← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Al Roker’s Holiday Traditions from Your Mama's Kitchen
00:40:09
In the spirit of the holiday season and all the time we'll spend sharing meals with loved ones this month, Hoda Kotb is sharing something special with you. It's a podcast called Your Mama’s Kitchen, all about cuisine and culture, ingredients and identities, and the meals and memories that make us who we are. Host Michele Norris talks to guests like Michelle Obama, Glennon Doyle, José Andrés, and more about the complexities of family life and how our earliest culinary experiences shape our lives. And of course, each guest shares a recipe for a favorite dish from their youth so you can taste a bit of their story. In this episode, Al Roker shares his holiday traditions, new and old, plus tips on how to perfect his mama’s oxtail stew with dumplings. You can find more Your Mama’s Kitchen at https://lnk.to/yourmamaskitchen!makingspace
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- [00:01]
Al Roker
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- [00:32]
Al Roker
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- [00:41]
Michelle Norris
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- [00:42]
Al Roker
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- [01:03]
Hoda Kotb
Hey guys, Hoda Kotba here. From today we have something special for you. In the spirit of the holiday season and all the time we spend sharing meals and laughs and memories with loved ones, I would like to share something with you. It's an episode of your Mama's Kitchen. This podcast is all about cuisine and culture and the meals and memories that make us who we are. Each episode begins with one simple yet profound request. Tell me about your Mama's Kitchen. And from there, beautiful stories unfold in this episode of youf Mama's Kitchen Kitchen host Michelle Norris is joined by a very special guest and my dear friend, Mr. Al Roker. He shares his holiday traditions, new and old, plus a very special family recipe. I know you'll love this conversation as much as I do.
- [01:57]
Al Roker
We didn't have a lot of money, but you shared yourself through food. If tragedy befell one of your neighbors, there was a corningware dish of something that went to that neighbor. There was always an opportunity to bring something to somebody, whether it was if one of the neighborhood kids was sick, a plate of brownies, or something like that.
- [02:27]
Michelle Norris
Welcome to your Mama's Kitchen, the podcast that explores how we're shaped as a dinner by the kitchens we grew up in as kids. I'm Michelle Norris. Today I spoke to someone whose name is synonymous with the Thanksgiving holiday for American families, the television legend Al Roker. If you've ever tuned in to watch the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. You've probably witnessed his radiating personality and infectious smile as he ushers in the next big float or the big marching band. He's been on the air for 40 years, predicting the weather on NBC's Today show, winning 14 Emmys and earning the nickname America's Weatherman. He's also created a bit of a food empire of his own, hosting special cooking segments, authoring several cookbooks, and he's even hosted his own podcast called Cooking Up a Storm with Al Roker. All that is to say, he has never been shy about his skills in the kitchen and on the grill. And in this episode, you'll also hear some of his tips about how to make the perfect waffle. Now, before he became the charismatic TV personality we all know and love, Al Roker was a shy, bespectacled kid obsessed with comics and audio equipment. In this conversation, we reach back to Elle's childhood in Queens, outside New York City. You'll hear about how his mama cooked for a big family on a tight budget out of a tiny kitchen and how her recipe for Jamaican oxtail stew with dumplings still makes Elle Roker swoon. And since he's hosted the biggest televised Thanksgiving event every year since 1995, we also hear about what the holiday means to him, especially after he had to sit out his first parade in decades because of a health scare. So in this episode, a dose of gratitude layered with a little nostalgia and served up with a lot of laughter. L. Roker, I'm so glad that you were with us. You spent a lot of time thinking about food through the work that you do at the Today show, We See youe Cook, I Watch youh Today Making tacos. And through your own adventures, your show, your podcast Cooking Up a Storm with Elle Roker, your cookbooks, including the Big Bad Book of Barbecue and your Hassle Free Holiday Cookbook. So you know your way around a kitchen.
- [04:45]
Al Roker
Well, I do like food. You know, I'm married to Deborah Roberts of ABC News, co anchor of 2020, and we are obviously two different people, but when it comes to food, we really are two different people. I mean, if she could subsist on air and water, I think she would be fine. Really, I am just the opposite.
- [05:05]
Michelle Norris
Well, food is the focus of this podcast and so I'm glad that you bring that enthusiasm and that outlook to this cause I'm right there with you. But I'm wondering, what is your favorite meal that was produced in your mama's kitchen and which house was it in? Was it in the house that you were living in when you were born or the house you moved into later on.
