Pete Hegseth (6:00)

Surprise that a bunch of a few leakers get fired and suddenly a bunch of hit pieces come out from the same media that peddled the Russia hopes won't give back their Pulitzers. They got Pulitzers for A bunch of lies. See, this is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees, and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations.

John Lovett (6:23)

Not gonna work with me. All right, Pete Hegseth. Yeah. You can't use this second example of mishandling classified information to detract from my sterling reputation as a twice divorced, abusive, hard Dr. Weekend Fox News anchor who ran two veterans organizations into the ground. You won't take my name because it is my name, because I cannot have another in my life. Daniel Day Lewis in the Crucible. All right. The Pentagon's former chief spokesman, John Ulliott, who quit last weekend and is not anonymous, wrote in a Sunday Politico op ed that under his self described friend, Pete Hegseth, friends like these, the Pentagon had seen a month of total chaos, suggesting Trump replaced this bizarro secretary Pete, and fast. Earlier this week, Politico also published a report on the bitter feuds that have quickly formed within Hegsett's inner circle. There's one specific anecdote I'd like to share from that piece, apparently. Well, at a high level meeting. This is real and genuine reporting. Joe Casper, Hegsest's outgoing chief of staff, asked his fellow attendees, can I just tell everyone around this table that I just took an enormous shit right before coming in here? And the stall was fresh out of Pentagon papers. You catch my meaning? This is real, according to one of the two people who confirmed the story to Politico. People were like, what? This is a business meeting, but how else are you supposed to start a meeting in the Situation Room? I want you to know something. I cut that joke. And then the author of that joke said, what happened in the shituation room? And I said, I cut it. And she said, I think you should put it back in. And I did on her behalf. That writer, Sarah Lazarus, her mother is in this audience. And I hope you're feeling proud. Anyway, this would be a crazy energy for me to bring to a work meeting. And my meetings are about whether Debra Messing would be down to play a game called would you fuck this Jewish holiday? Look, we all want to tell our colleagues about our poops, but we show restraint. We keep it profesh. You save that for the one friend, the friend with whom you talk about your poops. And there's two kinds of people in this audience. People who know what I'm talking about and fucking puritan freaks. Applaud if you have that friend. Applaud if you never talk about your poops. Yeah, applaud if you're a fucking liar. Kasba reportedly denied the story about his big work dump, claiming it was a joke taken out of context. Yeah, man, totally. It's a real smear campaign. Also, I'm sorry to say, according to military experts, whoever denied it, in fact supplied it. White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, no relation, defended Hegseth. The President stands strongly behind Secretary Hegseth.

Jen Psaki (10:29)

Who is doing a phenomenal job leading the Pentagon. And this is what happens when the entire Pentagon is working against you and working against the monumental change that you are trying to implement.

John Lovett (10:41)

Sorry, you may not have been following that argument. The entire military hates him, and that's good. The entire Pentagon is against him. Complimentary, but the entire Pentagon is against him. Derogatory. How is that an argument for him? No, you don't understand. The entire fucking Pentagon hates the Secretary of Defense, which is good. Yeah, we like it. The story renewed calls for Hegseth to be fired from Democrats. And as of this recording, one lone House Republican, Hegseth, seemingly growing desperate and paranoid, said he'd investigate leaks on Fox and Friends.

Pete Hegseth (11:29)

When that evidence is gathered sufficiently, and.

John Lovett (11:31)

This has all happened very quickly, it will be handed over to doj, and those people will be prosecuted if necessary. The public threats against my subordinates will continue until morale improves. And speaking of public threats, on Thursday, Trump announced that he would sit down for an interview with journalists, including Signal group chat member Jeffrey Goldberg. Actually, Jeff was one of the first guests on this show when we came to D.C. eight years ago. Feeling nostalgic. What is it like to be in one awful moment nostalgic for a previous, slightly less awful moment? Germans probably have a word for it. Jeffrey Goldberg is either having the professional year of his life, or this is how they lure him onto the plane to El Salvador. Either way, good luck. Jeff wrote Trump on True Social. Later today, I will be meeting with, of all people, Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor of the Atlantic and the person responsible for many fictional stories about me, including the made up hoax on suckers and losers and Signalgate, something he was somewhat more successful with. Fuck, that's funny. That's funny. What an incredible way to introduce someone. Imagine I say, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest, Ro Khanna, of all people. It's just a funny and insulting way to welcome someone. For those of you who don't Remember, back in 2020, Goldberg wrote the story reporting that Trump called Americans who died at war suckers and losers. Which is crazy, because that just doesn't sound like him. Trump continued. I am doing this interview out of curiosity and as a competition with myself just, just to see if it's possible for the Atlantic to be truthful. What a beautiful message. We are all only in competition with ourselves. As Trump often says, comparison is the thief of joy. So wise, our big wise boy. The literal and figurative shit stirring hasn't been contained to the Pentagon Ketamine Cautionary tale Elon Musk and history's worst gay treasury secretary Scott Besant, were reportedly shouting at each other about IRS leadership in the West Wing last week. I mean, whatever, wake me up when Elon bites someone. That's what I need to hear now. But what pushed genteel homosexual Scott Besant over the edge? Sources told Axios it's because he, quote, can't stand Musk, and that while he's largely kept his cool, he has his limits and he can roar. God, Katy Perry, not now. She can't read the room anymore. Musk has said he'll be stepping back from Doge. And when asked about Musk on Wednesday, Trump spoke of his accomplishments in the past tense.

Pete Hegseth (14:32)

But he's a brilliant guy and he was a tremendous help both in the campaign and in what he's done with Doge.

John Lovett (14:40)

One day you're doing the Nazi salute, the next day you're getting the Nazi boot. It's a tough town, tough town. That's politics. It makes sense that there's tension. Conflicting and confusing White House messages have caused turmoil and panic in global markets. Trump said that the US And China were actively negotiating a trade deal. But Scott Besson apparently told a group of reporters on Thursday morning that China and the US Are not even speaking yet. We're not even in the talking stage. We're never gonna fuck at this rate. And after the CEOs of Target, Walmart and Home Depot, the gay, straight and lesbian of big box retailers, privately warned Trump that his tariffs could disrupt supply chains and leave store shelves bare. The president said Tuesday that he'd be willing to substantially bring down his 145% tariff on China. So now the waiting game with China continues. Famously, a country you want to try to wait out. Look, we have leverage. China has leverage. We have power. China has power. But you can't wait them out. Have you read a book? Have you seen how long their dynasties are? We have many strengths as a country, but patience and discipline are not high on the list. And that's true when our president isn't one of those kids that eats the marshmallow the moment the scientist puts it down. Trump ate the marshmallow before he even heard about the possibility of a second marshmallow. And, of course, the administration's nonstop chaos and cruelty in our immigration system continues. This week, four House Democrats travel to El Salvador. Georgia advocate for Kilmar Abrego Garcia's release from cecot. And this just in. Next week, four more House Democrats will head to El Salvatore to try and free them. Detained Colombia protester and legal permanent resident Mahmoud Khalil missed the birth of his first child after ICE denied a request for his temporary release, even though he had not been charged with a crime. The only difference between Mahmoud Khalil and fellow legal immigrant Elon Musk is that Musk misses his children's births on purpose. Democratic lawmakers went to Louisiana to visit Khalil and Rameza Ozturk, a student who was detained after writing an op ed critical of the war in Gaza in a college newspaper. This even had MAGA acolyte Charlie Kirk feeling conflicted. We run a little bit of a.

Pete Hegseth (17:15)

Problem if we are going to say.

John Lovett (17:18)

That the criteria to get your visa revoked is writing an op ed. Don't dare. Don't. Put those hands down. Put those. Fuck you. Be a fucking more expensive date. Unbelievable. Charlie Kirk, welcome to the resistance. Everybody who started applauding, I want you to think about what you did. Last month, the Trump administration ended part of a $200 million contract that funded attorneys for unaccompanied migrant children. As a result, an increasing number of children and Todd representing themselves in immigration court. And don't tell them I said this, but they fucking suck at it. Without lawyers, the children are more likely to be deported to the Salvadoran prison for children C taught. Yeah. Boo it. Boo it. Boo it. Boo it. It's a dark time. All the chaos and mismanagement has caused Trump's disapproval rating to climb to 59%. His numbers, yes. His numbers on immigration, once his strongest issue, have plummeted. In a recent poll, Americans said almost 2 to 1 that Abrego Garcia should be returned. Only about a quarter believe the Trump administration's claim that he's in Ms. 13, which isn't too many more than the share of Americans who believe that the COVID vaccine was a scheme to install trackers in our arms. And let's face it, a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram. Trump has even lost ground with the boys. According to new polling out of Harvard, 59% of young men said they disapprove of Trump's job performance as well. But Trump is still doing Incredible numbers. If you restrict the polling to young men who are currently doing a mass shoot. I've said this before, I'll say it again. I am not gonna meet you. You are gonna meet me. Doesn't have to be today. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem's bag was stolen from Capitol Burger. What are you applauding? What is that? What is that? She had to file a police report. She was having dinner with her family. Authorities have asked the public to be on the lookout for a bag made from between 100 and 102 Dalmatians. The bag contained Noem's passport, DHS access badge, apartment keys, medication, and $3,000 in cash. Also, a little box marked dog bullets. It's troubling. Asked why Noam had so much cash in her purse, a DHS spokesman said her entire family was in town, including her children and grandchildren. She was using the withdrawal to treat her family to dinner, activities and Easter gifts. What kind of activities? Freebasing. $3,000 in cash. Come on, kids. Parking lot. Nitrous on grandma. Go nuts. He has risen. But one person who hasn't risen is the Pope. Yet. Yet. Gotta be tough to do what I do to say these things. Pope Francis died on Monday at age 88. Niagara officials say the barrel and GoPro were found not far from the Falls basin, but still no sign of the Pope's body. In fact, the Pope died doing what he loved, ripping self professed Christian politicians a new one for failing to actually live up to the precepts of Christianity. On Easter Sunday, the day before his death, the Pope met with Vice President Just dug the Pope's grave Vance at the Vatican, said Pope Francis. That's it. It's a real picture, said Pope Francis. Hey, I asked for the angel of death, not the angel of pit sweat. Later that day, in his Easter speech, the Pope said how much contempt is stirred up at times toward the vulnerable, the marginalized and migrants. Continued the Pope also, he's hard to talk to. After a brief silence, he asked if I liked working here. On Monday, Trump spoke from the White House to honor the late pontiff while flanked by Melania and of course, the Easter bunny.

