The World's Largest Women-Owned Lighting Design Firm, Built on Empathy & Cluture - Teal Brogden HLB

Summary

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LytePod — "The World's Largest Women-Owned Lighting Design Firm, Built on Empathy & Culture"

Guest: Teal Brogden | Host: Lytei
Date: May 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Lytei sits down with Teal Brogden, President of HLB Lighting Design, the world’s largest women-owned lighting design firm. The conversation dives deep into Teal’s personal philosophy, leadership style, and the culture that has driven HLB’s sustained growth. The discussion revolves around empathy, authentic leadership, the balance between technical expertise and creativity, and how culture and people form the backbone of great design work.

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Key Themes and Discussion Points

Teal’s Leadership Philosophy: Empathy, Presence, and Panache

• Empathy as Foundation:
  Teal emphasizes that successful design and leadership require deep listening and a genuine presence.

  “The ability to be present and be listening deeply gives me the opportunity to look for ways to take somebody else's talent and bolster that and they return it in spades.” — Teal (04:04)

• Letting Others Grow:
  She credits her upbringing for ingraining both confidence and the value of allowing others to try and fail, essential for growth.
• Panache and Integrity:
  As a teenager, Teal aspired to live a life defined by integrity and “panache,” capturing both her ethical grounding and adventurous spirit.

  “The other word, big word, I chose was panache.” — Teal (06:06)

Building Relationships & Company Culture

• Key Values at HLB:
  • Collaboration over ego: striving to be more than just “fixture pickers”—true collaborators in every project.

    “I had a wonderful architect say to me when he met me, are you a fixture picker or are you a collaborator?” — Teal (14:18 & 00:16)

  • Building trust with clients through vulnerability and shared learning.
• Culture Anchored in People:
  • HLB values the personal growth of its team, open dialogue, and mutual support—even in challenging environments when Teal first joined the San Francisco office.
  • The company’s “troop mentality” empowers all members to bring their authentic selves and unique talents to the table.

The Art and Science of Lighting Design

• Marrying Storytelling with Technical Expertise:
  • Teal stresses the necessity to balance creative vision with technical rigor.

    “It can't just all be storytelling...This is the art and the science of it. You have to have done your technical work.” — Teal (09:24)

• Process and Frameworks:
  • Importance of adapting presentations to each client and moment, deeply listening and using empathy to find resonance.
  • Utilizing frameworks to guide both creative brainstorming and decision-making, ensuring the client’s priorities drive the final design.

    “You do need some framework in which to assess and judge those ideas and then help the client through the process of decision making.” — Teal (13:38)

Saying No to Get to Yes

• Advice from Mentors and Peers:
  • Sometimes, saying no—such as not agreeing to endless consultation-only requests—is in everyone’s best interest for building a sustainable, successful firm.
  • Teal discusses seeking counsel from respected peers when facing difficult client situations and valuing business success alongside design excellence.

Diversity, Equity, and the Evolving Industry

• Women in Lighting:
  • Early in her career, Teal leveraged her engineering background to establish credibility in a male-dominated field.
  • She notes improved gender balance in the profession and more opportunities across the board.

Authentic Experiences and Community Impact

• Projects That Matter:

  • Teal recounts a moving story about a beloved building in Eugene, Oregon, where even the window washers felt honored to maintain the space—illustrating the profound community connections great design can foster.

    “The window washers came in and...they said, we feel so honored to get to wash the windows of this building...that this building was so beloved and...so it's deeply served the community.” — Teal (29:29)

• Human Centricity Over Technology:

  • While technology and AI are valuable tools, authentic human connection and empathy are irreplaceable in creating spaces that resonate emotionally and culturally.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership and Team Culture:

  “What you give out is what you get back.” — Teal (04:19)

• On Raising Raving Fans:

  “In our firm, we talk about raising raving fans...you're going to have clients who are rooting for you and you're going to build that momentum. But you’ve got to do the work.” — Teal (22:12)

• Describing HLB’s Culture in One Word (and More):

  “Light. Light is life. Light is life giving. Light is darkness.” — Teal (25:48)

• On People Being the Biggest Asset:

  “Because we fuel each other. And we fuel...we're designing for people...If we're working towards creating places for people and memories for people, we have to be authentic people to empathize, problem solve, and create.” — Teal (26:19)

