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- [00:04]
A
On today's episode of Lunch with Jamie, we're sharing a conversation I had with Representative jasmine crockett in October 2024. You remember those days, right? The hope we were all feeling. We spoke about why she thinks Texas will go blue in the near future, Project 2025, immigration, why she's concerned for the American legal system and much more. Listening back, this is a bittersweet conversation. I'm not sure Jasmine could have imagined her state senators being forced to flee the state to avoid the GOP's mid cycle redistricting. Regardless, my hope is that you could listen to this and draw some inspiration to continue the fight. Now, here's my conversation with Jasmine Crockett from October 2024. We have the amazing Jasmine Crockett with us. I am so honored that she is joining us. I'm spoiled. I got to have dinner with Jasmine a few weeks ago in la, which was a real highlight of my, of my year. I mean, she is just so fun and so smart and so exciting to talk to and be with. As many of you seen her online, but not in person. So we're going to, we're going to, we're just going to hang, we're going to chat. Jasmine, I know you've been busy. Thanks. I know you just came from the, from, from work, from Congress. So thank you for making time. Meet all my friends and listen. Everybody knows a bit about you, but I would like to just go back a bit. You have, you've taken a bit of unusual path to how you got to Congress today from St. Louis to, to Texas. So I'd love for you to just kind of start with a little bit of how you got here and then we'll get in some questions.
- [01:38]
B
Perfect. Well, first of all, it's great to see you, Jamie. Even if it's virtually and we don't have good food, but nevertheless. Hello to Jamie and all of Jamie's friends. For those of you who don't know who I am, I'm Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett. I proudly represent Texas 30th congressional district, which is anchored in Dallas to Texas. I am in my first term. It feels like I've been here for the last 50 years though, fighting the good fight. But nevertheless, I will start off by saying that I hate politics. We can just kind of level set with that. I'm sure many of you on this call probably feel the same way, especially considering the turn that politics has currently taken. But I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri. I'm the child of a preacher and A government worker who has worked for the federal government for really the entirety of my life. And I grew up just kind of in this very simple family. Both my parents are college educated. But, you know, it was very simple things, kind of right versus wrong type of lessons that they taught me and to always just be thoughtful of other people. So I did tons of. I did everything that you could think of to kind of keep me out of trouble, from inroads to an organization called M.I.E.P. to the Del Teens, to. I did all the things junior achievement and so many others. I thought that what I would contribute to society would be that I would become an anesthesiologist. I thought it would be great to help people but not have to talk to them. So I wanted to put them to sleep. By the time I got to biochem 2 at 8am as a sophomore in college, I thought maybe not. And then I just did not know what I was going to do with my life at that point in time. My advisor told me all of my math, so I'm actually a STEM girl, I'm a math and science girl. And with all the math that I had accumulated on my transcript, if I wanted to get out on time, it would probably be best if I became a business major. And so then I decided I would just play with numbers and be a CPA and again, avoid people. Yeah, it kind of didn't work out that way at all. I ended up being recruited to go to law school by my mock trial coach, who became my mock trial coach, who recruited me after he saw me in Little Shop of Horrors and thought I would be great to mock trial. And so I agreed to try out for mock trial because he asked me to. I went out my junior year and I made the team. And then there were kids that were literally crying because they said they would not go to law school. And I was like, well, I'm not going to law school anyway, so I'll quit. And then he said the only way he'd allow me to quit is if I came back my senior year. I went back my senior year, became a National All American. And he said, now are you convinced that you should go to law school? I applied to law school, got a full ride with a stipend and said if I don't like it, I'll quit. And honestly, the rest has been history because it's been my legal career that has guided me into politics. And honestly, again, I hate politics. But if you want to fix the world for people, it comes through the law as Far as I'm concerned. And so I became a state lawmaker, and in my freshman term, my predecessor called me and asked me to run for her seat and decided she would retire after 30 years. And so here I am.
- [05:02]
A
I love that story. Since you. Since you brought up food and. And this is called Lunch with Jamie, I do have to start in one place. Since you have the St. Louis connection and the Texas question, I got to first ask you, are you a pappy's fan in St. Louis? No. Okay. All right, Jasmine, we're gonna have to work on that. And then the second thing is, what's your favorite barbecue so far in Texas?
- [05:24]
B
It is going to be down in Austin, actually. And tack on it. Pecan Lodge is in my head, but that's Dallas, and that's not my favorite. It starts with a F. I can't think of the name, but it's Franklin's. Franklin. Franklin. Franklin is the best.
