Republicans Give Thanks in Wisconsin

Summary

Lovett or Leave It: "Republicans Give Thanks in Wisconsin"

Date: August 7, 2026
Host: Jon Lovett
Guests: Adam Conover, Sarah Tiana, Dan Taberski

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Episode Overview

This live episode from Hollywood features Jon Lovett delivering his signature blend of political satire and news commentary, joined by comedian and educator Adam Conover, sports writer and comic Sarah Tiana, and podcaster Dan Taberski. The show covers the chaotic state of US politics, contentious primaries, the intersection of technology and society, comedy’s evolving boundaries, and American anger—all with humor, sharp observations, and classic Lovett side-eye.

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Key Segments & Highlights

1. Opening Monologue & “What a Week”

[02:13–17:18]

• Trump’s White House Renovations: Lovett lights into President Trump ripping up a new White House helipad out of petulance:

  "Trump showing a Chinese dictator the White House like a four-year-old excited to show you his room. Look at where I land the helicopter" – Jon Lovett [03:47]

• Congress & Scandal:
  Lovett skewers NC Congressman Chuck Edwards for wildly inappropriate behavior toward young female staffers, lampooning the laundry list of gifts and creepy gestures:

  "I scream, you scream, we all scream for a restraining order." – Jon Lovett [07:26]

• Democratic Primary Drama in Wisconsin:
  Lovett calls out the Dems' "relatively easy" mistakes as Republicans launch attacks, zeroing in on Francesca Hong’s past tweets calling Thanksgiving a "colonizer holiday":

  "If Wisconsin ends up with an election-denying Republican as governor in 2028, we're pretty fucking cooked.” – Jon Lovett [09:14]

• Markey vs. Moulton in Massachusetts:
  Lovett calls foul as Congressman Seth Moulton tries to tar Senator Ed Markey using far-fetched Epstein associations:

  "You're using the abuse of women and girls… in this shockingly cynical way." – Jon Lovett [12:51]

Notable Quotes

• On GOP ethics:

  “Buy your wife a Roomba!” – Jon Lovett [06:04]

• On Thanksgiving furor:

  "At this point, I'm just glad she didn’t say her favorite holiday is 9/11.” – Jon Lovett [09:44]

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2. Adam Conover on AI & Work From Home

[18:19–38:08]

AI’s Economic and Cultural Impact

• Adam recalls a Bernie Sanders interview:

  “He very charmingly pronounces it ‘robot.’” — Adam Conover [20:00]

• They debate the value and hype of AI:

  “I have never seen AI output that struck me as something new. Every piece… is the most generic averaging of everything I’ve ever seen before.” – Adam Conover [23:02]

  “Human beings create interesting and novel culture… from the light of consciousness.” – Jon Lovett [23:29]

• Adam critiques Google’s AI for starving sites of web traffic, raising the question of whether generative AI is extracting and replacing public goods.

• Both doubt the apocalyptic/utopian hype, questioning whether AI will be as transformative as claimed:

  “Is this a new industrial revolution, or is it, you know, a normal technology…?” – Adam Conover [27:30]

Debunking Remote Work Romanticism

• Adam describes his viral video on the downsides of remote work:

  “Systemically, it disadvantages young people who have trouble getting and keeping jobs… it’s a lot harder to unionize remote workplaces.” – Adam Conover [33:16]

• Lovett draws out the social value of being present in the workplace:

  “Your goal there [early jobs] is to build a relationship with someone who will feel guilty for all the grunt shit you did…” – Jon Lovett [35:00]

Key Takeaways

• Both agree remote work is crucial for many but can undermine labor solidarity and career development.
• They joke about tech evangelism and the limits of current AI (“water skis can’t pull a boat” — Lovett [23:44]).

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3. Sarah Tiana on Comedy, Roasts & Sports

[40:46–55:55]

Women’s Sports in LA

• Tiana praises Angel City FC and Sparks, but bemoans the merch situation:

  “You can’t buy a [Sparks] jersey… there’s like 18 LeBron jerseys.” – Sarah Tiana [42:12]

• Both riff on stadium food letdowns and stadium culture in LA.

The Lost Art of the Roast

• Tiana opines:

  “You’re only supposed to roast the ones you love; if you roast people you don’t like, then it just becomes hate… it becomes mean.” – Sarah Tiana [43:33]

• She recounts Ann Coulter’s infamous roast:

  “Everyone’s just called you a cunt for like an hour… Nikki Glaser had the best joke…” – Sarah Tiana [44:08]

• Debate about the evolution of roasts: are they losing their personal, affectionate edge?

  “Roasts used to be really personal and now the jokes are meaner but less personal.” – Adam Conover [75:09]

Don’t Hate the Player: Sports Controversies

• Sophie Cunningham & Trans Athlete Debate:

  “She’s become the face of outspoken right-wing journalism… it’s a nuanced conversation.” – Sarah Tiana [50:40]

• Aaron Rodgers:

  “He said he was ‘immunized’… it came out he did not take the vaccine... very anti-vaccine.” – Sarah Tiana [53:00]

• Martha Reeves' National Anthem:
  A comic highlight:

  “It was definitely a rough start… but, you know, hats off — literally, they said, ‘remove your… fedoras.’” – Sarah Tiana [55:27]

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4. Manifestos & American Anger with Dan Tabersky

[58:21–71:55]

• Tabersky introduces his podcast on manifestos, reflecting on the positive transformative potential of anger:

  “Manifestos are amazing for channeling anger and turning it into action.” – Dan Tabersky [62:17]

• Discusses the Richard Simmons mystery:

  “The only way to stop being Richard Simmons was to stop cold turkey… he never said goodbye.” – Dan Tabersky [61:28]

• Explores good and bad manifestos, i.e., Occupy Wall Street vs. mass shooter tracts.

  “A manifesto should take that anger and use poetry and inspiration and move people to action.” – Dan Tabersky [67:42]

• Lovett shares personal manifesto bits (directness, movie intermissions, reforming payroll taxes), and is told to “add a little poetry and make it shorter.” [70:30]

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5. "Second Thoughts" – Self-Roast & Recap

[71:55–end]

• Lovett invites the group to self-deprecate and comment on moments in the show they might rethink.
• Playful revisiting of past segments: Stevie Wonder conspiracy, AI banter, accidental praise of Unabomber’s literary style ("He seemed like the only happy guy in America" – Adam Conover [76:41]), work from home debate, and more.
• Concludes on the note that while remote work is crucial for some, there’s something invaluable in in-person collaboration:

  “Comedy sucks when people are doing it from home. It’s so much better if people are in a room together riffing…” – Jon Lovett [78:11]

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Episode Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------|------------------| | Monologue + Headlines | 02:13–17:18 | | Adam Conover: AI | 18:19–38:08 | | Sarah Tiana: Sports | 40:46–55:55 | | “Don’t Hate the Player”| 49:34–55:55 | | Dan Tabersky: Manifestos| 58:21–71:55 | | “Second Thoughts” | 71:55–end |

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Memorable Quotes

• Lovett: "Your goal… is to build a relationship with someone who will feel guilty for all the grunt shit you did, because that will be the thing that helps." [35:00]
• Conover on AI: "Every piece of AI output I see strikes me as the most generic averaging of everything I've ever seen before." [23:02]
• Tiana on Roasts: "If you roast people that you don't like, then it just becomes hate. Then it just becomes mean." [43:33]
• Tabersky on Manifestos: “Manifestos are amazing for channeling anger and turning it into action.” [62:17]

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Tone & Style

The show’s tone is irreverent, whip-smart, and deeply political—combining substantive commentary on news and society with conversational comedy, generous self-awareness, and a willingness to call out absurdity on all sides.

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For New Listeners:

This episode is an essential slice of Lovett or Leave It: part politics, part comedy, part confessional, and a lot about being alive in weird, wild, and deeply dysfunctional America.

Transcript

[A]

Legacy news outlets are hollowed out, the FCC is weaponized, the President spreads conspiracy theories, and AI is speeding the collapse of our information ecosystem. What's the end game here? I'm Brooke Gladstone, co host of WNYC's on the Media.

[B]

Each week we cut through the BS to ask the questions you need answers to.

[A]

Don't be a passive consumer.

[C]

Listen.

[A]

Listen to on the Media wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in the middle of the crossfire. From disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves, to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the Pod subscribers. Friends of the Pod is the subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe [e-mail] friends.

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Love it or leave it it's love

[B]

it or leave it.

