← Lunch with Jamie
Lunch with Jamie
From Lawyer to 1 Million Followers in 1 Week. Here's What It Cost Him | Aaron Parnas
00:55:20
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- [00:04]
A
Today's guest on Lunch with Jamie is lawyer turned independent journalist Aaron Parnas. Grew up in South Florida in a Republican household. Graduated college at 18. He now reports the news all day long. His style is matter of fact journalism, just getting the news out to people. He's on TikTok, he's on Instagram, he's on Substack. He's the co host of Raging Moderates. And what I love is he just reports the news with the facts. We talk about the state of media, we talked about the upcoming elections, we talked about Gen Z redistricting, fair elections, gerrymandering. It's pretty amazing. He also gave us the way the sausage is made and his setup to get the news, which made my head hurt. Anyway, I love talking to Aaron. I can't wait for you listen to this conversation. Now here's my conversation with Aaron Parnas. Aaron, thank you for joining us today.
- [01:03]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [01:05]
A
So this is normally issues, politics. Those are our main questions. But I always start off with the toughest questions. It's just called Lunch with Jamie. If I was visiting you in D.C. and we were able to go get a meal and you were able to step away from your work and your family, where would you take me? And just to give you context, I always choose a hole in the wall over a Michelin star. Unless the Michelin star. Hole in the wall has a Michelin star. And then we're like, that's like the Holy grail.
- [01:34]
B
Yeah. So my favorite place in D.C. it's actually a bit of a controversial opinion. It's called All Purpose. It's a small DC pizza chain and DC has terrible pizza. But for some reason, these guys are great. Would take you there. It's the best spot. I love it.
- [01:48]
A
All right, I'm in it. All right. Next time I'm there. So as I mentioned, you do have a newborn new child, which is amazing congratulation. Which I don't understand how you're able to keep up the output you have with a new child.
- [02:03]
B
Oh, she allows me to have even more time in my day because I don't sleep anymore. So now I have hours all night to consume.
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A
That's the solution. So it's safe to say you're going to be having a lot of children. Is that going to be the solution?
- [02:15]
B
That is the plan.
- [02:18]
A
I have a lot of topics I want to get to you about, but I do want to start with some of how you got to where you are because it's pretty fascinating. First of all, you grew up As a Republican in South Florida, if I understand.
- [02:28]
B
I mean, grew up is a strong phrase. I switched when I was a teenager. Still, I grew up in a Republican household. You could say that.
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A
Got it.
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B
Okay.
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A
And you were in South Florida?
- [02:39]
B
Yeah, in South Florida.
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A
And your father has a little bit of his own story. Lev Parnas, I know he was arrested early on in your life, and I'm just curious, if you don't mind touching on that, how did that affect your outlook on work and identity and politics and.
- [02:59]
B
Well, I mean, I was in the middle of law school when it happened, so I guess I experienced the justice system from a perspective I never thought I would. And I just. I mean, it was a defining moment in my life. It was one of the hardest moments in my life because immediately I went from being just me, myself, Aaron Parnas, to being Lev's son all over the media and my family being wall to wall coverage for months on various media channels. So very hard. But we pushed through. And I mean, it taught me a lot of lessons.
- [03:30]
A
Did it make you want to double down on law at that point? Obviously, you know, years later you've, you know, you stepped back. So I'm curious.
- [03:39]
B
Well, no, I mean, not necessarily on law. My dream was always to be a public defender. That was always my goal in life. And so it definitely made me double down on that path of representing folks in the courtroom.
- [03:51]
A
And your dad, if I understand now, is running for Congress as a Democrat in Florida.
- [03:55]
B
I guess so. I don't know. I don't really know much about the campaign or what he's doing over there regarding that.
- [04:00]
A
Okay. And I've also heard you talk about how the Russian invasion of Ukraine was one of the catalysts of your shift into media. Is that accurate? And what was. Can you talk a little bit about that?
- [04:12]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think so. When Russia invaded Ukraine, I was freshly out of law school, about a year and a half out of law school, and I was fully full time practicing law. And I felt as though that what I was watching on TV here in the United States just wasn't necessarily giving the full picture of what my family was experiencing on the ground in Kyiv. And so I just pulled out my phone and just started making TikToks, and within a week had a million followers who were interested in learning more about Ukraine. And so the rest is kind of history.
- [04:39]
A
What do you kind of attribute that quick rise to? Like what. What do you. Can you pinpoint where you think you connected with people to have that sort of meteoric, You Know, following.
- [04:52]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it's just like, because I was just sharing my story and my family story from I look like this. Again, I wasn't professional. I firmly believe perfect is the enemy of good in a lot of these situations. And so I think it was just like the authenticity factor of it that connected. And then Also, I mean, TikTok has a natural algorithm. I think for the first time ever for Gen Z, we were experiencing a war when Russia invaded Ukraine that was like the first big war that our generation experienced. And so a lot of people were very interested in a kind, kind of perfect storm, so to speak.
- [05:25]
A
It's so clear that your style is sort of just honest. Honesty, authenticity. Matter of fact, this is who you are, which seems to connect, as you just said, better than anything. Yet whether, whether it's kind of traditional people in media or politicians and business leaders, it seems like more times than not they're so far from that and they work so hard to have these fake polished Personas that aren't themselves. Yet every time we see it, it works to be just who you are. What do you think the disconnect is for, you know, for most of those people?