- [05:42]
A
We can continue our friendship. Jasmine. So one thing you keep saying, I hate politics, and I kind of understand that, but I also don't. So what do you mean when you say hate politics? What does that really mean to you?
- [05:59]
B
For me, it means that there's what politics espouses to be, and then there's the reality of it. And so what I hate about it is I don't feel as if people have real representation on all levels of government because there's so many games that are played, whether it's gerrymandering lines so that people's voices aren't heard, or whether it's voter suppression bills or now we've moved on to voter subversion, where we're basically saying it's okay if you go out and vote, but we're going to snatch that vote. Like, it is a pure power grab. And I just don't think that I like that. I would rather have what government is supposed to be and politics is supposed to be, which is to be representative of the will of the people. When we look at what we're getting out of our Supreme Court and out of a number of these legislative bodies on the state level, it is not reflective of the will of the people. So I don't know who would like this except for those that are the power grabbers.
- [06:59]
A
I think that's really well said. And I was taking a flight from New Orleans to Charlotte yesterday and turned around, there's a guy behind me who had a Trump hat on. So I went to make a statement to sort of push back on that, and I put this hat on and I just. And. But then I thought to myself, I said, how could a hat that says vote be partisan? How could a hat that said vote be political? Right. Like, that's at our core, everybody should want to vote, but that's kind of not in the time that we're in right now. And I think that goes directly to your point. Which is. Which is a bummer. I mean, listen, I mean, we are so lucky and fortunate that you went from putting people to sleep to. I don't even know how to describe the opposite of that.
- [07:49]
B
At the level trying to make sure that I keep them woke.
- [07:54]
A
You are firing them up in a way that almost nobody else is doing in Congress. Obviously, you had some theatrics in you and your little Shabahara's play. And now, since I'm casting right now for my new movie, maybe we'll have to do a little casting after this. But I guess the. I guess the question is, like, where you obviously always had that in you, and that sort of what you've now brought to politics and brought to how you sort of communicate and has obviously helped you. But how did you. Have you kind of found your style as a member of Congress?
- [08:33]
B
Yeah. So one of the things that I did is I wanted to walk in and I wanted to be my own person. And. And I think it can be intimidating to walk into this body of, you know, 435 people, and there'd be so many people that you've seen and admired for years, and you're trying to figure out, do I model myself after them or what do I do? Because clearly they have some amazing formula because they've become this person that you watch and admire. But the reality is that I come from Texas, and Texas is different. It's different in lots of great ways and lots of crazy, bad ways. But I'm also, you know, only the fourth black woman to be elected to the U.S. house from the state of Texas. And I walk in a rich legacy. And we are all different in our own way, you know, starting with Barbara Jordan being the first one, and then the second one being my predecessor, Eddie Monice Johnson, and then Sheila Jackson Lee, who recently passed as well. It is a rich tradition of, you know, black kind of woman powerhouses that have come out of Texas and ended up on the federal level. And so while we're all different, there's something that's always kind of great about us. But I wanted to be kind of the modern version of these warriors that really paved the way as a civil rights lawyer. And understanding kind of where we've been in this country for some years. I really felt like my background was unique, from the civil rights work to the public defender work. And so there wasn't anyone that I could really just model myself after. I don't know that we've had another black woman that's been a public defender that has sworn into Congress. And so I thought, you know what? I've just got to be my own person and take the experiences that I've had. Being a trial lawyer has been very helpful in committee, that is for sure. That is usually what you see on full display, because I would typically walk into a courtroom and I didn't necessarily know what was going to come out of a witness's mouth, but I had to stay ready, so I didn't have to get ready. So, you know, I use those skills as well as when you are literally sometimes defending and trying to save someone's life in a trial, you know, you're dealing with this audience, and this audience is wide and it is diverse. And the only thing that they share in common is that they are from that particular jurisdiction. Other than that, they are all over the place. And so having the ability to communicate to all of them, regardless of their education level and things like that, I think that's what you see. So many people talk about my plain style of communication, and that is something that has always served me well in a courtroom. Because when I am trying to make sure that everyone understands my pitch as to why I don't want them to find my client guilty or why my client should be awarded a certain amount of money, I need everybody to understand what I'm saying. And so it's really served me well, my overall experiences. And that has kind of resulted in the culmination of what you see a lot of times in committee.
- [11:46]
A
If you could wave a magic wand, what are some changes you would make to either politics or Congress, or, you know, you can be as narrow or as wide as you would want.