[A]

What's up Los Angeles? Welcome to Love it or Leave It. Live from Hollywood, I'm Jon Lovett and I too am a spider man in the sense that people think it's humane to put me outside, but actually that just kills me. You think you're saving that spider, you're killing that spider. You're killing it. Either way, just step on it. We've got a great show for you tonight, but first, let's get into it. What a week. President Trump has ordered workers to rip up the new White House helipad they were installing, reportedly because he was unsatisfied with how it looked, even though the contractor told him it was actually quite beautiful under all that algae. Last week, images showed workers putting in a 100 foot wide granite Presidential seal, but by Tuesday, the seal had been removed. People are suggesting this is because Trump is a capricious dope focused on what he can control rather than all the many ways he's failed in a second term. But that is unfair. They had no choice but to rip it up. The contractors forgot to make sure Lindsey Graham was buried, pointing toward the White House. Crews have been toiling around the clock as Trump hoped to have the new pad finished before Chinese President Xi visited it in late September. Welcome to the White House, President Xi. Please direct your attention to this beautiful new helipad and not the massive pile of rubble where the East Wing used to be. Trump showing a Chinese dictator the White House like a four year old excited to show you his room. Look at where I land the helicopter. Look at where I build it. The White House has never had a helipad before, but needs one because the new helicopters that will serve as Marine one have exhaust vents that could scorch the grass. Plus they'll need to burn more fuel to carry around Trump's vast

[B]

Got him,

[A]

said a White House spokesperson. Thanks to President Trump, the White House has never looked better and it will only continue to get better under his leadership. Fun fact, that spokesperson Extra blind Stevie Wonder this week. You haven't heard about that extra blind version of Stevie Wonder? So extra blind. So blind like nothing. Because you know the rumors that Stevie Wonder can see. There are these rumors that Stevie Wonder can actually see.

[D]

Hmm.

[A]

I don't believe them. But people do you know about that? That there's people believe that Stevie Wonder is actually secretly not blind? Do you know about this?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Follow the money this week, the House Ethics Committee recommended that GOP North Carolina Congressman and member of the Crooked Dozen Chuck Edwards be censured for persistent, unprofessional and inappropriate conduct towards two young female staffers. Said Edwards staffer, I just met her. Just wait. Edwards gave the two women numerous gifts, including personalized pink and blue handguns. It wasn't a big deal, though. They were left over from a gender reveal. Other gifts he gave the women include jewelry totaling over $1,000, designer purses, shoes, flower, a laptop and cell phone, a KitchenAid mixer, a robotic vacuum, tickets to performances, and one on one dinners. Insane. Chuck Edwards is 65 years old and has a wife he's been married to since 1980. What are you doing man, buy your wife a Roomba. A staffer said that when she stopped wearing a necklace that Edwards bought her, quote, he made a comment about how disappointed he is that I'm not willing to wear what he got me. More like yuck Edwards. According to the report, Edwards would call the staffers pretty and breathtaking. He paid for one of the women to get massages, he did yard work at her house, and he skipped votes in Congress to help decorate her Christmas tree. More like Cuck Edwards. Yes, it does appear that he never actually slept with either of these women, which is somehow both better and worse. I know it's mostly worse, obviously, but you know what I'm saying? It's like yuck. But also better that he didn't. You know what I'm saying? You get it, right? It's okay. It's like yuck. And now I shall show you a picture of Chuck Edwards he's seen here moments before, holding a boombox outside the apartment of a woman who smiled at him once and who was born in 2002. Look at this fucking guy. After Edwards took a staffer to a casino and paid for drinks and gambling, the staffer texted him to thank him for a fun night. Several months later. Months later, he printed out that message, drew a heart next to it, and hand wrote, quote, perhaps my proudest personal moment. What are you doing? My God, man. Print out a text message from your wife. Edwards gave this same woman a custom made puzzle inviting her to attend an Adam Sandler show with him. On another occasion, he had approximately 30 different types of ice cream delivered to her house in an effort to cheer her up. I scream, you scream, we all scream for a restraining order. There's also this incident detailed in the report in which he wrote poems for a female staffer, including one that he read at her going away party in the Congressional office, accompanied by a slideshow during which he cried. Several staffers present testified that they felt uncomfortable, which is so embarrassing. When I read a poem I wrote at the office. Everybody loves it. On Wednesday, Edwards pulled the plug and he wrote on social media at 3:32am after much prayer and reflection, I've decided to withdraw from my reelection campaign. I will complete my current term, his statement concluded. Please don't tell my wife about this. Meanwhile, Republicans are hard at work trying to make our progressive candidates look like loony leftists. And in some races, we're actually making it relatively easy for them. Take Wisconsin's gubernatorial frontrunner, Francesca Hong, a 37 year old DSA member who serves in the state assembly in 2020, Hong fired off several tweets calling Thanksgiving a, quote, colonizer holiday that should be canceled. And I know what you're thinking. Is she a goth teen who just got asked by her grandma to pick up an extra can of cream of mushroom soup for the green beans? No. She's an adult woman who at the time had just won her first race for the state House. And when asked about it recently, she clarified with this.

[C]

I'm a chef, and one of the first meals that I made that was for the community when I was 16

[A]

was a Thanksgiving meal.

[C]

But Thanksgiving is also a time that's

[A]

incredibly painful for many people in our community.

[C]

But views can evolve and the position that I'm running for right now, and I think my background as a chef will actually help me become a better

[A]

governor that's able to bring more people together to the table. I think it's fitting that she is a chef, because if Wisconsin ends up with an election denying Republican as governor in 2028, we're pretty fucking cooked. A day later, she did do some cleanup.

[C]

My favorite holiday is Thanksgiving because there you have it. Yep.

[A]

I don't want to cancel it. I actually love it.

[C]

You know, I'm, I'm just, I'm going to be real. I'm kind of a curmudgeon when it

[A]

comes to holidays in general. And she's not lying there. Here are just a few of her holiday tweets from throughout the years. Quote, I do not enjoy fireworks. Quote, I do not allow myself to work Halloween weekend. Quote, it bro who was working on our computer, changed the background theme to snow and Christmas trees. I feel slightly attacked. Quote, looking forward to Valentine's Day service. Tomorrow will be at peak resting bitch face to celebrate all the love. At this point, I'm just glad she didn't say her favorite holiday is 9 11. Bernie Sanders does have some reservations. Here's what he had to say to John on Wednesday's Pod Save America when asked if he would be endorsing Hong. I noticed you haven't yet endorsed in the Wisconsin governor's race. What's your thinking there? And might you endorse or.

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

How did we get here? Well, the campaign of Sara Rodriguez, the current lieutenant governor, imploded over financial mismanagement. The former lieutenant governor, Mandela Barnes, who's been on this show, dropped out ahead of a story in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about rumors of inappropriate relationships with women. David Crowley, Milwaukee's county executive, had already dropped out and endorsed Rodriguez. But at the urging of Wisconsin governor Tony Evers, jumped back into the race and is now trying to mount a comeback against Hong, even though voting has already begun. But as long as he's not as woke as Hong, we stand a chance. So when people try to call me the establishment, I look at that as a slur.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

In other sordid primary news, Massachusetts senator Ed Markey faced his primary challenger, Congressman Seth Moulton, in a debate that grew surprisingly contentious. I do have a soft spot for Ed Markey, but Moulton's main critique. Ed Markey has served a very long time and at 80, is asking for a term that would mean he's 86 at the end. In a narrowly divided Senate, where any absence or illness could have real consequences is fair. But then Moulton dropped this.

[E]

Senator.

[B]

In the newly released Epstein files, your name appears repeatedly.

[A]

But I just want to ask one question, and I ask it from the perspective of a father of two young girls at home. Why would you even take a meeting with a lobbyist on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein? Now, normally I read the Epstein files before bed just to unwind, but I decided to go look right then and there. And Markey isn't in the Epstein files repeatedly in any meaningful sense, but he has repeatedly called for the files to be released. And Markey didn't take a meeting with a lobbyist on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein apparently paid a lobbyist to help secure the release of an imprisoned son of a former president of Senegal. Colleagues of that lobbyist and said they had, quote, an initial briefing with Markey, which, in lobbyist speak, could mean a phone call to a staffer or literally nothing. There is zero proof any actual meeting happened. Markey's office denies he or his staff were ever part of a briefing. And even if it had happened, there's no reason anyone would have known that there was a connection between the colleagues of a lobbyist from that lobbyist to Epstein. And that same lobbyist, by the way, the one that led Moulton to say he was disturbed as a father of daughters had donated to $2,000 to Seth Moulton between 2015 and 2020. Moulton did donate those funds to a charity, but he did that a couple weeks ago before launching this attack in that debate. And none of this stopped Moulton from posting a picture of Markey next to a picture of Epstein to repeat this allegation on social media. And I fucking hate this. And what I'd say to Seth Mo, interviewed in the past and for whom I genuinely have a lot of respect, is that you're using the abuse of women and girls and the evil of it in this shockingly cynical way. Here was Markey's response in the debate. What you are doing right now is absolutely reprehensible. I have never had any relationship with Epstein. I have no business with him. And what you're saying right now is absolutely the worst of the playbook of of destruction and character assassination which is so characteristic of MAGA Republicans, added Markey. If you don't believe me, you can ask Epstein yourself. Oh, that's right, you can't. Because I killed him. Over in pop culture news, One Night Only, the movie where sex is legal Only One day a year arrives in theaters this Friday. Raved one reviewer who directed this My frigging wife. Men know what I'm talking about. What if we watch this together? Ha ha. Texted your boss, disgraced Congressman Chuck Edwards. I hate this holiday. Added Francesca Hong. And finally, the trailer dropped for Wicker, a film about a fishmonger played by Olivia Colman who asks Peter Dinklage to make her a husband out of Wicker. And boy, does he deliver.