Pete Hegseth (23:00)

I just signed an executive order putting the flags of our country, all of.

John Lovett (23:05)

Them, all federal flags and state flags.

Pete Hegseth (23:08)

At half mast in honor of Pope Francis. So he was a good man, worked hard, he loved the world, and it's an honor to do that.

John Lovett (23:29)

What is more fantastical? A magical bunny the size of a person that gives little children treats, or that Donald Trump has a wife Just feels more plausible. Look, we have bigger fish to fry. I know this, but a, there are 1.4 billion Catholics on Earth. Get the fucking Easter Bunny off the balcony. B, it's half staff. Masts are on boats. Does he think he's on a boat? It would explain why he always stands like. And C, no, you don't order state flags to fly at half staff. You can't do that. Your order doesn't do that because it's copied and pasted from the text in previous orders. And you don't control what happens on private or state property. He can't help but do a tiny bit of fascism during the death of the fucking Pope. I'm doing fine. Finally. Speaking of feeling like someone is shooting lasers in my eyes, scientists claim they have discovered a new never before seen color by shooting lasers at people's eyes. Scientists say the color, which they call olo, resembles a very saturated shade of neon aqua. Sort of like this color. The handful of test subjects who were lucky enough to see the new color describe it as. Please stop. I see it. I see it. Please. I am a pilot. My eyes are my livelihood, said another test subject. It was the most beautiful color I've ever seen. I'm so glad I saw it before completely going blind forever. Maybe some of this science should be shut down. When we come back, Congressman Ro. Khanna, Kate, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. Love it or Leave it brought to you by Aura Frames. The number one thing your mom wants from you is to call her this Mother's Day. You can give her a call, of course, and give her an Aura digital picture frame, add unlimited photos and videos, and invite as many people as you want to A Frame. There are absolutely no hidden fees or subscriptions. It takes about two minutes to set up a frame using the Aura app. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag, so they can skip the wrapping paper. Upload videos up to 30 seconds long, and your favorite live iPhone photos will play right on the frame. The embedded speaker can play audio on demand, so you can load up a bunch of pictures and then add deeply troubling audio. You know, I like that fun prank. The sound of someone knocking on the door. Because, look, watch this. Hello? One time you don't bark. The one time I set you up for a bit, you're talking to me. No, pundit, pundit. Unbelievable. Aura Frames was named the best digital photo frame by Wirecutter and featured in 495 gift guides last year. So the next time you need to call your mom, you can also send her a new pic of you from that trip you're telling her all about right from your phone or has a great deal for Mother's Day. When is Mother's Day? When is Mother's Day? Not the sun. No, it's in May. We have a cut. We have a couple weeks. All right, we have a couple. When's Father's Day? June. For a limited time. Listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get 35 off plus free shipping on their best selling Carver mat frame. That's a U R A Frames promo code. Love it. Support this show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Pete Hegseth (27:21)

This is Roundup Dual Action weed and Grass Killer products. This stuff doesn't just kill existing weeds to the root. It prevents new weeds from appearing for up to four months, from the first days of spring to the fourth day of July. From swimsuits to sweater weather, from sand castles to spooky season. That's up to 120 days of days.

John Lovett (27:40)

Guaranteed or your money back.

Pete Hegseth (27:42)

Roundup Dual Action Weed and Grass Killer products. This stuff works. Always read and follow pesticide label directions. Not all products are registered for use in all states and may be subject to use restrictions.

John Lovett (27:58)

And we're back. Congress is currently on a two week break, but my next guest never quits. It's California's own Congressman Ro Khanna. Good to see you. Thanks for being here. Hi, Congressman.

Pete Hegseth (28:17)

That was a pretty good monologue.

John Lovett (28:19)

It was pretty good. Thanks for saying that.

Pete Hegseth (28:21)

Gets better and better.

John Lovett (28:22)

Yeah, it sure does. It sure does. All right. You gave. I wasn't. I wanted to talk to you about a variety of things, but when I saw this speech you gave@yale 2 weeks ago @ your alma mater, Yale Law School, a school where I was wait listed.

Pete Hegseth (28:41)

Williams isn't that bad.

John Lovett (28:43)

Well, I also was wait listed at Yale for undergrad and then again.

Pete Hegseth (28:47)

And there are not many Williams grads doing crazy stuff in the Trump administration. So you have that going for you.

John Lovett (28:52)

Well, actually, I can't. We can talk about it after. But you gave this powerful speech and it struck me because it didn't sound like a political speech we would hear today. It sounded like you were reaching for something bigger. You said today, great anger grips the public. From this disquiet rises, not a call to reform, but to dismantle, to cast off the judges in their robes, the scholars in their gowns. And the press with its inconvenient questions. It stirred my speechwriter's heart. I used to have a serious job. What was the goal of the speech?

Pete Hegseth (29:25)

The goal of the speech was to show how dangerous the thinking is of what Vance and Trump are saying. I mean, it may sound glib for them to call universities the enemy, but this is the rhetoric that was used in the Chinese Cultural Revolution to go after intellectuals. This is the rhetoric used by authoritarians in Stalin's time to go after intellectuals. And the university is the place of freedom of thought, freedom of ideas, alternatives. And so it was to put that in context, and then it was to put into context how dangerous it is for them to be talking about going after the courts, defying the courts. And one of my favorite speeches, Lincoln's Lyceum address, which I quote extensively in there. I mean, Lincoln is grappling with this huge issue about how do you make change at the time of the Civil War? And even he says, you don't just reject the entire judiciary. You fight for equality through a constitutional system.

John Lovett (30:29)

And it seems like one of the goals of the speech is to take on the specific way in which JD Vance, and is what I would describe as being an intellectual Zamboni for Trump, sort of coming behind him and sort of smoothing out, making it make sense.

Pete Hegseth (30:50)

Trying his best.

John Lovett (30:51)

Trying his best. But you see him really committed to that project. You two went back and forth on social media where he was trying to do this. It culminated in him expressing himself, I think, very thoughtfully, by saying about Congressman Khanna, quote, you disgust me.

Pete Hegseth (31:08)

Called me whiny, too.

John Lovett (31:09)

He called you whiny. Here's what you said in the speech in a more serious way in response to Vance, that Vance is as likely to destroy the life of an innocent man as he is to punish the guilty, and he does not seem to care. J.D. vance, your cold indifference to the lives of vulnerable immigrants mocks every principle that this law school was built to uphold. Your affiliation with this law school is now a stain on the degree of every Yale graduate. I hope Yali's alumni, student, faculty, and administrators will have the moral clarity to say so plainly. Nice. So you're hoping they'll say so plainly. We've seen Columbia fail to stand up. We found it was very heartening to see that Harvard decided to stand up. But then we learned last week that they were in negotiations with the administration, and we don't know what was going to come of that. But it wasn't until they received that letter that they decided to go public. What did you hear from administrators on that campus. What are you hearing about this effort to kind of give these universities a little bit of confidence?

Pete Hegseth (32:23)

Well, President Garber, I thought, showed a lot of courage. I mean, from Harvard before that, the question is, you know, what are they reluctant to fight about? Right? I mean, it's the endowment. And look, in fairness, University presidents, if you talk to them, the last thing they want is to have the endowment less than when they took office. That's kind of their metric.

John Lovett (32:44)

So sad.