- [11:57]
B
Yeah. So first of all, for sure, I'd get rid of gerrymandering, for sure. There would be some real acknowledgement. Basically, I would make sure that we've got some voting rights laws in place. Right. We'd reauthorize the Voting Rights act, and we would definitely look at the Freedom to Vote act, because it doesn't make sense that if I'm in a certain state, I have better access to deciding who will represent me on the federal level. From the president down to the Senate, down to the congressional members, we really do have people in different states that have better or less access to choosing who their leadership will be. And I think that we need to make sure that we democratize that across the board and that we have a level playing field and everyone has equal access to the ballot box. But also, you know, the fact that we've not reauthorized the Voting Rights act, which obviously came on the heels of the civil rights movement, it really tells you about where we are in this country. And I think that every other freedom that we're looking for and every other thing that would make people actually believe in politics, and it is born out of this access and, like, this realized full representation, which would come with some reforms around money. A lot of people right now are like, listen, you should run statewide and you should run for governor because your governor, Hot Wheels needs to go. And I agree he does need to go somewhere, but he is the longest serving governor that we've had in the state of Texas. We don't have any term limits whatsoever. We also don't have any campaign finance limits. And so it's easy enough for him to call and say, hey, drop $2 million, and somebody drops that money. And so we end up with this guy that really has this unchecked power, and it is really dampening who we are as Texans because he really bends to the will of those few very rich people that put money into his campaign coffers and the other 30 million of us in the state of Texas and end up with laws that really don't comport with what it is that we feel like are priorities. And what we feel like are the values that really make us great in the state of Texas. So everything that I would do would be reforming kind of what we do around kind of voting overall.
- [14:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, as I was just saying, it just. It's just. I'm still in shock why we're fighting so much to keep people from voting. It's very. It's so frustrating. And, you know, I've talked about. On the zoom, I've tried to kind of get people from different points of view on voting, but there is no point of view. Right. It's just like, give everybody the right to vote, make it as easy as humanly possible to vote. Seems like at the bare minimum, where we should all be starting. And that's the farthest from the truth, which is just upsetting. Let's get into Texas. I think we have probably a couple of people from Texas, but all eyes are always on Texas. So first, since it's a hot button issue, obviously. You got a very big Senate race going on between Ted Cruz and Colin Allred. I had a chance to meet Colin. He's a great guy. How are you seeing and what you can talk about about that race or just about Colin or Ted or whatever kind of perspective you can give on that.
- [15:19]
B
Yeah. So what I'll do is I'll stick to some more generality since I'm still in my good government job. I will say, demographically, Texas is blue as far as I'm concerned, which usually shocks people and makes people say, what, you're crazy. But we are a state of 30 million people. We're a majority minority state. We have more African Americans in the state of Texas than any other state. In the last census, we grew the state by a total of 4 million people. Of those 4 million people, 95% of them were people of color. A lot of people are actually moving from your great state of California into Texas. Whether it was Tesla or whether it was Toyota or just kind of the tech boom, we've always kind of had this tech connection between Texas and California. It's mostly Austin, but obviously chips were really big in Texas before they even became so big in Taiwan. And now, even with the Chips and Science act, we now are getting like another chip manufacturing facility, a multimillion dollar investment that's taking place in the state of Texas. And so when I think about just the overall makeup, yeah, Texas is blue. So I'm sure people are like, well, scratching their head, like, well, doesn't seem that way with the votes. Trump won the state by five points four years ago, and Ted Cruz lost the state or won the state by three points six years ago. And so as we continue to trend in the right way, that is why we see the terrible bills that come out of our Texas state legislature that are consistently trying to suppress the vote and minimize access for certain people to the ballot box. We have been 47th for voter turnout in the country. So just imagine what could happen if we moved up to 44th or 42nd. Goodness knows, if we got to the top 10, it would be on and popping. But it is also why the investments are coming from all over the country, because, you know, they're keeping up the perception that we are deeply read, but we're really not. And so, you know, when we go back to our rich tradition of the days of the Ann Richards of the world, because we will get back there. We will get there. It's just going to take some time. It's going to take Investments. And it's going to take belief, but I think that the data is on our side. So I think that all eyes are on Texas. Not necessarily. I mean, everybody's curious of what's going to happen, obviously, in that race, because I don't think that there's a question about candidate quality. I think that, you know, Ted Cruz, he is one of my senators and he is of poor quality. These are just the facts. Whereas Colin Allred is a lot more qualified, but also a lot more compassionate. And I think that that is what people are looking for in their leaders right now. As we have struggled, whether it was coming out of COVID or trying to make sure that we're very thoughtful about how we survive right now. Right. With increased housing costs, increased food costs, having people that understand and are extremely compassionate and looking for policy solutions, I will be just perfectly transparent and tell you that I actually work with my senior senator, Senator Cornyn. I do not work with Ted Cruz. And it's not because I'm unwilling to. It's because he's unwilling to. And I think that at some point in time, we've got to get back to the point that Democrats and Republicans, while they may not see eye to eye, are at least agreeing that governance should always be the goal. And we've really gotten away from that. So overall on this race, I guess we'll see. I can tell you the recent polling came out last week that had Colin Allred up one point, and then there was a poll that came out maybe today or yesterday that had them down three points. It will be a tight race, but honestly, the Democrats should run away with it based on everything that I know about the demographics of our state. But it is really tough, and it's tough because they have created a lot of obstacles to make it tough.