[C]

He's Wicker

[A]

Wicker. If you ask me, they should have called it Sex and the Settee. All right, we have a great show for you tonight, and we'll be right back with Adam Conover. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or leave it coming up. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Better Help has an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client session reviews. The feedback from real people who have actually used the service speaks for itself. More than 6 million people have used BetterHelp. Globally, BetterHelp therapists have at least 3 years and 1000 hours of hands on experience. They also hold all required education, training, and certifications across a range of mental health specialties. Meaning the perfect therapist for you could be a few clicks away. BetterHelp makes it easy to get started, answer a few questions, get matched with a therapist based on your needs, and switch therapists at any time if it's not the right fit. You gotta get therapy. Everybody needs therapy. You should be in therapy, talking to somebody. I'm honestly not in therapy right now. And I know that's wrong, but I'm just so busy. But I know that I should probably just bite the bullet and make an appointment as soon as I can. And that's true for everybody. If you can, if you have the. You gotta make the time because you need somebody to talk to. You about your problems. That's, you know, profesh. See the reviews, see who stands out. And see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com love it that's betterh e l p.com love it love it or LEAVE it is brought to you by blinds.com, imagine a home where the light behaves exactly how you want and you wake up on your own terms, not the Suns. Blinds.com has spent 30 years perfecting the window shopping experience, backed by 50,000 five star reviews and over 25 million windows covered. Blinds.com makes it effortless to transform your space. You're in good hands whether you go full DIY or use their license pros, you're always in the driver's seat. Need a hand choosing your style? Book a free consultation with a blinds.com design expert today. They'll even ship samples to your door fast and free. Choose from a huge variety of style options at prices that fit any budget. Everything is backed by blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee. Because at blinds.com, the only thing they treat better than windows, it's you. We love blinds.com we got great blinds from blinds.com in our office. There are these electronic rolling shades because it was super sunny in there in the late afternoon it would get really hot. And so we have these awesome shades that just make the office more comfortable and it's more flexible and they did a great job and it was easy. So right now, blinds.com is giving our listeners an exclusive $50 off. When you spend $500 or more. Just use code. Love it at checkout. Limited time offer rules and restrictions apply. See blinds.com for details. And we're back. We'll have Adam Conover out in just a moment, but first, the midterms are coming and Friends of the POD subscribers can tune in to this week's Polar Coaster, where Dan Pfeiffer breaks down what Tuesday's Michigan results mean for November. If you're thinking about becoming a friend of the pod, now is a great time to join. Your subscription unlocks access to our excellent substack newsletters, including open tabs ad free episodes of all your favorite crooked pods, exclusive subscriber only shows like Pod, Save America, only Friends, and much more. And to everyone who's already a friend of the pod, thank you. Your support helps power independent pro democracy media that you can trust. All right, Please welcome to the stage. He knows a lot and boy, is he going to tell you about it. It's Adam Conover. Hey, buddy. Good to see you. Thanks for being here. Hi.

[B]

Hi, everybody. How you doing?

[A]

Thanks for coming on the show.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Did you take the bus?

[B]

No, I drove here today.

[A]

I was bummed because you had a book in your hand. I was like, oh, my God, what a.

[B]

That would have been great if I read on the bus.

[A]

You're so, like, you have, you have your. You have. You're so well put together and you had a book in your hand. I was like, God, he's riding the bus here. So cool. So she's riding the bus.

[B]

I made, you know, I made a lot of my career based on famously riding the bus. And then I did a standup special about it. And then after I recorded that stand up special, I was like, that's enough of that for a while. And I. I got myself a nice little electric car. And I do take the bus quite often. I take the subway. Wonderful subway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We have in la, people. It's really popping. But now I drive around a little bit too. Yeah. It's helped me enjoy Los Angeles.

[A]

I think that's good. I think that's. I think it's, you know, I think more people should, more. There are a lot of people who must ride the bus and we should have a good system for people that have to ride the bus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it would be a better LA of people who didn't. Who could choose to rise the bus sometimes as opposed to thinking that they must be a bus all the time. People.

[B]

Transportation flexibility. And people are starting to say less in la. I don't know anyone who rides the bus. That's. I literally met a guy who lived in LA for 30 years. I told him I rode the bus. He's like, oh, did you get a dui? That's like a.

[A]

That's a joke.

[B]

People used to say riding the bus me was literally code for I got drunk and I got a dui.

[A]

No, I didn't get a dui. I'm an adult. I did coke and then drove home, woke myself up. So now we both recently interviewed Bernie about AI.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's pretty worked up about it. What were your takeaways from that conversation?

[B]

My main takeaway is that he very charmingly pronounces it it. Robot. He says robot. He says, oh, yeah. AI and the robots.

[A]

Robot.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like. And he's doing it legitimately. Like, it's not like Dr. Zoidberg on Futurama where they're making fun of it. He literally is from 1930s Jewish, Brooklyn. And he says, like, he knows the guy who invented the word robot, you know?

[A]

Right. Well, it's like he. Well, Doc, he's saying it actually in the same way Zoidberg is saying it. Because Zoidberg isn't saying it as a joke. The show's saying it as a joke. They're both saying it sincerely as Robo. I like that.

[B]

Bernie and Dr. Zoidberg legitimately knew each other.

[A]

And I think they could. You know, I think they have. They serve. Some sort of affiliation is certainly possible. Similar energy.

[B]

No, look, I think his plan is really interesting. If you guys haven't heard, Bernie's plan is a. He wants a national data center moratorium, which is. Would be very popular, I'm sure. And then he wants to create a sovereign wealth fund where the US Owns half of all of the AI companies in stock. And then we pay people out. And like, everybody. Every American would, like, get a check, like an AI dividend check, like they get in Alaska from the oil companies, which I find, like, really fascinating, you know, because AI is built on a public good, which is the production of culture that every other human participates in. Right. It's literally trained on every piece of text ever written. So every piece of text you've ever written on the Internet, it's trained on. It's all of our cultural output. And so why shouldn't we participate in the same way that, you know, the FCC controls the airwaves because, hey, the public owns the air. No company can own the air. Aren't I, therefore they can. Yeah.

[A]

Aren't I trained on the same outputs? Right. Like, I'm trained on.

[B]

Don't do that.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

Oh, you're playing into their scheme. When. When you're.

[A]

I'm asking.

[B]

I'm just like the AI. I also am trained on outputs. I'm asking you to respond, you know.

[D]

Right.

[A]

No, I know. I. And I know that, but I'm saying, what would be the response? Like, I consume a lot of media. That media informs my views. I synthesize it and create something from it. I understand that there's a big difference between. First of all, scale matters, right? It matters if you throw away a polluting company in the ocean. I once accidentally threw a can out by. Whatever. There's a difference in scale that matters. And also, I have meaning and have a consciousness and a soul, you know, And I think that's an important distinction. But, like, they are just consuming content.

[B]

I mean, you're not a corporation. Right.

[A]

But what I would say is it's wrong for them to. But just to take that to the logical conclusion, to not have you attack me for making a dumber point than I'm making, which is only to say it would be wrong if they stole all this information and then replicated it. But they don't do that. They take that information and they do make something new with it. Right.

[B]

I mean, I don't think it's good. I've never seen AI output that struck me as something new. Every piece of AI output I see strikes me as like the most generic averaging of everything I've ever seen before, you know?

[A]

Sure. I don't think.

[B]

For instance, I used to ask it, hey, can you write something new in the voice of Adam Kahn over Adam Ruins Everything, my old show. And it would output stuff I had done before. It would never come up with anything new. It's a remix of older stuff. Right.

[A]

Well, that's a different. So I agree with that. That's a different. So my. Like, I am bearish on some aspects of AI because. Because water skis can't pull a boat. Right. Like, I think, you know, that human beings create interesting and novel culture. This thing can synthesize it and replicate it, or average it, or produce kind of boring or kind of syrupy or saccharine versions of it, whatever. But human beings would create something new from the light of consciousness. That's a different matter than is it unethical? Is it unethical by definition for these companies to synthesize the product of what's on the Internet?

[B]

Well, it's not just synthesization or whatever, synthesis, it's extraction. Because they end up replacing what that thing is. Right. So just take Google, for example. Like, Google is the main example of this. Google used to be something that supported every publisher on the Internet by sending them traffic. Now all of their traffic has plummeted. Because when people go to Google and ask a question, it shows the answer to you directly. Where did it get the answer? It got it from all of those web pages that it did not produce. Right, Right. And now it's giving you the answer and it's starving those sites of traffic. Traffic to most websites has dropped by like 50 or 60%. Which makes you, like, wonder why, how Google thinks they're even gonna go on this way? Because they're, you know, they're. They're eating their own seed corn in a way, right?

[A]

No, well, that'. This is where it's like, there is something about that. A lot of AI, especially anything that is generative AI. And this is like new writing or imagery or whatever. It is predicated on a world in which humans make most of the art or make enough of the art that art is expected to be human and that there will continue to be new art for the machines to synthesize into future new art. But that might also be a limit on their ability to grow. Right. There'll be a kind of equilibrium between how much they can destroy versus how much new needs to be created for them to be of value. Because if they're all frozen in amber based on the way we spoke in 2019 or 20 or whatever, then eventually we're like, I don't use AI. It speaks with the dumb. It keeps calling me fam. You know?