- [06:04]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it's. It really is perfect as the enemy of good. I think a lot of those folks want perfection in the content they put out. They have to look perfect, they have sound perfect. Every word has to be spelled perfectly. I mean, and when you strive for perfection, you ultimately lose kind of person ability, if that, That's a word. So I think that. I think that's really the big thing.
- [06:27]
A
Got it. And I, I assume you see it mostly with people who are older. I mean, I think you, the, you know, the younger online journalists or media or just journalists, and also the younger politicians, like you take like a Maxwell Frost, for example, you know, but what? Yeah.
- [06:44]
B
Couldn't say, yeah, yeah, Maxwell Zoran. I mean, you, you name it. The younger politicians are doing a great job. Yeah.
- [06:49]
A
And are you seeing that with some of the, you know, I don't want to put myself in the class of older, older folks or older, you know, people in politics or media. Are you seeing people that you look at, you're like, oh, that person gets it.
- [07:03]
B
They're doing a great job as far as politicians go. I mean. Yeah, I mean, listen, I honestly think, like, it's the people behind those older folks. So I think, like, for example, I think Bernie's team does great work in terms of the way they portray him and how he's presenting himself online. And the content they're putting out and the videos and stuff. But in that case, I know Bernie, for a fact, is not doing it himself. So it just depends.
- [07:29]
A
Yeah, two people that I think are in some ways the gold standards when it comes to politics are Daniel Lurie and then the other person of Jeff Jackson, the Attorney General of North Carolina. And what stands out to me about what they do is, I mean, this in the kindest way. But Daniel, you can tell, is really uncomfortable with these direct to video messages. But they're so authentic and they're so. You feel like he's really just who he is and that they work so well. And Jeff on the opposite. Jeff, is this really just kind of, well, you know, this polished, put together Attorney General. But they're sort of these really simple, corny, very straightforward matter of fact. This is what's going on. And again, it really is just like, this is who I am.
- [08:16]
B
Yeah, they both do great. When you said older, I figured older, but yeah, I mean, listen, Jeff Jackson and Zoran are the same age. I think we're close in age. So like, yeah, I mean, they're Yasmin Ansari, another one from Arizona. She does great work. So I think there are plenty in that age group.
- [08:32]
A
I've also heard people compare you to Walter Cronkite, which, you know, at your young age is a nice person to be compared to because your reporting is fact based without too much personal commentary. I mean, is that something you're striving for, limiting your personal commentary or.
- [08:53]
B
Yeah, I mean, for sure. I mean, I'm not Walter Cronkite. I'm nowhere near Walter Cronkite. If I ever achieve 10% of what he has achieved in his life or he had achieved in his life, I would be a success. So I hear the comparisons, but I kind of want to put a pause on those. I mean, I think for me, it's just. I think a lot of people are tired of just kind of the opinion in news. And so I just try to share the news, the facts, and that's kind of it. There. There are times where I share opinion, but it's very rare. It's not often.
- [09:20]
A
And I appreciate you trying to do that. I mean, I. I've strived as I started this journey on my podcast and what I do to sort of try and keep my personal opinions out of it. And I. That went off. That went off the rails really fast. So I really respect that. Do you think it's really possible? And as you said, your opinion gets in it too, at times to really do that when there's so many things that just factually are completely false that all of a sudden you sort of, you have no choice but to add a little bit of commentary?
- [09:55]
B
Yeah, I mean, listen, of course it's possible. And I mean, I think that if you watch any of my videos, they're all like the same deadpan face, the same delivery. Doesn't really matter. I mean, I unfortunately am in the position now where I am so numb to everything in this world that there are very few things that actually impact me anymore. And it's not a good thing. It's actually a really bad way of coping with all of it. But it's the only way I can to continue doing it.
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A
So.
- [10:19]
B
Yeah, I mean, I have to kind of stay that way for my own sanity even.
- [10:24]
A
Do you think, are there other people that you're seeing that maybe have leanings to a more conservative bent that you appreciate and respect in the, in the media space now who you feel are honest?
- [10:40]
B
And I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. I don't watch other people's content. I really don't like. I think that is A, I don't have time to watch other people's content on either side of the aisle and B, I don't actually get much out of watching other people's content because I consume so much directly from like the source, firsthand sources for posts and for posts that I make. And then if I consumed other people's content on a daily basis, I would literally go crazy.
- [11:11]
A
So I get that gets. Where do you get your content from? What is the most sort of accurate place to get content? Or is it really like you're just taking it from the horse's mouth in essence and then sort of reporting on what you here directly?
- [11:26]
B
Yeah, so it really depends. I mean, so here's how kind of my operation works. I have in my office at home multiple screens. One is C span running 24 7. So I see what's happening in Congress and listen to press conferences there, people on the floor, etc. Etc. The other is a kind of ticker of every single member of Congress and world leader. Every time they post on Twitter or Truth Social, I get a notification and I'm constantly monitoring it. 99% of the time it's all irrelevant BS. But there are plenty of times where they announce something that I'm like on top of. I was a lawyer first. So another screen has constant notifications coming in from court records and court cases. That I'm following. Get notifications to my inbox and when an opinion comes out, I read it, I report on it. The fourth is my email inbox, which I get flooded with every day with tips on stories and documents from people inside the government, outside the government, et cetera. That makes up like 70% of the work right there. And then the final 30% is more investigative pieces. I don't dub myself an investigative journalist by any means. And so there are really good investigative journalists that I read every day from ProPublica to Wired, some folks there, and I get news from there as well.