• Advice to Her Younger Self:

  “You got this. Go for it.” — Teal (31:36)
  “Overnight success only takes 20 years.” — Lytei (31:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:16: Empathy and listening as foundational qualities
• 04:03 – 06:11: Leadership, upbringing, integrity, and panache
• 08:36: Building confidence and not underselling your value
• 10:53: The art of storytelling in lighting design
• 13:38: Importance of frameworks and process
• 14:55: Approaching new clients and learning from both successes and failures
• 19:39: Saying no to consultations & collaborating with leadership peers
• 21:35: Listening and adapting across cultures
• 22:01: “Raving fans,” gender balance, and industry changes
• 25:48: Defining company culture—“Light is life”
• 26:19: The centrality of people in design
• 29:29: The Eugene, Oregon project and the value of community impact
• 31:36: Advice to her 24-year-old self—no regrets, trust yourself

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Conclusion

Teal Brogden’s career and leadership at HLB Lighting Design exemplify the synergy of empathy, curiosity, technical excellence, and adventurous spirit ("panache"). She advocates for building authentic relationships—within teams and with clients—nurturing a culture where listening, vulnerability, and mutual support are paramount. While AI and technology have their place, Teal champions the belief that memorable, meaningful spaces are crafted through genuine human connection and the collective energy of passionate people.

Transcript

[A]

This is a funny thing that I've never told anybody. So there were two words when I

[B]

was a kid, you know, Teal Brogdon's work and that of the powerhouse lighting design firm hlb. But her secrets, what makes her tick is what we're here to talk about right now.

[A]

If you can listen, if you can be present. And I do feel that the work that we do takes a lot of empathy. I had a wonderful architect say to me when he met me, are you a fixture picker or are you a collaborator? How do you harness that in a way that you deliver it with confidence but not arrogance. The bottom line is you have to do the work. You have to know what you're talking about. You have to do your research. Listening with empathy and talking about emotions. Maybe it's not the right thing in every room.

[B]

If you go back to your 24 year old self, what's the one thing you double down on and what's the one thing you'd tell it?

[A]

I think I would say

[B]

so. Teal HLB is Horton Lees Brockton. I believe you're the B. So I reached out to the H and I said, is there anything you want to tell me about her before I sit down and chat with her? And this is what Barbara had to say. Before we jump in, I want to thank five companies that show up for this community. Mark, Kelvix, Lead, Flex, Diode, LED and Targeted usa because this show exists thanks to their belief in designers and the way they work every single day. I want to talk about one of these companies too because I think it's worth your attention. And that's Mark. Here's the truth. Nobody gets into design to manage logistics. You got on this to shape how people experience space. But somewhere between the concept and the install, the friction creeps in the timelines, the specs, the supply chain, that's the problem the team at Mark is actually solving. Their architectural linear portfolio is built to disappear into your intent, Restrained when the space calls for it, bold when the moment demands it. Always serving the architecture, never competing with it. And behind it, the kind of specification, simplicity and manufacturing scale that lets you stay focused on the work that matters. Get back to designing. Marklighting.acuitybrands.com so teal and this is what Barbara had to say. Teal was leader material from the time I met her. The qualities that attracted to me during our IES committee work with New York was curiosity and commitment with the task we were working on at the time. She actually approached me about Joining the HLB San Francisco office, we were always looking to enhance our team leaders. And Teal had the leadership skills that I admired. Barbara admired you. She was ready to step up and step in. You were ready when you joined the firm in San Francisco, it was a bit of a hostile environment, but you persevered and you found common ground and you carved a path that would eventually lead to an LA market. There was perfect synergy, and she started to prime her clients and gave them superior design services that we prided ourselves on. The rest was history. At one point, when there was still marketing in la, a client asked if we would be willing to do consultations only Thiel was ready to say yes. But Barbara said, if you're going to win and do the best work, you can't just say yes to consultations because you'll be stuck doing them for the rest of your life. In a nutshell, Teal was a leader from the start, and she strengthened that muscle her entire career. So it seems to me you had this natural ability to be a leader. There's tenacity inside of you. There's an incredible amount of empathy and passion as well. What do you think made Teal who Teal is?