Pete Hegseth (32:46)

And, and what a hard problem, you know, but. But you have $50 billion, you can take some risks for the very principle of freedom of thought and freedom of expression. And by the way, there are probably a lot of people who are going to give you money for standing up for that. So it may not actually hurt your bottom line. But you look at Kingman Brewster, you look at James, he was at Yale when he stood up for freedom of speech during the Vietnam protests. You look at James Conant, who was at Harvard and stood up during McCarthyism. You look at Robert Hutchins, who stood up for freedom of thought at University of Chicago. I mean, there was a time where the people, the university presidents, people nerds like me remember, are not based on the endowments, they're based on them standing up for the freedom of thought. And you know what's so sad about Vance? There are two things. One is the rank hypocrisy, right? I call them gatekeepers of privilege. They went to these schools, they will do anything, I guarantee you, for having their kids and their go to these schools. And yet they attack these schools at a total false populism, right? It's good for me. But no one else, you know, everyone else is. You don't, you don't want to be affiliated with these universities. And they're attacking. I mean, if there's one thing that America should be proud of, it's our universities, from Rutgers to Princeton, from Yale to Ohio State. And they're attacking this. I mean, it, it is just, you know, it's not incompetence like your monologue. It's like if you had people. No, no. Yeah. I mean, wow.

John Lovett (34:26)

Wow. Okay. All right. You can unlock a different version of me if you'd like.

Pete Hegseth (34:33)

It's where it's self destruction. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's a.

John Lovett (34:37)

It's.

Pete Hegseth (34:37)

It's like if you wanted to, like, destroy stuff, not just. I mean, if they were incompetent, it's one thing. It's like they want to destroy every possible thing that's working right.

John Lovett (34:48)

If you couldn't come up with a better plan to undermine America from the inside than to make international students terrified of coming to our school, of making our schools which have invited so much. I mean, you represent Silicon Valley. Like how much of the wealth in Silicon Valley has been generated by people coming to this country to study, then staying and sort of lending their brilliance to our country. It does seem as though part of what they felt. This is, I think, what one of Trump's sort of aspects of his feral genius is. He sees weakness. And one of the weakness, I think is the delta between the highfalutin morals of these places and the actual day to day administration of these places and the places where they don't uphold liberal values, where they do look the other way when there are genuine ethical problems with how they're being run, with the way people are saddled with debt, with the fact that these schools, that prestige is a limited resource and there's more and more students and no more spaces. And it makes me worry. I think one of the reasons maybe you felt you need to give this speech is we can't be sure that the kinds of people that are in the leadership at these schools now, schools built on bureaucracy, consensus, never been tested, are going to be the people that understand that this is a moment where they need to fight.

Pete Hegseth (36:03)

I think that's very well said. I mean, I see you were a speechwriter.

John Lovett (36:10)

I had a serious job once, believe it or not.

Pete Hegseth (36:13)

But I think you're absolutely right. I mean, this is a time that people are being tested about, is it just about the Prestige and the U.S. news rankings, or are you actually gonna stand up for values? And are you gonna stand up for freedom of thought and be willing to reform? Cause some of the critiques about universities needing to do better, to have a diversity of political perspectives and thought, that's fine. But the answer to that is not to just tear everything down with rage. And that's why my view is that the response to Trumpism. I mean, I think David Brooks has this great point. He says he asks the right questions. He just says all the wrong answers. Doesn't mean that we don't ask those questions. He's identifying problems in our society and then the question is, how are we going to respond to them?

John Lovett (37:05)

So you've described establishment Democrats as stale. And you told a Bakersfield town hall, that's what you said, that when it comes to Democrats, the old guard isn't cutting it. And you backstage gave me a list of seven names. Can you Just say the seven worst Democrats that you told me about backstage. The ones you think just gotta go.

Pete Hegseth (37:29)

Well, look, I think I give Dick Durbin a lot of credit, right? I mean, Harry is someone who has had a distinguished career gracefully moving aside for a new generation. And I think you're gonna have a new generation of people across the country of different ideologies come out and have new ideas. Do I think, you know, I mean, we. I don't want to go through that. I will say Schumer, I think, really disappointed a lot of people. I mean, that's. And didn't rise. Rise up to the moment. He was a phenomenally talented majority leader during Biden. Like, he's really good at getting legislation done, but he's not meeting the moment right now in terms of what it's going to take to offer an alternative.

John Lovett (38:18)

So let's talk about the moment. You outlined basically a series of steps that you thought Democrats could take right now. This was about challenging 30 Republicans that we can beat. This was also about stopping this reconciliation. Bill, I'm curious, where are we right now in the effort to get three House Republicans to say no to the Trump reconciliation?

Pete Hegseth (38:45)

I feel much more confident today than if we were having this conversation a month ago. And the reason is because of things like Cory Booker speech, because of Chris Murphy, because of AOC and Bernie Sanders, because of the town halls. There's a lot of energy out there. And so you asked specifically Bakersfield. I went there. I did a town hall. A thousand people showed up, right? And I don't have that. I'm not a household name like Bernie or ALC or Booker. The only time I'd been to Bakersfield was for good Indian food, right?

John Lovett (39:19)

I show up and that joke kills in California.

Pete Hegseth (39:25)

And look, David Valdez, two thirds Medicaid patients are in his constituency. And then Bernie goes there, AOC goes there, Jimmy Gomez goes there. And just two days ago, David Valdeo suddenly finds religion, and he says, well, along with 11 Republicans, I'm not going to vote for any Medicaid cuts. So the organizing is having an impact. And the second thing that's having an impact, other than these awful cuts for tax breaks, is that they're literally destroying the economy. I'll tell you, the average Silicon Valley text I've gotten from people who voted for Trump, you know, something like, Goo.

John Lovett (40:02)

Goo Gaga, I'm a big stupid baby.

Pete Hegseth (40:05)

Well, I'll summarize it this way. This. It's like, in this country, for whatever reason, you can commit crimes and we'll forgive you. You can have affairs, people will forgive you. You can do an insurrection, we'll forgive you. But you can't go after people's money. You can't go after people's money. And so these people are like, well, I thought I'd be making more money under Trump. I guess that's not true. Well, yeah, no. When you go after the courts and you threaten to fire Jerome Powell and you have irrational tariffs, that was predictable. But now you suddenly have people who have lost losing confidence in him. Now, they're reluctant to say so because they think he's going to have retribution. But this is where we need to find the courage. I mean, if you're having doubts, speak up. And this is the time I think that the pendulum can swing back and people are really waking up at his incompetence.

John Lovett (41:01)

So as somebody, you have unflagging energy and boundless tanks. We don't have enough time to have you weigh in on everything. You'll have to get your own podcast for that. But we do want to get your politician.

Pete Hegseth (41:15)

Podcasts are the most boring thing. I know some people have tried. I mean, why would you want a politician who, like, 70% of the time is thinking, are they going to say something that gets them into trouble? Not me, but on a podcast, it's just, go on other people's podcasts, Save, say, don't do your own podcast. That's my view. Maybe I'll be like, a dinosaur. Everyone will have their podcasts. I'm not having a podcast.

John Lovett (41:36)

No. Yeah, that's smart. Well, it just seems like if your goal is to get in front of people that aren't familiar with you, anyone who's downloaded your podcast, as a politician, you've already, in some sense, gotten. So you need to go elsewhere. So stop doing the podcast.

Pete Hegseth (41:53)

You know, I'm also, like, philosophically opposed. You know, there are all these technology things. You've got to control the medium. You need to talk to your followers. You need to have the ability to communicate in a way that isn't filtered by the media. No, that's not democracy. Like, the whole point is you should be filtered, you should be questioned, you should be challenged. You should be talking to people different than yourself. So, you know, just because Donald Trump has the model of truth, social, like, he is destroying democracy, this isn't to be imitated. It is to be rejected for alternative models.

John Lovett (42:27)

Yeah. And on that note, we do want to get your quick thoughts on a few pieces of news in a segment we're calling the More youe Row. All right, I'm going to give you a topic. In return, you give us your gut reaction. First up, the Pentagon is in chaos, and only one Republican. As of this recording, Don Bacon has called for Pete Hegseth's resignation. It's a fucking joke. Thoughts?

Pete Hegseth (42:54)

Don Bacon is the chair of the Armed Services Committee for Citi, and I'm on the ranking member, and I'm really proud that he's actually had the guts to do that. By the way, he's the only general. Highest ranking general in Congress, and so he understands the stakes. But the fact that you don't have every National Security Republican out there calling for his resignation just shows. I mean, like, they're. They don't understand they're losing their two things. There used to be the. They. They never were good on. Like, we care about people, poor people, and we want to build inclusion. Their whole thing was like, we know how to make you money and we know how to keep you safe. And they're. Well, now they don't know how to keep us safe because they're leaking war plans and they don't know how to make us money. Like, I think. I think their party's in a lot of trouble.

John Lovett (43:45)

I'll be honest and say that I am surprised by just how low Marco Rubio has gone. I am. I never have been a fan. He's always been very small, which allows you to get lower under things and so forth between floorboards. But have you been surprised by how willing he has been to go along with this disgraceful, lawless crackdown on legal immigrants?

Pete Hegseth (44:10)

You know what I've been surprised by? There's not more ambition in the Republican Party. I used to criticize Joe Biden. I mean, Psaki on all the time. I mean, and you did it partly out of belief, but, like, if you're a Republican, you know, I was cheering when Ted Cruz was like, I oppose the tariffs. And I'm thinking, okay, Ted Cruz is thinking because he's such a calculating guy that maybe he can run for the nomination against JD Vance when these terrorists don't work out. And I was like, where is the ambition? Like, let's get a little more ambition in the Republican Party. So there are 15 people positioning themselves to run as opposed to just totally kissing up to Donald Trump, who's going to be a failed president. It's not the lack of courage, it's the stupidity that is bewildering.

