← Lovett or Leave It
Lovett or Leave It
Lovett or Leavitt
01:23:08
Here we are, one thousand years into Trump’s second term, with a brand new Lovett or Leave It! This week, Bernie refuses to baby RFK Jr. and the federal funding freeze sends everyone into a meltdown. Director Kevin Smith stops by to take us down Memory Lane which runs straight through Hollywood. And at long last Lovett sees Emilia Perez and reveals the truth about this film and the French writ large. Week two down. Upcoming shows: crooked.com/events
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- [00:00]
John Lovett
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- [03:09]
Kevin Smith
But you've never been deported before, Dr. Phil.
- [03:13]
John Lovett
Yeah. How do you know me? No, I seen Dr. Phil. How do you know me? I saw you on Dr. Phil. On Monday, Trump gave a speech to the House Republican Conference saying this about the deportations.
- [03:29]
Kevin Smith
300 people sitting in a plane, every one of them either a murderer, a drug lord, a kingpin of some kind ahead of the mob or a gang member. And you're flying that plane. It's not going to end well. You ever see the movie Conair?
- [03:45]
John Lovett
That's what.
- [03:46]
Kevin Smith
Yeah, except here's the difference. The people in Con Air were actors.
- [03:50]
John Lovett
Look, it's not important, but we've got years to talk about what's important. The moral of Con Air is not that Con Air was a good way to transport the criminals. Con Air didn't work. Like, sure, Steve Buscemi didn't murder that little girl, but other than that, the whole thing went pretty much tits up. Con Air, the inspiring story about how transporting prisoners by plane is a good idea. On Monday, Trump signed an executive order shutting down the military's DEI programs and reinstated service members who were discharged after refusing the COVID 19 vaccine with back pay. Just so we understand where we're at here, Trump's position has always been COVID 19 was created in a lab as a biological weapon to be used in war, and America's military should be as vulnerable as possible to it. He also issued an order banning transgender people from military service, which is huge for Trump. He's just invented an exciting new way to dodge the draft. People often forget this, but the trans ban is why the A team went AWOL after Mrs. T made that big life change. We debated people. If people would know the A team. Enough of you did. And then on Tuesday, Trump announced an executive order to make it harder for doctors and parents to provide gender affirming care to trans kids, including teenagers as old as 18. Look, this is obviously awful. This is the government getting between parents and children, between doctors and their patients. It is a group of right wing ideologues imposing their fears and hatreds on all of us. And worst of all, this may stop young people from accessing gender affirming care that will help them become the best and truest versions of themselves, while doing nothing to stop those very same young people from choosing new weird names like Canopy or Bayou. Everybody loses. Meanwhile, in a vaguely worded memo on Monday, the Office of Management and Budget ordered an abrupt pause on all federal grants and loans, causing widespread confusion with hospitals, schools and other organizations that depend on federal payments, unsure if they'd be able to provide basic services. Oh, what? So now the White House budget office can't get loose and try stuff out? Creativity's illegal. Hey hospitals, try a little more. Yes, and and a little less. We need insulin is jazz and the panic only increased when the Medicaid portal where states access federal funding stopped working. On Tuesday, Trump's new press secretary, Caroline Levitt, said in an X post the White House is aware of the Medicaid website portal outage. We have confirmed no payments have been affected. They are still being processed and sent. We expect the portal will be back online shortly. And let's just stop and review in case anyone is confused. Caroline Levitt is the terrible press secretary, Jonathan Lovett is the podcaster who's weirdly looking younger lately. Democrats pointed out that the freeze is unconstitutional. It's up to Congress to appropriate federal funds and up to the executive to spend those funds as Congress has directed. That money is our tax dollars. It's already been allotted. If we wanted to fund a study of whether mice can drive tiny Subarus, that's where the money should fucking go. And don't worry, I've been in touch with the Stuart Little Institute and so far they've been unaffected. The OMB subsequently issued a new memo telling federal officials that the pause was only meant to apply to programs specified in Trump's executive orders, including that took aim at foreign aid, climate spending and DEI programs. The initial memo as written, went much further. So did they do a bad job writing memos, or did they try to get away with something insane and underestimate the backlash either way? Sure wish Kamala had a better answer on the View that time. A federal judge in D.C. temporarily blocked the order on Tuesday, before it was set to go into effect, siding with the activist group Democracy Forward. And then on Wednesday, the Washington Post broke the news. Trump's Office of Management and Budget rescinded the order to freeze federal funding. Or did it? White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt threw America back into uncertainty, Writing on Twitter, this is not a rescission of the federal funding freeze. It is simply a rescission of the OMB memo. What does it mean? Your guess is as good as mine. I liked the government two weeks ago. The president at that time was also incomprehensible, but in a way that was much less terrifying day to day. Also this week, the Trump administration sent a memo to every single federal worker, all 2 million of them, offering them an option to resign now and continue being paid through September. The subject line of the that buyout offer email was fork in the road, the same line that Elon Musk titled his email to Twitter employees in 2022 when he told them to commit to extremely hardcore work or leave the company. More like dork in the road. Do you think we're all dead? What if we're all dead? And where were the Democrats during all of this? You ask why they were leaping into action? Here's Chuck Schumer. People are aroused. I haven't seen people so aroused in a very, very long time. You know, earlier this week I said Democrats should stop wasting time workshopping their perfect message and just get out there and speak from the heart. Today I feel like maybe a little more workshopping. So I stand erected, corrected. Bernie Sanders said of the freeze. If President Trump wants to change our nation's laws, he has the right to ask Congress to change them. He does not have the right to violate the United States Constitution. He is not a king. Not a king. I don't know. Multiple wives, one of whom is buried in the backyard casting off advisors the second they cross him. Symptoms of syphilis in the brain. None of us would be surprised to learn he had gout. There's a lot of red meat in that diet. And on some level, on some level, we all know that if he started wearing a crown, a lot of people would be completely into it. Late Wednesday, an Army helicopter carrying three US Service members collided midair with an American airlines flight carrying 64 people near Ronald Reagan National Airport. Both aircraft crashed into the icy Potomac river, said a spokesperson for Boeing. Not ours. With literally nothing known about the cause of the accident, President Trump held a press conference on Thursday to blame, you guessed it, dei.
- [09:50]
Kevin Smith
We have a high standard. We've had a much higher standard than anybody else. And there are things where you have to go by brain power. You have to go by psychological quality, and psychological quality is a very important element of it. These are various very powerful tests that we put to use, and they were Terminated by Biden. And Biden went by a standard that's the exact opposite.
- [10:14]
John Lovett
Di is starting fires in California. It's crashing planes in D.C. pace yourself, Di. It's only January. You're gonna burn out. When asked whether he was getting ahead of the investigation, Trump shot on the reporter who asked the question. You even yet know the names of.
- [10:28]
Kennedy
The 67 people who were killed, and.
- [10:30]
John Lovett
You are blaming Democrats and DEI policies.
- [10:33]
Kennedy
And air traffic control and seemingly the member of the US Military who was.
- [10:37]
Kevin Smith
Flying that Black Hawk helicopter.
- [10:38]
Kennedy
Don't you think you're getting ahead of the investigation right now?
- [10:40]
John Lovett
No, I don't think so.
- [10:41]
Kevin Smith
At they are a group of people that have lost it. I think that's not a very smart question.
- [10:47]
John Lovett
Yeah, use your critical thinking skills. It wasn't a White Hawk helicopter. Hey, how's everybody doing? Everybody hanging in there? Bill's in the aisle with a bottle of gin, and Kennedy's on the other side with a fistful Vativan. Just raise your hand and one of them will find you, or both of them if you're nasty. Whatever you need, but rest easy. Trump's new Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, is on the case. Obviously, it is not standard to have aircraft collide. I want to be clear on that. I'm glad he pivoted away from his earlier message of I think they're supposed to do that. Last week, Trump dismissed everyone on the Aviation Security Advisory Committee. Air traffic controllers were also affected by Trump's federal hiring freeze. What Trump is doing is sort of like what surgeons do. They take out all of the organs, then put them back in one by one until the patient is fine. That way, everyone can be certain that all the leftover organs were a waste of taxpayer money. Of course, there's no evidence so far that Trump's freeze or dismissals had any role in the crash, but maybe we just say they did. Should we try it? I don't know. You see a plane crash on the news, the President blames diversity. And a former Real World star as Transportation Secretary explaining that planes are not supposed to do that. Maybe we just try it. Nah, it's not us. It's never been us. That's the shame of. Could be. You want it to be us. You want to just do it? You want to get there? I don't know. I don't know. No. Now, you see, there's that little flicker. There's that social studies student. There are my perfect, sweet little front row angels. You know it. You know you want it. You feel that pull. You feel the devil on your shoulder, like, let's do what they do. Can we do what they do? But here's the problem. Here's the problem. We can't do what they do. We can't pull it off because we have shame. We do. And it's really. It sucks. It sucks. But we're gonna, we're gonna just. We're fighting with one hand behind our backs. That's just how it goes. We're getting the absolute, ever loving shit beat out of us. And, well, that's it. That's it. And it's like, what do we do? What do we do? You get fucking, fucking housed. Truth is, this is the first commercial crash to result in fatalities in the United States since 2009. Flying is incredibly safe, and it is incredibly safe because of the federal government. Trump's changes, in all likelihood didn't cause this, but his attack on our government is going to lead to a world where crashes like this are more commonplace. Bullying people out of their jobs, undermining these agencies. He feels unconstrained in doing this because Americans take for granted the safety and reliability that aren't a given, but instead are the result of decades of hard, painstaking work to build inspection regimes and safety measures and, yes, bureaucracies that can be annoying and slow, but also made it so. Our biggest worry when we fly is whether that guy with the rotisserie chicken is sitting next to you. And he is, and it's me. You know, it's interesting. If Joe Biden had narrowly lost, there wouldn't have been an insurrection and Donald Trump wouldn't have been radicalized against democracy, and he wouldn't have had the time to put in place the plans he's now implementing so thoroughly. And we'd right now be saying goodbye to him as he was tarred with all the damage that came from inflation that he would have had no ability to stop. No use thinking about that. On Tuesday, Caroline Kennedy, daughter of jfk, heard of him, sent a letter to the Senate tearing APART her cousin RFK Jr. Ahead of his Senate confirmation hearing. Here she is reading from that letter. I've known Bobby my whole life.