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A
That makes my head hurt just thinking about your screens.
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B
Yeah, it makes my head hurt too.
- [12:47]
A
I hope you're getting up and taking a walk every so often or taking your daughter out for a walk or something.
- [12:52]
B
I have to, otherwise she'll scream at me. So. Yeah.
- [12:54]
A
Okay, good. How do you suggest the average person today try and get a well balanced media diet if you had to? If you were, you know, my, if you were my media nutritionist and I wanted to be. And I wanted to be updated and educated and well rounded, what would you tell me to do?
- [13:17]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's actually funny. I would recommend anyone just subscribe to a wire service. I mean, I really think that is like the most. That's the most basic thing you can do where you'll get just like one sentence, two sentence lines repeatedly of just like everything that's happening in the world. And it's the easiest thing and you get your digest of everything you need without any commentary. So would definitely look to a wire service.
- [13:39]
A
Okay, which one should I use?
- [13:41]
B
I'm going to sign up either Reuters or ap. I mean, they're great and they've been around for ages, so.
- [13:46]
A
All right. I mean, there's so many topics I want to get your perspective on. Obviously, foreign policy is in the news all day, every day right now. Although Trump was getting us out of all of our foreign conflicts when he became president, it feels like we've never been in this many foreign conflicts at the same time, which is just mind boggling. One thing I want to, which I know you talk about, which I found really fascinating this week, was the comments Trump made about Iran having a nuclear weapon versus and Trump not caring about the. I forgot the exact quote, but the finances, the economics of the American people. I heard Lindsey Graham double down on that this weekend. Trump has doubled down. And actually, you know, I sort of went back and forth a little bit on where my head was at. But I'm curious Sort of what your take is, is on that and has changed a little bit in the last 24 hours or since he first said it.
- [14:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think my take on it is that it's going to be played in an ad for any Democratic candidate in a swing district across the country. That's my take. Right. Will it actually move the needle today? No, but will it move the needle in November after being played on television and on YouTube and all these other places every, every like five minutes? Yeah, I mean, it'll, it'll get beat into the heads of voters, especially in these swing districts. So the issue, I mean, like, I think in this 20, 21st century kind of news environment, the news report or the initial quote is never, never goes viral, is never the thing. It's always like it's clips. Right. And if people can clip you saying something in a certain way, then the clips will take off. And in that case, you're never going to hear the second half of a statement where he says, I'm just doing it to hope Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon. You're just gonna hear the first half played over and over again. Both sides do it, but that's what's gonna end up happening.
- [15:47]
A
You're implying the Democratic Party is gonna get its act together and actually message something properly. That's a, you're really, I mean, listen,
- [15:54]
B
it's such low hanging fruit. If they could screw it up here, they don't deserve to be in power.
- [15:59]
A
I'm gonna be honest with you now. I wanna, I'm curious on your perspective on this. And I found myself over the last, since Trump's come in office. I hate to go so far as saying, defending him from time to time, but I personally went through my own journey of not being willing to speak to anybody who was voting for, who wanted to vote for Donald Trump, to realizing that's just not a way you can go around in life. In our country, in a democracy, you have to be willing to talk to people and try and understand where they're coming from. There's something to be said if, and this is, I think part of where Trump goes wrong all the time is if the people of the United States can agree and are elected officials that Iran having a nuclear weapon is without question the most dangerous thing to our country long term, then short term, economic pain or other pain is potentially worth it. And we've seen that in history. And I guess the question is this another place where Trump has really just gone, has tried, has acted as a king and tried to go through things without support, without congressional support, without political support, and just is going about it wrong. And he's actually not that wrong. What he's saying or what's your take?
- [17:26]
B
Well, I'm not going to debate whether he's wrong or not. I think for me, it's the way what he did, what was wrong with the way he did it was he didn't have, like you said, he didn't have any support. I think his responsibility as president, if he wants to bring the country into any war, whether it's Iran, Venezuela, wherever, is to prosecute that war to the American public, to show the American public why we're going to war, what needs to be done, what the intelligence says, lay it out, whether it's valid intelligence or not. Bush did it really well. When he drew America into war in the Middle east, it was wrong. It was faulty intelligence. Right. The New York Times helped push America into war, but he did it, and that's why he had 90% approvals at the time the war in Iraq began. Now, fast forward 20 years later, Trump didn't prosecute the war. He just said, you know what? Screw it. I don't need American support, I don't need congressional support, I don't need support from the international community. I'm just going to do it because I want to do it. And now you're in a quagmire 20 years after an initial quagmire. Not because the intelligence was maybe faulty, which it very well could have been. I don't know what the intelligence said, but because the President made a rash decision without any backing from the public, the international community or Congress.
- [18:44]
A
Right, Yeah. I mean, that's in general. I mean, that's sort of his M.O. right? It's just like he doesn't. I mean, that's the irony of Trump is that, and we've talked about this a bunch before, is that if he had just, if he just went about things and actually tried to get political support and go through and get things passed in Congress and he has both House and Senate, he would get these things passed. He just has no interest in it. He just wants to play kingmaker. He doesn't want to go through traditional politics, and he cares more about the blustery statements and the grandiose ideas and social media hits that he does about getting things done, for sure, which is just such an unusual. I mean, everything about him is unusual when it comes to, again, there's so many other foreign, foreign conflicts we can get into. I'd love to get, you know, sort of your perspective. Obviously, you know, the war in Russia and Kyiv is something that's very personal to you. Do you. I mean, how is your thought process about that when you're relaying information out to people? Like, where. Where are you getting the. I mean, you talked about the place you're getting that information, but what are you seeing in that conflict now that maybe we're not seeing?