John Lovett (45:03)

J.D. vance met with the Pope. What's with the Pope? Died shortly after meeting with him. Coincidence. You're not on your platform. Deal with it.

Pete Hegseth (45:25)

Can't catch, you know, can't catch a break. I don't know. I mean, maybe. Maybe he'll find religion. I don't know.

John Lovett (45:30)

Oh, I just, I have to say, if. I don't know, like, if I was a deeply Christian Catholic and I met with the Pope, he scolded me and then died, I'd be. I'd think about it. I'd think about some of my ideas in the shower, at least. On Sunday, the President handed out Trump collectible trading cards to the children gathered at the White House lawn. Here he is showing an adorable child a card with his butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt on it. Roe, are you going to collect them all?

Pete Hegseth (46:09)

I don't even know what to say. Just unbelievable. With kids, too.

John Lovett (46:18)

Trump is hosting a dinner for his biggest meme, coin investors have dinner with President Trump and the dollar sign Trump community. The invitation said, according to the Times, let the President know how many Trump coins you own. Extraordinary corruption just out in the open.

Pete Hegseth (46:35)

And I know, I know, like, people are like, oh, this is this Bitcoin or NFT things. No, this is not like some complicated technical issue. Let me just explain very simply what he's doing. It's like opening up a Swiss bank account where no one else knows whether someone's depositing money, which is basically this coin, and telling people, okay, come deposit money for me. Buy my coin. That's what's going on. Like, if you're the Prime Minister of some other country or head of state, you'll be like, well, let's just buy some of this Trump coin, and when we meet him, we'll show it to him and no one else will know. And it's really just the most blatant corruption. It's unbelievable to me that you don't. Haven't had anyone speaking out about it. And he's. And it's all garbled with all this techno babble. That means nothing. It's just pure corruption.

John Lovett (47:25)

Yeah. So what do we do, you think? How do we stop it?

Pete Hegseth (47:34)

Well, we stop it first by speaking out. Look, I get that people are upset with members of Congress and Senators saying we haven't done enough. And I also get that for the first month collectively, we should have, you know, it took us a while to find our, our voice. I do think we're finding it. But this country, you know, we don't have congressional sovereignty in this country. We don't have executive sovereignty. We don't have judicial sovereignty. We have something called Popular sovereignty. That means it's not just 212 House members and 47 senators. It's our law firms, it's our universities, it's banks, it's technology leaders, it's people. We all need to start to speak up. And there are too many people in this country who are afraid. And they're afraid and they're thinking. He's at 45%. Democrats are going to win back the House. Democrats will win back the presidency. Let's just keep quiet. Let's not have him go after us. Let's keep making our 6 million per year partner profits and let's just ride out these four years. That's what's going on. So you can blame members of Congress. And I agree we got to step up our game. But so does every American citizen who's concerned about democracy.

John Lovett (48:44)

That's a great place to leave it. Congressman Khanna, thank you so much. You'll be back for the rat wheel?

Eugene Daniels (48:49)

Yeah.

John Lovett (48:50)

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Pete Hegseth (52:27)

Hi.

John Lovett (52:27)

Okay. All right. Raise your Hand if you're a federal worker. Oh, here we go. I'm coming over. I'll come right here. Let me go here first. West Virginia Republican senator sent a letter to RFK Jr. Monday begging him to undo cuts to the agency that support coal miner health, along with a gorgeous basket of dead canaries. Nice. Nice. Who's up? Hi. I'm coming in. I'm coming in. Hi. Much of the CDC's injury and violence Prevention Department was just cut, including teams responsible for tracking car crashes, head injuries and drowning.

Pete Hegseth (53:05)

Not the first Kennedy to try and.

John Lovett (53:07)

Hide car crashes and drownings.

Jen Psaki (53:09)

Hey, rfk.

John Lovett (53:10)

I'll come back. You want to do the next line? Here? Do the next line. Hey, RFK junior Chap. Acquit it. Chop aquiddick. Here, you can do what's called in the business a tag.

Pete Hegseth (53:29)

And all in the name of budget cuts.

John Lovett (53:31)

More like cheap.

Jen Psaki (53:32)

Aquiddick.

John Lovett (53:33)

Nice. Yeah. Hell, yeah. Who's up next? Hi. All right, said the head of one nonprofit about RFK Jr. S cuts. We will not know what is killing us. And that is very scary, but also pretty obvious what's killing people. It's J.D. vance. Nice. I'm gonna come. I gotta come. I'm coming over there. Oh. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. The FDA is reportedly planning to end most of its routine food safety inspections, outsourcing the work to state and local governments.

Jen Psaki (54:05)

It makes me think the Book of the Jungle by Upton Sinclair, because I just found a copy inside the cavity of my Costco chicken.

John Lovett (54:14)

What a strange thing to find in a Costco chicken. I'm coming through. I'm coming through. I'm coming through. Hi. Hi. Hi. Who's over here? Oh, I need a Jewish federal worker. It's not a trap. You're Jewish. Jewish federal worker. All right. On Monday, citing the lack of lab support following staffing cuts, the FDA suspended quality testing for milk and other liquid dairy products. Finally, milk will do to the goyimb.

Jen Psaki (54:43)

What'S been doing to the Jews for thousands of years.

John Lovett (54:49)

Hell, yeah. I need another federal worker.

Jen Psaki (54:56)

Said one dairy farm owner.

John Lovett (54:58)

I definitely had a band aid on.

Eugene Daniels (54:59)

When I came in this morning.

John Lovett (55:00)

What happened to it? Oh, well, I'm sorry about that one. Hi. Oh, so many. So many people. All right, I'm coming over here. The National Science foundation abruptly canceled more than 400 research awards, including but not limited to, grants focused on DEI and disinformation. Or did they? Who's over here? Hi. All right. So many people accepted the Department of Transportation's resignation offer, part of Doge's federal staffing cuts that the agency is now begging employees not to leave. That'll show him in unrelated news, could someone drive me to 12th, New Jersey South? After the show, we will need to stop at the dry cleaners near my house. Cause he works there. You can't tell the Department of Transportation employees to hit the road and expect them not to do it. Those guys love roads. Nice. That's it. Good job, everybody. Thanks, everybody. Okay, when we come back, Jen Psaki and Eugene Daniels is here. Okay. And we're back. My friends from inside the TV are here. Please welcome to the stage from MSNBC's the Briefing with Jen Psaki, it's Jen psaki. And from MSNBC's upcoming the Weeknd, it's Eugene Daniels. Hi. Good to see you. Hi. Come on in.

Jen Psaki (56:38)

Hi, everyone.

Eugene Daniels (56:39)

Hello.

John Lovett (56:41)

Hello.

Jen Psaki (56:41)

First of all, we're not gonna insult you like Congressman Khanna did. We just.

Eugene Daniels (56:46)

We did discuss stuff backstage.

Jen Psaki (56:48)

We love you.

John Lovett (56:49)

I think he meant that I described the incompetence.

Jen Psaki (56:53)

I'm joking.

Eugene Daniels (56:54)

Should we get him back out here to tell us what he did?

Jen Psaki (56:56)

He did a great job.

John Lovett (56:57)

He did a great job.

Jen Psaki (56:58)

Every member of Congress can't flow with your humor. So I think we can give him a good.

John Lovett (57:02)

Absolutely.

Jen Psaki (57:03)

He was really good. He was really good.

John Lovett (57:05)

I love Rokhanna. And genuinely, I said this to him. I wasn't sucking up. I really. I was excited to talk to him about a range of things. But he gave an extraordinary speech about the Constitution and democracy, and everybody should take a moment to go read it. They don't come along that way that often. All right, Jen?

Jen Psaki (57:25)

Yes. Such a dramatic.

Eugene Daniels (57:27)

I was worried it was one of these down here.

Jen Psaki (57:30)

I don't want to talk about the Pope and what happened. No, I don't know.

Eugene Daniels (57:34)

No, correct, Correct.

John Lovett (57:36)

It's an open question. Something we'll have to get to the bottom of. Hearings in the House. That's something fun Democrats could say if we went back to the House. We're holding hearings as to Whether or not J.D. vance killed the population. Jen, yesterday we learned that you will be taking over Rachel Maddow's primetime MSNBC slot with your new show, the Briefing.

Jen Psaki (58:00)

Thank you, Buzz.

John Lovett (58:01)

She'll return to hosting on Mondays. Wow. Prime time every night and at such a fun time, you get to do this prep.

Jen Psaki (58:10)

I was thinking about this because I am kind of a jammies by 9:30 person. I don't know who's with me. And so I'm like, I really have to adjust to the whole timeline, but I'm Here for it. Coffee at seven, I think.

John Lovett (58:23)

And plus it's gonna. Plus the news and keeping up with every day covering what's going on.

Jen Psaki (58:28)

Well, that's enough to keep you awake. That's its own sort of jolt of something.

John Lovett (58:34)

And Eugene, you also just joined msnbc. You're gonna be co hosting the Weekend with Jonathan Capehart and Jackie Alemany. You and Jonathan.

Eugene Daniels (58:42)

Thank you.