- [14:41]
Kennedy
We grew up together.
- [14:43]
Kevin Smith
It's no surprise that he keeps birds.
- [14:45]
Kennedy
Of prey as pets, because Bobby himself is a predator.
- [14:50]
John Lovett
By the same token, it's no surprise that I keep a goldendoodle as a pet because I myself am a fussy, barfy princess. Imagine you're in the middle of a job interview for a new job you're excited about, and your cousin, your first cousin, barges in and says, you used to do terrible things to animals. Now imagine. Now imagine the interviewers are like, we're on the fence anyway. Nobody takes down a Kennedy better than a Kennedy or the CIA. Caroline also described RFK Jr. S bizarre behavior while dealing with addiction, writing he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in the blender to feed his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. Oh, sure, y'all hate putting baby chickens and mice in the blender now, but every single one of you will pay $20 for it. When Erewhon calls it a smoothie, try the new RFK junior Smoothie at Erewhon. It's got sea moss in it. Blended bird. Y'all fell for bone broth, which is a $7 upcharge on what broth? Fucking idiots. She also pointed out that Kennedy has kept a financial stake in litigation against manufacturers of the HPV vaccine despite being Trump's nominee to head the Department of Health and Human Services, wrote Caroline. In other words, he is willing to enrich himself by denying access to a vaccine that can prevent almost all forms of cervical cancer and which has been safely administered to millions of boys and girls. RFK Jr cheated on his second wife 37 times, but it just wasn't spreading HPV fast enough. You got to work smarter, not harder, people. But don't worry. Kennedy's confirmation hearing got off to a reassuring start. President Trump has asked me to study.
- [16:49]
Kevin Smith
The safety of mifepristone. He has not yet taken a stand.
- [16:55]
John Lovett
On how to regulate it. Whatever he does, I will implement those policies, continued Kennedy. If you want an abortion, you can do it the old fashioned way by having your children and then not vaccinating them. Here's Senator Bernie Sanders pointing out the anti vax merch available from the organization Kennedy founded, the Children's Defense Fund. The products included baby clothes that said unvaxxed, unbothered, and no vax. No problem. Here's what Sanders said.
- [17:22]
Kevin Smith
Are you supportive of this?
- [17:24]
John Lovett
I've had nothing to do with this. Are you supportive of these onesies exposed by your own merch? Couldn't be me. I stand 100% behind everything in the crooked store seems to be wearing a shirt that says Kamala has this in the bag and you can quote me on that. I also would just like everybody to know that we considered an alternative T shirt that said I heart Ezra Miller. I think either would have worked. And then on Thursday, as the Kennedy hearing continued in the help committee, Trump's pick for FBI cash Patel appeared before the Judiciary Committee. Let's check in on how that went. Your boss said that Gen. Milley, who served us with great distinction, I happen to have great admiration for, should be tried for treason.
- [18:11]
Kevin Smith
Do you agree with that, Senator?
- [18:13]
John Lovett
Everybody's entitled to their opinion. Is the dress blue and black or white and gold? Should we hang generals in the ellipse for displeasing the leader? Do you hear Brainstorm a green needle. In other chest clenching news, following Trump's announcement of $500 billion investments in AI, OpenAI founder Sam Altman raised some red flags by saying AI might require changes to the social contract. So what are we talking about? Talking about no pants? Maybe we're talking about no pants. Let's see him try and explain it. I still expect, although I don't know what, and this is over a long period of time.
- [18:51]
Kevin Smith
This is not like next year or.
- [18:53]
John Lovett
The year after that kind of thing.
- [18:55]
Kevin Smith
But over a long period of time.
- [18:56]
John Lovett
I still expect that there will be some change required to the social contract.
- [19:03]
Kevin Smith
Given how powerful we expect this technology to be.
- [19:06]
John Lovett
Talking about changing the social contract as we put more and more power in the hands of a single unaccountable leader. Thomas Hobbes must be rolling over in his grave to give us two thumbs up. As for AI's effect on job creation, Altman said this. I'm not a believer that there won't be any jobs.
- [19:23]
Kevin Smith
I think we always find new things to do.
- [19:24]
John Lovett
But I do think like the whole structure of society itself will be up for some degree of debate and reconfiguration. Okay, cool. Thanks for the heads up. Please keep us posted. Then. This week, The Chinese company DeepSeek introduced its artificial intelligence, which experts say creates models nearly as good as Those created by OpenAI, but much cheaper. And yet they chose to call it deep seq when ChatGPT was right there. Now OpenAI is accusing deep Seq of using their models to train Deep seq AI, which OpenAI says is a violation of their terms of service. Deepseek use someone else's work to inform and develop their own. Who would do such a thing? The Vatican released a document warning that AI will gradually undermine the foundations of society by destabilizing our connection to objective reality, which is our job, said the Pope. So quit it, you frogga cheetos. I don't remember. I don't remember what the word was, but in my mind it's frog a chinos. Remember that? Remember that when the good Pope talked about froguccinos talking about fags. Now you remember. But don't worry, it's not all bad. In dromedary news, camel milk might be the next big alternative to cow's milk, according to People magazine. Not sure why, but it is, according to them, as it's easier to access in parts of the world where cattle farming is impractical. I know what you're thinking. Camel milk. But it's actually very simple. You just soak the camel in water overnight, you grind it into a fine paste, and then you strain it through a cheesecloth. Fresh, delicious camel milk. All right, now, listen. Tonight, jokes aside, we're going to do a taste test. Our producers are bringing out a glass of regular, whole cow's milk and a glass of camel's milk. Kendra, Everybody, I need. Now, I know you're thinking camel's milk. Where could you get that? You know where you can get it? In Los Angeles at, like, four weird stores. And here's the thing about finding camel's milk. There's only two answers. When you call a grocery store to ask if they have camel milk, of course, and. Are you insane? We'd like one volunteer for a blind taste test to see which one you actually prefer. We'll also hope you can guess which one is the camel's milk. And I will say you will have to sign a milk waiver. Would somebody like to volunteer and test the milk? Well, we have a volunteer right here in the front row. Come on up. Hi. What's your name? Lori. Lori. Okay, we have. I know which one is which.
- [22:06]
Kennedy
Okay.
- [22:06]
John Lovett
All right. One of these is the cow's milk, and one of them is the camel's milk. All right. Why don't you taste one and see what you think? Okay. Any reaction to the first one before we get to the second sip?
- [22:15]
Kevin Smith
No?
- [22:15]
John Lovett
Okay, what do you think? Which one do you think is the cow's milk? Which one do you think is the camel's milk?
- [22:22]
Kevin Smith
They're so similar.
- [22:23]
John Lovett
Interesting. Interesting.
- [22:25]
Kennedy
Can I do it again?
- [22:26]
John Lovett
Yeah, sure.
- [22:26]
Kevin Smith
Okay.
- [22:29]
Kennedy
You're sure they're different?
- [22:31]
John Lovett
One of them is camel's milk, and one of them is cow's milk. They're both camel's milk. They are. No, they're both cow's milk. Get out of here. Great job. And finally, the Blue Man Group has ended. After 34 years of performing in New York, two members of the trio were released into the Hudson Valley. Sadly, after biting Bernadette Peters outside Balthazar, the third was humanely euthanized. And that is a lie. He begged for his life. Or at least that's what we think he was doing by banging on those pots and pans. Up next, he let the dog mount. It's Kevin Smith.
- [23:17]
Kevin Smith
Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.
- [23:22]
John Lovett
Love it or Leave it is brought to you by policygenius. How do you plan for the new year? Is your favorite time to start fresh, John? Yeah, it is. Do you prioritize getting your finances order after the holidays? No. How has your approach changed through the years?
- [23:38]
Kevin Smith
My approach to what?
- [23:41]
John Lovett
Your plan. How's your. I don't know, for a fight?
- [23:44]
Kevin Smith
Croak?
- [23:44]
John Lovett
Is that what you're talking about here? Yeah. This is life insurance. You go up or you go down. Follows easy. Swimming with the fishes. Makes finding and buying life insurance simple. You know, I actually, for the first time was doing my own planning for the event of my unfortunate and untimely demise. And I. I hated it. But you have to do it. But it's not that fun. You have to do it.
- [24:08]
Kevin Smith
It's not a fun thing.
- [24:09]
John Lovett
But you know what? Policy Genius makes it a lot easier. They make it so much easier. You can find life insurance policies that start at just $292 per year for $1 million of coverage. Some options are 100% online and let you avoid unnecessary medical exams. I had to decide where Puntit goes. You know, someone's gotta take Puntit.
- [24:24]
Kevin Smith
Stay tuned to find out to the end of the episode.
- [24:26]
John Lovett
Policygenius compares quotes from America's top insurers side by side for free with no hidden fees. Their licensed support team can help you get what you need fast so you can get on with your life. They answer questions, handle paperwork, and advocate for you throughout the process. Even if you have life insurance through work, it may not protect all of your family's needs or follow you if you leave the job. Join thousands of happy Policy Genius customers who left five star reviews on Google and trustpilot. Secure your families tomorrow so you have peace of mind today. Head to policygenius.com loveit or click the link in the description to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com lovett hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders. I'm poet Saeed Jones. And I'm producer Zach Stafford. And we are the hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check. On Vibe Check, we talk about everything. News, culture and entertainment and how it all feels. That's right, we talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. Yes, indeed. And it doesn't stop there.
