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- [00:04]
A
This week, I sat down with former Congressman Beto o' Rourke from Texas. This guy truly is a rock star. Now, I think that was more of a criticism of him when he started out with his cover of Vanity Fair when he was running for president. But this guy actually was in a band. He was in a punk band. He said during our conversation that music saved his life. He is somebody who honestly fired me up, got me energized, gave me hope. I wanted to get out of the conversation and just go run through a brick wall. Have to say, I truly love this guy. He's exactly what we need in politics. And, you know, sure, he's a Democrat, but ultimately he's somebody who just wants the best. You know, you can't be from Texas and not be somebody who's open to all different types of people, all different types of religion, all different races, all different income brackets. You know, this is a guy who's gone and visited every county in the state, which, honestly, having spent a fair amount of time in Texas myself, visiting more cities probably than I have in almost any other state in the country and eating more barbecue at the same time is, you know, just somebody who's truly special. You know, we talked about, obviously, all the critical things. We talked about the Senate Democrats who ultimately broke from their ranks to pass the current cr. We talked about Donald Trump. We talked about the Prop 50 and gerrymandering and the Democratic Party. But, you know, if this guy doesn't give you hope for what's ahead, I don't know what can. I don't know when he's gonna run for office again. But this is the type of guy we need in politics. But at the same time, what we talked about is that it's just critical for people to be doing something every day, Right? It doesn't matter if you're running for office. Doesn't matter if you're donating to an animal shelter. It doesn't matter if you're knocking doors. It doesn't matter if you're just talking with your friends and figuring out ways that you can make an impact on a daily basis to. To help America get back on its feet and be headed in the right direction. You know, we've been heading in the wrong direction. This is a big week for the country with the pushing back against Donald Trump, and I'm excited for what's to come. I hope you love this conversation. If you've not subscribed to the Lunch With Jamie podcast, please do follow Rate it, Review it, share it with your Friends, now here's my conversation with Beto. Better.
- [02:21]
B
Welcome Jamie. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And hello to everybody that's out there right now.
- [02:28]
A
So first, since this is lunch with Jamie, we're going to start with a food question. It's very hard hitting and, and maybe the most challenging question of the day. If I come to visit you in El Paso, other than you making me your famous flank steak and you're taking me to a restaurant, where are we going?
- [02:48]
B
We're going to go to El Jacalito, which is on Myrtle. It's really kind of a locals only spot. And I would encourage you to order the talpeno soup that has chickpeas, garbanzo beans, chicken, avocado, chilies. And it's just the most amazing thing. And I've never had it anywhere else. I'm sure it exists other places but, but it's off the beaten path. You don't find any tourists there. They kind of go to L and J and some of the more obvious Mexican food spots. But that's where I'm taking you.
- [03:27]
A
I might need to head out there very soon. And it's frustrating though because as a Angelino, one of our things, that food is unbelievable here and especially our Mexican food. And normally I can just kind of push back when someone talks about anything related to any sort of Mexican food. But I'm not going to argue with you on this dish. Sounds extraordinary. I'm gonna ask one more non political question before we get into things. I know music is really important to you and something you talk a lot about. I heard you once tell a story about taking your son, I think Henry, to an Iron Maiden concert, which I just love. And then I listened and I heard your five songs with Brene Brown. Where you go from the Clash to Prince to Willie Nelson to Bob Dylan to the who. So I love your musical tast. How would you kind of, how would you kind of sum up your. Your, your love of music, your eclectic taste and where kind of music fits for you and your, your life?
- [04:28]
B
You know, I, I really think it saved my life. You know, like a lot of 15, 16 year olds, I was kind of lost. Didn't know exactly why I was on the planet to begin with. Didn't really seem to fit in or understand how to, you know, be with folks who were doing the things that were obvious and popular at the time. And someone took me to a punk rock show at this place called Sound Seas on Texas Ave. In El Paso and it just opened up and then blew My mind unlike anything that I've ever experienced. I mean, there were kids my age who were playing instruments just as badly as I would play them if I even had an instrument to begin with, but were from their heart telling these amazing shouting and screaming, these amazing stories. And the energy, the electricity, the fact that you could just do this. You didn't need any permission. Record label, you know, radio airplay, nothing. It was, it was so real, so awesome. I was born in 1972, so this is like early to, to mid-80s and everything is just corporate culture, especially on the radio and mtv. And this was like, it was like a door into a new world. And I later, you know, inspired by that, started a punk band, started a small record label, toured the US and Canada a couple of years in a row and absolutely loved it. And so much of the best part of politics reminds me of the best part of music of, you know, getting past the corporate control and what is safe or okay or factory approved to say, and speaking your heart and just being honest and real and going from town to town and just like small punk rock bands did back in the day, and connecting with people that you wouldn't meet otherwise in these intimate settings and, and opening up in a way that creates something greater than the sum of the parts or the people who are in the room at the time. And certainly, you know, running for city council, running for Congress, running for U.S. senate across the 254 counties in a. In a van with two other people, town to town to town to town, telling, but importantly, listening to people's stories, it felt like I was back at Soundsees in, you know, in el Paso in 1984. So, yeah, music saved my life in that way and certainly shaped my life and still does.
