Look on Trump's works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Lovett or Leave It

Episode: "Look on Trump’s works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

Date: May 14, 2026
Host: Jon Lovett
Guests: Melissa Etheridge, Bosco

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Overview

In this hilarious and incisive episode, Jon Lovett brings the audience through a week of bizarre political headlines, focusing especially on the latest spectacles of the Trump administration, before joined by music legend Melissa Etheridge and drag star Bosco for wide-ranging, queer-centric conversations. The show delivers Lovett’s signature satirical spin on the news, taking aim at golden Trump statues, surreal government projects, and queer cultural touchstones. Through personal anecdotes, games, and off-the-cuff banter, the episode explores LGBTQ+ history, lesbian stereotypes, generational change in queer communities, and the delightful intersection of nerd culture and queerness.

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Key Discussion Points & Segments

Trump’s Latest Absurdities & Political Satire

[02:25–10:53]

• Trump’s “Honesty” About Americans’ Economic Struggles:
  Lovett lampoons President Trump’s blunt admission that Americans’ economy “doesn’t matter” in negotiations with Iran.

  “Not only is this damning admission… it also sounds like Trump is having genuine breakthroughs in therapy.” (03:19, Jon Lovett)

• The Golden Trump Statue at His Miami Golf Course:
  Lovett skewers the $450,000, 22-foot "Don Colossus" statue, noting its crypto investor funding and the ceremony led by Pastor Mark Burns.

  “Look at that fucking thing, whispered the antifa general to his two dozen soldiers inside of the statue.” (04:11, Jon Lovett)

• Painting the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool “American Flag Blue”:
  Trump’s latest patriotic “home improvement” is relentlessly mocked as a distraction from national crises. Lovett details the project’s ballooning costs, shoddy progress, and preservation controversy, highlighting the administration’s priorities.

  “The project would have been done by now, but Trump kept getting in the way, gazing longingly at the beautiful creature reflected back… trying to grope it.” (07:31, Jon Lovett)

• Iran War Renaming and Ongoing Conflict:
  Lovett satirizes the Pentagon’s plan to rename the Iran War instead of resolving it.

  “This is just like when I changed my rap name in high school from Algebro to Dr. Quadratic. Suffice it to say, it did not change the reality on the ground.” (09:30, Jon Lovett)

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Melissa Etheridge: Lesbian Visibility, Queer History, and Stereotype Games

[15:00–32:11]

• The Evolution of Lesbian Spaces:
  Etheridge reflects on changes from her career start in lesbian bars—once community hubs, now less critical post-Internet.

  “Now you can find us everywhere. Good Lord. We’re just everywhere.” (15:55, Melissa Etheridge)

• On Ellen’s Coming Out Episode (1997):
  Etheridge shares behind-the-scenes memories of the secretive, culture-shifting event.

  “It was called ‘the puppy episode.’ No one wants to talk about it. And then each of us—man, she had Oprah on… you couldn’t look away… you had to pay attention.” (16:54, Melissa Etheridge)

• Visibility and Coming Out in the 1990s:
  Etheridge discusses her own coming out and its context within “don’t ask, don’t tell” America.

  “I said to myself, if anyone asks me, I’m gonna be truthful… it was a don’t ask, don’t tell [era].” (19:17, Melissa Etheridge)

• Oscar for “I Need to Wake Up”—Did We?:
  Lovett jokes about America’s continued climate denial.

  “Given that we never did in fact wake up, do you think you should give the Oscar back?” (21:03, Jon Lovett)
  “I think we’re more awake than we know.” (21:13, Melissa Etheridge)

• Fans, Family, and Generational Change:
  Etheridge on how her kids’ perception of her success evolved and a story about inspiring Taylor Swift.

  “Taylor came up to me early in her career… ‘My parents took me to see you when I was 11 years old, and that's why I learned to play the guitar.’” (21:56, Melissa Etheridge)

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Game: “Like the Way I Subaru” (Lesbian Stereotype Lightning Round)

[25:07–32:11]

Lovett quizzes Etheridge on classic and new lesbian stereotypes, with Etheridge providing witty affirmative and corrective insights:

• Subarus:

  “Subaru… put Martina [Navratilova] in an ad… we said, yes, we will buy a Subaru. We have not stopped because they supported us.” (25:40, Melissa Etheridge)

• U-Hauling:

  “It's true. Yes. We love. Loved to make homes… this is like the second date, you know, and you're gonna fix that apartment up, make a home out of it.” (27:58, Melissa Etheridge)

• Carabiners, Hairy Armpits, Home Depot:
  Good-natured yes-and critiques about practicality, with Etheridge confirming the “fix-it” and “no need to shave” ethos.

• Lesbian Army:

  “You know what a lesbian army is called, right?… It’s a militia Etheridge.” (32:02, Melissa Etheridge)

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Bosco Joins: Drag, Trans Humor & “Magic: The Gathering”

[35:04–53:22]

• “The Marvelous Misgender” and Turning Everyone Trans (Satire):
  Bosco’s fictional show centers on a “transification raygun.”

  “...World domination, turning everyone trans… We haven’t really cracked the exact formula yet, but we got scientists working on it.” (36:21, Bosco)

• Drag/Queer Villainy in Pop Culture:
  Joking about a non-binary Biden advisor stealing luggage—“Queer people can be villains.” (37:25, Jon Lovett)

• Magic: The Gathering—Queer/Fandom Crossover:
  Bosco and Lovett geek out about the game’s queer creators, player communities, and inclusion of nonbinary and trans identities.

  “A lot of trans women play and create Magic the Gathering, so we try to insert ourselves wherever possible.” (40:54, Bosco)

• Building Trans-Lesbian Solidarity:
  All agree on the strong connection between trans women and lesbians in queer history and contemporary culture.

  “I feel like lesbians and trans women are natural porn allies.” (41:30, Bosco)
  “It was lesbians and the trans community at Stonewall that started it all there.” (42:02, Melissa Etheridge)

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Game: “Magic the Gathering (Kinsey Scale Edition)”

[46:15–53:22]

Lovett, Etheridge, and Bosco rank Magic: The Gathering monsters on the Kinsey scale (degree of queerness):

• Monsters are analyzed for “queer coding,” with finger length, color, and accessories being discussed as clues.
• Includes running jokes about bangers (short nails), angry bar lesbians, and a “hypersexual nonbinary ooze.”

