← Making It with Jon Davids
Making It with Jon Davids
194 - Bobbi Brown: “I Just Wanted To Sell Lipstick — Now It’s a $1B Brand. Here’s What Happened.”
00:40:59
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- [00:00]
John Davids
What's up, guys? JD Here. And on today's show, we've got the one and only Bobby Brown. And if that name sounds familiar, it's because Bobby Brown, the woman is the founder of Bobby Brown, the billion dollar makeup brand. She launched that company in 1991, sold it to Estee Lauder four years later, grew it to a billion dollars in annual sales, and then she did it again. She launched Jones road Beauty in 2020, which is reportedly already well over 100 million in ANN. So we get into it on this podcast, the early days, the growth, and what it was like to be the first beauty influencer. Bobby's also got a memoir coming out in September 2025 called Still Bobby. And you could pre order that right now. Welcome to the podcast. My name's John Davids, but you can call me J.D. i'm the CEO of Influicity, and on this show, I like to share the stories of some of my favorite businesses and the people behind them. If that's your thing, make sure to hit that subscribe button. Wherever you're listening, leave a review and tell a friend. That's how I know to keep doing this. Get my best stuff to your inbox@johndavids.com and now let's talk to Bobby Brown. You're listening to Making it with John Davidson. So, Bobby, when you're 34 years old, you've been working as a freelance makeup artist for about a decade, and then you come out with this natural line of lipstick, and that lipstick becomes the billion dollar brand that we know today as Bobbi Brown. So I'm just wondering if you can take me back there for a minute and tell me, what was that first year or two like?
- [01:46]
Bobby Brown
Well, I was 34 when we sold the company to Estee Lauder. So I started with just the lipsticks a couple years earlier, I think I was 32, and I was, you know, working in the industry for about 10 years at least. I mean, I worked my way up as a freelance makeup artist and somehow worked my way into Vogue magazine, got a cover, which was a big deal in the makeup world. Met this guy, got married, moved out of the city to New Jersey and got pregnant and. And didn't wanna travel anymore. And around that time, I met a chemist at a store in New York. And I didn't realize it was pitching, but I told him I always wanted to make a lipstick, and he said I could do it for you. So I put together this collection of 10 lipsticks that he made for me that we split And I started selling lipsticks basically out of my purse.
- [02:42]
John Davids
So you just happened to fumble into a billion dollar brand. So when. Okay, let's go back for a second. So you lipsticks, what even gave you the idea or the need to create lipsticks? Like there were plenty of lipsticks on the market.
- [02:56]
Bobby Brown
Well, because I'm a makeup artist and because my style of makeup was different than the norm, it was different than what was in the magazines and different than what was at the store, for sure. I used to really struggle as a makeup artist that I couldn't buy and get traditional makeup to look good on people's faces. The colors were wrong, the textures were wrong. I thought they smelled bad. Everything just looked like makeup. And I've always been someone that really believed that people look better when they don't look like they're wearing makeup. So even with lipsticks, I could never find a lipstick that looked like I wanted it to look. I used to make my own. I didn't make my own, but I would fix things. I had hacks that I could take a lipstick or I could take like a little blush, like a creamy blush, mix it with the taupe pencil, put a little Vaseline or lip balm and blotted on so it just looked like a stained lip color. But you couldn't buy a lipstick that you could just put on to look like that. So when I met this chemist, I said, I just have this idea. And he said, I can make it for you. So he made me the first one, which is what I wanted for myself, which was a lipstick that I could literally just put on, blot my lips together and have that color. It didn't exist. So I thought, wow, everyone's going to love this. I know so many people that would. But then I realized not everyone has the same color lips. So I needed variations of different colors. And trust me, I never thought I would have a company. I never thought I would be a brand. I never thought, you know, a dollar amount. It was a, you know, now we call it side hustle. It was just something for me to do. I'm like, wow, I could make a little money, you know, so, you know, little, little lunch money and that was it.
- [04:40]
John Davids
So you were selling them at freelance gigs, I assume you gig. And then you'd say, hey, you can also buy my lipstick.
