Hoda Kotb (3:29)

I mean, I have a friend who said that she saw her mother, who is now in her 80s, cry three times in her life. And it was when she lost a parent and when she had some horrible accident and beaches. Like, those are those moments. It's sort of like you let us unlock things that we've been lugging around for years.

Bette Midler (3:47)

Oh, that is so.

Hoda Kotb (3:48)

And we just need a place to, like, let it flow out of us.

Bette Midler (3:51)

That is so extraordinary that you're saying that, because I, of course, have my shrink, and she tells me there's nothing like a good cry. Do you.

Hoda Kotb (4:00)

When you watch any of your own movies, do you ever get a good boo hoo out of them?

Bette Midler (4:06)

I do. I do. In certain scenes, I do get a little boo hoo. I did, strangely enough, I did cry at the end of Hocus Pocus, the last Hocus Pocus, that thing where they all sort of disappear. And my husband cried, too. We both did. It was like. Like, you know, is that what it's like? And he was so impressed. He just loved it. We both cried.

Hoda Kotb (4:25)

When you look back through your career, I watched an interview you did with Barbara Walters, and you were in your 30s, early 30s, and you just finished the Rose, I think, and Barbara asked you, have you reached is this the peak or is there more? And you said, no, no, no, this is it.

Bette Midler (4:44)

I did, yeah.

Hoda Kotb (4:45)

You said, this is it, this is it. And she goes, well, what are you gonna do from when you're 30 to when you're 90? And you go, I don't know, but this is it. And I feel like most of your blessings happened after that.

Bette Midler (4:56)

Yes.

Hoda Kotb (4:57)

Your daughter, all that stuff. But I feel like you always live in the moment during your career. Was that kind of the magic that was.

Bette Midler (5:06)

First, let me address the Rose, which was an absolutely pivotal point in my life. It was a peak. It was a peak. What I didn't know was that many, many peaks would come after that. And I'm so gratified because you never. You don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if you're going to take a fall. And I took many spills after that. After that triumph, I took plenty of spills. I had two real bombs in a row. And then, fortunately, I was picked up by the Walt Disney Company. And then the hits just kept coming, and it was. It was fantastic. And I wondered if that was going to. If that was ever going to end, you know? And when it did end, I was intelligent enough to get my old music back together and go on the road and start a new chapter. So, in a funny way, I've always been kind of opportunistic about my career. This isn't working. Let's move quick, you know, let's think of something else, because you have to. You have to be nimble, and that's true of everything in life.

Hoda Kotb (6:07)

And at that moment, you hadn't yet met your husband, Barton, who told you, I guess upon, you know, in the early days, like, he said, what do you love? And you go, I like being funny. He's like, go do that. Yes. I mean, and that part of your career kind of went off like a rocket ship was being funny you since you were a little girl.

Bette Midler (6:26)

You know, I was funny. I was not. I wasn't exactly a wit, but I was always physically funny. Yeah. And my daughter's the same way, although she's much wittier than I am, and she was. We love physical comedy. I've always loved physical comedy, my entire life. And my heroes are. Are, of course, Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton and those people. I wished I could have been there when they were making those movies. Wait a second. I lost the thread. I'm so old now. I lost the thread. What was the question? I can't remember. You can't remember either, because I lost the thread, too. You know what?

Hoda Kotb (7:03)

It happens.

Bette Midler (7:04)

You know, it totally happens. And it happens at a certain age. And I always say, 75. You're gold till 75. After 75, it's like, oh, oh, oh, better, better, better figure out another way. This is really hard. It's hard.

Hoda Kotb (7:18)

You know, your great happiness has always come from.

Bette Midler (7:22)

Oh, I know. What you said. I know. It was amazing.

Hoda Kotb (7:24)

This is amazing.

