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- [00:00]
Host
Up to this point in your career,
- [00:02]
Interviewer
what do you think has been one of the lessons that you've learned? But it's taken a lot longer than it should have.
- [00:07]
Kelly
Maybe just don't let things fall to the wayside. Take advantage of every opportunity. But I think it's also really trust
- [00:13]
Chip
your gut, say, enjoy the journey. Take the opportunity to learn and to see. It goes by so fast. But that's what you remember. It started a long time ago.
- [00:23]
Kelly
Everything has been so organic and so natural that 26 years ago, who thought, thought we'd be sitting here talking about a merger, right? You have no idea what's ahead. You have to learn as a leader that same trust that you got, you're instilling in other people. And then that's how you raise the next generation.
- [00:40]
Chip
And that's hard to do. Especially most designers want to ensure the quality and to start to relinquish that. You have to trust your people. And that was probably one of the biggest learning lessons. I never had a planned roadmap. I think some people expect this real simple line. And my whole point is don't overanalyze it. Make good choices. But the reality of it is, even if it's not the perfect choice, learn from it, grow from it, so that you're on a constant growth thing. Especially now, tied together with a firm that does 1,000 hospitals a year. How can we make all those people's lives better?
- [01:15]
Kelly
It feels like endless opportunities.
- [01:26]
Host
Before we jump in, I want to thank five companies that show up for this community. Guys. Gotham, Kelvix, Leadflex, Diode LED and Targetti usa. Because this show exists thanks to their belief in designers and the way they work every day. I'm really excited about this conversation, and I want to start where design actually begins. Every designer begins by imagining how a space should feel calm, intimate, creating clarity or wonder. Yet lighting too often demands compromise. Performance versus flexibility and intent versus cost. Good instead of better. Gotham starts with a different belief. Those decisions shouldn't carry the weight they usually do because the right options are already built in. Their approach to architectural downlining is designed around freedom. The freedom to explore, adapt, and refine without limitation. This is the new Gotham, where every option is already there. See it for yourself. Experience how Gotham's Ivo makes lighting design easier, faster, and more intuitive. Request a sample customized to your specs@gothamlighting.com free samples.
- [02:33]
Interviewer
Chip and Kelly when you guys look at where you're at today, there's an opportunity to talk about, you know, what you've done along the way. You recently merged. Congratulations. As you've evolved, how have you seen and felt and known the next step is coming?
- [02:51]
Chip
It's just another step along the journey. And we've only made it here because of the great talent that we've surrounded myself with. And that's what's made us better and stronger.
- [03:00]
Kelly
Was even when it was a smaller team, it was always about the team. Chip and I both have. I think mentoring has a lot to play in what we're going to talk about today too. He purposely named the company Lighting Design Alliance. He didn't call it Chip Israel Lighting Design. And I think that really set the tone from the beginning for how it's truly all about our team. Our passion is lighting. That's what we do every day. And I think this merger really we had to take a step back. Right. We know that our marketplace is changing, the industry is changing, but the most important thing was design. We didn't want to lose being the design. Even if we're in a we tell cell sobriety is great because they don't even really call themselves an engineering firm. They call themselves a technology firm.
- [03:40]
Chip
That's what the real key is. Some people say, oh, it's a golden parachute or something. It's really not. It literally creates an opportunity. You know, the marketplace is changing, the economy's kind of changing and it creates a steady source for us in the future. So we get to do the jobs we type we tend to love, but it also gives us this opportunity to do a whole other sector of work.
- [04:04]
Kelly
So how do we get to be a part of that growth and truly still get to be the big design in this larger scale company?
- [04:12]
Interviewer
It started to make you think about this, what it could be. It's so easy to be stuck in everything you're doing and everything that needs to get done.
- [04:21]
Chip
It started a long time ago and as a smaller firm, we're somewhat limited to the upward mobility of the people. Obviously Kelly started and moved up and had a full studio underneath her. We now have the great opportunity or luxury of we have probably 10 more. Kelly's there now. The only way that they have a full forward or an uplifting career path is to expand. And it's really tough. And Kelly and I had a lot of, you know, heart to heart discussion. I could never have done this without her. And in reality, if I walk away, would be really tough for her to keep the company the same size, the same profitability, et cetera. But now we have this opportunity where we can actually grow and do the types of projects we love to do. And it's a firm that's big, but they're still small enough that we can have an impact to that. And that's what's really exciting about this opportunity for all of us. I'm not under any contract, but yet I'm not walking away. So it's because, as Kelly said, this is really exciting, and I think it's really, really exciting for all of our junior and senior people in the firm.