- [06:53]
A
That's amazing. And somehow I sort of missed that part of your story, which actually isn't that surprising because I think as you pull back the onion, when you get to know you a bit more, you know, you have a real punk rock spirit. It doesn't seem like that maybe sometimes when you're on the COVID of Vanity Fair, but, you know, that really says a lot who you are. And it's interesting. I work with some filmmakers, Ryan Fleck and Anna Bowden, who made a movie called Freaky Tales recently that's now out, you can watch it and really looks at punk rock and also hip hop in many ways, which are cousins or siblings. And it really goes to a lot of the spirit of people. And I think you are exemplifying that. Um, so I'm Gonna, I'm not gonna say that your band, Foss, I think it was called, is maybe gonna be the thing that I put on first and foremost every day when I wake up. Cause punk rock was never my thing. But I am gonna, I am gonna listen to some, some of it when I, when I finish today. So there's never a dull moment, sadly, when we're drinking out of this fire hose from the Donald Trump presidency. Obviously there's something new every day. The end of the budget shutdown and the senators that broke rank this weekend is obviously from top of mind for everybody. What, when that, when you got that news, where did your mind go? And walk me through those, those, those aftermath, those moments after
- [08:24]
B
was devastating. I'll tell you why. You know, over the course of the last 10 months, we've seen every center of conventional power bend the knee to Donald Trump. The big law firms, the Ivy League universities, the media companies, Paramount, cbs, abc, Disney, certainly the social media companies, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos and everybody who was there at the inauguration and who bought up at these crazy, corrupt, inflated prices, the documentaries on Ivanka Trump and et cetera, et cetera. And, and you have people who are fighting back, right? You have the Texas state House Democrats who left the state at risk of their personal safety, threatened with jail, with losing their jobs. My organization, Powered By People was before a trial judge in Tarrant County. My assets were frozen. They tried to freeze my personal assets. The Attorney General for the state of Texas vowed he would put me behind bars. And it is still an open case right now because we fought against this five district gerrymander in our state, but we're fighting back. You look at California and thank God for Governor Gavin Newsom for fighting back. So it's not as though we don't have people who are outside of the conventional centers of power who are resisting and doing their best. And so having learned from the failed fight against Donald Trump during the continuing resolution at the start of this year, when Chuck Schumer folded in the face of pressure from Trump and Elon Musk, it looked like Senate Democrats had finally learned something, that their leverage is their unity and that we can use that leverage to win big things for everyday Americans, like the ability to see a fucking doctor or afford your prescription medication or take your kid to a behavioral health specialist. Like stuff that's life and death for people that we care about. And we were winning and not like horse race politics winning, but this pressure and the public who supported it was finally starting to break through and Everything that was going wrong in this country was rightfully owned by Donald Trump. The cut to SNAP or food stamps, that was his unilateral decision. Didn't have to do it, the court said. In fact, he had to reinstate those dollars. But if you were suffering, God forbid, you were suffering because Donald Trump in the country knew it. Same for flight delays, same for every other problem that was imposed by the president. So whether it was real political leverage, whether it was the polling, whether it was this wind at our backs after the election victories the previous Tuesday, whether it was in New York City or the Pennsylvania Supreme Court or New Jersey or Virginia or California with Prop 50, I mean, we were winning. We were on a roll. And why in the hell would you interrupt that and stop that and send the signal that maybe we don't have the courage of our convictions, that we say we're going to hold out for health care or bust, but maybe, maybe we really don't mean it. Maybe you can apply enough pressure and I worry at what will be read by that signal when we have the next fight in January after current funding lapses. What it means in terms of having understandably and justifiably cynical voters who sat at home in large part in 2024 because they really wondered what we and who we were fighting for, whether they see in this, maybe a Democratic Party that doesn't really mean all of this, doesn't have the courage of their convictions and is not going to fight for the people of this country. Still time for us to recover from this for sure. And I know there are very real smart people who say maybe these eight Dems in the Senate who folded really set up a political wind for us going into 2026. Donald Trump and the Republicans will own health care, rising premium costs, people who can't see a doctor. But if those people are important to us, they're not just important to us to win an election. They're important to us right now because their lives are literally on the line. And I'd love to see our party fight for them. Like they really believe that
- [12:34]
A
you have you. I appreciate all that. And I was in the same place. I mean, I texted Cory Booker when someone called me first and said the Democrats just caved. I said, I said, please tell me the shutdown isn't ending with any. Without any guarantee on health care. And Corey responded with saying, it's brutal, if not tragic, choice of my colleagues. And I said, brutal is an understatement. I've now personally gone through. I think all of the aspects of grief related to this during this week. And part of me actually feels like in some ways it was the right choice, but, but it was completely the wrong way of going about it. And it, what it did is it just, it's, it was done from a place of weakness as a place of strength instead of a place of strength. And if that group of Democrats and independent had come together and, and, and by the way, maybe they did. I mean, I'm not, you know, we're not in the Senate, so we don't know the conversations and said enough is enough. We've got made health care the main issue of the conversation. We've, we've overtaken the narrative as Democrats. We've made affordability, we've changed it. We just want a sweeping election. We are now set up to next year go into the midterms with the wind at our backs with these issues that are all that matters to people. There are, you know, I think the numbers, 42 million people on SNAP who are going to not only go hungry, but are going to potentially go homeless due to these, the government shutdown. People are going to ruin, you know, and not be able to travel across the country. There's going to be, you know, WIC being, you know, unfunded, you know, you know, all these things. We are the party of people who have a heart, are people who care about basic rights of being a human in America. And enough is enough and we need to end this. Part of me has really gotten to that place where I'm like, I don't know how much we were going to get out of it because the premiums were gone up this year. I mean, it was all for next year at this point anyway. So where am I wrong with that thinking?