Bette Midler (7:25)

Your great peaks happened afterwards. You met your husband and I want to be funny. And he encouraged Me to be funny. But I'll tell you the truth. If Michael Eisner and Jeffrey Katzenberg hadn't taken over the Disney company at the time that they did, I probably would not have had. I probably would have had to find another. They decided they were going to have an adult imprint in their studio, and that was Touchstone. They invented Touchstone. And they wanted grown up movies. Yes. And I, who was this bawd? You know, I'm bawdy and I sing the blues sometimes and I'm kind of. I can be, you know, pretty blue. That's what they used to say. She works blue. It didn't matter to them. They wanted that. And for some reason, I wound up with the family organization. And, you know, for years I was there. Ten years I made pictures for them for 10 years. And for 10 years I would say, how did I get here? How did I get here? And yet I was making fun. I was there and I was having the time of my life. Great movies, one or two duds, but for the most part, great pictures that touch people's lives. So thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Mike.

Hoda Kotb (8:36)

When you think about the beginning, when you were starting, I always think, like, someone had to believe 100 in you.

Bette Midler (8:42)

Yes.

Hoda Kotb (8:43)

So when you were, I know you grew up in Hawaii and you moved and you came here and you're like, let me try this thing. You were, you had confidence, but there had to be somebody who said, you've got this.

Bette Midler (8:54)

Because first, let me say, I never said, I'm gonna try this.

Hoda Kotb (8:57)

Oh, you didn't?

Bette Midler (8:58)

No, I never said I'm gonna try this. I said, I'm going to do this, which is a completely different thing for me. There was nothing else. I couldn't do anything else. I couldn't, I couldn't add, I couldn't subtract, I couldn't take dictation, I couldn't teach, I couldn't nurse, I couldn't do anything. All I could do, which was what was open to you in those days. This is what I could do. So that was the only thing to do. And I loved it with all my heart. I was going to do it. So there was never any question in my mind. And from that, from the fact that I had no question, there was no question in my mind, comes tremendous confidence. It was years before my confidence was shaken. Years, wow. It took years.

Hoda Kotb (9:35)

But what about when you didn't get the gig? Like, did that shake your confidence?

Bette Midler (9:39)

No, because I knew that was the route. Those were the rules. You would go up and you would be Seen and you might make it, but you might not. And a couple of times I would get close, but then I didn't.

Hoda Kotb (9:51)

What did they say? What was that?

Bette Midler (9:52)

They would say thank you.

Hoda Kotb (9:55)

Did they tell you why? Like what you could work on?

Bette Midler (9:57)

No, they don't do that. They didn't do that. They never did that in those days. Maybe they're more. Because it's more touchy feely. Now. They might tell you, you know, you really should, but in those days, no. Next.

Hoda Kotb (10:07)

When was your dad the proudest of you?

Bette Midler (10:09)

I think my dad was a problem. My dad, my dad was a straightforward, straight shooting guy. He was a no nonsense guy. He loved Bill Bendix, Life O'Reilly. He loved Jackie Gleason. I got my love from Jackie Gleason. From him. And he was a working class guy. He was a blue collar. He was a house painter and he rose through the ranks to. He worked for the civil service, rose through the ranks to become a superintendent of house painters. But basically he was a blue collar guy and he liked it that way. My mother was more airy fairy. My mother had imagination, she had dreams she wanted. I mean, it was lovely. And so I had both of these people tugging at me all the time. And my mother named me for Bette Davis, which Bette Davis was not pleased to hear.

Hoda Kotb (10:53)

Why?

Bette Midler (10:54)

Who knows? Because, you know, I went to see, I went to a. I went to, I went to Liz Taylor's 60th birthday party and I was, it was very interesting. And Ms. Davis came and I was, I had just had my baby. Oh, Jesus. And I was invited and I was like so exhausted. And in those days it was. You didn't. There was no hair and makeup. Yeah, you didn't know about hair and makeup. You just did your hair and you put on a dress and you went. She showed up and she said. And she was very offended that I had come to this event without putting on the dog. So she made that very clear. And then she wound up talking the whole night to Bob Dylan. Go, no. So I can't imagine what he said to her. Anyway, anyway, so I was a little bit hurt. So we were all named for the act. My sister was Judy was Judy Garland. My sister Susan was Susan Hayward. And I was Betty Dick. Although I pronounced it. Bet she pronounced it better.

Hoda Kotb (11:46)

Betty, did your mom want to be an actress?

