← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Elle Macpherson on Her Celebration Phase
00:37:51
Elle Macpherson is a supermodel, actress, and entrepreneur. Nicknamed "The Body" at the height of her modeling career, Macpherson appeared to have it all - but looking back, she says she didn't appreciate herself in her twenties and thirties, struggling with addiction and eventually entering rehab for alcoholism. Macpherson's sobriety renewed her commitment to health, and in 2014 she launched her wellness brand, WelleCo. Just three years later, after being diagnosed with breast cancer, she underwent two lumpectomies and chose a holistic approach over conventional treatment. Macpherson sat down with Hoda to talk about her career, her wellness journey and why she feels more alive than ever.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:08]
Hoda Kotb
My guest today is someone who truly embodies what it means to be beautiful inside and out in the world of fashion. She's iconic, synonymous with elegance, with the spirit and light that shines from within. Let me tell you, this woman is a force. Elle McPherson's a supermodel actress entrepreneur with a career spanning more than 40 years. For decades, Elle was on top of the world. The Aussie known as the Body was everywhere from the Runway to magazines, TV shows like Friends and movies like Batman and Robin. She was even the first model to host snl. A successful businesswoman and mother of two, Elle appeared to have it all. But behind that seemingly perfect smile, Elle was struggling with perfectionism, self image and addiction. And now she's opening up about her personal battles in her memoir entitled Life Lessons and Learning to Trust Yourself. She shares her story beautifully and vulnerably, both the good times and the bad. Her insights and lessons learned. She reflects on her struggles, including alcoholism, which eventually landed her in rehab, and how getting sober led to a spiritual awakening and renewed her commitment to health and wellness. In 2014, Elle started her own wellness company, WellCo, and in 2017, after being diagnosed with breast cancer and having two lumpectomies, she chose to go against her doctor's suggestions for conventional treatment, opting for a holistic approach. Today, Elle is in clinical remission and celebrating wellness in all aspects of her life, saying she has Never felt better than she does now. Elle's humor, honesty, and open heart are inspiring. Her story is one of authenticity, transformation, and real beauty. And, of course, the importance of always trusting yourself. I know you'll love this conversation and Elle as much as I do. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space.
- [03:15]
Elle Macpherson
Two seconds of.
- [03:19]
Interviewee
How was that? Two seconds?
- [03:20]
Elle Macpherson
Was it good, that centering breath before you do anything important. And I believe being here with you is important. Gosh, it's changed my life.
- [03:29]
Interviewee
When did that start? When did you become aware that you needed something more than go, go, go.
- [03:34]
Elle Macpherson
When go, go, go wasn't working, you know, like, it's a bit like a bull in a china shop. And then I realized that if I just take a beat, take a breath, a long, slow, deep breath, connect to my heart, it calms me down, and I'm able to center myself and I'm able to speak from that place instead of the frenetic noise, spinning. And especially, you know, you're an intelligent woman. You're a career woman. When you're used to managing so much, it's really easy just to be stuck in your head, and that's not a comfortable place to be.
- [04:09]
Interviewee
No.
- [04:09]
Elle Macpherson
A lot of the time, I was.
- [04:11]
Interviewee
Talking to a friend of mine, and he was saying, you know, after I had told him about my decision, you know, to move on from the decision. Thank you. He said, the first part of your life's about learning. The second part's about earning, and the third part's about something different. It's about giving back or service, your spiritual awakening, all these things that come in the third portion. And I was a little afraid of the third portion of my life, but I'm realizing that the third portion is, like, rich and exciting. And how did you find that part of your life or how are you finding it?
- [04:47]
Elle Macpherson
I'm finding this. This phase, this new rebirth, let's call it, in my 60s. Just beautiful, joyful, alive, inspiring. And, you know, service is a huge part of it. And that is one of the reasons that I wrote my book and why I founded Wilco in my 50s. And I've found that helping others and expressing my true uniqueness, in essence has been really liberating after having spent so much of my life sort of being something for somebody else.
- [05:23]
Interviewee
Oh, that's good.
- [05:24]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [05:24]
Interviewee
Oh, that's it. That's the whole thing, isn't it?
- [05:26]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [05:27]
Interviewee
You finally got to do something for yourself. Wellco, I want to hear about this company because I admire, first of all, that you started it in your 50s. People know you. They know you well. They think they know you well, but they know a part of you.
- [05:41]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [05:41]
Interviewee
To embark on starting a new company, how did you have the confidence? How did you, you know, Because I'm starting something new. I'm like, there's so many things I don't know. But how did you decide that this.
- [05:52]
Hoda Kotb
Was the right move for you?