Memorable exchange:

“That very, very crypt keeper… Kind of looks like the older women when I used to play bars in Long Beach… would sit at the end of the bar and complain I was singing too loud.” (51:37, Melissa Etheridge)

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Second Thoughts & Regrets

[54:07–57:59]

• Lovett reflects on jokes and moments he might regret, including whether the audience could change a tire.
• Etheridge and Bosco joke about the “sexual tension” and Etheridge’s admiration of Bosco.
• Playful closing:

  “Maybe just subjecting the audience to the raw sexual tension me and Melissa have in this moment.” (57:21, Bosco)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Who among us hasn't focused on petty grievances and home improvement projects to avoid facing the raging chaos and unsalvageable failures in our lives?” (08:38, Jon Lovett)
• “It's a militia Etheridge.” (32:06, Melissa Etheridge)
• “Turning everyone trans is the goal.” (36:21, Bosco)
• “I feel like lesbians and trans women are natural porn allies.” (41:30, Bosco)
• “We have not stopped [buying Subarus] because they supported us back in, like, 1991.” (26:40, Melissa Etheridge)

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Segment Timestamps

• Trump Monologue & Satire: 02:25–10:53
• Etheridge Interview: 15:00–32:11
• “Like the Way I Subaru” Game (Lesbian Stereotypes): 25:07–32:11
• Bosco Interview, Drag & Fan Culture: 35:04–45:39
• Magic the Gathering Kinsey Game: 46:15–53:22
• Second Thoughts (Show Closings & Regrets): 54:07–57:59

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Tone & Style

• Biting, witty, conversational: Lovett's signature dry, layered with affectionate queer humor.
• Inclusive and playful: Both Etheridge and Bosco bring candid, honest, and celebratory queer perspectives, with a heavy emphasis on community, culture, and the power of visibility.
• Deeply satirical but often tender: Even in games and roasts, the underlying message is about support, self-acceptance, and collective resilience.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers both political comedy (especially on Trumpian absurdities) and lively, intergenerational queer conversation. The Etheridge-Bosco segments are both nostalgic and current, blending history, identity, and pop culture in truly “you had to be there” moments—while Lovett’s monologue is perfect for fans of sharp, relentless political satire.

Skip the ads, but don’t miss:

• The “American Flag Blue” reflecting pool (03:55–10:53)
• Etheridge on the Ellen show and lesbian bars (15:55–16:54)
• The “Like the Way I Subaru” stereotype game (25:07–32:11)
• Bosco/Lovett banter on drag, Magic the Gathering, and queer solidarity (35:04–53:22)

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Lovett or Leave It delivers laughs, catharsis, and a sense of queer possibility—even in “Trump’s America.”

Transcript

[John Lovett]

This episode is presented by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Health Centers are the nation's leading provider of sexual and reproductive health care, including cancer screenings, wellness exams, STI testing and treatments, birth control, abortion and more. Today and every day, Planned Parenthood is committed to providing access to the care, information and resources people need to make their own decisions about their bodies and their futures. But the Trump administration and Congress are trying to take away that freedom. They defunded Planned Parenthood Health Centers in an effort to cut off affordable medical care for millions especially low income Americans who rely on Medicaid in an ongoing affordable Stripping people of high quality, affordable health care is yet another cruelty inflicted by this out of touch administration. Planned Parenthood has never and will never stop fighting for everyone's fundamental right to quality health care, regardless of who you are or where you live. No matter what. They need supporters like you in this fight. [e-mail] defend that's planned parenthood.org defend

[Bosco]

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[John Lovett]

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[Melissa Etheridge]

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[John Lovett]

by guests

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

hey crooked listeners, if you haven't become a friend of the POD yet, you are missing out on exclusive bonus content that drops every single week. If you do join, you're helping us, you know, grow Crooked Media, which is one of the few independent, proudly pro democracy media companies left in Trump's America. If you join, you also get ad free episodes of all your favorite pods. Ad free episodes of POD Save America. Love it or leave it offline. Pod Save the World. You also get bonus content like our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends, Dan Pfeiffer's Polar Coaster. You also get access to all of our excellent substack newsletters like Pod Save America, Open tabs and tons more great content. So stop what you're doing right now and go ahead and [e-mail] friends check it out.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Love it.

[John Lovett]

Believe it. It's Love it. Believe it. What's up Los Angele? Welcome to Love it or Leave It Live from Hollywood, I'm John Lovett, an underdog you root against. We've got a great show for you tonight, but first, let's get into it. What a week. On Tuesday, President Trump was get this honest when asked if Americans economic struggles were a factor in negotiations with Iran. To what extent Are Americans financial situations motivating you to make a deal? Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about American financial situation, I don't think about anybody. I don't think about Americans financial situation, I don't think about anybody. This is awesome. Not only is this damning admission going to run in ad after ad all across America from now until the midterms, it also sounds like Trump is having genuine breakthroughs in therapy. But hey, to be fair, who has time to think about American's financial situation in the middle of so many decorating projects? Last week, Trump addressed a crowd of supporters by phone at the unveiling of a 22 foot golden statue of himself at his own Miami golf course. Look at that fucking thing, whispered the antifa general to his two dozen soldiers inside of the statue. Don't strike until you see the whites of their golf balls. The $450,000 statue, nicknamed Don Colossus, was funded by a group of crypto investors, of course, more like Sam Bankman, Frida Kahlo, am I right? The ceremony was led by Pastor Mark Burns, reportedly Trump's informal spiritual advisor. Trump's formal spiritual advisor is, of course, Benjamin Netanyahu, said the pastor of the giant golden statue. Let me be clear, this is not a golden calf, burns continued. This statue is a celebration of life. It is a symbol of resilience, freedom, patriotism, strength, and the willpower to keep fighting for the future of America. But most importantly, a symbol of Donald Trump, said Donald Trump, speaking of blasphemies that would make Moses shit his robe, Trump proudly announced that the reflecting pool on the National Mall will be painted American Flag blue. Are you hearing about this for the first time? Yes, he's drained the reflecting pool and they are painting it what he's calling American Flag Blue. It is currently a kind of slate gray because it makes it kind of inky and reflective so that one can reflect as the water reflects in the fucking reflecting pool. But don't worry if you're stressed about gas prices. We have amazing news. We're painting the reflecting pool American Flag Blue. Worried that your boss keeps asking you and Claude the same questions and then comparing the answers to see who's better? Don't worry, we're painting the reflecting pool American Flag Blue. Did your doctor delay treatment for an ectopic pregnancy in order to consult with the hospital's lawyers, risking permanent infertility? Well, hang tight, little lady. We're painting the reflecting cool American flag blue. Did your cousin just get back from around the world cruise? And now has what sounds eerily like a rat's cough? Well, fear not, because we're painting the reflected pool American black fucking blue. A week earlier, Trump posted this AI generated image of himself floating shirtless in the updated reflecting pool with all of his pals. Oh, but when I print out an AI image of my coworker's shirtless and post it by the coffee machine, it's an HR violation. Sorry Hallie for giving you perfect knockers. Can't make a joke anymore. To paint the pool, Trump reportedly awarded a 6.9 million dollar no bid government contract to a firm that worked on the swimming pool at his Virginia club. Said Trump to reporters, I have a guy who's unbelievable at doing swimming pools. That's his quote. Trump doesn't swim personally, of course, as he's never gone 14 days without having active diarrhea. But still, it's a beautiful facility. It doesn't mean this contractor is right for the the job. The Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool is massive. How massive? Well, it's roughly 60 times the size of the pool at Trump national in Virginia. I'm not guessing, by the way. At a crucial moment today when Halle, Sarah and I were working in silence, working on this very show, I was secretly in Google Earth measuring the pools. Nevertheless, a White House spokesperson told the New York Times that, quote, this project is now being completed at Trump speed to ensure the iconic landmark is totally restored ahead of the 250th century celebrations. They got the name Trump Speed from the bottle of loose pills in the top drawer of the Resolute desk. But then on Tuesday, the New York Times published a report titled Reflecting Pool Repairs Appear Uneven and Behind Schedule. Uneven and behind schedule? What is this? Every pilot script I ever wrote the project. The project would have been done by now, but Trump kept getting in the way, gazing longingly at the beautiful creature reflected back at him in the water surface, trying to grope it. The project that Trump initially claimed would cost just $1.8 million has now ballooned to $13.1 million.

