Podcast Summary: Making It with Jon Davids, Episode 220
Title: This Is 100% AI... and they fooled everyone | with SoundCloud CEO, Eliah Seton
Date: October 14, 2025
Guest: Eliah Seton, CEO of SoundCloud
Host: Jon Davids
Main Theme & Purpose
This episode dives deep into the world of AI-generated music, synthetic artists, and the transformation of music discovery and creation through technology. Jon Davids interviews Eliah Seton, CEO of SoundCloud, exploring how AI is disrupting the music industry, nurturing both artists and fans, and redefining how aspiring musicians can break through. The show also unveils how SoundCloud leverages AI-driven tools, its evolving business model, and the parallels between entrepreneurship and modern music stardom.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Velvet Sundown Phenomenon & AI-Generated Music
[01:04]
- Jon introduces Velvet Sundown, a mysterious psych-rock band that skyrocketed to streaming fame, dropping four albums in a month (unheard of for a new act).
- Suspicion arises: They have no prior digital footprint or real-world presence. The story escalates when both the band and their “spokesperson” are revealed as AI-generated.
- Eventually, the band admits they are a "synthetic music project guided by human creative direction... composed, voiced, and visualized with the support of artificial intelligence."
[03:02] Eliah Seton:
“Ultimately, AI, generative AI tools hold the promise of unlocking a tremendous amount of opportunity for human artists. The critical thing that we need to take into account... is ensuring that it doesn't get in the way of human artistry and replace human artistry.”
— Eliah Seton (03:22)
- Eliah positions SoundCloud as “artist-first,” using AI to democratize music creation, but emphasizes human connection will always be central to music’s impact.
2. AI as the New Sampling
[08:17]
- Jon likens modern generative AI to sampling in the late '80s and '90s: disruptive at first, but ultimately normalized through legal and commercial frameworks.
[08:45] Eliah Seton:
“There needs to be a legal framework and a commercial framework to protect those artists’ rights. … There are generative AI companies and tools and products and features that are doing it right, that are licensing content to train on…”
— Eliah Seton (09:35)
- AI music tools (Soundful, Fader, Tuni, etc.) are likened to instruments (like keyboards or Auto-Tune) and can radically increase the number of creators, making music-making accessible to anyone.
3. Copyright, Legal Battles & Platform Responsibility
[11:15]
- Discussion about OpenAI’s “Sora” and how generative AI blurs the line between creation and copyright infringement.
- The Supreme Court is expected to weigh in on whether LLMs can train on copyrighted works and if output that resembles existing IP is permissible.
[12:33] Eliah Seton:
- SoundCloud is a two-sided marketplace: it must handle both creators and fans responsibly.
- Platform integrity is challenged by bots and fraudulent stream inflation, but the aim remains discovering and promoting authentic, independent talent.
4. SoundCloud as Discovery Engine & Two-Sided Marketplace
[14:09]
- SoundCloud’s core differentiator: over 400 million tracks, much of it unique, user-generated content (UGC).
- 85% of listening time is for content unavailable anywhere else; users are “cratediggers” of digital music.
[16:50] Eliah Seton:
“More than half of listening time is against new music. … On a traditional streaming platform, that same metric is about 15%. So we are truly unique …”
- AI is central in matching artists’ tracks with potential fans, creating a “meritocracy.” If a song gets early engagement, AI pushes it to more listeners; otherwise, it fades away.
[18:18]
- AI analyzes metadata, genre, BPM, listener behavior ("save," "skip," "repost," "share") to place emerging artists in front of the right audience.
- Tools like exclusive content, DMs, and supporter features are on the roadmap to deepen artist–fan relationships.
5. Breakout Artists and AI Discovery
[21:46]
- SoundCloud alumni: Billie Eilish, Lil Nas X, Post Malone, Chance the Rapper—all started as unknowns on the platform.
- The “Creator Network Map” visually represents evolving scenes, genres, and artists, helping the platform spot emerging talent in real time.
[23:57] Eliah Seton:
“We often say what’s next in music is first on SoundCloud... we have something called the Creator Network Map … it’s a living, breathing, pulsing heatmap of music today.”