- [19:31]
A
So let's get your, your, your Vegas odds here. When will Texas go blue? Will it be the next presidential election?
- [19:39]
B
I think depending on how close this election is, I think it could be. As someone who serves in my special capacity that I won't specifically mention right here. But it is my goal that we perform well enough and we know that the infrastructure and the investments aren't there. So, you know, looking at a potential second term, looking at potentially being able to expand the map, I am going to push very vigorously to get investments as we are planning for the next four years. So I do think that we could get there in four years.
- [20:20]
A
Well, you will be one of those reasons as people flock to support you nationally, I'm not moving to Texas anytime soon. I do like your state, but primarily for barbecue. You mentioned Senator Corden, and I'd actually love to talk to you about your experience working across the aisle. That's partisanship. And the fact that we can't figure out a way to work together is something that is obviously very frustrating. So I'd love to hear about different ways you have and where you see some potential signs of optimism for you and what are you doing in your daily life to try and do that. I mean, people in policy used to play golf with people from the other side of the aisle. They used to have drinks. I used to have dinner. What's your how are you going to fix that and help change that?
- [21:12]
B
I don't know if I'll fix it, but but I will tell you that I am willing to get very creative to get rid of some of the folk that are extremely problematic. And so, you know, the thing is, I think government probably works best when everyone has a little bit of heartache and a little bit of happiness. When the bill comes out that probably is getting to where the American people are because we definitely are not a monolith. And again, I do think that representation looks like truly being a voice for the people. But with these extremely gerrymandered lines in some of these places, it's hard to get rid of some of the people that truly don't even espouse the views of their constituents. But you know, the races are over and done with in the primary and so long as you know you are a rebel rouser that's able to get money from all over the place, you are able to maybe take out someone who really would be more reflective of the entirety of the district. So I think number one, we've just got to approach this a little differently going forward because we're dealing with a different monster. So I have some creative thoughts about what those primaries should look like and where people should vote, that is for sure, especially when there is an open primary system. In addition to that, though, I think that it is important that just as often as I am clear about checking my colleagues, whether it's in committee or otherwise, I am always very transparent and honest about people that I can work with. And while my senior senator still takes issue with me having autonomy over my body and we disagree for sure on those things, that again should not be partisan and not all of them, but where we can find common ground. He does, and I at least appreciate that effort on his team as well as with him. To say, is this something that we can work on. So we've worked on fentanyl legislation together. We have worked on some food security and modernization legislation together. So I'm able to work on some things that, you know, he always tells me, if it's good for, you know, Texas, then bring it to me. At least come to me first. I don't want you to try to have to go and find a Democratic senator to carry it for you. And I appreciate that. I just appreciate having open dialogue and the ability to communicate. We don't get that from Ted Cruz. And so, you know, for me it's not so much about the partisanship, but I think that we've gotten to a point in which it's not just Democrats and Republicans. We got Democrats, we got Republicans and then we got maga. And so MAGA is parading as Republicans, but they're really co opting the party. And so I applaud those that are pushing back and do not want to go down that terrible rabbit hole.
- [24:21]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think the extremes in general extremes are just never helpful. And it's, which is very frustrating because it does feel like for the majority of issues, I always say this. I think most people can find common ground. I've been fortunate to be able to make movies in North Carolina and in Pennsylvania and Iowa. And I've always found that, that when you have a basic conversation with someone, you, you, you know, you usually your values kind of align in some, in most ways, except for very kind of issues. What since again, I don't know you that well yet, but I guess that you can be a bit frustrated by what people say to you behind closed doors and when the cameras are off and then how they act once the cameras go on. How have you been able to handle that? And how do you kind of in essence check people, you know, when they are in a meeting with you after they just came out of saying something completely different, either as a camera's catching them walking down a hallway or on a Sunday news show.