- [05:25]
Al Roker
It's interesting you say that because before we had a house, we lived in a couple of different projects. And I don't really remember my mother's cooking. Cause I was maybe. I think we moved into our house when I was 8. And before that it was fairly rudimentary. The house we lived in, that's where I remember holiday meals and people coming over. And before that it was just kind of a blur. And what I remember most, I mean, besides the food. And I don't know what the physical layout of your kitchen is as opposed to your mother's kitchen. My mother's kitchen, we had one oven. There was a four burner cooktop, I think Magic Chef cooktop. And yet she could turn out for 12 people a meal that included baked goods, a turkey and or ham and sides all at the same time. And you know, I'm fortunate, I'm blessed. You know, I've got a great kitchen. I've got a six burner stove, a dual oven, you know, a warm. And I still struggle to get it all out at once.
- [06:34]
Michelle Norris
And probably a microwave and an air fryer too.
- [06:37]
Al Roker
Yeah, I draw the line at the air fryer.
- [06:40]
Michelle Norris
Okay, we're gonna put a pin on that. Cause I love the air fryer.
- [06:43]
Al Roker
Okay. But anyway, not only did I marvel at what she made, but how she was able to make it and seemingly all effortlessly.
- [06:52]
Michelle Norris
So you grew up in a neighborhood called St. Albans? Yes, In Queens. You had five siblings. So there were six of you in the household with your mom and D. This sounds like a household that probably was a little bit loud, Had a lot going on.
- [07:07]
Al Roker
Yeah, we got calls from the airport to keep it down.
- [07:12]
Michelle Norris
So I'm wondering if you could go back in time and space and describe the kitchen and what it looked like. Take me inside that space.
- [07:22]
Al Roker
Well, we lived in a three bedroom, semi attached house on a corner lot in Queens in St. Albans. You know, you walked in the front door, there was the living room. If you kept going a little to the left, there was a very small dining room. Somehow though, my mother managed to cram in a breakfront hutch, a dining table and 12 chairs. There were also two extensions that would go in it. And then if you went straight, there was a small kitchen that had literally enough space for a very small kitchen table that could seat four people. There was a Frigidaire refrigerator that was yellowish color. There was a matching stove or oven, I should say in A cabinet and then there was a four top burner and then a sink and no dishwasher. And, you know, the window looked out onto the backyard, which was a postage stamp with a carport in the back. But that was the kitchen. And if you had three people in.
- [08:28]
Michelle Norris
There, you were crowded and you had a big family.
- [08:31]
Al Roker
Yes.
- [08:32]
Michelle Norris
So your mother and father. Your father is Bahamian, is that correct? His family is from the Bahamas.
- [08:37]
Al Roker
Yes. First generation Bahamian.
- [08:39]
Michelle Norris
And your mother's family's from Jamaica?
- [08:41]
Al Roker
Yep, Jamaica and New York, or I should say Boston.
- [08:45]
Michelle Norris
Was this a kitchen that had a very strong West Indian influence?
- [08:49]
Al Roker
You know what it did and it didn't, it depended on the day. My mother, like most first generation folk, had her traditional food, but also made American food or food of our neighborhood, which, like our first apartment was in Rockaway. And it was a diverse neighborhood, you know, whites, blacks, Italian, Polish. In fact, I remember my mother when I was a baby, hard to believe, didn't eat very much. And she was talking to a neighbor who was Italian, and she said, oh, you know what you should try? There's this wonderful breakfast pasta called pastina, and it's noodles that are cut up very, very, very small. She said, you should try giving that to your son. And so my mother did. And I kept spitting it out, spitting it out and spitting it out. My mother runs into her neighbor a few days later and she goes, he just won't eat it. And the woman said to my mother, well, how long are you cooking it for? And my mother looked at her and said, oh, you're supposed to cook it. So that going for me, but you know, spaghetti and meatballs and look, my family was also, as many of the people in the neighborhood were, because it was a project, you know, middle to lower middle income. And so there was a lot of food that you could stretch a budget. You know, spaghetti and meatballs or meatloaf or, you know, the things that we look at, we call comfort food. I mean, my mom, you know, one of my favorite meals that she would make would be oxtail stew. Back then, oxtails were poor people food. You know, nobody was serving oxtails at restaurants unless you could find a Jamaican restaurant. Yeah. So I remember my mother being upset with, I think it was Bobby Flay. I can't remember who it was, but back in the 90s, all of a sudd oxtail became hot. You know, these high end chefs were cooking with oxtails. And my mother was just. I walked into the house one day and she said, you know, those people on The Food Network. I hate them. I said, okay, mom, why? Well, because they're making these recipes with oxtail, and now oxtail's gone through the roof. I said, okay, well, I'll be sure to bring that up next time I see somebody from the Food Network. I was like, okay. Because my mother wasn't a gourmet cook. She was, you know, she was feeding in quantity. There were eight people in the family, except. And I don't know about your mom, I could probably count on one hand growing up that I actually saw her eat. She was always getting up and back and forth, and she'd sit, and then she'd get up again, which was why she was so small.