- [04:45]
Bobby Brown
Yeah, yeah. And so I started, you know, oh my God, what is that lipstick? And I'm like, oh. And I told them and they, I would take orders and I would, you know, I didn't have it with me, but I would take orders. And then I started just selling them to friends. You know, I'd sell them to moms in the park. I'd go to the park with my kids, I start talking to people, and I would, you know, sell a couple lipsticks. And then one day I was at lunch with an editor friend of mine who also was a new mom, and we were just. It was a social and a business meeting. And she said, what's going on? You know, how are the kids? And then I told her about this new lipstick thing I'm doing. And she was the beauty editor of Glamour magazine. And she said, well, why don't I write about them? I'm like, why would you want to write about this? And so she wrote about it and put an 800 number in, or my home number, I don't even remember. And we got bombarded with calls, so we had a little side hustle. By the way, I was still a working makeup artist commuting into the city carrying my bags. My husband was in law school. I had this new baby and I'd come home from work. My husband did law school at night because he had a regular job. I mean, it was. It was quite the time. And we were in our early 30s.
- [06:00]
John Davids
If you're spending more than $50,000 a year on marketing, I've got something for you. It's a playbook I wrote called how to build a Social Media Selling machine. You can grab it now for free@johndavis.com playbook. This is the nine step formula we use for our clients at Influicity to turn their social media channels into reliable revenue engines. Grab it right now@johndavids.com playbook and you get this write up in Glamour magazine. What happens the next day? Is your phone ringing off the hook?
- [06:32]
Bobby Brown
Yeah, we got a lot of calls and a lot of orders, and then we started just like, fulfilling them. And luckily my husband was super smart and a businessman, so he had to start set up a business. I guess he started.
- [06:50]
John Davids
And this is even before I was gonna say, we're not talking about your Shopify store or your DTC business. You're selling them out of your purse. You're getting orders over the phone. This is real orders.
- [07:01]
Bobby Brown
Yeah, I'm not even sure if I had a receipt to give them. And, you know, I somehow knew, like, first of all, we didn't have boxes, so there were black lipstick cases that I chose out of a catal. Actually, no, I didn't choose that out of a catalog. It's what the chemist had. So it looked to me like Chanel. I'm like, okay, this looks great. And we put it in a manila envelope and I guess he told me that you have to give people the ingredients. So we wrote the ingredients on a card that fit in the manila envelope. And then I would put that small manila envelope into a bigger one to mail it to people. I didn't mail it. My husband did it. And then we started to get a lot of orders. So my sister in law would drive up from, you know, South Jersey a couple times a week and she would then go to the post office and go to the bank and, you know, she started doing our books and we had a mini little business and, you know, the cash was small, but it was all helping.
- [08:00]
John Davids
And when did you get into Bergdorf Goodman? I think was your first retailer. How did that happen?
- [08:07]
Bobby Brown
Well, some, you know, sometime I must have been pregnant with my second kid. You know, they're two years apart. So sometime during that, you know, a year, A year to a year and a half after we were selling it out of our house of friends of ours invited us to a party in the city. We went to this nice lady's house and introduced myself and I said, I'm Bobby, because I know who you are. I'm a fan of your makeup. I said, oh, thank you so much. She knew me from the magazines and I said, what do you do? She said, I'm. I'm a cosmetics buyer, Bergdorf Goodman. I had, I had never shopped at Bergdorf. And I said to her, oh, I'm doing this thing, thing. And I told her, she says, wow, that's fascinating. Why don't you bring it in? We'd love to carry it. I said, oh my God, that would be so cool. I knew nothing. I mean, we didn't even have like outside of boxes. And she said, okay, we'll take it. And that's it. And so we launched at Bergdorf Goodman.
- [09:04]
John Davids
Of course, there's a lot of steps. And I read somewhere that you were planning or hoping to sell maybe a hundred a week and then you sold out right away. And the numbers were just off the charts from the beginning. Right, right.
- [09:14]
Bobby Brown
We thought we'd sell 100 the first month and we sold hundred the first day. So when we had the opening, so yeah, it was, you know, we were off to the races.
- [09:23]
John Davids
And this is all while you still just are carrying 10 lipsticks. So did you think about developing new things at that point?
- [09:30]
Bobby Brown
Well, when, you know, there were definitely People coming into the stores, into Bergdorf, looking at what is this? And we didn't have a counter. We were on a table like, you know, with other cosmetics bags. But we had a, you know, a cool little stone display that my husband made because he's a developer. So he made it and people, you know, were buying it. And the president of the store came down and he said, wow, he couldn't believe, you know, he couldn't believe the how many people were coming in because I guess through my other magazine work, other magazines started writing about this little, you know, this little teeny company. So more people knew about it. And he said, okay, we need more than lipsticks. So we then went to lip pencils and then we went to eyeshadows.