- [25:25]
Kevin Smith
We have got a lot to say.
- [25:27]
John Lovett
So join our group, chat come to life, follow and listen to vibe check wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Please welcome to the stage. He stole my original podcast title, Beardless Dickless Me. It's Kevin Smith. Hi, thanks for being here. Come on out. It's Kevin Smith, everybody.
- [26:00]
Kevin Smith
Hi.
- [26:01]
John Lovett
How you doing?
- [26:02]
Kevin Smith
I'm fucking good. I was enjoying. Oh, Dogma figures. I was enjoying the show from backstage. I have this moment on the way over. Like every once in a while, the universe reminds you, like, where you are and what you are doing and like, to let go of stupid shit and whatnot. So I was driving over, there was a lot of traffic. And so I got off the freeway, I jumped on to Hollywood. But then, you know, I got to get down to Sunset, Make a. Gotta.
- [26:26]
John Lovett
Get down to Sunset.
- [26:27]
Kevin Smith
Got to get down there. So there's a pile up of cars getting to Western, where I'm like, fuck, I'll turn it Western. And I couldn't. For those who are, you know, not from around here, like 7 6:30 to 7:30, you can't move.
- [26:42]
John Lovett
Traffic wise, it probably is similar to like downtown Albuquerque.
- [26:46]
Kevin Smith
Yes.
- [26:46]
John Lovett
Just for a basic comparison, 100.
- [26:49]
Kevin Smith
So I. I saw up ahead someone who was standing in the thoroughfare. We got a green light, but nobody can progress because there's a person who's like dancing, swaying in the intersection. And like, I'm never somebody to judge, like, anybody particularly. Like, I went on a mental health journey two years ago. I was in a booby hatch and stuff. So I would never be like, that guy's fucking crazy. So I don't think he was crazy, but let's just say safe to say he was set adrift in memory bliss of meth. So he's up there holding up traffic for two fucking lights, John. And I'm like, oh my God. Like, I'm glad you're feeling it, but I gotta go to a show. I'm gonna be late and shit. And so I start getting impatient and I start just getting like, fucking, God damn it, man. Like, handle your fucking high. You know what I'm saying? Like, I got nothing against getting high, but like, fucking like shit like this, people like this. I get right up to Western, about to make the turn. The dude's still in the intersection and whatnot. He's wearing a hoodie, has my face on it.
- [27:54]
John Lovett
That's gone.
- [27:55]
Kevin Smith
Rolled down the window. I was like, have at it, man.
- [28:00]
John Lovett
That's awesome. I love that.
- [28:03]
Kevin Smith
So I. I fancy my. You're a writer, right? You still.
- [28:07]
John Lovett
Sure, I'm a writer.
- [28:08]
Kevin Smith
I mean, as I sat back there, I was like, he did a lot of writing.
- [28:11]
John Lovett
Yeah. I said, editing.
- [28:12]
Kevin Smith
So you know we're fucking writers.
- [28:15]
John Lovett
Sure.
- [28:16]
Kevin Smith
Can you pinpoint the worst thing you've ever written? A lot of people for me would be like yoga hosers. I'm like you. But I've. Do you know the worst thing you've ever written where you can go, like, I know it. I can crystallize it. I'll write this date down for.
- [28:31]
John Lovett
That's interesting. It's an interesting question, because I wouldn't think that way. What I would say is I can look back and I think that if you don't look back on your earlier writing and cringe, it means you haven't really grown.
- [28:43]
Kevin Smith
Well, you're talking to a guy who made three clerks, right?
- [28:47]
John Lovett
No.
- [28:47]
Kevin Smith
Yeah. I looked back at my earlier writing. I was like, let's do that shit again.
- [28:51]
John Lovett
But that's.
- [28:52]
Kevin Smith
This isn't about old writing. I want to share with you tonight backstage, waiting to go on wrote, I think the worst thing I've ever written in my life, certainly something that I never imagined that I. Words that I would never put together. I have a lot of respect for words as a wordsmith and whatnot. And I never thought I'd arrange words in this particular fashion. And when I wrote it, oddly enough, is a text. When I wrote it and sent it, I read it and I was like, fuck, I'm so sad. This is what I wrote. I really wish we'd. Before I left, instead of watching Matlock like, I'm.
- [29:34]
John Lovett
I'm old.
- [29:35]
Kevin Smith
I'm 54, but I never imagined I put those words together.
- [29:40]
John Lovett
First of all.
- [29:41]
Kevin Smith
Yeah, I don't.
- [29:42]
John Lovett
I think that that is.
- [29:43]
Kevin Smith
Don't judge. You've seen the new Matlock, right? Because Kathy Bates is talking about that old school Matlock.
- [29:49]
John Lovett
No, no, we know what. I knew you meant Kathy Bates, Matlock. First of all, I just think. I appreciate that that was a concise, very. I think that was like a Strunk and white approved text. It was. It was concise. It was to the point. You conveyed the information. It was clear. I think that was excellent writing.
- [30:06]
Kevin Smith
That's coming from a writer. All right, so let me. You've. You've judged my thing. Let me. You could judge her response. So I said, I really wish we'd have fucked before I left instead of watching Matlock. And she Wrote, well, Matlock makes me feel.
- [30:29]
John Lovett
Now that's excellent. That was.
- [30:31]
Kevin Smith
That was pretty good. You know, I did some time in a mental hospital and whatnot. And they told me that I'm codependent and a people pleaser. And. And I came home and I told my wife, they tell me I'm codependent. She goes, no, you're just married. Get rid of that out of your head. So, you know, I wrote as a codependent. I was like, I don't make you feel good. And she wrote, matlock makes me feel good for an hour straight.
- [30:56]
John Lovett
Wow, you're, you know, she's the writer.
- [31:01]
Kevin Smith
Well, hold on, because here's the closer. At least I think it's the closer when I get home. You're getting matt cocked. She hasn't written back. I think I won. We'll find out tonight when I don't get laid. Dude, can I share a story with you? This is good.
- [31:25]
John Lovett
It's about time.
- [31:26]
Kevin Smith
You'll love this.
- [31:26]
John Lovett
I feel like I've carry this whole.
- [31:28]
Kevin Smith
Conversation feel so bad. I'm real reticent to say anything. This is, this is something that happened fairly recently. I travel a lot like you, and that's. Before I get out of here. I'm like, I mean, on stage. Like, I'm going to. I want to ask you all about your podcast financials and like, okay, yeah.
- [31:47]
John Lovett
We'Ll get, we'll get out there, we'll get out the visors, we'll get into it.
- [31:49]
Kevin Smith
I want to know how to get podcast rich. So this is. I, I spent a lot of time on the road. I've seen you guys like, as a pod, save America in venues that I'll never play at, but I've seen you in the same cities and shit like that. So I know, you know, we live life on the road. Sometimes I, I spent a lot of time on the road. I. I'm a vegan. I don't say that to convert anybody. I had a heart attack seven years ago, and after that, I, I went vegan to thin the. The cholesterol out and stuff like that, and it wound up helping me lose a lot of weight. So, you know, I used. Used to be happy, now I'm vegan. So I, Whenever I travel, like, if I go to a city and shit, I gotta find vegan food to eat. And, you know, most people, like, well, they got vegetables everywhere. I don't eat vegetables. I ain't that kind of vegan. Like, if you gave me a kumquat, I'd Be like, ew. But if you turned it into a meatball, I'd be like, give me nine, you know, so. So when I get there, there's an app. There's this happy cow app, and you enter your coordinates, and it'll tell you where, like, the nearest vegan restaurant is. So here in Los Angeles, you enter your coordinates, and every place is a vegan restaurant. But on the road, it gets weirder. Like, you know, I heard somebody mention.
- [32:59]
John Lovett
Texas before, and they're like, we think there's a potato somewhere down the road.
- [33:02]
Kevin Smith
Exactly. It's fizz.
- [33:03]
John Lovett
If you drive for a while, you might see a loose potato.
- [33:06]
Kevin Smith
Some places, though, you'd be surprised. Like, I was in. I was prejudging the city. I was in Salt Lake City, and I was like, you know, because sometimes.
- [33:13]
John Lovett
It'S a milk town.
- [33:14]
Kevin Smith
Exactly. You see, we're thinking the same thing. And, like, I thought I'd enter, like, Salt Lake City and the app would just laugh at me or something like that. But I entered a lot of options, including one that was a satanic vegan restaurant, and it was called Mark of the Bistro. Now, I found this fascinating. I was talking about it when I was there on stage, and somebody in the audience goes, you got to come to my coffee shop. And I was like, I don't drink coffee. And she goes, it's in a desanctified church. And I was like, you have my attention. And I said, what is that all about? And she goes, it's a satanic coffee shop. I was like, what's in the fucking water out here, man? And they explained. They're like, it's so much Mormonism. Like, counterculture swings hard in the other direction and shit. So she's like, will you come? I said, fuck, yeah, I'll come, man. And I. The next morning, because I was doing gigs two nights in a row, I got up and I was like, you know, fuck it. I can't wait. Like, it's satanic coffee shop. There's gonna be, like. And vaginas and, like, come everywhere. I'm like, it's gonna be an orgy. This is gonna be so desanctified.
- [34:17]
John Lovett
Probably pretty dark roast.
