Loading summary
Transcript222 lines
- [00:01]
Sarah Broughton
As an architect and a designer, we really feel like it's our job to delight. I certainly wake up on a daily basis pretty stoked about what I'm doing.
- [00:12]
Podcast Host
This is Sarah Broughton, world renowned for designing the custom homes of billionaires In a place where nature demands respect and architecture is driven by sustainability. Welcome to Aspen, Colorado.
- [00:30]
Sarah Broughton
Inherently, there's a risk taking aspect to designing something for yourself. Our job is to look at maybe what's not being said or not being asked. If you're just doing something for style, then go into fashion. We have an obligation to be building something that takes 40% of the Earth's resources and building it to last and building a dev legacy and building it really well. The first time you have to have a very open heart. We have a client and she said to me years ago, she's like, I don't ever want to hear no from you. And that was so motivating for me. Lighting is super important to talk about and the expectations around lighting, I think it's so important to understand. First the daylighting and then when it becomes the time to rely on electrical lighting. What did that daylight evoke in you? What did it physically do, but then also how did it make you feel Going back to the style thing? I'm mid career. It's a fun place to be, but it's also challenging and you have to remain relevant. You have to deliver, I think even on a whole different level. Now what? You know, now what? Not. Not a reinvention, but like Sam.
- [02:27]
Podcast Host
Before we jump in, I want to thank five companies that show up for this community. Eureka, Kelvix, Leadflex, Diode LED and Targetta usa. Because this show exists thanks to their belief in designers and the way they work every single day. I want to share something with you before we dive in. It matters to me and I think it matters to you too. It's not something people imagine. They just experience it. They that moment when a space you designed actually exists in the world and people walk into it feeling something without knowing why. That's not luck. That's your design, your instinct, your eye, the obsession with getting it right. Eureka luminaires are crafted for this mindset. And they aren't just intentionally designed. They're driven by a genuine passion, a push to innovate and the performance to back it up. Their statement pieces anchor a space and make people stop. So when your project needs that moment, that thing people feel without knowing why, Eureka is probably a good place to start. Check out eureka lighting.com. it's the kind of rabbit hole you'll
- [03:29]
Lighting Designer
be glad you fell into.
- [03:32]
Podcast Host
Pretty cool, huh? All right, let's dive into this conversation.
- [03:36]
Lighting Designer
How does it feel to be here?
- [03:37]
Sarah Broughton
Awesome.
- [03:38]
Podcast Host
How does it feel to come back to this project?
- [03:40]
Sarah Broughton
I love this project.
- [03:41]
Lighting Designer
Why do you love it?
- [03:43]
Sarah Broughton
Look at this room we're in. It's unbelievable. And I think what I love most about this room is not only the views and just the indoor outdoor relationship that we have here and just being on this amazing meadow with these amazing mountains, but also how the room just completely speaks to the people who live here. And, you know, we've been here so many times. We've been here for talks where people are piled on the sofa and. And different dance parties. There's on purpose room behind this couch with no furniture, just so life can happen. There can be dancing, there can be stretching, There can be whatever needs to happen. And so I think that's why I love this house, and I especially love this room. I also really love the collaboration that we did in this room with the Haas brothers, with the custom fireplace mantel that is on the other side, in this really cozy study that's on the other side of this room. And just to be able to collaborate with our clients and have their trust, but then also to bring in beautiful makers and artisans and be able to create something completely bespoke to the place and to the people is really fulfilling.
- [04:58]
Lighting Designer
You mentioned beauty. We're in Aspen. This place is gorgeous. You know, what is. What is so special about Aspen, yet challenging at the same time?
- [05:09]
Sarah Broughton
Aspen is a really special place. My husband and I moved here in 2000, so it's been 26 years. And we keep saying it keeps getting better. Obviously, it has its challenges. Many places have their challenges. And I think what keeps getting better for us is this magnetic draw that there is to nature, to our relationship with nature here, to the quiet, and that's accessible to everybody. What draws people here is, again, first and foremost, nature. And I think that's. People can come from all walks of life and whatever economic class you're in, but you come here, and we have a demanding clientele that are very worldly, and they. They are in a lot of places, and they demand the same from us. And it's our job to deliver on that. And so for us, that's a. That's a great opportunity, and it's an honor to be in those positions with the clients that we have.
- [06:11]
Podcast Host
When they hire you, what's the real
- [06:13]
Lighting Designer
reason they're hiring you? Why do people hire architects to be
- [06:16]
Sarah Broughton
in a position of being someone's architect is a massive honor, especially when it's someone's home. And the house we're in here today, they live here full time, which is really fantastic. And it's great to see the family evolve and throughout the years and how they use the spaces. And really our job as architects is to understand that about a family and what their needs are today and what they might be tomorrow, but not overbuild it either. It's that right balance that you need to be constantly looking for. One of the things I love about being a residential architect is that really personal nature of what we get to do, and we get to ask a lot of really great questions and people share really amazing things. And architecture is obviously a physical embodiment, right? It's space with materials, but it also is an emotional thing. And maybe it's something that from their childhood that they had a certain arrangement of rooms in the house they grew up in, or they had this memory of a parent in a certain way. And so it's bringing back those cherished moments and bringing them back to life for then maybe their family to have that similar experience.
