Lovett or Leave It: For Good

Summary

Lovett or Leave It: For Good
Hosted by Crooked Media
Release Date: December 21, 2024

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Overview

In the festive episode titled "For Good", Jon Lovett and his eclectic lineup of guests revisit the standout moments of the 2024 season of Lovett or Leave It. This "Best Of" compilation encapsulates the show's signature blend of humor, political satire, and candid conversations with notable figures from various industries. From engaging dialogues with comedy legends to insightful discussions with actors and writers, the episode offers a nostalgic yet fresh take on the year's most memorable segments.

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Highlighted Conversations

T.S. Madison: Breaking Down LGBTQIA Narratives

Timestamp: 01:57 – 10:42

Jon kicks off the episode with the legendary T.S. Madison, delving into LGBTQIA themes during their Pride Month stop in Asheville. The conversation humorously explores fictional trans superheroes and villains, with Madison reminiscing about her past roles and the nuanced portrayal of characters like Ursula from Disney’s The Little Mermaid.

Notable Quote:

T.S. Madison (02:11): "I think Ursula is, like, the greatest Disney villain, and I'm hoping that they create a backstory on her like they did Maleficent's backstory."

The duo playfully discusses the appeal of Disney villains, touching upon themes of self-identity and acceptance, while also engaging in light-hearted banter about personal preferences and quirky topics like foot fetishes.

Busy Phillips and Rachel Bloom: Exploring Gender Identity and Pop Culture

Timestamp: 10:45 – 20:33

In a dynamic segment, Busy Phillips and Rachel Bloom tackle the provocative question, "What is a woman?" Through a candid and often humorous dialogue, they navigate the complexities of gender identity, societal expectations, and the impact of pop culture on personal narratives.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Bloom (12:00): "I bleed on a full moon. I ovulate on a new moon every fucking month since I was 12. I had to think. I had to think. I couldn't remember. But that's it."

Their conversation seamlessly blends humor with serious discourse, offering listeners both entertainment and thought-provoking insights into contemporary gender debates.

Rob Reiner and Kathleen Turner: Behind the Scenes of Hollywood Classics

Timestamp: 24:34 – 34:37

Rob Reiner shares anecdotes from his illustrious career, including his collaboration with Kathleen Turner and the creation of iconic projects like The West Wing. Turner recounts her experiences in the film industry, highlighting the challenges and creative processes behind beloved movies such as When Harry Met Sally.

Notable Quote:

Kathleen Turner (23:29): "I made a connection with my father having been a tremendous success and the son coming on the heels. It was not a sex thing."

Their dialogue offers listeners a rare glimpse into the minds of Hollywood veterans, emphasizing the blend of personal experience and professional artistry that shapes timeless cinema.

Thomas Lennon: Comedy and Creative Writing Insights

Timestamp: 35:33 – 44:10

Comedian and writer Thomas Lennon joins to discuss his work on various projects, including his time writing for Strangers With Candy and his ventures into film scripting. Lennon humorously reflects on the challenges of creative collaboration and the often unpredictable nature of the entertainment industry.

Notable Quote:

Thomas Lennon (37:14): "How? We were perfectly happy to write a Herbie Fully Loaded movie, but gonna be dicks about that. The car couldn't smile, which was such an awesome idea."

Lennon's insights highlight the delicate balance between creative integrity and commercial demands, offering an entertaining narrative on the behind-the-scenes aspects of showbiz.

Simon Rex: Ghosts and Paranormal Musings

Timestamp: 50:19 – 55:59

Actress Simon Rex engages in a lighthearted yet intriguing discussion about ghosts and the paranormal. The conversation explores the nature of ghostly entities, their representation in media, and personal beliefs about the supernatural.

Notable Quote:

John Lovett (51:06): "Do you believe in ghosts?"

T.S. Madison (51:08): "I do."

Their playful exchange delves into speculative topics, balancing skepticism with open-mindedness, and adds a supernatural twist to the episode's diverse content.

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Memorable Games and Segments

"Did I Write This?" with Thomas Lennon

Timestamp: 35:33 – 43:03

Thomas Lennon participates in the recurring game segment "Did I Write This?", where he humorously assesses his contributions to various film and television projects. The segment showcases Lennon's self-deprecating humor and sharp wit, providing listeners with entertaining anecdotes from his writing career.

Notable Quote:

John Lovett (36:08): "And then they wrote me a letter, you know, afterwards. You know, like the 12 step thing where they say, I'm sorry that I up your life."

"Would You Fuck This House?" with Simon Rex

Timestamp: 52:02 – 55:59

In the irreverent game "Would You Fuck This House?", Simon Rex and Kathleen Turner evaluate various fictional houses based on their aesthetic appeal and emotional resonance. The segment combines humor with candid assessments, reflecting the hosts' unique perspectives on personal taste and architectural design.

Notable Quote:

Kathleen Turner (52:28): "I've been there."

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Concluding Remarks

Jon Lovett wraps up the "For Good" episode by reflecting on the year's journey, expressing gratitude to guests like Kathleen Turner and Rob Reiner, and teasing upcoming live shows for 2025. He emphasizes the importance of taking breaks from the relentless pace of politics and news, encouraging listeners to enjoy the holiday season with a touch of humor and camaraderie.

Final Thoughts:

Jon Lovett (78:43): "Take a break, take some time from politics and the news and we will see you sluts in 2025."

The episode concludes with a heartfelt dedication to influential figures and a reminder of the collaborative efforts that make Lovett or Leave It a standout in political and cultural commentary.

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Production Credits

• Hosts: John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg
• Executive Producer: Kendra James
• Producer: Chris Lord
• Associate Producer: Kennedy Hill
• Head Writer: Hallie Kiefer
• Writers: Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, Will Miles, Mohana Del Shiki
• Editor: Evan Sutton
• Audio Support: Kyle Seglin, Charlotte Landis
• Audio Engineer: Stephen Colon
• Videographer: Milo Kim
• Theme Song: Written and performed by Shure Shure
• Designer: Bernardo Serna

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Supporting Sponsors

Throughout the episode, various sponsors are seamlessly integrated, offering listeners valuable products and services. Notable mentions include Simply Safe for home security, SelectQuote for life insurance, Prolon for nutrition programs, ExpressVPN for online security, Hydro for fitness equipment, and Tommy John for premium underwear.

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Upcoming Events

Jon Lovett teases the launch of a new season in 2025 featuring high-profile guests such as Rachel Bloom and Joel McHale. Fans are encouraged to attend live shows for an immersive experience of Lovett or Leave It's unique blend of humor and insightful discourse.

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Final Dedication

Jon Lovett dedicates the episode to Maggie Smith, Peanut the Squirrel, and possibly Jimmy Carter, expressing heartfelt thanks to listeners for a flawless year and wishing everyone happy holidays. The episode ends on a high note, blending humor with genuine appreciation for the show's community.

Closing Quote:

Jon Lovett (81:38): "May their memories be a blessing from all of us here at Love it or Leave It. Thank you for spending this 10 out of 10 absolutely flawless year with us and have a very happy holidays."

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"Lovett or Leave It: For Good" serves as a comprehensive recap of a year filled with laughter, poignant discussions, and memorable moments. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to the show, this episode offers a delightful journey through the highlights that define Lovett or Leave It's distinctive voice in political and cultural commentary.

Transcript

[John Lovett]

This podcast is supported by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Federation of America exists so all people can get access to the sexual and reproductive care and education they need. Planned Parenthood organizations advocate for health equity and policies that allow people the freedom to control their own bodies, lives, and futures. More than 2 million patients each year rely on Planned Parenthood Health center services like STI testing and treatment, birth control, gender affirming care, abortion, cancer screenings, and more. Reproductive health care and rights are under attack from public officials who are out of step with the will of the vast majority of Americans. The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen, and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to health care, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now, Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to health care. Donate today by visiting planned parenthood.org welcome, everybody, to our annual love it or leave it Best of episode. As another perfect, peaceful year gracefully swan dives to a close, it's time to look back fondly on the most perfect moments of them all. And if you can believe it all, the greatest hits of 2024 happened on this very show. Well, okay, J.D. vance trying to order donuts was pretty good, and I did, like, wicked, but that's it. The exceptions prove the rule. Let's get into it. Up first, one of our favorite guests of all time, the one, the Only, the legendary T.S. madison, joins me as we put the gab in LGBTQIA during our Pride Month stop in Asheville. We also put in Bag Guilt Glib. Wow. You can. You can make a lot of words out of this. While I find some more, please enjoy this hilarious segment. Okay, there's also at. There's tail, and then you get to base. Move over, Taylor Swift. There's only one TS I care about, and she's here tonight. Please put your hands together for the one, the only, T.S. madison.

[T.S. Madison]

Oh, yes, honey. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, baby.

[Busy Phillips]

Hey.

[T.S. Madison]

Oh, my goodness. North Carolina, y'all make some noise in here. Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

Good to see you. Hi. Oh.

[T.S. Madison]

Oh. Oh, my goodness.

[John Lovett]

All right.

[T.S. Madison]

No, no. Y'all ain't making enough noise. Make some noise in this motherfucker for me.

[Rob Reiner]

Who?

[T.S. Madison]

I came all the way from Atlanta, Georgia.

[John Lovett]

From Atlanta. From Atlanta.

[T.S. Madison]

Atlanta, Georgia.

[John Lovett]

Recently. Yes. You talked to IndieWire about wanting to see trans superheroes.

[T.S. Madison]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

And trans villains.

[Busy Phillips]

Mm.

[John Lovett]

Who's your favorite trans villain? Real or fictional?

[T.S. Madison]

I admit that in the past, I've been a Nasty. They weren't kidding when they call me, well, a witch.