[A]

The ability to be present and be listening deeply gives me the opportunity to look for ways to take somebody else's talent and bolster that and they return it in spades. And so I think it's not necessarily intentional, but I feel that what you give out is what you give back, what you get back. And there have been times when I've been a little tapped out and I haven't been able to really give of myself. And I've felt the lack of others being able to give of themselves. And I. I've given myself the permission to say it's just the ebb and flow of as we have a wonderful person. The leader of our HR team talks about seasons of life, I would say the foundation upon which I stand. I'm very fortunate to have had parents who made me feel like I could do whatever I set out to do. They let me fail, but first they let me try. And as a parent, I can see my own tendency to love so deeply that I might want to protect, but that I realized that pulling back a little bit and letting a parent or a colleague or a child or anyone around me take that step and learn their path, knowing that we've got their back, I learned in early childhood, and I'm very fortunate for that. This is a funny thing that I've never told anybody so there were two words that when I was a kid, like a teenager, I wanted to live my life with integrity. But the other word, big word I chose was panache.

[B]

Panache. How do you spell panache?

[A]

P A, N, A, C, H, E. Okay. And panache, which means maybe style, adventure. There was a time, you know, I think sometimes when you're earlier in your career, you feel a little bit like there's no way you can fail, which is amazing. I perhaps did a few things that I thought, well, I'll ask for forgiveness instead of waiting to ask for permission. I really acknowledge that that's who I am. But there are colleagues of mine who are exactly the opposite of that, because their culture taught them that they needed to ask permission. And I feel that. I feel a deep empathy for them and that it's important for me to make the space for that and encourage them to. To take those steps because they're valued. That dimension of curiosity, deep listening with a little sense of adventure, which I actually have to absolutely credit to Barbara and Steven and Jules, but also you mentioned earlier, those who have passed. So Paul Morantz was my earliest mentor. He had a sort of playful sense of a little bit of the rebel and the person who didn't have to be the loudest in the room, but somehow everybody came around to wanting to know what he thought about how to go about something. That sense of mystery and curiosity was a really joyful thing to observe, and it allowed me to see how he would approach projects and clients and want to have fun together with them. And it helped me see that this could be a career where we could all have fun together.

[B]

Do you feel like you ever had to pivot out of that mindset when you. When he had to deal with that part of the business of design, or could you bring that mystery and sense of playfulness all the way through to people saying, yeah, not only do we like you, but we're going to pay you too?

[A]

I think Barbara helped me learn something very important where there's value in what you do and don't undersell it. There were moments when a client would say, you know, I. I think we'll just get a few ideas and we'll move on. And you really had to kick into, this is how I can help you succeed. And so it's that empathy that you mentioned, but in a. In a way that you project confidence. And I learned that from others around me. I mean, I'm. I'm constantly learning from people who I'm surrounded by. Somebody gave me a Very lovely compliment just a couple of days ago and said, I see you're a natural storyteller, and I do think that that's part of what light brings to an environment and that that is something that somehow it's a talent that I grew up with, but how do you harness that in a way that you deliver it with confidence, but not arrogance? Right. And the bottom line is you have to do the work, so you have to know what you're talking about. You have to have. Just like you've done, you have to do your research, and it brings a richness to the conversation. So it can't just all be storytelling. You have to. This is the art and the science of it. You have to have done your technical work. You have to say, we know what we're doing. We're going to get you all the technical stuff that you need, but we're going to help you tell the story and engage the emotion and make that memorable place, and it's going to make you more money.

[B]

I'm curious, doing the work and the technicalities of it, you could tell a story by explaining all of that. Do you think about any specific framework when you like to tell these stories? Or you mentioned earlier how lighting kind of tells the story of a space. I'm curious, if you reflect on it, you know, what do you think guides your instinct through that?