- [14:46]
B
Yeah, I want to acknowledge that I don't think Tim Kaine is a bad guy and he's one of the eight. And I understand reasonable people can disagree. And you just offered perhaps one of the best counterarguments to mine. But as someone else put it, I can volunteer at a food bank. There are things I can personally do in my life and in my community to address those who are homeless because of the president. And let's be clear, this, this is not Democrats doing this. The president had the resources, Congress had funded the programs. He unilaterally chose to withhold those funds. He was the person hurting these people, wasn't the Democrats. But, but what I can't do is I didn't go to medical school. I don't have access to cancer medications. If, if you're not going to receive those now because Democrats withdrew in the midst of this fight that I would argue they were winning, you're, you might very well die. And I just don't know what the answer to that one is. And, and the other thing is, you told us, I'm talking to the eight Democrats in the Senate who fold. You told us you were in this fight for health care or bust, that you, you weren't going to concede a thing unless there was a guarantee that the people that you serve in these positions of public trust and power were going to be able to get the life saving care that they needed. And then you did. And so, you know, both your, your constituents, the American public, the electorate and the President really wonder if you can be trusted at, at your word. And I don't think that's a, a small thing. But having said that, we're all on the same team and there are going to be other fights ahead and no one should be canceled or, you know, judged out of the Democratic Party. We need to operate as a team. But I think part of being on a team is being candid, offering constructive criticism and being honest with one another and learning from, and getting better at each additional turn. I mean, the folks that we're up against, they, you know, if they win the 2026 elections, if they hold on to power in the House and the Senate, game over for America. That's it. The consolidation of power in this authoritarian's hands will be unstoppable. Maybe there's some way to stop it. I haven't seen it yet. So, so this one is, is for all the marbles. And I think we have to be ruthless about pursuing and winning power and using it to its maximum effectiveness. And the only power we have right now as the minority party in both chambers is the leverage we have in our unity. And we broke that and we lost that, I hope just temporarily by this concession by those eight Democrats in the Senate.
- [17:36]
A
Yeah, I mean, listen, I in no way supported what they did and the way they did it. And I don't believe for one second there's going to be a vote. This is not possible. There's no way Trump allows a vote. But I do think in the end of the day, I think Democrats won in, in, in where they are at this moment and still are much stronger when they were and, and sadly because so many people had to suffer for the shutdown that I think that we've come out in a place stronger for the midterms. And I think we can't lose sight of that. And it's just frustrating that we look like we're. We don't know what we're talking about and we're not unified and we don't have a singular message. And listen, by the way, that comes back to the Democratic Party, right? I mean, that's what people keep saying. You know, there's no leader of the Democratic Party. There's no singular message. You know, you know, I question, you know, I put it back to you, like, what does it mean to be a Democrat today?
- [18:38]
B
It's got to mean more than being against Donald Trump. So for me, being a Democrat means that we're going to fight for democracy, not going back to something that we never had. Certainly after Citizens United or Shelby vs. Holder. You can't, with a straight face say that are a real democracy. So, you know, as a Democrat, I believe we should get big money out of politics. We should set term limits at every level of office, that we should not allow politicians to choose their voters. You know, there should be some national law that prohibits that, and we should really return power to the people. I believe there should be an economic democracy. In Texas, the minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. You need three of those jobs, and people are working three of those jobs right now. Estate in order to make ends meet. You should be able to earn enough from one job. You should be able to buy a house. You should be able to ensure that your kid is going to do better than you ever did in your life. Those things are not possible for tens of millions of our fellow Americans. Democrats need to be for that. Articulate how we're going to get there. Show a positive, affirmative, aspirational vision for the future. And I'll give you an example, Jamie, of where we really screwed the pooch. For as long as I can remember, Democrats have been advocating for campaigning on immigration. And the, the favorite phrase was comprehensive immigration reform, something uttered so often and acted on never that it lost all meaning. And so I think voters understandably, after seeing one party talk about this and saying, well, look, you won the White House, the House and the Senate in 2008, and you did some great things with it, but you didn't do immigration. You won those, those three levers of power in 2020, and you did some great things with it, but you didn't do immigration. And we have a challenge with immigration in this country, whether you think we have too many immigrants or we don't have the right, safe, legal, orderly path for immigrants to Come here. We have a challenge and one party, Donald Trump, who's going to build the wall and set up these concentration camps and do mass deportation. I may not like every aspect of that the voter says, but I know he's going to do it. And you guys, I'm not so sure anymore. And Jamie kind of gets back to whether Democrats, after the caving of these eight senators, can be trusted at their word. We have a credibility problem already built into our party, whether it's immigration, whether it was Biden running for reelection after the electorate said, hey, I think he's not the right guy for this. And we said, don't trust your eyeing lying eyes. Just, just listen to us. You know, we got to be straight with people. And so we have to, when we win power again, rewrite this country's immigration laws. And we have to talk about it on the campaign trail, what that looks like. Meaning if you are coming here to work, if you're coming here to join family, if you're coming here to flee repression or perhaps certain death, there has to be a legal, orderly path for you to do that. We need to know who's coming into our country. And we also need to be able to benefit from those who are going to make our country stronger and safer and more successful by their very presence. And then when we win power, we have to, as Mandela Barnes in Wisconsin says, we have to drive the car like we stole it. We have to actually get shit done. And Donald Trump, as evil as that man is, is teaching this country a masterclass in leveraging power to its maximal effect. It's done for all the wrong reasons, in all the wrong ways. But imagine if a Democrat who had the House, the Senate, and the White House was using power in that way positively on immigration, on economic democracy, on political democracy, on so many of the other things that we talk about and have really struggle to deliver on in a way that makes a meaningful, tangible difference in people's lives that they feel, that they talk about and they associate with our party. I'm talking about FDR style Democrats. I mean, just to the hilt. Full gas. So that's what I'd like to see our party do. Yes, we're all against Trump. Really bad going on in the country. It is existential. But how will your life be better if we are elected to office? And so just those three. Political democracy, economic democracy, immigration. Great place to start.