- [25:26]
B
Yeah, performative politics is a real thing around here, unfortunately. And I will say that, you know, earlier on there were a couple of times that, you know, there's a certain person, she definitely would come up to me, you know, after a certain kind of comment and say, you know, well, you know, I've got black people in my district and, and I really wanna be supportive of black people. And so I just don't think you understand me. And she would try to explain away and just be like, hey, we should really work on some legislation together, right? Anyway, I mean, there are some people that are just straight up toxic, that is, for sure. And other people, for the most part, people would probably be shocked about some of the people I'm actually very close to. And a lot of those relationships have actually been built on our congressional delegation trips. Trips. It's almost like, you know, all of the fakeness is dropped when we leave the country and we're having to engage in some level of diplomacy. For instance, almost every congressional delegation trip I've been on, we talk about climate change because our partners everywhere else are so concerned, and they're looking for our leadership, and we're talking about innovation, we're talking about all these things. And never once do any of my Republican colleagues pretend as if it doesn't exist. And I'm like, interesting. Maybe we should just have hearings out of the country and maybe we can start solving problems, because you guys acknowledge that it's an actual thing, but it's, like, not the cool thing to acknowledge science and data and facts when you're back here. And so, you know, every once in a while, I'll call them out. Usually it is when we're over there, I'm like, oh, oh, so you do know climate change is the real thing. You know, I'll usually do something like that. But. But I don't really understand, especially when they're telling everybody they got to have kids and have them more abundantly. I don't understand how you're not looking out for our future. It is beyond me. Or when we've had conversations, because we've talked about our numbers have been falling as it relates to exchange programs. We're not getting as many exchange students into the United States. And as our numbers are going down, China's numbers are going up, which means that there is this level of influence that is going on. Impressionable minds that we probably don't want happening. Like, we don't want the global leaders to kind of be trained out of China at this point. And it's interesting to see how quiet some of my colleagues get when we try to dig in and find out what are the reasons that people are not coming over to the United States like they used to. Well, one issue that's been brought up is the cost of education, and it's literally just too expensive right about now, which is something that Democrats are always talking about and always trying to help out on. But really interesting has been the conversations around gun violence. They are scared to send their children to the United States because of the level of gun violence that we have. And so, you know, I'm like, I don't understand how you guys hear this, and you don't want to fix it. This isn't coming from partisan folk. These are people on the outside looking in. And so, you know, there are those that I know understand. And I remember having a conversation one time with a Republican woman that was like, she felt so bad about voting against the LGBTQIA community because she's got so many friends that it truly affects their lives. And I was like, then don't do it. And she was just like, you know, but my constituents. That's what they want. And then I was like, maybe you should actually educate your constituents and give them the education that you have. So, you know, it's interesting, because when I take a vote, all of my votes are because I believe in what I'm doing. And some of these bills, a lot of these bills are imperfect. And so there may be things that I disagree with in the bills and things like that, but I'm very thoughtful about the positions that I take. And it's. And, you know, I tell myself that democracy looks like the people understanding that it's their seat, and if they dislike how I govern, then it is their absolute right to kick me out. Thus far, they've not decided to kick me out, but I am always willing and understanding of people rising up and saying, you are not representing my interest. And I do believe that they have the right to kick any of us out at any time.
- [30:15]
A
Okay. So I wanted to get back into gun violence. It's something you brought up. It's obviously affecting everywhere in our country. Is there any areas where you see any hope for some positive things to move forward in laws or changing of laws, whether it's in Texas or internationally? Is there anything that gives you hope in that area?
- [30:38]
B
No, no. No. I mean, I don't know what can be more insidious than children consistently being gunned down in schools? And if that doesn't move lawmakers, I honestly don't. I don't know what can or would move lawmakers. I mean, this is one of those things that it will take Democrats having all control to actually be able to make some sort of inroads. And even when it comes to the Senate, it would take a carve out of the filibuster to get it done. So I just. I just don't see how we get there. I think that. Not. I think. I know a number of Republicans were attacked for the bipartisan gun bill that did pass, and so they faced A lot of backlash over their vote for trying to do something, which was the first piece of legislation that passed in about 30 years as it relates to gun safety. And obviously, it did not go as far as we needed it to go, but it did some things. I just don't know how we get there. I just literally don't know why there's not an appetite to work on this when we know that it's really a big issue. And, like, even when we think about, you know, the incidents with Trump and the chosen firearms or they're not firearms, but the chosen weapons. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, if that doesn't motivate you, I'm just convinced that nothing will. Even when we talked to the former Secret Service director, when she came before our Committee on Oversight, and we asked if having these large weapons of war makes the job of Secret Service more difficult or not, and she refused to answer the question, I was like, girl, this is an easy question. They're asking you a lot of questions. This is a very easy question. Right? Like, these big guns that all of y' all are afraid of, that makes your job harder, period. It's like, it's. It's just what it is. It is what it is. Like, when we look at Uvalde and we hear why law enforcement failed to go in and save those kids, it was because they were afraid of the fire or the. He had a. No, he had ar. They were afraid of the ar. That's why they didn't go in. So I'm like, why is it that you're consistently passing laws that say people can walk up and down the street and they can just have these things on because, you know, the Second Amendment, like, that's just stupid. You know, I mean, law enforcement has come out against so many of these laws because there is not a tattoo on your forehead that says felon or bad guy or, you know, mental health crisis. There's nothing tattooed on your forehead that tells somebody. And if you then say law enforcement, you can't just walk up to them, because they've got every right to walk anywhere that they want to with these long guns. Law enforcement can't even approach them. They have no probable cause. It's terrible. I mean, it's insane.
