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- [00:01]
Julio
And the only way you could do it is through people. So the formula is very simple and there's clarity in it.
- [00:07]
Host
You know, if you've spent time in lighting, you know Julia Padotta, and you know exactly why we need him, he is without a doubt one of the most inspirational, uplifting designers you'll ever meet.
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Julio
You have to build yourself from within. There's sort of the physical aspect of a lighting designer, you know, and then there's the internal aspect. You know, mental, emotional and heart. Sort of rely on the fundamentals of lighting design and the physiological aspect of human beings and how human beings behave in lighting. In today's world, it's almost very dangerous to be too arrogant and to be ego based. I learned from Philip Stark that every room should have at the very least, one thing that is different. In other words, it breaks any other rule. Inevitably, the mistakes build you as a designer. And I'm looking at the new generation. They inspire me. They taught me so much that I continue to have a lot of faith in the new generation because they have.
- [01:15]
Host
Before we jump in, I want to thank five companies that show up for this community. Mark Diode, led, Kelvix, Lead Flex and Target usa. Because this show exists thanks to their belief in designers and the way they work every single day. Before we get into this episode, I want to talk about one of those companies because it's worth your attention. Here's the truth. Nobody gets into design to manage logistics. You got into this to shape how people experience space. But somewhere between the concept and the installation, the friction creeps in the timelines, the specs, the supply chain, that's the problem the team at Mark is actually solving. Their architectural linear portfolio is built to disappear into your intent. Restrained when the space calls for it, bold when the moment demands it. Always serving the architecture, never competing with it. And behind it, the kind of specification, simplicity and manufacturing scale that lets you stay focused on the work that matters and get back to designing Mark Lighting. Acuitybrands.com you do this because you love
- [02:22]
Interviewer
it, and you love it because you
- [02:24]
Julio
love what it does for the world and people.
- [02:28]
Interviewer
Yeah, like you.
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Julio
You have a very humble
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Host
moral compass
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Interviewer
and North Star to your profession.
- [02:39]
Julio
Believe it or not, I developed it through obviously my family, but also through the industry. The industry has that moral compass. When you listen to our colleagues, whether it's Howard Branston, Chip Israel Thiel, Randy Burkett, they all have the same plan. They want to make the world a better place. And the only way you could do it is through people so the formula is very simple, and there's clarity in it. And we have the tools and the research that the researchers have done for us to understand how light is going to behave, to understand all the properties of light, to understand the psychological and physiological aspect of human beings. So with that goal in mind and all the tools that we have, the journey is beautiful, you know, because you're either, you know, talking to a client that has a lighting problem or that has an idea, a building, a concept that they want to achieve, you know, and they know they need you, you know, because now I think we're at a point in our industry that most clients understand that what lighting design is and that they need a lighting designer. And the beautiful part about it is that when I listen to a client that has a problem or that has an idea and they need lighting to play a role in it, it excites me, you know, Then, you know, you have to listen with empathy, you know, understand what the problem is, you know, and then how you're going to solve it. In some of them, some of these problems are straightforward, but some of them are not. They can challenge you. And you have to really rely on the fundamentals of lighting design and the physiological aspect of human beings and how human beings behave in lighting. And only then by relying on the fundamentals and principles of lighting design, can you find a solution, right, to that problem and then deliver it to the client.
- [05:00]
Interviewer
You know, you get this from your family, too?
- [05:04]
Julio
Yeah, you know, my Italian family is, you know, the genes, the artistic genes, you know, are there, and the empathy, you know, and the Italians are very human, you know, and I think I get that from my family. And so I take that to my clients, you know, because it, you know, we all kind of are on this earth, right? And we all need a little help on. On many fronts, right? You go hire a. You're an accountant to help you with the taxes, you know, I mean, I wouldn't like if my accountant wouldn't treat me well, you know, or I sense that they. They're not doing their job to the best of their ability, you know, So I try to think in those terms. I'm going to treat my clients really well so that they understand that I care for them, that I want to do the best job, that we're going to deliver that solution and that we got their back, you know, this is what you paid us for. We're going to be there all the way to the end. And when they see you being there all the way to the end, they don't even think about it. The next time they're going to hire a lighting consultant and go, let's bring Julia or let's bring, you know, whoever it is in our office that does the same thing, you know, so when you marry, you know, attention to client and empathy, you know, and then you deliver the right solution that they're happy with. It's, it's a great, you know, equation, you know, so how would you say
- [06:42]
Interviewer
that empathy and vulnerability attach themselves together in your life?