John Lovett (58:43)

Yeah. You and Jonathan will be the first openly gay black men to host a major network. Is that because it's such a good time to be gay and black?

Eugene Daniels (58:54)

It's never been a better time, baby. It's better. I appreciate you saying it. Right. The other day, someone said, I'm openly black and gay. And I was like, I am also openly black. I guess it wasn't. It was less of a question from birth.

John Lovett (59:11)

Right. I feel like if you're asking someone about being gay, the openly is implied.

Eugene Daniels (59:15)

Right? Right. Correct.

Jen Psaki (59:16)

I now feel bad for the person who did that.

Eugene Daniels (59:18)

I didn't say their name. I didn't say their name.

Jen Psaki (59:20)

I know it's probably findable. Don't find it.

John Lovett (59:24)

When news out of the Trump administration is this absurd and I think this brazenly terrible, is it a challenge to cover it in a way that doesn't feel like you're just sort of giving us what we want?

Jen Psaki (59:40)

What do you want? That's the good question. Let's shout it out.

John Lovett (59:45)

We want to wake up in a better world.

Jen Psaki (59:46)

I know. Don't we all? First of all, I am a believer, as I know you are. And you are that knowledge is power and empowering. And in this moment, when things are very scary and we don't have to deny that they are scary, we also need to understand exactly what is happening within the federal government, what dismantling is happening, what rights are being taken away and what's happening out in states as well as states are being impacted. So the challenge is actually that. The challenge I found is that it is hard. An hour long show. It sounds long. It's 42 minutes, actually. And when you're hosting a show, you think about, how do I deliver to the audience and make it feel like we're adding value and insight and information back into the universe. And there's just not enough time in 42 minutes to talk about all of the massive shit shows that are happening right now. So that is actually the biggest challenge. But the way I think about it, I mean, you and we're all nerdy here. Everybody here's nerdy, guys, you know, proud nerds. Proud nerds. But what I also think is challenging about this moment is it's easy to lose the thread of stories, right? The signal gate story, which may sound like nobody in here thinks it doesn't matter, but some people may think it doesn't matter. But here's the thing. Does anybody work in the national security space out here? Right. Thank you, guys. You guys all know that anybody working in this space, if you have access to classified information, you literally can't bring in a watch, AirPods, anything into a classified space. A skiff, Right. And there are so many means of sharing information. And if you're the Secretary of Defense, by the way, like Pete Hegseth, you have a bazillion ways you can have these conversations. But my point of what I'm saying here is we lost the threat of that for a couple of weeks until, like, there was new reporting and we learned he's maybe building a makeup room or whatever's happening there. But it's important to follow these stories and the threads of them, because if there's 100 signal chains, that means all of that information could be accessible to adversaries around the world. It means people who are operatives around the world could be at risk. It means our military could be at risk. So the two challenges I've found are how do you fit everything in 42 minutes? You can't. And how do you keep following the thread of stories and get into the absolute weediest of weeds so people understand how all of this is impacting their lives around the country?

John Lovett (62:24)

Yeah, it's a good answer. Whenever I go on Chris Hazer show, he asked me, I get maybe two questions, and it's always like, it's bad news, Chris, we're out of time. I feel like I'm not built for it. I feel like I've become luxuriously comfortable to the endless amount of time I get during a podcast.

Jen Psaki (62:41)

Okay. I'm give shorter answers. I'm sorry, that was.

John Lovett (62:44)

No, that was great.

Jen Psaki (62:45)

I apologize.

Eugene Daniels (62:47)

We have three hours now on the Saturday and Sunday. So if you need a little bit more time, you can pay it with us on Saturday and Sunday.

Jen Psaki (62:53)

I was pitching Eugene ideas backstage. He was like, very good idea. Okay, thank you.

John Lovett (62:59)

We can pre tape Fridays, right?

Eugene Daniels (63:01)

We can maybe, Maybe. We might have to pre tape you.

John Lovett (63:04)

Based on your colorful East Coast Saturday. Yeah. All right. Eugene, you're the head of the White House Correspondents Association. How much does that job pay? It seems like a fun job.

Eugene Daniels (63:21)

It is shockingly cheap. It is $0. It is a volunteer gig. The entire board is a volunteer board. Nine members, working journalists who spend their. Probably my phone's blowing up right now because we're always slacking and talking to each other about what we could be doing differently, what we should be doing, who's being blocked out of what now as something that we're spending a lot of time dealing with, which is abnormal. You guys probably know that. You know that that doesn't typically happen in White Houses.

John Lovett (63:53)

Yeah. Well, it does seem like, I think in the same way, when people see what's happening in the world, they want to yell at someone that will care, so they yell at the media in the same way. I think that's like a smaller microcosm of that, because people see what's happening to the press corps and they want someone to be angry at. And so they want to be angry at the White House Correspondents Association. And I think there may be. I do think there are valid criticisms, but at the same time, I would be interested to hear just sort of what. Of a tight spot you're in and what levers you actually have, because it's just a group of journalists having conversations. Yeah.

Eugene Daniels (64:28)

It's a group of nerds like we are in here, who, especially for the board, who just wanted to be problem solvers. Right. Like, you don't run for the board and give up all this time and give your life to do the things that we do. Because you just want power and you want to keep people out of the, you know, out of the pool. That's not what folks are doing. So the levers of power that people think we have don't actually exist. Like we found out earlier over the last four months and the last decade is most of the things that have been a part of the way that the White House Correspondence association has worked for years with different White Houses, whether it was the Obama White House, the Reagan White House, the Biden White House, it was all norm. We didn't have us handling the pools and handling the logistics. It wasn't because there was a law passed by Congress to do that. It was because White Houses knew, and even the Trump White House from the first administration, that the people that are being covered should not choose the people that are covering them. And that is, as far as we're concerned, the most important issue that we're dealing with. Because. Do you want. Thank you, guys. And it's not because we, like running into the Oval Office or going into the EEOB or traveling on Air Force One. It's because the American people deserve to Understand? And to know that the people in that room are people who maybe have been on the beat for a while, understand the questions, who are coming in and asking serious questions of the most powerful people in the country. And so when you don't have that, when the American people can't trust that, it's not just an issue for us, it's an issue for everybody.

John Lovett (66:13)

Do you think that there are ways in which the press could be banding together more to fight on behalf of the AP or Reuters or any other people Trump is going after?

Eugene Daniels (66:23)

I mean, we signed a. The WFA board put together this letter in support of the Associated Press. Very early on, as soon as kind of all of this started happening, 39 other folks, member associations signed onto it, including people always surprised by this. So I like to bring it out. Fox News and Newsmax both signed on to the letter because they understand better than anyone, is that while things might be rosy with one administration, if you have a Ro Khanna as president or Chris Murphy or an aoc, then they're okay, they're very excited. Or Jen Psaki as president. Yeah, exactly. That's trompo.

Jen Psaki (67:01)

There's a lot of AOC in here.

Eugene Daniels (67:03)

Exactly. Then they're going to be kicked out. Right. And so we are a member association, we are a member board, and so we can't do things that our folks don't want to do. If you've ever tried to get 900 members and their bosses and their boss's boss's boss to kind of all agree on the same thing, while making sure you're still able to do the coverage that you want to do and are paid to do, and the American people expect and deserve. It's a balancing act, and it's very difficult. But I think every single day, the board and members become the friends of the board, the folks that are our pool chairs wake up and try to figure out, okay, what are the kinds of problems we can solve to make sure that our folks are actually in the room, even if there are some other people in the room asking some different types of questions.

John Lovett (67:50)

Jen, I want to ask you about that. You were white. Very diplomatic. Very diplomatic. Jen, you were White House press secretary. How much easier would your job have been if you could. If you need a quick break from using your brain, point to somebody who would ask a question like, how does Joe Biden seem so young every day? What's his secret?

Jen Psaki (68:13)

Why is he so thin? Is he losing weight? That was a recent question, wasn't it?

John Lovett (68:16)

It was.

Jen Psaki (68:17)

It was, yeah. It would have been a little different, I have to say. I would just add. I mean, I have. The White House Correspondents association can be a royal pain in the ass if you are in the White House.

Eugene Daniels (68:29)

Yes, we are.

Jen Psaki (68:29)

And I think this is important to understand. I have a point here that's positive, I promise. This is important to understand because their job is to push every White House for more access. The job of the press secretary and the press department and people working in the communications team is not to grant them access. Imagine if the press team was like, yes, you can have a daily press conference. That would be insane. That's not their job either. But what you work together on, which is also important, is providing access in an efficient way to the American public. And, yes, it's. The press is pushing you. They don't always like what the President says. Oftentimes they don't. But you work with them on a couple things that are important to understand. One is the president goes to a war zone. Right. You can't announce that publicly because there's a national security risk. You would go to Eugene and you'd say, the president is going to a war zone. We need to put together a pool, because you know why. The American people should know what the president is doing in a war zone, but we can't announce it in advance. You have a trusting relationship with them. To do that, there is a mass shooting, of which, unfortunately, there are so many. This could happen on any domestic trip. You have a pool with you of the wire reporters and national reporter, tv, radio, because any president prior to this one, would want to speak to the American people and express love, support, resources, whatever is needed in that moment. The pool was created, I think, by Eisenhower forever ago, back in the day. Eisenhower. But it plays an important role. And when you have. I know that these absurd questions. My favorite one that's happened recently is Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend, which is an important part of the story. The day that Zelensky was in the Oval Office and your friend Rubio was sinking into the couch.