[Bosco]

Cool.

[John Lovett]

Amazing, said a colon cancer researcher whose funding got cancelled last year via an email sent by a Doge staffer with the subject line Smell ya later. A preservation group is also suing the administration, claiming that the dark gray achromatic basin was not incidental to the design, it was the design, and that the new coloration will cause the pool to resemble a large swimming pool rather than the reflective civic landscape. It was designed to be even worse. Trump wants to add a sign that says welcome to the Lincoln Memorial, reflecting ool. Notice there's no pee in it. Let's keep it that way. Trump also posted an image of himself on the hundred dollar bill. I actually think it's fitting you'll be able to use one to buy a gallon of gas. But who among us hasn't focused on petty grievances and home improvement projects to avoid facing the raging chaos and unsalvageable failures in our lives? Before loveless marriages result in divorce papers, they often produce perfectly organized hall closets. Something to think about. In a bracing piece for the Atlantic, Robert Kagan, a longtime neocon and advocate for US Military interventions, wrote, quote, it's hard to think of a time when the United States suffered a total defeat in a conflict. A setback so decisive that the strategic loss could be neither repaired nor ignored. Responded, challenge fucking accepted. Don't you dare question our capacity to ignore a problem. Gas is $6 a gallon, wildfire season lasts from September to July, and GMC just announced a 6,000 pound pickup truck with a six foot high grill called the Kid Catcher. We can ignore a problem. Trump ripped up the Obama era Iran deal, the JCPOA claiming it was the worst deal ever made. He then launched a war that upended the global economy and greatly improved Iran's strategic position. And so Trump cannot accept a deal that offers Iran better terms and Iran cannot accept a deal that offers worse terms. But don't worry, Pete Hegseth has a plan not to resolve the conflict or reopen the Strait of Hormuz or explain how additional bombing would improve our circumstances. No. NBC News reported on Tuesday that the Pentagon is considering renaming the Iran war if the ceasefire collapses. From Operation Epic Fury to Operation Sledgehammer. They renamed it what said a terrified Iranian general. Reopen the Strait of Hormuz. This is just like when I changed my rap name in high school from Algebro to Dr. Quadratic. Suffice it to say, it did not change the reality on the ground. But Operation Sledgehammer is a nice little pit stop on our path to the war's final name, Trump's Vietnam. All right, we have got a great show for you tonight and we will be right back with Melissa Etheridge.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Tommy John. What do I love about Tommy John? They're the most comfortable. Tommy John underwear is Soft and durable, they're breathable and lightweight for all day comfort. I'm wearing them right now. They got a curved pouch designed for comfort and control to support and flatter your natural shape. The stay put waistband ensures your Tommy Johns pouch.

[Melissa Etheridge]

It's a big, big pouch.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, you keep your, you keep, you keep extra stuff in there. You know Tommy John's one roll, bunch, pinch or leave marks. And their unique quick draw fly provides a horizontal opening for fast flea easy access when agent calls. It's a big pouch. Pouch, pouch. I love Tommy John's. I'm wearing them right now. I just did like they last forever but I actually just wanted them all to be the same kind of Tommy John. I had a mix. They have the cool cotton, they have the. The second skin version. I really like the second skin version. So I just got a bunch of those. They're just the most comfortable and I. And I wear them every goddamn day. Go to tommyjohn.com today and save 25% off your first order with code Love it. I wear the trunks cause I think for me boxer. I'm short the boxer reefs are too long so I just get the trunk kind and they're great.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

I like the trunks too.

[John Lovett]

Maybe the square cut. I don't know what the difference is but I like the ones that are kind of boxer brief but a little shorter. Comfort perfected. Just use code Love it at checkout and upgrade your essentials today. Love it or leave it is brought to you by Chime. Chime is changing the way people bank. They offer high rewarding fee free banking built for you. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. They have thousands of fee free ATMs. Because why would you pay to get your own money? You wouldn't because you're not crazy. Chime members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards, all with no fees ever. Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service, which means real humans answering whatever questions you 247 with a chime savings account, your money grows faster with a 3.75% APY rate that's nine times higher than the national average. Get 5% cash back on the Chime card in a category of your choice like gas or groceries. Plus you get premium travel perks like airport lounge access. 24, 7 Travel concierge included with your Chime cards. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are Already Banking fee free today. Head to chime.com love it. That's chime.com love it. It only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime Card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, MyPay, Spot Me and travel perks, go to Chime.com disclosures. And we're back and we' will be gracing our stage in just a moment. But first, if you are a friend of the pod, thank you. If you're not, now is an even better time to join. In addition to even more POD Save America content like the Only Friends podcast and Open Tabs newsletter, you get an ad free breaking news feed and you're supporting independent media that you can trust. Now you'll also get Crooked Con perks. They include dibs on presale seats for our live Pod Save America, Love it or leave it and strict scrutiny kickoff shows on November 5th and 6th. You also get discounts on the November 7th all day Crooked Con, which comes with many more benefits at that day's event to be announced. Potentially also to be determined. If you're not a paid subscriber and want the best Crooked Con experience, please join Friend of the POD right now. Get all the info you [e-mail] we cannot wait to see you there. And Los Angeles, come see us live every Tuesday and Thursday here at Interwoven Studios. Every Saturday single week. We make fewer fuck ups. Myself included. We're really figuring it out together. It's awesome. Upcoming guests include Ginger Minj, Rachel Bloom, Todd Glass, Apart in Anchorla and many, many more. So go to crooked.com events for tickets. And now I would stand inside my hell and hold the hand of death just to welcome my next guest, the one and only Melissa Etheridge.

[Bosco]

Hi.

[John Lovett]

Thank you for being here. We're a hundred.

[Melissa Etheridge]

That's all right.

[John Lovett]

And thank you for.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Hey, hello.

[Bosco]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

So nice to have you. Yeah, it's a guy. He's got a sink.

[Melissa Etheridge]

This is a sink state.

[John Lovett]

That's an old couch. I bought that. I bought that at a store. Oh, I just went to a store and I bought an old couch. Vintage store in Los Angeles. I went looking for a couch for this very, very state.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Any quarters in there?

[John Lovett]

There was no money in there. There was no money in there. So I would say that you have been one of America's preeminent lesbians for a generation.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Wow. Thank you.

[John Lovett]

You got your start in lesbian bars, and the lesbian bar is an endangered species. What happened to the lesbian bar?

[Melissa Etheridge]

You know, we like to drink until we're about 30, and then we kind of stop because it's. It's. We don't like waking up like that anymore. So it kind of. Once online dating came, and because the. The bar used to be the center of the community, you didn't meet any gay people or assume they were gay unless you went to a bar and saw them. It was like the only place. There was no Internet. There was nothing. You had to find the bar, and now you can. Now you can find us everywhere. Good Lord. We're just everywhere.