- [10:17]
John Davids
This is all really demand driven. I mean, you had customers asking for it, you had buyers. Now you have the president of a retailer asking for it. And then a few years later, I think it was 95, Estee Lauder comes along and buys it. How did that deal happen?
- [10:32]
Bobby Brown
Well, we were the number one line at Bergdorf Goodman, which is crazy when you think about it, because we didn't have a full line of makeup and we were still the number one line. So we, you know, I guess we started eating some of the big brands lunch. Then we launched at Neiman Marcus. So we started with four Neiman Marcuses and we ended up becoming the number one line at Neiman Marcus too. So we were the number one line in both, which was crazy. You know, I don't even know if we had skincare then. I, you know, it's, it's hard to remember back then. And I got a call one day through a mutual friend that Leonard Lauder was interested in meeting us. And we, I went to meet him and fell in love with him and, you know, the rest is history.
- [11:14]
John Davids
Did you have ambitions at that point of selling the company or you thought you would just run this forever?
- [11:19]
Bobby Brown
I never thought about selling the company. You know, and by the way, all the things that all the founders now start talking about, you know, we want to scale, we want to take investments, we want an A. We want to be, we want to. I didn't know anything. I didn't need anything. I never took a nickel from anyone. We funded it ourselves and, you know, we had bus. We ended up taking on business partners to launch. After we did our just the lipsticks out of my house, we did split the company with another couple who had more experience in the industry than us. So it wasn't just my husband and I Kind of figuring it out. We figured it out with these guys. We all brought different things to the table, and, you know, we weren't for sale. And Lauder was not the first person that called. We had other people that called, and we just said, we're not for sale. And it just really.
- [12:11]
John Davids
You had multiple acquisition offers?
- [12:13]
Bobby Brown
We did. I mean, it never got as far as an acquisition, but, yes. We had a VC firm out of Texas. We had Shiseido came to us. We had many, many dinners, you know, with the people from Japan. And I. You know, there was another French company, I don't remember, but, you know, we were kind of on top of the world. I mean, I was still a top makeup artist. So I would be on every single magazine, and I became the person they would go to asking for advice. Bobby, what's the trend of the season? Bobby, what are people wearing? How do you do this? And my job was not to sell. I knew early on it didn't make any sense for me to be the. You know, I didn't want to be hawking my products, but I had. I didn't even know it was a platform, but I had a platform to be able to talk about beauty and be the one that teaches people, you don't have to wear all that makeup. And guess what? Your makeup should have yellow tone so it looks like you're not wearing it. It was kind of like totally against everything in the industry. You don't have to contour. You don't have to. I was the teacher. That's how I became a beauty guru. Right, Because I gave people advice, but I also made the makeup.
- [13:25]
John Davids
Did that come first? So which came first? The brand and then you as a result, or were you already a kind of a big deal?
- [13:32]
Bobby Brown
I was already, you know, in my industry, a big deal. Did makeup for all the fashion shows. And when you do makeup for a fashion show, you know, with the designer, you create a look. And I got to create a look using my products and then making a face chart. And then during the fashion show, when you're making up the models, you have a photographer taking pictures. But then you have all the outlets, the tv, the newspapers, magazines. They're all there capturing photos. And, you know, while I'm working, I've got microphones, you know, Bobby, what is it? What are we going to see? What's the trend? What's this? And I always know one thing, and that's to be myself. So I got known as being the person, you know, next season we're going to see A lot of muted browns. But I don't believe in trends. I just would be who I was and not be this fabulous character like people kind of expected. And it worked for me, not against me.
- [14:28]
John Davids
It worked for you in a big way. Whose idea was it to call the makeup brand Bobby Brown?
- [14:33]
Bobby Brown
It was not mine. It was not mine. I'm not sure because there was a bunch of us around a table in my house and you know, a friend of my husband who was a graphic designer who did the logo and the couple that were, you know, ended up being our partners, we were all sitting around the table. I think my father was there too, and somebody said it and I was like, okay. You know, we were coming up with names, like we were thinking, what do we call it? Basics, Simple. Like it was always my concept. But someone said, just call up Bobby Brown. And I'm like, okay.