- [11:31]
Michelle Norris
Tell me about your mom. What was her name? And did she have a kitchen personality? Was she different in the kitchen than she was in the workplace or when she went to church or when she went elsewhere?
- [11:42]
Al Roker
Her name was Isabel Bernadette Smith. She was the second youngest of nine in the kitchen. Basically, my mother was pretty much the same person, whether in the kitchen out of the. She was a very dominant personality. But it's not like she kept us out of the kitchen. It was just logistical. There just wasn't a lot of room in the kitchen, so we just kind of stayed out. Chin asked for help, and he didn't volunteer it. Because if you got into the kitchen, odds are you would be dragooned into dishwashing duty or dish drying duty. So if you could stay out of her line of sight, you were probably better off. But, no, she was, you know, she was a personality, if you will. She would create personalities. Like, she would kind of tell my friends that she used to be an opera singer. Well, she wasn't an opera singer. I mean, she sang in church. Or she would create, like, gibberish languages. Just create phrases, and we're like, what is she talking about? You know, we had no idea.
- [12:47]
Michelle Norris
Like pig Latin or something, or just like.
- [12:49]
Al Roker
Yes, but not, you know, just like she. I remember she'd go, shamil and bleveg, and it's like, what is that, Mom? I don't know. I mean, you just accept what your mother says and does. So we just kind of. That was Isabel or Izzy. Everybody called her Izzy.
- [13:04]
Michelle Norris
Ah.
- [13:06]
Al Roker
You know, she was a character, you know. But when it came to food, I remember early on there was a Fe Fannie Farmer cookbook, but for the most part, she wasn't following recipes. She kind of made it up as she went, or somebody told her a recipe or she saw something in the paper. It was Just what was on sale? What could she get in bulk? I remember my folks had a chest freezer in the basement so that when stuff was on sale at Western Beef in Queens, they could buy a side.
- [13:41]
Michelle Norris
Of beef or big white chest, almost dive into to get to the bottom of it.
- [13:46]
Al Roker
You could put a body in there, basically, you know, if you were. If my parents were the homicidal type, they could have stored somebody in there.
- [13:54]
Michelle Norris
What did you learn about generosity in the kitchen? And I asked this because we've never worked together. We've worked at one point on competing networks. We're both journalists, so I know a lot of people who've worked with you and known you over the years. And the thing that they always say about you is he is exceedingly generous with his time, with his resources, with his advice. So what did you learn about generosity, watching your parents in that kitchen?
- [14:21]
Al Roker
You know, I think it was one of, like, a lot of people, I think we didn't have a lot of money. But you shared yourself through food. If tragedy befell one of your neighbors, there was a corningware dish of something that went to that neighbor. There was always an opportunity to bring something to somebody, whether it was if one of the neighborhood kids was sick, a plate of brownies or something like that. You know, members of my mother's Rosary Society would drop in and you'd hear them talking. And the funny thing was, it was like my mother would, when they weren't there, she'd talk about them like, you know, it was like, oh, that. Mrs. So. And so I said, mom, so why are you going to the Rosary Society if they drive you all crazy? Well, it's very important. You know, it's like, I mean, you know, we do a lot of good work. I said, okay, even though you're ready to kill half of them, but that's all right. I remember my mother was the keeper of the family books. You know, my dad literally came home, put his paycheck on the. This is obviously before we had direct deposit or anything like that. I remember that envelope on the table and my mother doing the books and juggling and, you know, so to the.
- [15:40]
Michelle Norris
Point where was at the kitchen table, he. That she'd be sitting at the kitchen.
- [15:44]
Al Roker
Table and she'd just be sitting there and do. Again, because the table was so small, things tended to happen more adjacent to the kitchen or in the dining room. And that was like some of my memories of my mother going back and forth between the kitchen and the dining room, which was literally 10 steps that's where everything really, in a sense, happened, whether it was Friday night board games, playing Monopoly or Scrabble. A lot of Scrabble. You know, my mother was a big believer in words and reading. And we would pop popcorn or a big bowl of. And I don't know why this started, but a big bowl of in shell salted peanuts. I don't know why, but yeah, now.
- [16:27]
Michelle Norris
That sounds delicious, but kind of messy.
- [16:29]
Al Roker
Yes. Yeah, but we each had a bowl and there you go.
- [16:33]
Michelle Norris
I want to return to something you said. That scene where your dad would come home from work and put the paycheck on the table. That is not uncommon, but it's not something that I think is well understood in American life, that there was a time when men were seen as the primary breadwinner. And there was an assumption that they handled the finances, that since they often brought home the most money, that they made the decisions about how that money was spent, what was put away, what investments did they make in their children's future. And putting a little bit here and there for the holidays or maybe for a family vacation. But in a lot of households, that was actually the mother, that was actually the woman in the household that was making those decisions. Can you talk a little bit about that?