[John Lovett]

You know, it's Ursula is what. I didn't know why I loved Ursula. When I was a little boy, I fucking loved Ursula.

[T.S. Madison]

Was it her tentacles?

[John Lovett]

Yes, perhaps it was, but I think. Because, Well, I just. I just think. I think Ursula knew I was gay before I did.

[T.S. Madison]

Of course, darling.

[John Lovett]

Of course.

[T.S. Madison]

You know, and then, you know, she was. She was a fish, you know? You know, we love fish, you know, she understood. So here's the thing. I think that Ursula is, like, the greatest Disney villain, and I'm hoping that they create a backstory on her like they did Maleficent's backstory. And so I would love to see the backstory on that.

[Busy Phillips]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, absolutely. Because who knows what's going on down there? He's a very patriarchal father. It's a royal system. Just once, at the end of one of these Disney movies, I would like, like, the stories leading to, like, the prince and the princess are going to kiss and be happily ever after, but right before they kiss, a group of people with pitchforks come in and kill them and say, we're a democracy and we're going to have a fucking election. Like, they don't get to live in the castle anymore. This man doesn't get to go from house to house. Putting shoes on people's feet. That's no way to run a fucking bake sale, you know? Like, what are we doing here? Like, her only hope is that a guy likes her fucking feet. And that's a good. That's one of the good ones.

[T.S. Madison]

Wait a minute. Hold on, John. I'm into feet. If you got a pretty big toe, I may write you a check.

[John Lovett]

But my point being, And I think that that's a beautiful thing and, you know, don't want to yuck your yum at all.

[T.S. Madison]

Are you not into feet? You're not into feet?

[John Lovett]

I would say that I am sort of. Feet. They're there, you know, I don't hate them. I don't love them. They're not. They're just part of the body, you know?

[T.S. Madison]

No, the feet can be so. Or what is it?

[John Lovett]

Orgasmic, if that's the word you want.

[T.S. Madison]

Yeah, that. You know, if you put a foot, like, right under your nose like this.

[John Lovett]

Sure.

[T.S. Madison]

And you just absorb all of that. Can I get a towel?

[John Lovett]

Madison?

[T.S. Madison]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

It's important for all of us, queer and heterosexual alike, to understand that we are part of history. And as students of queer history, or at least someone who had the stonewall Reader covered in dust on my nightstand for a while. We want to use the opportunity to catch up on the recent scuttlebutt in a segment we're calling Four Score and Seven Queers Ago.

[Kathleen Turner]

Okay.

[T.S. Madison]

Come on. Oh, wait a minute. Hold on.

[Rob Reiner]

Oh, my God.

[John Lovett]

There we are.

[T.S. Madison]

I look good up there. Damn it.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

Yes. Four Score and seven Queers Ago.

[John Lovett]

I feel as though your statue is good and my head is too high up. My neck looks weird.

[T.S. Madison]

Well, are you getting any complaints about your head?

[John Lovett]

You can't even look at me. You can't even look at me because of how you that up. No complaints. No complaints. Is that what you were looking for?

[T.S. Madison]

Yes, that's what I was looking for. Yes.

[John Lovett]

So here's how this works. We are gonna go. That's so funny. Have you received any complaints about your head? That's not how it goes. Yes.

[T.S. Madison]

I wanna know, honey, has anybody went to HR about your head.

[John Lovett]

Moving forward? Okay, here's how this works. We're gonna rate very recent moments in queer history on a scale from one to eight. One being the least to eight being the most historic because eight is the gayest number. Are you ready? I am. First up, June 10, 2024, leaked audio of Martha Ann Alito, wife of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, hit the Internet. Here, she describes a flag she wants to fly as a protest against the pride flag.

[Thomas Lennon]

I made a flag in my head. This is how I satisfy myself. I made a flag. It's white. It has yellow and orange flames around it. And in the middle is the word vergona. Vergonia in Italian means shame.

[John Lovett]

Vergonia.

[Thomas Lennon]

V, E, R, G, O, G, N A vergonia. Shame.

[Kathleen Turner]

Shame.

[T.S. Madison]

Shame on you.

[John Lovett]

You know, anyway, I just. Just for.

[Kathleen Turner]

You know.

[T.S. Madison]

I've always wanted a begonia.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah, they come, you know, always.

[T.S. Madison]

I've always wanted a begonia.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Vigonia. In spring. Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

In the spring, in a bathing suit of a nice vigonia.

[John Lovett]

So what would you rank it? 1 to 8? How historic is it?

[T.S. Madison]

Oh, it's a. It's like a five.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I think it's a five.

[T.S. Madison]

Listen, I'll forget about a foregone. By the time I leave here, honey, the alcohol is going to be five.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. May 29, 2024. Pope Francis apologizes for using an Italian slur against gay men when asked whether the Church should admit said gay men in a private meeting with Italian bishops. And.

[T.S. Madison]

Wait, there are gay men in private meetings with bishops?

[John Lovett]

I think there's more than. I think there's A fair number, which is, I think, what the Pope was commenting on. And I know this is not the word, but. And I'm sorry, but ever since, I can only imagine the Pope going, fettuccine.

[T.S. Madison]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

And I know that's not right, but. And they're like, hey, we're serving a little too much Faguccini Alfredo at the Afredo. And I know he's not even Italian, he's Argentinian, but still. Still. I just. It's Faguccini Alfredo with a side of begonia. And then he apologized, but he used the slur again, and he said, there's an air of froggiacini in the Vatican. I guess the word is frakia. Gene. I don't know. What do you think? Pope, Pope, Pope saying that?

[T.S. Madison]

Well, I mean, of course that's going to be somewhere near an 8. Because it's the Pope.

[John Lovett]

It is the Pope. I think it's saying this. I think it's like a seven. It's like a seven. Seven.

[T.S. Madison]

Because that's the Pope saying that, you know, Pope. The Pope.

[John Lovett]

Frigging a Pope. Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

Fraggini virgonia.

[John Lovett]

I'm getting hungry.

[Kathleen Turner]

Which.

[T.S. Madison]

That lady has some good vergonia over there, honey. They serve it fried or baked at the Orange Peel. Bartender, can you give me that fried begonia from back there, please? And give me a side of fettuccine sauce. Goddammit.

[John Lovett]

T.S. madison. Thank you so much.

[T.S. Madison]

Thank y'all for having me. Thank you.

[John Lovett]

In March, the incredible Busy Phillips visited the show to answer a very important question. What is a woman? And if you think conservatives aren't obsessed with that question now, just wait till you've had four more years of Trump in the White House. Okay, Sort of. We'll deal with that one day at a time. One day at a time anyway, while I collect myself. Enjoy. Busy. In the new season of Girls 5, Eva, your character sings an amazing song called Is There a me or Is it just guys?

[Rachel Bloom]

A question I have asked myself so many times since I was 14 years old.

[John Lovett]

Well, is there a me or is me just guys?

[Rachel Bloom]

John? Yeah, there is a me. And it's mostly guys.

[John Lovett]

Now. Inspired by that song, we wanted to see if you could definitively answer the question conservatives have been asking for almost a decade, which is, what is a woman?

[Rachel Bloom]

What is a woman? What is a woman?

[John Lovett]

First question. Is a woman a human who believes in horoscopes?

[Rachel Bloom]

Mostly? Yeah, sure.

[John Lovett]

Do you think that.

[Rachel Bloom]

Tell me, tell me.

[John Lovett]

Here's the problem I have.

[Rachel Bloom]

What do you have? I don't Talk to me, John.

[John Lovett]

The problem I have is every time someone says. Every time I say, oh, horoscopes are silly. Then someone says, what are you? And then I say, I'm a Leo. And they say, of course you are.

[Rachel Bloom]

I mean, literally, have you ever met more of a fucking Leo?

[John Lovett]

This is the problem.

[Rachel Bloom]

When I say I'm a cancer, and then I'm like, but Leo rising people are like, now it all makes sense.

[John Lovett]

So interesting.

[Rachel Bloom]

I don't know. Is the tide affected by the moon? Yes, it's all water.

[John Lovett]

The tide is affected by the moon.

[Rachel Bloom]

But we're like, mostly fucking water and we're affected by the moon. I'm sorry. We just are the planets. Do a thing. It happens. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

Is that how it go? That's what it's doing. It's the tides, honey. Is that what it is, honey?

[Rachel Bloom]

I bleed on a full moon. I ovulate on a new moon every fucking month since I was 12. I had to think. I had to think. I couldn't remember. But that's it.

[John Lovett]

Is a woman a being who is looking forward to Beyonce's new album? Cowboy Carter?

[Rachel Bloom]

Are you kidding me?

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Rachel Bloom]

Also everyone who isn't producer Kendra.

[John Lovett]

Today I came in and I said, hello, and she did not clock it at all. And I said, hey, how are you? Nothing. And then I startled her, and then she took out her AirPods. And she was like, I'm listening to the album. I was like, but it's not out yet. She's like, it's out in Australia. I have a vpn. Is a woman an animal who feels like she's ready to move from body positivity to body neutrality?

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm so fucking over it.

[John Lovett]

Over.

[Rachel Bloom]

Give me fucking Ozempic. I, like, don't care. I didn't create the fucking problem. We all live with it. We're not changing it. Everyone go fuck themselves. Sorry. All these motherfuckers have been on HGH forever. I never saw one fucking Time magazine cover about it. I'm sorry.

[John Lovett]

They were on hgh.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, the men. The men.

[John Lovett]

Oh, the men were on hgh. Is that how they. Is that how they become superheroes?