- [07:38]
Podcast Host
Walk me through
- [07:41]
Lighting Designer
the first time you meet someone and that all happens by
- [07:44]
Sarah Broughton
nature of being a good architect is you have to be incredibly curious. And so there's a lot of questions, but then there's just a lot of observing and listening and seeing the reaction. Often when we are designing a home for someone and they have homes in other locations, we go to those other locations just to observe it and to see it, and we take away a lot from that experience. Most people know when they're coming to an architect, there's a lot that they have to share in order for it to be successful. But I think again, our job is to look at maybe what's not being said or not being asked and again, be just good students and good studiers of. Of what, what, what we're observing as an architect and a designer. You know, we really feel like it's our job to delight if we can show something to a client and have them express, which we've been lucky to have multiple points in our career. I didn't even know I needed that. I didn't even know I wanted that. And now I can't live without it or gosh, I didn't even know I could live such an organized life. And not, not that we're trying to like over organize people, but like if you can walk into a home and things have a place you can Put it there. You can then enjoy time with your family and maybe not be distracted by a lack of clarity that a really well designed space can give you. So that's all stuff that we're thinking about, and that's what's fun. It's so fun to surprise and delight a client, but super collaborative. And our clients are incredibly involved with the process. I think it is. I use the word surprise, but I actually think there's a big difference between surprising someone and delighting somebody. We actually don't want to surprise somebody. We want to delight them. And I think there's an important distinction between that. There is also this fine art of being the expert in the room of which we are, but also giving our client agency and the space to maybe get to the right solution for them and through that process. And that's not black and white. That's a process, and that's part of our design process. What evolves and what the outcome is is even better than maybe what we think it should have been from the beginning or even what the client thinks. It's that collaboration and that design iteration that gets it to that sweet spot. And so allowing that to happen is really important.
- [10:29]
Lighting Designer
There's nothing more intimate than designing a space that people retreat to create the most fond memories of, right?
- [10:39]
Sarah Broughton
There is nothing better when working with someone and nailing it. Right. It's like a gymnast getting off the high beam and having the perfect 10. And within that is artistic moments. Right? People respond to different things, right? Especially, you know, I run a team of, you know, multiple creatives, and everyone responds to accolades in different ways. I'd say, for me, personally, you just know when it's right, and it's a feeling you have. And then obviously, the client, it's great when they say something. And again, having a client say, and we've heard this, I didn't even know that I wanted that or I didn't know how impactful that would be for me. And being in this house here today with you, it's amazing. Every time I'm in this house, every room is being used.
- [11:34]
Lighting Designer
That's cool.
- [11:35]
Sarah Broughton
This house is loved. And it's because I think it's so intimate to the people that we designed it for.
- [11:43]
Lighting Designer
Did you nail it?
- [11:44]
Sarah Broughton
I think we nailed it. Yeah, I think we nailed it. But it's not for everybody. And we say this to clients all the time. Like, if you have a phone, you know, it's gone through a thousand prototypes. What we're sitting in here is a prototype. There's only One of these. And so you have to have a very open heart. And inherently there's a risk taking aspect to designing something for yourself. And you have to have trust, like you're saying, and you have to know that there's going to be things that maybe you have to revisit and go, that's not, that's not there yet. We need to keep working on that because there's only one.
- [12:24]
Lighting Designer
You mentioned this home specifically. It's loved, it's used. There is totally an experience here. One might argue you're in the business of creating that. To your point, at the most intimate level, what still surprises you about having to do that and what clients ask you for?
- [12:45]
Sarah Broughton
I think what surprises me and keeps me, you know, super interested in what I do on a daily basis is how different people really are. And there are, you know, there are definitely certain things that, you know, again, if you look at a house program that are just kind of givens, but then everyone always has their own particular thing and then we have our particular thing, just things we've known work really well. And that, gosh, this, you're not even asking for this, but we're going to do this for you because we just know that you're going to appreciate this.
- [13:16]
Lighting Designer
What's an example of something like that, of.
- [13:19]
Podcast Host
Of something that's unexpected, something that you're
- [13:22]
Lighting Designer
going to give them that they're not even asking for.
- [13:26]
Sarah Broughton
Balanced light is one thing. You know, we in Colorado, we have really harsh light and our view is typically in the direction of that harsh light, south or west often. So our job is to balance that natural light. And we're thinking about that. That's not something a client's coming to you and going, I want balanced light in my house. Our job is to give them the view. Yeah, but to have that window over there and this window over here and that opening and that opening to help balance the light, to balance the flow.
- [14:02]
Lighting Designer
So, yeah, like there's. Because there's a solar shade. Yep, I guess that's what you would call it.
- [14:07]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, it's a brief solar brie that's there on purpose. It's west. Facing west is a challenge.
- [14:12]
Lighting Designer
And then over here you've got like eight feet of overhang.
- [14:16]
Sarah Broughton
Overhang. So we're doing a lot of solar studies. I have to tell you, we, we do VR for pretty much every project now. And it's been a game changer. And it's not just for the clients. It's for us internally, where you can really anticipate and you can get a little bit further on the prototype because before this technology as you're building, that's the mock up. So we are trying to get ahead of things and make sure the scale and the spaces are feeling right, but there's always opportunity during construction. And so part of our job of being involved on a weekly basis in construction is looking for those opportunities.
- [14:53]
Lighting Designer
So, dumbass. Loaded question, but I've got to ask, what is construction to you?
- [14:58]
Sarah Broughton
No, construction is an art. I think what we. What we are asking our contractors to do and relying on them to do is doing what we're sitting in right now. And that's a team sport. And again, that's something you cannot anticipate every single aspect of. And so you need to have that openness and that spirit of collaboration that people will be willing to raise their hand and say, I've been thinking about this. There might be a better way to do this. Or you also then, like when we were walking around, I was showing you a window that I had to fight for really hard on this project to keep because they weren't seeing the vision. So that's. Sometimes you also just have to say, you guys, we have to do this. This is the right thing to do.
- [15:49]
Lighting Designer
What point do you feel like people stopped hiring you for your style and your design and started just hiring you to trust your judgment?