- [15:09]
John Davids
And that was a pretty fateful decision because you then become this really the first beauty influencer. Like you were Kylie, way before Kylie. You were, you were somebody who had a platform in the 90s and the 2000s. And is that something that you kind of realized and ran with or was it just kind of happenstance?
- [15:28]
Bobby Brown
You know, I'm a very funny person. I also, while this was all happening, I lived in the suburbs with my husband, with my. Then I had two kids. You know, I dropped my kid at school, you know, as much as possible. I had my local friends. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't living the New York life. I was living my life the way I wanted to live it. And you know, it just, I always just kept going. Like I'm even, even now. I don't think about what I did this past month or I'd be exhausted. I, I just keep going. Oh, okay, that's interesting. That makes sense. And people are like, I don't sit and have strategic meetings.
- [16:11]
John Davids
You've got a motor and you just keep moving.
- [16:13]
Bobby Brown
I have a motor, yes.
- [16:15]
John Davids
All right, so 1995, Estee Lauder buys you and you actually signed a 25 year non compete, which I want to get back to in a second. But they buy you for a reported $75 million. And then was your plan to just stay and run it or did you think you'd have a quick exit?
- [16:31]
Bobby Brown
No, I didn't. Never thought I would. No. It was my company. Yeah, I sold it, but it was still my company in my head. You know, I went to work every day like it was my company. And guess what? Estee Lauder was thrilled. You know, Leonard Lauder was the CEO and he believed in me more than anyone has ever believed in me. So all of a sudden I've got my naivete of what I think should happen and I've got someone that thinks I'm, you know, all that and supported me on everything I needed. So in the beginning, it was just magic.
- [17:03]
John Davids
And I have to imagine that there were people out there on the fifth Avenue office of Estee Lauder that were just terrified of you because a 25 year non compete tells me that they didn't want you out there doing something new anytime soon. So what was the dynamic like? Were you kind of welcomed with open arms? Were you the one that nobody wanted to work with?
- [17:22]
Bobby Brown
No, I was welcomed with open armed. Everyone was, everyone was great. I'm sure there was plenty of people that scratched their heads and just said, what is this? Right? I mean, you know, and there was plenty of longtime employees, because Lauder always has longtime employees that were incredibly giving and caring and gave me a lot of information, gave me, you know, some of the best and some of the worst advice I've ever heard in the universe. But you know, it was a, Back then SD Lauder was a family. I mean, Leonard treated everyone like they were part of the family. All of all of the employees, him and his wife, his then wife, it was a magic place to be. Every time, got invited to some fabulous museum party or something incredible. We sat at Leonard's table and he just introduced us to every single person. It was pretty remarkable.
- [18:13]
John Davids
And how did it evolve over a quarter century? I mean, was there ever a time that you thought, okay, I gotta get outta here, or were you just on cloud nine the whole time?
- [18:22]
Bobby Brown
No, I mean, look, there's businesses, business and things get tough and things mess up. Like it's just, you know, it's, it's part of business, right? You deal with it. You know, things don't come when they're supposed to. The lipsticks arrive and the caps don't fit. I mean, there's always issues and problems and there's always people problems, right? I mean, some of the biggest problems were you hire someone you think is right and they're not. And there was a lot of, lot of those kind of problems. So you deal with it, that's part of business, right? You know, and trying to figure out how to make the right decisions. And like I, I like all those challenges and you know, I stayed 22 years as an employee. I left four and a half years before my 25 year non compete was.
- [19:08]
John Davids
Up and Was that a pleasant exit or was it acrimonious?
- [19:13]
Bobby Brown
No, it was not a pleasant exit. And it was really tough the last couple years. And, you know, I actually have a memoir coming out in September, so, you know, there'll be some more stories nicely.
- [19:24]
John Davids
So you start this new brand in 2020 Jones Road. And you started actually during the pandemic, I think.
- [19:32]
Bobby Brown
Well, right before. Actually, I started before the pandemic, but it launched during the pandemic.
- [19:37]
John Davids
And what was the idea behind. I mean, I'm guessing the idea was your non compete is up, so let's. Let's get. Let's do this thing. But what was the kind of thought behind that next company?