- [34:19]
Kevin Smith
The name of the shop promised that it was called Hallowed Grounds. So when I get there, I can't wait to see Satan. Nothing. Like, it was just a name. All they sold was coffee. That was the gimmick. And I was like, well, I don't even fucking drink coffee. I said, so I'll buy something because I want you know, I made the trip. I bought a T shirt for my daughter that said hollow grounds on it. Then I bought a mug for my wife because I thought it was funny they had a coffee mug. So a coffee place. Now, if you've been alive on the planet as long as I have been alive, and even if not that long, you have encountered this sentiment on a coffee mug, don't talk to me until I've had my coffee. Sure is one of the oldest fucking jokes. I'm sure when somebody said it the first time, somebody was like, oh, absolutely not. Like, oh, don't hit me again. But definitely, like, that's very, very witty. Wild. Very witty. And then they put it on coffee mugs. It now it's like, you know, when Garfield's like, I hate Mondays. Like, we get it. You've been saying that for decades. And this coffee mug sentiment, everybody knows it has lost its punch, but it still gives a smile. People, I saw their coffee mug. On one side, it said hallowed Grounds. On the front side of the mug, it had, in gothic lettering, it said, don't talk to me until I've had my abortion. So I was like. I was like, oh, my God, I'm totally getting that from my wife. And I brought it home. And she was like, that's hysterical. I was like, isn't it fucked up? That was funny, man. Like, fuck it. You just. You could put any word. And they chose abortion. That's fucking nuts and shit. Like that. Took that old joke and made it fucking fresh and shit. And she was like, that's funny. I say I should put a picture of me drinking on Instagram. What a terrible idea that was. Holy, dude. My whole world went on fire, man. I put a picture of me drinking from this mug and on the front of it, and it said, you know, don't talk to me until I've had my abortion. And, you know, I said, I found this funny mug. It makes me laugh. That was it. I wasn't out there going, like, here's how I feel about it was not a political statement. I'm like, look at this up mug. Holy fucking shit, man. The kindest thing I got was somebody going, I can't believe my favorite director from the 90s would make fun of religion. And I was like, I made Dogma, like, in the 90s, like, how do you know me otherwise and shit. That was tame. Then it went to shit like, that heart attack should have killed you. What are you drinking out of that mug? Dead babies? And I wrote back, I'm vegan.
- [36:55]
John Lovett
That'S interesting.
- [36:56]
Kevin Smith
That's the fucking weirdest one. This is the worst one, because I, I. On the mug, it says, like, abortion right there, loud and clear. And they wrote, your daughter should have been one. And I wrote back, my daughter should have been a coffee mug. You. They didn't think that was funny at all.
- [37:11]
John Lovett
That's okay. The politics of that joke are kind of confusing.
- [37:13]
Kevin Smith
Explain.
- [37:14]
John Lovett
Well, just that, that presumably they're mad.
- [37:16]
Kevin Smith
At you to get criticized. And I, I did want your writing advice on the text. Text. That's it.
- [37:21]
John Lovett
Hey. And I want you to.
- [37:23]
Kevin Smith
Suddenly I'm getting a clinic on, like, well, let me tell you why. Your joke failed.
- [37:26]
John Lovett
Not your joke.
- [37:26]
Kevin Smith
I get that at home.
- [37:27]
John Lovett
Their joke, not your joke. You didn't make the joke about your daughter being an abortion. They made the joke about the daughter being an abortion. Yeah, I don't have a problem with your joke. I have a problem with their joke. Your jokes have been great. I'm nothing if not a consummate host.
- [37:40]
Kevin Smith
I felt, I felt like I was getting preached to.
- [37:43]
John Lovett
Here's.
- [37:44]
Kevin Smith
Now you sound like those people on Instagram.
- [37:45]
John Lovett
But don't you think. Here's the thing about. Here's the thing about feedback from the Internet, which is usually great to me, you should kill yourself. You should have been an abortion. Blah, blah, blah. That doesn't affect me. It's the ones that. It's the smarter criticisms that get at the part of the criticism that you might believe.
- [38:08]
Kevin Smith
But your father might not have liked you as much as you think.
- [38:11]
John Lovett
Sure. That's what springs to mind for you, which is really interesting. But, like.
- [38:16]
Kevin Smith
Because I can't disprove that. Like, my mom's alive. I can call her and be like, ma, you like me as much as I think she'd be like, oh, tiger, of course I do. But I think I was dead 22 years. Who the am I going to call? My mother. Of course she'll lie on his behalf, right?
- [38:27]
John Lovett
You'll never get the truth.
- [38:29]
Kevin Smith
I gotta go. What a real existential moment that was.
- [38:32]
John Lovett
But the, the, the what is the.
- [38:34]
Kevin Smith
Thing someone would say that would cut you to the core.
- [38:36]
John Lovett
Oh, I can't tell them if they have it, they'll kill. This is like, like, it's like Superman doesn't go around explaining kryptonite. That's stupid. The stupidest thing. How'd they ever find that out?
- [38:45]
Kevin Smith
Hold on. And you're Superman in the equation?
- [38:49]
John Lovett
In this analogy, yes. Not because of my strength, because of my weakness.
- [38:53]
Kevin Smith
I love that. Oh, my God.
- [38:55]
John Lovett
I am invincible. The point. Yes, to your point. I am invincible. Unless anyone finds out what my insecurities are, which are impossible to know.
- [39:05]
Kevin Smith
Have they? In time and all the time you've been doing shows and whatnot, has more and more of yourself gotten out there where people know your weak points?
- [39:11]
John Lovett
Yeah, I would say it was a quicker process than you'd think. It was pretty much an open book. Yeah. Because people. Other. Other people be like, oh, it's weird because people, like, you know, people come up on the street and they feel like they know me. And it's like, yeah, I know. I hate that they. They think they know me. That's pretty good. They know me. So Dogma is being re. Released. What do you think God would think of what's happening with the rerelease of Dogma?
- [39:38]
Kevin Smith
And I think he'd be happy for me.
- [39:39]
John Lovett
O, that's good.
- [39:41]
Kevin Smith
I got to imagine God. Look, I'm praying to God. God loves Dogma. I would hate to get to the great beyond and have him be like, very funny. Burn in hell. That's what I thought, man. I thought, like, when I had the heart attack seven years ago, like, you know, never occurred to me to, like, pray. And I was raised Catholic and shit. I mean, obviously you've seen Dogma fucking. It. It tells the tale. But while I was at death's door and they told me, like, you're, you know, the doctor was like, you're having a widowmaker. I was like, what's that? He's like, really? You have to ask? And he's like, 80% of the cases where the patient has what you're having, the patient always dies. You're going to be in, like, the 20%. So as he went to work, he disappeared into my crotch and made magic. That's how they fix your heart. They go.
- [40:27]
John Lovett
They go in from the bottom.
- [40:28]
Kevin Smith
It's amazing. Everyone's like, maybe a man's heart is stomach bullshit right next to the balls. Apparently, that's the. So my man was fucking down there, trying to save my life and shit. And I was, you know, staring up at the hospital ceiling. I was like, this may be the fucking last ceiling I look up at and stuff. And, you know, my life flashed before my eyes, but not in that dire way, just where I was like, well, like, the man was honest with you about your odds of getting out and shit. And I figure every day you wake up, it's 50, 50 chance you're not going to make it to the end of the day, right? But those odds like, 20%. I'd never heard low odds. That low.
- [40:59]
John Lovett
I mean, the 50. 50 is too low even.
- [41:01]
Kevin Smith
That's pretty bad. But, like, fucking 80, 20. I'm like, I am fucked. So I started, like, thinking about life. It never occurred to me to pray because, you know, I figured I'd be like, oh, Lord, fucking help me, and it'd be like, you made dogma. No. So instead, I just thought about the journey, and I was, like, real, like, unabashedly appreciative. And I used to be, like, real scared of dying. And don't get me wrong, I don't want to die and shit, but, like, that used to be anathema to me. When you're creative for a living. Like, death is their kryptonite. Like, what? I'm gonna stop and fuck it. I have all these things to say, and the world's gonna go on without me. What? Nuts. So after I almost died, suddenly I was like, oh, death ain't like. I get it now. Death is like, graduating high school. Like, as much as I enjoyed high school. They're like, you gotta go, like, there's more out there, and. And maybe there's not more out there. You know, I. I used to believe, you know, beyond belief in the faith I was raised in, given to me by. By my parents, what would happen after all this. And that's what dogma comes from. It's a movie written by a person. Faith is in deep crisis. And I wrote it when I was, like, 22 years old and stuff. And so at this stage in the game, we took a lot of shit on that movie. We got 400,000 pieces of hate mail and three bonafide death threats, one of which I memorized because it captivated my imagination. It said, you Jews better take that money you stole from us and start investing in flak jackets, because we're coming in there with shotgun guns. It's a movie with a rubber poop monster.
- [42:36]
John Lovett
Right, Right.
- [42:37]
Kevin Smith
Yeah, it was.
- [42:38]
John Lovett
I wonder the Jew that it was intended for.
- [42:41]
Kevin Smith
Yeah. Because I was like, I'm Catholic. I don't know if you saw the movie, but. So I. It was. I've met many people over the years. Like who? People of faith who work in the faith business. Priests and spiritual counselors who now are like, oh, my God, I love that movie. And I was like, where the were you when they were trying to kill me? And like that. When we went to Cannes to show the movie in 99, they had to install metal detectors at the theater and shit. And the weirdest moment of the dogma experience as far as that, as far as the looming death threats and shit, was we went to show the movie at the New York Film Festival. And I mean, you know, Harley was a baby, man. She was like, under four months at that point. And we found, like, these angel wings, and we're like, oh, we'll put the angel wings on the kid. Because dogma and angels and hoo hoo. And so we get out of the car at Lincoln center and there's a thousand fucking people lined up, protesting, holding a giant statue of Mary and praying the rosary at me. And, like, I grew up with the rosary, Rosary. So I could pray it back if I wanted to.
- [43:49]
John Lovett
I didn't know you could. I didn't know you could pray it at people. The rosary I did literally, like, hail.
- [43:52]
Kevin Smith
Mary, full of grace, the Lord blessed art thou amongst women and shit.
- [43:56]
John Lovett
I thought it was supposed to go internal.