- [20:04]
B
It's not that. Nothing that we're not seeing. It's just nothing that's not really being reported on anymore. I mean, it's a stalemate to the point where nothing's really happening. I will say, though, that for the first time in April. In April. For the first time in four years, Ukraine actually won in terms of the amount of land it captured versus the amount of land Russia captured. So for the first time, the pendulum started swinging the other way. I mean, listen, it's a war of attrition. Thousands and thousands of people are dying every day on the battlefield. People are still getting bombed in Ukraine regularly. And so it's a very sad situation, and unfortunately, sad situation that most of the international community just kind of stopped thinking about, or at least most of them in the United States, they've stopped thinking about them. Most folks here.
- [20:46]
A
Yeah. I guess that. That leads me to another question about how you decide what to report on. Because, you know, you have, as you've said, I mean, you have so much to cover on a daily basis. I mean, the, the flood the zone strategy that Steve Bannon put out there continues to work daily. It's, you know, so hard for something to stick in the news cycle for more than 24 hours, which is wild because, I mean, if we get back to Kiev and Ukraine and Russia. I forgot, I don't know the accurate number, but the, the, the number of children that have been abducted by Russia is. I mean, it doesn't even when you say the number, I don't know if you have a more up to date number. It just doesn't make sense.
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B
Thousands. Yeah, I mean, it's thousands. So it's. It's really bad.
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A
Yeah, but it's just not talked about ever. I mean. No. And, you know, you kind of think on the one hand, it should just be the first thing that's said every day. Like there should. Like there should. The New York Times should never print a cover page without a counter of how many children have been abducted. Right. People. But.
- [21:52]
B
Yeah, but I mean, listen, you could say that, but then I want you to just, like, run down 10 other stories that happened just in the past 72 hours. And one would argue they have to be front page news as well. So. And if you count up all of them over the past 16, 18 months, that's tens of thousands of stories that like that need to be covered. So I get, I get why they don't have a ticker because you also have a ticker. You need to have a ticker for everything at that point. I mean, there's so many things happening.
- [22:21]
A
How do you determine what to report on and what to in essence kind of call back to, let's say, because I mean again, there's, you know, the, these conflicts as you just said. Right. There's so many things going on, it's hard to keep up and every 24 or 48 hours there's something new that's just catastrophic and you can't believe it's happening. But. And do you find yourself kind of going back from time to time almost to remind people, I mean again, that you can only do so much right, and you're trying to provide very matter of fact information of what's happening on a daily basis. So what, how do you balance that?
- [23:02]
B
I mean, I don't. But no, truthfully, I mean any, and I, and I get ridiculed about this when I say this, but it's the honest truth. It's if I can understand the story in five minutes or less, reading it, processing it, understanding it, I'll cover it. If I can't, I won't. I mean that, that's really the, I just don't have the capacity or the time to do major like large scale deep dive investigative pieces. That's not who I am and that's not what I'm doing. So it's really just kind of the fast paced, quick stories.
- [23:32]
A
Yeah, no, listen, I think I know you don't care about anybody ridiculing you because otherwise you would have stopped doing this a long time ago after the first video you put up. I wish there was. And I'm going to add this to your list of things to fit in your day, but I do wish there was just some. We continued to get some of these stories out there and there's so many of them and figure out ways to keep people remembering. I mean, and again to your point, there's like, where does it stop? And there's people being slaughtered all across the world that people just forget about. I mean, I've worked on, I'm a producer and I've worked on a couple of projects in Nigeria and what's happening in there is just horrific and it's just like it's everywhere. But it's just. I feel like it's important for people to get assistance in remembering what's going on here in the US and then also around the world and not always just moving on to the next topic. The next topic to try and keep up.
- [24:46]
B
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, and that's why at least on my substack where I'm able to kind of do more longer form pieces, like even on the Epstein files, I always kind of come back to them every now and then to make sure they're still top of mind and try to bring a new perspective to them when I can. And so I do do kind of the more broad strokes every now and then. It's just. It's hard. But yeah, yeah.
- [25:08]
A
Do you have topics that you personally are just really focused on? If I said to you you can only cover three topics for the next month, but you get to choose what they are. Are there three areas you can be as broad or as narrow as kind of you wanted to be and nobody would get mad. Nobody would get mad at you. You just get to cover them as your heart desire. It could be like knitting, if you really like knitting. But like, no. Like, what are three. What are three topics in the news that. That you just. That every time you're kind of, you know, that you're really energized. It's a focus of yours. The Supreme Court. The.
- [25:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think number one, definitely top is anything Epstein related. I have read hundreds of thousands of files. I know those files like the back of my hand. I talked to dozens of survivors. I know the case very well. And so definitely that's top of mind right now. I think number two would be the Supreme Court, but not just the Supreme Court in like, oh, here's a Supreme Court opinion, but rather kind of the court system as a whole and how it's actually stood up, in my opinion, over the past 18 months to a lot of attacks on democracy. The courts have. Have been a line of defense and talking about that. And then number three, something that I'm really kind of interested in right now are data centers and the rise of data centers and the impact of data centers on local communities, especially black and brown communities in, for example, Memphis, Tennessee and elsewhere, where they're really like polluting the air as we speak. So those are kind of the three top mind.