[Rachel Bloom]

Fucking movie stars have been so fit after age 40. What do you think has happened? They're on drugs and then all of a sudden, Ozempic comes along and people are like, oh, that's a fucking big deal. Like, we can't have that. Like, what in God's name do you think has been happening? It's all, oh, God, people hate women so Much. It's like, we didn't create this system that we live in. And anyone who has. Anyone in their family who deals with obesity or who has been struggled or had morbid obesity themselves knows that you are treated differently, that your job prospects are different, that the entire culture is built around shaming and being horrible, especially to women who are overweight. So I don't give a fuck about body paws or body neutrality. Let people just fucking live. But we can't do that. So now is there's a miracle drug. These are miracle drugs that come in and, like, let people fucking have it without shame. I'm just.

[T.S. Madison]

Sorry.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm so sick of it. Because I'm so fucking sick of it all. Like, I can't. A woman is a person who is.

[John Lovett]

Fed the fuck up.

[Rachel Bloom]

I will just answer that. And that is like, I'm done.

[John Lovett]

I'm on my jar. But it's hard to get. Cause the diabetics keep taking it and it's like. So I kind of have to, like, spread out my doses because these sugar weenies need it medically.

[Rachel Bloom]

I've had a moment.

[T.S. Madison]

I've had a day.

[John Lovett]

I've had a week.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's been a long time here in Los Angeles these past nine days.

[John Lovett]

Hmm.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's fine. Everything's great. Things are gonna be fine. Don't worry about it. You and I can talk about it later.

[John Lovett]

Can't wait. Busy. Phillips, everybody. Girls by Vemma Season 3 is out now on Netflix in January. Rob Reiner, the Hollywood icon behind films like Stand By Me, the Princess Bride, and When Harry Met Sally, shared his thoughts about his incredible O. And about polyamory. Spoiler alert. He loves it. Just kidding. He has exactly the thoughts you think that Rob Rer would have. And, God, he's funny about it. So take a listen. I want to ask. I. I'm just. Have to. I'm just so excited to have you. And there's so many.

[Busy Phillips]

You.

[Kathleen Turner]

You look excited. Tell your face.

[John Lovett]

What the. I'm. Hey, for the. For the audio listener. I'm fucking beaming.

[Kathleen Turner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

I'm beaming. I'm electric. I'm fully clicked in here.

[Kathleen Turner]

Right?

[John Lovett]

I'm so close to you.

[Kathleen Turner]

I know, I know. I'm getting. I'm getting a chubby. Yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

Here's the thing. People say the secret doesn't work. It works. You gotta manifest. You gotta manifest. All right, who had more chemistry? Demi Moore and Tom Cruise or Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal?

[Kathleen Turner]

Who and Tom Cruise?

[John Lovett]

To me, Demi Moore.

[Kathleen Turner]

Demi Moore and Tom Cruise. Well, you know, they don't have sex in the. In the movie.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I know.

[Kathleen Turner]

And a lot of people said. A lot of people said to me, I don't understand. You have this beautiful girl and beautiful guy. Why don't you get them together? I said, because this movie's not about that. This movie's about a guy who has never tested himself in a courtroom because his father was a great lawyer. And again, I made a connection with my father having been a tremendous success and the son coming on the heels. It was not a sex thing. When Harry Met Sally, that's all it's about, is men and women. And when I made that, that was an extension of my dating life. And I was making. I was single for 10 years. I was divorced, you know, after being married for 10 years, I was single, and I was making a mess out of my dating life. And that became the basis for When Harry Met Sally. So it would be, you know, Nora Ephraim. When I told her the idea, I said, it's about scenes from. Of a relationship. It's what men and women, it's what they go through this dance. And people would ask me all the time, they'd say, I don't understand these two people. They're professional people. They only talk about relationships. And men and women, don't they ever talk about their work or anything? I said, yeah, they talked about their work all the time. I just didn't put the camera on when they were doing that. I only let them see this other part.

[John Lovett]

Hey, can men and women be friends?

[Kathleen Turner]

Yes, they can be best friends. But this is my feeling about it. If the relationship is. Is over and they go their separate ways, if the woman gets with a man or a man gets with another woman, then those original men and women can no longer be close friends because you're now connected to another person. So, yes, on some level, they can be, but they can't be. Afterwards, there's always a threat of something coming in, unless you're polyamorous, in which case, hey, I don't know what the hell you're doing. I really. I don't get that one at all. I just.

[John Lovett]

You don't get polycules.

[Kathleen Turner]

I don't get it.

[John Lovett]

You don't get it?

[Kathleen Turner]

No, because I get it. It's called cheating. I get it.

[John Lovett]

No, but. But imagine if cheating were allowed.

[Kathleen Turner]

Yeah, right. But. But it. Oh, somebody always gets hurt. Somebody always gets jealous. Somebody always gets upset. It. It doesn't. Like, oh, forever. They're going to be like. No, it. You tell me one 50 year polyamorous, you know?

[Busy Phillips]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

I do think that I was. We have. It's funny, we were having some similar conversation. I do think it's like, hey, listen, at the end of your life, you want one person holding your hand, and if you try for two, you may end up with none.

[Kathleen Turner]

You know, that's my feeling. I feel the same way. I mean, you want to just, you know, you make a commitment to somebody if you love them and, you know, you can stay friends, but then if you break up, you go with somebody else, you're not going to be best friends. And by friends, deep friends, I don't mean acquaintances. And deep friends share everything. They share the innermost feelings. And you won't be able to do that with your ex. You know, you just wouldn't because the new person going to say, what the hell are you doing? Talking. What are you doing? Whatever. You know, what's going on here.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, so you mentioned that. Of course they talked about work. You just didn't put in the movie. I think I can ask you this because he's talked about it publicly. I worked on the newsroom with Aaron Sorkin. He would tell a story about you. And the story was basically that after A Few Good Men, you know, he, he went into a hotel room, he came out a huge success, goes back into the Four Seasons. He's doing cocaine writing for days at a time till the cocaine runs out, getting more cocaine, keeping on writing. And he sends you a, what my recollection. Like a 400 page.

[Kathleen Turner]

Here's the truth. It's amazing that he tells you that because that, that's true. That what happened. What happened is we, we were going to do this movie which eventually became the American President. And what happened was Robert Redford had the rights to it. And they had had like 14 different drafts from different writers. I never read any of them, but I met with Robert Redford and I said, look, I can do this with Aaron because we had this great experience on, on A Few Good Men. We want to do this together. But. And we started working on it and Aaron was very. His issue was gun control. That's the thing he cared about. My issue was the environment. And so we wanted to get those issues into this romantic story set in the world of the White House. And so we, we, we crafted this. The first draft that Aaron sent me before we started working on, it was 309 pages.

[John Lovett]

309 pages.

[Kathleen Turner]

And I said, Aaron, a script is normally 100 to 150. It's like I said, aaron, we can't give this to Robert Redford. I'm gonna make him read 309 pages. Crazy. But he was on coke and he was driving. Yeah, he was not Redford, but no, no, Aaron. And so I said, we got to rewrite this. Let's work on this. So he'd send me pages. He was at the Four Seasons. He was a couple of blocks away. He sent me. Fax me in facts in those days. Send me pages. I write. I'd send pages back. We go back and forth, back and forth. And the 309 turned 34. And I went, aaron, this is not going to work. I said, give me this thing. Then I took it and I started, you know, massaging it and doing that. And I got it down to, I think, like 170 pages. And we did send it to Redford. And he says, I don't want to do political. I want it just to be a romantic love story. And so he wound up not doing it. And then Michael Douglas came in. But you were right about Aaron at that time. And then they wrote me a letter, you know, afterwards. You know, like the 12 step thing where they say, I'm sorry that I up your life. Well, the way that he was very nice about it, the way that he.

[John Lovett]

Told it, was that. That. That basically you. You were given this monstrosity that couldn't become a movie, but there was beautiful things in it. And that you basically said all this part about the staff. Let's put this aside. This. This is your movie. And then he took the pages that you didn't use, and he made the West Wing.

[Kathleen Turner]

Well, he used a lot of pages. That was fine. You know, it's cool. And he did ask me.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kathleen Turner]

He said, is it okay? Because there were hundreds of pages that we didn't use. And I said, yeah, sure, sure. I don't have any proprietary thing about any of that stuff. I mean, to me, a creative person, you go and do it and. And I was fine. I was totally cool with that. But to give you an example, you remember, I don't know if you've seen the movie. At the end, Michael Douglas gives this speech in the. In the. In the press room, the press briefing room. And the speech is all about being the president and what it means to be a president. Aaron wrote a speech that was 15 pages long, and it wound up being about three and a half pages, which is still a lot of stuff.

[John Lovett]

He only. He pulls off a racing stripe, you know.

[Kathleen Turner]

Yeah, yeah. But he used all that stuff. He wound up in the, I think only in the first year maybe of West Wing, but then after that other stuff.

[John Lovett]

Rob Reiner, thank you so much. So great. Really appreciate it. Really appreciate it.

[T.S. Madison]

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.

