Christina Applegate and Jamie-Lynn Sigler On The Pain And Triumph of Living with MS

Summary

Making Space with Hoda Kotb: Christina Applegate and Jamie-Lynn Sigler on the Pain and Triumph of Living with MS

Release Date: April 9, 2025

In this deeply moving episode of Making Space with Hoda Kotb, Hoda engages in an intimate conversation with acclaimed actresses Christina Applegate and Jamie-Lynn Sigler. Both celebrated for their iconic roles on television, the duo shares their personal journeys living with multiple sclerosis (MS), highlighting their resilience, the profound bond they share, and the lessons they've learned along the way.

Introduction: Two Voices of Strength

Hoda Kotb welcomes listeners by introducing Christina Applegate and Jamie-Lynn Sigler, emphasizing their combined nearly 90-year presence in the entertainment industry. Both actresses have not only entertained audiences but have also become public figures advocating for MS awareness. Christina was diagnosed at 49, while Jamie-Lynn received her diagnosis at just 20. Despite their different stages in life and varying experiences with the disease, they have cultivated a supportive friendship that anchors their fight against MS.

Hoda Kotb [01:09]: "Christina and Jamie Lynn are public faces of multiple sclerosis, the harrowing disease that they are both living with."

The Genesis of Their Friendship

Christina expresses her gratitude for Jamie-Lynn's friendship, noting how their connection was initially forged through their shared struggle with MS.

Christina Applegate [02:50]: "I kind of feel like I know you. I've watched some dear friends of mine interview you and I love your friendship."

Jamie-Lynn elaborates on how their bond extends beyond just their condition, encompassing discussions about motherhood, life, and personal fears.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [03:14]: "Our given bond initially was our love of multiple sclerosis or lack thereof... but it was our friend Lance hooking us up and saying, you guys just need to talk."

Living with MS: Defining and Shaping Identity

The conversation delves into how MS has impacted their identities. While Christina views MS as a defining aspect of her life, Jamie-Lynn sees it as a part of her that has shaped her into someone stronger.

Christina Applegate [06:06]: "Sometimes an illness shapes you and sometimes it defines you. Sometimes it's part of you and sometimes it's all of you."

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [04:13]: "Ms. doesn't define me, but it has absolutely shaped me into somebody that I wouldn't want to know without the experience."

However, Christina shares a contrasting perspective, expressing her struggle with fully accepting the role MS plays in her life.

Christina Applegate [06:16]: "I am defined by it right now. I'm three and a half years in. I have days where I can't even, like, walk to the bathroom."

The Emotional Toll and Acceptance

Jamie-Lynn opens up about the emotional challenges of living with MS, highlighting moments of anger, frustration, and the arduous journey toward acceptance. She recounts a particularly difficult day involving a dentist appointment that left her emotionally drained.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [07:26]: "I can't move anymore. And that's the stuff that makes me can't accept yet because I'm mad."

Despite these struggles, Jamie-Lynn admires Christina's ability to express her raw emotions openly, fostering a space of mutual understanding and support.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [08:25]: "I admire Christina for her ability to just really feel these feelings that are very raw and real."

Coming Out Publicly: A Step Towards Healing

Both actresses discuss the daunting decision to go public with their MS diagnoses. Jamie-Lynn shares her initial reluctance to reveal her condition, fearing it would harm her career and personal reputation. A pivotal moment came when her son's questions and a transformative hypnosis session led her to embrace transparency.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [09:16]: "I had to say, this is my deal. You're gonna notice that I'm different."

Christina echoes similar sentiments, relating her own experience of keeping her breast cancer diagnosis private to avoid being seen as a victim.

Christina Applegate [13:43]: "I didn't want to say it only because I didn't want sad eyes. I didn't want someone looking at me like I was a victim of something."

Impact on Personal Life and Relationships

The discussion shifts to how MS has altered their relationships, particularly with their children. Christina speaks candidly about her son's empathy and frustration, emphasizing the need to validate his feelings while navigating her own challenges.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [28:39]: "My older son, Beau, is just an angel. He's very empathetic and considerate... but he is frustrated about it. He doesn't think it's fair, and that's okay."

Jamie-Lynn shares her daughter's struggle to reconcile her perception of a 'normal' mom with the changes MS has wrought.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [30:09]: "She's testing, like, are you still my mom? Are you still here to protect me and take care of me."

Building a Supportive Community

Both actresses highlight the importance of community and support in their journey. Jamie-Lynn recounts a heartfelt interaction at the Trail of Lights in Austin, where a fellow MS sufferer expressed how their connection fostered hope and encouragement.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [19:33]: "This woman walked up to me and said, I just want to tell you that I love MS and what it means to me... those types of conversations... give me hope."