- [17:17]
Al Roker
Yes. You know, it's funny, as I'm getting older, the memories are getting fuzzy. You know, my dad's been gone for over 20 years. My mom's been gone for 15. But I seem to recall early on in their marriage, when I was very small, he mismanaged the money and so she took it over. What I learned equally from them was a. My mother's frugality. But I also, I think, inherited my father's entrepreneurial side, if you will. He was a bus driver, but he also, I think he actually. Because again, he didn't have to do it constantly for the family. He liked to cook. And he and a couple of buddies at the depot, because there was no lunchroom, a cafeteria kind of thing, they created their own lunchroom, in a sense. And so they would cook for. When my father wasn't on his shift, he'd come in early, depending on whatever shift he was, and would do lunches for the other bus drivers.
- [18:16]
Michelle Norris
Wait. At the depot.
- [18:17]
Al Roker
At the depot.
- [18:18]
Michelle Norris
Really?
- [18:19]
Al Roker
Yeah. They carved out an area. He and I think it was three other buddies, and they created a lunchroom. And so he always had a little bit of a side hustle. And then with my uncle, they had a little bit of a. And if they were better businessmen, they might have made more Of a go with this, but they had a bit of a moving company. But you know, I think a 40 hour week plus the food and trying to do moving was something I had to give. So he gave up the moving. But so from both of them I inherited, I think, something that's led me to where I am today.
- [18:53]
Michelle Norris
What was an 8 year old Al Roker like?
- [18:55]
Al Roker
I was and still am. I was pretty shy.
- [18:59]
Michelle Norris
That's hard to believe. Cause you're so outgoing now.
- [19:01]
Al Roker
Yeah, I was not like the class clown. I was, you know, a chunky kid. I wore glasses. I wouldn't consider myself one of the popular kids, but I had a sense of humor and I could draw. And I loved comics, comic strips, comic books. And so I would draw comics of my. I went to a Catholic school of some of the nuns and priests and classmates. And I was always interested in media. My mother said When I was 6 or 7, I described live TV shows as dry shows and filmed TV shows as wet.
- [19:38]
Michelle Norris
Oh, that's interesting. You understood even then.
- [19:40]
Al Roker
Yeah. And one of the things about a bus depot is that there would be a number of items that people would come to sell that quote fell off the back of a truck.
- [19:52]
Michelle Norris
This is a podcast, so people can't see the air quotes that you just got.
- [19:55]
Al Roker
Yeah, the air quotes that fell off.
- [19:56]
Michelle Norris
The back of the truck. Yeah, yeah. That were procured in interesting ways.
- [20:01]
Al Roker
Yes, in interesting and nefarious ways. And so my dad would. I remember him bringing home when I was 11, a 3M Wallensack reel to reel tape recorder. And this is before eight track, before cassettes. And I would read up on stuff. And I figured out that if you took the back of the TV set off and you ran wires from the speaker leads into the line end of the recorder, you could record audio off the television. And so I would record TV shows and then I'd bring my mother down to the basement. I said, you've gotta hear this. I just spliced together the theme from Batman and the theme from Superman. And of course I was oblivious to this look of just abject terror on her face. Like, this kid's never leaving this basement. He will be with us for the rest of his life. But you know, so that was. And she'd bring down a grilled cheese sandwich. And in fact, speaking of television and food, there was a comedian, I don't know if you're old enough to remember him, a TV comedian named Soupy Sales.
- [21:06]
Michelle Norris
Oh, I remember Soupy Sales. Yeah.
- [21:08]
Al Roker
And Soupy Sales, he was famous for getting A pie in the face. But early on, he had a kid's show, a daily kid show in the afternoon at 12 noon on the ABC stations. And every day at the beginning of the show, he would tell kids what he was having for lunch. And so you could have lunch with Soupy. And so my mother, a couple, two or three times a week would make. And it was always like a ham sandwich or grilled cheese sandwich. And my mother would make that lunch for me and I would have lunch with Soupy. Look, that is the. I know I'm jumping around here, but it was really the language of love.
- [21:46]
Michelle Norris
Yeah, Food is love. I gotta go back, though, to the splicing of the tape and grabbing the audio from the back of the television. There are several things that are amazing about that. One, I can hear the mashup of Superman and Batman. And that sounds. You were mixing before people were mixing. So that was interesting. I think it shows extreme genius and intellect on your part. But the thing that is most amazing to me is that your parents let you touch the television.