Bette Midler (11:49)

I don't know. You know what? They were the silent generation. Yeah, sure. They didn't talk. There was no expressing of feelings. They very rarely delved into their memories. They very rarely told you the story of their life. Almost never. I think the proudest he ever was was when I came back to look after him after he. He had a heart attack and he had. You know, he was. He needed somebody to look after him, and I looked after him and sort of. I didn't do the end. I wasn't there for the end. My sister did all that. But I was there when he had his heart stent put in, and we walked and we cooked and we did all this stuff, and he was. You know, I loved him with all my heart. And in the end, he wrote me a note and. Please don't make me cry. He wrote me a note. I. You wrote me a really nice note. Moving on.

Hoda Kotb (12:43)

Can I tell you something?

Bette Midler (12:44)

You're just like Barbara Walters. She used to do that, too.

Hoda Kotb (12:47)

You know what every kid dreams of a note at the end. I mean, because there are so many

Bette Midler (12:53)

things that are unanswered, so many things unsaid.

Hoda Kotb (12:56)

Did it answer or did it.

Bette Midler (12:57)

It answered everything. It did. It did. It was. It was very moving.

Hoda Kotb (13:01)

Where is that note?

Bette Midler (13:02)

I have it.

Hoda Kotb (13:03)

Of course you do.

Bette Midler (13:03)

I have it framed.

Hoda Kotb (13:05)

Can I ask one more question about him?

Bette Midler (13:06)

Yeah.

Hoda Kotb (13:07)

What did you lose the day he passed?

Bette Midler (13:10)

Well, you know, I think what I lost, it was a good thing and a bad thing because he was realistic to a fault, and I think he knew human nature. And in a funny way, his passing released me from the cynicism that he put on me. And that was a good thing because one wants to be joyful in this life. And he was quite a cynic. He was quite a cynic. He didn't trust a lot of people. And I think because they lived through so much. That generation, he had lived through the Depression and the war, and I think they just. They'd had it. They just had it. So he imparted a little bit of that, actually quite a bit of it to me. But I was. But my mother was the joyous one. You know, she could make me smile, and I watched her, and she was marvelous.

Hoda Kotb (14:10)

Oh, she named you after Bette Davis. And you make it so big. Did she get to see how big you made it?

Bette Midler (14:16)

She saw enough of it that it thrilled her.

Hoda Kotb (14:18)

Wow.

Bette Midler (14:18)

She saw the movie. She saw the rose. She died not long after that. She died, actually during the making of, I think, Outrageous Fortune, which was in the 80s. And she. She got to see a lot of it. She hoarded everything. She kept all the clippings, and people would write her, and she would write them back, and she loved that.

Hoda Kotb (14:39)

Oh, they really.

Bette Midler (14:40)

She loved that. She loved all that. So in the end, it was great. In the end, it was. I did the right thing. I did.

Hoda Kotb (14:49)

More ahead with Bette Midler. Stay with us.

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Hoda Kotb (17:04)

It's so funny because my best friend just flew in because we're going to have a little meeting and I just saw her outside and she goes, what are you doing? I said, I'm interviewing Bette Midler. And she goes, oh my God. So she and I, when we first met, ordered pizza with onions on it and turned on and turned on for the boys. I've never seen a person cry like Karen cried that day.

Bette Midler (17:25)

Aw.

Hoda Kotb (17:25)

To this day. It's been 30 years. We now say when she goes, oh, my God, I was so upset. I go, was it for the boys? She goes, not that bad. I go, so that's our benchmark. But that movie, too. You were nominated for an Oscar for that movie.

Bette Midler (17:38)

I was, yeah. I was.

Hoda Kotb (17:39)

I mean, so many beautiful nominations, so many wins through life.

Bette Midler (17:43)

Yes.

Hoda Kotb (17:43)

Like, so many accolades. Did those things matter to you?