- [22:51]
A
I love that. And you're 100% right. It's all about what a Democrat speak for, not what we're against. And I think those are great messages and that's why you're such an amazing messenger. What's your take on the fact that it feels like the Democratic Party has gone too far to the left? Do you think that's accurate? Do you think that's fair to say or not?
- [23:12]
B
No, I don't. I don't feel that at all. I'm really excited by the breadth of victories that we saw. Mamdani in New York, Cheryl Spamberger in New Jersey and Virginia. We're all part of the same party. And given the challenges that we face and given the great things that we want to do, I believe we need the broadest, most united front possible. And, and we, again, I believe we should drum no one out out of this party for having a contrarian view on a given policy issue or for having made some mistake in their. Their younger life, or for not hewing to the orthodoxy of wherever the center of gravity in our party happens to be at the moment, because it, it is going to change, you know, fundamentally. If, if you believe in democracy, rule of law, and the U.S. constitution, if you believe in our personal freedoms and rights, if you want to make sure that all of us, especially those at the margins, have a fighting chance to succeed in this country, you're a Democrat. I want you in this party. We're not going to agree on everything. No two people ever will if they're being honest with one another. And so I don't think we're too left, I don't think we're too center. I don't think we're too right. In fact, I think we have a lot to be optimistic about and a lot to celebrate. What Mamdani campaigned on might not work in my hometown of El Paso, Texas, where I'm speaking to you from right now. What Cheryl campaigned on in New Jersey might not be the right prescription for Manhattan or Queens, but they worked for the constituencies for whom they want to serve and the electorate that was going to decide the outcome of those elections. And I'm so proud of them. And Jamie, maybe this is a virtue and not a bug that we don't have a national leader and we don't have a national message that everybody has to recite chapter and verse and that we've given Democrats candidates the freedom to maneuver and to do what they need to do to appeal to the electorate that is going to put them in power. And maybe that's a lesson we take from this November's elections into next November's elections. And I think it's I think it's a positive thing.
- [25:30]
A
I hear that. I mean my concern is, listen, Donald Trump, although he does get shit done in some ways, right? Like he bulldozes the east wing, you know, I don't know what exactly, you know, he doesn't really know what he's doing half the time except kind of just misdirecting us so he can continue to fill his coffers and his friends and family's coffers. But I do think what's been proven, and you said this a little earlier, getting shit done and actually accomplishing things is really all that matters, right? And so like, you know, if you people are sick and tired of hearing these promises that don't get fulfilled and I think what my concern with and let's, you know, just talk about Mondami for one minute and not even, you know, not talk about, just talk specific policies for a second, right? When you promise people you're going to solve affordability by rent freezes which have been proven time and time again to, to not work. When you promise people you're going to solve, you know, bus times by free buses, which have pretty much proven, you know, for the most part that very hard for that to work. When you promise people to solve affordability issues by state run grocery stores, you know, that becomes very scary because a, a lot of that leads towards socialism, which he's a self proclaimed democratic socialist. And two, when rents go up in four years and the housing supply goes down, because that's what's proven by, you know, Bill de Blas, when he tried it, that's going to lead to another promise that Democrats are given that hasn't worked. And I think the, the energy and enthusiasm and the skill that Madani had of, of of getting people out to vote and younger people and getting is extraordinary. And I think so much needs to be learned from him and what he did in that sort of retail politics style. But my concern is when you just sort of go out there and make these empty promises that we're just going to be in a much worse situation and especially the people in New York and listen, I happy to be proven wrong. I hope this stuff works now which has never worked before for the people of New York. I wish only people the best and wish Donald Trump the best in making America better. But that's the thing that kind of scares me.