- [26:44]
A
That's great. I think that's a really interesting the data center component. I mean, we all talk about AI. It's not talked about enough because I think it's still. People are still talking around, you know, one of the most important issues, which is just what is going to happen to the workforce. You know, I use AI regularly now, but, you know, people kind of just sort of, I think, make a casual mention of, you know, there's 15,000 jobs being cut by this company or that company, and they just. No one seems to have a very sophisticated, sophisticated plan of how the government is going to address that. I don't know if you've seen something that I'm missing or somebody out there that you.
- [27:26]
B
No, I haven't. And I mean, it's a real problem. It's a real problem.
- [27:30]
A
I mean, even Dario and Claude, who I'm a fan of as much as you can be, he likes to mention it more than anybody and the dangers of AI. But then it's sort of just one comment amongst a bunch. It's sort of. It's almost like an afterthought how, I guess, you know, obviously you're. You've got your finger on Gen Z more than most people. I saw this clip that I in the background about Eric Schmidt mentioning AI in a graduation speech and getting booed at one of the colleges. What, what are you seeing in your comments and the feedback you're getting about how scared that generation is about AI, how they're looking. Islamic Center.
- [28:19]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think my generation is very scared of AI, but we also use AI more than any other generation. I think about it often, and not even my generation, I would say younger than me because I didn't have AI in school. I think about it now, I don't know how I would go through school with AI as a concept, with ChatGPT as a thing that existed. I wrote my own essays, right? Like, I had to edit my own essays. Now with AI, I mean, it's. Everyone's using it in some way, shape or form. I'm of the belief that AI is a good thing to a point, right? Like, if it helps, use it, but use it ethically and use it responsibly. You can't just say ban all AI because if you do that, then you're gonna have so many advances in other countries and other areas and you're gonna lag behind here in the United States. But at the same time, AI cannot trump protecting lives, for example, or protecting the environment in certain respects. So it's a balance. And a lot of young people are trying to find where they stand on that balance.
- [29:25]
A
What are the other things, other foreign conflicts that are happening right now that are not in the news that you think need to be covered more or need to be.
- [29:37]
B
Be talked about more that are not being covered in the news to be talked about? Definitely recently, what was happening in South Sudan, and I mean, and I say this, I haven't even covered it much myself, but the genocide that was occurring in South Sudan recently, that hasn't been covered really, at all. When I say foreign conflict, I don't think this is a foreign conflict as much. I don't think the Ebola outbreak that we're seeing right now in East Africa is being covered enough by media. I think it's interesting that everyone was covering the Hantavirus as though it was the next pandemic. And then we actually have a serious disease that is killing a lot of residents in Africa or in the Congo and in Uganda, and it's kind of silent across the board. So that's something serious that not enough people are covering. Yeah, I mean, what other conflicts are there that aren't being covered? Like, I think, for example, Iran's being covered very, like, a lot. Ukraine's being covered a lot. I think what's happening in Gaza is being covered a lot. As far as ones that aren't being covered a lot, I'm not sure.
- [30:42]
A
Yeah, I think that list could go on and on. I think it feels like, you know, Israel, Gaza, sort of. I don't know where that even fits in the coverage today. I mean, it's sort of like. I feel like it's tangential to Iran, but it's not obviously front and center in the same way. I guess I'd love to talk a little bit about media overall, because to me, I find that really fascinating. I mean, you know, we just. The last election, you know, they dubbed the podcast election. Right. You know, you're seeing. We're in a. We're in a place right now when it comes to media where it's, you know, it's been transitioning, but it's. It's really now sort of reached a whole other level. You know, when you start seeing traditional media, you know, personalities move over to substack or they're becoming independent journalists, I am always curious where people get their news. I think that's really fascinating. It's very hard for people. I'm one of these. I'm a Luddite still. I get a bunch of physical papers still sent to my house, which I think is good for society. Although I'm sure it's killing trees and bad for something. But I do think there's a benefit to. To print. Are. Do you think. Is there a place going forward for traditional cable news? Do you think there's a place for traditional kind of legacy media? Do you think there's a world where we get back to sort of having some sources of news that in general, the majority of people can kind of agree upon is. Is a place to get facts from? Do you think we're past that?
- [32:24]
B
No, of course I think there's a place for legacy media. I mean, even today, there is a. There is a potential mass shooting, shooting at the Islamic center of San Diego right now. Just neutralized threat minutes ago. You go to mainstream media for that. You go to legacy media for that. I don't have updates for that. I'm not on the ground. NBC 7 is from San Diego. Right. Like that is legacy media. That's where you go. So I think that there will always be a place for legacy media and there should be a place for legacy media and that we should work together in this space.
- [32:54]
A
And do you think. I always talk about how to have a properly functioning democracy? There has to be some way to get facts and information out to the people who are voting, to the citizens, the people who make it up. It does seem like it's getting trickier and trickier to have a place where people can go to. And they just in general believe that it's fair, accurate information. Do you. Do you see that?
- [33:23]
B
Of course. Yeah. 100%. I told you. Before we start, do you mind if I record quickly?
- [33:28]
A
Go for it. Go for it. I love it.
- [33:30]
B
You want me to mute it or.
- [33:31]
A
No, no, don't mute it. All right.