[John Lovett]

You're everywhere. I forgot, until I was thinking about our conversation, that you were part of the Ellen Coming out episode in 1997.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And I'm curious what the vibe was like on that set. Like, what was it like? When you're shooting this set thing, it's months before it's gonna come out. It must have felt like you're part of something.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah. I had been. Have been friends with Ellen for years, met her when she was, you know, before any television shows or anything, and it was a pleasure to watch her career and her decisions, you know, that led to that. We went out to dinner one night, and she goes, okay, I'm gonna do it. And I'm like, what are you gonna do? She said, I'm gonna come out. And I'm like, no. She goes, my character on the show is going to come out, and we're going to call it the puppy episode. So nobody. It was secret. It was called the puppy episode. No one wants to talk about it. No one's to say anything. And then each of us, man, she had Oprah on. She had. There were so many people in that episode that they just created this massive thing that you couldn't look away. You couldn't. You had to pay attention to it. And when it was aired, there was just. There were crowds gathered just to watch this. This historic thing.

[John Lovett]

So cool. Hey, are all famous lesbians either friends or enemies?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes.

[Bosco]

Really?

[Melissa Etheridge]

No.

[John Lovett]

You have ones that you just think are fine?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes, the ones I haven't met. Oh. So wait, wait.

[John Lovett]

So are you either friends or enemies with all the famous lesbians you know? Do you have any enemy lesbians? Are there enemies? Lesbian enemies?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I don't spend time with enemies. I mean, I don't spend time thinking about enemies. There's those that I don't really see much anymore.

[Bosco]

How about that?

[John Lovett]

Because I think of lesbians, and I'll tell you, I'm a gay person, and just as my experience of lesbians, which is like, you know, lesbians to me are the. Like when someone says, like, my dog is really sweet, but give her a minute to warm up. You know what I'm saying? That's my general experience about lesbians.

[Melissa Etheridge]

We're very sweet. No, we're just. Well, same with gay men. Most of you, you're just all yummy inside and, you know, you just want to be loved and liked. And a little sarcasm in there, too.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I don't agree.

[Melissa Etheridge]

No.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Melissa Etheridge]

All right, so maybe so.

[John Lovett]

So when you came out in 1993, that's four years for Ellen Cummings out, were you. Was it. Did it feel like you were telling people an open secret? Were you surprised how people were surprised by it? What was it like to do it?

[Melissa Etheridge]

In that moment back then, in the early 90s, it was don't ask, don't tell. Seriously, across everything, they really just. It was like, okay, you exist, but don't tell anybody, and we won't ask you. So the press never asked me, and I was discovered in a lesbian bar. I used to. I used to. I said to myself, if anyone asks me, I'm gonna be truthful. But I went through three albums, and it wasn't until the very end of the third album that Barry Walters from the Advocate actually was like, were you gonna do something? I said, I think I am. Yeah, I'm gonna come out. So nobody. It was. It was a don't ask, don't tell. So I needed to step up and say, hey, you know, I'm gay.

[John Lovett]

Did. Were any of your fans surprised? Like, what was the fan reaction? Because as much as it's an inside secret among, like, people that, you know, cover music and entertainment.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, you got. You were. You're. You're traveling the country and parts of the country where people weren't talking about. Yeah, yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I had a very. I had a. An underground. I obviously had a lesbian following even from the first album, but I also had a very strong male following of guys that just like rock and roll music and loved it. And for the first few years before I came out, I had a. A big following of that. And then I think when I came out, I think I broke a few hearts. I. I do, you know, just a few fans. But now they actually. They Come out and see me now. And they. It's like they have permission. It's like, okay, she's gay, but I can still like her music, sort of.

[Bosco]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It's like. It's like the evil eye moved to trance and now being lesbian.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah. Oh, it's mild. Yes. Compared to.

[John Lovett]

It's a mild case.

[Bosco]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Now, you won an Oscar for your song I Need to Wake up for Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth. Given that we never did in fact, wake up, do you think you should give the Oscar back?

[Melissa Etheridge]

No, I think we are. I think waking up looks different to everybody, and I think that. I think we're more awake than we know. Oh, yeah.

[John Lovett]

How do you know when you're more awake than you know? Because you're asleep. You know what I mean? How would I know if I'm awake if I don't think I'm awake?

[Melissa Etheridge]

You would feel it. Yes. You would actually feel. It would feel different than the fear that you wake up with every day.

[John Lovett]

I do wake up afraid every day.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And, like, kind of a little nauseous. Yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Well, so you told a story about how Taylor Swift discovered the guitar, in part because they were listening to you play the guitar and. And you and Taylor came and told you about that, right?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes. It was one of. It's something that I use forever with my children because they're like, well, you know, who are you, Mom? What? You know, you're not Taylor Swift. And, you know, and years ago, now that they're older, they respect my career and everything, but back then, they just. They never heard me. They didn't know what I did. And so Taylor came up to me early in her career. It was probably 10, at least 10 years ago, if not, if not more. We were both being honored for something. She had only put a couple albums out, and we were backstage, and she came over to me, and, you know, she's just one of the nicest people on earth. And she just came over and I said, oh, I'm a big fan. My daughter's even a bigger fan. You know, can we take a picture? And then she said, you know, my parents took me to see you when I was 11 years old, and that's why I learned to play the guitar. And so I will tell that to my kids, friends, anybody under the age of 30, I will tell that to.

[John Lovett]

When did your kids go from not appreciating you as a musician to appreciating you as a musician? When did that happen?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Well, it kind of happens. Right around. It's not that they didn't appreciate it. They just didn't care, you know, it doesn't. Children are very, you know, which is a good thing. They're very self minded. And just as long as, you know, there's food on the table. And everything was going fine. And it was until I think the girls, they started listening to me before the boys. The boys just still don't have anything to do with me. They're just like, you go do what you want. I respect it. Thank you very much for it. But. But they're just not fans of me, you know? I know. That's okay. They were. They were. They were actually. No, they were actually a little impressed that I was coming on your show.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

Wow.

[Melissa Etheridge]

So there you go.

[John Lovett]

You know what? Maybe I'm smarter than I see.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

So you have an album out Rise, right?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes. Yes.

[John Lovett]

What are your. What is the energy like at your tour shows? And I was. And listen, I compare. I've been to Brandi Carlisle shows and I had this idea that, that on some level, the kind of biker lesbians at your shows might be menacing to the theater lesbians at the Brandi Carlisle shows, but you might unite to take on the Gen Z Bi girls at Boy Genius or Muna.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes, yes, yes. No, I've got. We lovingly called them the Donnas because in every group, in every, like, meet and greet group I've ever had, in every group of at least five lesbians of Etheridge fans, one of them is named Donna. So it's just. It's. It's a fact. And so we call them the Donnas. And they. They are. They will save the world. Actually, they are. Some of the Melissa Etheridge fans are some of the deeply kindest people I've ever met. It's true. See, there they are.

[John Lovett]

But they. They could take the.

[Melissa Etheridge]

They could. They would. Absolutely. If anybody. If anyone would. If I was in danger, they would. It would be blood. Yes.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I feel like. I feel very safe.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes, yes, yes. You should. Yes.

[John Lovett]

You know, flat tires, you know, ruffians. I think you're just safe.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

You know, anything like that. Which I think brings us to our game. There's no wrong way to be gay. Except for, however Tim Cook is currently doing it. But Melissa, it's time for a game. We're calling, like the Way I Subaru. I love it.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I love it.

[John Lovett]

I am going to read off a lesbian stereotype. You confirm whether it's true or false. Are you ready?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I'm so ready.