- [05:25]
Interviewer
What do you think set the foundation for opportunities like this in building and growing what you have and what has now become part of something bigger?
- [05:35]
Kelly
What was exciting for me is that was the first thing he said to me, day one, was you can create your own almost company within the company itself. Even though we were small at the time, it was really having trust and freedom to be able to take things and run with it. But know that you always have that safety net, right? Like, you're always going to have the support of the senior leadership. Even when I was a younger designer starting out. So you just. You don't feel like you're ever just flailing out there, right? You. And it's all about trust, because that was the same thing. As I grew in my career all those years later, I had to learn to let go. And you have to learn as a leader. It's so freeing when you do, because you. That same trust that you got, you're instilling in other people, and then that's how you raise the next generation. And I think that's what's always so exciting for us, is we want to give them as many opportunities as possible. Whether that's project leadership, whether it's mentoring other designers, whether it's, you know, client relationships, Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses. And it's just, how do we come together as a team to make sure that we're always lifting everybody up?
- [06:39]
Interviewer
What do you think drove Chip to want to be that way?
- [06:44]
Kelly
Chip and I are pretty similar in the way that we are. We're very team people. I think whether that comes from, you know, whatever background you come from. We had similar majors. We both like sports. I think it's just. I think it's such a collaborative, and we're both very creative people that I think it's. I think that you have to see the bigger picture in all of this. And if you don't see the bigger picture, then it's stifling, whether it's design or just growing a business or any of those things. So I Think that that is where we're similar. There's other things we don't agree on sometimes, but I think that I was able to see that in him and learn from him in that way as well.
- [07:24]
Interviewer
What do you remember about that? You know, the similarities that you guys to sync up on?
- [07:30]
Chip
I think we love what we do, and it really comes down to that. And the only way we can do it is to surround ourselves with the best talent. So we look for that combination of design ability, technical foundation, communication skills, work ethic. You know, that's all very, very important. And they probably all have a little bit more of an entrepreneurial spirit to them, which is great. We love that. It also means it's maybe harder to retain them because we get the best. We train them really hard. They've good, you know, options for other firms or for themselves too, which is great. We know that we can't keep everybody in our firm, but we really try to treat everybody with respect. And as Kelly said, we give them the opportunities, and it's the ones like she has done that. Reach out, grab that, and run with it. We'll do the full support that have really flourished in our. In our company. And I think that's what's so exciting about it. I see that happening for the next 10 or 20 years, too.
- [08:27]
Interviewer
Where does the culture around the Lighting Design alliance start and how does it grow over time?
- [08:34]
Chip
Yeah, I don't know where it starts. I think it. It's.
- [08:37]
Interviewer
It starts with you.
- [08:38]
Chip
Well, that's what I was going to say, actually, that it's the combination of the two. And that's what was most rewarding when we started this merger talk is we found out they have that same culture to it. And there' a couple of things we insisted to kind of protect our designers, and they said, exactly, that's why we want to partner with you. And then we're like, okay, this is the teammate that we want to be with and things. So it's once again looking for just good people. You know, maybe they're not the most, you know, cloak and dagger designer. Ish, but they have that balance I just talked about. They have similar. I'm going to call it spirit, similar views. We try to treat them like a family, with respect, but at the same time, we're a business. We have to be profitable. Sometimes either of us have to make a hard decision. May not be popular, but at the end of the time, I think everybody really respects that, that it's in everybody's overall best interest.