Bette Midler (17:49)

The Kennedy center really meant something to me because that was like some kind of national accolade. That really meant a lot to me. Did they mean a lot? Yes, they did. Yes, they did. Yes, they did. But once you get them, they're furniture, you know, so it's very. It's really wonderful. It's wonderful. The recognition from your peers is always, always great. I can't deny it. Some people are very poo poo about. Like I said, when you get it, it's great. But then it's there, and you sort of tend to take it for granted because the life is lived at such a speed. It's so reckless in a funny way. And now that I've slowed down a lot, I look back on it and I say, what the hell was that? Because it was so fast and so fast and furious. Things coming at you all the time, all these things you had to negotiate new things, old things, old friends, new friends, new songs, old songs, movies. It was lived at such a fever pitch that it. It was very hard to internalize it and to not just accept it, but take a great deal of joy from it. And the thing is that joy is like, everything fades. Everything fades. And when you reach a certain age, you realize, oh, this is so interesting, because all the stuff that you read that you said, oh, that's not gonna happen to me. It happens.

Hoda Kotb (19:15)

What are those things?

Bette Midler (19:16)

All sorts of things. The body changes, the mind changes, the take on life changes, your friends change, your situation in life changes. Your house falls apart. You know that song, this Old House? Yeah. I had it on my Rosemary Clooney songbook. And when I first recorded it, I thought, oh, this. I think this is a song about growing old. But I'm not sure. And then I realized, oh, it's absolutely about growing old.

Hoda Kotb (19:48)

How do you feel about being a woman of a certain age?

Bette Midler (19:51)

You know, I always say, 75, you're golden. Past 75, you're negotiating incessantly. You're talking, thinking about the stairs. You're thinking about that chair. I fell twice. Twice I fell twice. Once at Christmas time, I fell off a chair, metal chair. And I Fell on my left breast. And I dented the chair. How about that? I dented the chair. So that was like a purple boob for months. That was one time. And then I was in the street. And both times, my daughter rescued me. Both times, she just happened to be in town and her car was coming up, not my driveway, but outside, and I stopped her to say hello. And. What are you doing, Mommy? I'm going on my steps. So I walk. And then plunk through a pothole. I fell right into a pothole. And so. And she rescued me again. And so it's. For her, as an only child, it's really. I think only children have a very special. A very special burden to carry because they're the. You know, they have to. They have these two. As I said earlier, my daughter has said for years. I was a single parent my entire life. His daughter's great.

Hoda Kotb (21:07)

She's brilliant, right?

Bette Midler (21:08)

She's brillian.

Hoda Kotb (21:10)

Is that where she got it?

Bette Midler (21:12)

She's got. I don't know where she got it from, but she's got a little bit of both of us.

Hoda Kotb (21:15)

What's the good part of growing older?

Bette Midler (21:18)

The good part of growing older is that you get it.

Hoda Kotb (21:20)

Yeah.

Bette Midler (21:23)

It's not so obscure to you, what's going on. You see the machine more. You see what's coming. You see how people jockey for position, and you see how life is lived. And it can be distressing, but it can also be kind, enlightening because, you know, the way the gears work. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing. It's not so stressful. You say, oh, that's just life.

Hoda Kotb (21:51)

That's the way it goes.

Bette Midler (21:52)

That's how it goes.

Hoda Kotb (21:53)

Your fulfillment. You always said. You said a couple of things in past interviews you loved.

Bette Midler (21:57)

You were bookish.

Hoda Kotb (21:58)

You always described yourself as bookish.

Bette Midler (22:00)

Yeah, I'm bookish. Are you still that way? I'm deeply bookish, more now than ever. Yeah. Because there's so many books that I haven't read. And now I'm, like, on a timetable. Oh, I gotta do that.

Hoda Kotb (22:09)

What do you read? Anything?

Bette Midler (22:10)

I'm reading Shakespeare. You are? I never read Shakespeare. I never read him. I decided I'm gonna read Shakespeare. And I started with Richard iii, which is unbelievable and so clear about the way human beings are.

Hoda Kotb (22:27)

Wow.

Bette Midler (22:28)

And so now I realize after I read that, I said, oh, my God, this is fantastic.

Hoda Kotb (22:31)

Amazing.

Bette Midler (22:32)

These are all, you know, like you're searching. You're searching for the answers to certain personality questions, and they're all there. So that's what I'm doing.

Hoda Kotb (22:40)

Let's talk about where we are now, because I know you get great satisfaction from performing, obviously, on stage. You come alive and all those things.