John Lovett (70:26)

Yeah.

Jen Psaki (70:27)

In an embarrassed fashion. Oh, no. Oh, that. There was another Rubio couch story. I wasn't going there. Was it Rubio or something?

John Lovett (70:36)

Oh, that's Vance. That's Vance.

Jen Psaki (70:37)

Sorry, sorry. Now I just went there. Anyway, my point is, Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend asked Zelensky why he wasn't wearing a suit. This was after Zelensky had just been berated by the President of the United States and his country is at war and has been invaded by Russia. That is Not a question that would be asked by any pool reporter, including from Fox News and many other outlets that are conservative leaning, for sure.

John Lovett (71:07)

Well, also, God forbid, we're in some kind of real emergency, and it's not the AP or Reuters or the Washington Post, New York Times with the President, but Joeface from All America Radio. Like, we're fucked.

Jen Psaki (71:21)

Marjorie, Taylor Greene's boyfriend's name is not Joe Fuckface. Just.

John Lovett (71:24)

No, no, no, sorry. They look alike. They look alike. They all have that look.

Jen Psaki (71:28)

I don't know what his name is.

Eugene Daniels (71:30)

I didn't call him Joe Face. You know that word? Cause you know I would never do that. I'm diplomatic, remember?

John Lovett (71:37)

Speaking of incredible comedy, we're here for the White House Correspondent's Dinner weekend. You got flack. The White House Correspondents association got flack for canceling Amber Ruffy.

Eugene Daniels (71:46)

We got flack.

John Lovett (71:47)

You did. You got some flack. Now, my issue with it.

Eugene Daniels (71:50)

Okay, I'll see y'all after the show. How about that boots?

John Lovett (71:55)

My face played football at Colorado State. Watch yourselves.

Eugene Daniels (71:57)

Yeah, don't let the nail polish in the heels fool you, baby. I played college football.

John Lovett (72:05)

My issue with it is that a comedian brings a lot of attention to journalists and journalism at a time when getting attention is hard. Will there be a comedian next year? And you do know that I'm a straight shooter, widely respected on both sides.

Eugene Daniels (72:23)

It looks like the crowd wants you to. You know, we'll have to talk to Ouija. So next year, Weijia Jiang of CBS will be the president. So I don't know what their plans are.

John Lovett (72:31)

Oh, passing the buck.

Eugene Daniels (72:32)

I know, I know. I can call her.

John Lovett (72:34)

We can FaceTime her, put in a good word.

Eugene Daniels (72:35)

But you know what I will say about the decision to not have any comedian. Right? Is that I feel like we have built a dinner that gets us kind of back to the center of. Why we started having the dinners is to celebrate these students. We have more than 20 students who come across the country who get scholarships. Our award recipients who for the first time maybe ever, are actually going to talk when they get their awards and are just gonna kind of take a picture and walk off, centering them and centering and celebrating the First Amendment. People feel beleaguered. This. Our press corps has been attacked over and over and over again. And frankly, guys, folks don't feel like things are funny. Right? Do you think shit is real funny right now? I didn't think so. Okay, so the. So the.

John Lovett (73:26)

I'm sorry. Answer that question correctly at this comedy show.

Eugene Daniels (73:31)

Yeah. Not here. Right this second, very hilarious. But, like, in the world. And so, like. And so we're trying to reflect. We're trying to reflect that and kind of meet that moment, and, you know, those are the kinds.

John Lovett (73:43)

I'm mad at you.

Eugene Daniels (73:43)

That's fine.

John Lovett (73:44)

That's fine. Hey, you show some goddamn respect in a tough spot. I like Amber Ruffin a lot. I like Eugene a lot. All right. Trump is the.

Eugene Daniels (74:00)

Eugene out front.

John Lovett (74:02)

You played. You played football?

Eugene Daniels (74:04)

Raise your hand right now.

John Lovett (74:05)

Yeah. You played football at Colorado State. I do now. You knock the wind out of every passing gay guy with your fits. I was genuinely shocked to learn that you came out at 27.

Eugene Daniels (74:19)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Lovett (74:21)

That shocks me, because I see you as a person who has been gay the whole time. Yeah, well. But flamboyantly confident and confidently flamboyant.

Pete Hegseth (74:33)

I appreciate that.

Eugene Daniels (74:34)

I like that. Put that on my tombstone.

John Lovett (74:35)

What the fuck were you like when you were 26?

Eugene Daniels (74:38)

So I thought.

John Lovett (74:43)

You can't.

Eugene Daniels (74:43)

I was doing good. I thought I was doing a very good job. But I had a friend tell me that I saw a couple years ago after I come out. He was like, you know what was really funny is you, like, finished playing football. I was the defensive end. We'd be in high school, and you'd go to your car, and then you'd, like, bump Dannity Kane or Beyonce and, like. And so I wasn't doing a lot of hiding. I had girlfriends. I know everyone's shocked about that too. I had girlfriends and all of that, but I think, you know, I hit 27, and frankly, Pulse happened, and I had this terrifying thought that my parents, my family, I would die or something would happen, and they wouldn't know who I was. And so then I kind of made a decision that I was gonna kick, as my husband likes to say, kick down the closet door and come out fully formed, Fully formed, and never kind of be something else ever again. And what was I like? I spent a lot of time thinking about, like, okay, if I look at my nails, you have to go like this. Cause you like this. It's a girl. That's the way women do it, right? And if you can't put your hands on your hip this way, because now if it's popped, it's a little too gay. And so it's like, you spend so much time doing that. So when I came out, what I realized is I have so much room in my head for the work. I have so much room in my head to just, like, be. And you're not focusing and trying to hide. That's what you can do.

John Lovett (76:06)

Sweet one for me.

Jen Psaki (76:09)

I love that answer so much.

John Lovett (76:10)

Beautiful one for me Is that girls and gay guys hold books like this.

Eugene Daniels (76:16)

Yes.

John Lovett (76:16)

Yes. But straight men hold books at their sides.

Eugene Daniels (76:19)

Exactly. With a backpack.

John Lovett (76:21)

That's how I would hold a book. Exactly. And then I'd see if I mean.

Eugene Daniels (76:26)

Or like the backpack. Like, you can't. It can't be, like, leaning down too far because you know, it's too gay. You spend a lot of time doing that. Yeah.

John Lovett (76:34)

A lot of rules.

Eugene Daniels (76:36)

Yeah. The backpack. Yeah. I don't know if it still happens. I don't know what kids do. Kids take backpacks now?

John Lovett (76:41)

I don't know. It's all on the computer. It's AI. Now, before we go, Jen, you stood at the White House podium and answered tough questions. Eugene, you asked tough questions.

Eugene Daniels (76:52)

To Jen.

John Lovett (76:53)

To Jen. And now look at you. Thick as thieves. But the Trump White House, not a fan of hard questions. Which is why we want you both to blind rank. These softball questions lobbed underhanded at the Trump White House in a segment we're calling the White House Softball Tournament. Five is, of course, a semi firm cheddar, while one is the softest, crumblest goat cheese of all. You're blind ranking, so you don't know how bad the questions will get.

Eugene Daniels (77:23)

Do we know how many we have?

John Lovett (77:24)

We have five.

Eugene Daniels (77:25)

We have five.

John Lovett (77:25)

Five questions. You can rate that one through five with one being the softest, five being the toughest. Question is, where will that be? And you won't. All right, you're gonna blind rank em. So you don't.

Jen Psaki (77:36)

Are these actual questions?

John Lovett (77:37)

These are actual questions. Let's see what's first. So what does it say? That the Democrats, while they couldn't stand for Americans or stand for victims, they stood for war and clapped for war.

Eugene Daniels (77:50)

And clapped for five more years of war.

John Lovett (77:53)

Wow. What a tough question for the White House press secretary. What does it say about Democrats? They're the fucking worst.

Jen Psaki (78:01)

Warmongers.

John Lovett (78:02)

Warmongers.

Jen Psaki (78:03)

I'm going to give it a four.

Eugene Daniels (78:04)

I think. That's right.

Jen Psaki (78:05)

Let's give it a four. There's more room to.

John Lovett (78:07)

Yeah, there's room to grow. Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right, so let's put a 4 up on the big board.

Jen Psaki (78:14)

We may regret this. Don't feel like you have to follow me.

John Lovett (78:18)

Next up. So Secretary Hegseth announced yesterday that army recruiting levels have reached 12 year highs in December, 15 year highs in January. What is making young people want to serve the military under The Trump administration. And how does that contrast to Biden's failure consistently to be recruiting average? Yeah. Does DEI play President Trump's.

Jen Psaki (78:44)

Is this the same guy?

Eugene Daniels (78:45)

It is the same guy.

John Lovett (78:46)

It is the same guy. I think it is the same guy.

Eugene Daniels (78:48)

It is indeed. Gotta throw some dei.

Jen Psaki (78:51)

I love those people. I was like, man, I love those people.

John Lovett (78:54)

They didn't ask you those questions. They were harder questions for you?