[A]

I found when I'm engaging with a client, design team, colleagues, anybody on the team, that a good way to open up the dialogue is actually to reflect back on what you've heard from them or ask them to share with you their stories or their challenges, or their left turns, right turns, etc. And oftentimes when I'm putting presentations together, I don't like to put too many words in them because often you have to pivot. Maybe the. The landscape architect presented just before you did, and there was something about what they were doing that you hadn't heard before that really resonated with what you were thinking about for the project. And you might have seen the client respond in a certain way. And if you can take those two things and incorporate them in authentically, to saying, I just heard you say this, that brought a new idea to me. Maybe what I'm going to show you doesn't fit it at all, but let's talk about it. So I think it's about being present again, returning to that, that if you can listen, if you can be present. And I do feel that the work that we do takes a lot of empathy because we need to put ourselves in the shoes of this architecture, the person or people or generations who will experience it, the budgets you have to meet, and empathy for needing to allocate resources. I mean, there are lots, lots of different ways that you can listen. Also, I do. At the beginning of my career, I was a little embarrassed to say this, but I do come from an engineering background, so there's also a certain. You know, there might be the arc of the storytelling, but there's also the arc of the, let's solve some problems together. And what kind of data do you need to pull together to really understand even the patterns of what's going on and how you take that data and help. The data helps you tell the story, and it might help you if you have a bias. If you step back and you look at the data, it might direct you in a different way. And that's part of what you heard Kerry and I talking about, is we're sort of constantly looking for feedback, and sometimes we get all up in our head and we think we know what we're doing, and then somebody gives us feedback that we didn't even ask for, and we're like, oh, of course, of course. So remaining open to that, I think is a big part of. Of the arc of the story.

[B]

But then also not circumventing the obvious. Right.

[A]

And having. Being true to a process. I mean, sometimes a blank page is really. There are some people where blank page gives you 100 ideas, but you can't come to the client with 100 ideas. So you do need some framework in which to assess and judge those ideas and then help the client through the process of decision making. And, you know, if these are your priorities, this is where you might go. If those are your priorities. And Carrie likes to talk about a scale that sometimes the sliding scale of adventurous or safe for, you know, so there are ways to talk with clients and give them a framework. So having a process helps you get through moving from the blank page to all those great ideas and what might really fit the client's needs.

[B]

When you're on a project with a client for the first time, do you walk in the room and explain to them how you're going to present to them? Because this, I mean, I feel like it can go one of two ways. You hired me. I'm prepared. Okay, listen. And they have 15 minutes. Or you can say, hey, you hired me. I'm prepared. But I need to ask you two questions before I start.

[A]

Yeah, we often will start with, we want to hear from you. That's often where we start. There are times where if it's a brand new client that hasn't worked with us, most of the time they know enough about us to decide they want to work with us. But maybe, maybe there were circumstances that put us in front of them and they didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. That's not so common. But if that's the case, we might spend a little bit of time saying, here are some projects we've done that we've learned from. I mean, just today we presented to a client and we said, we going to take you through a couple of projects where there are a couple of things that didn't go well, but we're going to. We'd like to talk to you about it and talk to you about what we learned from it and how we want to make sure that we remain connected with you so that we don't miss getting a detail right and then have an oops moment in the field. So I think coming in with some of that, let's meet each other halfway. Let's create a we work, we succeed better working together. Instead of, you do it my way, I do it yours. There was a client recently that I was introduced to that wanted to know, you know, what's our philosophy? And we talked about wanting to hear about the emotions and support the architecture, et cetera. I had a wonderful architect say to me when he met me, are you a fixture picker or are you a collaborator? And honestly, there are occasionally clients who just want us to be fixture pickers and we have to be good at that, too. We also can take those clients and as Carrie mentioned, over the arc of the relationship, grow into a. I love that you know, that rendering you made. We can bring it to life. Did you think about maybe we could do this too? Or instead, and if you can earn the trust, maybe eventually you can move that relationship from fixture picker to co conspirator and collaborator.

[B]