- [19:47]
Bobby Brown
Well, you know, I thought I was done and I tried doing a couple other things and I just didn't have my entire heart. You know, I had a wellness brand which we did supplements and powders and all sorts of things, you know, done in for mass. You know, I had done the luxury, and I'm like, all right, let me try my hand at mass. It was interesting, but certainly not successful. And I. My heart wasn't in it. Could I have fixed it maybe? You know, could I have brought in the right people, maybe? But I didn't. And I just. I missed the industry. But more than that, I saw things shifting and changing and I had changed so much, you know, being out of. Out of a corporate environment. And I needed to teach people that there's an alternative to applying a ton of makeup. There's an alternative. And I started messing around with products and I fell in love with a bunch of them. And I said, okay, I'm gonna do a little mini indie small company. Sure didn't happen.
- [20:49]
John Davids
But it wasn't so small.
- [20:51]
Bobby Brown
No, it's not so small. But when I started, I'm like, let me just. You know, my first idea was I'm just gonna make the best brown eyeshadow and I'm gonna launch it on Etsy. That didn't happen either, but it would have been a good idea.
- [21:04]
John Davids
So what actually was. So I think what I read was that there was a. Was it a bomb, a moisture bomb or something that actually.
- [21:12]
Bobby Brown
Yeah, we are. Yeah. Miracle balm.
- [21:14]
John Davids
Miracle bomb it is.
- [21:16]
Bobby Brown
Yeah. It's this pot of makeup that is a combination. It's a clean. It's all clean formulas. And this is a hybrid skincare and makeup. So it really kind of lets you not put skin care on. It lets you not put makeup on. You put one thing, you tint. You could tint your skin. You can make it a blush. You can even get one without color. And it was definitely something that didn't exist before.
- [21:44]
John Davids
So you have this innate instinct, I think with lipsticks the first time and then this moisture bomb or miracle bomb the second time, it seems like your go to market strategy is let's pick one hero product and that's going to represent the brand. Is that how you think about it or did this happen twice for you?
- [22:03]
Bobby Brown
Can't say, I'm going to make a hero product. No. You don't know what becomes hero. Right. You just don't know. Like, you can't have a meeting and say, okay, we need a hero product. No, you make products that you love and you think are the very best. Some of them really resonate with your consumer, others not so much. And maybe you kind of have to fix them or get rid of them and do something else. So, you know, Jones Road has made certainly the miracle bomb. And we have a bunch of other things that are, you know, if you look at our everyday sales that are, you know, pretty close to the same amount of miracle balm that we sell, we've got three or four other products. What's a hero product? Hero product is, I think it's something that everybody wants that can't be duplicated. And trust me, people have tried. I see all the. I see all the dupes.
- [22:54]
John Davids
And so I understand that you can't. You can't predict that in advance. But I think a business needs to have, or at least in the cases that you've run, it needs to have something that people can stand behind that, that it can be known for. That was kind of an accident, though. I heard a story where you actually. It was an accident, like you didn't actually want this product in the first place, right?
- [23:14]
Bobby Brown
No, I didn't even want to open it. I could have very easily pushed it. Like I had asked someone for something. We made a brief. It finally arrived. I mean, it was during the pandemic. Everything took forever. And when it finally came, I opened it up and I was like, this is not what I wanted. And I could have just, you know, thrown it in a drawer, but instead I stuck my hand in it and I went like this, you know, rubbed my fingers together. I put it on my face and I'm like. And I looked in the mirror. I'm like, oh, my God, look at how much better I look. And that's. I said, this is a miracle. And that became a miracle bomb. Someone said, wow, what should we call it? I said, all right, let's just call it Miracle Bomb. They said, okay. And that's how easy, you know, this new company was to start.
- [23:59]
John Davids
And so that, that was the first product. And this company, I think I read somewhere that you hit $20 million in the first year. You were named the fastest growing D2C beauty brand of 2021. Was this sort of, did you expect that at that point because you already kind of had done it before, or was it again, a surprise?
- [24:16]
Bobby Brown
I did not expect it at all. And, you know, I remember the first year someone interviewed me and I said, I don't want another billion dollar brand. Well, guess what? My friend from the VC world or from Investments called me, says, do not say that ever again in the press. And we're well on our way.
- [24:37]
John Davids
What's different? I'm sure the starting of, obviously the first company was decades ago, but you were running a business like this in 2014. 15. Is it very different today? Is it kind of a whole new world?