The Role of Healing and Personal Growth

Jamie-Lynn and Christina explore various healing modalities beyond medical treatments, such as therapy, breathwork, and meditation. Christina shares a transformative experience with a breathing technique that unlocked deep-seated emotions.

Christina Applegate [37:27]: "I exploded in tears... it was stress. I never thought a simple breathing exercise could have such an impact."

Jamie-Lynn discusses the mental and emotional aspects of healing, emphasizing the need for a holistic approach.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [35:45]: "Healing is something that you need to come at from all angles. I think it's what pushes me in the times when I need it."

Creating the Podcast: A Platform for Vulnerability

The origin story of Making Space is shared, highlighting how spontaneous and raw conversations between Christina and Jamie-Lynn evolved into a podcast that offers candid discussions about living with MS.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [23:04]: "We started recording... our ability to be vulnerable with each other and feeling safe enough to do that, kind of almost forgetting that the world would hear these conversations."

Final Thoughts: Hope and Resilience

As the episode draws to a close, both Christina and Jamie-Lynn convey messages of hope and resilience. They acknowledge the ongoing struggle with MS but remain committed to finding strength through community, support, and personal growth.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler [32:01]: "I really hope that the good wins."

Christina Applegate [42:30]: "I want people to tune into MS because... people are in for a real treat."

Conclusion: Empowering Others Through Shared Experiences

This episode of Making Space with Hoda Kotb serves as a powerful testament to the resilience of the human spirit. Christina Applegate and Jamie-Lynn Sigler offer invaluable insights into living with MS, illustrating how shared experiences and mutual support can transform pain into triumph. Their candid dialogue not only fosters empathy and understanding but also inspires listeners to make space for growth and change in their own lives.

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Notable Quotes:

• Christina Applegate [03:56]: "Sometimes an illness shapes you and sometimes it defines you. Sometimes it's part of you and sometimes it's all of you."
• Jamie-Lynn Sigler [04:13]: "Ms. doesn't define me, but it has absolutely shaped me into somebody that I wouldn't want to know without the experience."
• Christina Applegate [06:16]: "I am defined by it right now... I'm angry at it still."
• Jamie-Lynn Sigler [08:25]: "I admire Christina for her ability to just really feel these feelings that are very raw and real."
• Christina Applegate [13:43]: "I didn't want to say it only because I didn't want sad eyes... I didn't want someone looking at me like I was a victim of something."
• Jamie-Lynn Sigler [19:33]: "Women suffering from MS, those types of conversations... give me hope."
• Christina Applegate [37:27]: "I exploded in tears... it was stress. I never thought a simple breathing exercise could have such an impact."
• Jamie-Lynn Sigler [32:01]: "I really hope that the good wins."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing an engaging and informative overview for those who haven't yet listened.

Transcript

[Hoda Kotb]

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You know both of my guests today, I'm sure, by their bodies of work. Actresses Christina Applegate and Jamie Lynn Sigler have a combined nearly 90 years in the industry, iconic roles on shows like Married With Children and the Sopranos, turning both Christina and Jamie Lynn into household names. But today, the actresses are also known for a very different role. Christina and Jamie Lynn are public faces of multiple sclerosis, the harrowing disease that they are both living with. Jamie Lynn was diagnosed in 2003 at the age of just 20 and Christina at age 49, not even four years ago. And while in two very different places with MS, Christina and Jamie Lynn have found tremendous support in one another. Jamie Lynn will tell you Christina opened her up after years of suffering quietly. She's now done trying to appear to be perfect, and Christina is leaning on Jamie Lynn to share the complexities of the disease only someone else living with it would understand. Their journey together is one of pain and triumph, but they're there's also so much beauty in the bond that connects them. I hope you'll listen to today's episode not just with empathy, but also with curiosity. These are two women with a truly unique perspective on life. I found both Christina and Jamie Lynn to be fascinating, insightful and powerful. And I hope you will too. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast Making.

[Christina Applegate]

All right guys, first of all, I just want to tell you how happy I am to be sitting with you too. I kind of feel like I know you. I've watched some dear friends of mine interview you and I Love your friendship. There are a million things that connect you, but I don't even care at this moment what those things are because I love your friendship. Will you, Christina, describe, like, the bond between you two?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I mean, our given bond initially was our. Our love of multiple sclerosis or lack.