6. Artist Success = Entrepreneurship
[30:15]
- Jon draws a parallel between today’s breakout artists and entrepreneurs: today’s stars must master digital marketing, social platforms (like TikTok), and their own brand storytelling.
- The case of Connor Price: a rapper who went viral on TikTok by blending music with storytelling and collaborations, showing DIY artists can break through without traditional industry gatekeepers.
[32:06] Eliah Seton:
“We like to say you snack at TikTok, you have your meal at SoundCloud. … Artists need to engage with these various platforms to make a career.”
- Streaming revenue is not enough for most artists; SoundCloud focuses on building multiple revenue models: subscriptions for creators, deeper fan monetization, vinyl on demand, exclusive access, tipping, etc.
7. Future Monetization & Middle-Class Artists
[38:11]
- The power of superfans: True fans will spend on experiences, collectibles (like the Keith Richards boxset), vinyl, tickets, and special access.
- Early experiments show artists can earn 10x–50x streaming revenue from single product drops (like exclusive vinyl).
[41:47] Eliah Seton:
“Where I think the future is going is a much broader middle class of artists who … have a lot more alternatives... rather than three or four doors... countless doors they could possibly walk through.”
- Twitch reference: as few as ~183 superfans can support an artist’s livelihood. The next era is about enabling more artists—not megastars— to thrive.
8. Artist Recommendations & Discovery in Action
[43:12]
- Eliah recommends Leila, an 18-year-old hip hop/R&B artist who broke out on SoundCloud using AI-powered discovery tools.
- Also shouts out Penny and Sparrow (singer-songwriter, “Eloise”).
[44:55] Eliah Seton:
“On our buzzing playlists... playlists devoted to these totally new, unsigned artists who are getting all this traction organically. … She [Leila] started bleeping, the alarms were going off. Something’s going on here.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On AI and human artistry:
“While Velvet Sundown may have been synthetic, the listeners and fans aren’t synthetic. We are humans with ears and hearts … we want a connection to an artist.”
— Eliah Seton (05:28) -
On the music discovery paradigm:
“You snack at TikTok, you have your meal at SoundCloud.”
— Eliah Seton (32:09) -
On middle-class musicianship:
“Streaming has suppressed the ability of that superfan to really support those artists. … In early experiments, artists are able to make 10, 20, 50 times what they would in streaming for a year through the release of one product.”
— Eliah Seton (39:43) -
On the music industry’s next chapter:
“That will be the revenue model that defines the next chapter of the music industry. We think we are in a prime position to define that. … We’re positioned to pioneer that.”
— Eliah Seton (42:41)
Key Timestamps
- 01:04 – Intro to Velvet Sundown, an entirely AI-generated band
- 03:02 – Eliah’s take on AI & democratization of music
- 08:17 – AI versus sampling: legal and creative frameworks
- 11:15 – Copyright, Sora, and generative AI
- 14:09 – SoundCloud’s platform evolution & unique content
- 18:18 – How AI powers artist discovery and playlists
- 21:46 – Major artists who started on SoundCloud; the Creator Network Map
- 30:15 – Parallels between entrepreneurship & music careers; spotlight on Connor Price
- 32:06 – Why “streaming is not enough”; expanding artist revenue options
- 38:11 – The future: superfans, new monetization models, the middle class of musicians
- 43:12 – New artist spotlights: Leila, Penny and Sparrow
Tone & Style
The episode is conversational, energetic, and future-focused, blending industry insight with actionable advice. The language is accessible but industry-savvy, appealing to creators, entrepreneurs, and anyone interested in tech’s impact on creativity.
Summary
This episode peels back the curtain on the meteoric rise of AI-generated music and the evolving landscape for artists and fans. Jon Davids and Eliah Seton explore how AI is not just disrupting, but also democratizing music. SoundCloud, with its massive catalog and AI-powered discovery tools, champions independent artists and new forms of fan connection and monetization. The success stories of Billie Eilish, Lil Nas X, and emerging artists like Leila illustrate that anyone with talent and hustle can “make it”—as long as they embrace technology and community. The future isn’t just about the next superstar, but about building a thriving middle class of artists, opening doors for musical entrepreneurship on a scale never before possible.