[John Lovett]

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Simply Safe. If you ever worry about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act. Right now, Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners. Get 50% off today just by visiting simplisafe.com love it. This is your last chance to protect your home at Simplisafe's lowest prices of the year. Simply Safe is a new way to protect your home that stops intruders before they break into your home. Old school systems only take action once someone is already inside. That's too late. Simplisafe's Active Guard Outdoor Protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. If someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, those agents see them in real time, talk to them directly, set off your spotlights, and even call the police before they've had a chance to break in. Plus, there are no long term contracts, no cancellation fees, and it's around $1 a day for all of this protection. I set up a SimpliSafe system. You sure did. Incredibly easy to do. Works perfectly well. The customer support is great. The app is great. I highly recommend it. Very easy to do. Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only. You can get 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to simplisafe.com love it. That's simplisafe.com L O V E T T There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Selectquote there's so much uncertainty in the world. What can you do to control it? Not that much, to be honest. You have to learn to live with the uncertainty. Anxiety is in some ways a way of trying to control your future experiences. You know you can't. You can't. You simply can't. Peter it feels like most of the news we're subject to 24. Seven is bad or downright depressing about the future. With so much out of our control, the future could feel overwhelming. Regain control with a life insurance policy from Selectquote Cuz there's one thing that we do know for certain we're all gonna die. You know that's part of life. Selectquote is one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985, the year Marty McFly goes back in time. The life insurance agents at Selectquote work for you to tailor a life insurance policy for your individual needs in as little as 15 minutes. And have you ever worried about getting coverage with a preexisting health condition? Selectquote partners with carriers that provide policies for a variety of health conditions. Selectquote they shop, you save get the right life insurance for you for [e-mail] love it go to SelectQuote.com loveitt today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com love it love or Leave it is brought to you by Prolon these days people are learning about the benefits of a fasting mimicking diet. From weight loss to improved mental and physical performance and improved gut health, some still worry about the whole not eating part. Well, that's exactly why Prolon was created. Prolon is a fast that includes food and when it's done in combination with other healthy eating habits and exercise can provide many of these advantages. Introducing Prolon, a revolutionary plant based nutrition program that nourishes the body while making cells believe they're fasting. Researched and developed for decades at the University of Southern California Longevity Institute and backed by leading US Medical centers, Prolon helps promote healthy blood sugar, support cardiovascular health and reduce abdominal fat. Prolon is offering love and leave listeners 15% off their five day nutrition program. Go to prolon life.com love it that's P R O L O N life.com love it for this special offer, these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. See site for details. What does the J.D. and J.D. vance stand for? No one knows, least of all me. Luckily this year we came up with a whole host of options for our new vice president to choose from. Did we ever beat Jar Jar Dinks? Vance, I'll let you be the judge. Speaking of men who freak out when women have fun, Joybird Defiler Vance seemed to agree with the hosts. Judge Doody Vance, Justin Timberlake Vance Jabba the Dud Vance, Jew Detector Vance, Jeffrey Dahmer Vance, Jar Jar Dinks Vance, Jadoff Dittler, Jennifer Dopez Vance. Meanwhile, Joe Dirt Vance, Joan Duddy and Vance Jellicle Dat Vance, John Dollinger. Vance. Jingo Dingo. Vance's spokesperson, the legendary cat. Kathleen Turner stopped by our Boston show in June to regale us with behind the scenes stories from her decades in the industry, including a very special exchange she had with the late Matthew Perry when she was on Friends. Guess you can say me and Kathleen Turner are officially friends. That's embarrassing. We're acquaintances. Acquaintances with a strong vibe. Please welcome to the stage, and we cannot believe it, a living legend. The one, the only Kathleen fucking Turner. We have a classic love it or leave it game that was Tailor Made for you. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for Was I in this? Here's how it works. Chris is out there in the house. Audience, you will not embarrass yourselves in front of Kathleen Turner. All right? Raise your hand if you want to play and Chris will find you in the audience. Kathleen played a cartoon shoe in who Framed Roger Rabbit.

[Thomas Lennon]

True.

[Rob Reiner]

False.

[T.S. Madison]

Ah, damn.

[John Lovett]

Jessica Rabbit. Jessica Joan. There is a shoe.

[T.S. Madison]

There is a shoe. It goes in the dip.

[Rob Reiner]

I think my favorite line from that was, I love you more than any woman has ever loved a rabbit.

[John Lovett]

I love that. I love that. What an amazing. Were you Jessica Rabbit or was Jessica Rabbit you. You're now so entwined. Like, it seemed the character couldn't exist without you. Right.

[Rob Reiner]

Well, Bob Zemeckis directed and he directed Romancing the Stone, so we'd known each other, you know, for many years. And I think that when he wanted just a voice, he, you know, he. He thought of me. What he didn't realize and which was absolutely gorgeous for me was I was extremely pregnant then. And so I would waddle into the studio, you know, and I have these friends, like opera singers, who claim that they gain a note on either end with the resonance. I don't know. Anyway, the last day I was supposed to work, my water broke and I'm in the hospital saying, call the studio, Tell him I'm not coming today.

[John Lovett]

I like that. I like that. The sexiest voice ever recorded had to call in for maternity leave. That's cool. That's great. And finally, Kathleen played what was described as Chandler's dad on Friends. Yeah. That is such a. All of these movies. It's so interesting situating some of these movies, because whether it's the strong women are existing in this sort of misogynist space, and then you play Chandler's dad at a time in which there wasn't even really the word trans. And yet it's a kind of loving portrait of this person in the end. Have you thought about that?

[Rob Reiner]

I was doing a one woman show based on Tallulah Bankhead, of course, up in San Francisco. And two of the writers from Friends came up and came backstage and talked to me about playing this man in drag. Yeah. And you're right. I mean, people have asked me since then, would you do it now? I mean, shouldn't it be done by a man? Well, of course it should, but we didn't have that then. I mean, honestly, it wasn't really an option. And so I wanted to. Okay, now wait, I have to. Okay. I had a dresser on the show, right? Gay guy who also did drag. And so I said, you got to take me to some clubs. You know, I need to understand what this is and what I have to do. So he took me to these. To these drag clubs, and they were brilliant. And they were, oh, so such angry laughter, you know? I mean, they were hilarious. But there always seemed to be this edge of real anger underneath. And so, first day of rehearsal at the studio, I go in and I read through the script, and suddenly the producers and everybody else run off to a corner and huddle. And then someone comes over bravely and says, it's great. You know, it's just great. I mean, you're great. But we wonder, could you just be a little nicer? Yep. Okay.

[John Lovett]

Well, it's interesting because it's clearly this. Maybe it wouldn't obviously exist in the same way today, but this character is described as a drag queen, but clearly living as a woman all the time.

[Rob Reiner]

He's fully. Yeah, he's not just a drag queen. His life is as a woman.

[John Lovett]

Right, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. It's in. What a.

[Rob Reiner]

Well, I'll tell you, it's funny, though, because Matthew Perry used to call me dad, you know, when he would see.

[John Lovett]

Me dad, that's sweet.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah. Poor baby.

[John Lovett]

Thank you for being here.

[Rob Reiner]

I enjoyed it.

[John Lovett]

Was this fun? Do you have fun? Do you have fun?

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, I have fun.

[John Lovett]

Everybody give it up for the one, the Only, Kathleen Turner. July 21, 2024, was a day that will go down in American history. For it was the day we dropped the episode where comedian, actor and writer Thomas Lennon joined us in Madison, Wisconsin, to ask the audience, hey, did I write this? Also on July 21, Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 presidential election and endorsed Kamala Harris. It was an interesting footnote to the day's main historical entry, which was, again, Thomas Lennon. Let's take a listen. Please welcome to the stage the One the only. It's Thomas Lennon. He's running full speed. Yes. Okay. Hi. Hi. Thank you for being here. Come on. So now you are an incredible writer who has written on so many projects.

[Busy Phillips]

I'm a busy writer.

[John Lovett]

You're very busy. So it's time we play a twist on a lovely classic called Did I Write this? We're going to have Chris out there. All right. If somebody would like to let somebody raise your hand. Want to answer a question?

[Busy Phillips]

Was I the pen behind? And I'm going to say her name properly. The Lindsay Lohan vehicle, Herbie Fully Loaded.

[T.S. Madison]

Yes.

[Busy Phillips]

Correct.

[John Lovett]

Got it. Correct. So you talk about in the book about making this movie. What is your takeaway now, all these years later?

[Busy Phillips]

A couple things. Lindsay Lohan is. She's excellent in the film. The film actually did really well. And everyone just hated us so much when that movie came out. The reason. Oh, it's in the actual poster right now. We actually got fired. Even though I'm in the movie at some point. We got fired off of writing the film because the studio producer, after something happened, was like. And then Herbie's gonna smile. And we were like, herbie's not fucking, like, liquid metal. He's not the T1. He can. His lights go on and off. His trunk opens. He goes, beep, beep, beep. But he's not like. He's not gonna go, like, fucking smile like the Joker. That's insane.

[John Lovett]

That's crazy.

[Busy Phillips]

If the car smiles at Lindsay Lohan, she's gonna go, that's crazy. This is a sentient, like, insane thing. So that was the hill that we died on. And then we. So for some reason, we were perfectly happy to write a Herbie Fully Loaded movie, but gonna be dicks about that. The car couldn't smile, which was such an awesome idea.

[John Lovett]

No. And that's.

[Busy Phillips]

And they really got us on the poster, right.

[John Lovett]

Because the car does seem to smile.

[Busy Phillips]

He's just got a eating grin on his face. He's almost saying, hi, Tom.

[John Lovett]

So Herbie is a sentient vehicle.

[Busy Phillips]

Herbie. Yeah, Herbie. This was actually, I think probably something like the sixth Herbie movie. Something like that.

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Busy Phillips]

Yeah, it was. It was a. It was a. Interesting time to write that picture, for sure. Okay. I wrote. Did I write Reno 911, the hunt for QAnon?

[T.S. Madison]

This feels like it's distressing.

[Busy Phillips]

How many of you have not seen that? That's a real movie.

[Kathleen Turner]

I consider.

[John Lovett]

I'm a big fan. I just found out about this.

[Busy Phillips]

Okay. That's really fucking Distressing. This is a giant movie that came out on Paramount Plus. I thought it was a giant movie. Sorry. The answer was.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I'm going to go with yes.