[John Lovett]

Do lesbians love Subarus. True or false? Is that a fair. Is that a true or false stereotype?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Well, I need to tell you why we love Subarus.

[John Lovett]

I want to know.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Okay. Back in 1990s, early 90s, there were barely any out people. And the only couple that were out the lesbians were the sports, was Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova. And I know we've got lots of issues now in that, but the truth was they were out and they were mentors to me. Now, no one would touch an out lesbian to do an ad. Subaru, who was kind of floundering in the what is a Subaru World, said, you know what? We are going to go for the lesbian community. And they put. When they put Martina in an ad for Subaru and they paid her money, we said, yes, we will buy a Subaru. We will show you that making that decision economically was a plus. And we started buying Subarus. And we have not stopped because they supported us back in, like 1991. 92. Very, very big back then.

[John Lovett]

That's cool. Can I. Can I admit something to you?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

So I'm engaged to a trans person who for the first part of their life was basically a lesbian. And now they're a trans person marrying me. And I'm very confident in our relationship. However, we already have season tickets to Angel City, the women's soccer team. And so I've really drawn the line at get it. I, like, I really don't want us to ever get a Subaru because I'm afraid it's catching. They'll get behind the Subaru and they'll remember who they once were.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Oh, for them. Oh, I thought you. I thought you were going to become a lesbian.

[John Lovett]

No. Okay.

[Melissa Etheridge]

No.

[John Lovett]

Oh, I don't think it's right. No, no. I see what you're saying.

[Bosco]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I'm more worried that I'm less worried about me becoming a lesbian and more them reverting.

[Melissa Etheridge]

No.

[John Lovett]

I don't know why I think the Subaru would be the thing to do it, but I do feel like we have season tickets to those women's soccer team. We're driving.

[Melissa Etheridge]

You're on your way through.

[John Lovett]

What am I playing with fire?

[Melissa Etheridge]

You're on your way. Yes. It's dangerous. Look out.

[John Lovett]

They got a carabiner on their way. You know, it's scary. It's scary. Next lesbian stereotype. U hauling. This is when basically two women start dating and very quickly they're rented a U Haul to move in together.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's Yeah. I can't deny it. Yes. We love. Loved to make homes. We love to. We have transformed cities across the world. We find a. Something that's broken down and you know, it looks horrible. Oh, we can fix it up then. You know, this is like the second date, you know, and you, you're gonna. But you're gonna fix that apartment up, bring all this stuff, make a home out of it. It's just. We really like to do that. Yeah.

[Bosco]

Wow.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I know.

[John Lovett]

What interesting culture.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah. We get guilty with sex. It's, you know, we have sex with someone, we're like, oh, all right, that's it. We're gonna be with him forever.

[John Lovett]

So that's an interesting point you raised, which is so I have found. When I was in my youth, I always felt like, because the expectation that men have a masculine relationship to sex, there's a kind of like, like the sexual dynamic. And like gay bars is. You can have basically kind of emotion free sex, sex without love. Like there's no commitment involved and everybody could just have fun and, and shake hands and go home or whatever people do. I don't know. I wasn't really part of it. But the. But I feel like there are men who have a feminine relationship to sex in that they have the emotional connection and they want something more like a relationship before they have a sexual relationship. But it's a little less. But it. Because it's only now it's when men date women that's obvious who will tend to have which role. But in gay world it's less true in the same way that they're in the gay land, that there are men who are like, I don't want to have easy sex. That doesn't work for me. How often are there lesbians that are like, where are the. That just want to go home? Yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

You know, I haven't been in the single world in a long, long, long time, but I have witnessed it. And I think that there are some pretty fierce young women out there that are doing the I'm going out tonight and whoever and whatever. I think that's not as rare as it was when I was in the dating pool, which was a long time ago.

[John Lovett]

Carabiners. Why do lesbians.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I have no idea that I don't understand why.

[John Lovett]

Do you. Why, why does. Why is. Because why is wanting to go down on your friend doesn't make any sense. We.

[Melissa Etheridge]

We. We don't like person. So it's like, how are we going to have. Carry our stuff, our keys and stuff, you know, and the. And the Swiss army knife and the things we need.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Melissa Etheridge]

You know, so I think that's where that comes from. But I don't personally have one. Sorry, I can't help you with that one.

[John Lovett]

Hairy armpits.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah. Well, that I got. Yeah. Yes, sir, there is no reason to shave your armpits. I just do not get it.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I don't. Not because it's. It's not. For you. It would be.

[Melissa Etheridge]

No.

[John Lovett]

The man.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah. Or it's for someone else. It certainly. For me. Yeah. It's. It. It's annoying. It gets. You get. Anyway, we won't go into that.

[John Lovett]

We don't need to go into.

[Melissa Etheridge]

We don't need to get into that. No, I don't. Yeah. So I remember that. But I do remember the first time when I was a child in the 60s where I saw a woman with hairy armpits and I was like, you know, just because I hadn't seen it. But then I. Then I was interested.

[John Lovett]

Was that the moment you realized that?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I think so.

[Bosco]

Yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I think so. I was like, shocking. Oh, look at her. She has hairy legs. What does this mean?

[John Lovett]

Next stereotype. If you need a lesbian in a hurry, you can find one at Home Depot.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Ah, probably. Yeah. Like I said, we like to fix things, we like to make homes, and we love to. I mean, if there's something broken in the house. Oh, if you've got a lesbian, forget it. It's you. We'll fix it in a minute.

[John Lovett]

That's so cool.

[Melissa Etheridge]

It is.

[John Lovett]

You're the first one I've met and I've so far. I'm into it. No, I'm kidding. And final stereotype. Fans of Melissa Etheridge.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Ah, that's true. Yeah. Yes. What? Yes. Lesbians like my music. What? I don't know what else to say.

[John Lovett]

There's nothing else to say.

[Melissa Etheridge]

There's no. There it is. Yeah. You know what a lesbian army is called, right?

[John Lovett]

What's a lesbian army called?

[Melissa Etheridge]

It's a militia Etheridge.

[John Lovett]

It's the perfect place to leave it. We will be right back with the one and only Bosnia.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

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[John Lovett]

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[Bosco]

over here. Hi.

[John Lovett]

Hi. Welcome, welcome.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Hello.

[John Lovett]

Hello. Lovely.

[Bosco]

Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Beautiful, beautiful.

[Bosco]

It's my job. Thank you. It's quite a far way down for me.

[John Lovett]

Hi.

[Bosco]

Hello.

[John Lovett]

Welcome to the show. You look stunning.

[Bosco]

Thank you. It's my job. And God given talent.

[John Lovett]

Thank you. And those are the two things, you know, absolutely. Effort and effort and talent. After that, it's just luck money. Yeah. Absolutely rich parents, which is highly recommended but not always available. The Marvelous Misgender so True is about your alter ego's plan to turn everyone trans.

[Bosco]

Mm.

[John Lovett]

That's your new stage show. How would one turn someone trans?

[Bosco]

Okay, so here's the thing. I have a ray gun that does it for me. It's delightful. And the thing is, when you turn trans, you just like, if I were to transgender fy you right now, you would not be a trans woman. You'd be a trans man and you'd be able to check your DMs and you'd find a lot of rude girls in them. And I promise that's a great thing. Say hi to Safira for me. Yeah. I think it's really, really fun to call out what the media is currently saying about trans people and saying that they're right, they should be worried and they should stop us if that's an option.