- [05:53]
Elle Macpherson
It wasn't really a decision to start a company. It was a decision to share what I had learned along the way. And so when I turned 50, my body sent me a signal, and that was that the things that I'd always been doing were not working anymore. And I wasn't feeling vibrant, alive. My skin changed, my hair changed. I was putting on weight. I realized I couldn't rely on genetics anymore. I had to make some changes in my life. Not only lifestyle, but the way I was nourishing myself, nourishing myself in my environment, my relationships with people, nourishing myself. How I was speaking to myself about myself. And as I'm going through this journey, realizing I need to find a solution to this phase in my life that may or may not have been menopause, I suppose it was. I wasn't focusing on that at the time. I had to find solutions because I didn't want to just feel like this was the decline. I wanted a rebirth. I wanted to find new ways of doing things and new ways of being in my life. And as I went down that road of discovery, I found that my body was very malnourished. And I went to see a nutritionist and a naturopath. And I saw such a turnaround in everything, not only my body, but in my attitude to life. And that was the thing that I wanted to change. I wanted that sense of vitality. And so when I experienced that, I thought to myself, there must be other women that must be going through this.
- [07:21]
Interviewee
Yes.
- [07:22]
Elle Macpherson
And that's when I set about saying, okay, I'm going to form a business that shares the tools and the knowledge. And the inspiration that I found along the way in my 50s was recognizing the importance of or the connection between beauty and wellness as opposed to beauty and youth. And that was my 50s kind of revelation.
- [07:43]
Interviewee
Can we go back? So you were an alcoholic. Is that fair to say?
- [07:47]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah, that's what you say. I'm Ellen. I'm an alcoholic. That's what you say at an AA meeting. I was feeling disconnected with myself, disconnected with my life. I wanted to find a higher purpose. I wanted to find a true Essence within myself. When you're drinking and you're numb to your feelings, it's very difficult to find anything, let alone be in the present. So I think that I was trying to fix myself emotionally and spiritually so I didn't have to do it physically. But ultimately in order to have that also rebirth. It is an emotional, physical and spiritual kind of change that needs to occur in order to be free.
- [08:30]
Interviewee
Isn't it funny that I was thinking about when I was younger and I'm sure you too, like you were on top of the world, or so it seemed. It must have, must have felt like, my gosh, I mean, we went through all of your accolades at the top of the show, including like the first supermodel to ever host SNL and all the other things. I mean, everyone wanted to be near you, just around you, in your orbit. How did you feel yourself during that time?
- [08:55]
Elle Macpherson
Like I was juggling, just trying to do a good job. I wasn't standing back and going, wow, look how amazing my life is. I do that today, every day. I'm going, wow, what an extraordinary life I'm having in the simplicity of it. At that time, I think I was just really focused on doing a good job and being the best I could in every situation and putting myself under enormous amount of pressure in order to perform not only for myself, but for others.
- [09:28]
Interviewee
Were you a pleaser then?
- [09:30]
Elle Macpherson
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, people pleaser. Until I became a pleaser of my own dreams.
- [09:36]
Interviewee
I feel like women listening are in that trap of people pleasing. Cause I mean, for myself too, I don't think I knew what I was worth into my 50s. I think in every job I ever had, I was always making less, if not half as much as my male counterpart and thinking that that was good enough. Good enough was my enough at that time. But how does one go from like feeling like you wanna please everyone to saying, now it's my turn?
- [10:06]
Elle Macpherson
I think it's a cyclical thing. You know, we go through phases. There's puberty and then adolescence and then womanhood and motherhood and then wise woman, which is where we are today. It's a beautiful phase to be in. I felt that it was my. And I still do believe in nurturing. And so I nurtured all the relationships I was in except the relationship with myself. And it's taken a long time for me to incrementally weave self nurturing habits into my life and attitudes into my life. But I wasn't really in the situation that you were in because being a model it's the opposite. We earn twice as much as the guys. So you go, so that was not, you know, but I did feel that I owed. I had to show up and be amazing because I was paid to do that. And I didn't know what amazing was, but I gave it my best shot.
- [11:05]
Interviewee
How did you do all the things like, please everyone there? You had kids. You have, you know, life outside. How did you work all of that?
- [11:15]
Elle Macpherson
One day at a time. The kids were always my priority, and you know that. Now you see how the love that you feel for your children and unconditional love that you feel for your children and the responsibility we have to be a wise guide for our children, and that doesn't mean being there 247 with them. I remember leaving the boys often, and I would never say to them, I'm so sad Mommy has to go away to work, and, you know, this is not gonna be a good time for us. I always would celebrate leaving. I would say, okay, here's the scoop. I'm going away doing what I love, and while I'm gone, you're gonna be doing lots of the things that you love. And together when we come back, we're gonna share what we learned while we were gone.