- [27:42]
B
Yeah, I understand that. And this guy's clearly got to deliver now, right? And so much more then the fate of his constituents hangs in the balance because he is a national Democrat at this point. And, you know, the country's going to be taking lessons from his success or his failure. You know, one great opportunity among all of the policy prescriptions for Mamdani, for New York, for Democrats, for the country, is childcare. I just did it. I happened to be in Berlin. I did a town hall with expat Americans who are all US Voters who happen to live in Berlin. And there was this really amazing woman who took the microphone and she said, you know, when I call home back to the States, I'm embarrassed to tell them what I have here in Berlin. And she says that the thing that stands out is childcare. She said, it would be unaffordable for me in the U.S. in fact, I can't move back to America because I just couldn't afford the childcare here. It is something that I can count on. It's guaranteed. It frees me to go to work, to have a life that I otherwise wouldn't be able to lead in America. That was one of the central tenets or planks of Mandani's platform. It's something that we desperately need across the country. I don't think it is a socialist position. I don't even think it's necessarily a liberal position. I think it's one of those things that every family, certainly every family who doesn't have extraordinary wealth struggles with in America, whether they're Republicans, whether they live in rural communities, whether the Democrats or live in big cities. And if he and his team can successfully innovate and navigate the politics of the state legislature of Governor Hochul of. To the really good points you're making, Jamie, about the tax rate in New York and some of the incredible things that make that city so outstanding, and if he's able to deliver, that, look a really tough challenge. But if he can do that, I just see extraordinary positive benefits for this country, for Democrats and from those who choose to learn the lesson on those other issues. I think if he can bring it back to affordability and look, if he's as smart as I think he is and if some of the specific proposals are in fact unworkable or make a problem that he's trying to solve even worse, and if he can learn from that, change course and say, look, I'm still going to get at the affordability issue, but what I was talking about before, it doesn't seem like that's possible or I've learned since that that's not going to be helpful and I want to deliver for you. So I'm going to go to plan B. And here's what it is. I think he is that kind of leader. I think he is that smart and I think he will be able to deliver. But yeah, I'm also, you know, I'm really focused on that. I'm really wishing him success.
- [30:30]
A
Listen, the way we treat our kids in America is, is a, is an embarrassment and the support for them, you know, I think universal child care is must like you know, like Head Start programs and you know, and what we're doing, our education program, my wife's nonprofit baby to Baby has been on the front lines of getting diapers not treated as luxury goods in most states. You know, they went in California was treated as a luxury good. Now they've gotten up to 13 states that they've worked with. So those are things that are, that I can really get behind and supportive of. So let's move on. Texas is, is a, is a very unique state. Jasmine Crockett is a friend of Lunch with Jamie. She's been on a couple of times. She's convinced Texas is going blue in the, in the coming years. If it's not the next election shortly after that. If I was drafting my all stars in the Democratic Party right now, today, I'd be drafting you and Jasmine and James Talarico with high picks without question. Colin Allred also awesome. Who's down there? What's, what's going on in Texas and why are is there all this excitement and enthusiasm while at the same time you're the belly of the beast when it comes to gerrymandering and Greg Abbott and it's very, it's really a complicated place. Help us out a bit.
- [32:00]
B
Yeah. And, and for your viewers and folks who don't live in Texas are unfamiliar with the state, you know, first thing to tell you is that what you see right now, the most obscene abortion ban in America, no exception for rape, incest, life of the mother, that $7.25 an hour minimum wage that I mentioned earlier, the fact that we're the least insured state in America, we lead the country in childhood diabetes deaths as a consequence of that worst foster care system of America. I mean, hundreds of kids die in state custody because of the absolute negligence and corruption and fraud that is endemic throughout this system. I just want everybody to know that that is reflective of our political leaders. That is not reflective of the people of Texas. This is an extraordinary, beautiful, diverse state. But Jamie, as you pointed out, it is also the most voter suppressed state in the union. When Shelby v. Holder was decided in 2013, which gutted the Civil Rights Act. The the state that made the most of that opportunity to disenfranchise voters was Texas. Harshest voter ID law was adopted within minutes, literally of Shelby v. Holder being decided. One ballot drop off location per county, including in Harris county, which has 5 million people in it. Racial gerrymandering of our congressional districts. And the list goes on and on and on. When I ran for governor and you had that abortion ban on the ballot, you had those 19 beautiful kids who were slaughtered in their classroom in Uvalde that year on the ballot, when you had all these other things on the ballot, 9 million eligible registered Texans did not cast a ballot. And it's not because they're lazy. It's not because they don't love this democracy. It's not because they don't care about those issues that we just talked about. It is because this state makes both an art and a science of keeping people who would challenge those in power from ever being able to cast that ballot or have their vote counted or their voice heard. So you just mentioned this roster of extraordinary candidates. We are amidst an embarrassment of riches because down ballot from them there are even more. But we have a real challenge in getting through these obstacles put in our place. So our organization Powered by People. In fact, I'm going to be on the road bright and early tomorrow morning to Houston, Texas, where I will post up at the University of Houston with 36 of my fellow Powered by People volunteers, all of whom are sworn volunteer deputy registrars will meet total strangers on that campus, confirm their voter registration status, update it for them, or get them registered if they're not yet on the rolls. And then we will personally, not through a broadcast, text or email, stay in touch with them over the course of the next 11 months to make sure they get their voter registration card in the mail, that they know the form of voter ID that they need to bring to the ballot box, who the candidates are, when early voting starts, where their polling location is, and then we stay on their ass until they cast that ballot. So every day of early voting until that voter is checked off on my list, I say, hey, Jamie, it's Beto again. I know you couldn't vote yesterday. Do you think you can get out today during your lunch break? Here's your nearest early voting location. It is a problem that we're solving not with money, but and not with technology, but with volunteer human labor. We have thousands of volunteers who are deployed around the entire state of Texas on most major college campuses doing this work. And so we hope that we're going to be part of the lift that gets a James Talarico or Colin Allred or Gina Hinojosa, who's running for governor, over the line to ensure that a Democrat wins a statewide election in Texas for the first time in more than 30 years. It's been three decades that we have been in the wilderness and I hope everyone agrees that it couldn't happen at a more important time. The biggest, most existential challenge we've ever faced. Wouldn't it be poetic justice if it were Texas that rode to the rescue at the end of the day? So that's how we're going to get over this. That's how we're going to get through this. And for anyone who's got spare time on their hands, there are volunteer opportunities with powered by people that you can perform at a distance by staying in touch with these newly registered voters. And we'd love to have you on the team.
