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- [00:04]
Edith
I want people to think about sports venues as hospitality. I don't want it to be, oh, this is a stadium. I feel like you want to walk in and feel like you're walking into a hotel. As interior designers, we're thinking about it differently, really. It's like blurring the lines is really what I try to create more and more. To me, I love, like, when it's the most unexpected, like, built into the millwork and the bar, really showcasing those feature moments that you want in the space. In a space like up the player's locker room, where lighting is so important and so critical because it's about the energy you create in it. Or it could be like the players tunnel in a specific club where the players run out. It's really about the lighting, what the client approves in the rendering. They're expecting that to look exactly the same. At the end of the day,
- [00:54]
Sam
how can you, or how do you wish you could, like, sell lighting as a luxury? Even though it's not a statement piece?
- [01:00]
Edith
If you're going to see a space flat, you know, again, you can have the most expensive things in that space, but if it's not properly lit, then it's almost like, then what's the point of putting it in there? You're going to miss it. That's how we start with the lighting designers.
- [01:30]
Sam
Foreign. Hey, it's Sam. And I wanted to share something special with you. We're sitting on location at Snapdragon Stadium with one of the creative visionaries behind it. Do me a Favor, go to YouTube, find this podcast and watch it. Watch it on the big screen. Like 65 inch big screen. Okay? It's up to you. Let me know what you think.
- [02:03]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
Before we jump in. I want to thank five companies that
- [02:06]
Sam
show up for this community.
- [02:07]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
Eureka, Diode, led, Kelvix, ledflex and Targettti usa. Because this show exists thanks to their belief in designers and the way they
- [02:17]
Sam
work every single day, I want to
- [02:19]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
share something with you before we dive in. It matters to me, and I think it matters to you too. It's not something people imagine. They just experience it. That moment when a space you designed actually exists in the world and people walk into it feeling something without knowing why. That's not luck. That's your design, your instinct, your eye, the obsession with getting it right. Eureka luminaires are crafted for this mindset. And they aren't just intentionally designed. They're driven by a genuine passion, a push to innovate, and the performance to back it up. Their statement Pieces anchor a space and make people stop. So when your project needs that moment, that thing people feel without knowing why, Eureka is probably a good place to start. Check out eurekalighting.com it's the kind of rabbit hole you'll be glad you fell into. Pretty cool, huh? All right, let's dive into this conversation.
- [03:12]
Sam
Edith, welcome to the podcast. You told me earlier today you haven't been here in two years. When you think about what a client wants, I know what your expertise and profession is, but where do you start? You know, where's. Where's your mind in that whole world of design and interiors and architecture?
- [03:33]
Edith
I like to bring it back to, you know, to the culture of the city because that's, you know, the audience that's coming to these venues, whether you're, you know, from here locally or you're, you know, visiting from a different city, like, you want to feel like you're getting a taste of. Of San Diego. So to me, that's really where I usually take inspiration from. And obviously, then we layer in, you know, everything that the client, you know, obviously wants to bring into this venue, as well as what the teams want and the brands. I feel like more and more now, sports venues want to bring that hospitality touch, right? And again, from those early visioning sessions, this was one of the priorities that the client wanted. Right now we're sitting in the founders lounge, which really is where most of the ownership, you know, gets to enjoy their suites, are right next to this space. So they really wanted to bring something that felt like you're in a hotel, you know, resort that had that coastal vibes. I want people to think about sports venues as hospitality. I don't want it to be, oh, this is a stadium. I feel like you want to walk in and feel like you're walking into a hotel. So it really. It's like blurring the lines is really what I try to create more and more.
- [04:52]
Sam
Is this happening, I mean, around the country, around the world?
- [04:55]
Edith
It's happening all around the world. I feel like, within the U.S. you know, I feel like we're starting to see that more and more. And I think, too, you know, abroad, too, you're starting to see that a lot as well.
- [05:07]
Sam
Today I'm. I'm excited to talk to you more about just your vision, your mindset, your process, and your own creativity and creating spaces like this, around the country in venues like this. But we're obviously here, and this is an example of it. So for a moment, I'm just curious to reflect with you you know, what was, what was the thing that happened here that you hadn't got to do before? And you nailed it here.
- [05:34]
Edith
You know, one of my favorite components of this stadium that I feel like had never been done before. Um, and you know, I think the team at Gensler that I was part of, like we came up with this, which was the piers. So it was really an area here that I'm sure people can look up once they type in snapdragon the piers. But really bringing in, you know, what that peer experience might be in the beach, but in a stadium. So really creating that really cool, authentic outdoor experience that, you know, feel so authentically San Diego, but within a sports venues has never really been done before. And it is such a cool experience because you get great weather most of the year, so why not be outside? You'll notice that throughout that most of the spaces here are indoor, outdoor. So we have all of these stores that will open up. So really giving you that natural light and you know, you're getting that breeze that you want to feel.
- [06:33]
Sam
You know, I'm sitting here looking out there and now I'm starting to notice all these, these coastal pier like boardwalk elements. Right. The pedestrian plaza has the cues. I take there's 14 foot pedestrian grade architectural light poles as opposed to just like floodlights lighting the whole place up. Right. So you're starting to bring these elements in. When I look inside, I mean, I've said it seven times already, we feel like we're in a hotel room, but there's something just beautiful and tremendous that's going on over there. When we look at your scope and this, this concept of creating this visual system, it is both this, the interior and the exterior. How do you either try to bring those together or keep them separate?
- [07:19]
Edith
Yeah, so I mean, I think really the key to creating a great space at the end is collaborating really closely together early on because I think, you know, blurring the line of what's architecture and interiors. You know, I feel like it always ends up meeting inside. For our firm, we prefer to kind of be on the project throughout because it's extra important to work with the general contractor toward the end because things always come up as well.