Bette Midler (22:48)

Yeah, yeah.

Hoda Kotb (22:49)

You've got this movie, and it's tons of fun. It's four women. All are just. You guys have all kind of antics together. Your daughter makes a cameo. Tell me about what it was like filming this.

Bette Midler (23:01)

Well, we were in a great spot. We were in Savannah, Georgia, and we had a great team. We had Jocelyn Morehouse, who loved. Who's worked with women, made great movies with women, and she gathered this cast together. It was initially Susan Sarandon and Megan Mullally. Susan really wanted Megan. And it was. And she was right. And it was Sissy Spacek, but Sissy broke her hip. Oh. So I said, sheryl Lee Ralph. So Sheryl Lee Ralph. Isn't that such a good idea? And Shea Cheryl came on board. And you know what? It was really good. It was really good casting, very balanced. And the piece is really good because everybody gets a chance to shine. I love that. Yeah. Which is terrific.

Hoda Kotb (23:44)

This is a great movie. It's all about women in different. They're all of a certain age, but they're in different parts of life. Your character is about to get married again. Yes. To a guy she only just met. I mean, by the way, you actually did that in real life.

Bette Midler (23:59)

I did.

Hoda Kotb (23:59)

Pause for a second. Is that how you make decisions?

Bette Midler (24:03)

I am impulsive, yes. Yes. I am very impulsive. You do. And it took me years to realize that. I was like, that's. Yeah. I mean, really. It was only when I was 75, I was like, what's wrong with you? You just, like. You're so impulsive.

Hoda Kotb (24:15)

I mean, you meet just. I'm gonna get to the movie. But you meet a guy named Martin. You said he had on some crazy blazer that was yellow or I don't know what color it was, whatever. And you were like, huh?

Bette Midler (24:27)

And he did, too. He said, we both did.

Hoda Kotb (24:30)

Cause you both have. You're both kind of just interesting. A little different.

Bette Midler (24:33)

Yes.

Hoda Kotb (24:34)

Who proposed to whom?

Bette Midler (24:36)

I think I proposed to him. Oh, I think I proposed to him. I do. I think I proposed to him. I think I was like, it was at that time. It was. The time was right. And he was fabulous. And I thought, how. What could happen, you know? And I took a flyer. Cause people took flyers then. I think they still do.

Hoda Kotb (24:55)

I think so. And then you went to Vegas and got married.

Bette Midler (24:57)

And we went to Vegas and Got married by an Elvis impersonator. Always, always a good idea. And on the way back, it snowed. So we took that as a very, very good omen. It was very beautiful.

Hoda Kotb (25:06)

How many years now?

Bette Midler (25:07)

40. Close to 40, actually. 40. 40. Wow. This year, 40. Yeah. Astonishing.

Hoda Kotb (25:13)

How does that.

Bette Midler (25:14)

I cannot make any sense out of it. It sounds like my career. What in the hell was that? It's just nuts. 40 years is a long, long time. It's long. It's long, it's long. And 78 is really long. And the interesting thing is that it's never dull. It's never dull. It's never dull. You're always scrambling. You're always curious. You're always looking for answers. Human beings are very. Are wonderful creatures. Wow.

Hoda Kotb (25:48)

More with Bette Midler when we come back.

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Bette Midler (26:26)

Psst.

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Bette Midler (26:59)

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Hoda Kotb (27:30)

Okay, so back to the movie. So.

Bette Midler (27:33)

So back to the movie.

Hoda Kotb (27:34)

Back to the movie.

Bette Midler (27:34)

So here I was with Susan Sarandon, who I knew for years ago from years, because we had a women's luncheon group together. So we. I knew her. I didn't know Megan, although I knew her work, and I didn't know I knew Sheryl Lee's work. Really well, because she was from the theater. So here we all were with Jocelyn. And each one of those characters is extremely indelible. And I loved my character because she's really wacky and she's not going without a fight, which I think she is gonna stay relevant until they carry her out feet first. It doesn't. She is not, you know, she's not gonna go gentle. So I found her really intriguing, and I also found her ridiculous. And there's nothing better than, you know, someone who's ridiculous.