- [09:33]
Kelly
Anna, if I Can add culture. It's, you know, it's not a slogan. It's not a buzzword. It's not. It's just how we work every day, how we live every day. It's our personalities. It's the blend of the personalities of our team. And I think even when we're interviewing people, it's just. You know, it's just that natural feel sometimes of how it all comes together. We love to have fun. We love what we do. I think it's just we actually like each other at our office, which is important in our business. But like Chip said, I think an important thing to note, too, is we didn't go out seeking to sell the company. I think that's what is so crazy how all this happened, is they came to us. I was probably more hesitant about it, and that was part of the hard discussions, just because we had been talking for over a decade about a certain plan. But I think I had to take my own advice and take a step back and look at that big picture and what is best for everybody, because that's truly the mission from the beginning, is it's not about what's best for him, what's best for me. It's what's best for the future and for all of our people, because that's what makes our culture.
- [10:32]
Chip
I feel really bad because we've always been super open to all of our employees, and this is the first time Kelly and my wife and myself had some of these meetings with the Salas o' Brien team, and we couldn't really share it with the rest of our team because too many times these things fall apart and things. So when we could share the news, there was a little bit of a shock because the transition had already started. And then, you know, it was more like, this is where we're going. And after the shock wore off, it's more like we trust both of us to make the right decision. And four months later, now everybody's super happy. Nothing's changed. They still see the opportunity. We just hired four new people. They all see they're gonna get the support. So we talked about this growing pyramid. We're filling in the foundation underneath that. So we're going as fast as we can to support our teams.
- [11:18]
Interviewer
I mean, it goes without saying, culture is what keeps that together. Trust is what keeps that together. Right. What has it been like to keep all parts and facets and assets of
- [11:31]
Host
that in check through.
- [11:34]
Interviewer
Through your career together?
- [11:35]
Chip
Well, I'm going to expand that, you know, 25% of our firm has been there for over 20 years. So we're talking a lot about Kelly and myself. There's five to 10 other people that have been so, so instrumental in our long term growth and success. And we value them. We really try to do everything we can to protect them, sometimes from themselves. But, you know, the idea is creating these opportunities for them.
- [12:00]
Kelly
And how does it work throughout this whole process, it's almost like it becomes a little simpler. We all just want to do good design and we want to work with good people, and that's timeless. And I think that's what we're always saying, how proud we are of our team. Because it's not just they're amazing designers or they're talented or they come from the best programs. They're really good people.
- [12:19]
Interviewer
How have you guys always, you know, looked at and viewed what hard work means to you?
- [12:23]
Chip
You do it every day, right? I mean, this is not easy. Doing a talk tomorrow, and we're talking about, you know, a quarterback that makes $250 million a year versus someone that makes $300,000. You get rewarded for your effort. So, yes, you have to work hard, but you also have to work efficiently. You also have to surround yourself with great talent so that they make you better. You basically can't do everything. Well, maybe you can, but the reality is, you know, you have to. And Kelly said it, you have to give up control, and that's hard to do. Especially most designers want to ensure the quality and to start to relinquish that. You have to trust your people. And that was probably one of the biggest learning lessons, is to empower them, trust them, maybe do quality control or whatever. Sometimes let them make some mistakes on their own. Hopefully they turn or try to fix those mistakes rather than coming to us to solve those things, because then they just, if you will, elevate their education quicker and faster.
- [13:23]
Interviewer
And can you think back to any time where what might seem crazy is actually manageable and this is good? Yeah.
- [13:33]
Chip
I'm not sure how to answer that. All I can say is I never had a planned roadmap. I never thought when I was in college that I was ever going to get outside of Pennsylvania. Okay, now I joke that I run out of pages in my passport. I didn't have the goal to own my own company. It just came out of the business and how things were going in the late 80s or really, more importantly, the early 90s, that kind of forced us. And it took a mentor that actually said, you need to go strike off on your own. And I'll help you do it. And that was what was really important. So I think some people expect this real simple line. And my whole point is the don't overanalyze it, make good choices. But the reality of it is, even if it's not the perfect choice, learn from it, grow from it. So that you're on a constant growth thing. Everybody thinks it's a straight line and it really isn't. There's a lot of ups and downs along that way. And the better all you can do is just learn from it and grow.
- [14:33]
Kelly
Yeah. And I think we're lucky with what we do. Just lighting design as a business is that every day is new with what we get to do. So I think, you know, we all kind of go through these, you know, peaks and valleys in our career where, you know, whether it's, oh, should I be staying in Los Angeles or, or should I be, you know, trying something else. But I think that's what helps is that every day there's something new and those new projects just keep us invigorated and keep us moving forward.