- [07:50]
Sam
Everybody has a place, you know, they want to get it to before they bring somebody else in on the idea. Do you ever get the opportunity in space planning to envision some kind of statement you want to make and say, I need a bigger space or a different kind of space?
- [08:07]
Edith
You know, I would say when we come in, there are some abilities, but the general kind of spaces have been laid out in terms of how much square footage the client is wanting. But I do think that sometimes we. You know, it's really educating your client. So there has been times, especially in club spaces, where I think they underestimated how much square footage is needed to occupy a certain amount of people. Because as interior designers, we're thinking about it differently, about the different seating layouts and how much space you need for walkways and the different types of grouping. So things start to grow and grow more. And so a lot of times that happens. And then we do get that ability to grow a space more than they imagine, but then they have to compromise and, you know, get a smaller storage room or whatever it might be.
- [09:01]
Sam
Smaller storage room, bigger bar.
- [09:05]
Edith
Yep.
- [09:06]
Sam
You know a thing or two about lighting. I know that we're sitting in a space that is beautifully lit, and I know you weren't the only person involved with it. But before we talk about all those other people that help shape lighting for you, you know, where. Where does lighting start in that creative process and programming it and figuring out what elements need to exist to. To fulfill a vision?
- [09:31]
Edith
Yeah, I mean, I think, honestly, it happens as early as when we're starting to visualize the space. So, you know, I think it's so important to have, you know, a good education in terms of lighting, have good relationships with your lighting consultant early on. Because once we start creating these beautiful renderings that we start to sell to the client to approve, you know, it's already starting to showcase what the lighting is, and it's really creating those, you know, different light levels, the layers, and lighting really is what creates the mood and, you know, starts to show the texture, that of the different, you know, finishes that we selected. So I think it's as early as when you're visualizing it for the rendering, and then obviously, you know, later on with the detailing. Because to me, I. I love, like, when it's the most unexpected, like, built into the millwork and the bar, really showcasing those feature moments that you want in the space.
- [10:32]
Sam
You. You mentioned kind of these two schools, Right. You have decorative lighting, the pretty things, the things that glow, and then you have the architectural or the integrated elements or the details in the millwork. Right. Architectural lighting and decorative lighting. Where's your mind go when you have to think about lighting during the day versus the evening versus the night?
- [10:55]
Edith
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great point, because I think it's something that we definitely have to think about early on and really Having the different light levels in the space, but also, too, one other factor on top of what you mentioned that people might not know in a sports venue, especially suites and club spaces, is when there's a game or a concert, they want to create that excitement. They set certain scenes in order to create that energy that you want the fans to have, whether, like I mentioned, for whatever type of venue might be happening that particular day. So, you know, I think that there's so much that goes involved to that.
- [11:39]
Sam
You drew this, you rendered this. How do you say, I want that? You know, what's going through your mind? Do you say, I want it to glow? I want that to sparkle. We need to, you know, know, have this. Be programmatically capable of being bright or dim. I'm. I'm curious how much you get prompted to figure all that stuff out versus how much you kind of dialogue internally and then show up and present as a. As a brief to your hopeful lighting consultant.
- [12:13]
Edith
Yeah, I mean, I think depending on the space, like, I think this is a good example of, like, because this space has a lot of natural light, and we wanted it to have that coastal feel, you know, you're already going to get a lot of that natural daylight. So, you know, I think talking with the lighting consultant early on about, you know, we want to maintain that same feel of having, you know, this kind of natural element of lighting throughout the space that doesn't feel forced but feels soft, you know, but there could be an opposite space. Sometimes we have what you call like a tunnel club, where you see the players running out, and that's usually down in the basement level where there's no natural light. So then that becomes more of this moodier vibe. And so then it's really describing the lighting in a sense of, like, we want to have, you know, lighting that still sets the tone, where you can dim it and you can have, you know, like you mentioned, maybe there is some sparkle. There's usually a focal point, the bar. Right. For example, there's beautiful chandeliers that we always want to showcase. Because I do think having custom lighting is super important in these hospitality spaces. I do the same with furniture. I don't want every stadium to look the same. And if you buy things that are off the shelf 100%, it will start to feel like something you've seen in the past. So how do you make it uniquely something of its own? And I think that's bringing in that customization factor.
- [13:51]
Sam
All right, million dollar question this far along, what goes first for you that cool Custom visually eye captivating lighting piece or the lighting as an element in design.
- [14:09]
Edith
I'm definitely picking out the visual factors. So definitely, you know, the, the, the wow factors, whether it's the, the chandeliers or, you know, some beautiful wall sconces that are going to make it impactful. And then I know that we're going to have all the different light levels to enhance, you know, all of those fixtures and, and the space itself. So for me it really comes more, more about making it beautiful. And then if we know that we can, you know, enhance it with the lighting.
- [14:39]
Sam
So this word beauty, it's a strong word. Right. You can have objects in the space that glow, that look cool, that provide some form of light. It's often the case that isn't the primary light in the space. Right. How do you respond to the need to quote, you know, meet the needs of the occupant and supplement it with other lighting?
- [15:06]
Edith
I mean, I think that's when, you know, we have these coordination calls and that's when collaborating with the lighting consultant and having their expertise coming to the table really happens. So really, you know, depending, it's really relying on them, but obviously educating ourselves every single time in a project because there's always, you know, something new that you learn or a lesson that you learned from a previous project that you don't want to repeat.
- [15:35]
Sam
Let's, let's go. We're going to dive into lighting consultant, your relationship with them, how it comes to be where the give and take, what the scope is like. But before we go there, let's, let's peel back the onion on your career as an interior specialist, an interior designer. Was there ever a moment where you're like, oh, like I need to learn more about lighting?