[Christina Applegate]

Thereof.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

But it was our friend Lance hooking us up and saying, you guys just need to talk. And those talks weren't just about ms, it was about everything, about motherhood and life and relationships and fear and everything. And we would just sit there for hours on the phone and I felt really safe with Jamie. I don't feel very safe with many people to talk about my true, like, inner, inner stuff and be heard and understood and not judged. So that's, you know, a big one. And she's glorious and she keeps me sane.

[Christina Applegate]

Sometimes an illness shapes you and sometimes it defines you. Sometimes it's part of you and sometimes it's all of you. Jamie, when you think about ms, how do you. How do you see it? Is it part of you? Is it all of you? Does it define you?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

It's been all of those things at different times. You know, I think that it's been a journey of acceptance, just a true learning experience of acceptance, surrender to what is, and acknowledging the lessons that it brings, but also the gifts I think there are. You know, I, Christina and I talk a lot about time. You know, this is very much a new body and a new life. When you live with something like ms, you have to pivot in every which way, every way you imagined your life to be, every way that it is, depending on how your body is reacting to it. And I've had a lot of time with this, and I've had a lot of time in secret. I've had a lot of time in denial. I've had a lot of time in fear. I've had a lot of time in despair. And what I've learned, you know, particularly with Christina, in the past couple of years, is to sit with it all, that it all matters, that it's all valid, it's all important. And much like life, it ebbs and flows. But I think that Ms. Doesn't define me, but it has absolutely shaped me into somebody that I wouldn't want to know without the experience. I mean, of course I would love to not struggle in my body, I would love to not have a disability. I would love to be able to participate in my life the way I would choose to, but the way that I look at the world and the way that I feel about people. I don't know if it would be the same without this.

[Christina Applegate]

So that's profound. You know, a huge statement to say that. Christina, do you. How do you see that? Do you.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Do you.

[Christina Applegate]

Do you share that?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Congratulations, Jamie. I love you for looking at this in a positive note. I am defined by it right now. You know, I'm three and a half years in. I have days where I can't even, like, walk to the bathroom. So I am defined by it. I'm angry at it still. And there's a lot of us out there who are newly diagnosed that are not quite ready to accept this reality. I keep thinking that I'm just going to wake up from this nightmare and it's just going to be over.

[Christina Applegate]

Wow.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

But the reality is that it's not. And that's what I am trying to find a way to accept. But it's, like, really, really difficult to. I went to go to the dentist yesterday, and it was a half an hour appointment, and it was like the most miserable, like, hour and a half of my life. Just getting down my stairs, getting into the car, getting into the parking lot, getting into the elevator, going into the office. You know, like the whole thing was like, not even an hour and a half. And by the time I got home, I was like, I can't move anymore. And that's. That's the stuff that makes me go that I can't accept yet because I'm mad.

[Christina Applegate]

Still are many days, Christina, like that day that you just. Every day. She's.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Every day.

[Christina Applegate]

Are you mad at God? Who are you mad at?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Just mad at the situation. I'm not mad at, you know, my belief in God is not a God that does things to you, the universe, and can't be mad at that. I'm just mad because I want to do things. I want to hike. I want to. I want to do normal things. I want to get down the stairs, get my own water. I want to do these things, and I can't. And it feels like I'm getting worse, and that's disheartening. But then there's like this voice inside of me that is like, you've got to believe in a miracle. You've got to believe in another side of this. So I don't know. That's just kind of where I'm at right now, which is not very inspiring to anyone. But I feel like someone listening to me goes, oh, my God, I feel that way. And I feel like I'm not doing it right. You know, there is no Doing ms, right?

No, there's not. And I have to. I just want to say that I think it's incredibly healthy. I admire Christina for her ability to just really feel these feelings that are very raw and real. They were feelings that I wouldn't allow myself to feel or didn't think I deserved to feel for way too long. So I think in the beginning of her journey with this, for her to be able to express herself like this, I admire. I do.

[Christina Applegate]

Well, you know, Jamie, it's funny because you started off by saying you were living your life in secret, and I thought how scary that must have been, like, to think, I wonder if today's the day somebody finds out or something happens. How did you manage that? And what made you? Or how did you finally let the world know about it?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