[Busy Phillips]

Well, yeah, obviously, yes.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Busy Phillips]

One of my smarty pants friends pointed out, they're like, shouldn't it really be called Reno911 the Hunt for Q? And I was like, yeah, but they already told us what the title was.

[John Lovett]

That's right, because QAnon is everywhere.

[Busy Phillips]

And plus, like, we didn't make Herbie smile. I'm like, I'm not going to fucking do this again. They told us what the title was. Shut up and do it. Sometimes the answer to who Q is in that movie is RuPaul and a speak and Spell.

[John Lovett]

That's cool. That's as good a guess as any. It's as good a guess as I.

[Busy Phillips]

Sorry, you spoiled it. Please watch it. It's on Paramount Plus.

[T.S. Madison]

I will. I'll watch it.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, you. It'd be good if they just hit Paramount.

[Busy Phillips]

If everybody just sign. Sign up for Paramount plus and just leave me on.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah. Next question. Did Thomas write the Pacifier starring one Vin Diesel?

[T.S. Madison]

I hope so.

[John Lovett]

Yes. In the book, you said you met with Jackie Chan to potentially star in the Pacifier. Before Vin signed on, it was 100%.

[Busy Phillips]

Just supposed to be a Jackie Chan movie. One thing is, in the original draft written for Jackie, pitched to Jackie. Jackie loved the idea. He said, script very good. After we pitched it, he did like, some kung fu at lunch. It was really, like, one of the coolest days of my life. And the idea was that he goes to, like, a really great Chinese market and he's going to make a duck for the children. And so the children freak out. And of course, then he becomes friends with the duck. And he has sort of a scene where the duck is like his Ra's Al Ghul, and he kind of talks to the duck a little bit and they become friends. And the duck, of course, is a popular character. So when Jackie ended up, they didn't want to do the movie with Jackie for a minute because the tuxedo had just kind of. In Hollywood, you can cool off, like, in a millisecond, and then you're hot, and then you're freezing cold and you're hot. It's gaslighting all the time. But so Jackie was no longer gonna be in the movie. It was Vin Diesel. And I was like, well, let me go do a pass. Cause we obviously have to cut the duck. That doesn't make sense. And I'm like, no. The only thing in the movie that for sure stays is the duck. Like, but why? They're like, because he has a duck. I'm like that.

[Thomas Lennon]

How?

[Busy Phillips]

Poster. I'm always wrong. Look at the poster. Every hill I die on is in the poster going like that. Ducks and smiling beetles.

[John Lovett]

I don't. Did they make the car smile? I guess so.

[Busy Phillips]

They did make the car smile. Pacifier was a sort of oddly, a big hit.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I get it.

[Busy Phillips]

So was Herbie, by the way. Even though it's a weird movie.

[John Lovett]

Well, because it's about ascension. Car that has no rights.

[Busy Phillips]

Yeah, we did. We made a huge mistake. Which was at the premiere of Herbie Fully Loaded at the El Capitan in Hollywood. We talked to Nina Jacobson, who was the president of Disney, about what the sequel was going to be. Don't ever do that. Don't ever do that. Don't ever go to the bar and be like, woohoo. What's the next one? Herbie is gonna get into that. Don't do that. Don't ever talk about what the next.

[John Lovett]

With Nina Jacobson, the former head of the studio. Yeah. You don't bring up the sequel for her.

[Busy Phillips]

We all talk about it.

[John Lovett]

High five.

[Busy Phillips]

And early. Don't do it. It's a curse.

[John Lovett]

That's the curse.

[Busy Phillips]

The curse of talking about the movie too much.

[John Lovett]

Did Thomas write for Comedy Central's legendary comedy series Strangers With Candy?

[T.S. Madison]

I'm a contrarian.

[John Lovett]

No, incorrect. Come on.

[Busy Phillips]

That was an interesting one because. So Stephen Colbert was the head writer of Strangers With Candy, who has also played one of the main characters. There they are. It's Most of exit 57. It's Amy and Paul and everybody. But really, almost nobody else wrote Strangers with Candy episodes. I don't know why they really let me write one, but I wrote the one where Jerry had traded away. She'd had a child years ago that she traded for a guitar. And then this new boy comes to school and it seems like this might be the boy that she traded for. So she goes to the Sadie Hawkins Dance with what might be her son, and it's like very romantic. And she gives a long speech about how she always wondered what happened to that guitar. It was a good episode. Stephen Colbert's tough, Tough guy to work for on that show. Tough. He's very, very. He's very hands on writing.

[John Lovett]

Really?

[Busy Phillips]

Yeah, yeah, very.

[John Lovett]

He's smart.

[Busy Phillips]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

He's so funny.

[Busy Phillips]

It gets a little. It's. Yeah. Sometimes it feels like, yeah. Intense.

[John Lovett]

I like that.

[Busy Phillips]

I mean, we're friends, but it's also. It feels, you know, it's like definitely like the stakes are high. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Busy Phillips]

You don't want to. You don't want to let him down.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. We've gone on the late show with and it's, you know, the people you meet and they're just like, I don't know. I'm pretty. I'm pretty in nerd to it at this point, but I am so nervous.

[Busy Phillips]

Oh, no, that one is practically.

[John Lovett]

Yes. You can just see it. He's so smart.

[Busy Phillips]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

He's so funny. Yes. He has such a. There's also just like a righteousness to him. Like an integrity to how he does things.

[Busy Phillips]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

That it's just. You really. I really want. I wanted. I wanted to do for him what he wants me to do. It's like it's not that I want his approval. I want to succeed in the way he hopes.

[Busy Phillips]

Oh, I want his approval very much.

[John Lovett]

And I also want the approval. I want his approval 100%.

[Busy Phillips]

One time he told me that I look handsome, and it was the first time I was happy In, I don't know, 35, 40 years. But, you know, that was just. It felt good. Yeah. That's a great strange with candy also on Paramount plus. Please go to Paramount plus, everybody.

[John Lovett]

And if you take anything away from.

[Busy Phillips]

This on cuz, put it on.

[Kathleen Turner]

Come on.

[Busy Phillips]

Just put a thumb on it.

[John Lovett]

Thomas Lennon, thank you so much for being here.

[Busy Phillips]

Oh, my God. Love it.

[John Lovett]

While I was busy sucking down sand and having my sunburned ass handed to me by my tribemates, the wonderful Matt Rogers hosted a perfect week of love it or leave it in May. Open your ears and your hearts. As his guest, Rachel Bloom recalls a story about 9, 11 that you'll never forget.

[T.S. Madison]

Y'all ready for the next guest? Please welcome to the stage. She was America's crazy ex girlfriend. Now she's my crazy platonic stage wife. It's the unbelievable Rachel Bloom. I just want to say love it is shivering on a rock right now. I want to remind everyone, John, your show is in great hands. Everything's going well, buddy. So speaking of things, that started in the aughts talking about Survivor there, so I don't know if you know this, but last week America celebrated the 20th anniversary of the release of Shrek 2.

[John Lovett]

I love.

[Thomas Lennon]

I was so wondering what we were gonna talk about. Cause I realized they sent an email asking, what do you want to talk about? And I was so. I'm solo parenting this week.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Thomas Lennon]

So I'm a mother, so that's my real job. No. So I was like, whatever he wants to talk about, I trust him. So I love that. Of course we're gonna talk about fucking Shrek, too.

[T.S. Madison]

Yeah. And I knew that you would love it.

[Thomas Lennon]

Shrek came out in what year? 2000.

[T.S. Madison]

So Shrek. The first Shrek was 2001. But we're talking a first.

[Thomas Lennon]

Pre 9, 11 or post 9, 11. That's important to know.

[T.S. Madison]

Did someone just say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Did someone just say moments after.

[Kathleen Turner]

You.

[T.S. Madison]

Go, you go pre 9, 11 or post. And someone in the crowd goes, it was moments after. It was Tower one, Tower two, Shrek two. Okay, so first, I always ask when.

[Thomas Lennon]

Something comes out in 2001, if it's pre 9, 11, or post, because I remember that time.

[T.S. Madison]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Thomas Lennon]

That's all I got.

[T.S. Madison]

And that's why. Do you want. Do you want to hear something dark? This is true. September 11, 2001. What was the day Mariah Carey released her album that accompanied the film Glitter? I remember going to school that morning and writing the header on my paper. 9, 11, 2001. And I remember saying, probably out loud, this is the day that I get glitter. My mother. I get a call, like, send, like, so many kids.

[Thomas Lennon]

You are on East Coast.

[T.S. Madison]

We were east coast. I had just gotten to school. Can you send Matt Rogers down to the. Down to the office? His mother is here to take him home for the day. I'm like, oh, my God. My mom is taking me to get glitter. I quickly learned that was not the reason for my early dismissal. My mom, concerned, was like, there's just something going on in the city, and I really. I don't like what's happening, and I want you to be home with me. I said, okay, are we going to get Glitter? She goes, I don't think the store is going to be open. And I go, what? What's going on in the city? That the store wouldn't be open on Long Island. And so she goes, oh, my God. And I think I saw her realize in that moment, like, I have to get my gay son this album now, or else what already is a nightmare will be even worse in my own home. So we did stop by the record store. They were closing up. And my mom goes, please just let us quickly do this. And the people that were working there were like, okay. Anyway, it's an underrated album.

[Thomas Lennon]

To this day, please make this a short film, because what I'm picturing is a line of employees salute you as you walk by with glitter, just like if this is an American.

[T.S. Madison]

So when you say person out there who was like moments after. Literally moments after.

[Thomas Lennon]

My husband was. No, this will be. This will start. My husband lived two blocks from the towers on 9 11. He was at NYU. He was at the Water street dorm.