- [16:01]
Edith
Definitely. I think to be completely honest and transparent with you, I think it's really just at the level that it was in my career. Right. I think when you're kind of starting out as a junior intermediate designer, you might not be as involved in a lot of those coordination calls. So, you know, that really are those conversations that, you know, educate you. So I think the more you start to grow, you know, in a leadership role, the more you start to, you know, attend those calls and then eventually be the one managing those calls. So, you know, I think early in my career, probably like the first half, you know, I felt like I really had to listen in, in those small opportunities that I got to listen in.
- [16:50]
Sam
Was there ever a moment beyond listening where you got to, you got to be in charge of it? And it didn't quite turn out the way you wanted it to.
- [16:59]
Edith
You know, I, I don't want to say that there was, it wasn't like how I imagined it, but I think that there's been challenges along the way when it comes to budget. Right. And so that's always, to me, the, the, the hardest part because it kind of comes in closer to the construction part. And then you're kind of having to, you know, backtrack and see, okay, well, we still need to maintain certain light levels and keep it beautiful, but, you know, you need it to be half the cost. So, you know, I think that's when we really rely again on the lighting consultant and their sources and, and their knowledge on that.
- [17:38]
Sam
I think the lighting consultants will be pretty happy to hear all of that right now. So let's talk about them a little bit. What's your litmus test for? This person has what it takes to do what I want them to do.
- [17:49]
Edith
Their past experience or portfolio is super crucial. You know, I don't necessarily think that it has to come from, oh, do they do sports venues? Obviously, I think on the exterior side that's super critical. But on the interior side, I think if they have some hospitality experience, to me that's sometimes even more important because they really understand, you know, what the difference is between say, just like a typical commercial space versus a hospitality space. I think they're completely different. I think now in my career I really rely on, you know, really past experiences that were successful and really maintaining those relationships.
- [18:32]
Sam
Beyond experience, is there anything from a technical standpoint or a collaboration standpoint, or maybe even just a capability standpoint that you look for?
- [18:42]
Edith
Understanding the structure of their team, how they collaborate and communicate within a project is important and also to what are the tools that they're using. Obviously we do everything in Revit now, so them having that capability is huge. That's a must. Like, if you don't, then it's hard in these large scale projects to work with anybody.
- [19:07]
Sam
Totally loaded. But what's the one thing you wish Revit could do for lighting that it can't right now?
- [19:13]
Edith
That's a good question. With lighting specifically in Revit, I think it's really, when it comes to how you're seeing it in 3D, I don't think that it has the full capabilities to see the actual kind of like light levels that you would want. So I think you rely on different softwares for that. What the client approves in the rendering, they're expecting that to look exactly the same at the end of the day, more and more, that's what's become.
- [19:41]
Sam
So let's break down that rendering. Right. What are the elements that go into that rendering for you? Obviously, lighting is one of them, but what else goes into it that you specifically think about before you present it to a client?
- [19:52]
Edith
Budget is number one. I know it's like, you know, like such a overall thing, but really starts to layer down to everything, right. To all the selections that you're making. So I think, you know, we don't want to present, you know, like, yes, you're seeing beautiful tile here, but I know I can present it in the rendering and find something that is going to be within a certain price range. Same with the furnishings, with the lighting, you know, with the amount of seating product that we might have. The size of the bar. Right. That linear square feet. I know it might cost a certain amount of, you know, per linear foot. So it really breaks down to every little thing. But I think that's just like years of experience that, you know, you start to break it down.
- [20:40]
Sam
Who gives you the budget and how do you like to break it up?
- [20:43]
Edith
It really depends on the project. I think every.
- [20:47]
Sam
Let's pick on this one.
- [20:50]
Edith
Okay, let me remember. I think for this particular project, it was actually probably one of the most challenging projects I've ever worked on because it was my first collegiate project, you know, maybe not as high as what the professional sports might be. And I know they wanted the expectations to be as of what they've seen for other, you know, of those professional sports stadiums. You know, we definitely get like an overall number for what the interior's budget will be. And that usually comes from the general contractor that they hire. They do studies from other similar built stadiums and give us a ballpark number of this is what the range of the budget might be, and they. They break it down. So for interiors, we have a certain number, and then it's really our responsibility to kind of break that down into the different tiers of spaces that we have.
- [21:47]
Sam
So you break it into tiers of spaces. Let's go a level deeper into a space like this. Right. A private amenity, but a common space for a group of people. What's in here? Furniture. Flooring, ceiling lighting, speakers, bar handles, hooks. There's all kinds of stuff in here, Right. How do you. How do you even start chop that number up?
- [22:13]
Edith
I think we kind of create buckets. Right. So furniture kind of has its own bucket of number. Lighting kind of has its own bucket. And I think for interiors, really Then we're kind of left with the finishes and the millwork. So then we're kind of focused on that and then the rest is really its own thing.
- [22:33]
Sam
Can you give me a rough percentage of that interior's number? How much of it goes towards, let's say, furniture versus finishes versus lighting?
