Ankur Patel interviews Michael Heller, Associate Attorney at Messick Lauer & Smith.

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Michael Heller is an Associate Attorney at Messick Lauer & Smith, where he focuses on vendor management, technology contracts, due diligence, and fintech partnerships for credit unions and CUSOs.

Guest: Michael Heller, Associate Attorney, Messick Lauer & Smith
Host: Ankur Patel, CEO & Founder, Multimodal

0:00 Introduction
0:42 How Michael started in vendor management for CUs
2:56 Credit unions, CUSOs, and where fintechs fit in
4:14 The nature of the deals: vendor, M&A, and CUSO formation
5:32 Where credit union and tech vendor deals actually go wrong
7:39 Regulated stability vs. move-fast disruption
9:26 Honeymooning and the seeds of discontent
12:16 Why agentic AI deals are harder than traditional software
14:53 Clear exit pathways and a robust change management process
16:32 Indemnification, liability caps, audit rights
17:58 Building a risk framework
20:00 Tricks of the trade
24:13 Setting up a long-term partnership and allocating risk
25:00 AI in credit decisioning: who holds the liability?
26:13 You can't outsource risk
27:44 AI as a tool: the human in the loop stays on the hook
29:44 State vs. federal AI regulation
31:16 Right-sizing AI adoption for smaller credit unions
34:17 How AI is reshaping the legal profession
37:08 Why lawyers are a shield and the cost of getting it wrong
38:14 What a credit union that gets this right looks like in 2-3 years
40:08 Closing