You know, I'm reliving my life right now because I'm writing my book, and, like, all these repressed memories are coming back of just all those times at different, you know, jobs or situations where it felt like I was on the brink of being found out. And the amount of fear and anxiety and stress that I lived with, that I assumed I would live with for the rest of my life. I did not see any other way out. I didn't see any other way. I was. I felt like I was protecting myself. I felt I was protecting my career. I was protecting my reputation. I could not see anything positive about my coming out with this. But when my son was about 2 years old, you know, the disease had manifested in a way at that point where I couldn't hide that something was up. I was limping. I didn't walk. Normal people questioned it, commented it all the time. It was getting exhausting. And everyone around me in my small circle that knew just really was desperate for me. Like, they didn't understand why I would keep the secret. You know, I looked at my son one night, and I thought I was reading him some book, and it was just about, you know, how everybody's different and how anything is possible and what makes you unique makes you special. And I thought, I'm teaching him to look at the world this way, and at some point, he's gonna have an understanding of that. Mommy has Ms. And this is why she can't run with you or she can't do certain things with you. You know, we explained it in very simple terms to him then. And I thought, what am. What am I teaching my son about the world? Like, this is how you should view it, except it's not right for Mom. The world Wouldn't accept Mom. I didn't know how to make the change. And believe it or not, I got hypnotized one time. And when I came out of the hypnosis, I don't know what this man said to me. He's like the hypnotist of the stars that gets everyone to quit smoking. His name is Cary Gaynor. Love him. I walked out of his office that day, and I came home and I said, okay, I'm ready to just do now.

[Christina Applegate]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I think he just made me really understand that I had done nothing wrong. I had such shame around it. When you keep a secret, you know, that's shame. And it had built up for so long, and it was just chipping away at every part of me. And he, I think, told me that I didn't deserve to live that way, and I deserved more, and I deserve to see what would it be like on the other side. And so I owe it all, or at least a lot of it, to him.

[Christina Applegate]

So Jamie had to keep a secret. Christina, someone saw you. Is that how you ended up telling people it was.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

No, I ended up. Well, they had to push me in a wheelchair at work. It was undeniable that something was wrong, but I hadn't been diagnosed yet. But we knew something was wrong. Way wrong. When I went back to start the third season of Dead to Me, way wrong. I mean, I had put on 50 pounds. I couldn't walk. My legs were completely numb. I mean, but I was being told that it was something else for a really long time until all the tests came through. But there was this one scene where we would have our grief group. It was a really long walk from the vans to the set, and I couldn't do it. So they got me a wheelchair. And someone took a picture of me in the wheelchair, and I didn't even know yet. And I guess they had said something like, oh, yeah, her character gets in a car accident, so that must be why she's in a wheelchair. So I just kind of let it be. And then I got the news, and I just had to say, this is my deal. You're gonna notice that I'm different. You know, you're gonna notice in the show that I look different. You're gonna notice that I'm sitting in all the scenes, and if you see me out, you're gonna notice that I can't walk without a cane. Like, it would all happen so quickly. From my first symptoms, which were very mild, with some tingling in my toes, to five months later from my knees down. I can't feel and it hurts and it's awful and it's like a 247 thing now. So there was just no. I had to protect myself by saying, hey, this is what's going on. Please just let me be.

[Unknown]

More with Jamie Lynn Sigler and Christina Applegate when we come back.

[Hoda Kotb]

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[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I mean, the denim section is unreal.

[Unknown]

Why do I rack all the dresses?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I always find something amazing.

[Unknown]

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[Christina Applegate]

What is it like? Because this is not parallel at all. But a while ago I had breast cancer. And I remember I was afraid to say it only because I didn't want sad eyes. I didn't want someone looking at me like I was a victim of something. And I liked people to look at me in just a regular kind of way. And so I thought, I'm going to put this stuff in my deep in my pockets. And I was on a flight one day and I had just had all my surgeries and I was, I sat on the plane and a man next to me said, hey, what's your name? And I go, I didn't want to talk. I felt horrible. It was a mistake to fly. I shouldn't have gone. I went Too early, after all the surgeries and stuff. And I liked him for some reason. We started talking, and he goes, so, what's on your arm? And I said, it's a compression sleeve. He said, what's it for? And I said, well, I had surgery, so I'm wearing it. And he goes, well, what was the surgery? And I go, I had a procedure, you know, and I'm wearing. What was the procedure? I was like, buddy, oh, geez. Anyway, I go. I go, okay, I'm gonna say something to you. I said, I have breast cancer. But I hope when you get off the plane, it's not the first thing that you think of when you think of me. And he goes, what is wrong with you? He said, breast cancer is part of you, like, going to college or working at NBC or whatever. He said, I'm going to give you some advice, and you can fall asleep. And I said, okay. And he said, I never forgot these words. He said, don't hog your journey. It's not just for you. He said, think of how many people you could have helped. On the plane ride home, he said, you can put your stuff deep in your pocket and take it to your grave, or you can help somebody, so you can decide. And I sat on that plane. I cried. I got off the plane, and I went to work. And I told some. I didn't even tell my bosses. I just said I was gonna be gone, I had to have a surgery. And I told them, and I was free. And I realized since then, just like you guys do on this podcast every single day, with people listening to you, like, you're healing people in sort of your own way. But do you think that sometimes, like, I wonder how you feel about the looks and. Christine, are you okay? How are you feeling today? You know, like, there's always one conversation. It's like I was longing for not having one conversation.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Yeah, I was gonna say, and I'm. I'm so glad you're okay, because, you know, I had breast cancer as well in 2008, and I did keep it to myself for a while until I had my mastectomies. And then I was at work, and I was like, you guys cannot hug me. Not because I don't love you, but you, like, literally are hurting me. So I had to finally say something. But. So I get that. Yeah. I think that I have a friend who went through something really tragic recently, and we went to a party together, which is, for me, obviously, like, the worst thing, but it was for someone we really cared about, and she had just been through this. This thing. And we get there and she just comes over to me and she goes, how many more times are people gonna be like, are you okay? And I said, yeah, dude, I can't handle it. I gotta leave. She's like, yeah, I think we need to leave. I said, I can't have one more person. I can't have one more person come up and be like, how are you?