- [33:35]
B
We have breaking developments right now regarding the horrific shooting at the San Diego mosque this afternoon. Here's what we know right now. The threat has been neutralized according to local authorities. According to NBC 7, two suspected shooters have been shot dead as of this hour. And according to the New York Times, which spoke to the chairman of the mosque, there is confirmation that a security guard at the mosque has also been killed. So it appears as though one person has been killed alongside two suspects. Two suspected shooters have also been neutralized. Patients are now being treated at a local hospital, the Sharp Memorial Hospital, and disaster procedures have been activated. And the hospital is saying in a new release that it's coordinating with the county of San Diego and other resources to respond to this incident. Obviously, a horrific incident. A horrific day in San Diego. There's a Preschool at this mosque. When we get more information, I'll have it for you. But the threat right now has been neutralized by authorities. I'll have more updates soon. Follow for more. Okay, Beck.
- [34:40]
A
I, I mean that, I mean, just another shooting. Just. I. It's just, I cannot believe that we. This is the, this is the world we live in. Where. And it's. Again, back to what you're talking about. It's just, it's just common. We're used to every day being a shooting and. But I, I mean the, the. So thank you for getting that information out and, and your ability to just so clearly and concisely deliver that news is so valuable. So we're lucky, we're lucky to have you as someone reporting on that.
- [35:17]
B
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [35:21]
A
Do you. Since, since obviously that was relationship shooting, I've been gun controls on my mind, as it should be on all of our minds all the time. But again, it's hard to. There's a show that's. There's a one man show in Los Angeles right now that just ended called Guac, which is about a guy named Emmanuel. Oliver created it and it's about his son Joaquin Oliver, who got, who was killed at Parkland. And you know, again, that's a topic where it's just every. You know, and I blame myself too, to some extent. I've sort of. I don't want to irritate my political relationships, but I kind of want to wake up every morning and just have a scheduled send of a text of like five things, which is like, what are you doing about gun control today? What are you doing about AI today? You know, what are you doing? Yeah, you know, gerrymandering. Do you see? You know, when I talked to Manny, I asked him, I said, what's the one thing you'd like to see change when it comes to gun control right now? And you know, you have, you know, background, universal background check. All these things we've heard about. He said, if you could just do one thing. What I'd want people to do is just have safe storage. That's all I want.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah.
- [36:37]
A
Because he's like, that's something that I think I don't want to take. I don't want to take away his guns. That's too complicated. But safe storage would save countless lives. Do you see anything in what you're reading or what you're reporting on or who you're hearing from that you think that were there's any hope to make a dent in that Fight?
- [36:59]
B
No. And the reason why is not because there isn't support for safe storage across party lines, but because no one cares enough about it to do anything about it. I mean, that's the truth. Unfortunately, there have been 150, 149 mass shootings just this year. You haven't heard about 149 mass shootings. Right. Most people haven't. There have been, I think over 200 or over 300 incidences of gun violence deaths this year. Most people have maybe heard of one or two. The issue is it's become so normalized in our culture and in our society that no one's actually going to do anything about it because no one really seems to care anymore because it's just part of our daily lives. So I mean, I would push back on Manny just a little bit and say I think the best thing for gun violence prevention is to bring more eyes onto gun violence, which is what he's doing, and bring more attention. Because if, if it is first it is, if it is front of mind for everyday Americans, then you'll see some movement. But until then, I don't know.
- [37:55]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's the tough thing, right? Manny's got a one man show that he's performing in front of a couple hundred people and doing his part. I made a film called Parkland called Us Kids, which was about the Parkland shooting. That was a documentary that we couldn't get any traditional distributor to buy because they don't want to focus on issue oriented projects, whether narratives or nonfiction. So, you know, he can do his part. But, but you're right, I mean, you know, you look back, I mean, at some extent you sort of have to think about how did this, how did this, the flip switch. And Manny talks about the cigarette industry. You know, you have, you know, things like safe seatbelts and cars. I mean, there were times when things were able to make a change. So it's happened before. It just, I can't fathom how we can normalize gun violence and how politicians can allow, can allow it to not be top of mind. I mean, it affects everybody. It affects. I hate to make it partisan, but you know, it, it, in my work that I did it, it does feel like more Republicans are pushing back against sort of seemingly obvious changes that could be made to help kind of curb some of this. And it affects red states as much or more than blue states, 100%. And I guess it just sadly comes back to money, which is what so much of this comes back to.
- [39:32]
B
Yeah, I mean that is what it is, 100%.
- [39:35]
A
Yeah. Let's get into gerrymandering a bit because that's top of mind for, for all these elections. Now coming up, are you, you know, now you, you know, you keep hearing you talked about Trump's approval ratings. Would you mind repeating what you talked about this weekend on how bad Trump's approval ratings are right now?
- [39:56]
B
Yeah, his approvals hit 37% disapprovals this morning, which is the lowest it's been thus far. But the numbers that I think are even worse for him are he's at 28% approval rating for cost of living related issues, 31% or 32% on the economy that those numbers, I mean, you can't win an election with those numbers. And it's kind of translated already to congressional approvals in the sense of the generic ballot. And the New New York Times Siena poll, which got the midterms last time around, 2022, pretty much accurately, Democrats are up 11 points. If that result holds, you're going to have a landslide like we really haven't seen in modern day politics, which I don't think that'll hold. I think it'll tighten up between now and then. But I still think Democrats are pretty much in the driver's seat at this point.