- [24:50]
Bobby Brown
It's very different. There's so many things that are the same. You have to make something people want, and not only they want. You have to make something that they want to buy more than once. You know, you want replenishment, you want people to buy them again. You want people to tell their friends, their mothers, their, you know, confidants, you, you must try this, you must try this. So that's the same. And, and it's gotta be. You have to make a product that really represents you because there's so many, you know, inspirational products that brands do that are, you know, or you can call them knockoffs, whatever they get, you know, people get inspired and all of a sudden you see this market with all these different products. Well, why would people buy yours and not theirs? You know, people are going to have nicer packaging than, than I'm going to do. People are going to have more marketing on the labels. I'm like, no, my formulas have to be superior in all different ways because my packaging, especially with Jones Road, I want it to be easy, I want it to be cool, I want it to be simple. And I don't want it to spend, I don't want to spend a lot of money on it. They're all, it's all stock packaging and I have, you know, the cool Jones Road logo on it, but it's not, you know, oh my God, this is a fabulous little Faberge egg. Because that's just not what I believe in.
- [26:17]
John Davids
Quick break. So I can tell you about Toyota. And no, this is not a car. Commercial. This is a commercial for Influicity. That's the marketing agency I created in my apartment almost a decade ago. And man, have we outgrown my apartment. You can see how we help Toyota introduce their vehicles to a brand new generation of drivers. Check out the case study@influicity.com that's inf l u I I c I t y influicity.com so what, what do you think you're really good at? Obviously, you're a makeup artist and even to this day, you're, you're doing makeup on people's faces. But, like, what do you think as a business leader and as a brand in yourself? What's your talent?
- [26:58]
Bobby Brown
I'm, I'm highly visual. So I love, you know, I have my, I have my own aesthetic. It's not the same as everyone's, but it's my aesthetic where I think people look the best. So I like to show people, you know, with this beautiful glow, this beautiful healthy look, whatever it is. And I want to make products that allows people to do that to themselves. That you don't need instruction manuals, you don't even need a makeup artist to show you how to do it. Because though we have 10 retail stores, that's not what the majority of our business, you know, we're, that is like maybe 5 to 10% of our business. And you have to be able to understand it when you go online and look at it on the website and then you get it home. It's got to work for you. So I think I'm. I don't think. I know I'm good at formula, you know, and I'm really good at, you know, making sure I have the right team around me to help me do what I need to do. I think those are probably my two strengths.
- [28:07]
John Davids
It sounds like that. It sounds like in the early days you were talking about how your husband was obviously by your side and you had another couple that was working with you. It sounds like you know how to surround yourself with people. And you don't have much of an ego about it because a lot of people in your position would say, well, I know everything. I can do it all. That never really phased you?
- [28:25]
Bobby Brown
I know what I don't know. And I think because I was never a good student, like, you know, school was not my thing, I struggled. You know, I'm purely a visual, creative person that happens to have a lot of common sense and street smarts, just like a lot of entrepreneurs. I'm also really kind of in A weird way, sensible, you know, coming from Chicago, I'm just very like, no, tell me yes or no. When could we do this? How much is it going to cost? Should we do it? So I'm really practical where a lot of entrepreneurs have, like, you know, big ideas and, you know, it doesn't make sense. Why. Why are people spending all this money having these fabulous influencer dinners that cost 10,000, 50,000 for what? I'll invite people to my backyard and I'll have, you know, I'll barbecue and have, you know, a different experience. And you get the same roi.
- [29:22]
John Davids
You. I mean, listen, a lot of people don't realize, I gotta tell you, like, people even, even right now, like, you're sit, you got your headphones on, you're talking to me. It looks like you're in your office or your family room. I talk to so many people at your level who are just obsessed with the look of this and the sound of that. And I say, guys, it's just a conversation. It's just about the quality of the conversation. Just in your case, it's the quality of the product. It's not about the packaging and everything else.
- [29:48]
Bobby Brown
Right. And just in general, I never forget when someone said authenticity is the trend. I'm like, what does that mean? I've been authentic my whole life. Like, I tried. I tried to be other, other than who I was, and it didn't work. And when I realized I just got to be myself, it works. And, you know, I. I don't know. I don't. I don't know. I don't stress about things I can't change. I. Look, I want to be better. I want to, you know, I want to keep growing. I want the same or better quality. I want all these things. I don't like to waste time, money, or energy.
- [30:27]
John Davids
You started on TikTok, I think, not that long ago. And how have you found social media? In launching this business and in running this business versus never having it for the first 25 years?