- [33:44]
A
That's not surprising to hear, but obviously upsetting, because I would hope. I hope there's some optimism, but I don't see it as. Well, the thing that always surprises me is when you hear stats about the NRA and how the majority of NRA members support kind of Say, you know, you know, gun laws. Gun laws. But nothing seems to change that. That type of data really confuses me. I mean, again, it's big business and that's what it is. But it's just, it seems like the support is there from the constituents. Back to what you were saying about that, you know, one of your, the, the congresswoman who said that about our constituents. So I don't understand that part. When it comes to gun laws.
- [34:23]
B
Yeah. People just, again, it's representative government. Right. And it's, we do not have government that is responsive to the desires of the people right now. And that's why we have to have reform from anything from campaign finance reform to the gerrymandering issues, things like that. I mean, so many of the people that end up here are chosen by a significant minority of their district. Right. Like if you have a district that is drawn to the extent that it's like 60 or 70% of one party or the other. So if it's 70% Republican, and so we know a Republican is going to win that seat no matter who the Republican is. So that race is fought in the primary. Well, the 40% of people or the 30% of the district that is not Republican, they're definitely not voting in the Republican primary. And then we know if you're going to talk about low voter turnout, talk about a primary. Right. So we're talking about a significant minority of people that are making the decision for who will represent the entirety of the district. It's a really flawed system that we're dealing with right now.
- [35:34]
A
All right, we have about 15 minutes left. I want to have you touch on immigration. Obviously, being in Texas, I'm just blown away by hearing Donald Trump talk about immigration, hearing J.D. vance and talking about Springfield. And I, since I didn't make it to my JD Vance rally last night, I wound up punishing myself listening to a 90 minute Donald Trump rally, which is living in an alternative universe. But what is being down in Texas, I mean, we're getting this sort of theatrical version of immigration and on TV and. But your state obviously is a border state like California. It's obviously a critical issue for all. Where do you see some things that either you agree on with your Republican colleagues, where do you think there could be some changes? Obviously, I assume Cornyn was supportive of the border bill, at least off the record. I don't know what he said on the record, but what were your conversations with him post that border bill being, you know, not getting passed and other immigration related issues?