- [40:46]
A
Do you think that, you know, we're seeing with gerrymandering and these districts, do you think there's any chance that enough, enough sort of districts can be reworked to actually keep off a kind of blue wave they talk about?
- [41:03]
B
No, because at a point you're going to get what you call a dummy mander, which is what I think is going to end up happening in states like Florida where you gerrymander so much in an effort to try to draw so many red states or so many blue states that the counter actually occurs. Because what happened in Florida is you take a map where you have overwhelming Republican districts and add four more Republican seats. Well, those four Republican seats, you're taking red areas from deep red Republican seats already in existence. And so a seat like Mario Diaz Bellard, Florida, 26, I believe, or 25, that's a seat that's R +20 in a typical year, R +30, he's going to win by landslide. But now it's maybe R plus 8 or plus 10 and a blue AV, he could actually now lose his seat. So you actually end up potentially putting more seats into play by gerrymandering too much.
- [41:55]
A
Yeah, that's a great point and nice to hear. I have a friend of mine who's Running for Congress in CA 40 Esther Kim Barrett. And she was. When the district read John, her instant reaction was she was going to just. There was no, there was no chance of her being able to win. But because of the approval ratings, because of the opportunities, because there's two Republicans kind of fighting now against each other. There's actually, she actually has a real shot which is, which is really exciting. So back to just the, you know, your sort of what you're doing and your media. I mean you're, you're on every, you're on every form of media you could be on Sense of spot, substack, Instagram, TikTok, Midas Touch podcast. What do you. What's the number one way to get your news across? I mean Is it TikTok still? Is it what's just depends on the.
- [43:00]
B
I mean I think they all serve a purpose. Facebook has really good distribution nowadays. I mean it just, they all kind of, it's all great. But yeah, TikTok or Instagram probably the primary.
- [43:11]
A
Right? Yeah. In line with that too obviously you mentioned Twitter, also known as X threads is something. Where do you see that sort of X and going forward, I mean you obviously get a lot of information out of there. Is it critical to use like what's.
- [43:35]
B
Where all the journalists are still. So I mean it's still until everyone leaves. I mean it's not going away anytime soon. So I think it's still an important kind of place to be. I'm there. It's important to be there.
- [43:46]
A
And do you think there's any chance that does change or. No, no.
- [43:50]
B
I mean there's no other platform that, that can rival Twitter in the sense of just like the product that it gives for users in terms of short form content like that.
- [44:01]
A
Got it. I'm going to go to one of our guests to ask a question. Alvi Hurtado. Alvi, are you. Are you here to ask a question? Great.
- [44:10]
B
Hi.
- [44:11]
C
Great to meet you, Aaron. We're big fans. My wife and I were both separately subscribed to your subsector.
- [44:18]
B
Thank you.
- [44:20]
C
Very romantically. We read it together. Also a big fan of the good news section on Sundays. Like that is certainly something we need more of. I'm super curious about your audience and if you could speak to a little bit about who it's made up of primarily. I feel like it's kind of an obvious answer but why do you think that is? And in an effort to like be the party of like the big ten party or whatever, like I get fed as much. You Know Chris Cuomo as Hasan Piker. And like, so many divisive things within the party. I was wondering if you could, like, speak a little bit into, like, how we can move forward as a unified party and what your experience.
- [45:06]
B
Yeah, no, I mean, so I'll talk about my audience first. Thank you so much for subscribing, for watching and tell your wife thank you as well. As far as my audience goes, it's interesting. We actually did an analysis, my management team a while back about just my TikTok followers alone. And this was about a year ago, about a third were conservative. So it was actually a decent chunk that were on the right. I wouldn't say any of them were MAGA conservative. Right. But I would say that plenty of them are center right. And I get messages all the time from Republicans saying, watch your content. Thank you so much. So there is cross party appeal, which I think is important. I think, though, as far as Democratic Party and fixing it and being a big tent, I'm a big believer that, that anyone who claims to be a Democrat is registered a Democrat is part of the party. Right. Whether you're the center or whether you're the far left, and that's it. And people go on there. If you want to go on a show, you go on a show. If you don't want to go on a show, you don't go on a show. I mean, the fact that Hasan Piker has become even a story is a problem in and of itself. Because who the hell cares about Hasan Piker outside of these spaces online, right? Like the average voter in middle America isn't going to say, yes, I'm voting for you because you went on Hasan pike or you didn't go on Hasan Piker. Like, that's not what people care about these days. And so even making these things a story are a problem, in my opinion. I think people need to kind of a lot of people in the Democratic Party political class need to go and touch grass and go outside a little bit and see what the real world is like and then go back on Twitter later on.
- [46:42]
A
Alvy, thank you for that question. I do think you and your wife probably need to find a couple other more romantic things to do. No offense to Aaron's work. I do want to reiterate everybody to make sure you sign up and become founding members of Aaron Substack. I just, I just, while, while we were here, I just upgraded to founding member because I think it's critical. I'm a substack. Don't take this the wrong way, but I am a little bit of a substack sucker. And the same thing goes for Beehive. And I think anybody who's out there as an independent journalist, it's critical that we support them and pay for subscriptions because they need that to keep going. And I think that it's, you know, I do believe really in legacy media that like you said earlier, but I think these independent voices are critical to get out there and really be on the ground and giving different perspectives. Do you see any positive trends in people beginning to kind of communicate to each other across party lines today? Do you think the echo chambers are getting worse? Are there glimmers of hope? Are there. You see the rise? I've heard about the rise in church going again recently. Are there things like that that you look at that give you some pause for optimism?
