Episode Summary:

Making It with Jon Davids – Ep. 231: "This Is Why Your Company Will Fail"
Guest: Daniel Rowles (Host of Digital Marketing Podcast)
Release: November 28, 2025

Overview

In this engaging episode, Jon Davids sits with Daniel Rowles, acclaimed digital marketing podcast host, to dissect the evolving reasons behind company failures in today’s hyper-competitive, AI-fueled business landscape. The conversation spans everything from the shifting sources of disruption in markets, the two-edged role of AI, the re-emergence of creativity over pure metrics, to the enduring mystery of marketing attribution. Jon and Daniel provide candid insights, compelling anecdotes, and actionable lessons for founders and marketers navigating 2025 and beyond.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Who’s Disrupting Whom? The Shift from Startups to Incumbents

• [00:19–02:21]
  • Daniel Rowles highlights a dramatic industry trend: whereas startups used to be responsible for most market disruption, established incumbents now account for a larger share.
  • Quote [00:19, Daniel]:
    “It used to be … about 70% of business disruption … was done by startups. … What’s now interesting … is 72% of market disruption is now by industry incumbents.”
  • Startups are failing faster due to a flood of easy-to-launch, often poorly thought-through ideas, with AI lowering barriers but also leading to shallow innovation.
  • Existing companies must rapidly innovate just to stay relevant—especially in sectors where barriers to entry are falling (e.g., training businesses).

2. The Double-Edged Sword of AI

• [02:22–04:44]
  • Jon and Daniel discuss how AI brings opportunities but also fosters “laziness and over-reliance,” producing uninspired, robotic content.
  • Quote [03:05, Jon]:
    “People are getting ahead of their skis. I think AI will get there in two, three, four years. But these days people use it as though it's like the smartest friend … it’s really not there yet.”
  • Companies succeeding with AI are those investing in learning to properly “teach” the tech—embedding voice, tone, and brand guidelines.
  • Daniel’s Superpower Insight [03:28]:
    “If there’s one big superpower for companies … it’s that culture of learning … it’s ongoing. … You can’t have a culture of innovation without having a culture of learning.”

3. From Math to Magic: Why Creativity is the New Differentiator

• [05:20–06:48]
  • Jon predicts a “leaning into the creative” in marketing, away from solely quantitative focus (CPMs, CPCs, etc.).
  • Quote [05:20, Jon]:
    “For the longest time, it was all about what’s the cpc, what’s the cost per conversion. … But … creative is really winning the day.”
  • Organic reach now heavily favors compelling, well-crafted content over simply having large audiences or big ad budgets.
  • “All those fuzzy words”—brand, community, creativity—are proving their (sometimes uncapturable) value.

4. Why Marketing Attribution is (Still) an Illusion

• [06:48–11:18]
  • Daniel describes how platform changes and user behavior (“no click environment”) have made traditional attribution modeling unreliable.
  • Quote [08:15, Daniel]:
    “So suddenly this solution … Everything in digital marketing has gone. Because attribution modeling just doesn’t give us the level of insight it used to.”
  • Jon dubs this the “attribution mirage”:
    [09:09, Jon]:
    “They saw the billboard, … the friend who told them about it, and then … clicked. … It’s the old expression, 50% of my marketing doesn’t work. I just don’t know which half yet. … There’s a whole lot of missing information.”
  • Daniel shares Kieran’s succinct take:
    [09:52, Daniel]:
    “Really what you’re doing is measuring the least wrong thing. … Because really, what you’re trying to do is work out how somebody’s head works.”
  • Anecdote: A brand sees a 2000% sales spike, tries to attribute it to digital campaigns, but the real driver was a brief national newspaper mention—a reminder that not everything is (or can be) tracked.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the importance of brand fundamentals:
  [01:56, Daniel] “You’ve got to adopt this kind of innovation process … but also need to go back to the old school as well, which is to say, what’s our brand? What do we stand for? What do our customers actually want?”
• On creativity trumping algorithms:
  [06:30, Jon] “You’d have to spend a ton of money to get this kind of reach through paid and you’re able to do it organically … So I think a move to leaning on creative … that’s something I see happening a lot more in 2025.”
• On the enduring challenge of marketing measurement:
  [09:52, Daniel] “Really what you're doing is measuring the least wrong thing.”
• On the culture of innovation:
  [03:44, Daniel] “You can’t have a culture of innovation without having a culture of learning.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:19 — Incumbents now driving disruption, not just startups (Daniel)
• 02:22 — AI’s promise and perils; culture of learning (Jon & Daniel)
• 05:20 — Creative vs. quantitative marketing; the power of content (Jon)
• 06:48 — Attribution gets harder in a ‘no-click’ digital environment (Daniel)
• 09:09 — The “attribution mirage” and seeing only a sliver of the customer journey (Jon)
• 09:52 — Anecdote: National press mention trumps all analytics (Daniel)

Overall Takeaways

• Disruption isn’t just for startups: Established companies are adapting quickly and can be just as threatening as the next scrappy upstart.
• AI’s utility depends on company culture: The winners will be those who invest in learning, training, and using AI as a creative tool—not a lazy shortcut.
• Creativity reigns again: Modern platforms and consumer behavior are shifting the power back to well-crafted, engaging content, echoing the “old school” marketing of decades past.
• Marketing measurement is more art than science: Attribution remains elusive; trusting intuition and creativity is becoming more important alongside data.

Perfect for:
Entrepreneurs, marketing teams, business leaders, and creatives interested in how disruption, technology, and marketing are evolving—and what it really takes to avoid failure in this next era.