- [22:43]
Edith
I can give you an example maybe of this space that we're in because again, it's gonna vary based on the tiers of spaces. Right. I think in this particular stadium, this is a higher tier space. You're gonna have your, your finishes and the millwork is going to take up, you know, I would say 40%. Right. And your, your furnishings, I mean, that does take up a good amount of it. But I feel like again, working with custom manufacturers and knowing to kind of group things together so you're not using multiple sources. A lot of times that saves costs. So you might save a little bit of costs here and then you might move it to a different bucket. So you're really kind of playing with money at that point. But I think furnishing somewhere here might be, say, 15, 20%. Right. Lighting is going to be similar, right. Depending how many decorative fixtures you have in a space like this. And then there's the different other layers of AV and you know, you know, miscellaneous things that might come into action. Typically, I would say there's like three tiers. So you're going to have like your first tier that are more your general public user. Right. So that's gonna be like the concourses and the different markets and you know, like you mentioned the, their restrooms. They're dedicated restrooms. And then you're gonna have your second tier, which, you know, there's different clubs actually. If you look straight ahead, you see like, there's a space that's just like directly in front of us that has what are like kind of glass garage doors. That's another club space, but that's tier two, which, you know, it's a bit more casual. It's, it's meant to feel more like you're going to like a beer hall. So you're going to see more concrete flooring. You're not going to see tile on the floor. You're going to have, you know, exposed. You know, like you're not going to have architectural ceilings, just going to be what's exposed with some cool, you know, lighting. And then this is top, the top tier where it's going to be more premium. And obviously here we have a more finished look.
- [24:57]
Sam
So this top tier has like decorative and Integrated architectural lighting, tier 2. Do you. Do you get rid of one of those? Do you keep them both and you just.
- [25:05]
Edith
Yeah, it depends. But I think, you know, a lot of times you'll see where either the whole space has exposed ceilings or maybe a portion of it. But, yeah, I think there's usually a portion of it that's exposed.
- [25:17]
Sam
Then on that tier one, how many layers of lighting are you looking for?
- [25:22]
Edith
I think it's usually architectural lighting, but kind of more of your, you know, basic lighting. But again, it depends on the venue because I like, one of the projects I'm working on, the concourses, you know, have another. Like, they have a decorative lighting component on top of it, but just depends on the budget.
- [25:43]
Sam
So everything depends on budget. The budget breaks down. Are the projects you work on typically staffed with a lighting designer?
- [25:50]
Edith
Yes.
- [25:51]
Sam
Okay. Do you get to pick them?
- [25:54]
Edith
Usually it is the architect that selects them. And I think, you know, usually they do come and ask if we have, you know, any recommendations with people that we've worked with on the past, because obviously they were all going to be collaborating on this. So we do have a say. But ultimately, you know, they. The architect comes up with the list and provides it to the owner's rep, and then they make a decision.
- [26:20]
Sam
The lighting consultant gets picked on a project. Sorry, we went down a whole rabbit hole of budgets and tiers of spaces. But now that we've got all that established, it kind of lays the groundwork for obviously, how you're going to communicate with a lighting consultant. What's first? Do you want to give them a brief on what you expect, or do you want their creative ideas?
- [26:39]
Edith
I think we want them to feel like they're, you know, part of the process. What we do normally, before we even go ahead and do a rendering, is we, you know, obviously come up with, like, concept boards that get presented to the client to ultimately sell them and get them to approve concept. And so that's how we start with the lighting designer. So they're really engaged early on and to help us give us those ideas of how we can make this vision come to life.
- [27:08]
Sam
So, like, in this space, short of the details, like how. How does something like this show up with that integrated lighting into it? Do you propose it and they light it, or is it a flat ceiling and they say, pop it? We want to put light in it.
- [27:21]
Edith
Usually we shape the space. You know, we'll kind of provide, I would say, maybe early sketches or early 3D models, but not fully rendered, you know, kind of in progress. Renderings or sketches to then, you know, start to, you know, get. Get their ideas of, like, okay, if we go in this route, how would you light this? You know, what's the most successful way of doing it? Or is there a better, you know, way of. Of going about it?
- [27:50]
Sam
The potential pros and cons of what you're putting in that rendering and the downstream effects of cost.
- [27:59]
Edith
There's a certain amount of flexibility in terms of the lighting that you're showing. I guess more on the architectural, because you're kind of only getting, you know, one angle of the space, not like you're seeing the entire space sometimes, especially when it's a giant club. Right. So I think we really rely on them because sometimes they'll say, oh, you know, that tile can't be glossy, right. It's going to reflect too much light, or remove lighting here. So we've, you know, they help in that sense, but I feel like there's still some flexibility to make adjustments after the rendering's been approved because you're only getting a certain perspective. But it does help to get their initial feedback just so that we're, you know, giving them the. The best, you know, assumption early on.
- [28:47]
Sam
You own the visualization and the development of the space.
- [28:50]
Edith
Mm.
- [28:52]
Sam
Does it lead, does lighting lead, or does lighting follow your design?
- [28:57]
Edith
I think in a hospitality space, I think we want it to follow the design because the design is so crucial. I think in a space like the player's locker room, where lighting is so important and so critical because it's about the energy you create in it, or it could be like the player's tunnel in a specific club where the players run out, then it's really about the lighting. So it just depends on the space.
- [29:22]
Sam
I want to find where that separation kind of is. Right. Creating experience versus energy. How is that validated for you?
- [29:31]
Edith
Early on, we talked about there's a special area here called the piers, the Saiquan piers and those. You know, it's. It's outdoors, so it's. It's still, to me, something, you know, I don't say it's an interior space, but it's. It's a space that, you know, we designed as interior designers, but there was no ceilings. So it's really about the lighting that we had to do there. So to me, that's a perfect example about energy because we really had to rely on, you know, architectural lighting and how that's going to create some mood. We had to put some string lights to create a certain kind of atmosphere and mood. Into it versus if you go into a suite. Right. That's going to be more about, you know, what that in. It's less about the energy to me, and it's more about what the space wants to feel like.
- [30:28]
Sam
People know something nice when they see it, but it's pretty hard to tell. People like spend a lot of money on that lighting.
- [30:37]
Edith
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Sam
Is that true?
- [30:39]
Edith
I think so. I think, you know, there's. Unless it's like a statement chandelier or something. Right. But I, I think you're right. I think that there's this sometimes undervalued. Right.