- [06:48]
Julio
You know, they live side by side, you know, because in today's world, it's almost very dangerous to be too arrogant and to be ego based, you know, so, you know, arrogance lives in the ego, it does not live in the heart. Okay? And so I always think, especially when I'm designing, our technology has become so complex and architecture has become very sophisticated and more complex as well, that you have to have a level of vulnerability. It's just that you don't know, you don't have all the answers and that you're going to embark with a team, you know, to explore and discover, you know, through curiosity, how you are going to find this solution to this design, you know, And I think if you're not vulnerable, you will struggle a little bit more because you close doors, you know, and when you open up to the fact that, you know, I don't know, I don't have the answer. This is like new. I have over 30 years of experience, but this is not going to get me out of this one, you know, not at least on the first round, you know, so you, you kind of bring the new generation, you know, brainstorm. What can we do, you know, like be open up to a lot of ideas and, you know, look at the person that is perhaps the most technical person in the room and, you know, because everything's tied to technology, right? Once you have, from the philosophical point of view, you can resolve the design, then you have to find the technology to get there, you know, and so for that you have to just be open minded and enjoy the journey, you know, and, and, and that's what it is. It's a journey that, and you look back at it and you go, wow. We started with not knowing and then we did the homework, you know, and look, look where we ended up, you know, so it's just kind of beautiful.
- [09:06]
Interviewer
How long have you been working on, you know, training that mindset versus exercising that mindset versus living that mindset?
- [09:16]
Julio
It goes in tandem. Well, I don't think you ever stop like learning you Know, because, I mean, I have to say I did spend a lot of time at some point, you know, reading about, you know, I'd read the Howard Branston book. I think he, he was a big influence on me. That little blue book he's got, you know, I'd read it all, I highlighted it, you know, and I reread it. And I remember him talking about fear in that book. And, you know, I remember at the time thinking, you know, I had these big projects and, and I was, I had a lot of responsibility and I. And, you know, and I said, well, it. Fear is normal. It's part of, you know, if you're feeling fear, then you're on the right track. You have to sort of jump those hurdles, you know, as a designer and. But I think you, you, you are constantly reading, you know, you have to build yourself from within. That's what I call it. You know, there's sort of the physical aspect of a lighting designer, you know, and then there's the internal aspect, you know, mental. And heart, you know, and the heart is where the courage is. And you are constantly building those, you know, two elements, the mind and the heart, which is the courage, you know, and in every project that you push yourself into doing something that you were afraid of and you do it, then you, Your level of confidence increases. And I don't think I've ever, I haven't stopped doing that. You know, right now I have projects that are challenging me because they're renovation projects, and they're challenging, you know, because they're like, in a big building and they were done 20 years ago and we have to renovate them. And the clients looking for lighting solutions that don't cost that much, you know, and, and, and, but yet the technology needed, you know, is, you know, costly to do it well. And so, you know, you're always being challenged. So you have to have that set of mind that you're constantly learning and building yourself from within.
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Interviewer
Oh, so how have you assessed this mindset of being open and vulnerable, empathetic along the way, yet letting that character keep you going in the right direction?
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Julio
The ultimate goal of delivering a great solution to the client always prevails. Always prevails. And the excitement that there is a technology out there that if I call the lighting rep and they give me a sample and I take it to the site and we test it and it works, then I call the client in to review it, and if they like it, we've succeeded. And I think that is like, the driving force that I Can improve myself as a lighting designer, regardless of my experience. Okay. I have a new challenge. You know, I can philosophically resolve it, use the fundamentals of lighting, okay? They don't change the properties of lighting and the principles, and they don't change. They. They stay the same. What changes is the problem, you know, and, you know, as long as I stick to that and then I go get the tools, okay, to resolve that problem and mock it up. If it's something that is, you know, if you have a. If it's. If. If it's, you know, something, you can mock it up. Delivering that solution to the client is probably the most rewarding aspect of what we do. The rest is that once you, you know, solve that problem is extrapolating it. We're going to get it now on paper, lay it out, fix your schedule. You know, it's a very sort of easy process to, to, to get to the finish line.
- [13:33]
Interviewer
You mentioned Howard earlier. One of Howard's favorite phrases was rules are a substitute for thinking. The rules, in this case maybe are the fundamentals.