Are you okay?

And both of us were like, no, we're not okay. Do you understand that part? Why are you asking if we're okay? You know, what both of us have gone through? We're not okay. And if you don't want to hear a long, sad story, don't ask the question, man. Just say, I like your shoes. Good. You're lucky I'm wearing some.

[Christina Applegate]

Jamie, what about you? Because look, I mean, there are times in your life where Ms. Is directly affecting every single thing. And then there are times in your life when you are. Are reading your kid a story, or you're taking your kid here, you're at the grocery store, or other things. Your life has many more, you know, moments. How do you deal with the fact that sometimes now when people see you, that's the only thing they think about?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Yeah, I think that was the hardest part. That was especially when I first came out, because, you know, you're used to. I was used to for 14 years, nobody knowing. And then all of a sudden you just feel like people are looking at you differently. My fear was to be limited by other people without them getting to know what my own limits were. But what Messy has done is it's changed a lot of those moments for me. I was at this thing here in Austin where I live in December. It's called the Trail of Lights. And they redo all of Zilker park and make it this beautiful, like miles long trail. And I bring a big wagon and sometimes I hop in it and my husband will push. And then other times I'll walk around when I'm feeling strong. And I. The kids were all in a ride and I was standing there by them myself. And this woman walked up to me and when I saw her walk, I could tell she probably had Ms. Or something. And she said, I just want to tell you that I love messy and what it means to me. And I said, thank you. And she said, this is the first time I've ever been able to walk this thing. And I am so grateful that I get to share that with you. And now I hope everybody recognizes me as, like, Ms. Because those types of conversations, I can't tell you what they do for me. Those things give me hope. Those things make me keep pushing in the moments where it feels like it's hard. This has opened up an entire community for the two of us, and the support that we receive from their words, from their emails, from the way they reach out, is, I think, even greater than what we're doing. It's just. It always feels better to know you're not alone. I was alone for so long in this. And, you know, accepting the looks and accepting the glances and understanding that the undertone is just love. You need the constant reminder of. But let me say, there are times to my own husband that I have to say, I need you to look at me like a normal person now, an able person. I will tell you when I need help because he's always trying to. Trying to be two steps ahead of me, of what I'm going to need. Sometimes you want to just feel like a normal person walking through life and, you know, knowing that you'll express what you need in the moment but not feeling too special or, you know, precious.

I like being. I like being made to feel very precious. Precious. Precious. The crap out of me. Peace. No, seriously, I feel the same way. Like, sometimes everyone's like, let me get that cup for you. And I'm like, I've got it. I've got the cup. Got the cup. And then I drop the cup and fall on the floor, and then I cry into it. No, I'm just kidding. I don't. But I was gonna say we have listeners that don't even have Ms. That get to experience just, I think, just candid conversation. I mean, we have an episode about eating disorders and body dysmorphia, and we've got people that just write us and be like, I don't have Ms. Or anything wrong with me, but I hate a lot of people. And how are your thoughts on that? It's like, we got you. We got you, kid. Not hate.

[Christina Applegate]

Don't.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Don't hate. First of all, it's so easy to.

[Christina Applegate]

Know why this works. I mean, it's brilliant. I love First. I love the title. I love the big M and the big S. I love the whole thing. I love how it came together. I love how you guys just had a phone conversation and you were like, is this something more than a phone call? Like, is that really the genesis? Is that how it came to be?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Jamie had you and I had already been talking when Jenna Fisher came to hang out with me.

During my infusion, you and I had just been talking. We had just sort of begun our, like, deep, long conversation routine.