- [15:59]
Sarah Broughton
I think from day one, and I think if you approach a relationship with a client in any other way other than that, you're not serving them right.
- [16:13]
Lighting Designer
Tell me more.
- [16:14]
Sarah Broughton
I think it goes back to being the expert. I've had a very linear career, so I've been basically in this profession, you know, since I've been 21 years old and working. And our clients don't have that experience. So even if you have a couple years of experience, you still know more than them about a couple things, right? So they're relying on you to bring that up. And that can be scary when you're maybe young in your career and you don't maybe. And there's so much about imposter syndrome these days and. And, you know, which are legitimate feelings. Right? So. So I would say, you know, get mentors, get people on your teams and talk to them about that. How do you come forward with your confidence of, you know what? I've studied this. This is what we need to be doing here. If you're just doing something for style, then go into fashion or go into maybe even set design. We have an obligation to be building something that takes 40% of the Earth's resources and building it to last and building it to have legacy and building it really well the first time. So that's something that we take very seriously. And it can't be based on style. I mean, that's part of the equation. I think that's what's so fascinating about architects is we have this weird dichotomy of being engineers and scientists and know, very technical, but we also couple it with, again, the style. And you'd think what's happening more and more and the world is pushing people to be specialists right now. And I would say, as much as you can, try to remain broad as well, because it's really amazing to be able to either through the team, be able to bring both to every problem.
- [18:21]
Lighting Designer
What do you mean about being broad?
- [18:23]
Sarah Broughton
There's that saying about architects. Like, we just know a little about a lot. And that's not a bad thing. Obviously we bring in technical people and we have a lot of technical people on our team, but it's our job to know about a lot of things because there's a lot of decisions. There's a lot of things that are going into a project like this. We have a client and she said to me years ago, she's like, I don't ever want to hear no from you. And that was so motivating for me. And just like, the possibilities around that of, like, yes, like, I want yeses from you. I want, like, in your team, like, yes, we're going to figure this out. There is a solution here. And that was such an amazing way to approach us as creatives that they've hired. And the trust that that statement also had with it of, like, we know you've got this. Like, show us you've got this.
- [19:19]
Lighting Designer
I'm going to challenge you. Don't tell me no. Back to that judgment versus style piece you mentioned. Style is a part of the equation. When. When they hired you and they said, don't tell me no,
- [19:35]
Podcast Host
what's the dialogue
- [19:36]
Lighting Designer
like when it comes to being bold and standing up and telling them, I'm not telling you no, I'm telling you no and a yes, you can say
- [19:49]
Sarah Broughton
no when it's the right thing to say. And there's certainly times where you need to. There's life, safety, what we're dealing with, and there's real environmental factors to what we do. I want to go back to the style question. Certainly you need to have good style, right, to do the projects and to have, you know, the type of clients they're coming because you have Good style and you, you, you know, nice things and you know how to put together, you know, comprehensive designs that are. That are really beautiful and, and make people feel good. So that's definitely part of it, and then you can technically put it together. But I think the reason why the yes thing has stuck with me is there is actually a yes to everything. Right? It's just almost sometimes how the question's being framed, or if someone's coming to us for a design solution on something. There's a yes. There is a design solution out there. We're going to figure something out. It may not be obvious, it may take time, but there's going to be a yes. Or maybe we need to reframe the question so that it can become a yes. You know what's fascinating about the yes, it's usually the little things. It's the small little. Often, you know, we. We're so lucky to have clients that be in our lives for decades, right? Because you build something and. And then their lives evolve also. Oh, now we're. We need to think about this a little bit differently or, or this. And so I find usually the. The hard yeses are the really, really challenging design moments where something maybe wasn't conceived in that way in the beginning, but that you have to, like, create that now out of something that didn't maybe have the bones to be that originally. So in those moments, like a room recently that was. I'm going to use residential examples that was originally designed as a guest bedroom. They wanted to make it into, like, a really cozy game room layer, but it still had, like, a bathroom that is obviously for a bedroom, you know, so that's when you have to go back to your design process and go, okay, let's conceive of this as a room with four walls and almost, you know, like, with a few of these existing parameters and what can this be? And so I think oftentimes we are. We're victims of our own kind of context, or especially if you've been involved with it before, it's hard to erase that of what it was. And so it's almost like cleaning the slate and allowing yourself to do that and going, okay, let's treat this as a whole new thing. I have a saying that I say all the time, that was then, this is now. And I think it's really important to remember that, especially as a designer and architect, because again, like we said already here today, life is changing, and we're not the same people we were a year ago. We're not Even the same people we were six months ago, because we've had life happen. And so it's really rich to bring that into the equation and to have the confidence to go. I'm looking at this a little bit differently today because of these things. So look at Covid. What Covid did to us as designers. We're putting sinks where we probably wouldn't put sinks before. Just. That's a very pragmatic thing. But you cannot ignore that. Of what happened. I will say what's happening with COVID is post. Covid is. There's. There's just this almost franticness about time. And. And so part of our job is to deliver at a really high quality quickly. And so you have to practice to do that. Well, that is not something that you're just born with.
- [23:51]
Lighting Designer
Yeah, cheap, fast and good don't go together.
- [23:54]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah. And it's, it's. But. But to be good and fast, forget the cost side. Yeah, that is a real art. And you have to, you know, keep. Just because you're getting paid doesn't mean you're going to deliver on that.
- [24:08]
Lighting Designer
What's your design philosophy today?
