Summary of Episode 164: "This is How I Run Marketing at a $1B+ Company" with Carolyn Sarnoff, CMO at Pattern
In Episode 164 of Making It with Jon Davids, host Jon Davids engages in a compelling conversation with Carolyn Sarnoff, the Chief Marketing Officer at Pattern, a leading company generating $1.3 billion in revenue as of 2023. The episode delves into Carolyn's extensive experience in marketing, her strategic approaches at Pattern, and insights drawn from her 13-year tenure at Amazon. This detailed summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key strategies, challenges, and forward-thinking perspectives that are invaluable for marketers and business leaders alike.
1. Strategies for High-Ticket Marketing
The conversation kicks off with an exploration of effective strategies for capturing the attention of busy, high-ticket clientele. Carolyn emphasizes the importance of addressing the core challenges faced by the target audience before presenting any solutions.
Notable Quote:
"First, we think a lot about just what are the really big challenges that are facing our target audience."
– Carolyn Sarnoff [01:39]
Carolyn illustrates this approach by discussing how Pattern addresses supply chain and logistics pain points during peak shopping seasons. By showcasing empathy and understanding of these challenges, Pattern effectively engages potential customers right from the top of the funnel.
2. Starting with the Problem, Not the Product
A fundamental marketing principle highlighted by Carolyn is the necessity of starting with the problem rather than the product. This tactic ensures that the messaging resonates with the audience's immediate needs and pain points.
Notable Quote:
"You have to build some credibility. ... you have to earn the right for them to listen to you."
– Carolyn Sarnoff [04:30]
Jon reinforces this by pointing out the common mistake of starting with the product, which often fails to capture attention. Instead, initiating the conversation with a question about shared challenges can significantly improve engagement.
3. Consistency Across Marketing Channels
The discussion moves to the importance of maintaining a consistent brand voice across all marketing channels. Carolyn shares Pattern's experience of aligning their digital strategy with their in-person brand persona to enhance customer engagement.
Notable Quote:
"Creating that like, hey, here's actually who we are and here's actually like an articulation of that and making sure that everyone on the team has that."
– Carolyn Sarnoff [10:36]
Jon echoes this sentiment, sharing his observations of disconnects between in-person events and digital content in other companies. He underscores the value of unified brand guidelines to ensure a seamless brand experience across all touchpoints.
4. Marketing Attribution and Metrics
A significant portion of the episode delves into marketing attribution and the challenges of measuring the true impact of various marketing activities. Carolyn discusses how Pattern leverages data-driven approaches to trace leads from initial contact to conversion, moving beyond vanity metrics like clicks and impressions.
Notable Quote:
"It means less to me even if our metrics look really good. It means less to me if I don't have a sales team that's being like, oh my gosh, that was awesome."
– Carolyn Sarnoff [15:28]
Jon adds that understanding the quality of leads and their progression through the sales funnel is crucial. He emphasizes the importance of evaluating metrics that reflect the lifetime value and quality of engagement, rather than just surface-level numbers.
5. Lessons from Amazon
Carolyn shares invaluable insights from her 13-year career at Amazon, highlighting the company's focus on problem-solving and leadership principles over specific domain expertise. She discusses the culture of continuous rotation and learning from mistakes, which fosters innovation and personal growth.
Notable Quote:
"Amazon really, really values taking smart, motivated, driven people who can come in and just love to problem solve."
– Carolyn Sarnoff [17:19]
She recounts a significant learning experience where a major inventory mistake served as a pivotal moment for personal and professional development, emphasizing the importance of owning mistakes and extracting lessons from them.
6. The Role of AI in Marketing
In the latter part of the episode, Carolyn discusses the burgeoning role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in marketing. She highlights the potential of AI for content generation and personalization, while also cautioning against overreliance on AI without understanding the underlying data sets that drive these tools.
Notable Quote:
"What really differentiates one tool from another is the data set that that tool is trained on."
– Carolyn Sarnoff [31:44]
Jon concurs, likening the importance of data sets to seeking advice from experts with relevant experience. He underscores that the quality and specificity of data are what set effective AI tools apart in delivering meaningful and actionable insights.
7. Tactical Tips for 2025
As the conversation concludes, Carolyn offers forward-looking tactics for marketers in 2025:
- Leverage AI for Efficiency: Use AI tools to generate initial drafts of content, which can then be refined to align with brand voice and tone.
- Focus on Data Quality: Prioritize AI tools that utilize robust and relevant data sets to ensure accurate and actionable outputs.
- Emphasize Human-AI Collaboration: Combine AI-generated content with human creativity to maintain authenticity and engagement.
- Maintain Brand Consistency: Continuously audit and align all marketing channels with established brand guidelines to ensure a unified customer experience.
Notable Quote:
"It's about telling the story of what does the AI enable, not just the fact that it is an AI tool."
– Jon Davids [34:44]
Carolyn reiterates the importance of enhancing capabilities through AI rather than merely adopting AI for its own sake, ensuring that technology serves to solve real problems and improve efficiency.
Conclusion
Episode 164 offers a deep dive into the intricacies of managing marketing at a billion-dollar company, enriched by Carolyn Sarnoff's vast experience and strategic insights. From emphasizing the importance of addressing customer pain points first to leveraging AI thoughtfully, the episode provides actionable strategies and thoughtful reflections that can guide marketers and business leaders in navigating the complex landscape of modern marketing.
Listeners gain a nuanced understanding of effective marketing practices, the importance of consistency and data-driven decision-making, and the thoughtful integration of emerging technologies like AI. Carolyn's experiences at Amazon and Pattern serve as powerful lessons in leadership, adaptability, and continuous improvement, making this episode a valuable resource for anyone aiming to elevate their marketing efforts and drive substantial business growth.
Notable Quotes Highlighted with Timestamps:
-
Carolyn Sarnoff [01:39]:
"First, we think a lot about just what are the really big challenges that are facing our target audience." -
Carolyn Sarnoff [04:30]:
"You have to build some credibility. ... you have to earn the right for them to listen to you." -
Carolyn Sarnoff [10:36]:
"Creating that like, hey, here's actually who we are and here's actually like an articulation of that and making sure that everyone on the team has that." -
Carolyn Sarnoff [15:28]:
"It means less to me even if our metrics look really good. It means less to me if I don't have a sales team that's being like, oh my gosh, that was awesome." -
Carolyn Sarnoff [17:19]:
"Amazon really, really values taking smart, motivated, driven people who can come in and just love to problem solve." -
Carolyn Sarnoff [31:44]:
"What really differentiates one tool from another is the data set that that tool is trained on." -
Jon Davids [34:44]:
"It's about telling the story of what does the AI enable, not just the fact that it is an AI tool."
This comprehensive summary encapsulates the insightful dialogue between Jon Davids and Carolyn Sarnoff, offering listeners a wealth of knowledge and practical advice to implement in their own marketing strategies and business endeavors.