Mm. Yeah. And so Jenna lives near my infusion center, and she's like, I'm gonna come sit with you during your infusion, which is six hours. So that's a commitment. That's. That's a friend commitment right there. And she's like. And I'm, like, trying to make her laugh because that's my way of deflecting all the pain that I feel inside. And she's like, you have to have a podcast, man. You've got to, like, do that. And I'm like, what would I talk about? And then we started talking, and it's like she kind of pushed it into, like, well, what? Something to talk about your Ms. And then I think I just called you and was like, you did? Do you want to record this? Like, should we just. Okay. Up until then, I've never even heard a podcast.

Okay.

I don't think I have, Eve. I don't even think I even listened to ours. I honestly don't. I have such, like, attention issues with, like, books and listening to things that I can't. Anyway, so that's kind of how it started. And we started just recording. We met this beautiful woman, Allison Bresnik, who is our producer, and we just started recording even before we did anything with it.

We recorded, like, almost a year, for almost a full year before we ever put it out. You know, I think we dabbled with, like, how, like, whether we wanted to go with a network or what. And I think we really realized this has to be our own thing. This has to be. We have to let it figure itself out, what it's going to become. It just was. It was born from our conversations and our ability to be vulnerable with each other and feeling safe enough to do that, kind of almost forgetting that the world would hear these conversations.

If you listen to our first one, it was as raw as can be, because we don't. You just start prep work. Well, when someone fancy comes on, you know, we have. Yes, we have an idea of who they are, but when she and I just talk, there's no. We don't have a topic or. I think we're getting to the point where, like, can you guys give us a topic?

Yes. I think we're starting to ask, like, what else do we talk about?

[Christina Applegate]

So, you know, you talk about your ms, Christina, you talked about your dentist day. Just a day that. Now that. I think that really explained everything in like 30 seconds. What a day feels like. Are there things that you do for yourself that help that are not medical? Like, do you. Is there therapy? Do you do breath work? Is there something else that you've tried that that has been helpful to you?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I wish I could say that I'm like, so gung ho and like, let's go. Let's be the poster child of the mess. And I'm going to do all the things I'm like, really? I'm not. I'm like the most curmudgeony negative on the planet. And if I wake up in the morning and I put my feet onto the ground and they hurt, I'm like, well, guess we're staying in bed today. We're not doing anything because I don't feel like being in pain. So that's nice. But no, I do have a PT guy and we're trying to get me stronger again because I have literally wasted away. I have no muscle mass in my legs anymore. They're toothpicks. And that's all from laying here. And also I have a. I'm just gonna vomit it all out. I have a motility issue in my stomach, so I have trouble with food. And I mean, I love food. Please don't get me wrong. I had a breakfast burrito today from Jones on third and it was the best thing I've ever had in my life. Thank you so much. Jones on third. Thank you very much. Anyway, but now I'm so weak that like I could break a femur, you know? So we're just trying to go very, very slowly and trying different medications and different treatments and different supplements.

[Unknown]

More ahead with Jamie Lynn Sigler and Christina Applegate. Stay with us.

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[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

They have framed jeans.

Nike. Yes. Just so many good brands.

[Unknown]

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[Christina Applegate]

So how has your relationship with your kids changed?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Well, my kids have known me no other way, but my kids react very differently to it. My older son, Beau is just an angel. He's very empathetic and considerate. Even at three years old, I would, I get very stiff when I'm sitting for a long period of time. We would go to nursery school and I would be getting out of the car to kind of take him around to the entrance and he would stop people and say, please wait, my mommy's just a little slow. Like he just was always looking out for me, always, you know, protecting me, my little one. Not to say that he's not an angel as well, but he is angry about it. Oh, he is frustrated, he, that I cannot do the things that other moms can do. He doesn't understand, he doesn't think it's fair and that's okay. That's his experience with this. And I, I, I just try to make sure that I validate that for him and that I understand and that it's hard for me too. And I wish it was different as well. Um, he's gotten a little bit better now that he's seven, but I would say from ages like two to six, it was, he wasn't happy with me about it and he made it known. And not to say that it made it harder for me, but I think it was just, it was honest and I think if anything it pushed me more into my honesty and my real feelings about things too.