- [13:44]
Julio
Yes.
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Interviewer
But beyond it, you have to think.
- [13:48]
Julio
Exactly. You have to think how light is going to behave and if that is going to provide you the solution you're looking for, you know, and there may be it, you know, you also have to think architecture, right? How is architecture going to react to lighting? You know, that's why, you know, there are things that we've done over and over again and they'll never change and they, they work and that's perfect, you know, but sometimes we find ourselves with an architectural condition that will challenge you. And then you have to think in really, in terms of the fundamentals of lighting design, you know, and the properties of light, and then try to see if you can get to an answer, you know, to solve the problem.
- [14:37]
Interviewer
Who makes the rules around what these people really need? And how do you, how do you quantify that and understand it in terms of, you know, the user of that space beyond your design?
- [14:53]
Julio
I mean, the rules are defined in, in a way by the client. Right. They bring certain aspects of it that def. Rules. You know, sometimes it's just the budget, they're the challenges they're facing and so forth. But ultimately, you know, I have a slightly different definition of what human centric lighting is, because I think we're. We're designing lighting for people that have to function in a space, you know, so I always think of it, you know, if I were to walk into the space, how would I turn on the lights? What would the quality of the lighting feel like, what are the quality of the lighting feel during the day? What would I want that lighting to feel during the night? What kind of task are they doing? And so that starts to set the rules. I learned from Philip Stark that every room should have, at the very least, one thing that is different. You know, in other words, it breaks any other rule, you know, that you walk into this room and there's one element for him was interior design, for me is lighting. You know, what is the one element? You know, it could be as small as maybe a task light. Okay. Or it could be as big as a centerpiece in the room or, you know, architectural cove that has a different shape, you know, so I always think of it in those terms we're drawn
- [16:25]
Interviewer
to letting our attention be directed to you. Look at the Riverwalk. It could be argued, you know, it's as much a place for the local people as it is the tourists. And we know Chicago is a rather diverse city in the United States of America. How do you start to understand what your guidance is for a public space like that that is going to have to meet the needs of so many?
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Julio
So I kind of divide my approach in two areas. Primarily, it's actually three. The first one is lighting. Design has to enhance and reinforce the architectural concepts. So in other words, whatever the architect is doing, I have to ask myself, how is lighting going to reinforce that? Okay. The second one is human centric lighting. You know, I'm designing lighting for people, and if they're in an airport, for example, and they're traveling, do they have visual clarity? Do they have lighting that is. Serves as pathway? Is it guiding them? You know, can I introduce a cove if the architect is not doing it, so that I can guide them through TSA and go to the other side of tsa, you know, do they have the adequate illumination levels when they're picking up the luggage, you know, at the baggage claim? You know, it becomes very practical and functional. But it's. It's. You're designing for humans and it. And I travel, so I. I'm also designing it for myself. So. But you got to have the level of empathy that I got to do it for them, you know, and. And that energizes me, you know, then the third aspect is sustainability, you know, because we all got to take care of the earth, right? And, you know, it primarily for me is energy, you know, okay, do we really need 68 watts in that downlight? Can we go down to 32? You know, that kind of mentality, You Know, let's do a calculation to see what is, what can we get away with, you know, do we have the right lighting controls, can we dim the fixtures? You know, so it's, it's anything related to energy primarily in lighting. If, if people are functioning well, okay, and they don't complain, then you achieved the goal, you know, and remember the guidelines. There are some institutions out there that have guidelines that are, you know, 30 years old, you know, so you have to, in the long run use your, your education, you know, and your instinct on how to do these things.
- [19:18]
Interviewer
Are there other questions that you feel like, have to get answered in order for you to, to be satisfied with making sure that it's, it's meeting all three of those?
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Julio
Well, I think, I mean, I think the maintenance, you know, I probably for forgot that fourth dimension, you know, it has to be maintainable, you know, but I always feel that if I answer those four and obviously some will prevail more than others, right? You know, I always walk away satisfied that we have a good solution. You know, I have a tendency to lean towards prioritizing the art of lighting design. So I want it to look beautiful. You know, you saw some of the projects that our fellows that got nominated this year, right? Some of those projects are beautiful, you know, and so that's what people buy, right? So if you go back to Steve Jobs, you know, philosophy, right? People buy beautiful things, you know, and if they're functional, they're going to buy them even more. You know, it's the same thing. You know, the, the architecture has to look beautiful, the finishes have to be look beautiful and then we have to make it functional for the human beings, right? And then follow with, okay, let's make it sustainable and, and let's make sure that, that, that engineers of the building can maintain, you know, the lighting because if they can't, then within a year or two it's going to deteriorate.