- [22:12]
Al Roker
Yeah, we had an old set in the basement, an old black and white. Like I said, I was very interested in this. And so with a splicing block and a straight edge razor blade, you could splice stuff together. My sister told me one of the things I used to do was I would go to them and ask them like simple questions like, do you like ice cream? Yes. Do you like going to the doctor? No. And then I would rerecord my questions and splice in their answers and blackmail them. Hey, do you think mom and dad are really kind of stupid? Yes, I do.
- [22:44]
Michelle Norris
Oh, you were a troublemaker.
- [22:47]
Al Roker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I would bribe them. I kind of like blackmail them.
- [22:52]
Michelle Norris
And you would bribe them to do what? You do the dishes for me and I'll never show this to mom and dad.
- [22:56]
Al Roker
Exactly. I'm gonna play this for them. I don't think I ever actually did, but it was the threat.
- [23:02]
Michelle Norris
I'm sorry that I can't reach out to your sibs to hear their version of that story.
- [23:14]
Al Roker
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- [23:42]
Michelle Norris
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- [24:03]
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- [24:16]
Michelle Norris
Hi Georgia, Hi David. What do you think the world needs more of?
- [24:21]
Al Roker
Well, the world always needs more podcasts.
- [24:23]
Michelle Norris
Didn't you used to have a podcast?
- [24:25]
Al Roker
Not only did I used to have.
- [24:26]
Michelle Norris
A podcast, Georgia, it's coming back.
- [24:28]
Al Roker
David Tennant does a podcast with season three. It's coming at you.
- [24:32]
Michelle Norris
Okay. And who are your guests? Who are my guests?
- [24:34]
Al Roker
What about Russell T. Davis?
- [24:35]
Michelle Norris
What about Jamila Jamil?
- [24:37]
Al Roker
What about Stanley the Tooch Tucci?
- [24:40]
Michelle Norris
So it's really just you hanging out with your mates then?
- [24:42]
Al Roker
Yeah.
- [24:43]
Michelle Norris
Come join me.
- [24:44]
Al Roker
David Tennant does a podcast with Bye.
- [24:54]
Michelle Norris
You are, for many of us, a face and a voice associated with Thanksgiving because of your segments on the Today show, because of your role at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. So I'm curious about what that holiday has meant for you over years. What was Thanksgiving like in your childhood home? And how do you celebrate Thanksgiving? Because it must be a complicated day for you now. But let's go first back to St. Albans and what was Thanksgiving like back there?
- [25:25]
Al Roker
I remember and again, growing up in New York City, and this is probably unique to New York City in that there were two broadcasts that happened every Thanksgiving. There was the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. And then right after that, Channel 11, which is an independent station here, would run Laurel and Hardy's March of the Wooden Soldiers. And I'm a big Laurel and Hardy fan. Anyway, I remember, you know, we'd come downstairs and my mother would have a big bowl of fruit and shelled nuts in the living room where our TV was. So we would come down in our pajamas and we'd start watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. And my mother would then start prepping The Thanksgiving meal. Cause we always ate early. And at some point during the parade, we'd go up, we'd get showered, bathed, and get dressed. I mean, not fancy dress, but, you know, shirt and pair of pants and everything. And by now you start to smell the turkey and my mother's making the dressing. And then we'd watch the march of the Wooden Soldiers, which was about 90 minutes. And so by 1:30, that was done. The table was set. And she'd call us in to help set the table. And by 2 o'clock we were having dinner. And I always remember there was always a. At each place setting, there was always a bowl of Del Monte fruit salad there.
- [26:49]
Michelle Norris
Oh, the one with the little maraschino cherry. The little red cherry.
- [26:51]
Al Roker
Yeah, with that little red maraschino cherry that has literally that color. Red does not exist in nature.
- [26:57]
Michelle Norris
I don't know what kind of red dye number 65. They used to get that. But.
- [27:01]
Al Roker
And then we, you know, there would be the blessing of the table and then. And there wasn't enough room on the table so that there was some stuff in the kitchen, some food, you know, and you'd help yourself. It was kind of buffet and boom. And then, you know, you grow up. And the rite of passage as an adult, I'm sure for you as well, is when you have your family and you're prepping Thanksgiving dinner. And again, as you said, it became a little complicated. Cause I'm doing the parade, so what I would do, I prep a lot of stuff at night. And this was teamwork.
- [27:30]
Michelle Norris
And are you the cook or is Deborah the cook who cooks in your family?
- [27:34]
Al Roker
I'm the cook, but Deborah was the facilitator. So while I'm at the parade, I've left a kind of a schedule of what needs to go in when.
- [27:42]
Michelle Norris
Oh, you leave a schedule. So is it written, like on the refrigerator or some sort of text that.