- [43:58]
Kevin Smith
No, I ducked it. I went this way. So as we came out, like, with the kid in arms with the angel wings and shit like that, people really, really yelling. Very unchristian shit. But whatever, you know, they got their beef. So we go inside, and Gina Gardini, she was a publicist back in the day at Miramax. I said. She goes, kevin, she saw me with the kid. She goes, what are you doing? I said, I'm gonna bring the kid up. Like, when I intro the movie, I was like, you know, fucking. I got this living prop. Like, fucking. If I walk out and be like, I got a child, maybe they'll like the movie more and shit. I said, so I'm gonna go out there. And she goes, kevin, she's gone. I don't. I don't want to. I don't know how to say this, but I feel like I would be remiss if I didn't say that anybody can buy a ticket to tonight's screening. I was like, I know. That's why it's sold out Rocks and Alice Tully Hall. And she was like, no, no, no, you're not hearing me. Anyone can buy a ticket for the screening tonight, including people that don't want this movie to happen. And I was like, oh, all right. And she goes, well, I feel I need to tell you that because you're about to walk out on stage with your baby in your arms. And I was like, don't. Why'd you put that in my head? And she was like, it's my job to think about the unthinkable and stuff. And I just. I couldn't in Good conscience. I had to say that what you do next is your decision. And I was like, well, you know what if I don't do it, like, if I leave the kid behind, like the fucking terrorists win, whatever. So I definitely went out on stage with the baby. But I'll be honest, I was using it like a human shield the whole fucking time. Like, welcome to Dogma, motherfuckers. But it's nice now we're coming back out, like at a time when maybe it's not like that. Like the movie's aged well. It's like 25 years old. This is the 26th year since it was released when we hit November and shit. So things have calmed down. People are outraged about other things. Like I remember when that was an outrage in 1999.
- [45:51]
John Lovett
I would say I would would lovely to imagine that people have calmed down.
- [45:55]
Kevin Smith
I would say more down that abortion mug. I think things are going to go fine with Dogma.
- [45:59]
John Lovett
See more that it's harder to get. I'd say that our outrage has kind of taken off its uniform and distribute itself amongst the civilian population. You know what I'm saying? It's like everywhere, all the time. We'll be right back with Kevin Smith.
- [46:13]
Kevin Smith
Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.
- [46:17]
John Lovett
Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Helix. I love my Helix mattress. I have a super comfortable Dawnlux. We had the holidays and we were traveling and we were in New York and it was so great to come back to my Helix mattress, my super comfortable bed. So nice to get back to a Helix mattress. How will you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? Take the Helix Sleep Quiz. Find your perfect mattress in under two minutes. I took the Helix Sleep Quiz and I was matched with a Dawnlux because I wanted something that was firm. The helix lineup offers 20 unique mattresses including the award winning luxe and ultra premium elite collections. Helix Plus, a mattress for big and tall sleepers. Helix Kids, a mattress designed for growing bodies. Endorsed by child sleep experts. Helix knows there's no better way to test out a new mattress than by sleeping on it in your own home. That's why they offer a 100 night trial and a 10 to 15 year warranty to try out your new Helix mattress. Plus, your personalized mattress is shipped straight to your door free of charge. It's helped my sleep. It's made my life better. I highly recommend it. A new Helix mattress plus some new sheets. Change your whole fucking life. Go to helixsleep.com love it for 20% off sitewide, plus two free dream pillows with mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.com love it. For 20% off sitewide, plus two free dream pillows with mattress Purchase. Helixsleep.com love it with new McValue at McDonald's, the choice is yours. And the choice with McValue is always more like free four months of the SiriusXM app. Tap now.
- [47:39]
Kevin Smith
Or go to siriusxm.com MacValue to claim.
- [47:43]
John Lovett
Your free four months of the SiriusXM App. And after, treat yourself to a buy one, add $1 deal with McValue or.
- [47:51]
Kevin Smith
Make it a meal with the $5 meal deal.
- [47:53]
John Lovett
Because with McValue you always get more than you expect. Terms and conditions apply. And we're back. Wait, I want to. I want to hear one Ben Affleck or Matt Damon story from making Dogma. Hit us with a story from.
- [48:17]
Kevin Smith
From. Let me see.
- [48:18]
John Lovett
It can be from Dogma, can be from other times. Just give us.
- [48:20]
Kevin Smith
I mean, they were like, it's not so much a story, but it's true. We were making Dogma in Pittsburgh at the time that Goodwill Hunting was up for Oscars and stuff. So the boys, before we even went out to Pittsburgh to shoot that year, like Chasing Amy. Joey Lauren Adams was nominated for Chasing Amy, and Ben and Matt were nominated for Good Will Hunting for screenplay. Robin was nominated for actor and stuff like that. So a bunch of cats went to the Golden Globes, who I was close with, and Ben and Matt won. And they got up there and they thanked a zillion people and then got off. And like, Joey saw Ben because she was there for Chasing Amy and she walked by and flipped him a quarter. She's like, there's somebody you better call. And he called me up and he was like, I'm like, I can't fucking believe I forgot to thank you. And Scott, me and Scott Mosher, my producing partner at the time, got Goodwill Hunting made. We were the ones that brought it into Miramax, got it set up. We had co executive producer credit on it. So he's like, we feel like fucking assholes, dude. The fact that, like, we didn't thank you like you, without you, nothing would happen. Like, I swear to God, if we get nominated for Oscars and shit and we ever win, if I'm ever on a stage again, I swear to you, like, we're gonna fucking thank you so much. And I was like, right on, right on. I said, don't worry about it. It's just the Golden Globes, you know, so they got nominated for a Oscar and I was like, hey, because the chances of my name being said on TV are fucking huge and shit. And so we're shooting Dogma and we're doing the airport scene with Ben and Matt, like, the very first scene they are in the movie and stuff. Betty Aberland's in it as well. He used to be on Mr. Rogers neighborhood, and she plays the nun who. Matt talks out of faith and stuff. So when we're done shooting the scene, we put the boys. We're shooting at the airport in Pittsburgh. We put the boys on the plane to go back to Los Angeles for the Oscars, you know, just finished shooting with them. Gave him a big hug, man, like, you're going to do it. This is amazing. We wish we could go with you, but we were shooting still. The boys took off and left. Spoilers. They won an Oscar. And they were very charming when they did. They got up and did a very exuberant speech where they literally thanked everybody on the planet except for me and Scott. And me and Scott were watching the Oscars with all of the Dogma cast and crew in Pittsburgh. And like, that. We're like, there's our boys. And then they won. We're like, holy. And everybody's going. And then everyone's like, quiet, quiet, quiet. He's gonna thank Kevin and Scott and the whole speech happens. And then they play him off and they're like. And they're literally gonna going, who are we forgetting? We're forgetting somebody. I was like, they're working a bit. They're about to say our names. And suddenly they were there, like a commercial. And I was like, oh. And so me and Scott, like, excused ourselves. And, you know, in the room, we were like, hey, man, it don't. We didn't do it for that. And like, that, like, it's so cool. Like, in a moment like that, like, it's totally all right.
- [51:16]
John Lovett
It seems like. It seems like it was cool with you.
- [51:20]
Kevin Smith
Happened 28 years ago. We were. Went upstairs and we were just like, you know, once, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, like, shame on me and shit. And the boys came home like, you know, two days later, they won their Oscar and shit. And they got off the plane in Pittsburgh and came to the offices and they had these hang dog expressions. And they were like, we know, we know. And, you know, so it's, again, wasn't necessary. I was. The way I was raised, you don't do something nice hoping for somebody to be like, oh, you're fucking nice. You do it because it's nice, and that's the reward right there. But, you know, I'd be lying if I. Let me see. Dogma was 1999 is now 2025. I've made a few movies, and the boys have been in those movies for years. Even movies that are probably, you know, they're at the height of their careers, and they're fucking doing cameo in a Kevin Smith movie and shit like that. And I think. Think that has everything to do with anytime I ask. And they're like, you know, I don't want to go to Jersey and choose them. They're like, but we forgot to thank this. And so they come out. But they're sweet. They're very sweet kids.
- [52:38]
John Lovett
I like that in Pittsburgh, they put French fries in the sandwiches at Primantis. Yeah.
- [52:43]
Kevin Smith
Is that the only thing you know about Pittsburgh is that your go to Pittsburgh fact?
- [52:46]
John Lovett
It's the one that's most important to me because I really do genuinely love those sandwiches.
- [52:50]
Kevin Smith
They're good.
- [52:50]
John Lovett
But I like Pittsburgh a lot. It's a good feeling in Pittsburgh. It's a good vibe. I really like the energy.
- [52:54]
Kevin Smith
If you ever go to. There's a great place got pierogies, and it's in a desanctified church. I'm real big into desanctified church. We shot Dogma into the sanctified church. Like, Dogma has that giant, beautiful church in it. But it wasn't like the Catholic Church was like, yeah, go ahead. Like, yeah, we got it from some guy who had bought it from the Catholic Church in, like, a sale.
- [53:12]
John Lovett
Hey, you know what I noticed when I was looking through your oe? It was. I didn't realize this, that you do a lot of your own editing, that you are the editor on a lot of your movies.
- [53:23]
Kevin Smith
Edited. My feature that I've directed was Mall Rats. The studio wouldn't let me, so Paul Dixon was our cutter on that movie.
- [53:29]
John Lovett
I. I was curious why that's important to you. Because directors, even when they're not the official editor, play obviously a huge role in editing. And I do feel like Ed, but. But to be.
- [53:38]
Kevin Smith
They watch the.
- [53:39]
John Lovett
They watch the cuts and give lots of notes. They get very involved. But you're the editor. You're on the ones and twos. And I.
- [53:44]
Kevin Smith
Wheels of Steel.
- [53:45]
John Lovett
And I'm curious why and why that's important to you and because I do think sometimes that editing is the kind of least. One of the least understood and respected or at least publicly kind of thought about aspects of making a movie. And I just wanted to hear about that for a moment.
- [54:00]
Kevin Smith
I'll be honest with you. I get so. So rarely do I get a chance to speak about editing that I'm turgid right now.