- [36:19]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's what you're doing with Power to people is so critical and this weekend's events sound really important and, and really critical to what we need to do going forward. You know, I'm going to semi answer a little bit my own question as well. You know, one of the things I love is, you know, the, you know, the American experiment. Right. Like it just doesn't make sense. I mean, we, you know, most of these other countries have split up and you know, the constant spoken split up into countries. I mean, it makes sense. You know, Texas is just so damn big. I mean, I, and it's interesting, I've actually traveled probably more in Texas, almost any other state. I'm from New York. I've been living in LA for 20 plus years. I've been from Lufkin to Houston to Quanah to, to Dallas and you know, I've been to, had a jalapeno burger at Brahms and you know, and barbecue throughout the whole state. And it's such a, I mean you've been to every county multiple times. I mean it is such a wildly diverse state and if you can just get those people to vote and get these voter suppression laws, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm optimistic, especially with leaders like you guys. Although I did try and recruit Jasmine to move to California when her district gets gerrymandered. So I'll still take her. But, but I mean that's part of the, the beauty and challenge that you're, you're Facing it's really is like no other state there is.
- [37:44]
B
You're absolutely right. And some of those places you mentioned, like, like Lufkin in East Texas or if you go to West Texas in the Panhandle, Amarillo or Dalhart or Midland or Odessa, I mean, unfortunately, present company excluded, our party long ago wrote these places off and stopped showing up and stopped fielding candidates and stopped supporting local parties. And Democrats were left to their own devices and on the ballot in November, you would only have Republicans. And so there was no one making the other side of the argument for public schools, for abortion Access, for a 15 or $20 an hour minimum wage, for the ability to be able to see a doctor, more rural hospital closures in Texas than in any other state, disproportionately damning or destroying these small Republican represented communities. Why? Because Democrats weren't there. And that's. Jamie, that's part of the reason going back to 2017, 2018, that I made it my mission to go to these places and listen to and learn from the people that I wanted to fight for and serve in the U.S. senate. And also to see what I could do to help invest in local leaders and local infrastructure. And I'm doing that right now. Last week I was in College Station in Brazos County. I was in Waco, Texas and McLennan. I was in McKinney and Collin county, as in Fort Worth and Tarrant. Those are four big red counties where we are not fielding Democrats on the ballot. And I went to all four of those places to recruit Democrats to run for state House and with the message, this is a tough pitch, okay, but, but look, you may not win your race, but the fact that you're willing to run, you put yourself out there, means we're more likely to win a race here in 2028 or in 2030. And the net new votes that you generate by having the courage of putting your name and your neck out there means that we're going to send votes up to the top of the ticket to the governor's race, the AG race, the LG race, and importantly the US Senate race. For Christ's sake. Texas could decide the balance of power in the US Senate in 2026 and completely changed the landscape and what is possible for America in 2027 by running for office in Waco, Texas, you can make that happen. So that's, that's the opportunity we have. We've got about a month, Mason Menos, until the filing deadline ends on the 8th of December. And it is my mission on Earth to make sure that every single ballot position is filled by a Democrat, no matter how red those counties are. Because it's only by the sum of all that courage that you get the victories possible at Senate, governor, and other important positions at the top.
- [40:23]
A
Speaking of those candidates, I know you've talked or people have talked to you about what you're going to run for next, if you are going to run for something next, I'd love you to break some news right now. So feel free to announce your candidacy for anything. But to that point of what you just said, you know, where is your head at when it comes to running for office again?