- [27:46]
Al Roker
You give her on a yellow sheet of legal pad? And so Deborah was really responsible. I mean, she was really had the important role till I would get home. Because I'd get home, it ends at. At noon. I get home about 12, 20. You know, we'd have people coming over about 2, 3 o'clock, so. And we'd also have people bring stuff. And about 10 years ago, Deborah and I were having lunch at Bar Ballud on the west side near abc. And Danielle Boulud came in.
- [28:18]
Michelle Norris
Famous chef, we should just say for people. Famous chef, Very famous chef.
- [28:21]
Al Roker
Just not New York, but around the world at this point. Anyway, he came into the restaurant. And he said, what are you doing for Thanksgiving? And I said, well, Danielle, I make it. I did this whole thing. Why don't you come to the restaurant and come to Daniel for Thanksgiving? I said, oh, that's nice. Thank you. And I had no intentions of doing it. And Deborah said, why don't we just try it? And I went. And they had the traditional Thanksgiving meal and then some. And it was like this revelation. It was like the skies parted, the sun came down, shone on this table. And I said, oh, my God, why haven't we done this before? This is spectacular. Oh, my God. And to the point where. And they give you leftovers to take home. So I haven't made a Thanksgiving meal in probably 10 years. Our Thanksgiving tradition is parade, get home, shower, change, and then dinner at Daniel.
- [29:19]
Michelle Norris
Is there anything, though, that you miss? As good a cook as he is, as amazing a chef as he is, is there anything that you miss? The Nothing. Nothing. Not the sweet potatoes with the marshmallows, if that was your thing.
- [29:30]
Al Roker
No. Because you know what we'll do is then that weekend we're blessed. We have a house upstate. We go up either, depending on how early we eat, we may drive up on Thanksgiving Day, certainly on Friday morning. And then I'll make kind of a mini Thanksgiving meal where I'll do a small thing of the sweet potato poon.
- [29:47]
Michelle Norris
Sweet potato poon. Wait a minute. What's that?
- [29:49]
Al Roker
Oh, my gosh. Well, my mother. I guess it's a Southern. She told us it's Southern. I don't know. Anyway, it's basically a crustless sweet potato pie. And so you cook sweet potatoes, mash them down, throw in some baking powder, some flour, salt, pepper, brown sugar, crushed pineapple, vanilla, and you put in a buttered casserole dish, and then you bake it at about 350. And this is a holiday tradition. Thanksgiving tradition. When my mother was making dinner, and when she'd come to my house, she'd make it. It has a marshmallow topping that you brown under the broiler.
- [30:24]
Michelle Norris
Those little mini marshmallows.
- [30:25]
Al Roker
No, no, no.
- [30:26]
Michelle Norris
The big ones.
- [30:26]
Al Roker
Jet puffed big ones. Big ones. So that it gets a nice brown crust on them. But as you know, with marshmallows, if you're not careful, they will burn quickly.
- [30:35]
Michelle Norris
Yeah. Can't take a phone call. Can't turn your back. Gotta stay right there.
- [30:39]
Al Roker
So what has become, as we were, adult children, it would be. Whose job is it this year to distract mom so that the marshmallows catch fire?
- [30:49]
Michelle Norris
Oh, no.
- [30:49]
Al Roker
So she'd have the broiler open and she's watching it and it was like, don't bother me, don't bother me. And so one of us would come in, mom, we need that big serving dish. Where's. And because she couldn't delegate, she said, let me go get it really quick. And then of course, within a minute or two, the smoke alarm is going off and we're all like high fiving each other.
- [31:09]
Michelle Norris
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm on Team mom on this one. This is just.
- [31:14]
Al Roker
Well, that's why we always bought two bags of jet puff marshmallows. Because.
- [31:18]
Michelle Norris
Were you doing that just cause you were bad or were you doing that because some of you actually liked the burnt marshmallow taste?
- [31:24]
Al Roker
No, no, nobody liked the burnt. We just liked it because of the.
- [31:27]
Michelle Norris
You were just mischievous.
- [31:28]
Al Roker
It happened a couple of times and we realized, this is great. We have to keep doing this. This is fantastic. And then she gets so angry, faux angry with us.
- [31:37]
Michelle Norris
You know, it's like it's a holiday. So she'd probably let you slide a little bit more than.
- [31:41]
Al Roker
Exactly. Yeah.
- [31:42]
Michelle Norris
Than she would otherwise.
- [31:43]
Al Roker
Thanksgiving weekend, I will make a dish of the sweet potato poon in her honor.
- [31:47]
Michelle Norris
Poon. P o, o n. P o o n. Okay. Sweet potato poon. I might have to introduce that in our holiday tradition. It sounds delicious.