- [20:58]
Host
It's definitely important that things last. Here's three manufacturers who care about that. Every designer knows the success of a space depends on what actually shows up on site. And that's where diode LED comes in. Lighting performance isn't an add on. It's the foundation of every successful linear lighting project. Designers need solutions that carry ideas smoothly from specification through installation. And diode LED is built to support that reality. With industry leading inventory, reliable delivery and responsive support, Diode LED keeps pace with real project timelines, not theoretical ones, real solutions for real projects, no matter the scale. Learn more about what's happening in Reno, Nevada@diodeled.com another company I want to tell you about is Kelvix. They don't just move fast, they move with purpose, helping the design world turn ambitious ideas into seamless, buildable realities. The Kelvix team works at the pace of your project, delivering tailored solutions backed by people who know how quality, timing and precision elevate the final outcome. In every spec and every collaboration, Kelvix proves lighting is more than illumination. Lighting protects design intent, sharpens the details that matter, and brings spaces to life with clarity and ease. See what's coming from breakthrough projects to standout projects@kelvix.com or on their social channels. Another company that I respect and want to tell you about is LED Flex. Every designer knows that when light is done right, it disappears into the experience. And that's exactly where LED Flex starts. At ledflex, linear light is designed to
- [22:43]
Julio
do more than illuminate.
- [22:44]
Host
It's engineered to shape how spaces are experienced. Rooted in British manufacturing, LED Flex works alongside lighting designers, interior designers and architects worldwide, supporting projects where detail, precision and execution matter. They're not just a manufacturer, they're a technical partner providing bespoke solutions, rapid prototyping, commissioning and long term support from early concept through final handover. If light is integral to your architecture, choose a partner who stays with a project. Learn more@leadflexgroup.com
- [23:20]
Interviewer
what's your holistic look at human centric lighting? Because I know it's not just tunable light, right?
- [23:26]
Julio
No, it's not. Well, it is. You know, visual comfort is a big one. I think that's at the top of my priority list. You know, I don't like glare and I think if you're sitting anywhere and you have discomfort glare, you're going to feel uncomfortable. And you know, I think the quality of the color, temperature, you know, whether if the space has daylight, right. You may want to consider doing 3500. It just balances better. Okay. If people spend a lot of time at night, you may want to consider 3,000. Okay. And those two are like the top of my list. And then the right amount of light, you know, we've had, you know, I've worked for hospitals and I remember when I was interviewing the nurses in the patient room, they were telling me, I don't have enough light in this area right here. And it was the area where they pull all the medicine and, you know, they have to read and so forth. And I remember when we're all said and done with the, that was The Christ Hospital in Cincinnati. I went back with my light meter, you know, and I, and I faced the same nurse. I said, let's go check your lighting levels at the patient room. And she wanted to check them, you know, and, and, and, and we deliver the 30 foot candles that she was expecting, you know, to, to read. And that, that was just very satisfying. So, you know, and then controllability of the lighting, I mean, some people, right, have different tasks and you know, sometimes if you don't give them that, the power to control the lights, even if it's a switch that will control, you know, a group of coworkers that do the same task, you know, I think we, we owe them that, you know, so that they say, hey, let's dim the lighting because it's getting, you know, dark out there and we don't need that much lighting or we're going to change tasks or whatever it is, you know, And I, I think that's, you know, like for example, the control tower at, you know, O' Hare T5, that's one that, you know, during the day they have a certain amount of light because it, it, a lot of daylight comes in and you think, you know, oh, they have a lot of daylight. They don't need that much artificial lighting. No, they do because they have to counterbalance the power of the daylight, you know, with that of artificial lighting. So but at night they just want it all very dim because they need to look out, you know. And so we provided the dimming systems not only, you know, they can turn the switch on and off, but they have individual dimming at the track fixture, you know, for each individual, you know, control expert there at the control tower, you know, so you and I talked
- [26:18]
Interviewer
once a long time ago
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Host
and there
- [26:22]
Interviewer
was this rough statistic of, you know, 10% of your time's design and 90% of it's getting it through the door. You talk about these principles and making sure that you're, you're keeping the people in mind. It can wear you down.
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Julio
Yeah.