[John Lovett]

No, it's such an important point that people are afraid to. To make. This is the. Turning everyone trans is the goal. Oh, absolutely. The plan.

[Bosco]

Oh, world domination. Turning everyone trans.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Now, we haven't really cracked the exact formula yet, but we got scientists working on it.

[Bosco]

We sure. We sure have. And we're going to crack a few eggs along the way.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Pete Buddha judge goes down a very long elevator to the. Down to the basement where there's a meeting of the. Yeah.

[Bosco]

And then he finds them.

[John Lovett]

The.

[Bosco]

The non binary advisor that stole the luggage.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Bosco]

And they put on lift lipstick for each.

[John Lovett]

The non binary. The non binary Biden advisor who stole the luggage was, for a time our favorite villain. What an incredible Melissa Etheridge. You know about this?

[Melissa Etheridge]

No.

[Bosco]

This is the best story of all time.

[John Lovett]

The non binary representative of the Biden administration was stealing luggage from the airport, opening it, and then wearing the outfits in public events.

[Bosco]

And part is they're like Nigerian. Like beautiful fabric that a white person should not be touching and. Or wearing. But it is one of the craziest stories.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Wow. Well, look.

[John Lovett]

And it's. You know what? Queer people can be villains.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

So true. And that's part of it.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Think about how many suitcases you would have to steal from LAX to get one that has beautiful custom gowns that fit you. That fit.

[Bosco]

That is so gaggy. I honestly, I think non binary people should steal more. I think that they did nothing wrong and they should continue.

[John Lovett]

Okay.

[Bosco]

I don't know where they are at this point, but I do think they're like the Rachel Dolezal of non binary people. And I really think they should be allowed to run for office again.

[John Lovett]

Sure. Can't do worse than some of the other Democrats we've had out there. Now, there's nudity in the show, hopefully. But your inspiration was also Batman. Like the Adam West Batman.

[Bosco]

And oh, yeah, famously filled with nudity.

[John Lovett]

And Pee Wee's Playhouse also filled with nudity. How'd you get everything in there? The nudity, the Batman, the Pee Wee Herman.

[Bosco]

I think my favorite thing about creating is pulling from so many different sources that an alchemy happens and you're like, this feels familiar, but I've never seen anything like this. So that's what I'm trying to do with all of these references.

[John Lovett]

Do you remember when Batman is running around with the bomb on the beach and he has to. On the boardwalk and he has to run and find a place to throw the bomb, but he can't find a place to throw the bomb because everywhere he looks, there's like a nun or a children hanging. And then he finally finds a place to throw the bomb and it explodes right at the perfect time. Remember that?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I don't.

[Bosco]

However, that's the best bit I've ever heard.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I do.

[John Lovett]

That's.

[Melissa Etheridge]

He looks pretty. Looks pretty silly.

[Bosco]

It looks go f. I like that. That's like Pepperidge Farm remembers, but. Melissa E.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I remember.

[John Lovett]

I remember now. You also host spell Slayers, a YouTube show about magic. The Gathering. I have in my home a box of Magic cards that I believe has not been touched since 1999 from with. So there may be valuable cards in there.

[Bosco]

I believe it. I believe it. No, it is such an old card game. Well, not old, but like it's been around longer than almost any other card game other than like playing cards. It came out, I believe, 1992. 93, so 30 plus years. And it is such a lovely, lovely pastime of mine that I decided to monetize and turn into business to torture myself.

[John Lovett]

You do the show with Irene the alien fellow drag queen?

[Bosco]

I do, yeah. It's not my fault.

[John Lovett]

Have you ever played Magic the Gathering?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I. I bought the game for my son once and then he. He always told me he wanted to learn it because he heard it was good, but he never did. So I still have a. A box in my toy chest.

[Bosco]

Will you play Magic the Gathering with Melissa?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Sure, I'd love to.

[Bosco]

Oh, it would be an absolute delight. It's my favorite game.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Wow, cool.

[Bosco]

It's also a really interesting game cuz I find out like crew people, whenever I go on tour also play Magic the Gathering. So I bully them into playing with me and then they have to lose, otherwise they get fired.

[John Lovett]

You just got to make sure you have the right balance of mana, of resources, and defensive and offensive creatures. And then think about what kind of deck you want. Do you want a fire and ice deck? Do you want. Do you want kind of. You think about that. You want a black and white deck. A lot of different ways you go. I think that. Has it changed since I last played?

[Bosco]

Oh no, it's great. But now they've added neopronouns, so now there's Z zer type decks.

[John Lovett]

Wow. Magic the Gathering. Went woke. Yeah.

[Bosco]

Stayed woke. Been woke.

[John Lovett]

Been woke.

[Bosco]

That's great. Found woke.

[John Lovett]

And there are characters now in Magic the Gathering that are considered to be queer characters, right?

[Bosco]

Absolutely. By me in particular.

[John Lovett]

Is it wishful thinking or is it canon?

[Bosco]

It is canon. It's canonical. There are queer characters within the Gathering, the universe. This is going to shock you. A lot of trans women play and create Magic the Gathering, so we do try to insert ourselves wherever possible.

[Melissa Etheridge]

We're just laughing.

[John Lovett]

How can we strengthen the bond between trans women and lesbians? How do we build that bridge?

[Bosco]

Oh, I think that bridge is built already.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes. With our tools. Yes. With our tool belt.

[Bosco]

Our carabiners combined.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes.

[Bosco]

Yes, for sure. I think there's an entire. The Transbian sect of trans is very, very powerful. You can find them on Reddit. And I don't know, I. I feel like lesbians and trans women are natural porn allies.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Absolutely. There's. There's some. You'll find some, you know, conflict in social media. A little bit social, but generally. I mean, back when conflict on the

[John Lovett]

Internet, you know, backwaters, basically.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Exactly. But we historically, we very much. I mean, it was lesbians in the trans community at Stonewall that started it all there.

[John Lovett]

No, it was a couple hot white guys.

[Bosco]

It was like.

[John Lovett]

No, the.

[Bosco]

Not like the jum.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Really?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, really beautiful that I saw the film and that's what I remember from the film. There were. There were lesbians that were like bringing those guys, like food to eat.

[Bosco]

No, no, see, they were getting the

[John Lovett]

coffee copy, that kind of thing. No, the leaders were the white guys. No, no, that's who led. I'm sorry, that's the gay rights movement has been led. No, specifically a set of hands. Handsome, rich white men. That's the movement. I'm crazy, right?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes. This is it right here through the

[Bosco]

first brick at Stone.

[John Lovett]

I know what you were saying just doesn't feel true to me.

[Melissa Etheridge]

No, I'm sorry, No, I think I was there. I wasn't.

[John Lovett]

I wasn't.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I wasn't a Stonewall. I was alive, though.

[Bosco]

But I think we've always kind of been like the most vocal, like, like the gay subtypes. Well, trans people in general. Not take it just to trans women, but like trans people in general and like lesbians. I've kind of always been the ones shouting from the rooftops whether people wanted to hear it or not.

[Melissa Etheridge]

That's right.

[John Lovett]

That was nice.