- [48:12]
B
Yeah, yes and no. I mean, I think where I get a lot of my optimism from is genuinely like walking outside and talking to my neighbors. Right. Like, at the end of the day, there's so 80% of the country agrees on 80% of the issues. And I still firmly believe that. I see that every day when I talk to people, when I talk about to folks on the right, when I talk to folks on the left, there's so much more that people agree on than disagree on. And I think that sentiment still exists outside of the partisan echo chambers that we see in these online spaces. I think, unfortunately, the most controversial voices are often the loudest voices and are. And that's not always productive. And so as far as where I see hope, I don't. I. I see hope in just kind of my day to day interactions. I think. I don't know that I see hope in the rise of religion or organized religion in any way. I mean, if that's bringing people together, great. But I think for me it's more of just community building on the ground.
- [49:07]
A
But I guess the question is, do you see that happening? I mean, with your audience? You do?
- [49:11]
B
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. See it happening all the time.
- [49:15]
A
And why do you think it's happening more now? Are there things, specific things you point to?
- [49:19]
B
No. I mean, I think people are just realizing that, like, hey, maybe it's time that we work together and that we. I think that there was just like, especially after the 2024 election, there was this overall sentiment of like doom and gloom from at least on the left. And I think now that we're 18 months post the election, I think people are turning around and Saying, you know what? I'm trying to find hope in this situation that happened or in that situation that happened and someone else jumps in. And these online spaces give you the opportunity to kind of build community that way. And that's what's happening, I think.
- [49:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, my prayer and I've seen some memes about sort of Gen X dreaming about the, of vinyl and analog experiences. I actually am optimistic that in this world of rapid AI ification of our daily lives, I think technology is going to play even a bigger role. But at the same time, I think there's going to be more desire to get out and to congregate with people. I mean, that's why you see, see concerts, you know, just continuing to take off, or sporting events or live experiences. People realize how critical that is. And I hope that's a place where people can talk to each other and start to, you know, learn from other people with different backgrounds and different points of view. You know, that used to be, I think, a bit of a place where college could place play a role. I don't know how that, how that shapes up going forward. I think, you know, experience of going to college more now than ever is critical. What is your perspective on that? Obviously having, you know, I mean, I get you were, you were, you were, you were not. You didn't have the usual college.
- [51:09]
B
I actually, I mean, listen, I've, I don't, I don't think college is for everyone. I think that we need to promote trade schools. And I think if people can build a career without getting a degree and having to strap themselves with a bunch of debt, so be it. Go do it. I don't think colleges for everyone.
- [51:23]
A
Well, yeah, I mean, I guess my thoughts, you know, sort of, you know, are not taking the debt component of college per se into account. But I think, I guess my point is any ways we can get kids out together, learning, challenging their minds. You know, Scott Galloway, you're kind of co host, you play, who you play reliever for, I guess, as we say, likes to talk about how important college is important, the importance of storytelling as we move into this kind of digital era. But at the same time, the economic industrial complex of college is just an embarrassment. So I guess I'm seeing this sort of, you know, this, this idyllic version of college that may not just be possible, but I think there is something really critical about that experience. So we'll see. Are there? Anyway, I really appreciate all you're doing. I think it's, it's really amazing. I don't know, your bandwidth is just unbeatable. What's some new stuff that you think kind of going forward that you're working on? I know that you're obviously filling in from time to time arranging moderates. I know you don't have time, but
- [52:59]
B
Jessica Tarlov and I are launching a subsack exclusive live show starting next week probably. So that'll be fun. So tune in there. We're gonna be doing some stuff and then I have some stuff coming in the pipeline this summer and in the fall about some kind of more long form pieces that I'm working on. So can't really share much, but got it.
- [53:20]
A
And how do you, as far as just covering the elections coming up? I mean, are there any other things that you're trying to get a handle on and doing or is it gonna sort of, you have to kind of stick to your lane and I mean again, which is so many lanes. But.
- [53:34]
B
Well, I'm kind of just ready for primary season to be over because I don't, I don't really play in primary. So I'm going to let the primaries do it, do what they do. And then once there's a general election, I'll probably talk to all the candidates and that's kind of my thing.
- [53:49]
A
And are you seeing more signs that kind of scare you about sort of just traditional free and fair elections this, this fall or overall? Just do you think you.
- [54:00]
B
I think our elections are secure, elections are safe. I think that people will be able to vote. Now where I have fears are, I worry that there will be ICE agents at the polls and that will discourage certain people from voting. Doesn't mean that they can't go and vote, but it'll try to instill fear in them. But ultimately I think that the elections are going to be safe because states run elections, not the federal government. And I think a lot of people forget that.
- [54:27]
A
Aaron, I've taken up too much of your time already. You could have recorded 16 more videos, written six substack pieces and burped your daughter. So. But thank you so much and thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. You got a lot of fans and just want to say thanks again.
- [54:48]
B
Thank you means a lot and it's been great.
- [54:50]
A
Bye, everybody. See you soon. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Lunch with Jamie. As always, be sure to subscribe to my newsletter@jamieslist.com for my thoughts on all things food, pop culture, politics and more. And remember to join these online conversations and ask my guests questions in real time. Sign up to become a paid subscriber. You can listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify or Audible and be sure to leave a review. Thanks and see you next time.