
In the same way where we are just programmed to be, like, the servers and the helpers for them. They're programmed to be the providers, and that's also in the bedroom. So it's that, like, it's a fallacy to think that, like, they're not interested. They. They might take just penis, vagina, like, wham, bam thing, because that's what they're getting.
- [47:55]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
That's what they know. But you can flip the script. You can close your own bedroom gap with some communication, a little humor, and some sleep, I think. And there's lots, like, a millionth of what's in here. So, yeah, it's on Amazon, so you can go on. You guys can do Amazon. Yay.
- [48:15]
Susie Pettit
Y.
- [48:16]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
All right, Susie, thank you for having me.
- [48:18]
Susie Pettit
Wonderful. I'm excited. Yay. All right, I will put all the links to your website and the book just underneath in the show notes, listeners, just scroll down and click purchase. Okay, thank you.
- [48:29]
Dr. Maria Sophocles
Thanks.
- [48:32]
Podcast Narrator
Thank you for listening to the Love youe Life Show. If you want to hear more from Susie and support the show show, be sure to subscribe to this podcast on itunes. Also, leave a review and share this podcast with friends and family. Go get them, warriors.