- [24:12]
Sarah Broughton
My design philosophy today has been what it's always been, and it's really a convergent way of looking at design, and it's a holistic way of approaching a project, which is, again, why, for me, it's been so important to not only be a licensed architect, but to be a licensed interior designer, to really understand lighting, to understand landscape. Not to try to do everyone's job, but to enhance and to be a better collaborator. When you look at a project, when you look at a project holistically, that is what drives me, and that's what's always driven me. And when I. When I travel, I look at the Italian Bottega model, and that's something that from day one has. Has always interested me in being an architect and a designer where. Where it's comprehensive. And we're, you know, as the architect, we're doing everything. And that when I go into those spaces, that's when I really feel that comprehension and it speaks to me personally. So I like that. Not everyone wants that, but for me, that drives me and it drives our firm, which is why we're. We're made up of architects and interior designers and, you know, so we're working on both, often for projects.
- [25:30]
Podcast Host
Comprehensive design seems like the obvious way
- [25:32]
Lighting Designer
to do it to me.
- [25:33]
Podcast Host
And I know specification lighting manufacturers feel the same way. Things have to be curated and the details matter. I want to spotlight three Real quick. Kelvix doesn't move fast, they move with purpose, helping the design world turn ambitious ideas into seamless, buildable realities. The Kelvix team works at the pace of your project, delivering tailored solutions backed by people who know how quality, timing and precision elevate the final outcome in every spec and every collaboration. Kelvix proves lighting is more than just illumination. Lighting protects design intent, sharpens the details that matter, and brings spaces to life with clarity and ease. See what's coming next. From breakthrough products to standout projects@kelvix.com another manufacturer I respect and enjoy working with is Lead Flex. Where linear light is designed to do more than illuminate. It's engineered to shape how spaces are experienced. Rooted in British manufacturing, LED Flex works alongside lighting designers, interior designers and architects worldwide, supporting projects where detail, precision and execution matter. They're not just a manufacturer, they're a technical partner providing bespoke solutions, rapid prototyping, commissioning and long term support from early concept through final handover. If light is integral to your architecture, choose a partner who stays with the project. Learn more@ledflexgroup.com stick with me because I want to make sure we both know and can agree that every designer knows the success of a space depends on what actually shows up on site. And that's where Diode LED comes in. Lighting performance isn't an add on. It's the foundation of every successful linear lighting project. Designers need solutions that carry ideas smoothly from specification through installation. And Diode LED is built to support that reality. With industry leading inventory, reliable delivery and responsive support, Diode LED keeps pace with real project timelines, not theoretical ones. Real solutions for real projects, no matter the scale. Check them out and learn more about what's happening in Reno, Nevada@diode led.com thanks for listening. Thanks to these partners. Now let's get back to the conversation.
- [27:50]
Lighting Designer
There's this loaded word you use. I feel like everyone uses it. It's collaboration. How do you define collaboration?
- [27:58]
Sarah Broughton
Good question. Because I think collaboration, to me and to our firm, it's really going back to that open heartedness and that curiosity. And what's ours to do. And ours to do is to give something to the client that they didn't even know they wanted. To delight them, to add value to their life, to have a fiduciary responsibility to their budget and on top of that, to be incredibly impactful in contributing to the community that surrounds the project. That's a lot.
- [28:37]
Lighting Designer
Yeah, it's way more than working together
- [28:41]
Podcast Host
like, hey, can you move the log
- [28:43]
Lighting Designer
across the river for me? Yeah, sure.
- [28:44]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah.
- [28:46]
Podcast Host
Instead, why do you want the log
- [28:48]
Lighting Designer
moved across the river?
- [28:49]
Sarah Broughton
So when it's just asking questions, but being at a pace and a sense of urgency with that, you know, because you could sit around and talk about it all day, but ultimately, at the end of the day, you have a schedule and you're trying to get something done, but it's. There's a million ways to ask a question.
- [29:04]
Lighting Designer
You know what my next question is? Lighting.
- [29:07]
Sarah Broughton
Let's talk about lighting.
- [29:08]
Lighting Designer
Collaborating with lighting. Speaking of lighting and getting nuked by this beautiful sunlight. I know there's blinds here, and of course, if the homeowner were home, we'd put them down.
- [29:22]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah. It's really this time of year. Right. We're in. We're at that tough time of year. West facing where the sun is low. It's hard to. It's hard to. We try to break sun before it enters the house. That's the best way to passively solar address it.
- [29:39]
Lighting Designer
But put shades down.
- [29:42]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah. Do you want to put the shades down?
- [29:43]
Lighting Designer
No. Because I only get one shot at this for you.
- [29:46]
Sarah Broughton
Okay.
- [29:46]
Lighting Designer
It's fine.
- [29:47]
Sarah Broughton
All right. The sun looks great on you.
- [29:49]
Lighting Designer
Thank you. I appreciate it. Nobody's ever told me that. That's great. The sun looks great on you. You should live on a beach.
- [29:57]
Podcast Host
What are you doing here?
- [29:58]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah.
- [30:02]
Lighting Designer
Lighting and collaborating. Right. It's. It's something that's. It's tough.
- [30:10]
Sarah Broughton
Is it? Yeah.
- [30:12]
Podcast Host
Because.
- [30:13]
Sarah Broughton
Why?
- [30:14]
Podcast Host
Because without light, you don't see anything.
- [30:18]
Lighting Designer
Right?
- [30:19]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah.
- [30:19]
Podcast Host
So there's all this.
- [30:20]
Lighting Designer
There's all this tough.
- [30:22]
Podcast Host
It's tough because you got to get that.
- [30:23]
Lighting Designer
Right.
- [30:24]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, but you do.
- [30:26]
Lighting Designer
You do. But if we look around, like, not right now. We're nailing the lighting right now.
- [30:35]
Podcast Host
I just feel like you do get
- [30:38]
Lighting Designer
it right, by the way. Right. There's this curiosity. There's a prototype that becomes someone's home, and you have to. You have to get it right. But to the extent that you have to create that delight and everything else, you have to understand that. So when you look at the volume of a house, when you look at spaces and putting everything together, you mentioned daylight, and we can start there, but, you know, from daylight to electric light. What does lighting do in a project for you in a home?