- [12:00]
Interviewee
Oh, I love it.
- [12:01]
Elle Macpherson
And so the kids had this sort of excited anticipation for the time where they were gonna be learning new things without me sort of helicopter mumming above them, where they learned, you know, what their own boundaries were without a parent or me particularly telling them what and how to do things.
- [12:20]
Interviewee
Who taught you how to be a mother life?
- [12:24]
Elle Macpherson
Well, I mean, my mother was a very young mother. She was 17 when she became pregnant. She was 18 when she had me. She had three kids. By the time she was 22, she had a hands full. There was a whole bunch of barely coping, I think, with so many kids. Well, not so many kids, but being a young mom. And also, my father was away working. My mother helped my father in his work, so she had her hands full. And I learned that multitasking doesn't really work with kids or life in general. You know, we've. Multitasking is so brilliant. I can do this, and I can do that. But ultimately, focused attention is really where the joy and the magic is in. No matter what we're doing, being in the present in the now, being focused exactly on what you're doing. So when I'm with my kids, there's no phones. I'm not trying to do business. At the same time, I'm not having a phone call with a friend. I'm not having a secondary conversation with somebody else. I'm not trying to get dressed, going for work. I'm actually just with them.
- [13:29]
Interviewee
That's so important.
- [13:30]
Elle Macpherson
And even if it's for three minutes, that focus time is so valuable. And I think women feel so guilty that they're not spending enough time with their children when really it's quality, not quantity of time.
- [13:47]
Interviewee
How do they describe you as a mother, your kids?
- [13:52]
Elle Macpherson
I don't know. So now they're men, right? 22 and 27. And I think they have really enjoyed the celebration phase that I'm in at this point in my life where I sort of don't care so much. You know, I can throw caution to the wind and, you know, they might think I'm a little wackadoodle or whatever like that, but there's a freedom that I think they witness me experiencing that freedom and the willingness to think outside the box and try new things and, and not really be so concerned that everything has to be perfect. And for me, demonstrating that in my life gives them permission to be like that as well.
- [14:42]
Hoda Kotb
More with Elle McPherson after the break.
- [14:55]
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- [15:27]
Child
Katie's project, Dan's bake sale. Emma has a test tomorrow.
- [15:30]
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- [15:32]
Father
Managing the house while mama's gone is not easy. But did you know that now Walmart pharmacy has prescription delivery straight to your door.
- [15:38]
Child
Wait, what? Really?
- [15:39]
Elle Macpherson
Yep.
- [15:40]
Father
Just upload your prescription to the Walmart app and keep doing your thing. We'll bring your groceries and prescriptions all in one bag and straight to your your door.
- [15:46]
Child
Thanks, dad.
- [15:47]
When does mom come back? In 38 hours and 47 minutes.
- [15:51]
Father
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- [15:58]
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- [16:11]
Interviewee
Bye. Do you have. Is there a guru, a person, somebody who you look toward as like your kind of spiritual guide or someone who helps you along the way?
- [16:29]
Elle Macpherson
I work with a guy called Paul Walsh, and he wrote a book, From Atoms to Angels. And I talk about that in my book. And I've worked with him for about 20 years, on and off in all sorts of areas in my life, and I check in with him regularly. And he's been a wonderful guide in business, in my own emotional, spiritual, and physical development. And he's wonderful because he has an incredible sense of humor. He takes life seriously, but not solemnly. And he's taught me the value of that and many other things. And so I urge listeners to check him out and to read about how he's influenced my life in my book.
- [17:08]
Interviewee
You know, for. I know breast cancer is part of your journey, as it was part of mine. And when I was reading about your breast cancer journey, you know, that that sort of diagnosis hit you out of left field. It's like so left field, right?
- [17:22]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [17:22]
Interviewee
It's like the phone call that comes and you go, you, this can't be right. I mean, how can you be perfectly fine on Monday and then on Tuesday someone tells you there's a wrecking ball going through you? Like it made no sense. How did you handle the initial diagnosis?
- [17:35]
Elle Macpherson
Oh, gosh, it was a shock. And also, remember, I had been sober for 10 years or more, maybe 15 years. My lifestyle seemed quite clean, and I felt like I was sporty and, you know, I had a healthy lifestyle. So wait a second, how does. How me, of all people. And then I went into sort of let's fix it mode. How can I. How can I fix it? And that was a whole other sort of a type personality and being absolutely rigorous in research and trying to make the best decision I possibly could for myself and for my children along the way. And it's confusing.