- [31:54]
Al Roker
Including the burning marshmallows. And you know, and I think you can become a cook or a chef or whatever you want to call it by as much as what your parents didn't do as they did. You know, again, there were six kids, so breakfast was not. Not a leisurely pursuit in our house. So my mother was not great at breakfast. And even before there were Eggo waffles, there was something called downy flake waffles. They were square and, you know, they had frozen waffles. You put them in the toaster. And I remember I was watching some show and when I was a kid, some sitcom or whatever, and the mother was making waffles with a waffle maker. And I was like, transfixed by this. And so I remember thinking, when I'm an adult, I'm never having another frozen waffle as long as I live. And I still have a magic chef waffle maker that's about 30 years old. It's beat to hell. But it makes fantastic waffles. Not those Belgian waffles.
- [32:53]
Michelle Norris
Not the big fat ones.
- [32:54]
Al Roker
Not those. No, no, thin. And the waffle is better than the pancake. The reason why the waffle is better than the pancake is that the pancake is a flat surface. So the syru rolls off, the butter rolls off the waffle has little indentations that can hold those little pools, those golden pools of butter.
- [33:19]
Michelle Norris
And when the butter and the syrup kind of mix together right there and.
- [33:22]
Al Roker
Mix together and you cut it and it just.
- [33:24]
Michelle Norris
I love a good waffle. It gets that nice waffle crisp on it. I'm team waffle.
- [33:27]
Al Roker
It's just a crisp on the outside, a little fluffy. Here's the other trick, the other thing that I've discovered to add to the waffle mix. A couple of scoops of malted milk mix.
- [33:37]
Michelle Norris
Oh, yeah, Yeah, I can see that. I can actually see that. A malted waffle. You know what else you can add to a waffle? A little bit of egg whites that have been whipped. So it's almost like just before they get meringue, and you put a little bit of the egg white in there, and it gives the waffle a little bit of a little fluffiness to it. That house in St. Albans, I actually had. I've seen it. Cause you went back there on an episode, and I remember when you went back on a Today show segment. So I have it in my mind as you talk about it. And I read that your parents paid $100 for the down payment in the early 1960s. I think it was 1963.
- [34:18]
Al Roker
Yep. House was $14,900.
- [34:21]
Michelle Norris
Yeah. And you still own the house. You have a nephew that lives in that house today. That is a story that is almost impossible right now. You know, housing is so expensive. And so at this time of the year, when we're thinking about the bounty of the holidays, when we're thinking about preparing Thanksgiving meals, we should also be mindful of those for whom the kitchen is not a place of plenty.
- [34:46]
Al Roker
Yeah.
- [34:47]
Michelle Norris
And I'm wondering if you have a message of hope or insight for families who struggle to make rent or put food on the table or make the Thanksgiving holiday special when there's just not enough to go around.
- [34:59]
Al Roker
Yeah, it is. The idea that one in four children in this country are food insecure just seems a travesty. There are a number of us that are really blessed and like our church for a long time does a lot of food drives, not just at the holidays, but all during the year. And it seems inconceivable, but that there are so many people now trying to organize not just food drives. But listen, food banks in this day and age have become a necessity and so it's very important that we remember those folks and do what we can. And one of the things that I have a new appreciation. Late last year, during Thanksgiving and Christmas, it's no secret I had a severe medical issue to be completely. I almost died. I didn't know it at the time. Deborah and Leila, my middle girl, were really instrumental in keeping that away from me so I could concentrate. But, you know, I missed Thanksgiving, almost missed Christmas, and I forgot how important those touchstone moments are. And in fact, for Deborah, the first point that she got that maybe I was gonna be okay was that I had another procedure. And coming out of the anesthesia, she was. And she said, how are you feeling? I says, I saw this recipe in the New York Times cooking segment for a spatchcock mayonnaise based turkey. I'm gonna make that for Christmas. And she thought, okay, I think he's gonna make it.
- [36:37]
Michelle Norris
He's back again. He's back with us because that's how.
- [36:40]
Al Roker
Important those moments are. And I realized that we need to take care of other people who are doing okay. But there but for the grace of God go us.
- [36:51]
Michelle Norris
Was the memory of a holiday. In retrospect, do you think that deep in your psyche that that was one of the things that pulled you through? I want another Christmas with my family. I want us all together.
- [37:00]
Al Roker
Yeah, it was. And yeah, I felt, in a sense, badly because I ruined Thanksgiving for the family and I was not going to let that happen for Christmas.
- [37:13]
Michelle Norris
That's being a little hard on yourself though, isn't that, Elle? I mean, you didn't really.
- [37:17]
Al Roker
Yeah, you know, but listen, when you're under pain meds, you go in different places that you might not, but, you know, it was important to me and it gave me something to push for and I made Christmas dinner.