- [30:53]
Sam
That light, like lighting is not cheap to invest in. Good architectural lighting that you literally don't see, but just feel in terms of illuminating the environment. It costs a lot of money. And the product and the design and the coordination. We all know the devil's in the details, right. How can you, or how do you wish you could like, sell lighting as a luxury even though it's not a statement piece?
- [31:14]
Edith
Like many things on the project where we have to educate the client, you know, I'll give you a perfect example. When it comes to furniture, a lot of times the client will rely on the design team to establish an initial budget because, you know, it's. It's really a different world. Right. So then we really go based off of past experience. And you know, I think it should be similar with lighting where they might have to rely on what's a realistic budget versus giving us a budget that's from, you know, more of a bare bones project that doesn't apply.
- [31:52]
Sam
Do you ever make two renderings, one with good lighting and one with bad lighting, and show it to them?
- [31:58]
Edith
You know, just approval. It's a great idea. And like. Yeah, I. The only time I've seen anything like that has been more on our exterior level. So I know they did that here when it came to the. Because all the concourses are.
- [32:15]
Sam
Yeah, they look sweet.
- [32:17]
Edith
And so they've really had to rely on lighting. Right. Yeah. And so because of that, they did do different studies, like you said, where they had very simple basic lighting that was bad and then some that was, you know, like the enhanced, more expensive versions. So in that sense they did do it. But I think it's a great point to do it maybe on an interior's perspective.
- [32:41]
Sam
You're engaged, you're collaborative. There's no doubt in my mind about it. Right. At the same time, though, there's. There's a start and stop point for everything. There's scope. How do you look at Your scope
- [32:55]
Edith
boundaries with lighting designers, I would say architectural lighting, right. That, that's usually more in their scoop scope, decorative lighting. I think we have more say into it because it's not really what's lighting up the space. It's really just like that cherry on top. So usually that's how we kind of separate it out when it comes to more of these higher end spaces. But I think again, like having that very collaborative, you know, early on, you know, development with them, like you kind of blur the line of like whose scope is what because we really ultimately all want the best product for the stadium.
- [33:33]
Sam
What's your take on architectural lighting details and how to get them right?
- [33:42]
Edith
Oh yeah, I mean, I think, I think that that's a lot of it comes from lessons learned, you know, and I think it's really, we do rely a lot on the consultant to educate us. And you know, I will say there's always like beautiful details that have come out of projects that we will kind of have as typical. Right. But sometimes they might bring a different knowledge to it that we didn't know. Maybe it's, you know, okay, maybe the pocket doesn't have to be that deep or has to be this type of lens. But no, it, it's really, I think just comes from experience in the education.
- [34:25]
Sam
Do you get involved with mock ups ever or do you ever have to challenge them to say we've got to be able to fit it into this?
- [34:33]
Edith
And then yeah, I mean there's always those conversations, especially for these type of spaces where, you know, we kind of have to fight for it or, you know, maybe they, you know, I know that they care for the design but you know, I think sometimes they might be thinking about it in a lighting perspective, not how that, you know, removing something or changing it to something different might affect the design. So I think it's really, we have to be completely, you know, open and transparent in those conversations and not hold back when it's, you know, those coordination calls.
- [35:11]
Sam
Do you like being involved in the lighting ve? How do you get involved? How do you navigate it? When do you get pissed off and say you don't have time for it?
- [35:20]
Edith
I think I don't mind being part of the conversations when it's for these premium interior spaces where it's so critical because one bad decision can hugely impact what the space will look and feel like. So I don't mind being part of those conversations. And obviously if it's like I mentioned architectural, we'll rely on the lighting consultant. But even then, like I want to make sure like, like here you can notice like I'm really particular, like I want them to be really small diameter down lights. Like I don't want to go to a big 4 inch diameter, you know, like certain things that I want to still make sure we, we maintain. So maybe you just have to eliminate, you know, the quantity but still keep the same light levels. So I personally don't mind for these premium spaces that are so critical.
- [36:14]
Sam
This is a dumb question, but I'm going to ask it.
- [36:17]
Edith
There's no dumb question.
- [36:18]
Sam
Why, why is this space so critical?
- [36:21]
Edith
I think because of the end user here, right? So this is as I mentioned before, like, you know, there's owner suites that are adjacent to this right behind us. And so those are the users that end up coming here and they bring their guests. So these are the high rollers. So these to me are the most important people, you know, in terms of VIP access. So you want them to have, you know, that level of hospitality in their spaces more than any other space in the stadium.
- [36:56]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
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- [37:33]
Sam
with clarity and ease.
- [37:34]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
See what's coming next. From breakthrough products to standout projects@kelvix.com or on their social channels, I also want to take a moment to share another company that I respect and enjoy learning from at LED Flex. Linear Light is designed to do more than illuminate. It's engineered to shape how spaces are experienced. Rooted in British manufacturing, LED Flex works alongside lighting designers, interior designers and architects worldwide, supporting projects where detailed precision and execution matters. They're not just a manufacturer, they're a technical partner providing bespoke solutions, rapid prototyping, commissioning and long term support from early concept through final handover, A flight is integral to your architecture. Choose a partner who stays with the project and learn more@leadflex group.com. there's also one more company that I want to introduce you to because they consistently show up where it matters. I know and you know every designer knows the success of a space depends on actually what shows up on site. And that's where diode LED comes in. Lighting performance isn't an add on. It's the foundation of every successful linear lighting project. Designers need solutions that carry ideas smoothly from specification through installation. And diode LED is built to support that reality. With industry leading inventory, reliable delivery and responsive support, Diode LED keeps pace with real project timelines, not theoretical ones. Real solutions for real projects, no matter the scale. Learn more about what's happening in Reno, Nevada at Diodeeled.com Pretty neat, huh? All right, let's get back to the conversation.