- [54:11]
John Lovett
Wow. Pause Matlock. He's on his way home. Good news. I've got good news or bad news. I'm not sure based on the previous text.
- [54:23]
Kevin Smith
I love it. Can't leave it. I. I love editing because I love writing. Directing is fun because I like being around actors. I love the lie that tells the truth and people who can suspend the window of disbelief. I think that's. That, to me, is just. I like being around that. And that's why I think I direct. I. I'm a writer first and foremost, and that's, I believe, thought I would die a writer only or something, and then directed curse worse than death, die a writer only. But the editing thing was nothing I ever intended, but something you do because you didn't have money to hire an editor. So it's like, all right, me and Scott cut Clerks ourselves and stuff. But Clerks is a series of very long takes, so there's not much editing involved. So for me, it's like getting to do another draft of the script. My two favorite parts of the filmmaking process, and hopefully this does paint me in an antisocial light, are writing and editing. So those are the two times I'm alone in a room and the game is on my stick. It rises and falls on me. And it has nothing to do with whether somebody else is good at their job. I have to be adept at my job or everything fucking falls apart. And as an editor, you get one more bite as a writer, because you can reshape the story. You can reshape. You can make them say things they didn't intend to say and stuff like that. So I like, like, I like that very much. But it's very easy to edit a Kevin Smith movie because I. I shoot a Kevin Smith movie like a. Like one of them kids puzzles you buy for, like, at. At a brain area or something, where it's like 12 pieces, you know, so even a child can put it together. I don't overshoot. Like, we'll figure it out. In editing, I only shoot, like, oh, I got these three lines here. I don't need anything else in this angle. Let's jump over here and stuff. So. So I think because of that, I often question if I can really call myself an editor. I know how to edit a Kevin Smith movie. That Being said, my friend Logic made a movie this year or well, just last year, it's coming out this year called Paradise Records and I was an exec producer on it. But I said, look, where I could be really useful to you because he's a first time director is editing. I'll hang out while you shoot the flick. I'll edit on set and whatnot. And I could tell you if you're missing any shots or blah, blah. So I edited somebody else's movie. And granted I was close to the material. It wasn't like somebody just gave me a bunch of footage cold and I had to figure it out. But I was delighted to see that I could edit something that wasn't mine. After 30 years, I was convinced. Like, like most things in life, I've carved myself a lane where I can just do me and not be judged for anything else. I slowly gravitated from being one thing, from making art to trying to be the art myself. If I'm a director, they can judge me against other directors who do the job far better than me. But if I'm Kevin Smith for a living, there's no other comparison. They can't be like, well, this Kevin Smith's way more Kevin Smith than you.
- [57:19]
John Lovett
And so slowly like Heinz Ketchup in a sense.
- [57:22]
Kevin Smith
Exactly, exactly. It doesn't have to want to be cats up. I want to be the og.
- [57:25]
John Lovett
Because if you're Heinz Ketchup, you don't need to worry about someone making a better ketchup because you are ketchup. You are the. You are the thing, you are the archetype.
- [57:32]
Kevin Smith
And you think anticipation. Yeah, that is somebody who saw that commercial in the 70s many times.
- [57:39]
John Lovett
And you know what that sound means? And now I'm getting the anticipation thing. I'm remembering because the bottle and over the edge. Kevin, before we let you go now originally.
- [57:52]
Kevin Smith
Oh, what the.
- [57:54]
John Lovett
Well, it's before we let you go, but then we're gonna let you go. But right now you're here.
- [58:00]
Kevin Smith
You know what? My bad. They taught me that in the fucking booby hatch. And I should have remembered that, right? You see me seize up because I was like, what? In the future we're not going to be together? What the fuck? But I should really appreciate the now. That's what they told me in the fucking nuthouse. They were like, human beings don't live in the present. We're physically in the present at all times, of course. But most of the time we spend in the past where we judge ourselves and relitigate the Mistakes we've made. And that's a complete waste of time because you can't do anything to change it. Sorry to happen. You could learn from it perhaps, but that's about it. Then the other place we spend all our time is in the future worrying about anxiety, worrying about what may happen. Fretting about the fucking thing that, you know, gives us terror and gives us. Keeps us awake at night. And you can't do anything about that. Nobody knows what the fucking future is, man. And if you're gonna write a fictional future where everything goes bad, it's 50, 50 shot goes well. So you might as well flip the script, write something positive or, oh my God, everything's coming up Milhouse for me. And still that's unhealthy. The for you to be is in the present because in the present, that's where everything happens. The things you worry about in the past, they were the present once. And the things you're worried about happening in the future, they're going to be your present once you get there and.
- [59:11]
John Lovett
But you don't know what they're going to be. The things you're imagining probably aren't going to happen. Only one of the futures is going to happen.
- [59:16]
Kevin Smith
That's why you meet so many people and they're like, oh, I'm not creative like you. I'm like you. You're Shakespeare when it comes to predicting your own doom. I guarantee you you'll be the most creative motherfucker in the world when you can talk yourself out of a good future and shit. Best place to be is the fucking here and now, man. The present. Like you can, you can't control it, but you have the best possible chance of understanding it, riding that moment, man, than you do in the past and in the future. And that if somebody had told me, look, I just saved y'all 40,000 fucking dollars.
- [59:47]
John Lovett
I just. I'm sorry I didn't meet you till now because there's a YouTube you could have watched that would have given you a lot of that.
- [59:52]
Kevin Smith
100%. Weren't we playing a game or some sort of shit?
- [59:58]
John Lovett
And here, here's how it works. Now, originally your daughter was going to join us.
- [60:03]
Kevin Smith
Yeah.
- [60:04]
John Lovett
But she's not here. But Kennedy is going to be our representative of Gen Z producer. Kennedy, come on out.
- [60:09]
Kevin Smith
Can I. Can I tell you. Kennedy, get out of here.
- [60:11]
John Lovett
Oh, hello.
- [60:13]
Kevin Smith
Can I. Can I tell you a quick story about Kennedy?
- [60:17]
John Lovett
How is that possible?
- [60:18]
Kennedy
I would love to hear it. I would love to hear it.
- [60:20]
Kevin Smith
We just met, right?
- [60:21]
Kennedy
Yeah.
- [60:22]
Kevin Smith
So I was backstage. Is Bill. Bill's the guy?
- [60:25]
John Lovett
Yeah, Bill's over there.
- [60:26]
Kennedy
Bill's over there.
- [60:27]
Kevin Smith
Bill's the man I had a breakdown with on the phone the other day where I was like, I don't know anything about politics. You got the wrong guy and shit. So. So I. I come backstage and Bill's giving me the lady land. He's like, where's your daughter? And I was like, she don't want to be here. She wants to be in Boston. So he goes, all right, we're gonna have Kennedy sit in for your daughter and be the voice of Gen Z. And I was looking at him real perplexed text, and I was like, Kennedy from Fox News? And he was like, no, no, Kennedy works on the show. And I was like, oh. Because I know you all are political and.
- [61:03]
Kennedy
No, no, no.
- [61:04]
Kevin Smith
I said, but I didn't know you were that political.
- [61:06]
Kennedy
And it's Kennedy from Marino Valley.
- [61:09]
Kevin Smith
Nice to meet you. I met the other one once.
- [61:11]
Kennedy
I think this is actually a good pairing because my dad's name is Kevin.
- [61:13]
Kevin Smith
The out of here.
- [61:14]
Kennedy
Yeah. We don't talk, but that is his name.
- [61:17]
Kevin Smith
When you did, did you call him Kevin? Kevin.
- [61:20]
Kennedy
No, I just called him.
- [61:22]
John Lovett
And you know what that sound means. All right, first job. All right, here's how it works.
- [61:29]
Kevin Smith
Yes. You're finally the fucking game show I was promised.
- [61:34]
John Lovett
Kevin and Kennedy, you represent two incredible generations, Gen X and Gen Z. I'm going to give you a topic that was around in the 90s and is even more relevant today. You're going to give us a final verdict on that topic in a segment we're calling Smithbuster.
- [61:52]
Kevin Smith
Oh, my God, man. I'm in the Kevin Smith business. That never occurred to me.
- [61:57]
John Lovett
Well, you know what?
- [61:58]
Kevin Smith
Stealing it.
- [61:58]
John Lovett
Take it with you.
- [61:59]
Kevin Smith
Thank you.
- [62:00]
John Lovett
Take it with you.
- [62:01]
Kevin Smith
Look at. Oh, my God, there's a graphic.
- [62:03]
John Lovett
There was.
- [62:04]
Kevin Smith
Oh, I forgot. It's a visual show.
- [62:05]
John Lovett
It is. It's on YouTube as well.
- [62:07]
Kevin Smith
I should have been sucking in my gut the whole time.
- [62:10]
John Lovett
First up, Hugh Jeans.
- [62:16]
Kennedy
Huge jeans.
- [62:17]
John Lovett
Huge jeans.
- [62:18]
Kevin Smith
Jorts.
- [62:18]
John Lovett
Jorts.
- [62:19]
Kevin Smith
Jean shorts.
- [62:20]
John Lovett
This is an iconic photo of you in massive jorts.
- [62:23]
Kevin Smith
Yes.
- [62:25]
John Lovett
Where are we on jorts today?
- [62:27]
Kevin Smith
I. I would be wearing jorts right now were it not for the fact that it dipped to 50 degrees. And I was like, ooh, it's chilly in LA. But, yes, this photo is something I literally talked about when I was in a group session.
- [62:43]
John Lovett
Glad we could bring it up here. Yep.
- [62:47]
Kevin Smith
They saved my life and stuff, but I remember being in a group session Going like, I remember at one point they took a photo of me at a gas station and it was a really unfortunate angle, the kid was with me and shit like that. Years later, after I lost weight, I went back, retook the photo looking way slimmer and put them side by side. But this photo really haunted me and it is very triggering and traumatizing.