Fixture picker, that's an interesting one, isn't it? What are you. I'll tell you what, here's three manufacturers who don't want you to just be a fixture picker. Kelvix doesn't move fast, they move with purpose, helping the design world turn ambitious ideas into seamless, buildable realities. The Kelvix team works at the pace of your project, delivering tailored solutions backed by people who know how quality, timing and precision elevate the final outcome. In every spec and every collaboration, Kelvix proves lighting is more than illumination. Lighting protects Design intent sharpens the details that matter and and bring spaces to life with clarity and ease. See what's coming next. From breakthrough products to standout [e-mail] or in their social channels. And another manufacturer that I respect and enjoy working with is Lead Flex. Where linear light is designed to do more than illuminate. It's engineered to shape how spaces are experienced. Rooted in British manufacturing, LED Flex works alongside lighting designers, interior designers and architects worldwide, supporting projects where detailed precision and execution matter. They're not just a manufacturer, they're a technical partner providing bespoke solutions, rapid prototyping, commissioning and long term support from early concept through final handover. If light is integral to your architecture, choose a partner who stays with the project. Learn [e-mail] and stick with me because I want to make sure we both know and can agree. Every designer knows the success of a space depends on what actually shows up on site. And that's where Diode LED comes in. Lighting performance isn't an add on. It's the foundation of every successful linear lighting project. Designers need solutions that carry ideas smoothly from specification through installation. And Diode LED is built to support that reality. With industry leading inventory, reliable delivery and responsive support, Diode LED keeps pace with real project timelines, not theoretical ones, real solutions for real projects, no matter the scale. Learn more about what's happening in Reno, Nevada at Diode led.com when you look at translating that passion and creativity into the reality of the world that you've been a part of for what might feel like your entire life at this point, there's this notion of saying no to get a yes. I'm curious what you remember about it and how you feel like that shaped you too.

[A]

I would say this is where we lean into each other as leaders. And you know, all of us have people we really respect in the industry. And so if we're experiencing something, we might reach out to our partners or we might reach out to somebody else we know in the industry and say, hey, I'm having this experience. How can I turn it around? Because yes, of course we need to make it a success. I've become less shy about saying we're all here together wanting to make the best experience, the best building, the best lighting that anybody has ever experienced in the world. But we also need to succeed as a business so that we can do the next even better project. And so let's all get there together with business success as well as design excellence off the charts. And I used to Need a pep talk from Steven to do that. And he was really great at that pep talk. And he would sort of sometimes when we felt beaten down, whether clients are. If things are going south repeatedly, what do we do to take care of it? And are we brave enough to go to the senior leadership of that developer or client or manufacturer that we've partnered with for years that somehow things aren't working? Are we brave enough to have a conversation and say, what's going on? How can I help you? How can we fix this?

[B]

This takes some real tenacity and courage and vulnerability to say all of that. You keep talking about this listening thing first. Is it easy across cultures to say, I'm going to listen first, or is that complicated too?

[A]

There are cultures that expect a sort of swagger. So we do need to swagger sometimes. Panache. I can't believe I told you that

[B]

you get what you give. Do you agree?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

In professional relationships, but also, like, over the course of a career, are you getting back what you've given in your career yet?

[A]

Absolutely. Are you kidding? I am surrounded by such amazing people who are going to do such amazing things that might be two years out of school or 20 years out of school that are doing amazing things. And I'm like, pinch me, how did I get here? How do I deserve this? And I think, you know, there are a lot of people who have imposter syndrome. I'm. I'm no stranger to that. So there are times when I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay. But not a lot of times. Right. So I think, yeah, I'm getting it back in spades. And I. I had a client early on who I had, did. I did really fun, wonderful work with, who said, you put in, you know, you put in your time, now you build those relationships. And we talk about, in our firm, raise raving fans. You know, he said, you're going to have clients who are rooting for you and you're going to build that momentum. But again, you've got to do the work. So early in my career, you talked about people might have perceptions. And the good news is now, I think the lighting design industry, there are probably some statistics out there, but it's probably 50, 50 men and women. I think we all have good opportunity. There might still be some clients who want a swaggering man there, but for every. For every client who's looking for that, there's also a client looking for. Yeah, that's so, you know, I think we've grown to a place I also stepped into the industry when it was kind of small and it was just exploding. So I feel like I rode the wave a bit, you know, that there was this building wave that. That I was in the right place at the right time, and I came upon the right people. But those opportunities were created by working really hard and daring to go to engineering school and working hard there and making friends and having fun. And that engineering gave me the opportunity, when I was the only woman in the room, to talk really technical. If I felt like I had to show them that I had the chops to do the work, because the listening with empathy and talking about emotions, maybe it's not the right thing in every room, I could pull that card. But now, definitely, I'm getting it back in spades.

[B]

You've done so much.