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Interviewer
How do you navigate that?
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Julio
Well, first of all, I'm going to change my statement because clients have gotten more sophisticated, more demanding and architecture has gotten just more sophisticated as well. So I think that now it takes about 20 to 30% to design it and then the 70% to document it and make it happen. And you may also run over that 100% and you're, you know, at 120, 130%, you're just finishing up the job, you know, but, you know, in terms of Navigating it. I mean, you know, you have to, you know, internally. You have to work as a team. You know, you have to work as a team. You have to have clear communication with clients. Make sure you're communicating the design. What you want to get is the client to agree to your design as fast as possible. You know, if you have good visuals. And we got, now we got all the rendering software is all the, you know, revit is fantastic. We got Photoshop, you know, we got, you name it. Once you make that sell pitch and they buy into it, the only thing in the way is the pricing. And so you document it to the extent that it can be priced. And contractors are getting used to pricing very quickly. And by that I mean it used to take a month or two, and depending on how big the project is, I mean, they can turn it in three weeks, three to maybe a month and a half or two if it's a big project. And, and once you make that sell pitch, you know, the process becomes very, you know, it's what we do every day. It's, it's. It's routine area, you know, and the layouts, the fixture schedule, you know, organize the cut sheets, you know, so develop the mountain details and so forth. And, you know, there is no question that when you're managing several projects at the same time, there's a lot of noise, right? A lot of you come into the office and you're, you're going from one meeting for one project to another meeting to another project, and, you know, it can get a little bit hectic, you know, and that's why when I look, you asked me about where I find my solitude, right? In what could potentially be, you know, a very busy, you know, week or month. I usually. I love nature, you know, and I just, I love. Even if I don't get out of the city, it's not unusual for me to jump in the bike, you know, take a bike ride to the lake, you know, lock my bike and dive into the lake, you know, and I just swim and I go under the water. And under the water is probably the most beautiful, you know, aspect of the world, because you don't hear the city and, you know, and you just hear your breathing, you know, and you go in and out and you, you know, and that brings me a lot of peace, you know, I love doing it in, in, in the sea, but when I can't get away to do it in the sea, I do it in the lake, you know. So that's one of my favorite, favorite Things to do. I'm. I'm a water person. You know,
- [30:21]
Host
what.
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Interviewer
What would you say your. Your own nudge to yourself or your clue is that you need. You need a minute under the water.
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Julio
That I need to be under the water? Well, yeah, my. My brain starts to shut down, you know, when. You know, I. I read a lot about Zen, and they have a philosophy that, you know, when you're filled a glass of water, right, and you get to the top, you have to find a way to empty it. You cannot put more water into the glass. Okay? And the analogy is that in order to empty it, you have to go away. Okay. And you have to take time off and you have to exercise and you have to sleep, and. And that's emptying the glass, you know, so once you do that, right, then you can come back into the office and refill the glass. What I find myself. And you and I talked about this. It's like, you know, you. We work so hard sometimes that the glass fills very quickly, and you go to work and you're pushing yourself too much, you know, and it becomes counterproductive at some point, you know, because, yeah, you're present at the office, you know, and you're there, but it takes you longer to do the tasks or you just burned out, you know? And so I. It's not unusual for me when I find myself like that, and I can't take time off because I got too many projects, too many deadlines, lines that I'll take Friday off and. And then I'll try to do a week, and then, you know, I. I take care of myself. You know, I always say, you got to take care of yourself in order to take care of the company design.
- [32:21]
Interviewer
And design in the business of design can become very overwhelming. And I think in the world we live in, there's pressure. There's pressure you can't predict, and there's pressure that you can't get rid of, no matter how hard you try. Is there some way to look at where that's coming from and sit down and say, hey, just a second. I'm human, too, and we're doing this all for human beings. What's the most real way you can get somebody to understand, like, we need a moment here? Yeah.