- [14:59]
Chip
You really get to do these once in a lifetime projects every year or two. And it's pretty amazing of what the firm's been able to achieve at those.
- [15:08]
Interviewer
People can run stuff, right? Or they can run it together or they can run it, you know, with a team. And I might put you in a group of together as, you know, co CEOs and really growing this thing together. How do you complement each other's skill sets?
- [15:23]
Kelly
You know, we have the same big picture passion, but even within that, you know, kind of world, we have different interests and different, not even project related, but just I think we've worked together so long too that we just naturally now Chip wants to take that, Kelly wants to take that. Who, who is the best person to kind of fill in the blanks on these teams and it just, it kind of becomes natural. Yeah, it becomes natural and organic after time.
- [15:51]
Chip
Not about me. It's really more about seeing these people grow. And just as you'll see with your daughter, it's. That's how you experience your life. And I don't say they're all my kids, but I do get a lot of pride in seeing them hit these milestones. They don't know where the top is yet. I think it's still way above what we've done in these new opportunities to create places. When you think about human centric lighting and how the impact we can have, especially now tied together with a firm that does 1,000 hospitals a year. How can we make all those people's lives better? Whether it's the patients, whether it's the doctor or the staff or the families? I mean, this is. We could have some big impact on society, which is pretty exciting.
- [16:31]
Kelly
So I also remember you handing me very important clients that I was like,
- [16:35]
Chip
wow, oh, I'm Disney. You know, that was a big one in particular.
- [16:39]
Kelly
Chip had a long history with Disney, and there was. There was kind of this after Grand Californian. And while we were doing Tokyo Disneyland, there was almost this transition that happened with that, too. And I think that was almost like. I might not have verbalized it at the time or even recognized it, but it was almost like this. Okay, I'm. I can. I can do this, and I'm going to run with this. But again, to know that you have a partnership at some point where you always have someone there to bounce ideas off of and, you know, someone that has the same values and the same design sense and all of those things help, too. It almost gives you that reassurance in order to make you feel free to take those leaps and to take those risks.
- [17:19]
Interviewer
I think part of growth is always taking risk. I'm curious to hear from both of you, you know, what's it like for
- [17:27]
Host
you to take risk?
- [17:29]
Interviewer
How do you process it and approach it? And when do you get the other one involved?
- [17:34]
Chip
There's two ways to do it. Is risk taking can be terrifying, like probably is. You're finding out, you know, to grow our company, you know, we've had to put our house on the line. Okay? So to me, that was motivation to make sure that it doesn't fail. Okay? But at the same time, I think you can also be paralyzed by fear of making a decision. So my wife Lisa says, I want three pro points of view, three cons, just give me little bullet points, and we'll make a decision. And once again, whatever it is, just go with it and make that work.
- [18:09]
Interviewer
I mean, you're talking about project work, right? There's other things that you've had to develop and take risk on, too. Hiring people, keeping people, letting people go.
- [18:21]
Kelly
Well, that's when we both have to get involved for sure. When there's. When it's the. Anything that impacts the people, the business. Big, big fees, things like that. We want to be at checks and balances as well. But, yeah, I think we're both, on a daily basis, we are good at being decisive and making quick decisions. And that comes with experience and trust, of course, with anything but I think we. If it's anything, that's a major risk. I mean, a merger, of course, is the biggest of all anytime recently. But. But that's trust as well. I mean, if we didn't. If we didn't have those honest conversations and the respect. I mean, we. You know, we might not agree on everything, but we respect each other. I've never. There's never a moment that I have ever felt disrespected by clients at work or anything. So I feel like we're very fortunate with that, too. So I think it's a. It's just having those conversations, and sometimes they're hard conversations, but you can't be afraid to have the conversations. Otherwise, that's where.