[B]

Yeah. And you could picture them. Eventually the company is going, oh, what if we just pay a couple painters and a couple writers to output new text to train our, you know, to give us enough variability in our training corpus to get new text out of it? Or we could maybe do something like what Bernie proposes and nationalize the companies, because what they are fundamentally extracting is a public good. It's something that is produced by all of humanity simultaneously. And then we can use that money to benefit humanity, perhaps by funding arts on a massive scale, like a lot of other countries do. That would be very nice. Now, the interest. So I find that, like, it's just a really fascinating argument, conversations like this one. I think my concern or criticism is it really presupposes that the AI companies are producing value on a large scale, and that has, like, yet to be seen. They're saying that they're producing. They're saying that it's the new industrial revolution. Bernie said that on my podcast, which I'm, you know, I'm happy that he made that argument, but, like, I'm slightly skeptical, right, that they're actually producing as much value as they say they are. I have not found AI particularly useful. I'm not sure what most people find it useful for. And the companies that are, like, you know, rushing to put AI into their businesses are not finding it particularly useful in their businesses, you know, and so we're still in this moment where it's like, is this a new industrial revolution, or is it, you know, a normal technology meaning something that, like, you know, we end up using somewhat for the things it's good at? But, you know, I mean, even if it's as big as the cell phone, it's smaller than what they are currently saying it is and what Bernie is assuming it is. So I'm worried he might be, you know, believing the industry's line a little bit too credibly. But there's no way to prove that right now.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I also do think there's this problem where AI. There's a. There's an old aphorism that AI is just the computers we don't have yet, right? It's just like it's the next version. It's like it's in Mission Impossible. The first Mission Impossible Ving Rhames is like, I want Those new Pentium 5 processors, thinking machines. And it's like, they're not that great. And so I sometimes think we call it AI and describe, like, is this a new industrial revolution? It's like, well, I don't know about that because we're talking about a technology that is both a kind of. Can serve as a great kind of super Google research assistant. It can make ugly art, it can do bad writing. It can also search for variants in DNA. It can do things with. It can do a lot of different things. And each one of these have potential applications and are different and to varying degrees reflect the value of the technology. Like for me in my day to day, I find its writing to be atrocious and I've tested it in all kinds of ways and it's like, it's actually a very, very little use. Where it is very useful is as a research tool. I don't rely on anything it ever produces, but it does kind of, it can do a quick trawl and find a bunch of sources and then I can go to those original sources. And that is useful, right? Like that is a valuable thing that did not exist before now, I don't know how valuable. But for me that does help.

[B]

You know, it's really funny, over the past couple of weeks I was like, I use a paid search engine called Kagi, which is like a Google alternative that has a lot of features that I like. It's about 100 bucks a year. They have their own private AI assistant, right? So it's like, well, you know, I'm paying to use this thing, might as well use it a little bit for research purposes, right? And one of the nice things it does is it searches the web and it summarizes what it finds. Like it shows it searching, right? So it's really easy to follow up on the sources. And I have been trying to learn to put in these new contact lenses. I've been prescribed scleral contact lenses. They're really big. You have to really open your Eye wide. So I'm trying to learn how to desensitize my blink reflex. And so I was like, can you find like things people have said help them desensitize their blink reflex. And it says, okay, well here's a ten step program, you know, hold your eye open and start touching the white of your eye lightly if you want to, you can use the back of a sword spoon or you can use the little plunger that the contact lens comes with. But he didn't have a citation for that. And I said, well, okay, where did you find like the Reddit thread or the forum thread where people said you could touch it with the back of the spoon? And it said, oh, nowhere. I made it up. And I said, oh, it's a little concerning that you made it up. It said, oh yeah, that is very concerning. Good point. And I was like, this is like it so quickly contradicted like its use as a research tool. And again, this is after three or four years, years of people saying this is the worst it's ever going to be. Oh, it's going to get so much. But to me it's about as good as it was a couple of years ago. And the other thing about that argument that it's going to be, you know, oh, it's the next computer is like large language models do seem useful for some stuff or token, whatever the, you know, token neural networks. But it still only does that, right? It has the weights of the tokens and it produces output based on the input. That itself seems like it has limited utility. And a lot of what people are imagining when they talk about AI is something that like a token processing neural network doesn't seem like it could accomplish at all. Like a lot of the things that humans do are not have nothing to do with just like comparing weights of words or pixels. Right, right. The word the world doesn't actually come in weights and pixels and like occasionally someone has to like actually fucking move through space and like make a coffee, you know, like, like, you know what the economy actually runs on my grandmother's bedpan needs to be changed and the person who changes my grandmother's be needs to eat some food and the food needs to be brought to her house and it needs to be prepared and like the world is made of people. And I have yet to see the evidence that like, you know, 80% of jobs are automatable in that way. I just don't think it's fucking true. And you know, I love the idea of nationalizing 50% of like any industry, basically. I think that's probably a good idea.

[A]

We were saying that shit for Hasan Piker's stream. All right, sure, we can explore that.

[B]

But, like, you know, do we. Do we. Do we actually believe the claims of the companies or not? You know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's very hard because it is like this sort of the mystical quality of the debate, the way it kind of gets blurred, like, are they going to become conscious? What does it need to become conscious? To be extraordinarily capable and to disrupt a lot of the jobs. And also, we don't know what consciousness is. So not going to be sure.

[B]

I'd know. When a computer start talking about it, will AI become conscious? I want to shoot myself in the head with a gun. Like, I'm like, you know, I did philosophy.

[A]

Oh, don't do that.

[B]

That was when I was 19 years old.

[A]

That's what.

[B]

Stoned on the porch with you, buddy.

[A]

No, no, no, you're right, you're right. I shouldn't have interrupted. You're making a good point. I was just sort of struck by the. By the threat. Is there something you've wanted to debunk lately?

[B]

Oh, that's a really good question. Something I have wanted to debunk lately. You know, I just did a video on my YouTube channel that. That made people very mad about all the downsides of our sudden shift to work from home as a culture. And that was based on a lot of my own experience and like, other folks that I've worked with. And it's really interesting. Like, work from home, like, systemically, like, disadvantages young people who have trouble getting and keeping jobs, because when you're trapped in a zoom box, you can't interact with other people. You're treated much more like a little bit in a system that can easily dispensed with. And it's really. It's a lot harder to, like, unionize remote workplaces if you care about, you know, labor rights. And I've been thinking a lot about the real world and how important your presence in the real world is and how much power it gives you, you know, and I think that, like, work from home is really. It's huge advantages for so many people, disabled folks, you know, parents of young kids, et cetera, et cetera. For many, many people, it's great. But I think that, like, workers have run to it so much, we've sort of, like, neglected to see how much power it takes away from us in a lot of cases. And it's also increased inequality because only white Collar jobs get to be remote, right? And this, it was like a really interesting set of arguments that we laid out on YouTube and people got mad. People love working from home and as they should.

[A]

Well, they, you know, I sometimes think it's a little bit like staying at home. Sometimes it is. A part of it is a little bit like staying from home and watching Netflix versus going out when you don't really feel like going out. And you know, Guy Brown, Adam would often say sometimes you have to leave the house to want to go out. And it may feel like not a lot of it's exhausting at times, but there's something that happens despite yourself that made it good that you left the house in ways you may not understand. I also, you know, people, People would say, like, about. Talk to me about when I. For advice, like, what should I do? Like, what kind of internship? Where am I going to learn the most? It's like, you should, if you can, like, try to get either an entry level job or an internship in a profession you're really interested in. And. But do not presume your goal in that first six months is to learn a lot. You will, and that's good. You should try. But that is not an opportunity for you to gain the career experience you want. Exactly. It's your goal there to build a relationship with someone who will feel guilty for all the grunt shit you did, because that will be the thing that helps. They will become your ally and give you advice and help you figure out your career as you move through life. And like, you just gotta show up.

[B]

I think that's a good point. I put it less in terms of career advancement or that kind of thing, and more that, like, we are fundamentally social animals. We wanna be around other people. We benefit from being around other people. You know, when prisoners are isolated, right. It's like it's a form of torture, right? Solitary confinement. And so, like, when we isolate ourselves from other folks when we're too quick to do that, you know, plenty of people have been forced to go to workplaces they don't want to. And that's bad. That's very bad as well. Right. But like, I think that we could all do, even as workers, to remember how much we get out of being around other people and how much, like, power that gives us in the workplace. Like, like union organizing is about looking someone else in the eyes and saying, we have a shared struggle, right? And like, fuck that. Fuck the boss over there. But I'm talking to you right here. We haven't seen him For a while.

[A]

You're losing me a little bit. The.

[B]

I know you're writers unionized a couple years ago.

[A]

No, no, no, I'm joking. I love, love the crooked union.

[B]

I like to make hosts do that when I come on shows.

[A]

But no, but the other thing I felt, too, about this debate that got a bit warped. One of the challenges I've noticed is that the people that write about work from home are writers. And writing is a profession that is, like, kind of annoying. And it can be like, I know for, like, the team that works at Love to leave It.

[B]

Like, they.