- [32:57]
Julio
I mean, it's not unusual for me to. You know, clients need to be managed, you know, so they can be smart and demanding, and, yes, they're paying you, but if they're, you know, being unreasonable, they're not giving you enough time to complete something they forgot to Give you drawings, they forgot to give you this, and they come in at the 11th hour. You got to have it, they got to have it. You know, I mean, you got to. It's challenging and you got to be tactful, but you just got to let them know, hey, you know, all the variables didn't line up for us to deliver this today or tomorrow. And in fact, we can't do it this week, and it'll have to go to next week, you know, and if there is a project that we can put aside and bring this one to the front and take care of it, then we'll do it, you know, but we can most likely satisfy both projects. You know, it's, you know, you have to negotiate with the client and everything is negotiable. You know, I love kind of from the psychological point of view, you know, talk to the clients to see how much I can buy from them in terms of time. Because sometimes it's just that there's their own fear, their own issue, you know, and in. When you reassure them that, hey, all I need is a little bit more time, and I'll have this for you by this date, you know, then they calm down, you know, so trust is
- [34:32]
Host
super important, and someone you can trust is Targetty usa. I want to take a moment to recognize a team that understands what you and every designer already knows. Light isn't a fixture. It's the soul of a space. For almost a century, Targeti has shaped how people experience architecture using precision optics, performance, and that unmistakable sense of Italian design to elevate every moment a space offers. Because light isn't just seen, it's felt. It drives emotion, guides the eye, and transforms intention into atmosphere. For Targeti, light isn't simply the medium. It's the identity, it's the craft, the legacy, and the commitment behind every solution they create. Experience it for yourself. Visit targetiusa.com
- [35:19]
Interviewer
what do you do in order to understand how to manage your clients?
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Julio
I try to read through their. What their fears, concerns, you know, what motivates them. You know, do they have a boss? You know, I work for a young lady who's very talented. You know, she has worked for Gensler. You know, she's working now for a developer. And, you know, in terms of design, she's, you know, really good and. But she also has some tough bosses that, you know, are demanding for things to get done in this very prestigious buildings in Chicago. You know, so and so she pushes us, but, you know, it's like right before I came here, she Said Julio, I want a solution for, you know, these elevator lobbies, and sent me a cut sheet, you know, so we can get the electrician to order the fixture so we can mock it up. And I'm like, I don't think she understands that we need to go through our process of how we're going to solve this lighting problem, you know, because it's a challenge, you know, it's not. They're not straightforward answers, you know.
- [36:27]
Interviewer
So how do you know your design has done the job it needs to do?
- [36:32]
Julio
Yeah, when I walk in and I see all the elements, it's a very big picture impression. I see architecture, lighting, people, and I see no scallops, and I see beautifully lit architecture, and I see the floor, even, and I see human beings that look good, they don't go in and out of the light. I mean, my mind puts it together very quickly, you know, because I've done so many projects that I know where the mistakes are, where things were not done right, you know, but when I walk in and I see all of that, you know, in harmony, you know, I go, this is a successful project.
- [37:18]
Interviewer
You know, on the flip side, something might not always turn out the way you wanted it to. I'm sure there's more reasons than I could ever even think about. Where does that take you when that happens?
- [37:30]
Julio
It's like you stabbed me with a knife in the heart, you know, especially if it was something that had we seen this before, we could have, like, fix it, you know, because at that point, it takes a lot more time to fix it than if the contractor would have called me with an RFI request for information and say, hey, we're encounter this challenge. We can't install this this way. So, you know, if they take the liberty of doing it on their own, it more likely will take more time and effort to fix it. And that's painful. You know, if it's our mistake, it hurts me even more because I'm like, gee, why didn't I see this? You know? And I always ask myself, when I make a mistake, you know, I try to go back and say, what? What didn't we see as a team? What didn't I see as a designer? You know, what could I done better to avoid this, you know, and take responsibility? If it was your mistake, it's your mistake. You know, great lesson. They'll never happen again, you know, but now it's like, how do I fix some, you know, lighting is a little bit unpredictable because you may get a shadow that you didn't anticipate and the client's looking at the shadow and say, I don't like the shadow. And you're like, oh, you know, those are kind of like very hard to anticipate. You know, we have certain techniques to avoid them, but sometimes there's something in the architecture that creates a shadow. And now how do you fix it? Yeah. So how do you carry it forward
- [39:15]
Interviewer
into what you do next?
- [39:18]
Julio
Well, you know, us designers have a whole list of mistakes we made in the past or mistakes that we've seen somebody else made, and we try to avoid them. I think the fact that a mistake hurts, you know, inevitably you carry it with you and you know you're never going to make the mistake again, you know, so that's how you carry it. And then you have to make sure you look at the lighting drawings and detect the mistake. You know, a shadow is not as easy to detect when you're seeing lines and dots on that. You know, it's, you know, you may say, oh, this fixture is getting too close to the wall, it's going to splash the wall. That's easy. But, you know, if there's something in the architecture that creates a shadow, that it's an undesirable shadow, you know, then it's much harder to fix, you know, so, yeah, they're, they're, you carry them in your heart, you know, it's again in your mind, you know,
- [40:20]
Interviewer
so knowing what you know now, having been on this journey, in this career, can you look back to an earlier point in your career and share and reflect what you had to do to be able to start to stomach all that?