- [39:21]
Sam
Have you been able to find a natural ebb and flow of how far you take lighting and then where somebody picks up to get it to the finish line? How much do you rely on that?
- [39:34]
Edith
You know, I think it's pretty consistent of like where that line is. So, you know, I think once, once we have all come together and agreed on what the lighting wants to be, you know, once it gets to that like design development portion of documentation, you know, that's really where it gets handed off most of the time to the lighting consultant to really kind of run with it at that point. And it's really just about coordinating at that.
- [40:05]
Sam
How much of it do you want to see between DD and this whole thing getting built?
- [40:12]
Edith
I mean, we will have coordination calls, you know, once a week sometimes, you know, it's, it's pretty often because there's just always, you know, I think when you're heavy into documentation, obviously there's like a certain point where everyone's just like, you know, getting pencils down and working hard and getting everything done. But when it's really that design portion of it, or we're value engineering, you know, then we're heavily involved for sure.
- [40:42]
Sam
So you dip in and out as it, as it influences your guys's total outcome. When you think about lighting designers in general, what's your experience with them been like?
- [40:55]
Edith
I think it's great when we can all kind of come together and work, especially in those early collaborative stages, in person together, like having those sessions, I think they're just way more effective. But the experience, I mean, it's all been really positive. I think, you know, maybe some more than others, but. And I think it has to do with the communication at the end of the day. And it's obviously we want to, you know, be educated and have the best result, but it's also having a great personality.
- [41:27]
Sam
Communication, doing business, working together is all great. What about on the creativity side?
- [41:33]
Edith
Yeah, I mean, I think on the creativity, I love it when, you know, you have lighting designers that, you know, bring unique ideas or maybe they make you think of something. When you show them these kind of initial sketches or visuals that you wouldn't have thought of, like, those are the people that I want to work with the most because, you know, it's then ultimately feels collaborative.
- [41:56]
Sam
Is there any way to learn how to work with a lighting consultant besides just diving in?
- [42:05]
Edith
You know, I think really it's just being open minded early on and really getting them involved as early as conceptual. You know, that's really the best advice I can give because I think if you wait too, too long, it's like you might, you might show something that isn't right and then it might create a challenge with your lighting designer and create that friction that you don't want. So I think it's really just making it as cohesive from the beginning.
- [42:37]
Sam
How'd you figure that out?
- [42:39]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
You're right.
- [42:40]
Edith
I try to do that with everything in the project.
- [42:42]
Sam
You just do that. That's just your style.
- [42:44]
Edith
That's why I went on my own, you know, because I wanted that even more. That collaborative feeling.
- [42:50]
Sam
You want to bring people to the table.
- [42:52]
Edith
I love partnering with like new architects, for example. Right. Because it's just, I don't know, it's just such a fun experience to just do something super collaborative together and actually create. And like, I don't know, being part of this amazing team, it's just, it's one thing if you do it, you know, like, and, and you say I did it, but if it's like this giant effort and everyone kind of brought their expertise, like, I just think that's even better.
- [43:18]
Sam
You mentioned how a lighting designer might show you something and make you think about it differently. Can you give me a couple examples of like the aha moments that came through those meetings?
- [43:27]
Edith
I'm.
- [43:27]
Sam
I'm just curious.
- [43:29]
Edith
Yeah, I mean, I'll say like, for example, like a current project that I'm, I'm currently working on, like on the concourses that we have, you know, we, we have added like your typical kind of architectural lighting, some, you know, some decorative fixtures, like some baffles and whatnot. And then it was still pretty dark space because it's indoor, it's not outdoor like this stadium. And so, you know, they were like, okay, well we can add these lights through, you know, like around the column that's going to uplight it and downlight it. And it created this super cool effect that we wouldn't thought of. And the client loved it because then they can, you know, change the color of the light too, depending on the game or who's playing or who, you know, whatever concert it might be. So it created this, like, different energy that we wouldn't have thought of.
- [44:21]
Sam
There it is again. Lighting creating energy, right?
- [44:23]
Edith
Yeah. Yeah.
- [44:24]
Sam
It's really interesting how you. You've brought it up a few times. Lighting doesn't necessarily create the experience, it creates the energy. And energy is what feeds that experience. Why do you do this? What? Why? Why sports? Why stadiums? Why this environment?
- [44:38]
Edith
To me, they're just the most rewarding project type that I've ever worked on. Funny enough, I'm not a big sports fan, but I will say, the first time I ever completed my first stadium project, you know, the first opening game day, like, when you're there and you're just sitting down or walking around the concourse and you see whatever might be 30, 35,000 people sitting in their seats, like, cheering on, you just feel the energy of, like, something beautiful you created, you know, that you were part of. There's just no better feeling. And, like, you will. There's no way you're not gonna cry in that moment. And you're like, this is exactly why I spent five years doing this. Like, because you had something to do with the something that is part of the community now that everyone's always going to go there and create a beautiful memory with it.
- [45:29]
Sam
Oh, it's a beautiful stadium. Oh, my God. Let's watch the game. That's what happens.
- [45:33]
Edith
Yeah.
- [45:33]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
What's that?
- [45:34]
Sam
What's it like?
- [45:35]
Edith
It's crazy, you know, to me, it's like, unreal. Especially when I go and see, like, some venue that I want to see, right? So, like, I'll go for concerts most. And, you know, like, I can't wait till the new Titans stadium opens up and I get to see Taylor Swift there. Like, it's just like such a cool feeling. And then if once you walk around the whole space, whether it's a suite or a club, and you see people using the space that it was how it's meant to be used, it's just. It's just the coolest feeling.
- [46:04]
Sam
I'm sure it's validating, too. Like you mentioned when you came in here today, it looks like it did two years ago, that's credit to you, right? If you didn't design it right, people would change it. How else do you like to validate your work and what you do?