- [31:10]
Sarah Broughton
I think it's so important to understand first the day lighting that's happening in a home, and then when it becomes the time to rely on electrical lighting, what did that daylight evoke in you? Right. What did it physically do? But then Also, how did it make you feel? To me, the best kind of lighting, There is not really a difference between day and night in terms of the overall feel of a place. I think that that's number one. I think obviously feeling, thinking about lighting sooner than later is super important. I say the challenge with lighting is it's easy and we, you know, we do it, we suffer from this. Also to put cans and ceilings, how do we layer lighting? How do we create other lighting in an environment, in a room that is not reliant? Let the cans be for when there needs to be, you know, cleaning and big, you know, big lighting in a room. But how do we really create the emotion in a room and what does that emotion want to be when you
- [32:21]
Lighting Designer
look at the electric light piece of it, is there a curiosity that you want to know from the client that's going to drive maybe how that starts to shape the space? Or have you learned that's another thing we're just going to delight you with?
- [32:38]
Sarah Broughton
No, lighting is super important to talk about. And the expectations around lighting and they can vary even, let's say we're working with a couple, one member of the couple might want it really bright and the other one doesn't. So how do you balance that and provide both? So there's always nuances to all lighting questions. No, you have to talk about lighting. We mock up lighting a lot also, especially if we're doing something we do often on projects. We'll create skylights that during the day are bringing in light, but then they look like skylights at night. So, and that's a really challenge technically to get right. So those are going through a lot of mock ups to see how that's performing. And again, we're prototyping it.
- [33:26]
Lighting Designer
What, what curiosity, what questions do you bring to people to start to learn about what their preference for lighting is?
- [33:32]
Sarah Broughton
Do they want a lot of lamps? Some people don't want any lamps. Other people want a ton of lamps. When you're in a room, do you, do you want the, the lighting at your eye level, you know, where, where a room is mainly, you know, being seated? Those kind of questions. It's even simple questions like, do you like sconces? I mean, some people don't like sconces. Some people do. Do you love decorative lighting or, or do you want it architectural? Right. Really more hidden. Those are all part of the programming that we're talking about when we're thinking about spaces.
- [34:04]
Lighting Designer
Does it vary in the home, room to room?
- [34:07]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It totally varies in this room, right, this is a bright room. We do have overhead lights in this room. We have a lot of lamps too. And then the room on the other side, you know, the double sided fireplaces is meant to be very moody and low level lighting and, you know, integral lighting in the bookshelves and, you know, sconces. So that was very deliberate.
- [34:29]
Lighting Designer
Do you ever have to convince people they need one kind of lighting versus another?
- [34:32]
Podcast Host
If they're claiming they want this, but
- [34:34]
Lighting Designer
they really need that, or can you make the hidden versus the scene work in any application?
- [34:41]
Sarah Broughton
We do a lot of hidden lighting, we do a lot of architectural lighting, we design a lot of lighting on projects in collaboration with a lighting designer because oftentimes we don't want something decorative. That's not the right response. We work with a lot of art collectors who at the end of the day, they want very good wall space. So we have to be clever on how we're being able to deliver great lighting, you know, to highlight art if they want it highlighted, or the right level of highlighting for the spaces, but that also allow them to collect and do the other things they want to do. It's something that we're thinking about all the time.
- [35:20]
Lighting Designer
It's this interesting challenge that you bring up, lighting the walls because there's art on them. One can argue if you light the walls, you light the space, you don't need to light the floor. I want to see you, you want to see me, you want to see the art in your home. We all know light reflects and bounces.
- [35:34]
Podcast Host
What is your knowing a little about? A lot.
- [35:37]
Lighting Designer
And specifically with lighting, where's the convergence? Tick to? I'm out and the specialist is in.
- [35:47]
Sarah Broughton
I think it's not in or out. Right. It's together. And lighting is changing, evolving all the time. So we have to rely on the specialists. And again, we do mockups. We bring in actual fixtures, often on lights, you know, just even the, you know, the dimmed warm. Right. And this, that technology, a client shouldn't have to know those things. It's our job to educate them. Here's where it's heading. Here's the technology. Is this something you're interested in? A client's either into beta testing or they want the 2.0. And it's, it's. I hate to be black and white, but you can kind of almost go there and they will be very upfront. People know who they are. So we ask that question all the time. Do you, Are you interested in beta testing this, this is the new technology. This is where it's going, you know, But. But we don't. We don't. We haven't done it a lot of times. So we'll be doing this together with you, or we've done this. We know this. This is what we're going to do. I think it's also understanding that level of comfort with people, especially when it comes to systems.
- [37:01]
Lighting Designer
Lighting's become a system.
- [37:02]
Sarah Broughton
Lighting is a system.
- [37:03]
Lighting Designer
Like, it's no longer switches on a wall with placement, although we have switches
- [37:07]
Sarah Broughton
on a wall here.
- [37:08]
Podcast Host
I see that all through this house.
- [37:09]
Sarah Broughton
By design. Yeah, by design.
- [37:11]
Lighting Designer
Definitively don't build a house in 2000, put switches on the wall unless it's intentional.
- [37:16]
Sarah Broughton
And we actually do it quite a bit.
- [37:18]
Lighting Designer
You do. Tell me more about that.
- [37:21]
Sarah Broughton
I just think that our clients often have very active lives. They're very busy, and they. They don't want to be frustrated by programming, not working, by walking into a house that maybe they have a couple houses that they want to have to relearn every time they come, or that they have to have someone there a week ahead of time, hopefully anticipating all the things. So those are the kind of those leading questions we ask. And there's times where the right response is, let's do rheostats, let's do light switches and dimmers, and cut that frustration out of it.