Jen Psaki (78:56)

No, no. That guy would have been like, what would he have asked me?

John Lovett (79:00)

I had.

Jen Psaki (79:00)

We had plenty of these people.

John Lovett (79:01)

Laptop.

Jen Psaki (79:02)

He would have been like, why does Joe Biden hate the military and want. What would he have said? I don't know.

John Lovett (79:08)

Isn't there some point where the question is either so easy or so hard, like, the question is so easy that your job is harder because you have to pretend you got to ask a question, and at a certain point, a question is so hard, you just disregard it and just basically can respond not to the substance but to the ridiculousness.

Jen Psaki (79:26)

Well, that's true. You can look for a thread of ridiculous sometimes. Although that one. I want to know what she said, because was she like, thank you for your question. This is an incredible topic to discuss. Or what was said? I don't know.

John Lovett (79:38)

It's literally impossible to find out.

Jen Psaki (79:39)

Okay, how do we. Okay, how do we rank that one?

Eugene Daniels (79:45)

I. I'm gonna give that five.

Jen Psaki (79:47)

Yeah, me too. I think there's more to come. More to come.

John Lovett (79:50)

I think you're two savvy operators. Let's go to our next softball.

Pete Hegseth (79:57)

Many of the news organizations that are represented in this room have marked in lockstep on false narratives, such as the Very Fine People Hoax, the Covington smear.

John Lovett (80:05)

And now what's being called the Maryland Man Hoax.

Pete Hegseth (80:09)

Now, in an effort from the White House to expand access to new companies, you've created this new media seat. So I'm wondering if you can comment on following this expansion, you've had numerous outlets disparage the companies that you've had sit here as well as the reporters.

John Lovett (80:25)

I'm wondering if you could comment on the unprofessional behavior as well as elaborate if there's any plans to expand access to new companies. 2.

Jen Psaki (80:34)

All right, I'm going to give them a 3, because I'm like, what did you say?

John Lovett (80:39)

Yeah, where's his suit?

Jen Psaki (80:40)

Where is his suit? Is that what you want to know?

John Lovett (80:42)

Why did they ask about his suit? Honestly, if that's the new media seat, I want to use it, and I'm not gonna wear a suit.

Eugene Daniels (80:48)

I'm gonna do because he's talking shit about my people.

Jen Psaki (80:51)

All right, I'm gonna give it a three.

John Lovett (80:54)

Well, you have to agree, there's only. We're only doing one rankings together.

Eugene Daniels (80:58)

We could do a three.

Jen Psaki (80:59)

No, it's fine.

Eugene Daniels (81:00)

Two and a half.

Jen Psaki (81:01)

2.5. We can give it a two.

Eugene Daniels (81:03)

We'll give it a two.

John Lovett (81:04)

It's all right. It's a two. It's a two. All right, next up, my question is, do you think this latest incident with the President of Colombia is indicative of the global powerful respect they have for President Trump moving forward, not only to.

Pete Hegseth (81:20)

Engage in economic diplomacy with these countries.

John Lovett (81:24)

But also world peace?

Eugene Daniels (81:31)

That is Mr. Glenn. That is who she was talking about. That's Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend.

Jen Psaki (81:36)

That's.

Eugene Daniels (81:37)

That's Mr. Glenn.

John Lovett (81:38)

Wow.

Jen Psaki (81:39)

That's him in the flesh.

John Lovett (81:41)

Yeah. Mr. Glenn.

Jen Psaki (81:42)

It's all making sense right now.

John Lovett (81:43)

Trump is bringing about world peace. Care to comment? Yeah. I know there's an old joke about the questions that Charlie Rose used to ask authors about their books. Before. This is an old joke. Before. But the joke is like the.

Jen Psaki (81:59)

Before the whole Charlie Rose, the whole thing.

John Lovett (82:01)

Sorry, it's just from the past. There are things from the past I can draw upon. But the question was, your book, why now? It's a great question. I've used it.

Eugene Daniels (82:18)

I'm gonna give my journals. I had a journalism professor who said the best question to say, and then what happened? And then what happened? And people just keep talking forever. And then what happened?

Jen Psaki (82:28)

We like that.

Eugene Daniels (82:29)

Yeah. And then what happened? Yeah. Free tip for everybody. For the booers out there, you could take that tip.

Jen Psaki (82:34)

I feel like the thing about that guy is he went home and he was like, marjorie, I crushed it today, don't you think?

John Lovett (82:43)

You know what?

Jen Psaki (82:43)

I killed it in the briefing room.

John Lovett (82:46)

I hope what happened is he walked through the door and before he could say anything, she was like, honey, you crushed it today. That's what you want.

Jen Psaki (82:53)

He texted him.

John Lovett (82:54)

That's a good relationship.

Jen Psaki (82:55)

Love you. Xoxoheart Heart, heart emoji. I don't know.

John Lovett (82:59)

I hope so.

Jen Psaki (83:00)

I think that's a three. I feel like there's something big coming.

Eugene Daniels (83:03)

Yeah, I do. Yeah. I don't trust Lovett, so probably your.

John Lovett (83:08)

Instincts, I have to say. Perfect. Perfect. Finally, here's Lindell TV reporter Kara Castronova asking the hard kidding questions about Trump's health.

Jen Psaki (83:18)

Oh, boy.

John Lovett (83:19)

Will you guys also consider releasing the president's fitness plan? He actually looks healthier than ever before. Healthier than he did eight years ago. And I'm sure everybody in this room could agree. The president's fitness plan. Donald Trump's fitness plan.

Jen Psaki (83:34)

First of all, I was talking earlier about how you don't have enough time in 42 minutes. And a segment I really wanted to do. I'm a sports fan. I was never a football player, obviously, but was all of the people who are actually the height and weight that Donald Trump claims he is. I wanted to do like a four minute read on this because there are enough people like, where are you, Patrick Mahomes? Because apparently you're the same size as Donald Trump. I think he's one of the people. So that's a one for me. It's amazing. I love that question.

John Lovett (84:12)

It's an incredible.

Eugene Daniels (84:13)

What's your, what would, how would you have answered that if someone asked you that about Joe Biden? Joe Biden, Yeah. Or Obama?

Jen Psaki (84:19)

Well, Eugene, thank you for your question. I would say the president is a healthy eater. He does like to exercise. And we have released transparently his full health report from his doctor who is actually has a medical degree.

John Lovett (84:38)

So that's a great place to leave it. Let's see the rankings. We have the final rankings.

Eugene Daniels (84:44)

She still got it. She still got it.

John Lovett (84:48)

All right, five.

Jen Psaki (84:49)

I'm nervously looking for the ranking here.

John Lovett (84:51)

We have the final rankings in five. I think you guys did a great job. What is Trump's recruitment secret? 4. Why aren't Democrats such warmongers? 3, will Trump bring about world peace? 2, why are people giving me such a hard time? And one, how does Donald Trump say so sexy? What's his secret? Jenny, Eugene, thank you so much. Stick around.

Jen Psaki (85:13)

Thank you.

John Lovett (85:14)

Starting May 6, the breathing with Jen Psaki will air every Tuesday through Friday at 9 on MSNBC. And beginning May 3rd, you can watch more of Eugene as co host of MSNBC's the Weeknd on Saturdays and Sundays. The sun never sets on these two. We'll be right back up with a sort of wheel. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love it or Leave it coming up. Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Haya. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise, filled with sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy additives growing kids should not eat. That's why Haya created a superpower chewable vitamin High is made with zero sugar and zero gummy additives, yet it tastes great and is perfect for picky eaters. Formulated with the help of pediatricians and nutritional experts, Haya is pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies. Then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals to help support immune system, energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones and more. Charlie took one, then he beat seven people at chess. In the true story. It's non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gelatin free and nut free. But you can, you could sprinkle nuts on top of it and that's also fine if you know, if you want the nuts. Yeah, every batch is third party tested so it's safe, it's nutritious. Highest designed for kids two and up and sent straight to your door. So parents have one less thing to worry about. Personal endorsement from John. Well, Charlie has been taking higher vitamins for quite some time now and it's great because you know, he doesn't exactly have a balanced diet but now he does. Now he's getting all his nutrients and vitamins and he, he really likes it. And he doesn't have a balanced diet because you only let him out of the cage once a day. Yes. Yeah, no, we just kind of throw some food in there, a couple handfuls and. Are you tired of battling with your kids to eat their greens? Haya now has Kids Daily Greens plus Superfoods, a chocolate flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids. Packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power, development and digestion. Just scoop, shake and sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious and nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy. We've worked out a special deal with High after their best selling children's vitamin receive 50 off your first order. To claim the deal you must go to hayahealth.com love it. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H I Y A Health H E a l t hyahealth.com love it. L o V E T T and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto insurance and you.

Eugene Daniels (87:52)

Could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today, restrictions apply.