[T.S. Madison]

Oh my God. At the Water street dorm.

[Kathleen Turner]

Yeah.

[Thomas Lennon]

And his 911 stories, insane because first plane hit tower one and he went out to go see. Because they thought it was just an accident.

[T.S. Madison]

Right.

[Thomas Lennon]

And then it was like September. He's wearing sweatpants and he went back inside because his balls were cold. And that is the thing that maybe saved his life. His balls. His balls being cold because otherwise he would have been like right under the fucking towers with the plane.

[T.S. Madison]

His balls saved his life.

[Thomas Lennon]

Yes, his weak little balls.

[T.S. Madison]

The fact that his balls, they worked.

[John Lovett]

Simon Rex, the man, the mystery. The reason we need more scary movie sequels. We were excited about Simon when we knew he was coming on the show, but when he started ruminating on the nature of ghosts during this August episode, well, you have to hear it yourself. Listen closely and see if you can pick up on our head writer Halle busting up backstage. From her to you. Thank you, Simon Rex. Simon, you shot at the Hacienda Temazon Sur in Mexico. Yeah. Which is I think the most beautiful place I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. Look at that. That's cool.

[Rob Reiner]

It's a old kind of creepy place.

[John Lovett]

But it now it's beautiful. But it had like. I don't believe in ghosts, but it would be haunted if the ghosts were real. I invite ghosts to come hang out. I don't think they could physically hurt you. I think make they scare you, but they don't. They can't hurt you. Right. So I gotta say, for a guy that doesn't believe in ghosts, you got some very specific ideas of what they can and cannot do. But isn't. Then there would be cat ghosts and dinosaur ghosts would be taking up space. Why just humans? Why do we think we're the only ghosts? That's a really important point. I know.

[T.S. Madison]

Well, in a lot of ghost media there are animal goats.

[John Lovett]

They are, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

[T.S. Madison]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Ghost dog.

[Thomas Lennon]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

So, yeah, I just don't believe in ghosts. But maybe I shouldn't say that publicly because now they're coming for me. Right.

[T.S. Madison]

But that's how you conjure them. Is talking about them on a podcast.

[John Lovett]

Do you believe in ghosts?

[T.S. Madison]

I do.

[John Lovett]

I do believe in ghosts. No, but I. I think that do I believe that there are forces moving through us that we can't possibly understand that, like, sort of defy our comprehension. And then we use our three dimensional brain in a multidimensional universe to kind of make sense of things that our brains simply cannot make sense of and describe them as goes. Yes. Okay.

[Busy Phillips]

I think.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that's what I think. Have you had any ghosts?

[T.S. Madison]

I.

[John Lovett]

Not personally, but I just feel like they could exist. Why not?

[T.S. Madison]

It feels like I have a soul. I believe I feel it. So sure, it could, like, wander around.

[John Lovett]

I believe you have a soul. Thank you. Simon, Inspired by your incredible. Inspired by your incredible digs, a shipping container. We have a very special new edition of a classic love it or leave it game we'd like to play. Ashley, this is also inspired by your ability to have an opinion on everything.

[T.S. Madison]

True.

[John Lovett]

Which is why we're gonna play. Would you fuck this house? Ooh, nice. I love this, Simon. Ashley, the game is very simple. I will show you a house. You will have to tell us if you would fuck it. Obviously this is not literal or is. It doesn't matter. All right, here we go. The Biltmore mansion in Asheville, North Carolina.

[Kathleen Turner]

I've been there.

[John Lovett]

We have been there. I. Yeah, I didn't fuck it. It's very regal. It is.

[T.S. Madison]

I'd say. It's really just not my type.

[John Lovett]

I.

[T.S. Madison]

This isn't the kind of person I fuck. I. I don't like. I don't think I've ever dated someone with a good credit score, so. Just feels like it's out of my league.

[John Lovett]

It looks like a racist house. Yeah, that too. There's that too. Yeah. No, it's a no for me. It's a pass. If there was ghosts, they would be there. That's haunted there. Yeah, I do think it's like. Like in the movie. This is, you know, this is who Rose is trying to get away from in Titanic. Yeah. You know, could you have sex with a ghost?

[T.S. Madison]

Okay, so people have said that they have.

[Rob Reiner]

Ooh.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

There's people who have, like, like interviewed and talked about how they had sex with a ghost.

[John Lovett]

Like receive or give receive.

[T.S. Madison]

Usually.

[John Lovett]

Spooky. Yeah. I got to tell you, I think. I think you believe in ghosts. I think you believe in them. I'm just getting the sense that you might believe in them. Next up, we have the Flintstones house in Hillsborough, California. Phallic. Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

Mounds.

[John Lovett]

Feel. Sexual. It looks like some orange breasts. Like an orange worm. Those holes. I kind of love it.

[Kathleen Turner]

The more.

[T.S. Madison]

The longer I look, the more I'm like, you know, like on a first date, you first think, oh, I don't.

[John Lovett]

Know if I like this person.

[T.S. Madison]

And slowly you're like, okay, okay. I could see this.

[John Lovett]

Voluptuous. Childbearing rooms, Right? Yeah, Yeah. I think it's. I think it's space. Like.

[Kathleen Turner]

Yeah, I think it's.

[John Lovett]

I think it's. I think we're. It's like low gravity. Has anyone had sex in outer space yet? Oh, probably it's one of those ghosts. Has anyone had sex in outer space? Not yet.

[T.S. Madison]

Definitely in the International Space Station.

[Thomas Lennon]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

After a year alone. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like. It's like, hey, after this docking, should we do something? I bet those two astronauts who are.

[T.S. Madison]

Stuck up there right now are having sex.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Well, that's interesting. That's interesting. And if you got pregnant, what Would.

[T.S. Madison]

The baby be any different?

[Busy Phillips]

Does time not exist?

[John Lovett]

Timing? Because you're not rotating around the sun? No, no.

[T.S. Madison]

They have more days.

[Kathleen Turner]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Don't you age different in outer space? Yeah. These are really important questions. This is. Take them one at a time. I think you do age differently up there, but not for the reasons you're saying. Would the baby be up? Probably, but not again because of time. The amount of time you go around the sun might be different, but the baby wouldn't know. But it still might be screwed up because there's no gravity up there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Then they also. It stinks up there.

[Thomas Lennon]

Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

Because they also have like. They can't pee normal.

[John Lovett]

They can't pee because there's no gravity.

[T.S. Madison]

So they have to use a suction cup to pee.

[John Lovett]

They're disgusting. They just wipe each. They just wipe. They have wipes. Imagine spending six months up there and all you're doing is going into a thing. Drawing a curtain and wiping your whole body, head to toe.

[T.S. Madison]

I do think that does create a sort of sexual environment. It's like you're seeing me at my worst. Let's just go at each other and.

[John Lovett]

Cool.

[T.S. Madison]

And that's why I would fuck this house.

[John Lovett]

And that's why you fuck that house. And you know, after, after you have.

[T.S. Madison]

Sex up there, you could say, I need some space. Don't go anywhere. This is love it or leave it. And there's more on the way.

[John Lovett]

Love it or leave it is brought to you by Hydro this holiday season. Give the gift of an immersive full body workout. Offering the comfort of your home with the Hydro rower. Hydro combines strength and cardio to give you an amazing full body workout. All in 20 minutes. With the largest library of rowing workouts led by Olympians and world class athletes, Hydro helps you stay motivated and crush your fitness goals. Love the hydro.

[T.S. Madison]

I think I want one.

[John Lovett]

This could be a Christmas present. I'm gonna get a. I'm excited about the hydro. I'm getting a hydro and I'm going to use the out of. I love rowing.

[T.S. Madison]

I like rowing too.

[John Lovett]

It's good. It's a. It's a good. Mix it up. You're, you know, bikes, treadmills. It's only legs. Stairmasters, only legs. But the hydro is full body. It's full body. It's good for the back.

[T.S. Madison]

Okay.

[Busy Phillips]

All right.

[John Lovett]

I think you sold me. Everybody's rowing. I like rowing. I like it better than other workouts. H Y d r o w.com use the code love it to save up to $800 off your Hydro Pro Rower. Hydro Pro Rower. H Y-R-O-W.com, code love it to save up to eight hundred dollars hydro.com code love it. What a weekday is brought to you by Tommy John. For a guy that says he wants the best of everything, your underwear leaves a lot to be desired. Don't skimp on your base layer. Upgrade to Tommy John's second skin underwear and feel true luxury. When you wear Tommy John you're much more comfortable so you can do everything better. Tommy John's stylish and soft second skin underwear has dozens of comfort innovations like a supportive contour pouch which you know what's in the pouch exactly. Plus breathable lightweight moisture wicking fabric with four times the stretch of competing brands. Took me four times to say that with over 20 million pairs sold and thousands of five star reviews. Guys everywhere love their Tommy Johns. Plus your most valuable assets are always covered with Tommy John's. Best pair you'll ever wear or its free guarantee. I'm a huge fan of Tommy John's. I love Tommy John's second skin underwear. I wear it all the time. It's the most comfortable. I've tried all the brands. Tommy John's the best. Get 20% off your first order right now at tommyjohn.com love it. Save 20% on second [e-mail] love it tommyjohn.com Love it. See site for details Love or leave it is brought to you by ExpressVPN. Going online without ExpressVPN is like driving without car insurance. You might be a great driver but with all the crazy people on the road these days, why would you take that risk. Without the right protection, hackers can easily access your online data and steal your personal information, including passwords, credit card details, and more. ExpressVPN protects your data by creating a secure, encrypted tunnel between your device and the Internet. Just open the app and hit one button to protect yourself across all of your devices. I use ExpressVPN. It's great. I can't have people know how many different nightstands I look at before I hit purchase. Absolutely not. All those tabs especially, you know, you're.