- [38:07]
Lighting Designer
On the other side of it, like something that's fully automated, they walk in the house, they never touch a light.
- [38:14]
Sarah Broughton
Do you do that all the time also? So again, it goes back to. It's not one size fits all right. And it's really, again, just getting really adept at asking questions. And I can ask you a couple questions and get a sense and like, it doesn't have to be a long process and we can do it, but then also, don't make assumptions, you know, revisit that question. Hey, when we first started talking about this, this is where you were or we were. It's a different world today. Do you think we should revisit doing a lighting system? Because we have so many different circuits going on, and we have so many layers of lighting that's evolved through the design process. And actually, a lighting system is better
- [38:56]
Lighting Designer
in the fully automated world. What still frustrates you about that and what do you love about it?
- [39:03]
Sarah Broughton
I love the. The lack of wall clutter that that gives you. And so, you know, I would say 8 out of 10 projects, we're doing light systems just because there are so many layers of lighting. I think frustration is the amount of time and you know, and we ask clients all the time, like, do you want us to do it and take our best guess? And the guess is not. It's educated guess. And we'll walk it just like you will walk it and we'll, you know, and then you can make a few changes. Or do you want to be part of that process? And everyone's different on that, too.
- [39:38]
Lighting Designer
Everybody can stand on their high horse and say that what they do is what makes it all happen. Right. I'll be the biased lighting person. You can have the most beautiful home in the world, but if it's lit like shit, forget about it. Architectural lighting designers, just like you have careers in one tiny little specialty and getting all these details right. Is there ever a moment for you where the lighting detail comes and it's. What's your phrase? That was.
- [40:07]
Sarah Broughton
That was then, this is now.
- [40:08]
Lighting Designer
Yeah, that was then, this is now.
- [40:10]
Podcast Host
Does that happen with lighting details where
- [40:12]
Lighting Designer
it forces you to rethink spaces?
- [40:14]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, absolutely. In the spirit of a lighting designer, really understanding. Okay, in order for us to achieve this, what do we need to be providing for you?
- [40:24]
Lighting Designer
Let's.
- [40:25]
Sarah Broughton
Like shelving lighting. It seems such a simple concept, but it's actually really challenging to get right. Are they adjustable shelves? That adds complexity. You know, there's just a lot of things to be thinking about. You know, you don't want to see it. So how do we make sure. We design the shelf in a way with. In, you know, in tandem with the lighting designer to make sure that that detail is right. These are. These are things that, you know, you can. You bring experience and you bring what you did last time and then to a new parameter, right? To maybe a new function, to something. So there's always something keeping. Keeping you interested.
- [41:05]
Lighting Designer
Is there like a. A menu or a bible of, like, These are the 17 different ways we've done it. But we're gonna. We're gonna do it different for you anyways. But, like, do you try to inspire
- [41:15]
Podcast Host
people with that, or do you just
- [41:16]
Lighting Designer
listen to them and create the detail for them?
- [41:18]
Sarah Broughton
No, we try to inspire people with that. And we can talk about what's interesting with the, like, under cabinet lighting. Here at this house, we have, like, in the kitchen, we have it at the front of the under cabinet and the back, which is. Which is not typically what you do. But we wanted to have that task lighting, you know, when the center of the cabinet or the counter below and. But we wanted to skim the beautiful stone from the back.
- [41:40]
Lighting Designer
These details matter. You put them all together Lights have to move, details have to change. How do you approach the challenges specifically when it comes to lighting?
- [41:50]
Sarah Broughton
This is another thing that we talk about a lot. You have to. I think I'm going to answer this in a broad way and then I'm going to talk specifically about lighting. I think it's really important to understand people's business models. And so when you work with consultants, like a lighting designer, their business model, they have a lot more projects than we have.
- [42:09]
Lighting Designer
Hell yeah, they do.
- [42:10]
Sarah Broughton
But that's their business model.
- [42:11]
Lighting Designer
They have to.
- [42:11]
Sarah Broughton
They have to. That's their business model. So our job as the architects is to challenge them and to actually review their work and collaborate with them. Because they probably are not even thinking about it as much as we are. Not. Because they're not great and they're not super talented. That's just not how it's built and how they deliver. So they're relying on their expertise and so they're getting that out there. We now have to take that and apply it and go, wow, does that shelving detail, is that going to work with what we're trying to do in this application and then get them the feedback back? I think that that creates really successful projects where there's that give and take and there's that collaboration that's happening.
- [43:01]
Lighting Designer
You can argue, like, they're actually beta testing way more than you are. True that detail.
- [43:06]
Sarah Broughton
True.
- [43:06]
Lighting Designer
So then they can say, okay, front or back? Cool. This is the way to do it on the phone. I just did it on these two projects. It worked great for this. Your project isn't that. I mocked it up that way. This is where I feel like this fancy word of collaboration actually breaks itself down to, like, that delight.
- [43:24]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah. Like, I completely agree with you.
- [43:27]
Podcast Host
Like, let's. Let's drive home.
- [43:28]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah.
- [43:29]
Lighting Designer
I'm challenging you and it's kind of fun. It's like, oh, yeah.
- [43:35]
Podcast Host
And you hired me because I did
- [43:36]
Lighting Designer
it three different ways and, like, we don't even need to worry about it.
- [43:40]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah.
- [43:40]
Lighting Designer
Oh, here's the pictures from the mock up.
- [43:42]
Sarah Broughton
Right.
- [43:42]
Lighting Designer
That's fun.
- [43:43]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah.