- [19:15]
Interviewer
That's where what makes it hard, I
- [19:18]
Chip
think the fear of having a conversation sometimes we don't want to create. It's like a marriage almost. And sometimes it's just like, oh, well, forget about. Well, it doesn't work. Or even working with a client, if there's an issue, solve it, find out, expose it, or whatever it is, because it may be 10 minutes of pain versus letting things fester and go on and on. So I would just say deal with things as quickly as you can, and then once again, take the positives out of it and keep going.
- [19:45]
Interviewer
What do you feel like you've done along the way as you've built the company to set it up so that it can be successful beyond, you know, your existence there?
- [19:56]
Kelly
I think there's two things that come to mind there. The. To keep the legacy going. It's all about the people. Like we talked about earlier, it's building the next generation, giving them that freedom to learn and to be. To take their own risks, whether it's in projects or just with clients. Because if we don't have our team, there is no future. Right. These are. These are timeless things that we want to go on forever, but from our side as well. It's showing up. You have to show up for your team. You have to show up for your clients. If we didn't do either one of those things, we wouldn't be where we are today. I think that's the most important thing, and I think that's just looking back. It's so important to just keep showing up, whether it's your personal life or your business life. I think that's, you know, what's so important. We're. We're. There's never a time where we're not available to our team or clients, and I think that's that's what helps. We're a service industry at the end of the day, but we also want to support our team. Like text me anytime you call me anytime. It doesn't matter if it's ten o' clock at night, right? Just, we want to, we want to make sure that you feel empowered or supported in your decisions as well. So I think that's a big important part of what we all do.
- [21:05]
Host
Before we keep going, I want to spotlight someone who shares the same obsession with the design detail that this podcast is built on. Kelvix doesn't just move fast, they move with purpose, helping the design world turn ambitious ideas into seamless, buildable realities. The Kelvix team works at the pace of your project, delivering tailored solutions backed by the people who know how quality, timing and precision elevate the final outcome. In every spec and every collaboration, Kelvix proves lighting is more than illumination. Lighting protects design intent, sharpens the details that matter, and brings spaces to life with clarity and ease. See what's coming next. From breakthrough products to standout projects@kelvix.com or on their social channels, I also want to take a moment to share another company that I respect and enjoy learning from @ledflex. Linear light is designed to do more than illuminate. It's engineered to shape how spaces are experienced. Rooted in British manufacturing, LED Flex works alongside lighting designers, interior designers and architects worldwide, supporting projects where detail, precision and execution matter. They're not just a manufacturer, they're a technical partner providing bespoke solutions, rapid prototyping, commissioning and long term support from early concept through final handover. If light is integral to your architecture, choose a partner who stays with the project and learn more@ledflexgroup.com there's also one more company that I want to introduce you to because they consistently show up where it matters. I know and you know. Every designer knows the success of a space depends on actually what shows up on site.
- [22:49]
Interviewer
And that's where diode LED comes in.
- [22:52]
Host
Lighting performance isn't an add on. It's the foundation of every successful linear lighting project. Designers need solutions that carry ideas smoothly from specification through installation. And diode LED is built to support that reality. With industry leading, inventory, reliable delivery and responsive support, Diode LED keeps pace with real project timelines, not theoretical ones. Real solutions for real projects, no matter the scale. Learn more about what's happening in Reno, Nevada at diodeled.com Pretty neat, huh? All right, let's get back to the conversation.
- [23:29]
Interviewer
I mean, I feel like, it's easy to say, harder to do, right? I mean, just show up.
- [23:33]
Host
It's not that hard.
- [23:34]
Interviewer
Right, but showing up is really hard. I mean, that's baked into, clearly, your culture and the foundation of why the two of you have worked together and what you guys have built. Right? You. You care. You want to do the right thing, right? You only get one shot.
- [23:46]
Chip
And I think it's even more so. We're probably the only lighting firm, or maybe larger one, that doesn't have a marketing department, or I should say, now we have one. But the reality of it is, but as a lighting, it's everybody's job. And I think what we're most proud of is we have probably a dozen clients that we've had for the last 30 years. And as Kelly says, it's, we'll jump through hoops for them because they're our friends, not because they're demanding it. And we also understand that it leads to our next one or our next project of things. And I think all designers love doing the pretty rendering at the beginning and getting all excited. It's doing the dang RFI at the end of the job. I don't want to deal with that. Well, the quick response, because the guys in the field need it. That's just as important as that rendering in the beginning
- [24:38]
Interviewer
you talked about at the start of our conversation. The world's changing. Technology is changing. The marketplace specifically is changing. What changes within the four walls of LDA in terms of future proofing it?