[T.S. Madison]

In a hotel room. Who knows what's happening in the hotel room?

[John Lovett]

Who knows what's happening on that WI fi? You don't know who's been there. You know, you're not just using the WI fi, you're using the computer of every person who's used the WI fi. You know, when you think about it.

[Busy Phillips]

That's right.

[John Lovett]

When you think about it, it's nice to use a VPN also. It's just like all these companies. You pay them for Internet and then they basically sell your data to whoever wants it. And it's like, you know what? No.

[T.S. Madison]

No, thank you.

[John Lovett]

No. No. I say no. Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com loveit that's e x P R E S s v p n.com love it. And you can get an extra three months free. ExpressVPN.com love it. Hey, everybody. Love it or leave it has some exciting LA live shows coming up. In 2025, I'll be taking the stage for a new season of the show that dared guests from Danny DeVito to Amy Klobuchar to ask, what is this? And where am I? Each week I'll break down the biggest and dumbest stories in politics to help you keep up with and laugh at the news. And this season, stay tuned for big guests and surprising conversations you won't find anywhere else. Our first very special guest will be Rachel Bloom, followed by Joel McHale. Don't miss out on the wild wired energy of Love it or leave it in real life and all the vaguely cancelable chaos. We have no choice but to cut from the live show. Head to crooked.comevents to see show dates and to grab tickets. We'll see you there. Crooked's Friend of the Pod subscription is offering an exciting 25% off new annual subscriptions through the end of the year if you're feeling anxious. But the avalanche of headlines and new maga comic book villains waiting for us on the other side of the new year, you're not alone. Cricket is here to cut through the noise, break down what matters, and ease your hand off the panic button. And your subscription will support all of what we do here. You'll get ads, free episodes of Pont Save America subscription exclusive shows, access to our lively Discord community of political junkies and more. And all while supporting Crooked's mission in the best way that you can. So please, please, please become a friend of the pod. As we see companies like Disney capitulating to Trump, it is a reminder that corporate media has not and will not save us. So if you feel obliged, we appreciate you supporting independent media like Crooked Media. So please sign up [e-mail] friends or through the Prod Save America feed on Apple Podcasts. We really appreciate it. It's only so often you get to share the stage with a legend. I just hope Jane Fonda enjoyed it. Just kidding. I was like an aunt before the eye of God during our very special show at the Bourbon Room in Los Angeles this September. Let's get. Well, not physical. Let's get audible. Hi, Jane.

[Thomas Lennon]

Hi.

[John Lovett]

So nice to see you.

[Thomas Lennon]

Nice to see you, too. What's the matter?

[John Lovett]

No, I'm just. I've lost already. It's over.

[Thomas Lennon]

Listen, who is seeing this show? Is this it?

[John Lovett]

I mean, you mean live?

[Kathleen Turner]

Live?

[John Lovett]

This is it.

[Thomas Lennon]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

But then a bunch of people will see it on YouTube and a bunch of people will listen to it as a podcast.

[Thomas Lennon]

Really?

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Okay.

[Thomas Lennon]

I came on here, I thought you were a different John Lovett. I didn't. And I'm very pleasantly surprised. But I don't know why I'm here. I really don't. I asked my publicist, why am I here? I mean.

[John Lovett]

No, and your confusion. Yeah, totally understandable. And again, like, you wouldn't know based on this or this, that people listen. Isn't that surprising, by my whole personality that people tune into this?

[Thomas Lennon]

You're very funny. Oh, yeah, no, I'm actually. I'm feeling good because I, you know, at my age, I really. I could understand your humor a little bit. I mean, I. I understand why people laughed. I was worried because, you know, I can. You can kind of be out of it.

[John Lovett]

I don't. You were worried that you were out of it?

[Thomas Lennon]

Yeah, I was worried that I wouldn't think you're funny, and then I wouldn't really know why I was here. But you are funny.

[John Lovett]

Well, now you've been an activist and for such a long time. Now can we show the image of the 1970 mugshot? Because I feel like you should teach a course on how to look cool in a mug shot. I mean that.

[Thomas Lennon]

You guys must be really short on money. I don't think too many people must listen to this show. You have no money. You show a small TV show.

[John Lovett]

No, no. You may be saying, why not put it on the big screen? Screen behind you.

[Thomas Lennon]

Shows usually have a big screen. It ain't the View, that's for sure.

[John Lovett]

I want you to know that people sweat and blood and tears, I believe, went into trying to get that image on this screen, and it didn't work. But even with AI and all the technological wonders, even with billionaires soaring above our heads as we see Speak. No, not tonight. Couldn't work. And maybe that's.

[Thomas Lennon]

Well, it is a good mug shot.

[John Lovett]

It is a good mug shot.

[Thomas Lennon]

The lighting was really good.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Thomas Lennon]

I have several, and they don't all look that good, but.

[John Lovett]

You. So, speaking of which, you told the Washington Post that one of your jailers said there must be a better way to draw attention to your cause, but is there? It feels like it works. You getting arrested, it's a big deal. When Jane Fonda gets arrested, everyone's like, holy shit, they arrested Jane Fonda again.

[Thomas Lennon]

Yeah, that's why. I knew it.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, I turned.

[Thomas Lennon]

I. No, it's true. I mean, it's called nonviolent civil disobedience. And it has changed history throughout history. That said, you know, I'm white. I'm famous. They don't treat me like they do black people and brown people, and I recognize that. I don't want to make it look like it's some brave thing to be arrested. It's not. You usually, you get put in a holding pen with a lot of people that you wanted to talk to anyway, so. And I could do wall squats.

[John Lovett]

Oh.

[Thomas Lennon]

You probably don't know what that is.

[John Lovett]

I know what a wall squat is, Jane. I do know what a wall squat, Jane. I've been doing Pilates.

[Thomas Lennon]

Really? But I have no idea what's going on.

[John Lovett]

I really don't.

[Kathleen Turner]

I'm just.

[Thomas Lennon]

But I turned 82 in jail, and I knew that would get a lot of. It was like five or six years ago, and I knew it would get a lot of attention, and it did. And so a lot of other old women around the country said, well, if she can do it. And people came from all over the country. It was so great. And got arrested for the first time. And it was fun, you see. We had a good time. I don't know. Is there A camera that is photographing anything here?

[John Lovett]

Yes, there's actually several. It's a real production. It's a real. They're professionals. You can't see them. They're dark because of the lighting. There's professionals in virtually everyday room.

[Thomas Lennon]

I came in here and walked a half a mile straight upstairs.

[John Lovett]

Tonight you're about to match wits with Crooked's residential film expert and dweeb. An Emmy nominee this weekend for his writing on the 2024 Academy Awards, please welcome. Keep its own, Louis Vertell. There he is. Lewis, come on. Good to see you, buddy.

[Kathleen Turner]

Lewis.

[T.S. Madison]

We were on Millionaire together. Yeah, we were, yes.

[Thomas Lennon]

I can never beat him.

[T.S. Madison]

She should be afraid. That's the way it works. Yeah.

[Thomas Lennon]

No, he knows everything.

[John Lovett]

I know, I know. He's a savant.

[T.S. Madison]

When we were on who Wants to be a Millionaire together, this is how crazy it is to know this person. We kept getting questions on accident that dovetailed with her life. We got a question about a 100-year-old tortoise she had met before and he was like impotent or something.

[Thomas Lennon]

It's real. No, I watched him be masculine, masturbated.

[John Lovett]

That's no way to speak about Rupert Murdoch.

[Thomas Lennon]

Who is Lonesome George was his name.

[John Lovett]

Lonesome George.

[Kathleen Turner]

Very famous.

[John Lovett]

Very famous. Lonesome George.

[Thomas Lennon]

They brought a Swedish course, a Swedish woman vet over to the Galapagos. They wanted to try to breed him so that the. You know. And it didn't work.

[John Lovett]

Didn't work.

[Thomas Lennon]

No.

[T.S. Madison]

I just want to say, as a trivia person, aren't you all fucking in awe of her amazing memory? Jesus Christ, you know everything.

[Thomas Lennon]

No, you know that's true.

[T.S. Madison]

I do too.

[Thomas Lennon]

Yes. You're going to win this.

[T.S. Madison]

Let's go.

[John Lovett]

So here's how it works. Now, Louis is a low key madman, right? So we thought we would up the difficulty and pit him against Jane Fonda in a segment we're calling into the Fondaverse.

[T.S. Madison]

What a place to be.

[John Lovett]

I will ask both of you questions about Jane Fonda and we will see who knows Jane Fonda better. First question. What is the film Jane Fonda most regrets turning down?

[T.S. Madison]

Ooh. Oh, I know. I think Bonnie and Clyde.

[John Lovett]

Incorrect.

[T.S. Madison]

She has said Bonnie and Clyde before. I can find the interview right now.

[Rob Reiner]

What was it?

[Thomas Lennon]

It was Julie Christie and Omar Sharif. What was that movie?

[T.S. Madison]

Oh, dear. Chicago.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that's correct.

[Kathleen Turner]

Jane.

[T.S. Madison]

Okay. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

At least that's what you told Ellen. Jane Fonda received the title role in the 1965 comedy Western Cat Ballou, considered by many to be her breakout star turn after the first choice actress passed. Later it was revealed that the actress's manager had declined the role without consulting her. And if she had known, she would have taken it. Who is that actress?

[Thomas Lennon]

Who is the actress that was originally offered Cat Ballou?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

Oh, that's a good. Well, I know that her first three Oscar nominations. Barbra Streisand turned it down all three times, which is so crazy.