- [40:40]
Julio
Yeah, I mean, I remember what helped
- [40:44]
Interviewer
you realize it's gonna happen.
- [40:46]
Julio
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I worked really hard early on in my career. I worked really hard to kind of detect those mistakes. You know, it, it sometimes is as easy as going back to your lab and making, doing a mock up, you know, and I, I used to go back a lot and, oh, okay, you know, if you have a lab or you have a, you know, at your disposal, different fixtures, you can go back to your lab and test things, you know, but some, somewhere inevitable because maybe I didn't have the experience and, you know, and, and you made the mistake. And, and then how is this a mistake that a client's going to notice? Or some of them, the client never noticed it and you just walk away say, well, next time I'll do it better. The ones that the client noticed. Okay, how do we fix them? And inevitably the mistakes build you As a designer, we all carry mistakes with us, and it's okay, because that's why we can supervise projects and drawings and say, oh, we don't do this. Because I always try to explain to the team that I'm working with, don't do that, because I made the mistake, you know, and there's some that are so hidden, I mean, that you. You'll never be able to detect them. So. And when you learn those mistakes that are hidden, you know, you know, then. Then you got to make sure you communicate them. And I'll give you a perfect example. You know, I think we were working on an airport, and there was a new Armstrong ceiling that's a little bit thicker than most ceilings. And when we installed it, a downlight that was value engineered by the contractor without our approval. You know, the. The. The fixture ended up a lot higher than it needed to be, you know, and so as a result, it was. The ceiling was cutting off the light beam, and the light beam was not spreading adequately. And so between the lack of intensity and the lack of distribution, you know, the client noticed that the lighting levels were lower, you know, and so, you know, when we got to the bottom of it, it's, you know, it was the. The fixture that, you know, didn't. Was not compatible with this Armstrong ceiling. So it just was a little bit higher, you know, so these things are so hidden, you know, Is there something
- [43:10]
Interviewer
about what you do that you still have yet to learn?
- [43:13]
Julio
I mean, I think refining, continuing to refine everything that I do, you know, everything. I mean, you know, writing. I think, you know, we. I just attended a, you know, a seminar on the sort of the communication of lighting design. You know, I think learning how to communicate lighting design, because it's not a tangible, you know, media, you know. Right. You know, you know, managing people. I think, you know, human beings are complex, you know, so we have to more and more understand where they're coming from and try to see if you can cater to their needs and, you know, becoming more profitable on projects, you know, try to write proposals that, you know, you can see that what you're getting into and that you write into the proposal a fee that the client can buy into, and yet you can become profitable. You know, all those things. There's an art to them, and I'm not sure that you ever conquer them. You just gotta continuously work at them and see what variable and what variation works best for this client. Because our clients are human beings. They're all different. Some work for organizations that have plenty of money, and they don't care. And if you make a mistake, they'll fix it, and nobody's going to pay for it. You know, some are like, okay, well, there's a mistake here. We ran out of money. How can we fix this? Who's going to pay for that? You know, so. And there's everything in between, you know, so, you know, so you have to always kind of be working at it, getting better and better. There's no final moment where you see, you know, oh, I conquer this. But there's definitely moments where you're like, wow, this worked out beautifully, you know, so. So it just goes back and forth,
- [45:19]
Interviewer
you know, so, Julio, thank you. Thank you for sharing your mind, your passion, and your empathetic self.
- [45:28]
Julio
Thank you, man. I always enjoy our conversations.
- [45:32]
Interviewer
It's fun. And you inspire me.
- [45:35]
Julio
You inspire me, man. And I'm looking at the new generation. They inspire me. They've taught me so much that I continue to have a lot of faith in the new generation because they have a lot more tools, you know, and. And they're finding themselves in a. In a profession that, you know, that our predecessors established it very well. We enjoyed it, but they got a more sophisticated, you know, field right now, and. And they can take it, you know, all the way. So.
- [46:05]
Interviewer
Thanks, man. I appreciate it.
- [46:07]
Julio
Thank you.