[Bosco]

Thank you. Thank you.

[John Lovett]

We'll be right back.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

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[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

They're super comfy.

[John Lovett]

They're a game changer, you know, they're just, they're great. Bombas are cushioned where you need it, sweat wicking and they don't slide around so you're not constantly adjusting your socks. And with the weather warming up, it's time to add Bombas sandals into your footwear rotation. Their Friday slides I have those too are made with this super lightweight and waterproof EVA that's soft but still supported by warming up Pilates. This morning there's a little car accident in the parking lot. Uh oh, little fender bender.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

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[John Lovett]

I got in safely because I was moving gliding on my my slides.

[Bosco]

There it is.

[John Lovett]

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[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

Hey Crooked listeners, if you haven't become a friend of the POD yet, you are missing out on exclusive bonus content that drops every single week. If you do join, you're helping us, you know, grow Crooked Media, which is one of the few independent, proudly pro democracy media companies left in Trump's America. If you join, you also get ad free episodes of all your favorite pods. Ad free episodes of Pod Save America. Love it or leave it offline. Pod Save the World. You also get bonus content like our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends, Dan Pfeiffer's Polar Coaster. You also get access to all of our excellent substack newsletters like Pod Save America, open tabs and tons more great content. So stop what you're doing right now and go ahead and [e-mail] friends. Check it out.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Premier hosts on VRBO deliver quality vacation

[John Lovett]

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[Melissa Etheridge]

instructions so you don't have to worry about surprises. I asked our host a question about the house last night and he got back to me super quick.

[John Lovett]

See, that's the premier host move right there.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I wish I had a premier group chat. I asked them where we should have dinner last night and they left me on red. I know you saw it. It says it.

[John Lovett]

Classic group chat move. Don't walk into a surprise. Book a top rated verbo.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Stay with a premier host if you know you verbo.

[John Lovett]

And we're back. Melissa Bosk. Go the Gathering it's it sits in the middle of the Venn diagram between gay and nerdy, but does its Monsters. Let's discuss in a little game we're calling Magic the Gathering.

[Bosco]

Oh, I love that. I love that. That has like a quite a bit better ring than Faggot the Gathering.

[John Lovett]

Yes. Faggot the Gathering. Oh, that's good too. Where that was just sitting right there on the table.

[Bosco]

I'm allowed to say that.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes.

[Bosco]

For a long time.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Bosco]

I know. I'm trying my best.

[John Lovett]

Bosco. Melissa. I will show you a monster from Magic the Gathering. You will tell us where you think they are. On The Kinsey Scale, 0 is exclusively heterosexual. 6 is exclusively homosexual. First up, we have Tarmogo. To help you decide, we also have quotes from this character. What doesn't grow, dies. And what dies grows. The Tarmogoff.

[Bosco]

I know the head is crazy. I. I feel. Where. Where does non binary fall?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah. Because I find no sexuality at all.

[Bosco]

No. But I do see a septum piercing. There's no eyebrows.

[John Lovett]

We can, you know, listen, we can do a three dimensional plot. We can now leave the. The XY axis. We can talk about how. How sexual they are. We could talk about what their gender identity is. There's no rules in this game. You can do whatever we want. So we're saying asexual non binaries. That seems. Yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah.

[Bosco]

Who is making oat lattes for me in the morning?

[Melissa Etheridge]

This is me when I need an oat latte.

[Bosco]

Same.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Don't. Don't copy me before I've had my tarmagoy.

[Melissa Etheridge]

There you go.

[Bosco]

There you go.

[John Lovett]

Mean anything? Next up, we have. So we're going to say asexual, non binary, just for the ruling there. Next up, we have Omnath, the locus of creation. Landfall. Wherever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you gain four life. If this is the first time this ability has resolved this turn. Very sexy. Wow. You need a bunch of different kinds of mana to do this.

[Melissa Etheridge]

You do.

[John Lovett]

What a complicated creature.

[Bosco]

I believe Omnath has bangers because it looks like the. The two fingers are shorter than the others, which I think is going to put her pretty high up on the Kinsey scale.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, no, for sure. It's very rainbow. What do you think?

[Melissa Etheridge]

You really just passed me that. I have no idea what you're talking about. Finger.

[Bosco]

Okay, that's fine.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Okay.

[Bosco]

I can't wait for you to go home and Google what bangers are like.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

Oh, my God.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Oh, my God. I'm so. I've been so.

[John Lovett]

What do we think? We're thinking of four. We're thinking of five.

[Bosco]

Oh, I'm going six.

[John Lovett]

Straight. Just gay. As gay as it can be.

[Bosco]

Look at her.

[John Lovett]

Look at her.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah, that's.

[John Lovett]

Look at her.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Bangers. Bangers. Okay.

[Bosco]

Should I.

[Melissa Etheridge]

No, I don't know. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

I should, I mean, whisper to my Sabridge what it is.

[Bosco]

Okay, absolutely. I'm gonna whisper with this mic right here. So bangers are when lesbians have shorter fingernails on their index and pointer.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Oh.

[Bosco]

For fingering brain, purposes of.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Thank you very much.

[Bosco]

You're so welcome.

[Melissa Etheridge]

We didn't have a name for that. We just. It was just the way you figured out if someone's gay, you look at their hands.

[Bosco]

But go ahead. Love you the way I do.

[John Lovett]

Right. No fingernails. Perhaps a lesbian, one long fingernail. Maybe a coke problem.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Exactly.

[Bosco]

Finger. Right.

[John Lovett]

For sure.

[Melissa Etheridge]

So they're okay. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Next up, the hermit Druid. You seek the company of plants to ensure that your wits will go to seed.

[Bosco]

Okay, wait, look at this.

[John Lovett]

Look at this. Hermit drew it.

[Bosco]

Oh, wait,

[Melissa Etheridge]

I don't know.

[Bosco]

You don't know. Okay, so I do believe we're giving straight, however, we're giving chaser, which I don't know where that falls on the Kinsey scale.

[John Lovett]

Right. Well, it's not a zero for sure. No, not a six.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I'd say a three or something. Something. Yeah, yeah.

[Bosco]

Let's say three.

[John Lovett]

A self hating three. A self hating three.

[Bosco]

Love that in my DMs, but not willing to go out in public.

[John Lovett]

Right, right. Yeah, that's. I think. And it's, you know, it's sad, honestly, for the hermit Druid, because it's like there's a happy world out there for you if you just embrace who you are. Right. But then you think it's a Druid, and so maybe there's a kind of stoicism to the whole enterprise.

[Bosco]

Oh, yeah. I would say, like, I would find him at Burning man, he would come to my window. And I do believe that.

[John Lovett]

You know what? They missed the first one. They got the second one.

[Bosco]

Okay, okay, okay.

[John Lovett]

Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it.

[Bosco]

Perfect. Perfect. We had to hit it one more time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm giving chaser vibes. So, like, interested in women, but also interested in women.

[John Lovett]

We're calling it a self hating three. Next up, the Golgari Grave Troll. Look at that queen. That very, very crypt keeper.

[Bosco]

Cindy, this is Bones. Okay.

[John Lovett]

How gay is this? The Golgari Grave Troll? I mean, look at that. Look at that waist. Look at the kind of snatched.

[Bosco]

We are kind of snatched. You're right to say so. Kind of snatched. Okay, Got it.