Hoda Kotb (28:21)

I love watching the character, like, film herself. And she's putting everything on TikTok. No matter what anyone's doing, she's like, smile over here. And the friends are like, what are you doing?

Bette Midler (28:30)

And she's also the bully of the bunch. Yeah, yeah, she's definitely the bully of the bunch. And she doesn't really recognize it. She won't. It's one of those things that she doesn't really want to recognize about herself. You know, do this, do that. And I think she was sort of a leader. But she has a secret. She does have a secret. And that's the fact that Susan's character, Lou the doctor, is estranged from her. And this is the character that she has always missed in her life because she really looked up to her. And the fact that this character is no longer in her life has been a source of discomfort and pain to her. And it's another one of those things that she swept under the rug. So she has a lot of baggage and she's carrying a lot of bag, and she's. And she's. You know, she's living. She's delusional. In a funny way, I would say

Hoda Kotb (29:15)

you fall in love with her. You really do. Yeah, you do. What about you and TikTok? Do you have any relationship with any of these?

Bette Midler (29:19)

I tried. I gave it a few hours of my life, and I said, this is too dangerous. I got started at 9, and I didn't get done till 2 or 4. And I said. I looked up and I said, what time is it? And they said, it's four. And I said, but how could that be? How could that be? Where did the hours go? And then I realized, no, you're not doing that. No, I can't. I cannot go down that. I can't. No.

Hoda Kotb (29:41)

How about getting back on Broadway or getting back on the stage?

Bette Midler (29:43)

Well, you know, it's seven or eight shows a week. It takes a toll on your body. Although I must say, the last one. Hello, Dolly. A dream come true by the Way Home Run. I think that was the peak of my life. I really do think that was the greatest thing I ever did. I really do. Being in that tiny little room, that tiny little theater with those people who would, you know, pay top dollar, those penis people who had. Had followed me all these years screaming for Dolly. I mean, it was. It was overwhelming. It was really over. And the cast was so brilliant and every. We had so much fun. We had the progressive party. We had progress. We had parties. We went to dinner. We went for drinks. I mean, it was. It was real, so real camaraderie.

Hoda Kotb (30:24)

How do you feel that part of you now? Because to have that in your life? I mean, I would think that I talked to Hoda.

Bette Midler (30:33)

How do I fill that? You know, I have my family, and I've brought my family much closer. And I read. I read because I really feel like I can't leave this life with so many questions unanswered. You know, I really want to get it. I'm really waiting for the answer. And someone will say, you, some Buddhist or someone will say, there is no answer. There's no self, and there's no answer. But the search is so interesting, you know, it keeps the wheels moving. And there's nothing more exciting than being invigorated by thought, I think, you know, and by the imagination you don't really need. I love the crowds, but I don't need them anymore. I was tired. I was tired. I'm not saying I'm in retirement, but I did get tired, and I did. I do feel that it was time for me to just take a step back and. And assess, reassess, and enjoy what it was. Rest on your laurels. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. I got a million cliches. I mean, I have them all. I don't know where they come from.

Hoda Kotb (31:38)

Do you still sing at home? Do you like singing?

Bette Midler (31:40)

I do sing at home from time to time. I sing on Twitter. I make those ridiculous parodies about certain things, political parodies. And that's always fun because it's a creative outlet, but I don't really have the needs that I once had. Everything gets turned down a little bit after a certain age, you know, And I have these crackpot theories about drive and intensity, and I think a lot of it's hormonal. You do? I do. I do. I do. And I thank God for hormones, because nothing would ever get done if not for hormones. Really, truly. So. Wow.

Hoda Kotb (32:19)

Wow. I love you. I really do. That was so beautiful and fulfilling.

Bette Midler (32:24)

This was great. Hoda I love you. This was so great. Oh, you are special. You're really special. You're really special. Give me a hug.

Hoda Kotb (32:39)

Making Space with Hoda Kot is produced by Alison Berger and Alexa Casavecchia and Yael Fellow, along with Kate Saunders and Allie Detwiler. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Leish is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle.

Commercial Narrator (33:10)

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