[Christina Applegate]

Yeah, that's big.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

My daughter always had a very able mom until three years ago. Dance parties every night, long walks, boogie boarding at the beach, long walks on the beach, doing everything, being able to do everything. And in one moment it was all gone and taken from her. And I know it hurts her a lot. I have a teenager, you know, I have a 14 year old, so she's very aware of the world but she still pushes me like, mom, can you please go down to the kitchen to get my charger? And it's like this unspoken thing. She knows it's so hard for me to do that, but she's Also testing, like, are you still my mom? Are you still here to protect me and take care of me? And so I will go, yes. And I will walk down that hall with my hands on the handrails, hoping to God to not fall down the stairs, and I will get her her charger or whatever it is, and bring it back up the two flights of stairs to her room, and with a smile, say, do you need anything else? Nope, that's it. And it's like, unspoken. It's like this. I'm not letting you go yet. But recently I've been pretty bad, and it's been really hard on her, and I can see it. So she spends a lot of time with me in my bed, and we watch Bailing Out Loud or Only Murders in the Building. And we watch our things together, and we snuggle, and she lays on my chest so she knows that I'm still here.

[Christina Applegate]

Wow, that's profound, too. So you talked about a miracle. Praying for a miracle, keeping that, you know, in your mind somewhere. Where does that live? And, you know, what do you believe the future looks like?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Sometimes it's grim in my mind, Hoda, to be completely honest. Sometimes my. What I see is really grim and it scares the crap out of me. But then it's like I've overcome so many things so much in my life, and, you know, like Jamie said earlier, you know, we both. Without each other knowing, we both have been writing our books, like, during this whole time, which then makes you a very raw nerve. Mine's not about ms, it's about my childhood. But anyway, you get. You get really raw and kind of. I get very fatalistic and, you know, but that miracle is like, okay, someone's going to come up with a something, or if I can just sit here and see it, see myself walking differently, because I know that that's my truth. Spiritually is the universe, and thought is creative and word is creative and all of those things. And it's like this battle in my brain right now of the side of me that is, you know, and the side of me that's like, you have done this. You have overcome things. You can do this. And then it's like, no, you can't. This much. This one's for real. This one's permanent. This is lifelong. This is, you know, this illness that doesn't go away. It's just the fight in my head right now is. Is pretty extraordinary. And I. I really hope that the. The good wins.

[Christina Applegate]

Jamie, what. What about for you? How do you. How do you See it, you know.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I used to get really frustrated with myself that I just have this belief that this will go away one day. I, I, I don't know if it's a dream in my heart or a.

It'S not going away, sweetie.

But I, meaning when I, no, when I would get frustrated because I would constantly be proven that it wasn't, it was, you know, it, it's pro, it's slowly, fortunately, from even a very slow burn, but slowly progressed over the last 23 or four years that I've had it. But I would rather, I've learned, would rather go through this experience with that hope in my heart than not. I think it's what pushes me in the times when I, I need it. I think it's also made me take care of myself in a way that I never used to. But I do believe in modern medicine. I also believe healing is something that you need to come at from all angles. I don't think it's just one thing. And I've come to enjoy, even if it's really hard, all of the healing processes. So like mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, I've, it's allowed me to have a new relationship with myself. I'm somebody that's been hard on myself my entire life and judge myself harshly my entire life. I've never felt good enough, I've never felt worthy. And so in my quest for healing it used to be just physical, physical, physical, but now it's like this well rounded thing that every person deserves and I think that's kind of where messy goes beyond just Ms. With our listeners. Because when you hear it through your filter for your experiences. Right. The more specific you get with your vulnerability, the more universal it becomes because we're all facing very similar battles in the end of the day.

I was going to say, Jamie, I don't know if you know this, but three of my friends whose parents had Ms. In the last year all have passed away from Ms. And it's like it wasn't just old age, it wasn't like something else. And it's like it's because of this. And that's what made makes me sometimes hit my head and go, oh no, that's the inevitable, you know, but we're all going to go there. But I don't want it to be because of this.

Well, Christina and I talk also a lot about not to like she's so.

Sweaty when I get emotional and then I do this a lot.

Yeah, if she's gonna get really emotional, she'll just Lay all the way back. Okay. And I just know I have to take over for a moment.

Yes. Until she sits back up and my glasses fog up. Can you see things get foggy? Cause I start sweating and getting upset.

But Christina and I also talk about, you know, if you think about, like, metaphysically, like, her and I both have had a lot of trauma in our life. And for me, a lot of inward turned pain, anger that I never felt comfortable putting, expressing out into the world. So I turn it all inward. It's, you know, you have to think energetically at some point too. Like, what happens with that stuff when it's all put inside the body? How does it manifest? How can it be created? I think there's a lot of different elements that contribute to it. But that's what I mean in like the healing part, I just, I take responsibility. I take some responsibility in this, in that. Not like I would ever consciously choose this for myself. But I like to walk down the road of feeling like there are some things that I can undo, even if that's just feeling better about myself. My body might not change, but I feel better about who I am.