- [63:11]
John Lovett
Let's get off the screen. Next photo, next photo.
- [63:15]
Kennedy
I mean you say that, but I, I literally feel like Billie Eilish could wear that tomorrow and then cover people 100%, man. I, I like jorts. I don't think I, I could pull them off myself. But I did, I did go to a club and I did see this girl with them and then she had boots on and I was like, who wears George to a club? But if you're hot enough, you can wear whatever you want. And she was.
- [63:34]
Kevin Smith
And you don't wear George. You have to be fat as well. I've been wearing Jors my whole life cuz I have my mother's thighs, childbearing hips and stuff. But I fire calves so I can show them off in the jorts.
- [63:48]
Kennedy
Back to you. Yeah, I love that. This is my first experience here. I mean I think I, I had calves, I could have calves to pull off shorts, but it's not for me. I, I'm more like full length. Like I don't want you to be able to see my ankles that well. They're always covered. Actually right now I feel kind of exposed because I didn't, I didn't expect to sit cross legged in front of a full house.
- [64:14]
John Lovett
Next up, flannel. There's no picture.
- [64:20]
Kennedy
No, it's just flannel.
- [64:22]
Kevin Smith
Where like I forgot what it looks like.
- [64:24]
John Lovett
Show me yes or no on flannel.
- [64:26]
Kevin Smith
There are photos of me from the 90s wearing flannels. A lot of my characters wore flannels. Randall wore flannel and Clerks TS wore flannel around his waist in Mall Rats. Chasing Amy was covered in flannel. All my stuff in the 90s, very.
- [64:43]
John Lovett
Far it really you're. The look of your films in the 90s really was like a it Both I think. Like how old are you? I am 42.
- [64:53]
Kevin Smith
All right, so I remember, Yes, I.
- [64:56]
John Lovett
Remember it was grade school. Well, it's interesting because I remember I saw Dogma when it came out and they were adults and now they're kids. Yeah, and that's a strange thing. That's a strange thing. Like in Clerks. Clerks. I remember seeing Clerks. They were, they were cool. Older kids.
- [65:10]
Kevin Smith
Yeah.
- [65:11]
John Lovett
And I. And now they're kids. They're just children. That movie, it's a strange thing to those movies. You go back and look at them, but you. The. The looks of those movies was like kind of the Gen X look. And it's back. How cool that. How cool is that?
- [65:25]
Kevin Smith
Oh, I. I got so lucky, man. Like, at one point, the culture shifted toward comic books. And like, I was, you know, I was. I. I've been there forever and. But like in 95, we made mall Rats and it was about like, Brody Bruce, the character that Jason Lee plays was the Internet before the Internet happened. And like that. So I was well positioned. I would have been more well positioned if I actually made a comic book movie. But for somebody who doesn't have the talent and never had the opportunity, not that he ever wanted it, to make one of those gigantic fucking comic book movies. I love comic book culture. And the fact that those movies became popular and the culture shifted away from my perspective, sports towards fucking pop culture and comic book culture. I got another 10 years a free ride, even though I haven't made a comic book movie, because in Mallrats, my characters were very well versed. Chasing Amy takes place with comic book professionals and shit. So at a certain point when the culture shifted, they were like, oh, you know about this shit. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm happy to talk about comic books.
- [66:23]
John Lovett
You were involved in the almost Nicolas Cage Superman movie.
- [66:28]
Kevin Smith
I wrote the Superman. Superman Lives.
- [66:30]
John Lovett
Superman Lives with Nicolas Cage. We even got him in a costume. There's photos of him in the get up.
- [66:35]
Kevin Smith
Yeah. And then they did that Flash movie last year. There was a little mini sequence with them fighting a giant spider and shit. I was like, oh, my God. It happened.
- [66:43]
Kennedy
Happened when Superman didn't work out. Is that when he did Ghost Rider instead?
- [66:50]
Kevin Smith
Oh, no. It was years after he was talking about doing. We were making Dogma when they were about to. When Tim Burton was going to direct the Superman Lives movie. And my script they had gotten rid of and they had a whole new script and stuff, but we were shooting in Pittsburgh, and they were also going to be shooting in Pittsburgh because there was a building we wanted to use. But they're like, that's going to be Lex Corp. They've already called that. And then one day, Chris Rock came in on Dogma on set and he goes, guess who's playing Jimmy Olsen? And I was like, get the fuck out of here. He was hired to play Jimmy Olsen.
- [67:19]
John Lovett
I didn't know that.
- [67:20]
Kevin Smith
Yeah. And Then the whole movie got. They pulled the plug on it, like, shortly after Dogma wrapped. It was. I guess they felt like the budget was out of control and they didn't have a script that they were 100% on. And so the whole thing went away.
- [67:33]
John Lovett
And they're pretty unhappy that in your version, Superman worked at a record store.
- [67:39]
Kevin Smith
They were like, super. In your Superman script, he talks about Star Wars a lot.
- [67:43]
John Lovett
Yeah. Next up, we have secretary sequels. We have. We're. We're. Sequels are back. Yeah, we're seeing lots of sequels.
- [67:51]
Kevin Smith
Yeah.
- [67:52]
John Lovett
Where's your head at on sequels?
- [67:53]
Kevin Smith
I'm about to make a Jane Silent Bob sequel this year.
- [67:56]
John Lovett
Hell, yeah. Still.
- [67:59]
Kevin Smith
Still gas in that tank. Blows my mind. I mean, honestly, like, from the guy who made those characters. They're a Cheech and chong ripoff, but 30 years out of this. Like, out of here, man. I'll be honest. Like, we recently had fires here in Los Angeles. I'm sure. I don't know if anybody's aware of this. We kept it out of the news. We had to relocate. At one point, Runyon Canyon went on fire. They evacuated us. And in that moment or a few moments before, they finally or officially evacuated us. Naturally, as fires are breaking out, we're like, we should put some stuff together and just the bare things we need and whatnot. Bringing the dogs, of course, but, like, grabbing a few things. And, you know, I'm a real pack rat and a hoarder of sorts, so I have, like, fucking memorabilia from. From, like, my entire life, my childhood, all the movies I've made. And I was like, what do I grab? And. And I didn't grab any of that. Two things that. I was baffled. Like, when I left, I grabbed one. I grabbed my father's ashes, which I was like, what's the point if the house burns down?
- [69:00]
John Lovett
It's the one thing that can't be broke, can't be ruined by fire.
- [69:03]
Kevin Smith
Exactly.
- [69:04]
John Lovett
You just scoop them back up.
- [69:05]
Kevin Smith
It was fireproof. And I was like, I have to take this. But the other thing I brought was my Silent Bob costume, because I was like, I have to work.
- [69:14]
John Lovett
That's beautiful. Kennedy. What would you save in a fire?
- [69:18]
Kennedy
I packed two pairs of hoop earrings. Two pairs of hoop earrings.
- [69:25]
Kevin Smith
Wait, wait. The brilliance of that is two pairs.
- [69:27]
Kennedy
Two pairs. Because they are slightly different sizes, it's a marginal difference, but it really changes the outfit depending on how high the neck I'm wearing that day. So two pairs. Pairs of hoop earrings, and then.
- [69:39]
Kevin Smith
Story that tells. It's amazing. I know so much about you without knowing anything now, I feel.
- [69:44]
Kennedy
I think we're going to be very close by the end of this.
- [69:45]
Kevin Smith
No doubt. And then it's already you and me against this guy.
- [69:48]
Kennedy
In my mind, I wanted to get all of the, like, money I had because I. Oh, like. Like, what if this all burns down and I still have the, like, $20 Seruby's Diner in my dresser? I'm gonna miss that.
- [69:59]
Kevin Smith
So.
- [70:00]
Kennedy
So I grabbed all the gift cards that I have. Didn't grab a lot of panties. I just. I wasn't thinking. Yeah.
- [70:08]
John Lovett
I don't know.
- [70:09]
Kevin Smith
Two sizes of earrings, no panties.
- [70:11]
John Lovett
And the gift cards. And the gift cards. And the gift cards.
- [70:14]
Kennedy
Yeah.
- [70:15]
John Lovett
Yeah. That Mel's Diner doesn't burn down, I'm gonna get a blt.
- [70:20]
Kennedy
I was in crisis, right?
- [70:22]
John Lovett
We all were. We all were.
- [70:24]
Kevin Smith
Priorities.
- [70:25]
John Lovett
Kevin Smith, you've won the game.
- [70:26]
Kevin Smith
Yeah.
- [70:27]
Kennedy
Okay. All right. I didn't do well enough.
- [70:31]
John Lovett
Everybody give it up for Kevin Smith. Thank you. So this is so fun. Really good to see you. Thank you. This is very fun. Give it up for producer Kennedy.
- [70:38]
Kennedy
Thank you.
- [70:39]
John Lovett
We'll be right back.
- [70:43]
Kevin Smith
Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up.
- [70:48]
John Lovett
Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Monte Kora Breakfast tea, protein shakes, salad dressings, et cetera. I even put in a salad dressing, just like last night. I made a vinaigrette, like a balsamic dijon vinaigrette. Threw in some honey in there, but guess what? I used Manicura honey. So that had all these important ingredients.
- [71:08]
Kevin Smith
Let's hear about them.
- [71:10]
John Lovett
It's ethically produced by Manicura's master beekeepers in the remote forests of New Zealand. It contains powerful nutrients that can help support immunity and gut health. The bees collect the nectar from the manuka tree in New Zealand. Its nectar is packed with bioactives and the honey that is produced has three times more antioxidants and prebiotics than your average honey. I've always thought that my honey doesn't have enough antioxidants. Or what about the bioactives? You gotta get them bioactives.
- [71:33]
Kevin Smith
They sure do.