- [30:40]
Bobby Brown
Right. Well, I mean, look, I was. I'm a social media, you know, aficionado, I guess. I spend a lot of time on Instagram. It. It soothes me, it calms me down. I'm not afraid of it. I've hopped on different social media things, you know, and I'm not on them anymore because, you know, you hear about it. You try it. Oh, sure. Threads. Let me try it. You know, whatever. And there's all the. What was the one that was like, the real or something? I'm like, no, no, no, no. So I'm not afraid of it. Whatever. I do love Instagram because I'm a visual being, but I also realized I can go on Instagram and ask a question and get an answer instantly without spending a lot of money hiring one of those companies that does, you know, all the, whatever it's called, the testing and, you know, ask people's opinions. And, you know, I've had people come to me and say, well, this is the data. I'm like, well, who did they ask? They asked 30 people. I'm like, who are these 30 people? Like, I could ask 50 people. I could ask, you know, a thousand people. Like, so, you know, that's. I just think social media is a great way to get your message out there, to visualize what you're trying to do to get people's opinion. I mean, if I go and ask what color something you want me to do, I will get. I get overwhelmed. But I get so much information that guess what I do? I go to my product development team and ask, you know, the youngest, newest person on the brand, can you please go into my Instagram and write down all the different things that people said? Because I know they're. I won't have the focus to go back and look at it again.
- [32:24]
John Davids
And is it also a big business driver? I mean, if you announce a new product on social media, I'd imagine that boosts sales big time, right?
- [32:32]
Bobby Brown
Oh, yeah, of course it does. And you know, if my, if my son, who's our cmo, who was our digital growth guy, was here, he would tell you how difficult it is becoming and how much more it's costing to acquire customers and all that stuff. Okay, great. That's his department. My department is I get the message out. People know something's coming tomorrow and we do. Like, there's a Jones Road account, which I don't touch. There's the Just Bobby, which I am the only one that does it, except when my assistant helps me on something and sometimes we do collab things and I know I have a pretty big audience, especially when you put the two together.
- [33:16]
John Davids
So it goes a long way.
- [33:18]
Bobby Brown
Yeah.
- [33:19]
John Davids
Do you have a sort of. It's a dumb question, I know, but do you have like a five year vision with this business or it's like just day by day?
- [33:26]
Bobby Brown
It's not day by day, but it's. I don't have a five year old. I mean, I know, you know, we had a calendar meeting yesterday, which is, are my favorite meetings because we just had a room with all of the product that we've been working on, we have it by months, and then, you know, eventually it kind of get less things on trays. But I think we have product in the pipeline. We talked about 27 yesterday, you know, like, where we're putting. And then, you know, I. Since I come from experience, I have the most experience of anyone that works here. We have a, you know, an amazing team, but a pretty young team. Like, I know, you know, the difficulty of anniversarying. You do something so magic, and then a year later you're like, why are we down? And so you have to kind of figure things out because you just. You can't just keep doing the same thing. You have to reinvent it. Whether it's a different color packaging or a certain bag that goes with it or a new color makeup. Like, so I love those kind of meetings. So I know what we're doing the next year and a half. We're not for sale. I'm not looking for investments. I'm not looking for a strategic partner. And, you know, there's lots of people that come to my door and through people and want to meet. And I just. I don't even take the meetings because it's a waste of time right now.
- [34:48]
John Davids
I was going to say, you must. I mean, it took four years the first time. I'd imagine it took four hours the second time. As soon as you launch Jones Road, someone's going to want to buy you.
- [34:57]
Bobby Brown
Yeah, well, I mean, we've. We've not had, like, where someone calls and says, here's $2 billion. Okay, well, then I would. You would get my attention. So I don't know. But. But, you know, and also, my biggest thing is if I sold Jones Road, what would I do? You know, I'm. I'm 68 years old. This is my hobby. This is my happy place. You know, besides hanging with my granddaughter, who's my best friend, and, you know, it's like, this is what I do. I would go out of my mind. I would start another business. But I love this one so much.
- [35:31]
John Davids
Yeah, well, you don't look 68, by the way. I have to say that for all those who are listening and not watching, it reminds me of. There's a quote by Mark Zuckerberg when he was offered early on to sell Facebook for a billion dollars. He said, well, if I sold it, I would just start a new social network. And I kind of like the one I have now, so I'll just keep this one. And I get that vibe from You. I take it you don't really have hobbies. I mean, your whole life has been making product and doing makeup. Do you do other things?