- [36:46]
B
Yeah. So we didn't talk about the border bill for sure because it wasn't anything that I was working on. And I'm not really sure if he was working on it either. So usually our conversations are more so about things that we're actually working on in our chambers. But I will tell you, I'd be shocked if Cornyn was not on board to support that border bill. I'm not saying that he told me or anybody else, but me feeling like I know him well enough, I feel like he would have supported the border bill. I will say that as a Texan, I am very rarely asked about immigration in my district. It's actually not a conversation. So it's wild that everybody else is like, oh, immigration. But again, we're a border state, so we've been dealing with immigration for a very long time. In fact, I think my district has the largest presence of DACA recipients of any district actually in the entire state. So lots of DACA folk that are in my district. And so, you know, honestly, we are very welcoming and helpful to everybody in the Dallas area. I will say that again behind closed doors. I remember a meeting with a certain business council that came in and wanted to talk to us in a bipartisan fashion and wanted to talk about immigration. And these businesses were like, we need y' all to fix this. And I think it is one reason that we started to see some movement is because businesses finally decided to come in and have these closed door meetings where they were like, hey, we have a problem. So the problem was that they don't have enough workers. And so when you're talking about these entry level positions, we've got so many businesses that are still struggling or whether we're talking about the manufacturing jobs and like all these different hospitality jobs. And as someone who serves on the agriculture committee, we've had tons of conversations specifically around farming. So everyone is coming to us saying, fix it because we need workers. It's kind of like when you start talking about Ohio, right? They needed workers. And so what did they do? They welcomed Haitians into Springfield so that they could actually help out their economy because they did not have enough people that were wanting to go and do the jobs. And so this idea of, oh, they're taking your black job, it is a lie. Right now we have more openings than we do bodies to do some of this work. And usually when I'm out talking to folk, I always ask them the question of how many of you are raising your children to be farmers? And I've not had a hand go up yet. And so knowing that I make the connection and I say, well, you're complaining about the cost of food. Who is it that you think is working the farm? Because you're not raising the next generation of farmers. And I make the connections for them about why our food costs are high. And so, you know, where we usually diverge is on how much money to invest and how to invest that money, whether it's around border security. You know, for us Democrats, we believe in technology. We don't believe in this arcane idea that a wall can keep somebody out. We believe in making sure that we've got the drone technology that we need and all types of things like that. To number one, be able to make sure that we are doing high level detection so that we know who the bad guys are and we can track who's bringing drugs and who's not. And to be clear, it's actually Americans that are bringing the majority of the fentanyl over. I think it's over 90%, but nevertheless, it's us. And then unfortunately, we take guns out of this country because we have a proliferation of them. And so we're sending guns to other countries and, you know, further harming them. But when it comes to investments in those caseworkers, in those judges, we disagree. The Republicans think we shouldn't be making those investments. They don't want to put money to support them. They would put money into supporting our officers. But the people that will actually make the system move quicker and more efficient, they're not really okay with that monetary support. And then again, on security, they would rather put money into a wall instead of into high level technology to make sure that we are able to detect and keep folk out that should not be here. So, you know, and again, behind closed doors, they are in agreement with bringing people into work. And so I, you know, how we get them into work. We probably disagree on that.
- [41:39]
A
I thought Mike DeWine did a decent job of trying to, you know, talk about how positive the Haitian community has been for Springfield with also without completely disagreeing with Trump and Vance, which is just a very interesting tightrope. Everybody's walking on that technology front. I know Will, Will Hurt didn't have that many fans, but, but he, I remember on a, I heard him once say, we don't need to invest in a border wall, we need to invest in Internet access. And that's how we'd be able to kind of stop the crisis at the border, which I thought was a really smart way to look at it. I'm going to go to Laura Gabbard, who's going to ask a question as we wrap up here. Laura, you should be able to unmute yourself, but you know, if you can't. There you go.
- [42:31]
B
Hi. Thank you for talking to us today. Congresswoman, in addition to campaign finance reform and gerrymandering and just to zoom way out, can you speak a little bit about other structural changes that you feel like we need to make in our democracy? Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of them can be found in the Freedom to Vote Act. And so again, you know, we've got states that have early voting, we have states that don't have early voting. In addition to when we look at, you know, states like California where they're going to send out ballots to everybody, we don't have that. We've got states that have same day voter registration. We need to make sure that we're maximizing access everywhere and employing kind of whatever the big kind of access points are. But in addition to that, you know, as a lawyer, I can't talk about democracy and leave out the courts. I mean, we have some structural issues with the courts in general. One of them has to do with the nomination of judges on the trial level. So for those of you that don't know, I know we oftentimes talk about the Supreme Court, which, you know, pains me to even think about. But on the Supreme Court side, people are used to seeing kind of those Senate hearings where they're going through for confirmation, but it's the same thing on the trial level. And what we are experiencing now is we have blue slips. It's another one of those traditions that's just messing us up. It's not law or anything. And because of the blue slips, basically any senator, any one of the two senators or both can say that they want to block nominations in their state. So right now, when we look at a state like Texas, we're down, I think at least nine judges. And they've just kind of been sitting there with these vacancies. And so they're getting to the point that the only type of nominees that they want to approve are going to be from their same party. And historically we get nominees from all the parties, but we're seeing the in the Republican states, they are blocking by using these blue slips, which again is not law. And so therefore we're missing out on trial judges and it's making the trial level to be more hostile. And then you have these crazy organizations that decide to pick the cashmerics of the world when they're Trying to go after mifepristone. Right. And so they're trying to kind of. And that's how also you end up with this kind of stacking effect of our judiciary. And so knowing that we have co equal branches of government, allegedly, and I say allegedly because obviously the Supreme Court decided to issue that immunity decision. So I am very concerned about the courts in general, whether we're talking about the trial level or whether we're talking about the appellate level, when I'm most specifically talking about the Supreme Court. And knowing that we need court reform now or yesterday, that's another way to help to preserve our democracy. So I am a member of the Court Reform Task Force, and we have three major bills that we're pushing. One is for term limits, one is to implement some sort of ethics for the Supreme Court. And the final bill is to expand the court. People think it's super duper radical to expand the court. But the court has been expanded seven times in the history of the United States. The last time was almost 100 years ago. So chances are we've grown just a little bit. And therefore, when we're talking about just kind of docket management, it would be helpful if we grew the court. But in addition to that, the level of complexity of our cases is being exacerbated, and it's only going to get worse as we're getting into some of this AI stuff. We really need to expand the court. So those are some of the things that I think could help to save our democracy. And if we were looking at definitely the term limits, then we know that there's going to be this continual churning and there would be less of an incentive to do things like what has been pronounced by candidate Trump, who wants to just basically have two more justices retire and then appoint two younger folk and give them lifetime appointments to really screw up our courts.