[Thomas Lennon]

According to Barbara.

[T.S. Madison]

Right? I believe you.

[Thomas Lennon]

According to Barbara, I would have no career if it weren't for her. She turned down Barbarella. She turned down Clute.

[T.S. Madison]

They shoot horses, don't they?

[Thomas Lennon]

What?

[T.S. Madison]

They shoot horses, don't they?

[Thomas Lennon]

They shoot horses, don't they? And Julia. And Julia. I mean, can you see her?

[T.S. Madison]

No. I know. It's all right. So that's not the answer for that question. I'm going to go with 1965 Cat Ballou. I assume she was already popular at the time.

[Thomas Lennon]

Elizabeth Ashley.

[T.S. Madison]

Great guess.

[John Lovett]

Correct answer is Ann Margaret. Ann Margaret.

[T.S. Madison]

There was a phase when you and Ann Margaret had the exact same hair. I'm not kidding. It was confusing.

[Thomas Lennon]

Thank you. She would have been good in Katbaloo.

[T.S. Madison]

Yeah, absolutely.

[John Lovett]

Yes.

[Thomas Lennon]

I'm glad she turned it down.

[T.S. Madison]

Oh, wait, quickly story. Can I tell you one really quickly?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[T.S. Madison]

One time this guy came over to hook up. Like it was like a grinder hookup. And at the time, I had this awesome poster of Jane Fonda in my house. And the guy was not super verbal, like he was drunk or something. And he comes in, says nothing, sees the poster of Jane and goes, kapaloo. And that was the beginning of a friendship. And he's a big movie person. Anyway, we had sex. Thank you. Thank you.

[John Lovett]

Final question. Which of the following is not a real quote from one Jane Fonda?

[T.S. Madison]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

Ooh. A, what does Jane Fonda eat for breakfast? My boyfriend. Well, toasted, buttered on both sides. B, I ate a beetle. C, my 82 year old bones hurt. Or D, you can grease him up or down.

[T.S. Madison]

I believe she said the first one about eating the boyfriend four.

[John Lovett]

That's correct.

[T.S. Madison]

No, you didn't say that.

[John Lovett]

No, you did.

[T.S. Madison]

That's what I mean. I absolutely can hear it in your voice.

[John Lovett]

You said I would never. Apparently you did.

[Thomas Lennon]

I'm not a morning person.

[John Lovett]

Hey.

[Thomas Lennon]

Oh, God.

[John Lovett]

Louis, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you've been absolutely obliterated.

[T.S. Madison]

I.

[John Lovett]

You jammed in front of all my friends. And what do you think about Louis bonding with a would be paramour? About a poster of you?

[Thomas Lennon]

I love it. Okay, listen, in your life, if you can get one person screwed.

[John Lovett]

It'S worth it.

[Thomas Lennon]

You've done something good.

[John Lovett]

They say grief is nonlinear. For me, my post election grief has followed a loose trajectory similar to one taken by a rocket powered riverboat driven by a demonic Steamboat Willie. Also, the toilets are all out of order. Listen in. As I attempt to, in real time make sense of a second Trump administration. In this, our post election show, it has landed on depression. I just start crying. It's like that easy. I had a very dark moment earlier today, which was that I actually had a moment where I was really kind of mourning the good that we're not going to get. I had this moment where I just indulged in thinking about the delta between the world as we were fighting for and the world that we're going to get. And I realized I had this moment where I just thought, I don't know how bad things will get, but no matter who you are, no matter what you have, the next four years will be worse. We've just signed on for being a bit sadder and more anxious and upset about politics, and there's no changing that now. We can ignore it for a time and do self care and tend to our feelings and step away when we have to, and we should step away when we have to. And I'm not going to indulge in this all the time, but that was a feeling I had, which is just the next couple years are just gonna be bad. What's the next stage? Is this a good idea? Bargaining? Maybe it won't be so bad. Okay, listen, okay, all right, all right. Hear me out, hear me out, hear me out. Maybe it won't be so bad, okay? Donald Trump at root wants to be loved. He didn't get enough love as a child. He's never had therapy. He's a broken fucking person. He's very transactional people. He loves people who love him, he hates people who hate him. He hurts people who hurt him or don't love him or admire him, and he tries to help the people who serve him. He's transactional. And, you know, so much of the first four years of Trump was about this kind of like this fundamental grievance that here he was, this fucking guy that always ever wanted is the respect and admiration of the elites. Why he calls Maggie Haberman every fucking day and then bashes her on social media, right? And he couldn't have it. Why? Because we called him illegitimate. Because he didn't win the popular vote because of all the interference that went into his winning. The fact that we put an asterisk there because of Comey and all the bullshit and the misogyny and all the rest. And he just, it made him a little bit fucking crazy. Now, I don't think it takes much to make Donald Trump crazy. I think he's crazy out of the packaging. But still, he won a popular vote. He did, he did. And I can't even convince myself of this. Yeah, that's the bargaining. That was bargaining. How do I end that? Come on. Anger. All right. I'm so mad. I'm so mad. Tuesday, I was shocked. Wednesday I was sad. Today I am fucking furious. And I think we all. I think this is a challenge. Watch me be part of the pontificating and priggish Democratic elite that Bret Stephens hates while using stories about jazz era chess masters. Look in the mirror, Belle. There's a series of essays that F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote called the Crack up and I love it. And it's dated in all the ways it's dated. Caveats there. Done. But it's really interesting, right, because this is a person who is clearly struggling with mental illness, depression, addiction, but they don't have the words for it. And in it he talks about the kinds of things he would write down on his list. And one of them were the times he was snubbed by those who were not his better in character or ability. And I think about that all the time because I do think it's something we all think about, right? The time when we're like, like, I mean, honestly, that's dating in Los Angeles. But also in that essay, he says a line which is, I think, relatively famous from the essay, which is the test of a first rate intelligence, is keeping two contradictory eyes in the mind at the same time and still retaining the ability to function. Something like that. And I do think we have to keep two ideas in our mind at the same time, which is, I think we shouldn't be in denial. We should face. We made our case to the country and Donald Trump won this election. They had questions about his character. They had concerns about him as a human being. They do not like him. But a lot of people that do not like him voted for him anyway. That Ron Brownstein wrote a great piece today that they chose the uncertainty of a different future from the unacceptability of the present. I'm paraphrasing, but some version of that, that is true and we should be honest about that. That happened, right? That speaks to something about our inability to reach people that speaks to a disdain for the identity, the brand of the Democratic Party that is real. We need to be honest about that. We need to figure that. At the same time, I think it is also okay to feel and think, well, wait a second here. Joe Biden did what we asked him to do. Domestically, I think there's valid criticism both on policy and politics around Gaza and Israel. But domestically, Joe Biden for four years did what we asked him to do. He came in, he built consensus, and he governed as well as anyone could have under the circumstances in a pandemic, in an economic calamity. He passed the rescue plan, he passed the inflation Reduction Act. Someone who was always at the very dead center or center right of the Democratic Party in his old age, was curious enough and open enough to listen and bring everybody in. And he governed in a progressive way. He did what we asked him to do and he delivered. And that didn't matter. Why? Why? Right. It's not enough to just say, well, people were upset about inflation. Donald Trump's policies will be worse if your biggest issue is inflation. And so people voted based on this issue in a way that is ultimately, I think, counter to what they are hoping to get out of it. And so I feel like I have these two competing ideas in my head right now, one of which is, what do we do? All right. To answer for the fact that the American people collectively said we are choosing Donald Trump over what you're offering, while at the same time believing in my bones that if they had the right information, if we had the ability to reach people and get them the information in a way that helped them understand the stakes and the actual choice in this election, we would have won. And. Yeah. And was this about anger? Yes. And also Joe Biden. I can't tell what I'm madder about with Joe Biden, to be honest. Am I more mad about his decision to seek reelection in the year and a half leading up to the debate, or am I more angry about the month after the debate that he dithered and prevented us from either having a competitive primary or have given Kamala Harris enough time to actually mount an effective campaign? I can't decide which is making me more angry right now. But I don't have to choose. What are the other ones? Oh, I'm not doing acceptance. I'm not doing it. We'll be right back. And with that, our journey through ChatGPT's favorite moments from 2024's Love it or Leave it has come to an end. In conclusion, we crushed it. I'd like to dedicate this best of episode to Maggie Smith, Peanut the Squirrel, and maybe Jimmy Carter by the time this comes out. May their memories be a blessing from all of us here at Love it or Leave It. Thank you for spending this 10 out of 10 absolutely flawless year with us and have a very happy holidays. Take a break, take some time from politics and the news and we will see you sluts in 2025. Love it or Leave it is a crooked media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our Executive producer, Chris Lord is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our Associate Producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer, Sarah Lazarus and Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, Will Miles and Mohana Del Shiki are our writers. Evan Sutton is our editor, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer and Milo Kim is our videographer. Our theme song is written and performed by Shure Shure. Thanks to our designer Bernardo Serna for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And to our digital producers David Toles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman and Matt de Groat for filming and editing video video each week so you can.

[T.S. Madison]

Building a business may feel like a big jump.

[Kathleen Turner]

But on deck small business loans can.

[Busy Phillips]

Help keep you afloat.

[T.S. Madison]

With lines of credit up to $100,000.

[Kathleen Turner]

And term loans up to 250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business.

[T.S. Madison]

As a top rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtibank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota, all loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Gifting is hard, but here's a Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means? Here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and.

[John Lovett]

Get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular. Your family wants new phones?

[T.S. Madison]

How do we know? They told us. The good news is that compared to wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints. So take the hint and get them four free phones and for $90 a month. US Cellular built for us.