- [40:50]
B
You know, I'm very open to it. I love it. Right. We keep talking about the 254 counties of Texas. Nothing brings me greater joy than showing up, meeting someone where they're at, listening and learning from them, and then making a deal that we're going to fight together. And the strangest relationships and partnerships have. Have developed from that, from people, including in these rural counties, who, because Democrats have stopped showing up, Republicans don't have to either. They can just count on their reelection in perpetuity. And these folks have gone effectively unrepresented and unheard. And. And being there is. It just feels right. And, and winning even better. Right? So in terms of this year, like you, Jamie, and like everyone who's watching or listening to this, I want to do what is most useful and most helpful for the country and for my home state of Texas. And right now, registering these voters, staying in touch with them, mobilizing, recruiting, deploying our volunteers, helping to recruit candidates at every position on the ballot, and then doing everything I can statewide, whether I'm a candidate or not, a candidate, to ensure that we win big races up and down the ballot. That's my job. That's my goal. That's how I will know I have led a good life. None of us on this call want to look back after election day in 2026 and wonder or wish that we had done something more. We want to know that we left it all out on the field. And so I don't know that I will be a candidate this time. In fact, I think it's. It's unlikely. But we're going to have great candidates at every position, and we will have amazing volunteers, myself included, who will be out there doing everything we can within our power to ensure that these candidates win. And so I can't ask for anything else if I'm. You're probably the same way if I'm not doing anything. If I'm watching the news, scrolling through Twitter, reading the headlines, getting pissed off about the Senate Democrats, I'm just in a shit, shitty, foul mood the entire day. I guarantee you, even though I've got my flight out of El Paso and Southwest airlines leaves at 6am tomorrow morning to Houston Hobby. And then I'm going to be on the University of Houston campus by 11am and I'll spend the entire day outdoors with those volunteers. I will feel so good, so fulfilled. I'll be able to count literally the number of people that we just added to the roles, the number of students that we're going to be able to stay in touch with over the duration of this election. Election. And I will know that I'm adding to the probability that we are going to win. We've got to remind ourselves that we have agency in this country, that democracy has no sidelines. I mean, all of us have a job right now. We've got to do it to its maximum effect. So that's the way I'm going to try to look at every day between now and November. And you know, to quote the, the title of a famous movie, it's just going to be one battle after another. After we win in 26, we stay on that field and we press our advantage and we keep going and there's just no end to this sucker. But if we accept that, we're going to find the joy in the work. And that action is the antidote to despair. It is the key to victory. It is hope in motion. So let us always be in action.
- [44:10]
A
Oh, I appreciate that and I will support in whatever you're running for. We're going to let the audience here chime in for what we're running for as we run a quick poll. And I think what you're, you know, the what powered by the people is doing is just awesome. And I think, listen, I think the most important thing right now is how can, as you said it, how can you make an impact and how can you make a difference? Right? And as a quote from Cory Booker that I always love to talk about it, don't let your inability to do everything stop your ability to do something. And, and I think that's all that matters, right? Is you get up every day and you just try and do something to make the world better. Right? And that could be donating to a local animal shelter, that could be knocking on doors, that could be donating $5 political candidate or running for political office yourself. Whatever, whatever that, whatever that may be. So I really, I appreciate that and I look forward to you running, running again. I think that's, I think that's something that we, we all do, whether it's locally or wherever that may take you. What, you know, you've said, obviously the gerrymandering is just a devastating aspect of what we're dealing with right now. Nobody support gerrymandering. I mean, it's just not full stop. I think I was very proud that Gavin, I consider a friend, took the lead with Prop 50 and has inspired other people to do the same thing, to fight back. And I think that's critical. What do you think? I mean, what was your first instinct when Governor Abbott came out with that plan? And what was your first instinct when you heard Gavin's plan with Prop 50?
- [45:48]
B
So when, when Trump demanded that Governor Abbott in Texas redraw the congressional districts to give him five seats that he felt he was entitled to, my first instinct became my first words. I think I was on CNN with Jake Tapper that weekend and I said, we must fight fire with fire and no more platitudes, no more coloring within the lines, no more Charlie Brown on our end. We're going to do whatever it takes and be ruthlessly focused on winning power. And so California, Illinois, Maryland, Oregon, New York, Virginia, and on and on and on. We must not wait for Texas or Oklahoma or Kansas or Indiana or the next state. We must seize the initiative. Instead of reacting when they land the punch, we throw the first one and we throw it harder than they ever could. We get off the back foot onto the front and we stay on offense all time. I have not seen Democrats do that in a very, very long time. And I'll tell you, and I know this from Governor Newsom saying this himself, what, what Democrats did in Texas really helped shock the conscience of the country. When so many others were bending the knee, these folks who have so little power relatively to Democrats in other places stood up and fought and said, donald Trump, our knees don't bend. And I think that helped to light a fire. I think that helped to encourage people in California. You know, Governor Newsom was incredibly generous and gracious in hosting some of those Texas Democrats when they broke quorum in your state and then did the right thing, regardless of the political consequence, which was to lead the fight to redraw at least five districts in California. And that in turn will continue to inspire other states. I'm sure you saw the news from Governor Westmore in, in Maryland, who basically said, I could give a about, you know, what you thought was right before or the fact that we all hate, you know, mid decade redistricting. Of course we do. We don't want politicians to choose their voters. But we're also not going to unilaterally disarm and watch our country get flushed down the toilet. We are going to fight back and we're going to fight to win. And so you know that it's kind of a hackneyed political speech, but still has resonance for me, you know, RFK Senior, the good rfk, his speech about those ripples of hope when people take these actions. And Jamie, you just said, like you're donating to an animal shelter, you're choosing to run for office at a local level, or you're a governor of a major state that has the ability to press Democratic congressional advantage. You take that action, that ripple of hope is going to connect with others who have the courage of their convictions, and pretty soon it forms a mighty torrent that can break down the strongest walls. And that's what we need right now. We need to keep inspiring one another and doing all we can with what we have, wherever we are. And so I'm really hopeful that Texas to California, California to the rest of the nation. When the story of 2025, 2026 is written, we are really proud of how our country answered the call and the fact that we didn't squander what Lincoln called the last best hope of earth, but instead saved it for the generations that follow. And so those of us alive at this moment, we get to do this work. How lucky are we?