- [71:34]
John Lovett
The manuka tree produces a special antibacterial compound in its nectar. Manukura third party tests every single harvest for this compound and makes the results available through their QR system, which has not been affected by the freeze. No, no, that's still working. All you need is one heaped teaspoon each morning to get the most out of the amazing bioactives. And Manukura Honey. Additional usage throughout the day is completely fine, especially in helping to cut out other sweeteners. It's honey with superpowers. Now it's easier than ever to try Manukura honey. Head to manukura.com love it to get $25 off their starter kit, which comes with an MGO 850 Manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon and a guidebook which you can use.
- [72:15]
Kevin Smith
For the honey or whatever.
- [72:16]
John Lovett
Whatever. Yeah, that's manukura.com lovett for $25 off your starter kit hey friends, Ted Danson.
- [72:24]
Kevin Smith
Here and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after cheers wrapped 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre, Mary Steenburgen, my wife wife and flee from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there, so why wait? Listen to where everybody knows your name wherever you get your podcasts.
- [73:07]
John Lovett
And we're back. And we're back. As you may know, the fires in LA have been devastating as we just talked about, but we want to do everything we can to help those affected. So we have Friends of Los Angeles Merch in the cricket store with 100% of the proceeds going to vote Save America's Action wildfire relief Fund. So show off your LA Pride with a new hat or tee to pair with your favorite Dodgers merch or those athleisure pants you wear exclusively everywhere. All while supporting organizations like the LA Regional Food bank, the Los Angeles Fire Department foundation, and the Latino Community foundation crooked.com store and you can donate directly to the fund@votesaveamerica.com relief. This message has been paid for by Vote Save America. You can learn more@votesaveamerica.com this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. Also, we're just asking everybody to do us a favor and sign up for Friends of the Pod for our subscription service. We're building an incredible community. We're also building a sustainable, progressive media company. It's a great place to keep up with what's happening to get content that you can't find anywhere else. Dan makes a great, super informative show there. We do terminally online where we talk about the stuff we're obsessed about online. The zoom. Great community of people in the discord. So go to crooked.com friends. And finally, last note, if you're in LA, also come see this show at Dynasty typewriter next Thursday, February 6th. We have an incredible run of shows lined up. We're having fun at the live. We're having fun with the live show, aren't we? Crooked.com events. All right. We wanted to close out the show and bring down the lights for an intimate conversation between you and me about the one thing weighing heaviest on the nation's mind. The Amelia Perez. That's right. I finally saw French director Jacques Audiard's inexplicable musical about a Mexican drug lord who undergoes gender confirmation surgery. The film garnered 13 Oscar nominations, including Best Picture, and currently sits at 21% on Rotten Tomatoes. Fascinating. Fascinating. So I'm gonna open the floor to any questions you have about anything, but especially Amelia Perez in a segment we're calling A Million Little Things. Nice. Does. Does anyone have any questions about the film Amelia Perez? This shows. This is an out of control show tonight. What is this segment? Yes, do you have any question. Do you have. What's your question, sir?
- [75:32]
Kevin Smith
I just want to know if it's.
- [75:33]
John Lovett
Changed your opinion of Ron Perlman at all, it being his favorite movie of the year. Of the year? Not of all time. Of the year. All time. Tell you. I'll tell you what it's done for me. All right. Are you ready? Buckle up. Are you buckled in? Is everybody buckled? It only heightened my respect for Ron Pearl. Men. Why do I think Amelia Perez is a perfect film? It is not. And if anyone tells you Emilia Perez is a perfect film, you tell him, shut up. But it's good.
- [76:04]
Kevin Smith
Yeah.
- [76:05]
John Lovett
Yeah. Are you with me? Are you with me? Applaud if you think Emilia Perez is good. Yeah, that's about right. I will say this. We live in a fucking commoditized, algorithmic, tested, data driven, conformist capitalist society. And the fact that a group of French maniacs could make a film about Mexico, a place it seems they may never have been, and decide the story they want to tell is about a drug lord who goes through gender affirming care, and it is a musical. If you don't want to live in a world where that happens, fine, I do. And a lot of people are like, well, you know, it's a Spanish actor in the lead and it's the French and it's culturally appropriate. People in Mexico are debating whether or not this movie, as it makes a caricature this is a French movie. These are French people making a movie. It's going to be fundamentally silly. The French are a group of people who are, at core, deeply silly, pretending to be serious. The British are serious people pretending to be silly. The Germans are serious people and they're straightforward about that. But that is why the French do not have comedy, because they on some level know that if the French ever start to laugh, they will not stop and then they will die. And so, yes, this is a ridiculous, silly, fantastical, dumb movie. Did you think the movie about the drug lord who sings about having gender affirming care was going to be like a deeply grounded slice of life? So, no. My respect for Ron Perlman has only grown. Thank you for your question. What else you got? Never heard of the pod? Let's get in there. Hello.
- [78:21]
Kevin Smith
Hello.
- [78:22]
John Lovett
Where are you from? I'm from London, but I live here. Do you agree with Europe? About Europe? Yeah, nailed it. Yeah, that's. That's right, that's right. Like if you have. I heard that, like British people made a film about a Mexican drug lord who was transitioning and it was a musical, I'd say. Disgusting. Yes. That should never see the light of day. You tell me the French are doing it. It's like, let them have at it. It's a ridiculous society. It's a cheese based culture. Did you see Amelia Perez?
- [78:54]
Kevin Smith
No, I, I made a noise.
- [78:56]
John Lovett
My question was going to be like.
- [78:58]
Kevin Smith
Sounds kind of good. Like, is it good?
- [79:00]
John Lovett
Yeah. And yeah, so listen, I watched an hour and 15 minutes of it last night with my partner and they were like, I can't watch any more of this and they are trans. And I said, do you have to stop watching this because you're trans? And they're like, no, I just don't like this. Is this at all upsetting because if trans? No, not upsetting because of trans. But I still felt guilty about making them watch this whole fucking movie. So I had to watch the rest over the course of today in 10 and 15 minute increments, as the director surely intended. What else? I saw an interview with James Cameron where he said that not only had he said no film like this has.
- [79:55]
Kennedy
Ever been written or like filmed, like.
- [79:59]
John Lovett
The cinematography is singular, as is the writing.
- [80:03]
Kennedy
And I wanted, you know, and that's what made it one of his best films of all time. And I, and I just wanted to.
- [80:09]
John Lovett
Get your take on that. So incorrect. James Cameron, I will say, like, it is a really interesting, like the way people are making fun of the way it goes into song, that it feels like kind of haphazard and strange, and it is. Everybody pulls out that one line where, where, where. It's very nice to meet you. I'm here to talk about sex change operation. And that is terrible. It's inexcusable. It's simply inexcusable because it's like, it's like, like for a lot of the rest of it, feels like camp. And I actually think sometimes people don't like things because the movie doesn't ever say, don't worry, we know this is a joke. Like, people now need to have it. They need to have the subtext be text. And so because the movie never, never declares that it's campy or never declares that it's in any way in on the joke, it can't possibly be smart enough. You're, as the viewer, we're all trained to be narcissists by the Internet. And so the only way to experience it is to assume you're the only one that, that is smart enough to know when something is camp if not told. So you assume that, that you've cracked something they didn't intend. That's what happens. And then, then you end up. That's why you end up seeing things where you'll. You'll see a movie that's about climate change and then at some point, like the actor, like two thirds of the way through movie, be like, this is about climate change. You know, do I think that it is singular? That's such a classic James Cameron thing, right? Like, he can't just compliment it. He has to have the best compliments. First break.
- [81:45]
Kevin Smith
If you were to rewrite it and.
- [81:48]
John Lovett
Make it better, what would you do? Oh, wow, what a question. So I would say this. It is exactly what it seems to have intended itself to be. I don't think it can be changed and be made better. It can only be made less. Emilia Perez, on some level. And, you know, I also will say this. Zoe Zeldana fucking crushes it in this movie. She's excellent in this movie. I thought Selena Gomez was awesome in it. And I'm always watching what's the. What's with the murders in the building? And I'm always like, do something. And then in this movie, she does, you know, so. Because sometimes you're watching only murders in the building, and it's like you got Martin Short doing backflips, you got Steven Martin doing pirouettes, and then she's just there and it's like, do something. And here she's doing so much. And she's great. Everyone's greatness. The lead is great in it. And everyone's like, oh, they cast a Spanish trans actor to play the Mexican drug lord in the film. And it's like, I guess, I don't know, I mean, and then, and then the trans actor who is like, everyone's like, kind of like getting ready, like we're going to give an Academy Award to a trans actress. It's awesome. I think that's, it's a very good thing. And then it's like, my God, the anti anti Muslim tweets. We got anti Muslim tweets. Anti Muslim. And then apparently like, she's deleting the anti Muslim tweets. As the anti Muslim tweets are finding their way into various articles on the Internet, she can't delete the anti Muslim tweets fast enough. And it's like, what are you supposed to do with that, liberals? Nothing. Nothing. I wouldn't change a frame of it. And that's our show. Thank you so much to Kevin Smith. Thanks to Kennedy for coming out. Thanks you to everybody here at Dynasty typewriter. There are 639 days until the midterms. Have a great night. Have a great weekend, everybody. Love it or leave it as a cricket Music production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Elaine Pierre, Will Miles and Mohammed El Shegi are our writers. Evan Sutton is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer and Milo Kim is our videographer. Our theme song is written and performed by Shur. Thanks to our designer, Sammy Cadorna Reeves for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast and your digital producers, David Tolus, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman and Matt de Groat for filming and editing videos each week. So you can and our productions app is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America eas. It's love it or leave it. Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe and basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Where'd you get those shoes? Easy.
- [85:39]
Kennedy
They're from dsw.
- [85:41]
John Lovett
Because DSW has the exact right shoes.
- [85:43]
Kennedy
For whatever you're into right now.
- [85:45]
John Lovett
You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off.
- [85:54]
Kennedy
The many sides of you, from daydreamer.
- [85:56]
John Lovett
To multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw.com.