- [24:55]
Chip
I think just being responsive to what's going on out there. The way certain companies, or I should say, owners are going out to bid on jobs. It's not the strict design, bid, build types of jobs. So there's this whole idea of putting together turnkey types of projects. How do we start to deal with that? The integration or the adoption of AI? I mean, as a small firm, we could dream about it. Now we actually have an AI department that will allow us not to do design, but to do the repetitive types of things. That's kind of really exciting. But the biggest change I've seen in the marketplace from an ownership standpoint is before, if there was an issue on a job, everybody would jump on the end, figure it out, and fix it. And clients always had contingencies to, if you will, pick up the last 5% or the quick changes at the very, very end of the job. Now, what I've seen in the last two or three years is, okay, you've made a mistake. Who made the mistake, and who's going to pay for it or thanks for fixing it, but who's going to pay for it? So there's this generational shift. I'll blame it on architects and probably won't be popular. But during the 2008 downturn, architecture took a huge beating. And developers kept asking for more and more and more from the architects without raising their fee. And then when we came out of that, the fees never went back up. And it's still at that point they want fly through renderings, they want all of that. And it's lost a little bit of that professionalism of the architectural firm.
- [26:26]
Interviewer
It's an interesting dilemma, right, to say like specialties are more relevant than they've ever been. My curiosity is if you're 40 to 50 and the best way for you to future proof is, you know, a combined set of resources. That's a lot of effort in and of itself. And if there's 500 design firms out there with 10 or less people like are they deer in the headlights or is there? Is there? Yeah, that's my question.
- [27:03]
Chip
People have to do what is right for them. There's, you know, I know one lighting designer that all they do is conceptual design and markup plans and they have the best lifestyle for them but they can't compete on a big job because they can't produce. Or there's certain people that don't want to do revit or okay. And that somewhat limits them. There's also another firm that, you know, the principal only would go to the client meetings cause he was afraid that the other design members would steal them. That was perfect for that person. We're not that way. We want to be really more inclusive that we take the junior people with us because that's the only way they're going to learn. Now there's always a danger they could quit and steal that client or whatever, but it's a risk we're going to take. So you have to do what you're comfortable with. I think our model's working perfectly for us and our staff. That doesn't mean it works differently. You know, there's bigger firms than us and they're smaller firms. As long as they're working for them and their marketplace and the types of jobs they want to do.
- [28:01]
Kelly
And I think if we're doing our job and our goal is to just keep getting better and better and improving at all times, then we're just helping everybody out. It doesn't matter if you're a one person firm, 10 person firm, 100 person firm. If we're all doing our best and we all have the passion and what we do is such a value for just how everyone lives every day, I think if we just keep doing our jobs in that way, then we're all helping each other. That's how it's always felt even before we went through a merger process.
- [28:31]
Interviewer
It feels that way because it's so natural to you both. Right. When you look back on that, what's something that you can remember where you're most excited and then another moment where you're probably more nervous than you were comfortable?
- [28:46]
Chip
I don't think there's anything that we've regretted. We've always tried to be responsible and I'm gonna say, you know, you know, treat our employees just like we do our clients, with the most respect and,
- [29:00]
Kelly
you know, but I think Chips, you're being very humble with that because I think everyone in our industry knows like he, you know, whether it's education, growing the next generation, all of these things, it's just a, it's, it's a natural thing for him. And we all have different ways of wanting to give back. Whether it's at our alma mater and within our design community or within our local communities. I think it's, he set that tone very early on. And that's why we have so many like minded people that just want to do those things, which makes it feel natural.
- [29:30]
Interviewer
So up to this point in your career, what do you think has been one of the lessons that you've learned? But it's, it's taken a lot longer than it should have.