[John Lovett]

Skirt. We do have this midriff showing.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Kind of looks like the older women when I used to play the bars in Long beach that would sit at the end of the bar and complain that I was singing too loud.

[John Lovett]

Wow. Kind of very skinny, angry, skeletal bar dwellers. But. But gay.

[Melissa Etheridge]

But gay.

[Bosco]

But gay. Okay.

[John Lovett]

And mad about it. That's a six. Five or a six. What do you think?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yeah, I'm gonna go six.

[John Lovett]

Let's give her a six and let's do one more. Next up, we have the mimeoplasm. The mimeoplasm. There's the mimeoplasm. Legendary creature. It seems to have the power of ooze. The power of ooze. The mimeoplasm.

[Bosco]

I. I do want to say that I've met a barista that's non binary named Ooze. So I. I do think that. I think we're back on.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Wow. I think you are. Wow. Wow.

[Bosco]

Okay. Absolutely. I think that the second O is capitalized instead of the first one, though.

[John Lovett]

No, I think that. Nope. Shut it down. Second O capitalized. I think that can oak. I would like to. Guys, come on.

[Bosco]

Power to the people. Come on.

[John Lovett]

Is that why they. Is that why. Is that why the lesbians threw the brick? Exactly. The second. So just to wrap it up, we've had a. We have a. Another non binary, but I think hypersexual. I think there's a deeply sexual.

[Bosco]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This one of the hands has a tongue.

[John Lovett]

What do they call that movie?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I'm out. I'm gone.

[John Lovett]

All right. And that's.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

Magic. The gathering. When we come back, it's time for second thoughts.

[Bosco]

Yeah, you just, like, kind of fill in the blanks, and that's what I do with my toes. I only paint the first three.

[John Lovett]

You only paint the first three to. We're back. You only paint. You only paint your first three toes?

[Bosco]

I sure do. I sure do. A, because I'm lazy. B, because it's messy. And C, I don't like people touching my feet, so I don't like getting pedicures. And. Yeah, it's kind of like when you are able to read every single word. The first and the last letter are the same, but all the letters are the same within it. It's all jumbled. If I paint three toes, everybody just assumes the rest of them are painted.

[John Lovett]

Wow. But you know.

[Bosco]

But I know. And that's my secret.

[John Lovett]

Now it's time for second thoughts, tell us. I know. Basically, I have a list here of proposed second thoughts by the producers of this show for things I perhaps should regret having said or done. And I'm going to walk you through them now and then. Also, I'd like to know what regrets and second thoughts you have about this evening. First up, think about it. Give it a good think. First up, from the monologue, the joke. Sam Bankman, Frida Kahlo. You guys hated that. You just hated that. I've never had a. A pun. Basically, fly the plane that is the show into a mountain. The way that. That. There was a different energy in the room after I said that. And I do regret it. I do regret it. I do regret it. Oh, I also, at some point referred to my respected coworkers, Knockers. I did refer to her knockers. And while we did discuss the joke beforehand, it still felt weird to say it. I said to Melissa Etheridge, and I quote, my experience with lesbians. That's how I started a sentence. I said Melissa Etheridge. Let me tell you about my experience with lesbians, Melissa. Oh, also, Melissa praised her fans, and I did not. It did not even occur to me to talk about the fans of this show. Did not even occur to me to suggest, oh, we have great fans here at Love it or leave it. I don't think they could fix a goddamn thing. I get this. I feel like in this group, even just look at this group of people who've attended, which I think is a mix of fans and people that are here. I'm not sure we're getting a tire changed. Oh, you know what?

[Bosco]

Changed your tire.

[John Lovett]

You know. Thank you. I didn't want to assume. I didn't want to, like, suggest it, but I. There's a competence coming off of you that I felt safe, so that's good. So that's at least two of us that you and Melissa Etheridge can do it. All right.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Get it done.

[John Lovett]

Oh, for Bosco. I dress like this next to you. How I dress for this show. I have a regret about it. Oh, another regret. I did not invite myself to the Bosco Melissa Etheridge magic gathering game. I just let it happen, and it was just going to transform, transpire without me.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Well, there you go.

[John Lovett]

Still not invited.

[Bosco]

Sorry. Dress for the job you want. Yep.

[John Lovett]

Melissa, what's a regret you have about tonight or any second thoughts you might have?

[Melissa Etheridge]

I really don't have any regrets, but. No, I think I. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

What do you think about our dynamic, you and me? Yeah.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Oh, I think we need to have, like a dinner. Yeah, I think we need to. I don't know, I just think. I think we need to talk.

[John Lovett]

Cool. Yeah. That was such an interesting energy to it. I'm excited about. Was portentous. Bosco.

[Bosco]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

What? Do you have a second thought about anything you regret saying or doing tonight?

[Bosco]

Any regrets that I have?

[John Lovett]

Any regrets?

[Bosco]

Maybe just subjecting the audience to the raw sexual tension me and Melissa have in this moment.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I was looking at her. Lovely. This is really impressive. The ink, you see, it's just. She's very pretty. I'm sorry.

[John Lovett]

Very pretty.

[Bosco]

No, and I know that's kind of overwhelming and like, maybe like jealousy inducing to the audience here, and I'm really sorry to do that to all of us.

[John Lovett]

Look at them. They're riven by jealousy. They're overwhelmed by it. The green cloud of jealousy looms on the stage between us. Isn't that right?

[Bosco]

Betwixt.

[John Lovett]

Betwixt. Yes. And that's our show. Thank you so much. There are 173 days until the midterm. We will see you back on Friday with Caitlin Riley and Sam Heughan. Until then, have a great night. Love it or leave it is a Cricket Media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante and me, John Lovett. Our production team includes Hallie Kiefer, Sarah Lazarus, David Toles, Claudia Shang, Jay Banks, Gavin Purcell, and Matt de Groot. And our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Friend of the Pod Announcer]

Hey, crooked listeners, if you haven't become a friend of the pod yet, you are missing out on exclusive bonus content that drops every single week. If you do join, you're helping us, you know, grow crooked Media, which is one of the few independent, proudly pro democracy media companies left in Trump's America. If you join, you also get ad free episodes of all your favorite pods. Ad free episodes of Pod Save America. Love it or leave it offline. Pod Save the world. You also get bonus content like our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends, Dan Pfeiffer's Polar coaster. You also get access to all of our excellent substack newsletters like Pod Save America, open tabs and tons more great content. So. So stop what you're doing right now and go ahead and [e-mail] friends check it out.

[Melissa Etheridge]

I'm Kiana and I leveled up my business with Shopify.

[John Lovett]

Once I figured out that Shopify was

[Melissa Etheridge]

a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it

[John Lovett]

to me because it's so easy to use.

[Melissa Etheridge]

It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted.

[John Lovett]

Start your free [e-mail] what would you

[Melissa Etheridge]

do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation.

[John Lovett]

Another pina colada?

[Melissa Etheridge]

Yes, please. Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet. Fantastic. Hire 36% more more help.

[John Lovett]

You're hired, and you're hired.

[Melissa Etheridge]

Shopify has the world's best converting checkout up to 36% better than other e commerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales is up to you. Switch to Shopify [e-mail] setup and get a $1 trial. Shopify.com setup.