- [18:17]
Interviewee
Yeah, well, the world is full of confusion. And I went through the breast cancer journey, and they kind of flippantly said, well, you're not gonna be able to have kids. So, you know, like, you know, like as if it's.
- [18:26]
Elle Macpherson
Whatever. Yeah.
- [18:27]
Interviewee
Anyway, sorry about that. And I remember after my diagnosis, I went to three other specialists, I had a mastectomy, and one doctor said, you need chemo. One said, you don't need chemo. And one said, you can't make a mistake either way. And I Looked at these three people. One person said, you'll be dead if you don't do it.
- [18:44]
Elle Macpherson
Yep, I had a lot of that.
- [18:46]
Interviewee
I couldn't believe it. I mean, I have chills right now thinking about it. And I remembered thinking, if I can put my head on the pillow and sleep, you know, it wasn't in my lymph nodes, and my decision was clear. I went to sleep on my pillow. I did not do chemotherapy, and. And it was right for me.
- [19:04]
Elle Macpherson
Yes, you did what was right for you.
- [19:06]
Interviewee
And everyone seemed to want to weigh in, But I totally understood everything you said.
- [19:11]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah, I loved that, that you had had that experience and you understood because very few people have. There's been a lot of judgment around my decision, but, you know, I had to live with the decision that I made, not anybody else. And it was right for the kind of cancer that I had and for my character and for my body. I felt that very deeply. But the hardest part was the indecision prior to making the decision. Once I made the decision, then it was just a question of executing the protocols. And they were numerous. 110%. And that I'm good at. You know, I am disciplined, and I am very rigorous. You know, give me a task to do, and I will do it. But I was very confused. I didn't know what was the right thing to do. And there wasn't a clear path forward. There was no one doctor said, if you do this, you'll be 100% okay. Whether it was chemo, whether it was radiation, whether it was mastectomy, whether it was more natural. So you have to check in with yourself and listen to your heart, because your heart will never lead you astray. It will know what is right for you, and it's just trusting that. And that takes time to build a relationship with your heart, with your inner knowing, with your intuition, so that you can trust it.
- [20:31]
Interviewee
Hey, how do you feel, by the way?
- [20:33]
Elle Macpherson
Amazing. I have been, you know, no signs of cancer in the last eight years, seven years, so. And I keep a very, very healthy lifestyle based on the protocol that I learned. It was such a catalyst for me.
- [20:46]
Interviewee
Right.
- [20:47]
Elle Macpherson
It was really one of the most wonderful experiences. And I know people might be having a knitted brow going, how can you say that? But it was so. I learned so much during this period, and a lot of what I learned during my diagnosis and the remedies, I've continued, and I have a very, very healthy, happy life and lifestyle.
- [21:09]
Interviewee
So it changed a lot of how you live your life. How did it Change you completely. Other than those physical things.
- [21:16]
Elle Macpherson
Well, I vowed I would never speak badly about myself again. You know, like, how mean have I been to myself? And when I saw the incredible capacity of my body to heal, I have such respect for it now, and I would never treat it or speak to it badly like I have done in the past. And. And all the things that I thought was so important paled into insignificance when you are faced with the potential life and death situation, whether it was real or not. But it was.
- [21:50]
Interviewee
It puts you there.
- [21:51]
Elle Macpherson
It was right there. And so suddenly, things that I thought were so important became not so important, and it focused on what truly was important in life.
- [22:00]
Interviewee
You know, it's funny. I was diagnosed when I was working at Dateline, and nobody ever saw me as anything other than hop on a plane, go to Rikers, interview the person, you know, blah, blah, blah. And after the diagnosis and after the surgery, I literally woke up from my bed, like, in a start. And I got, you can't scare me. I was like, what am I afraid of now? So I went to 30 Rock. I hit 52 on the elevator bank. I went up to where those guys are that I've never seen because they all sit up there. And I said, I don't know if you even know me, but let me tell you what happened to me. And I went on this whole spiel. I go, they're starting a new hour of the Today show. I want that. I think I could do that. He was kind of looking at me like, what? Three weeks later, I'm walking on 6th Avenue. My phone rings, and they offer me the job. I was like, so it unleashed courage and things. Like, what? Was I waiting for someone to notice me?
- [23:01]
Hoda Kotb
I'm working at my desk.
- [23:02]
Interviewee
Are they gonna see me?
- [23:03]
Hoda Kotb
Of course.
- [23:03]
Interviewee
Or not?
- [23:04]
Elle Macpherson
I've just got chills. That's such a beautiful story. And that's what it does when you realize that the biggest fear we have is cancer and death. And so when you can get through those two things, nothing is a problem. And so if you want that job, go ask for that job.