- [29:39]
Chip
That's taken longer. But we always try to do what is right. And I think trying to instill the spirit to volunteer or to give back isn't adopted by all of our employees. And sometimes I get frustrated with that. I'd say I'm frustrated, but I've also learned to realize we can take the people that want to do it and really nourish that and to, if you will, reward that. But we can't penalize the other people if it's not in their DNA and things.
- [30:07]
Kelly
Yeah, I think that's a great point because I think we both had to learn that lesson that if someone's not meant to be at our company, that's okay. Wherever everybody is supposed to be, that's where you're supposed to be. And I think that that took a while for both of us, you know, maybe one of us longer than the other. But we take it personally. We do take it personally because it is so personal.
- [30:29]
Interviewer
I mean, it's. It's hard. It's a small business, your. Your friends, your family, your co workers. And it's like, well, I'm like this. Why aren't you like that? You know, I think one of the most interesting things to me about business is, you know, short of moving companies every two years, because you're moving the same set of, you know, performance metrics through it, the only way to learn is to be in it. I think it's just, It's. It's inevitable. You know, the best business education, MBA growth opportunities come from getting throttled. And what's crazy is you don't even realize you're getting throttled till it's all over. I admire a partnership in business, wherever it is, and you guys have one, and I think it's really cool. So it's. I don't know, it's kind of. Kind of interesting to hear that. Whether you go at it alone or you go out together, the people, things always kind of hard to figure out.
- [31:21]
Kelly
Yeah, it is. I mean, it's everything. If you don't have that, I mean, I think that's what's so interesting. We're in a creative field. And speaking of what you just said, none of us went to business school, right? So you're in it, and you just have to dive in. And whether that's, you know, confidence, experience, all these things, if you don't. If you don't have the people on the team, then what are you doing?
- [31:45]
Host
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- [32:33]
Interviewer
You know, sitting here today, what's got you pumped?
- [32:37]
Kelly
We both get excited about all the new opportunities, new projects, new types of projects. I think that's what's so interesting about this for both of us, is the scale of it is so big that it's just. It feels like endless opportunities. And I. I don't know. I think at the End of the day, that's what we're, we're both here for. That's what keeps us so inspired. Because it's not the types of projects, even though there's some really cool new project types that we're being exposed to as well. But it's what we talked about earlier. Even something like finishing up Epic Universe, it open new opportunities with, you know, Lighting Design alliance can do that. Right. It used to be, oh, we're just going to do the area development or oh, we'll just do the F and B. We did everything in there. I mean, that's 3,000 universes of control. 1.5 million points of light for a nighttime show. Took Megan a month to program that with our amazing programmers on site. It just shows that the sky is the limit with what we can do. And I think that's what keeps us excited. Right. There's so many different opportunities and we're not saying, oh, we, we're going to get another project like that. It's just, it's constantly pushing the envelope and creativity and technology and all these, these cool things that we get exposed to.
- [33:45]
Host
Do you imagine what's next? Do people come to you and challenge you? Well, what can you do now that you've done this?
- [33:49]
Kelly
Sure.
- [33:50]
Interviewer
Or do they say like, well, we've already got an idea?
- [33:53]
Kelly
No, I think that's always the goal. Like, what's the next project? Because it's all. We don't just think, oh, it'd be really cool to use that light on this project or oh, I got to do this. I saw this, I want to do it on a project. It's all inspired by what the project is, what's the story, what's appropriate, where is it, what part of the world is it in? Who's experiencing this? I think that's what allows our minds to really stretch and then see what, what's a cool thing that we can propose on this?
- [34:16]
Interviewer
And is it even possible you're living in another universe? It's cool.
- [34:21]
Kelly
Literally. Yeah.
- [34:23]
Interviewer
In an epic universe. No pun intended. It's amazing. It's amazing to just try and think about how your next project's only just another, better version from what you've done already and not just doing it again.
- [34:39]
Kelly
Well, I think it got our whole team excited too. Everybody at some point was involved in the project. Right. And I think that's what's so cool. Whether, you know, it was a seven year process. Covid, of course, made it stretch out a little bit longer, but being at the end of the project and bringing a lot of our team members there and being able to experience the project at night, whether it was seeing the nighttime show or riding a roller coaster or riding the carousel. I think all of those things, really getting to. To see it in person and, and to feel what all the people feel when they're there, like, people are. The fact that there's YouTube videos about, and the Today show was talking about our lighting was like that. That doesn't happen. So I think that's what, that's what keeps our team excited. Right. It's just like I was a part of this.