[A]

They come in and write, and it's like they got to find a place that's quiet. We have, like, our anchor day is Wednesday where everybody comes in the office, and that's our big day for doing a lot of the writing. And so I sometimes think, too, that a lot of the people that poo poo, the benefits of coming to an office just happen to be the kind of people whose jobs it is are to write articles on the Internet from their apartments. Are like, why the fuck would I want to do this at the headquarters of Vox.com you can eat shit. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

It's also, on the other hand, people like me who write, I want to acknowledge, like, when I talk about this, it's like, I like working with other people because I get to work with comedy writers, you know, and people I enjoy being around. A lot of people don't. And so the problem, this conversation is it really contradicts a lot of people's, like, lived experiences either way, you know, and that's what makes it difficult. But I just think it's something that, like, we should. I'm just trying to pull people out of their perspective on it and, like, get a little bit of a broader view, because I think it's worth it.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you, Adam. His podcast, factually, is available wherever you get your podcast and watch him on YouTube at the Adam Conover. And we'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. Love it or Leave it is brought to you by cookunity. I love Cookunity. I had a bunch of meals from CookUnity. I had a Spanish kind of beef bowl that was great. I had pasta that I really liked. It was shrimp pasta, and there was a chicken and broccoli pasta that I really liked. Had a chicken Caesar wrap that was great. So I love, love having cooked Unity. Basically, how I use it is a couple Nights a week I'll have it for breakfast, honestly. And I like, it's like I'll come home from the gym and I have just like a few minutes between getting over from the gym and wanting to get to the office. And so I can just throw one of those guys in the microwave. It comes out great. It's great food. You can like pick the ones that are high in protein and whatever you're looking for. I always, I like getting ones that have a mix of carbs and vegetables and a lot of protein. And then it basically as like breakfast. But also I use it basically as like an early lunch and it's awesome. But I also sometimes have them for dinner. They're just a great flexible thing to have in your fridge. I get four meals a week right now. They come on Mondays. I put them in my fridge. And then basically during the week, the work week, I have a couple of these meals and they're just excellent. The food tastes like someone just made it for you because they did in a small batch that morning. There are hundreds of dishes to choose from. The menu features 10 different dietary preferences and over 25 cuisines and is updated constantly. CookUnity is the first chef love meal delivery service that makes your meals in small batches inside local micro kitchens across the US not factories. So every dish arrives with the kind of freshness you'd get at a restaurant itself. Meals from Michelin star chefs, James Beard winners and Food Network stars. Go to cookunity.com LOLI or use code LOLI before checkout for 50% off your first week taste what happens when real award winning chefs make fresh small batch meals for you. Go to cookunity.com LOL LOLI L O L I or enter code L O L I before checkout and get 50% off your first order. That's 50% off your first order by using code LOLI or going to cookunity.com

[D]

LOLI hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in the middle of the crossfire. From disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves, to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the Pod subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe [e-mail] backslash friends.

[A]

And we're back. Please welcome to the Sage, A good sport. Who's good on sports? It's Sarah Tiana. Hi, thanks for being here.

[C]

Having me. Hi, thanks for having me. Woo. Look at us. Yeah, look at us putting our feet up.

[A]

You currently host the show Women's Sports now on espn. What is your favorite women's team to watch here in la? I'm an Angel City season ticket holder. Come on.

[C]

Love Angel City just filmed a TikTok video with Casey and Giselle.

[A]

Cool.

[C]

Very fun. Love Angel City just got the new swag from anthropology for them. Love the Sparks. You know, I do, I really do enjoy this, but I'm from Georgia so I should love the Atlanta Dream, but I just can't.

[A]

Why can't you?

[C]

I just started going to Sparks games. That was my first introduction into the wnba and like, I just love neca. I'm really sad that Kelsey Plum left. Like, you know, like, they're just really fun. I do have neck notes, but about the Sparks. But we can leave that for another.

[A]

Like on the, like the design of the logo or anything or like the playing.

[C]

Where do I start? No, yeah, a little bit of the playing, but mostly the merch. I'm like really sad about the merch because when you go to a Sparks game, you can't just buy a jersey in the store, which is really disheartening because there's like 18 LeBron jerseys.

[A]

You can't buy a jersey.

[C]

They're just not for sale. They will have like a retro Lisa Leslie jersey. And you're like, cool. Yeah, of course. Like, I probably already have this.

[A]

I do have some notes on the food options at BMO at the city.

[B]

I want.

[C]

I'm like, it's the same as Sofi, like where you're like, this is a new stadium. They should have lots of great options, but they're just mid. They try too hard. They'll try to do like something fancy. And you're like, I just really want a good hot dog or really great chicken tenders with like, you know, honey barbecue or something, you know, like something hot.

[A]

Honey, this wasn't broken. I want a fucking Helmet made of plastic filled with goddamn nachos.

[C]

Absolutely. That's Dodger Stadium. I would cheer for Al Qaeda before the Dodgers. But, like, I love the food at Dodger Stadium. Like, no notes.

[A]

You're also. You've worked on quite a few. We are. You can leave this part. I don't care. Dear audience, we cut everything where we riffed about Al Qaeda.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're also a great joke writer. You've written a bunch of roasts. We had W. Kamau Bell on this pod. He hates the roasting. He thinks roasts are dead. Agree or disagree,

[C]

it's hard to disagree, but I don't. I think roasting used to be an art. You're only supposed to roast the ones you love, because if you roast people that you don't like, then it just becomes hate. Then it just becomes mean. It was like when we had Ann Coulter on the Rob Lowe roast. People were just doing jokes about her that were super mean. And I was in charge of her, and I was like, you know, making

[A]

sure her bowl was full and that there was enough water in her tank.

[C]

Had enough. Yes. Had enough blood to drink. You know, stuff like that. And at one point, they were like, go, tell her to laugh. And I was like. Cause she was, like, just sitting there, like, angry the whole time. And I was like, anne, you know, just like, when people make jokes about you, just try to laugh. And she goes, well, I laugh when it's funny. And I was like, you're not wrong. Literally, everyone's just called you a cunt for, like, an hour. You know, I think Nikki Glaser had the best joke about her, which was like, ann. Ann Coulter. The only man Ann Coulter will ever make happy is the Mexican who digs her grave. It's a great joke.

[A]

Great joke.

[C]

Nikki Glaser, the guy.

[A]

That's a great joke.

[C]

Yeah, great joke. But, you know, I mean, I think it used to be you only roast the ones you love. And now, you know, we're roasting people, you know, who have been roasted before or, you know, who, like, maybe aren't as roasted. Like, when we had Tom Brady, you know, no one had made fun of Tom Brady. It was so exciting. And lately, it's just become like, who can we, you know, roast next and who will take the job? Like, who will do it? And Kevin Hart, who I love, you know, who is very funny and incredible. And I thought the roast was very, very entertaining and lovely. But it's like, you know, we do make fun of Kevin Hart all the time. Kevin Hart Makes fun of Kevin Hart all the time. Yeah.

[A]

I find myself when I watch the roast. Cause I'm like, the correspondence dinners are basically a form of a roast. And I love the craft of these kinds of jokes. And I just find myself watching them and just, like, I can't help but, like, write the material that I wish they were doing just as I'm watching it. Just like, come on. Like, there's like such a. It's like, it's very. You're right, because this is the point that Kamau made as well, that, like, it doesn't have the personal touch that it would have had in the past where people who really knew each other, even when they first started airing on Comedy Central, there were people who knew each other.

[C]

Yes, they were friends, you know, and like, I think in Kevin's house, in Kevin's roast, there were so many lovely parts. Like, I think, you know, Naim, who is his opener, like, that was really beautiful and personal, you know, and Big J, who had known him for a long time, like, those. Those felt very personal. And then there was, you know, some more of his friends there. But, you know, I definitely. We want to connect. We want it to be real. I mean, I've roast battled people before, and people have been like, asked me to roast them, and I'm like, you know, we're not friends. Like, why would I roast you? Because when you roast someone, you have to do tons of research on them, and I'm not gonna kind of waste that energy on people that I don't feel like deserve it. And, you know, when I'm writing a joke about you, especially as a friend, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm trying to impress you. Like, I want you to love the joke so much that you want it for your act.

[A]

Yeah. Cause we did a roast at our rehearsal dinner that we turned that into a roast, and people really brought it, and they. They were so mean. Hallie's here. She roasted the ever loving shit out of me at that, and it was great. Has there ever been a roast where you've written a joke that didn't get used that you thought would have just absolutely killed?

[C]

So, yeah, during the James Franco roast, I wrote a joke for Jeff Ross, and he did it in the room, and it was James Franco. You're an insult to Italian actors everywhere. I bet James Gandolfini is trying to roll over in his grave right now and, like, it killed him. Like, he kind of. Like, he. Like, it was right after Gandalfini died So it was, like, super topical, and I was. And it murdered in all the rehearsals. And then when Jeff said it, he kind of did a second. He paused in the middle of it, and then so they cut it because of, like, the way he delivered it. And he didn't do a retake in the moment, which was totally fine. Cause I was like, I'll just get to keep that joke forever. Like, I'll get to, like, use that on other people.

[A]

That's great. Now sort of kind of breaks the rule a little bit, because that's not really a joke about James Franco. That's a joke about James Gandolfini. He really caught a stray there, though. He wouldn't really mind. He was dead. Yeah. It was, in fact, just a fat joke. Simply a fat joke.

[C]

Sometimes those are really fun. I mean, I remember roasting Ralphie May because we were, like, at the time we were pitching Roast Battle, and so we were, like, pitching it to HBO or something. And so me and Ralphie decided to roast each other. And I remember it was, like, right after the Ray Rice scandal had happened in the NFL. You remember he played for the Ravens, and it was like, a big domestic violence scandal. And I said, ralphie kind of reminded me of Ray Rice. I was like, you're not an athlete, but no one would want to be on an elevator with you either. And that was, like, one of my favorite. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And, you know, Ralph Hay was like, I want to use this. I go, yeah, you should use it.