- [37:34]
Michelle Norris
You said that your all time favorite meal that your mom would make is oxtail stew.
- [37:39]
Al Roker
Yes.
- [37:40]
Michelle Norris
I think I heard that it's not just any oxtail stew, it's oxtail stew with dumplings.
- [37:46]
Al Roker
Yes. It's got everything you need in one pot. You got the vegetables, you got the beef, and you've got the starch in these fluffy, dense. And that was what was. Always amazed me that you could have something that was dense yet fluffy at the same time. When I think about her, the perfect meal from her, it would be the oxtail stew, collard greens and a pineapple upside down cake.
- [38:13]
Michelle Norris
Okay, now that is good eating. That sounds.
- [38:15]
Al Roker
Yeah. No, that was her super bowl of food. And it was great because you could make A lot for not a lot of money on a cold day my dad got. When we were like, I was like, 12, he got into baking, and so he started making, like, yeast rolls and bread and cinnamon rolls. And so the perfect day to walk into that house and smell yeast bread baking. My mother's oxtail stew and the overtones of that caramelized pineapple was just about as good as it gets.
- [38:54]
Michelle Norris
Well, we're gonna share the recipe with our listeners. So is there anything that they have to absolutely get right or pay attention to to make sure that they get the right flavor?
- [39:06]
Al Roker
You gotta saute the oxtails first, preferably in a little oil and their own fat. And don't crowd the pot so that they brown well. You really want them browned because that lends the depth of flavor. And try to get the meatiest oxtails you can.
- [39:24]
Michelle Norris
And don't rush it.
- [39:25]
Al Roker
Don't rush it.
- [39:26]
Michelle Norris
This needs to cook low and slow for a while.
- [39:29]
Al Roker
Yeah.
- [39:30]
Michelle Norris
All right. I've loved talking to you. Thanks so much.
- [39:33]
Al Roker
Ah, it's so great to see you, Michel.
- [39:41]
Michelle Norris
That was fun. I liked that conversation. And it was a reminder that we often share the best of ourselves through food. Even when Al Roker's family didn't have much money, they still would make a batch of brownies or a dish of something for their neighbors if they came upon tragedy or if someone was sick. And now, as a fully grown adult with his own money, Elle Roker continues to give to and to recognize families less fortunate than his by participating in food drives and food banks. As we step into this holiday season, as food and family come to the center stage in our lives, it's important to remember to extend generosity to others who may need it this season. Maybe consider donating to your local food bank or volunteering at a food drive this holiday. Remember, those for whom this is not a season of plenty, even a little can go a long way. Now you can find Mama Roker's recipe for oxtail stew and dumplings on my Instagram page. If you try it in your own kitchen, and I hope you do, make sure to use the hashtag your mama's kitchen so we can see all of those delicious creations. Thanks for listening. Come back soon. This has been a higher ground and audible original produced by Higher Ground Studios, senior producer Natalie Wrynn, producer Sonia Tun, and associate producer Angel Carreras. Sound design and engineering from Andrew Epen and Roy Baum. Higher Ground Audio's editorial assistants are Jenna Levin and Camilla Thurdekus. Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick White, Mukta Mohan, Dan Fuhrman and me, Michelle Norris. Executive producers for Audible are zola Mashariki, Nick D'Angelo and Anne Hepperman. The show's closing song is 5:04 by the Soul Rebels. Editorial and web support from Melissa Baer and say what media. Our talent booker is Angela Peluso. And special thanks this week go to Inez Andreas, Satchel Kaplan, the team at Think Food Group, Eli Turner and special thanks this week to NBC Studios and and thanks also to Whisper Room, Inc. In Tennessee, head of Audible Studios, Zola Mashariki, Chief Content Officer, Rachel Giazza and that's it. Goodbye, everybody. See what we're serving up next week. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound recording Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio. Higher Ground.
- [42:27]
Hoda Kotb
Hey guys, thank you so much for listening. I hope you love this beautiful conversation. You can find more of your mama's kitchen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [42:45]
Michelle Norris
It was late past midnight when they.
- [42:48]
Al Roker
Broke into the farmhouse.
- [42:49]
Michelle Norris
Never in a million years would you.
- [42:51]
Al Roker
Think that you'd see your parents house.
- [42:52]
Michelle Norris
Taped off by that yellow tape and.
- [42:55]
Al Roker
They said, you remember I'm bad at being killed. They left behind a wall of blood and a clue that took a case of double murder on a long, strange trip. She looked at me and she said, I'm screwed.
- [43:07]
Michelle Norris
Murder in the Moonlight, a new podcast from Dateline. All episodes of Murder in the moonlight are available now. To listen ad free. Subscribe to Dateline Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Datelinepremium.
- [43:21]
Al Roker
Com.