- [43:43]
Podcast Host
That's pretty cool, actually.
- [43:45]
Sarah Broughton
Almost giving them permission. Like, I know you've done something like this before. What have you done? Let's see it.
- [43:50]
Lighting Designer
Yeah.
- [43:51]
Sarah Broughton
How have you attacked?
- [43:52]
Lighting Designer
How have you approached this experience is so much. When you look at your life and your experience,
- [44:02]
Podcast Host
how do you feel about
- [44:03]
Lighting Designer
the phrase lifelong learning?
- [44:06]
Sarah Broughton
I think it embodies who I am. There's not a day that I'm not learning. And I think it's an approach to life. And it goes back to that curiosity and that humility that allows you to learn and have a growth mindset on a daily basis. And it's not because someone tells you to. It's like, it's in you. It's a burning desire to, like, I want to understand this or I want to see this, or I want to get better. And I think, you know, I once saw an artist speak, and she talked about being mid career, and this was probably, I don't know, 15 years ago. Well, I'm mid career now, and it's a fun place to be, but it's also challenging. And you have to remain relevant. You have to deliver, I think, even on a whole different level, because there is that expectation that you have the experience, but you're also. So that's the given. Going back to the style thing. That's. That's great. You've now what. And I think that, to me, is also a big motivator, you know, now what? Not. Not a reinvention, but like, okay, what's the next thing? And not just to be chasing something, but just how do we keep delighting even more delighting ourselves.
- [45:30]
Lighting Designer
Like, stay curious, obviously.
- [45:32]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah. And just like, God, this is awesome. Wow, that's. I'm psyched. Like, this is good.
- [45:37]
Lighting Designer
So what the hell drives your curiosity? Where does it come from?
- [45:41]
Podcast Host
You're.
- [45:41]
Lighting Designer
You are born this way, raised this way. I'm not sure. You seem to be that way, though. Like, what do you think drives it for you?
- [45:49]
Sarah Broughton
I don't know. I think I've been curious from day one. I just have that curiosity in me. Just stuff. Just like things and, you know, definitely had the lay. I was definitely the lego, you know, art, math, you know, just sports, people. Always very interested. I was very lucky to grow up with parents where we all sat at the same table, went to the funeral, went to the wedding. So we were always kind of thrown in with adults and expected to stand up and shake hands and look people in the eye and be a participant view. Sit at a dinner table. You look to your left, you look to your right, and you contribute to the conversations on both sides. And those are. Those are really, I think, beautiful things that I was lucky to have learned but also to have embraced. And then that comes to a curiosity because you actually want to be there. You actually are interested in what's happening, and you're bringing that out. People.
- [46:53]
Podcast Host
I want to take a moment to recognize a team that understands what every designer already knows. Light isn't a fixture.
- [46:59]
Lighting Designer
It's the soul of a space.
- [47:01]
Podcast Host
For almost a century, Targeti has shaped how people experience architecture using precision optics, performance, and that unmistakable sense of Italian design to elevate every moment a space offers. Because light isn't just seen, it's felt. It drives emotion, guides the eye, and transforms intention into atmosphere. For Targetti, light isn't simply the medium. It's the identity. It's the craft, the legacy and the commitment behind every solution they create. Experience it for yourself. Visit target USA.com now, let's jump back into this conversation.
- [47:43]
Lighting Designer
Do you have curiosity about lighting that I can answer or that you can challenge me on?
- [47:49]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, I do. Thank you for asking. And thank you for the opportunity to be here. It's really been great. Heck, yeah. I mean, yeah. Sorry. So bright. How do we get away from recessed lights? How do we light rooms and maybe not just relying on lamps, like, architecturally, without relying on lights from above?
- [48:14]
Lighting Designer
Can I be the architect? I have questions for you.
- [48:16]
Sarah Broughton
Absolutely.
- [48:20]
Lighting Designer
Why does recessed lighting bother you?
- [48:23]
Sarah Broughton
I am answering as you're okay, recess bother. Like, because it's coming from one direction. Whereas, like, right now, light's coming in this direction. So I feel like it just casts shadows. It doesn't make you feel your best. It just the end result is not beautiful.
- [48:41]
Lighting Designer
Is there anything that bothers you outside of how a human feels under recessed lighting? About recessed lighting?
- [48:51]
Sarah Broughton
It's glaring. Yeah. It just doesn't feel like it's nice quality light.
- [48:57]
Lighting Designer
What's your take on being able to put light right where it needs to be and not have it anywhere else? Because natural contrast actually draws our attention to things.
- [49:08]
Sarah Broughton
I love that. And when I'm reviewing RCPs with our team all the time, I'm always like, starting with what's happening in the room, what are we trying to light? Not looking at a perfect RCP that has everything aligned, I'm like, we don't need a light there, so don't put a light there.
- [49:23]
Lighting Designer
I'm so happy on the inside to hear you as an architect say, when I look at the rcp, the lights go where they need to go, not symmetrically on the way.
- [49:32]
Sarah Broughton
Nobody am I on an island.
- [49:34]
Podcast Host
Like, nobody lays on the floor like this and looks at their lighting layout.
- [49:37]
Sarah Broughton
They look where light needs to be,
- [49:39]
Lighting Designer
put the lights where they need to be. So the harshness of a point source is what I might generalize recessed lighting to.
- [49:49]
Podcast Host
Is the question recess lighting or is
- [49:52]
Lighting Designer
the question getting rid of point source lighting?
- [49:55]
Sarah Broughton
Probably point source lighting, but sometimes you need point Source lighting. So doing only absolutely what you need.