[A]

That's a good joke.

[C]

So that's.

[A]

You know, there is something about, like, the roast thing, too, that's about. Yes, it's about. About, like, going after people you love, but also about that. Like, this is a space where we do those jokes. And part of it is just the craft of a really good fat joke. Even if on some level, we're like, we know we shouldn't be doing this, but this is the space where we do it.

[C]

Yes. And I think, you know, when you really love somebody, you want to do stuff about them that, you know that they will love or appreciate. And so with Ralphie, it was definitely, you know, I do a couple fat jokes, but then I do jokes about, here, him being a bad father or a bad husband. You know, so it's like you kind of spread them out, and then maybe you just, like, trickle a little fat in there.

[A]

So. Yeah, like.

[C]

Like he does on his salads.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Or.

[A]

Yeah. Or like, you know, making a roast. So now, I did want to ask you about a lot of sports News in a segment we're calling Don't Hate the Player.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

And basically, I just want to go through a couple of news stories just to understand why people are mad at an athlete. Okay, first, first up, why are people mad at Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham?

[C]

Well, where do I start? So Sophie Cunningham, she's recently become outspoken about trans athletes, specifically biological male transitioning into female and bringing that into locker rooms in the game. And so people are definitely upset about her with that. And even when they've asked her to kind of correct her stance, she's kind of doubled down on. And I think, you know, in the sports world, it's obviously a nuanced conversation. And she is on a team with Caitlin Clark and by proximity, she gets a kind of. And her. And there's another player on the team there called Tres Leches because they're the three white girls on the team. And you know, so they already have like a. They call her MAGA Barbie. So, you know, they like. I think the right is always looking for someone famous to cling onto. I mean, you've seen the lineup for America 250th. Like anybody who may have done something

[A]

fog a mirror, we want you in the thing anytime.

[C]

And if you like Trump, then you're there. So I think she's become kind of the face of, you know, like Riley Gaines went to a game and it's like, I don't think you've ever been to a wm, you know, like, so they're kind of clinging onto her as like this beacon of, of outspoken right wing journalism. I know it's a very difficult conversation.

[A]

Well. Cause part of it is like, people need to be able to have. Of course, people are free to criticize what she's saying, but also I think sometimes it's like, given that I think most of the country at this point has now decided, basically, if you blur your eyes and look at all the polling, it would say people don't want trans people to be discriminated against in their work and in their lives. They want people to be able to live with themselves where they have concerns about. They're concerned about young people and they're concerned about sports. They really. And, and so there's gotta be. Because I think, like, then the, the coverage, especially from the left then says that she's anti trans. And then it's like, well, hold on. If we define anti trans as people who agree with this, then a lot of people are gonna think they're anti trans. But at the same time, I Understand those who are like, well, I don't want to concede here because they don't care about sports. They really want to make trans people feel unsafe everywhere.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You know, so I think it puts the athletes in a tough position too, for sure.

[C]

Because they're also the people playing the. I shouldn't be involved in this commentary because I'm not in the locker room. I don't know. But I just know that there's arguments on both sides. There's no argument to the advantage of a biological male transitioning into a female that somehow that makes you. It's not like a man just puts on a wig and goes out. There are so many different drugs in their body. It's been proven that your lung capacity goes down. It doesn't mean that you're automatically advantaged just because you had testosterone at one point. So I think that there's a lot of different research that needs to happen and no one's really giving way to that and no one's really proving it. And honestly, I will care more about the seven trans athletes trying to get in professional sports when the Epstein files are released because I think it's all a distraction. Thank you.

[A]

Why are people mad at Aaron Rodgers?

[C]

Oh, Aaron Rodgers. So Aaron Rodgers recently said that Dr. Fauci, Tony Fauci, who he calls him, as if they're on a first name basis, as if Aaron Rodgers knows anyone's first name, that he should be in prison, that he's a criminal. You know, Aaron Rodgers famously said he was immunized when they asked him if he took the COVID vaccine during COVID and he said, I've been immunized. And then it later came out that he did not take the vaccine. He was very anti vaccine. And he was like, I didn't mislead the media. And so when he's, he's recently said he was married, which everyone is shocked by, and everyone keeps saying he's been matrimonialized because we've, we've never seen his wife. Not that we need to for that to be proof, but, you know, he's just a polarizing figure and he's always been outspoken on, in, you know, in right leaning politics.

[A]

So what was he, what was he, how could he be immunized? What did he mean? Did he mean that he had like natural immunity or.

[C]

Yes, that he was taking Ivermect. He said he had a long talk with Joe Rogan, his doctor, apparently, and that made, you know, that he had taken all the precautions necessary to not contract the disease, but he also refused to wear a mask, so there's that. I know.

[A]

And finally, we have Motown legend Martha Reeves singing the national anthem before the first women's pro baseball league. Who could be mad about this?

[B]

And the rocket red glare the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night.

[A]

10 out of 10. No notes.

[C]

Yeah, no notes. Absolutely. My favorite national anthem of all time. It was definitely a rough start to the women's professional baseball league. And apparently she had had a couple conversations with those backup singers about the harmonizing because there were two country singers who got paired with her. It was the first day. And so I'm trying to look at it. As you know, there were some missteps.

[A]

She put out a statement that said the field conditions were wet and windy and without stage monitors, I wasn't able to hear myself as I normally would. While it wasn't the performance I had hoped for, I'm grateful to have been there to support these remarkable acts in this groundbreaking league. That makes me sad. I think it's sweet.

[C]

You know what's even so, even better than that national anthem. Before the national anthem. You know how, like before national anthem at a sporting event, they'll be like, please rise if you're able and remove your caps as we sing, as we celebrate America and women's professional baseball league, they said, please rise and remove your hats, caps, visors, and fedoras. And I was like, you know your audience. It was fantastic.

[A]

Yeah. Please remove your Brandi Carlisle branded fedora before we sing the national anthem. Well, thank you, Sarah. And catch women's sports Now, Thursdays at 3pm on ESPN and listen to Sports Bitches, my podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or leave it coming up. Love it or leave it is brought to you by Built. Here's a question. Are you getting rewarded for paying your rent or mortgage right now? Did you know that was even an option? If the answer is no, you need to check out bilt. Become a Bilt member means earning points on every housing payment, no matter where you live. Build points can be redeemed for flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, future housing payments, and more. You can use your points for fitness classes and for restaurants and for Amazon.com but there are dozens of ways to redeem members. Also get access to the AI neighborhood concierge right in the built app. It doesn't just give local recommendations. It takes action from paying rent and reserving dinner tables tables to booking fitness classes and ordering lifts. It handles tasks seamlessly while applying your member benefits across 50,000 plus partner merchants. First, you download the built app. Second, link any credit card or debit card to the app so purchases at your local spots become even more rewarding. And third, ask the neighborhood concierge in the app. Pretty much anything. Download the built app and join the membership for where you [e-mail] Love it. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com Love it. Use our link so they know we see sent you.

[D]

Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in the middle of the crossfire. From disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves, to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the POD subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe [e-mail] friends.

[A]

And we're back. Please welcome to the stage the man behind the manifesto. It's Dan Taburski. Hi, nice to meet you. Thanks for being here. Hi.

[E]

Hi.

[A]

Nice to meet you.

[C]

Nice to meet you.

[E]

Nice to meet you.

[A]

So I want to talk about your new podcast, which is about manifestos, what they are, where they went, if we should bring them back. But I actually was excited to meet you because you did the podcast Missing Richard Simmons.

[C]

I did.

[A]

And I want to tell you something. So do you know about Missing, do people know about this podcast, Missing Richard Simmons?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so basically, Richard Simmons just disappeared from public life and you went on a journey to find out why.

[E]

Correct.

[A]

And to find him.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And you didn't?

[E]

No. Well, I know. Yeah. I knew where he was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

In his house?

[E]

Yes.

[A]

But you didn't talk to him?

[E]

I did not.

[A]

And he didn't talk to you?

[E]

No. No.

[A]

And you never really saw him?

[E]

No.

[A]

But you Learned a lot.

[E]

I did.

[A]

About what led him to become so reclusive.

[E]

Yeah, a lot of it's guesswork because I never talked to him. And so you're sort of. But, yeah, for sure. Like, it was a long journey of figuring out why he would do something like that, why he would just be Richard Simmons for the most public celebrity for 40 years and then stop on a dime.

[A]

And can I tell you that I have a little theory that I wanted to run by you ever since that I listed the podcast, which is. And I'm sorry, I'm just going to say what it is. I thought, what if he gained a bunch of weight and didn't want to be seen until he lost the weight, but then couldn't lose the weight?

[E]

Yes, 100%. That was definitely one of the things we talked about. That was definitely a possibility, for sure.

[A]

But we don't know.

[E]

No, we do know. He didn't gain the weight. He didn't gain weight.

[A]

We know that. How do you know that?

[E]

There was a public. The police went and did a. What do they call, a wellness check to make sure. After the podcast, they were like, okay, we got to check this out.

[A]

It was after the podcast.