- [46:22]
Edith
Anytime that I hear something, you know about it. Like, even on my way here, I took an Uber, and the Uber driver was like, oh. He was shocked to be dropping me off at the stadium. He's like, oh, are you coming to Snapdragon? I was like, oh, yeah, I am. And he's like, oh, this is my favorite stadium. I love coming here. I always have such a great time. And to me, that was so validating because I'm like, that's what you want to hear. You want to hear people coming to the venue and having a great time. So it's just. Even the small gestures or comments.
- [46:57]
Sam
Is your approach to lighting as an element of your design on a project?
- [47:02]
Edith
I think my approach to lighting within a project is really, you know, obviously just thinking about it early on in the project. So as we're visualizing, it's not just how we're shaping the space and the finishes and the furniture you're putting into it, but really thinking about, you know, what it's going to feel like. It's. How are you going to create that energy? And I think the energy comes through with the lighting. Like, it's. You can have a beautifully architectural space with beautiful furniture, but if it's flat and you're not seeing the textures, you're not like, you're not getting different layers within it, then It's. It's not 100% there, you know? So to me, it's really thinking about how we can create that atmosphere.
- [47:50]
Sam
Every element of design adds up to 100%. Where is lighting? Is it the last 5%? The last 1%?
- [47:57]
Edith
It's. It's hard to put a percentage, but I will say it's 25 to 50%, because, like I mentioned, it's just if you're going to see a space flat, you know, again, you can have the most expensive things in that space, but if it's not properly lit, then it's almost like, then what. What's the point of putting it in there? Because you're going to miss it. So to me, it's. It's a huge factor.
- [48:24]
Sam
Are you ready? This is my favorite part of the podcast. This is what we call the chair swap.
- [48:28]
Edith
Okay.
- [48:30]
Sam
You potentially have a question or two about lighting. I'm here to answer them for you.
- [48:38]
Edith
Great.
- [48:40]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
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- [49:28]
Edith
Let's see where the conversation goes. But I'm just really curious, like you being here now, you've seen the Snapdragon stadium, you know you got a glimpse of it. I know you have fully walked around, but what has impressed you the most when it comes to lighting?
- [49:43]
Sam
I think it's so cool how this whole pure concept and there's, there's very high quality pedestrian lighting sitting inside the stadium. What a cool way to, to double down on that design concept. I really like that specifically in here, it's the down lights, like small aperture. It's the lighting isn't just back displayed all over the place or on a grid. Like it's very obvious to me there's lighting where it is. I haven't looked, but yeah, they're adjustable too and they're aimed. So it's not like that's something I love about lighting, but I would not like it if it wasn't aimed. Like I think it's super important to put lighting where it needs to go, not just light a space for the sake of we need it.
- [50:34]
Edith
If you were to be working on any scale project, right, with a design team, like how, how do you think lighting, you know, designers or consultants want to be working with the design team? Like just kind of swap it totally.
- [50:51]
Sam
I have a short answer and I have a long answer. The short answer is as early as humanly possible because it's definitive that lighting can totally create that energy and shape and transform a space. In order to, for lighting to do that, it does need to be in certain places. Right. I can't light this part of the room if I don't have anywhere to put lights. Can I come up with a creative way to get it there? Of course. Now is there time, budget and effort allocated for that? Probably not. You know, so just some like simple opportunities to I think frankly, like come in at a schematic phase and say, you know, if you have seven different programs in a space, here's a typical lighting detail for that. I don't care if you take it or not, but let me at least advise you on maybe a way you could achieve this. So as you Develop your design documentation. And by the way, you have a lot to do before we probably actually get involved. You can have this idea in the back of your mind. I think if, if there's an opportunity to just offer that concept so that you understand the intentionality and outcome of it in, like, the good versus bad rendering. Obviously, you're probably going to want to hang out with them after that because they're fun people. Right. And they're funny and they're ridiculously passionate about something that is very low on the totem pole on the budget. But as you know, 25, 50% of the outcome can, can rely on it.
- [52:21]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
Right?
- [52:23]
Sam
So, yeah, that's, that's, that's the short answer is getting involved early. I think the longer answer. Lighting consultants. Lighting designers need stronger advocacy as a profession. Yeah, they do the job and you pay their bills and, and they go on to the next one. There's a good relationship there. But how can there be four times as many lighting consultants? Not by you hiring the same one every time and not talking about it. Right. By you celebrating who they are and maybe saying, hey, we're going to work with someone else, because we want a variety of experience, but we actually have a client. We, we have a peer who does what we do, who we want to introduce you to. And they've never done someone before, and you made our first experience so special. I think that's something that lighting really wants and also needs from the totem pole of construction.
- [53:12]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
You know,
- [53:15]
Sam
it's no one's job to promote someone else. Right. Business is business. You got to eat what you kill. You got to go out and get what you get. But I, I do think when the experience is positive and makes an impact, how can you support that to the extent that someone who says, no, I don't need them, or, no, I've never worked with them, and I don't have time to figure that out or. I don't know. I'm four years into my career and I haven't sat in on the meetings. You know, I think it's just that that opportunity to expose the success lighting can, can create is also a huge part of it.
- [53:50]
Edith
How crucial do you think, you know, say, architectural versus the decorative versus the, the millwork, like, might be in terms of how you allocate it or, you know, mix it within the design, like, because I, I know again, like, as a designer, we rely on you guys to, like, come up with, okay, where you think certain lighting should go, because we might just make assumptions, but ultimately, you Guys are going to come back and say, this is what we think is best.