John Lovett (88:04)

And we're back. Before we get to our final segment, think of all the things you could do with the time you won't spend listening to ads. Learn Italian, organize your spice drawer. Finally confront the void. Or just enjoy uninterrupted. Love it or Leave it. For the month of April. You can try ad free episodes of Love it or Leave it with a 30 day free trial of Friends of the Pod. We're trying to build a media company here. When you subscribe, you'll unlock ad free Pod save America. Pod save the world. You'll have our discord community at exclusive content like Polar Coaster with the one the only. You love em Dan Pfeiffer. Pfeiffer. Pfeiffer. Pfeiffer. The subscription is the best way to support Crooked's mission of building a progressive media ecosystem. Subscribe by the end of April to receive 30 day free trial of Friends of the Pod, crooked.com friends or sign up through Apple Podcasts. 30 day trial ends on April 30th. So access and also we're launching Pride merch. We have a joiner die shirt. It's the classic joiner dye flag, but we've made it fucking gay as hell. You have one there. Oh, cool. They're trying to separate the T from the LGB and if they do that, we'll be sol. I've used that joke before him. So show your pride. Grab a Joyner die T shirt or a sticker from the Cricut store. The design is great. We have a great design team. Zevi did an amazing job with her team. To do this, head to cricut.com storeteshop it's what our founding daddies would have wanted. All right, all right. Please welcome back to the stage, Congressman Ro Khanna. Move my drink over right over here. Come on in. Welcome back. Good to see ya.

Pete Hegseth (89:52)

They were great.

John Lovett (89:53)

Yeah, they were good.

Pete Hegseth (89:54)

And more polite.

John Lovett (89:55)

You were very polite. They gave you shit. I knew what you meant. Everyone uses the same four phrases. And since all of us up here talk for a living, we're gonna rip apart the one saying that irks us the most in a segment we're calling It's Giving Rant Wheel. Here's how it works. We're gonna spin the wheel. When it lands on you, you're gonna talk about one phrase that you're saying we gotta drop. Stop. We're not using it anymore. All right, let's spin the wheel. Or there was a couple on there. Congressman, what phrase are you ready to retire?

Pete Hegseth (90:34)

I want to retire when politicians say bipartisan and common sense. Bipartisan and common sense got us nafta, got us the war in Iraq, got us the Patriot act and got us the disaster in Gaza. Time for that to go.

John Lovett (90:51)

Wow. Take that. Take that. All right, they're gone. Bipartisan and common sense. Controversial. Let's spin it again.

Jen Psaki (91:12)

Oh, okay. I have two words. It's not going to be popular. But I have a point. I would like to retire authoritarianism and oligarchy because I think that's not how human beings speak. And I think we need different ways of describing what both of those things are. So I'd like to retire both of those words.

John Lovett (91:32)

Huh? I. I see there's some. That's interesting, but I see people. There's a debate about the word oligarchy as to whether or not it's a word everybody knows or whether it's highfalutin elite talk. But I'm in the oligarchy, so I don't know.

Jen Psaki (91:50)

It's okay as an outsider, as a person, not in the oligarchy. Maybe I am. I don't know. Who knows? But I, for one, am a man. Oligarchs don't admit they're in the oligarchy. My point is this. We should just say rich people with too much access to power. You know what I mean? That's it. It is an oligarchy. But I say we all know in this room, oligarchy. We use the words. Right. But as we're inviting more people into the party and the operation here, I think we have to speak in normal speak.

John Lovett (92:21)

Okay.

Jen Psaki (92:23)

That's just my take. You can disagree. It's okay. This is a safe place of retiring phrases.

John Lovett (92:29)

I'm just taking it in. I'm listening. I'm learning, I'm growing.

Jen Psaki (92:33)

Well, you were shaking your head, so.

John Lovett (92:35)

I was like, oh, no, I was processing.

Jen Psaki (92:38)

Okay, processing.

John Lovett (92:40)

Now we're in a fight. Let's spin it again.

Jen Psaki (92:51)

Who's it going to be?

Eugene Daniels (92:52)

I know. Who's next?

Jen Psaki (92:53)

It's like. It's racing for it, you know?

Eugene Daniels (92:56)

A word I'm starting to hate. It's a word that we use as journalists a lot. Embroiled.

John Lovett (93:00)

Oh, embroiled.

Eugene Daniels (93:02)

Okay. I got some of the booers back. I'm excited. They're back.

Jen Psaki (93:07)

Embroiled protectors.

Eugene Daniels (93:10)

It doesn't mean anything. It's just. We're like, they're embroiled in a scandal. They're embroiled in a scandal. They're embroiled in this. It's embroiled in the Pentagon. We're all embroiled enough. Move on. Figure out a different word. Be more creative. Our job is to use words, Find other words to describe it.

John Lovett (93:26)

I think it's a really good point. I think there's certain words in journalism that basically, it's when you don't want to Google something, because embroiled leaves a lot of ambiguity as to when it began, when it will end who's responsible.

Eugene Daniels (93:42)

It's very vague.

John Lovett (93:43)

There's a lot of words like that.

Eugene Daniels (93:44)

How bad it is. It doesn't tell you how bad it is.

John Lovett (93:46)

Right. Other words like that are resurfaced and fueled. Fueled is fucking everywhere. And it's like. Has fueled speculation. What? This is the speculation. This is the fuel. The article about the fueling speculation is the speculation and the fuel for further speculation. Something to think about. But I'm just a humble country oligarch.

Jen Psaki (94:22)

Well, when you're an oligarch, you're gonna protect the word.

John Lovett (94:25)

I aspire to oligarchy. Honestly. This is America. Anyone can grow up to be an oligarch. That's the American dream. One day, you, too, could be riffing in the White House because you bought a meme coin. A lot to think about. Let's spin it one more time.

Jen Psaki (94:49)

Oh, I was waiting like it was a mystery Again.

John Lovett (94:53)

Here's the word. I would like to just retire from the Democratic lexicon. And it will sound as though I'm directing it at one person, but I'm not. Distraction. No more talking about distractions. And it's. There's too much overthinking about how to talk about politics. And it feels like it's trying to harken back to an era when politics was a debate taking place among 500 people, as opposed to a big, fractious debate taking place among millions of people. Jen and I, I feel like we came up during politics at a time when you really wanted your politician on message, because if they strayed and sent something interesting, the article wouldn't be about the one thing you wanted to talk about that day. And so you didn't want distractions. You didn't want to be off message. But now you have to reach people and gain attention and be interesting across so many different media and so many different platforms. And whatever the story is that you're trying to drive, if you just say the same thing over and over again, you're building a beautiful cathedral of message that's empty. Nobody's inside, nobody's gonna see it. Nobody's gonna know anything about what you're talking about. And so, especially when the media environment is so convoluted and when the midterm elections are two years away, we do not need to all collectively decide that because it's Cost of Living Week or whatever the fuck, we're not gonna talk about what's happening in our immigration system, or we're not going to talk about a Supreme Court case about LGBT fucking books or whatever other issue we have all collectively decided isn't kitchen table. As if fags don't eat in the kitchen.

Jen Psaki (96:47)

Can we get rid of kitchen table? I'd like to add kitchen table.

Eugene Daniels (96:51)

Correct. Correct.

John Lovett (96:53)

Let's kill. You know what? We can keep going. Here's some others. Kitchen table issues. Here's another phrase. Pocketbook issues.

Eugene Daniels (97:01)

Correct.

John Lovett (97:02)

Pocketbook. My grandmother had a pocketbook.

Eugene Daniels (97:07)

What about women's issues? Women's issues, Women's issues, Women's issues. All those issues are the same. Women care about all the things. Black issues.

Pete Hegseth (97:17)

Yeah.

John Lovett (97:17)

I think in the last, like in the last two weeks, we've seen more and more polling about how people have shifted on immigration. And all of a sudden what was a distraction two weeks ago is suddenly a salient and important way to make people understand what we as Democrats are willing to fight for. And a lot of people didn't know what that was and a lot of people still don't. And I'd like to see us fighting, even if it might not be the issue that we'll be talking about in November of 2026. I think that's okay. Enough with distractions. That's what I wanted to say about. And I think that's a great place to leave it. I want to thank Congressman Ro Khanna. Thank you so much. I want to thank Jen Psaki. So awesome. I want to thank Eugene Daniels, everybody. Watch their show. Support their show. We will see you next week at Dynasty typewriter in LA. There are 556 days until the midterm elections. Have a great night and have a great weekend. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked media on Instagram, TikTok and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love it or leave it on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad free Love it or Leave it and POD Save America episodes, subscriber exclusive pods and more. Sign up@crooked.com friends. Love it or Leave it is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre and Will Miles are our writers. Jordan Kantor is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Chercher. Thanks to our designer Sammy Cadearna Ries for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers David Tulls, Claudia Shang, Mia, Kelman, Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt de Groot, our head of programming is Madelyn Herringer, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East It's Love it or leave it.

Eugene Daniels (99:51)

What's poppin listeners?

John Lovett (99:54)

I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast.

Jen Psaki (99:56)

Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it.

Pete Hegseth (100:00)

Each week I talk with very special.

Eugene Daniels (100:02)

Guests about the scammiest scammers of all time.

John Lovett (100:05)

Wanna know about the fake errors?

Eugene Daniels (100:06)

We got em? What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you.

Jen Psaki (100:12)

And then steal all your coins.

Eugene Daniels (100:15)

Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole byer.

Jen Psaki (100:21)

Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more.

John Lovett (100:24)

Join the congregation and listen to Scam.

Eugene Daniels (100:26)

Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

John Lovett (100:30)

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