[Christina Applegate]

Yeah, I think there is something to all of the, you know, Maria and some other friends introduced me to a lot of this kind of breath work, things that I thought were, quite frankly, sort of a shoulder shrug. I was like, I've been breathing my whole life, girl. I don't need you to tell me how to do it. And then all of a sudden, I tried one. One breath work session with some person on Zoom. And when I was done, it was 10 minutes. It was exactly as she told me to. I exploded in tears. And I said, what? What was that? And she said, it was stress. And I said I'd never. This was. This was simply doing a breathing exercise. So when my fiance at the time came home, I said to him, lay on the couch. He played rugby, broke his nose like five times. You know, finance. Anyway, he's on the couch.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I go, I love that you're like, he played rugby. Finance, Finance.

[Christina Applegate]

He's like that guy. Anyway, he's on the couch and I tell him, I go, I want you to do this breathing technique. I just did it. And he goes, what are you talking about? I'm hungry. Like, yeah, just a minute. So it was lower belly, high chest and out all through your mouth. Like. So he starts doing it. He goes, I'm feeling lightheaded. I said, that's normal. Keep going. He goes, I don't. I feel cottonmouth. I said, that's normal. Six minutes into it, this man, Broken nose, rugby, finance.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Finance.

[Christina Applegate]

Exploded into tears. He jumped off the couch and he said, what was that? And I said. They said, it's stress. I don't know. But what it was telling me is something so simple that I don't even know what the stress was, nor did I care. It wasn't in me anymore. But it got me thinking about other ways, even for your own mental health, to free yourself, to free up a little bit. And like you said, there are lots of routes in who knows what's what or what works. But my philosophy is always, if it can't hurt, then try it. Sorry, Christina, what were you gonna say?

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

No, no, no. Because. No. Cause. And I just think we get in trouble if we talk over each other, so. Not just with our producer.

You go first.

[Christina Applegate]

You go.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

No, I was just going to say, because what I was thinking when you were talking about that is when I had breast cancer, I was coming out of an incredibly horrible, stressful, personal situation. Now, yes, I'm Baraka, but come on. Right? And what they're seeing now, and Jamie and I have talked about this, and we're not doctors, and nor do we claim to be. I do, in my own mind, completely think I'm a doctor. But that's a whole other thing that they're seeing, that. That trauma and. And certain types of personalities are those people that are getting Ms. Because there's scars on our brain. It's scars, right. So something has been broken, something has been cut, something has been hurt. And. Or in Jamie's case, you know, mine are all in my brain. That's all I know. Yeah, but we've had people on our show, this beautiful doctor or clinician about trauma that was so huge for both of us about what that does to us, not just in the physical sense, you know, but what it does to every part of our life, how we operate in the world. It just. I mean, we all know that, but when you really can, like, get it to be finite, it. It's really just. It gives it less power.

It does. Yeah. I found meditation really helps, too.

[Christina Applegate]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I was actually talking to my son recently about meditation, because he was asking me about it. He said, what do you think of when you meditate? And I said, well, I'm trying not to think. But he's like, well, what do you see? And I was like, well, there is a visualization I have very often, and it's me running again on a beach towards my children. And it's beautiful. It is my greatest wish, and I love it. And he said to me, mommy, are you sad when you wake up? Because you can. And I said, no, I'm actually so happy because that was real. In my meditation, when I run to you, it felt real in every cell of my body, and no one can take that away from me while. Yes, now I'm going to struggle to get up and limp towards the kitchen and make you your snack. I just ran to you for 20 minutes, and it's become my favorite part of the day. Whether it's another dimension, an altered reality, or I'm just crazy. Whatever it is, it's. It's medicine.

[Christina Applegate]

Okay, Christina's down. It's over.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Yeah, she's back. Oh, okay. We gotta take over. She can't. She's not. We gotta give her a minute before she sits back up. Oh's got it down already.

[Christina Applegate]

Oh, my God. Wow. That was profound and beautiful, you guys. I was. I don't know what I was expecting out of this conversation, but it surpassed it by about a hundredfold. So I want people to tune into messy because if it's which it is, because I've listened to some of your episodes, people are in for a real treat. All right, I love you guys.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

We love you.

[Christina Applegate]

Have a good one.

[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

Guys, look, we're gonna get to New York soon to come see you, okay?

[Christina Applegate]

Okay. I'll be here waiting for you. All right, Bye, guys.

[Unknown]

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Alison Berger and Alexa Casavecia, along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineers are Katie Lau and Mark Yoshi Zumi. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Leish is the executive vice president of today and lifestyle.

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[Jamie Lynn Sigler]

I mean, the denim section is unreal.

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[Unknown]

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