- [49:14]
A
I love that. And just one final question. You know, I think it's safe to say people are more frustrated by politics and politicians today than ever before. And where the Democrats fit in that equation is even worse. I'm gonna say something controversial. I've never been this excited. And the reason is because of people like you and people like Gavin Newsom and Jasmine Crockett and J.B. pritzker and Wes Moore and Anderson Clayton in North Carolina and Jake auchincloss and Sarah McBride and James Talarico and Mayor Wu. And the list goes on and on and on. I mean, there are 50 dynamic, exciting people who are running for office, serving office now, looking at running for office, and that's exhilarating. What gives you hope at this moment? That this American experiment as we approach our 250th anniversary, is still working. And that. What are you excited for when you look down the road for your three wonderful children, for my two wonderful daughters.
- [50:28]
B
What gives you Hope, Yeah, I love what you just said, and I hope that we see and hear and feel more of that spirit amongst our fellow Democrats and across the country. I mean, certainly we have reasons to be disappointed from time to time, and you and I talked about that at the beginning. But big picture, I think we have to be incredibly optimistic for all the talent that you just described, for all the leadership on display, and for the desperation that we see on the other side. I mean, Donald Trump doesn't redistrict in Texas, doesn't redistrict in Indiana, doesn't redistrict in North Carolina, unless he has a very serious problem on his hands. He is so deeply unpopular, the policies he's pursuing that are hurting so many tens of millions of our fellow Americans are themselves so unpopular that he is bound to lose power in the House and probably also the Senate unless he can find some way to rig the elections. And that's what he's trying to do. And so we need to call that out for what it is and allow that to give us cause for optimism, to know that they're on the ropes. And while they're on the ropes, we have to fight as hard as we possibly can. The worst thing we can do is to give in to the air of inevitability that Trump and his minions tried to project. I mean, it is a false confidence if I've ever seen it. And, and then there's this to, to maybe last thing to answer your question. Just, you know, let's all remember who we are. I know that maybe this isn't always popular to say, but I fully feel it with every fiber in my being. We're the greatest country that has ever existed. You know, founded not on race or ethnicity or religion or anything other than this. This premise that we're all the same, we're all created equal and should be treated equally under the law and should have equal opportunity in this country. Fucking amazing. You know, never happened in the whole of human history, might never happen again. And certainly there are imperfections and certainly there is work to do, but that in itself is amazing. And, and look what it took to establish that we defeated the most powerful empire on the planet to win our independence. We defeated the armies of the Confederacy at the cost of more than 300,000 union dead. You know, 17, 16, 18, 19 year old boys who gave their lives for this very idea. You know, we beat back the divisions of Hitler's Third Reich to defeat fascism abroad so that we could protect it and defend it here at home. We marched, we sat in. We lost the lives of civil and voting rights activists so that we could win full rights for every American, regardless of the differences between us. That's who we are. We have overcome the longest odds, we've been through the bloodiest of battles. And at every single turn, we won this country for the following generation. Now it's ours. This is our chance. And there was that warning or that admonition from Lincoln at one of those major turns in American history, we will either be the generation that meanly loses or nobly saves this last, best hope of earth. And that's why, Jamie, I said earlier, I think we should count ourselves lucky to be alive because so many generations before ours never got the chance to fight and win America at its moment of truth. And it has come down to us, these 249 years. This is our inheritance. What we do with it will determine our future. And it will also define us in the eyes of our kids. Your two daughters, my three kids, and the generations that follow. And so we can't fuck this up. We cannot be found wanting at this moment of truth. We must win. And we can win because we've won before against much longer odds. So let's go out there and do it.
- [54:04]
A
I love that. Thank you. As someone said, now that's a speech. Governor. The poll said you should run for governor. Just so you know, I can't wait to come eat some delicious Mexican food with you in El Paso. Maybe check out an Iron Maiden concert or maybe when Foss reunites for a gig. Sign me up. Thank you for everything you're doing. I look forward to seeing you in person. And have a great weekend. And go, go register those voters and go make a difference.
- [54:35]
B
Thank you, Jamie, and thanks to everyone.
- [54:37]
A
Thanks. Thanks.
- [54:38]
B
Adios.
- [54:42]
A
Be sure to subscribe to my newsletter@jamieslist.com for my thoughts on all things food, pop culture, politics and more. And remember to join these online conversations and ask my guests questions in real time. Sign up to get a paid subscriber. You can listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Audible and be sure to leave a review. Thanks and see you next time.