- [35:21]
Chip
It's just being modest because, as you know, in the IES conference, three Disney people were the keynote speaker. And after I went up and talked to him and I said, just curious, have you been to the theme park? And the answer was, thank you. It's elevated the bar. Now they need to raise the bar. That's how impactful it is. And that's just. That's a compliment. I mean, how many times has that happened that, you know, it's really like you're going to make a better, more experience, a greater experience for all their guests, which. That's what this is all about, right? Pay 200 bucks. You really want that once in a lifetime experience there. Well, and I predict it'll be like Disney Grand. California was such an integrated team. 20 years after it opened, the entire design team got back together. That doesn't happen. Okay. That just shows you those relationships, those connections, and that's going to be the same type of project because it was pretty magical how it all came together.
- [36:18]
Interviewer
What are you excited about?
- [36:20]
Chip
The next job? And I'll say that could be our next project that comes in, but our next role, I mean, it's been incredible. The IES conference, the ILD conference, half the people want to know what's going on with us. The other half are like, how can I maybe get involved? Whether it's somebody that's recently retired or looking at, we're going to grow and we're building the bottom level. But now there's also going to be, as it starts gearing up, opportunity for more senior people, too. And what could be better than hiring your friends? I mean, that's truly, you know, the moment that ties it all together.
- [36:58]
Interviewer
Chip, I'd ask you what's next for you, but you've taught me time and time again, you don't know because you're just on a journey. Kelly, you work with Chip, so I can't ask you that question either. But you know, my last question to you both as again, you reflect on your present moment in your careers. If you can go back to your younger self, if you can talk to someone who's getting started and you can't say volunteer because you've already said it, what advice do you give to your
- [37:30]
Host
younger self about
- [37:34]
Interviewer
what you know, which is trusting the journey and challenging yourself in all this opportunity?
- [37:38]
Kelly
Yeah, I think it's what we talked about earlier, showing up. That showing up thing is important because especially when you're younger, you're like, eh, do I really, you know, maybe just don't let things fall to the wayside. Take advantage of every opportunity. And I think that goes for anything in life. But I think it's also really trust your gut. So if you surround yourself with those good people and whether it's mentors, you know, just people in your industry that you trust, I think that goes a long way because if you are with those people, you're just along for that journey and you have no idea what's ahead. But it could be even bigger than you imagine. I think that's what's so cool is 26 years ago I didn't who thought we'd be sitting here talking about a merger. Right. Because that was not ever part of the plan. But it's just like Chip said, everything has been so organic and so natural that we're pretty lucky. I mean we get, we get paid for our opinion on lighting at the other day. It's. It's a pretty awesome career to be in.
- [38:31]
Chip
I'm going to just say enjoy the journey. I think that was probably my one regret is working so hard or whether it's trying to get home to be with our daughters as they were growing up or trying to get back to go to the next job or whatever, you know, and I've seen not so much you, but, you know, Annie's gotten the chance of doing a job in Cairo and then going to the pyramids and I've been lucky to see a tremendous amount of things. And all I would just express to everybody out there is take the opportunity to learn and to see because I think that's what's really going to help them. And then 20 years later, or in our case 40 years later, it goes by so fast. But that's what you remember. All these questions about regrets and bad things, they think basically they're gone. All I remember is all the great stuff.
- [39:19]
Kelly
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
- [39:20]
Interviewer
Although all the good stuff, show up and enjoy it. If you guys need a new tagline for your merch company. That's pretty good.
- [39:28]
Kelly
Okay, we're gonna put it on a T shirt. Don't worry.
- [39:31]
Interviewer
Show up and enjoy it.
- [39:32]
Kelly
Show up and enjoy it.
- [39:33]
Interviewer
Good luck with the next chapter of everything that you bring to this world and galaxy. Galaxy.
- [39:40]
Kelly
Galaxy.
- [39:41]
Chip
That's right outside of the planet.
- [39:45]
Interviewer
You could be the first people to do a lighting design on Mars.