[A]

I still have new team members, new clients. I think as lighting designers, we get to work on so many projects of so many kinds. The troop mentality of getting a project done and succeeding and hitting those goals is really empowering. And knowing that I've got a great team who really values and appreciates each other, that also gets me out of the bed. So I think you know the big picture, but also it's the. The little things, you know, the little cartoon that somebody puts on my desk in the morning, that's a discovery. The fact that I did something really dumb and funny, and I can't wait to get back to the team and laugh all together at something that I did, something that they did, something they saw that inspired them.

[B]

If you could pick one word that describes culture, this company, this life that you live. What is it?

[A]

Hmm. Boy, I'm not sure we could describe anything in one word. Light. Light is life. Light is life giving. Light is darkness

[B]

unrelated and related to. I think all of this is people. Why are people the biggest asset of any design firm?

[A]

Because we fuel each other. And we fuel. I mean, we're designing for people. I don't know. We're facing the AI bots of the world, right? Maybe it'll take some tasks and make them simpler. I hope so. The calculator did something that made our lives simpler and easier. Computers do things that allow us to soar to new heights. But we're all here for the people. And if we're working towards creating places for people and memories for people, we have to be authentic people to empathize, problem solve, and create.

[B]

Collecting data points on people's hard. Collecting data points on people's habits is not hard. It's actually very easy. Till how many buildings have you walked out of in your life. And there's a button that says, did you enjoy your experience in this building today? And there's a red, a green, and a yellow button. It's not. You go home.

[A]

Only in airports.

[B]

Yeah. Bathrooms and airports. Yeah, I hit the green button most of the time. Then I wash my hands again. Yeah, no, it's. It's a really good point. We have. We intrinsically know what we want. Like, you could have all the data in the world, but, I mean, it's the famous line, somebody's trying to sell you something. You say, well, what would you do if it was your fill in the blank? Office, house, home, project, car? They said, well, I'd probably do that. I say, okay, sounds good. I'll take it. And it's. It's so crazy how you can. Like, you can. You can pivot somebody in a second with a question like that. Well, if it's yours, what would you do? I have one question. It's for you, the listener, actually. Do you know who targeted USA is? I want to take a moment to recognize a team that understands what every designer already knows. Light isn't a fixture. It's the soul of a space. For almost a century, Targeti has shaped how people experience architecture using precision optics, performance, and that unmistakable sense of Italian design to elevate every moment a space offers. Because light isn't just seen, it's felt. It drives emotion, guides the eye, and transforms intention into atmosphere. For Taretti, light isn't simply the medium. It's the identity. It's the craft, the legacy, and the commitment behind every solution they create. Experience it for yourself. Visit tarettiusa.com

[A]

so I want to say being moved to tears so made me remember something that I experienced that I could get teary about, which is we were working on the renovation of a beautiful building in Eugene, Oregon, that's much beloved by the community. Hardy Holzman Pfeiffer was the architect, was kind of. It's now considered a bit of a period piece, but we were in the lobby taking some measurements and doing some things, and the window washers came in, and we said, oh, I'm sorry, we're in your way. And we got to talking, and they said, we feel so honored to get to wash the windows of this building. And, you know, just to think that. And it was very sincere that this building was so beloved and it might not be the piece of architecture that survives and is the, you know, might be the best building built in that region over the last hundred years. But it certainly is one of the most loved. And so it's deeply served the community. They have meetings there, they have recitals there, they have, I mean, they do all kinds of things. And just to hear somebody speak so passionately about architecture and then you feel so honored to get to work on that building and so on and so forth. And so I think, you know, it's those human connections that bring us to work every day that encompass not what AI is going to do for us. It might help us study a whole bunch of patterns and then find new ways to put things together, but it's not really going to tell us what's going to create that emotional resonance that's really going to mean something deeply for our community for many years. So that's what's exciting about. There's a new tool out there. How do we harness it?

[B]

If you go back to your 24 year old self, what's the one thing you double down on and what's the one thing you'd tell it or encourage it to do differently?

[A]

At the moment, it's hard to think that I have any regrets, which is, I feel very fortunate. I think I would say you got this. Go for it.

[B]

Trust yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You could spend your whole life trying to figure out what to do or you can go get it. You talked a lot about hard work. Someone you know very well told me overnight success only takes 20 years. Teal, thank you. I appreciate it.

[A]

Absolutely. What a joy.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Really appreciate it.

[B]

Do it again.