- [54:20]
Sam
So I think a lighting professional would answer this a couple different ways. I can give you probably the opportunity to explore both of them. One comes from what podcast guests have referred to as the chameleon sense of being a lighting designer. It's their job to blend in with the project. The other is the. The purist. If you gotta like the space, right? So to the first, the chameleon like sense, it's listening. It's listening to your vision. And what do you talk about? 70% of the meeting. Okay, let's go get the lighting right there and we'll figure out the rest. That may mean you have this beautiful piece that's glowing and it's not enough actual light for the space. So the way we get the actual light for the space are four really big things that you probably think are pretty ugly. But that's all that we have left to afford. And I'm gonna ask you to make that trade, and we're gonna make it. Or your pretty pendants not going in the building. Right. That's probably one way to think about it into that sense. You know, you could wait, like, probably 60 to 70% of the lighting budget to that in those spaces. But you're particular, and I know that. So I'd probably suggest the opposite, which is the pragmatic approach to providing the appropriate amount of illumination through integrated architectural details. And here's the kicker for that. You can't let product drive that. You have to let the designer drive that. You don't need to buy some. Yes, you can buy a prefabricated product. Yes, you can do this. It saves instantly. I've heard every sales pitch under the sun. There's nothing wrong with any of that. And if you end up there as a result of the design, great, even better. But what you really need to actually do is say, I need these design details done. And then I need you to tell me what's left for me to make pretty stuff with. Let's be honest. Does the pretty thing hanging from the ceiling need to have light in it, or is that just traditionally speaking, what it is?
- [56:34]
Edith
And I feel like that we see that a lot. Like, I see it a lot when, if we're using, like, crystal or glass elements, right? Because sometimes you don't need to have the light source within it. You can just light it architecturally from above. I would just be curious, like, you know what. What might be certain elements that a lighting designer might bring to the table? That a designer might not think of.
- [56:59]
Sam
I mean, the classic line is lining is part art, part science. Everybody loves it because it activates your left brain and your right brain. Like all of this stuff is very true, you know, I mean, there's a book that's like 1600 pages thick, it's digital now with codes and standards for lighting. There's a lot of people out there. There's not enough, by the way, but there's a lot of people out there doing research on how much light you need somewhere. I think, you know, what lighting designers have an opportunity to do is understand that technical side to the extent. You never need to know, right? It's a lighting designer's job to be the glue, to be the chameleon, to enhance the architecture. These are all things that you would hear, I think lighting, Lighting designers say what they're not telling you is they're going to do that through the technical means of putting light where it needs to go at the appropriate light levels without putting strain on your eye, right? Without. Without making it something that's visually like flickering or bombarding you. I think at the same time, what they also really like to do, and you're totally clued into this, is develop dimensional lighting, not flat lighting. It's not as easy as light that goes up and light that goes down. It's light that goes up and down and, you know, 60, 40, 40, 60. What controls that, what dims that up and down. Lighting's really not just lighting anymore, if I can be honest. Lighting's a system now. Something that nobody will talk about, but holy bejesus, is so important, is the integration of it all. So you have a luminaire light fixture. Light comes out of it. It has to dim up and down, by the way. That's not as easy as it sounds. So there's a coordination detail on that. Then, you know, in terms of the low end level, how low or how dim can it get? You love that. And a coflight is not just a coflight anymore at all, right?
- [59:12]
Edith
Well, I guess the. The only other questions is more of a fun question, I guess. I love fun questions, but I'm just curious if you have your own words to describe lighting. Like both the energy side of it and the. The side that's like. More about creating like this, like, moody atmosphere.
- [59:29]
Sam
If I picked one word to describe lighting, it would be emotion. Ever seen the sunset? Oh, yeah, Sunrise. And most people have. And how do they feel different than they do in the middle of the day? What did it.
- [59:45]
Edith
It's like, that's a great example.
- [59:49]
Sam
All right, that's the chair swap. Thank you for your questions. I like them. They're good. I think it's a tradition I'm going to start on the podcast anytime somebody isn't. Let's see, how should we do it? Anytime your primary focus in the AEC world isn't lighting, we get a chair swap. Unlimited questions. What a deal.
- [60:09]
Edith
I love it because you're getting both perspectives on it, so why not?
- [60:13]
Sam
Yep. Edith, thank you so much. I appreciate it. This is fun. This is cool. It's a really neat way to experience and explore, I think, the world of lighting. Is there anything else that you want to share with us about your world that you live in or something that you're just, like, ridiculously excited about that you're working on in your career right now?
- [60:41]
Edith
You know, I will say, you know, thank you so much for the opportunity to do this, especially at the venue. Like, it's so unique to have the interview here while, you know, you're in the physical space. So now, to me, it's just been such an amazing journey. So thank you for that. You know, I think for me, what's exciting right now is really just the work that we're doing. And, you know, you're seeing some of the completed work, but some of the work that we're currently working on that I can speak about, that's not confidential, is. I slightly mentioned it before, but the new Nissan Stadium in Nashville for the Tennessee Titans, and that's slated to open in 2027, and it's. It's just incredible. There's a lot of cool lighting that will be in there, especially on the exterior. If you've seen some of the renderings, the exterior is pretty. Pretty cool. There's a lot of, like, built in, you know, LED lighting. And it's. It's just going to be something that. It's going to be a landmark, and you'll. You'll see it from anywhere. So we're really excited to share that and. And for you to get to experience it someday.
- [61:56]
Sam
I am not a Titans fan, but I'm definitely going to a game when it opens.
- [61:59]
Edith
You can come to a concert.
- [62:02]
Sam
I go see a football game.
- [62:03]
Edith
Yeah.
- [62:03]
Sam
Play the Denver Broncos. I'll go see them.
- [62:05]
Edith
Okay.
- [62:07]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
Awesome.
- [62:07]
Sam
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [62:09]
Edith
Of course. Thank you.