- [50:04]
Podcast Host
How do we get rid of point
- [50:06]
Lighting Designer
source lighting except for where we absolutely need it? We've baked your question in a little bit harder. Right. I think there's a lot of ways to do it. There's the obvious and the not so obvious. Let's start with the obvious. Lamps, right? Lighting, you light vertical surfaces to light the room. Just bring vertical illumination at the space. It doesn't need to necessarily be a lamp. Can you recess a ambient linear source into a vertical as opposed to a horizontal surface? One very specific example. People walked into retail stores in the modern day and the dressing rooms are really nice. The mirror's floating off the wall, lights behind the mirror, it bounces off the wall and wraps around it and you're like, wow, I look amazing. No point source.
- [50:55]
Sarah Broughton
I'll buy it.
- [50:56]
Lighting Designer
Yeah, yeah, I'll buy it. No point source.
- [50:58]
Podcast Host
Right. So you can't light every room in
- [50:59]
Lighting Designer
the house like a dressing room. Right. But as I got, you know, as I look around this specific home, there's details everywhere. Why not start to just integrate lighting in behind them?
- [51:10]
Sarah Broughton
Like sometimes you just want lighting more at the level where you are. So the challenge. Lamps is lamps, like you said, is the easy solution. Right. I'll take my living room. Where. Where I live, I have a small living room. I don't have room for lamps. I actually don't have. You know, there's solutions like you're saying. So integrating that early into as you're designing the walls, for instance, if you're doing a vertical ambient type lighting, I
- [51:39]
Lighting Designer
think the best way. I am not a lighting designer. I would love to be on, but I have not done that my entire life. I've done a little bit. I think it's more integrated architectural lighting that really starts to get rid of, okay, table, couch, cans above it, put a louver over it. It's tough. I think if I can play devil's advocate to why you can't get rid of it. I think about you saying that was then, this is now, and a home is a 10, 20, 30 year space for people. Like, the tough part is those integrated details only work for that configuration or environment or design. And what you need with little kids versus empty nesters versus aging eyes and more lights, all changes.
- [52:33]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [52:35]
Podcast Host
To that extent.
- [52:36]
Lighting Designer
I just get giddy though, because then the answer is we'll put tons of lighting details in the home and in five years turn this level or this layer up and that layer down. I have Heard of people put details in homes and they don't even turn them on. How do you tell somebody to pay you for something you're not going to know exists? I don't know.
- [53:00]
Podcast Host
That's interesting.
- [53:01]
Lighting Designer
I have to think more about that.
- [53:02]
Sarah Broughton
But I think that's, that's your value add. You know what I mean? You can say or you rough in for it and go, this is the, this is here for the future.
- [53:10]
Lighting Designer
What really circles up for me is the reason cans are in this whatever 20 million dollar house. Because they're available, they're a reliable tool and quite frankly they're the easiest thing to adjust.
- [53:23]
Sarah Broughton
Yeah, no, I think your adjustability point is very spot on because you can throughout the day even, which is what's so interesting about some of the lighting technology that is adjusting for you.
- [53:36]
Lighting Designer
That's a good question. I don't, I obviously don't have a good answer. I have lots of thoughts.
- [53:41]
Sarah Broughton
We're designing, we're designing a couple lights right now. Exterior sconces with a Venetian glass company that is dark sky compliant. But it's also beautiful and there's not very, there's not really those options out there. And so we're looking at this as an opportunity of. Because what's beautiful is a dark sky but it's also, you're putting something on a wall. So why can't that be, you know, why can't we have both? So stay tuned.
- [54:11]
Lighting Designer
I would love to see that. What other questions can I answer for you?
- [54:16]
Sarah Broughton
Why are you driven to this? Like why are you doing this meeting with people like me and your fascination with lighting designer when you're not a lighting designer yourself?
- [54:27]
Lighting Designer
Yes, I was the mascot in college and I, you know, was a cheerleader. All true story. But like I just, I just believe that whiting can be so much better everywhere because you can't help but acknowledge that people try to get it right. Yeah, like people realize four lights versus one light in a room is better. But what they don't know is if you're going to put four lights they don't need to look like that one light. They don't need to be as bright. They can be regressed up in the room. I believe unfiltered, authentic real media is an incredible way for people to learn. It's accessible, it's free. Thanks to our sponsors, our partners, you know, they believe in it too. That's why I do it.
- [55:09]
Sarah Broughton
Thank you for doing it.
- [55:10]
Lighting Designer
Yeah, you're welcome.
- [55:11]
Sarah Broughton
It's great.
- [55:11]
Lighting Designer
My, my last question to you And I promise it is. The last one is, when do you feel most alive doing what you do?
- [55:21]
Sarah Broughton
Wow. I certainly wake up on a daily basis pretty stoked about what I'm doing, so feel very fortunate about that. I think I feel most alive when you have those moments where it's just clicking and it's like, oh, my God. Pen to paper. And you know when it's like, this is a. This is good. This is going somewhere. This is a good solution. This is. This has got some legs underneath it and we can do something pretty fantastic here. And so that's. Those are really alive moments. And then I would say just being inspired by others by conversations, by nature, by art, by travel, and allowing yourself those moments to get inspired and to look around and have wonderment, I think
- [56:11]
Lighting Designer
you're in a pretty good place to do that. Aspen's awesome. Congratulations on everything you've done. Thanks for sharing your time, your mind, and hopefully you leave with your own curiosities. I know I. I know I will keep it up. Absolutely.
- [56:28]
Sarah Broughton
Thank you so much.
- [56:29]
Lighting Designer
Crush it.
- [56:29]
Sarah Broughton
Thank you.
- [56:30]
Lighting Designer
Go, Buffs.
- [56:31]
Sarah Broughton
You too. Go, Buffs.
- [56:33]
Lighting Designer
Thanks, Sarah.
- [56:33]
Sarah Broughton
Thank you.