[E]

It was during the podcast. It was actually during the podcast, they

[A]

did what was airing.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, but it wasn't in the show

[E]

at the very end. It was in the last episode.

[A]

So they check it.

[E]

Talked about it. They checked, and they said he's normal. He was. They said he was fit. They said he was.

[D]

He.

[E]

That he was in great shape. Like. They said that he was. He was fine. He was lucid. He was.

[A]

Then what was the deal?

[E]

He. I don't know. I mean, a lot of it's conjecture, but I think ultimately it was that he had spent so many years giving so much empathy to so many people, not being sort of professionally trained on how to do something like that and maintain that sort of work and sort of protect yourself at the same time.

[A]

He has to go to the coffee shop and he has to be Richard Simmons at the coffee shop.

[E]

He doesn't have to, but he was always Richard Simmons. Like. Like when in public. I've had dinner with him in public, and it is wild. Like. Like, he's like, I'll go to the bathroom. And I swear to God, the next minute, you saw. We saw him jumping outside the window, and he was outside on the street. Jumping. Jumping on the beach, down with people. Like, he just. He couldn't stop doing it. He couldn't stop doing it. And so the thinking Is that. Is that he. Basically, the only way to stop being Richard Simmons was to stop cold turkey. And that meant all the people that he was helping, all the people that he loved, all of his friends, he never spoke to them again, and he never said goodbye.

[B]

Wow.

[E]

Yeah, it's really a wild, tender, moving story. He's an incredible person who had a really wild ending.

[A]

Yeah, I sympathize because everywhere I go, people want me to just put on

[E]

this show, totally Dance monkey, dance.

[A]

And it's like, I'm sorry, I'm just off duty today. I can't give you that thing you're desperate for.

[E]

I get it. But you love it.

[A]

You love it a little bit. So your new body podcast is called Manifesto. And now, look, I would say most people have a negative connotation with the term manifesto because of, for example, the Unabomber.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

But you have your own manifesto in the program. 11 points. Give us a couple of them.

[E]

God. I mean, the first one is, you got to get mad. Manifestos are amazing for channeling your anger. And which is where a lot of this started for me, because I'm just so fucking angry all the time about the state of the world and the state of the cynicism out there and the shitty people who are running things and the direction we're going in. And, like, it's just this sort of thing that's, like, bubbling in me all the time. And I have imaginary arguments with people that I don't even know in my head all the time. People that I agree with, you know what I mean? Even more even then, more so than with the people I hate. Like, I'm more angry at the people I agree with, but they say things the wrong way or they just, like, are annoying or, like, just anger. And manifestos are amazing for channeling anger and turning it into action.

[A]

Sometimes we'll be. So when I was a writer, a speechwriter, I would often, like, kind of procrastinate slash think about what I was writing. And I didn't realize, but I'd kind of walk around various government buildings kind of muttering to myself a little bit, which is sort of part of. I don't realize how much when I'm thinking, I'm, like, kind of moving my mouth. And now. Now my husband will be. We'll just be walking on the street or in the car, and they'll be like, who are you in argument with right now?

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, well, sometimes it's, like, just to admit. Sometimes it's such a crazy flight of Fancy. So, for example, they'll be like, oh, who are you arguing with? And I'll be like, oh, I'm not arguing. I'm actually on the witness stand explaining how that road rage incident led to an accident that wasn't my fault, but the judge doesn't believe me.

[E]

See, that sounds totally normal.

[A]

I think that's crazy. It is crazy. Do other people do that? Do your little. They go that far. Like, you're all of a sudden, like, all the way down the road, fully beyond, and now it's real, but you're so far, you get lost, right?

[E]

And you're like, wait, where the fuck am I? Why am I arguing with imaginary person number two? And I'm like, yeah, it's insane.

[A]

But see, sometimes I think, in part because of social media, in part because of my nature, that if I'm not careful, my ruminating over the little frustrations or big frustrations in the world, that I then find them and see them. And so I see a world. So every day I drive to work and someone cuts you off and someone lets you in. And I see a world of people cutting me off. I don't remember a world of people letting me in. Because my natural inclination and my proneness to thinking about the bad moments makes me think that's what the world is. And so is a manifesto. Really. Is the manifesto really one that you ought to be directing at Dan Tabursky?

[E]

Yes, this is my manifesto. This is my way of dealing with my anger. I'm angry. Yeah, but you seem angry, too. Like, you seem like an angry guy. I mean, I don't mean that.

[A]

I mean that in a.

[E]

As the biggest compliment I could give.

[A]

The way that I would say. I would say that I feel things deeply and briefly. I am often quite mad.

[E]

Deeply and briefly.

[A]

Deeply and quite briefly.

[E]

It's a great combination.

[A]

Yeah. No, no, yeah, it's great for my colleagues, but. No, but what else is on your manifesto? You wrote your points. What are things that are on your list?

[E]

I mean, it's about how to write the things I want to see in manifestos. Manifestos aren't just about anger. They're about having a vision for the future. Right? It's like saying this shit that's going on right now, it sucks. And we're going to change it. And here's how we're going to do it. And everybody, let's fucking go. And so some of them are really simple. Like, pretend you're an army, like the Unabomber used to sign his manifestos. Fc Meaning freedom Club. As if there was this big sort of network of people who agreed with Ted Kaczynski when it was just this guy.

[A]

Yeah. And I just, we're, you know, just take a moment to say that we hate the Unabomber and what he did.

[E]

Okay. No, I, I, I hate the Unabomber and what he did. Of course, obviously. But a lot of people think that some of the stuff that was in his manifesto of people are beyond, it was beyond the pale in the 90s to look at his manifesto as anything other than incredibly violent, violent and you for doing it and like, go to prison for the rest of your life. 30 years later you can look back on it and think, like, yeah, this person had some rage. And a lot of that rage was about technology and what it was doing to our society. Wasn't that crazy?

[A]

Well, so there's definitely been, there have been moments where people have, I think, what's the like kind of a, to get a rise out of people Reproduce parts of the Unabomber manifesto because people don't people think think of fairly. He's associated with his terrible crimes and, but actually there was like, you know, he had a, there was a critique in there. Now, I do not believe people. We should be. The fact that he gains this attention because he did these terrible things I think is a reason to be cautious about kind of whatever, holding these things up. And I know you're, I'm just sort of putting this on the context for the Internet, but, but like, to me, like, there's sort of, I think part of what we're talking about is distilling the like, you know, Martin Luther nailing the theses on the Wherever the worms or whatever the fuck. I don't remember. It was a long time ago. Thank you, Mrs. Kagan. AP European History I wonder if she's alive.

[E]

I mean, especially with mass shooters, like mass shooter manifestos. I don't really consider them manifestos at all. Even though people call them manifestos. You need a vision for the future, and mass shooters don't have it. Vision for the future. Nine times out of 10, it's the last thing they're ever going to do. And so what they're putting out is a cynical document to begin with. A manifesto should take that anger and turn it into action and use poetry and inspiration and move people to action. That's what a manifesto can be.

[A]

Common sense.

[E]

Yeah, that's an old one, sure. Yeah. Occupy Wall street started with a manifesto.

[A]

Most people don't know that and that that worked Out.

[E]

It didn't have 100%. It did not work out necessarily as planned, but it moved hundreds of thousands of people. Like, to send an email. The two activists sent an email to 90,000 followers saying, that's it. We're not gonna fucking do this anymore. September 17th, everybody go to Wall Street. We're just gonna sit down until somebody does something. And people showed up and they kept showing up and they kept showing up. And they really turned that anger ultimately into nothing. But, but, but long term, it really motivated a whole generation of people. You know, Bernie. We were just talking about Bernie Sanders. Like, like a lot of Bernie Sanders followers were motivated by Occupy Wall Street.

[A]

I also think it's a rep. Right? Like Occupy Wall street was a rep. Like it was people getting their reps of just doing a bit of activism that maybe they hadn't done before or seeing other people doing it. So I don't want to be too cynical about it because I remember finding it very cynical. Yeah, no, but I remember at the time feeling kind of like inspired by the fact that so many people were willing to kind of. Of just stake out that space.

[E]

Yes. But also disappointing because the manifesto didn't say, here's what we're going to do about it. It said, we're angry. We're going to go sit. And they could never agree on what the point was. They could never agree on what they actually wanted to have happen.

[A]

Here are some things from my manifesto. People should be more direct.

[E]

Okay.

[A]

I just, I'm sick of it. I feel like I pay a directness tax because I'm rude and you're not saying what you want. People, movies should have intermissions.

[E]

Because even 90 minute movies, I would

[A]

say any movie that's above one hour

[E]

and 50 minutes, even if you're watching it at home.

[A]

Well, I mean, you can keep. You don't need to. You can fast forward.

[E]

You're talking about going to the movies.

[A]

Yeah, I'm saying, when's the last time

[E]

you went to a movie?

[A]

The Odyssey.

[E]

Besides that.

