Making It with Jon Davids – Episode 162: This is What We Predict for 2025 | Daniel Rowles vs. Jon Davids
Release Date: January 10, 2025
In Episode 162 of "Making It with Jon Davids," host Jon Davids engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Daniel Rolls, the host of the Digital Marketing Podcast and a renowned expert in digital transformation strategy. Together, they delve into their predictions for the marketing landscape in 2025, exploring the profound impacts of AI, the evolution of creative marketing, the challenges of marketing exhaustion, the emergence of AI agents, and the enduring rise of podcasts.
1. Surge in Business Failure Rates
Daniel Rolls kicks off the discussion with a somber prediction about the increasing rates of business failures in 2025. He attributes this trend to the rapid advancements in generative AI and the subsequent agility challenges faced by established organizations.
-
Key Points:
- Generative AI is creating new opportunities but also enabling startups to quickly embed innovations into AI platforms.
- Established companies struggle to keep pace with AI advancements, leading to heightened disruption and failure rates.
- Agility is becoming a critical component for organizational survival in the fast-evolving market.
-
Notable Quote:
"Business failure rates are going to go through the roof." – Daniel Rolls [01:08]
Jon Davids probes whether these failures are confined to startups or extend to established companies. Daniel responds by highlighting that while startups face higher failure rates due to AI's democratizing power, large organizations are also at risk if they fail to innovate swiftly.
- Notable Quote:
"It's becoming harder and harder for large organizations to adapt quickly enough to stay competitive." – Daniel Rolls [03:02]
2. Shift from Quantitative to Creative Marketing
Jon Davids introduces his second prediction about the increasing reliance on creative marketing over traditional quantitative metrics. He observes that compelling content is outpacing metrics like cost per click (CPC) in driving engagement and organic reach.
-
Key Points:
- High-quality creative content can outperform large follower counts on platforms like Instagram.
- Brands are moving towards valuing creative innovation and authentic storytelling.
- Successful marketing will hinge more on creativity and brand community rather than just numerical metrics.
-
Notable Quote:
"Creative is really winning the day. It doesn't matter if you have 3, 4, 500,000 followers on Instagram, your content sucks." – Jon Davids [07:36]
Daniel Rolls concurs, emphasizing a return to old-school marketing principles that focus on exceptional creative concepts and storytelling to cut through the digital noise.
- Notable Quote:
"Marketing in 2025 is like marketing in 1965. It's about creating great advertising that resonates." – Daniel Rolls [09:05]
3. Marketing Exhaustion Amidst Content Saturation
Jon Davids presents his third prediction centered on marketing exhaustion, citing the oversaturation of copycat content and the diminishing returns of traditional marketing strategies.
-
Key Points:
- Brands increasingly mimic successful formats (e.g., Gary Vee’s style, viral threads) leading to a homogenized content landscape.
- Best practices often stifle creativity, as brands adhere rigidly to prescribed formats and lengths.
- There exists a significant market gap for truly unique and authentic content that stands out.
-
Notable Quote:
"There’s a lot of laziness and people are getting ahead of their skis." – Jon Davids [05:13]
Daniel Rolls echoes these sentiments, noting that AI has exacerbated the issue by enabling the mass production of low-quality content, thereby amplifying marketing exhaustion.
- Notable Quote:
"AI has made it tenfold worse in terms of the amount of low quality content out there." – Daniel Rolls [17:42]
4. Emergence of AI Agents in Marketing
Daniel Rolls introduces his fourth prediction about the rise of AI agents, envisioning a burgeoning industry that leverages these agents to perform complex marketing tasks with unprecedented efficiency.
-
Key Points:
- AI agents can execute specific tasks autonomously, enabling marketers to streamline processes like competitor analysis and market research.
- Platforms like HubSpot’s Agent AI are pioneering the integration of multiple AI agents to create comprehensive marketing strategies.
- The development of microservices and marketplaces for AI agents will democratize access to advanced marketing tools, reducing dependence on traditional developers.
-
Notable Quote:
"AI agents, we're going to see a whole industry building around this." – Daniel Rolls [23:43]
Jon Davids seeks clarification on practical applications, prompting Daniel to provide concrete examples of how marketers can utilize AI agents to enhance productivity and innovation.
- Notable Quote:
"You could have a drag and drop kind of interface that allows you to build something quickly." – Daniel Rolls [25:58]
5. The Continued Rise of Podcasts as a Marketing Tool
Jon Davids shares his fifth prediction on the sustained growth of podcasts, underscoring their unique ability to foster deep connections and drive meaningful engagement.
-
Key Points:
- Podcasts offer an intimate medium where listeners engage with hosts on a personal level, fostering trust and loyalty.
- The rise of podcasts during significant events (e.g., US Presidential elections) highlights their power in shaping narratives and reaching diverse audiences.
- Success in podcasting requires perseverance and authenticity, as illustrated by Daniel’s 15-year commitment before gaining traction.
-
Notable Quote:
"Perseverance and persistence. You have to also kind of enjoy what you're doing enough to hit the mic." – Jon Davids [32:30]
Daniel Rolls shares his experiences, emphasizing that podcasts succeed through consistent value delivery and by building trust with the audience, rather than overt brand promotion.
- Notable Quote:
"If you ask a question in the podcast and I get a load of emails... it means they're listening and they're making enough effort to go and do something." – Daniel Rolls [38:17]
6. Defining Success in Podcasting
Both hosts discuss metrics and indicators of podcast success beyond traditional rankings and download numbers. They highlight the importance of unsolicited connections, lead generation, and audience engagement as true measures of impact.
-
Key Points:
- Success is gauged by the quality of interactions, such as listener feedback and meaningful inquiries.
- Building a trusted brand through consistent value delivery encourages organic audience growth.
- Over-reliance on best practices can hinder creative experimentation that resonates more deeply with listeners.
-
Notable Quote:
"It's about community, it's about human interaction. It's about all those kind of things that have always been important." – Daniel Rolls [28:39]
Conclusion: Embracing Creativity and Human Connection
As the conversation wraps up, Daniel Rolls emphasizes the enduring importance of creative storytelling and human-centric marketing amidst the evolving digital landscape. Both hosts advocate for brands to lean into authenticity and innovative creativity to navigate the complexities of 2025’s marketing environment.
-
Final Insights:
- Focus on storytelling and human connection as foundational elements of successful marketing.
- Embrace experimentation and authenticity over rigid adherence to best practices.
- Recognize the transformative potential of AI while maintaining ethical and human-centered approaches.
-
Notable Quote:
"Forget the algorithms and focus on the human connection." – Daniel Rolls [39:23]
Jon Davids concludes by encouraging listeners to prioritize authentic engagement and creative excellence, reinforcing that long-term success lies in building genuine relationships and delivering meaningful value.
Key Takeaways:
- Agility and Innovation: Businesses must embed agility into their structures to harness AI advancements and mitigate high failure rates.
- Creative Emphasis: Shifting focus from quantitative metrics to creative storytelling can significantly enhance brand engagement and organic reach.
- Combat Marketing Exhaustion: Standing out requires unique, authentic content that breaks free from saturated, formulaic approaches.
- Leverage AI Agents: The rise of AI agents offers marketers new tools for efficiency and innovation, paving the way for advanced, automated strategies.
- Podcasting’s Power: Persistent, authentic podcasting can foster deep audience connections and drive impactful engagement beyond traditional marketing channels.
As we navigate 2025, Jon Davids and Daniel Rolls urge marketers and business leaders to embrace creativity, harness the potential of AI thoughtfully, and prioritize authentic human connections to propel their brands to success.