- [47:01]
A
Thanks for the answer, but doesn't project 2025 solve all of our problems in democracy?
- [47:08]
B
Yeah, exactly. It gets rid of democracy.
- [47:11]
A
Exactly. All right, I know you have to leave, so I would like you to leave us with two things. One, I would love to get inside your head a bit and understand how you are able to kind of create these moments. And I know you're not. They're coming from a place obviously of honesty and truth, and you're stating the facts, but at the same time, you've done a great job of putting people in their place when they need to be and keeping people accountable, which have led to kind of viral moments. Do you have any idea Those moments are happening in the moment. And then the second question is sort of just take us out on whatever kind of you think we've missed or you want to just kind of leave us with. Those are the two questions.
- [48:02]
B
Yeah. So the viral moments, you know, I actually. It's the last tweet that I put up because, you know, last week ended up being a viral situation. And I really took a moment to reflect and say, I don't understand. You know, I always have these amazing prepared remarks, and it's never my prepared remarks that go viral. It is always these unadulterated, unfiltered, very raw moments that lack maybe some perfection. But you know what? I think that the people recognize authentic passion, and I think that that is what kind of carries the day. And they also see my authentic frustration, because usually I will go off script because I am frustrated about what's going on. Because, you know, honestly, in my real life, my life was a lot simpler. Less death threats, more money in the bank, and just a quieter existence overall. You know, I didn't necessarily go places where everybody kind of knows my face. It was just a simpler existence. And frankly, again, I started this off by talking about I wanted to put people to sleep. So, like, while I historically have been an extrovert, I really like my personal time. I'm an only child at the same time, so I like my personal time as well. But people are happy to have someone that they believe is not out there puppeteering for anyone, but is honestly frustrated, just like they are and. And talks like a real person who's frustrated. The thing that I'll say as we depart is that it's important that we stay encouraged, because we wouldn't be hitting the headwinds that we're hitting right now but for the fear that there will be a crumbling of this minority rule that we're experiencing right now. Because that's exactly what it is. When you look at, you know, the Senate and when you combine the filibuster, I mean, it really gives this overwhelming amount of power to the vast minority of this country. Right. Because when you look at a state like California that gets two senators, and then you've got, you know, states that are smaller than D.C. that they won't give statehood to. Right. I mean, and you're looking at them being a red state. You know, we really are living under minority rule right now, and that is what's so scary. But I just believe, especially as we're going through this election cycle, that the people recognize that we deserve better we really do. We deserve a world, at least a country where women don't have to worry about dying as they're trying to bring a life into this world or otherwise. Right. Like, we deserve to actually pay attention to the experts and the scientists and trust them in their level of expertise, whether we're talking about the climate or whether we're talking about our food or whether we're talking about, literally, health care overall. So I do believe that better days are coming, but we've got to hold on and we've got to fight it out, and we can't let up because we didn't lose our rights overnight. This took time. And so I need everybody to be patient but also be diligent in making sure that we can get things back on track.
- [51:40]
A
Well, thank you. Since I'm not moving to Texas, I think you're gonna have to move to California so you can represent all of us. And we just appreciate everything you do. Keep being you and keep fighting for your constituents and for everybody. And I can't wait to see you again soon.
- [51:56]
B
Absolutely.
- [51:57]
A
All right, thanks, everybody. Bye, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Lunch with Jamie. As always, be sure to subscribe to my newsletter@jamieslist.com for my thoughts on all things food, pop culture, politics, and more. And remember to join these online conversations and ask my guests questions in real time. Sign up to get my paid subscriber. You can listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify or Audible, and be sure to leave a review. Thanks and see you next time.