[A]

Before that. I don't. I love the movie. Shut up. This is the problem. You said that. I was like the fucking nitpicking. Okay, here's my real. This is my big. My. This is. We should shift payroll taxes to income and corporate taxes. But. But we don't. Because companies. Because companies pay a tax for employing a person and get a deduction for hiring a robot. And I wish more people talked about this. Even though it's a giant change and hard to do because payroll taxes are A huge share of federal taxes, and it's how we fund social safety net programs and Medicare and Social Security. But it. The. Just because we get such a huge share of our revenue from payroll tax taxes doesn't mean we aren't wrong for not figuring out a way to change it over the long term. And one company that makes a billion dollars but has thousands of employees, I think we should collectively view as if, all else equal, better than a company that makes a billion dollars and employs five people in a world where we want people to be able to work and earn a living. And so perhaps our tax code should be fundamentally changed to address that. And nobody's doing it. And that's on my manifesto.

[E]

I think that's a great point in a manifesto. I think a little bit louder and a little bit shorter and like a little bit more. Like a little poetry in it.

[A]

We weren't looking for notes on it. No. And then finally, everyone dunks on Nepo babies. But if your goal is to become successful and have a family, your goal is to create Nepo babies. So in a sense, you hate the children in your own fantasy.

[B]

True.

[A]

You know.

[E]

Yeah. You're telling truths. You're telling truths.

[A]

I'm kidding. You should give me notes. I shouldn't have said that.

[E]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

I feel bad about that. See, this is my problem. I'm not a manifesto guy. I'm more of a.

[E]

I'm nervous to

[A]

say, try it out. Try it out.

[E]

Nah.

[A]

Sometimes. Here's the thing, though. I will say this. I'm brave when I'm mad. And that's, I think, the value sometimes of anger.

[E]

Yeah. I'm brave when I'm mad, too, actually. And I don't have any fear of physical. Of anybody hurting me. Like, you know, like people. You see people on the street, like, even though you know they're gonna get their ass kicked. Like, I feel like I'm one of those people.

[A]

I think that I would.

[E]

I'll just. I don't care.

[A]

Just hurt me, I think, like, I think my fear response. And we'll kick this. There's a kind of innate Ashkenazi. I'm the kind of. I'm the survivors of all the Jews that ran. You know, that'll kick in something kind of like sort of the meerkat energy of the Ashkenazi Jew. But thank you, Dan Tabursky. Dan Tabursky's manifesto is now available on audible and wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll be right back.

[B]

And we're back.

[A]

First of all, let's welcome Sarah and Adam back to the stage.

[C]

Hi.

[A]

Come on in. Come sit back down. Come sit back down. All right, great. Thank you all for being here. We've had a lot of fun tonight. We learned a lot, and I said a lot of things, some of which my producers think I should not have said. So it's time we look back on them in a segment we come call second thoughts. Here's how it works. The team has assembled a list of my flubs and whiffs from the evening, things they wish I had done different or better, and I'm going to run through them. If you have any second thoughts about this evening, whatever they may be, this would be a good opportunity to share them, and they're welcome because it's an opportunity for us all to just take a moment to reflect and things, but things we wish we had said a little differently or done a little better, because that's okay. We all make mistakes, you know, we all do. That's what I think. First, my impression of Trump as a toddler had a sort of Transylvania accent.

[C]

I can't even imagine Trump as a toddler because I feel like he still is. So I'd like.

[E]

Yeah, you don't have to imagine.

[C]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[A]

I promoted a conspiracy theory about Stevie Wonder faking being blind for money. I don't even know why the for money thing slipped in there, but I

[C]

think that's a very valid.

[B]

A lot of people. A lot of people believe that. Have you seen TikTok? A lot of people believe that.

[A]

Where he caught the mic stand, people, really? There's a video clip where he kind of catches a mic stand. It's like, what the fuck?

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[C]

I don't know. Maybe he's daredevil.

[B]

Mic stands make sounds.

[C]

Superhero.

[A]

Yeah, they do make sounds. This is such an important point. Adam Conover. Oh, this is from the Adam. The Adam portion of the show. I tried to reject your humanity to defend AI.

[B]

Oh, he got some strong opinions on the writing staff about AI. No, I regret I talked over you a little bit. I feel badly about.

[A]

But see, I don't think you should, because that's both of us. And that's how this was. There's no. It's as much. No. We're just a shared responsibility. We're told, you know, that's not. That's nothing to feel bad about. I describe driving while on coke as cool. Let's see. During the Sarah conversation, there was a brief point where we did some version of Al Qaeda. You gotta hand it to them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We'll probably come to regret that it was cut from the show, but it did happen.

[C]

And when you say you gotta hand it to them, you mean like a severed hand that's been cut off? Right. That's what you. Yeah, you should add that twice. Give me a hand for that.

[A]

I imply that I'm a better roast writer than the ones I'm watching on Netflix. I just sort of. Just sort of casually said I'm writing better jokes in my head than what I'm seeing on the screen. But isn't that every writer?

[C]

I think when we watch the roast, we all put ourselves in there and we go, oh, this is what I would have said. I do wish that I would have said that. I. My biggest complaint about the roast, even though I'm a huge fan and I will consume all of them and I want to be a part of all of them and have a job on all of them, is that the roast used to be really personal, and now it feels like they're less personal, but their jokes are getting personal. Does that make sense?

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

No, I know what you mean. Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't feel like they know each other, but the jokes are meaner.

[C]

Yeah. They're more targeted. As if.

[B]

Also, you're not funnier than those writers. I know a bunch of those writers. They're great writers. You're funnier than the comics, John. The comics are the ones. They're doing the jokes bad. They're picking the wrong jokes. One of them is Tony Hinchcliffe. You know, you're better than them. The writers are great.

[A]

That's such an important point, and I agree.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You. Let's see. Oh. With Dan struggling to accept that my Richard Simmons weight gain theory is incorrect, I simply don't. I can't take the facts. I simply believe that that's what the answer is.

[E]

I think that's okay if you believe that. I don't think he's dead.

[A]

So whatever led me to need to specify that I hate the Unabomber?

[E]

I don't know. You were really like.

[A]

I just.

[E]

I listen 30 years ago, like, no, here's a thing that you think that you love the Unabomber.

[A]

Oh, sweet, sweet, sweet Dan in the. In his podcast.

[B]

Didn't we all kind of love the Unabomber?

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

He was on TV every night, you know? And O.J. we all loved O.J.

[A]

we loved following the story.

[B]

It was the 90s.

[C]

I bought the hoodie. I was excited.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People who I'm not going down for this statement. Hate the Unabombered. And Ted Kaczynski with that dead eyed stare in that little fucked up cabin in the woods. Yeah, I was gonna Blowing up people.

[C]

I think we all dreamed of having a cabin in the woods and just getting away.

[A]

Made packages. Scary.

[B]

He seemed like the only happy guy in America.

[A]

Yeah, he looked nothing like that drawing. He must have been so fucking thrilled when he saw that drawing. He's like, I'm free forever.

[B]

You know who really, you know who really hated working from home was Ted Kaczynski. Oh, yeah, don't come for me. I, the work from home. It's very. Don't. No one should take away. You should be able to work from home. I just want to. That's what I regret. People are so emotional about.

[A]

Look at you arguing with it. Look at you, Adam Kahn, over arguing with the comments section. Yeah, Adam, Adam, Adam. You're not mad. You're not mad at people understanding you. You're mad. You're arguing with people that are choosing not to understand.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

So how are you going to argue with them successfully if their purpose is to not understand what you're saying?

[C]

I will say too that I agreed with you so people can come me, but I, and I like, I enjoy working from home when I'm working on shows like, you know, like that are not comedies. But when I'm writing in a comedy room, I want to be with other comedians because that's when you like kind of think of things getting just in conversation. Like you'll be making fun of someone else's joke and that will lead to a story and then that will lead to a new joke.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Which you can't get at home.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's such an important point. And I also do want to say

[C]

he wasn't even listening.

[A]

Yes, I was. Yes, I, I, I was listening.

[C]

He's like every one of my bosses.

[A]

Your point was that everyone out there

[B]

who had a shitty office, you should get to work from home.

[C]

You should get to work from home.

[B]

But also you should go outside sometimes and make sure you remind yourself to do.

[A]

Yeah. Such an important point, Adam. The good things are good and the bad things are bad. People should get to do the good things. Sometimes going to the office sucks, but that doesn't mean on the whole we don't benefit from having an office to go go to. Comedy sucks when people are doing it from home. It's so much better if people are in a room together getting to riff and you won't know it's a dog that doesn't bark. The zoom rooms, they're grueling for people, but you don't know the work that was never produced, the things that never happened. It's not just this idea that, like, I feel like there was this idea that people want to go to the office because there's something magical and sort of kismet that happens around the water cooler kind of diminishing. And it's like it's somewhere in between happenstance and like something mystical and just the value of people and what people do when they're together, you know, And I don't think I feel like it shouldn't be diminished. And I agree with you. And that's all I want to say about that. And finally, I'm sorry for speculating about whether or not my AP European history teacher is dead and if Mrs. Kagan, you were great. And that's our show. That's our show. Thank you so much to Adam Conover, Sarah Tiana and Dan tabersky. There are 88 days until the midterms and we'll be back next week with Lauren Wiedman and Lisa Traeger. Have a great weekend. Love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante and me, John Lovett. Our production team includes Hallie Kiefer, Sarah Lazarus, Rahman Borsalino, Peter Miller, David Toles, Claudia Shang, Jay Banks, Gavin Purcell and Matt De Grove. And our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America.

[D]

Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in the middle of the crossfire. From disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein fans, victims themselves, to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the POD subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe [e-mail] backslash friends.