- [35:59]
Bobby Brown
Of course I do. First of all, I have a really happy marriage of 37 years, so I spend a lot of time with my husband, and especially the kids are grown and out of the house. Our three kids are incredibly close to us. We spend a lot of time with them. We have really good friends that we love that we meet for dinner and on occasion, travel with. So I'm pretty busy that way. Again, I have my granddaughter and now a new grandson who's three months old. And they're in my town, and I see them all the time. And I walk, I exercise, I. I do weights. I have things on my list I want to do. They're not. I don't play tennis. I don't play pickle. I don't play cards. I don't needlepoint. So my hobbies are. I. I say I don't have hobbies. I don't garden. I love organizing. Like, for me, I could literally open a drawer or closet. You would walk in my house, think it's the most organized thing. I always see things that could be better. So I recently started hiring an organizer to come in and do little projects. And there is nothing better, I think, because I'm so overwhelmed and busy all the time. If I can open up a drawer or cabinet and it's all neat and, like, you know, compartmentalized, I feel calm.
- [37:21]
John Davids
Do you run Jones Road today as a family business? You mentioned your son is the cmo. You know, you're. What's your title? Are you the chief Creative officer?
- [37:30]
Bobby Brown
I'm the chief creative officer and founder. I remind everyone, everybody, that I'm not just the chief creative officer. But it wasn't set out to be a family business. I started Bobby Brown with my husband. I started this lipstick thing with my husband. So it's not an, you know, he does his own thing. It is just his side hustle. So when Joan and Steven is really the one that pushed me for Jones Road, he said, you got this. Well, you know, I'll. We'll. We'll start it with just, you know, this much money. Well, here's an office space. He's a developer. He's like, here's your office. Here's this. We got this. Oh, you want a store? I have an available space. So he's my dream catcher. He is chairman, the unofficial chairman of our board. We have two other friends on our board besides my son. Who's the CEO and our COO of the company?
- [38:24]
John Davids
Do you have investors, or is it just. Is it just.
- [38:26]
Bobby Brown
You don't have any investors? We don't have any investors. And we literally paid ourselves back in the first couple months after we launched Jones Road. It's, you know, look, this is not a normal thing. I mean, I come from, you know, a lot of experience and success, and we kind of somehow did the right things, you know, with Jones Road, which you would never expect would be the right things, you know, like. Like when you get your first product from Jones Road, it comes in a paper lunch bag. You know, it's. Because it was. You know, it was inexpensive, it was cute, it was cool. You could reuse it and bring your lunches to work. And now it's become this cult thing. People wait for us to launch a new version of the lunch bag, you know, that basically cost under a dollar to make.
- [39:14]
John Davids
But I think that that goes to your aesthetic, and this is what I hope everyone listening gets out of this. You actually made it a part of your brand. It was natural skin tones. You know, you wanted a lipstick that made it look like you weren't wearing a lipstick. You do your social media and your aesthetic in a way that it's. It's very girl next door. It's. It's very attainable, and that's actually worked for you, such that it's actually become a part of your brand. You said people wait for this lunch bag, you know, as opposed to waiting for something super expensive and fancy, right?
- [39:45]
Bobby Brown
Yeah. You know, people like what. They can't guess, first of all. So, you know, you can't go into a store and get this bag unless we have certain kits that we offer. So it's. To me, I love the. I love the creative process of figuring out what we could do or try to, you know, to. To get a win, whatever it is, you know, and. And it's interesting. And, you know, we do. It's. I think of it with everything. I mean, from. From. You know, my kids were little, doing their birthday parties. That was like my brain putting all the things, the creative things, the pieces together. And it's. With. When we have a tough month, we all sit down and say, all right, now what are we going to do? And we're like, all right, what's in the hopper? What's this? What if we do this? What if we pull that out and then you try it and hopefully it works.
- [40:31]
John Davids
Well, Bobby, it's been working for you, and I so appreciate you joining me today and sharing the story.
- [40:36]
Bobby Brown
Aw, thank you. It was a pleasure. You're very good at this. You're very good at this.
- [40:41]
John Davids
Thanks so much. Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed this video episode. If you did leave a rating or review on Apple or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, it helps other people find the show and it lets us know that we're doing something right. We'll talk to you guys next time.