- [23:23]
Interviewee
Yes.
- [23:28]
Hoda Kotb
More ahead with Elle McPherson's day. Stay with us.
- [23:36]
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- [23:58]
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- [24:07]
Child
Okay, we've got Katie's project, Dan's bake sale. Emma has a test tomorrow.
- [24:11]
Whole Foods Market Ad
Uh, sweetie, I'm out of my blood pressure meds.
- [24:14]
Father
Managing the house while mama's gone is not easy. But did you know that now Walmart pharmacy has prescription delivery straight to your door.
- [24:20]
Child
Wait, what?
- [24:21]
Elle Macpherson
Really?
- [24:21]
Whole Foods Market Ad
Yep.
- [24:21]
Father
Just upload your prescription to the Walmart app and keep doing your thing. We'll bring your groceries and prescriptions all in one bag and straight to your door.
- [24:28]
Child
Thanks, dad.
- [24:29]
When does mom come back? In 38 hours and 47 minutes.
- [24:33]
Father
Now your pharmacy comes to you. Welcome to your Walmart delivery. Not available for all prescriptions. Exclusions apply.
- [24:42]
McDonald's Ad
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- [24:59]
Interviewee
I want to talk a little bit more about Wellco.
- [25:01]
Hoda Kotb
There are things that you are putting into your body that your body was.
- [25:05]
Interviewee
Lacking, whether through menopause or something.
- [25:07]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [25:08]
Interviewee
What was the depletion and what did you need?
- [25:11]
Elle Macpherson
So Wellco is a plant based nutritional collection of powders that you can add to water or to milk to supplement your. Your body. And we have 11 systems in our body that need nutrients. And especially as you go through menopause, we need more protein, more collagen, more vitamin C. You know, we really need supplementation because our body's going through a huge change and we need to support it.
- [25:42]
Interviewee
Sure.
- [25:43]
Elle Macpherson
And I wasn't doing that. And I didn't realize I was unwittingly sort of malnourished. And I had never really thought about nutrition as fuel for change or fuel for growth. I just sort of thought calories in, calories out. That was what nutrition was for me. And it wasn't really a source of fuel for the body to function optimally. And if we are functioning, if our body's functioning well, our emotions and our mental capacities and our spiritual wellbeing becomes also more aligned because we're not struggling with trying to just get through the day. Our bodies are more balanced and everything else comes into balance.
- [26:32]
Interviewee
What do you do with thoughts? Do you chase them away? Do you let them come? What do you do?
- [26:38]
Elle Macpherson
Thoughts are just like clouds. That's the way I see them. They come and they go. And I remember Always, many wise philosophers and sages and wise people have said, what you focus on grows. So if you're. You know, for me, it's like, focus on what you want in your life, not what you don't want. And so if I find myself relentlessly thinking about something that is painful, scary, worrying, I know that I'm creating it by obsessing about it.
- [27:16]
Interviewee
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:16]
Elle Macpherson
Because we are the ultimate creators.
- [27:18]
Interviewee
Yes.
- [27:19]
Elle Macpherson
So when I catch myself doing it, I go, oh, that's interesting. There you go again, trying to create the future you don't want. Let's create the future you do want. And so I transmute it. I alchemize it into. I know today's gonna go really well with Hoda. We're have a great conversation, and what a joy to be asked to be on, rather than going, oh, gosh, what if I can't answer the questions? What if I sound stupid? So I just. I'm constantly diverting my thoughts. And also, the other thing is that we're not our thoughts. They're not reality. They're just passing, you know, so don't get attached to them.
- [27:59]
Interviewee
A friend of mine was trying to lose weight, and she kept saying, I got to lose weight. I got to lose weight. I got to lose weight. And she said that somebody said to her something similar, and she goes, I'm going to get healthy. It's like, what are you getting? Not, what are you losing?
- [28:13]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [28:13]
Interviewee
It's like skiing and saying, I hope I don't fall. I hope I don't fall. It's like, I hope I glide. I hope I glide.
- [28:19]
Elle Macpherson
Or even put it into the present. I am getting healthy. I am choosing to make healthy choices in my life.
- [28:26]
Interviewee
Yes.
- [28:26]
Elle Macpherson
I am gliding through the snow.
- [28:28]
Father
Yes.
- [28:29]
Interviewee
Look at me. I'm doing is. Once you get that mindset going, bringing.
- [28:33]
Elle Macpherson
It into the present, not as a wish or a dream or a hope.
- [28:37]
Interviewee
Ah. Like, it's happening right now.
- [28:39]
Elle Macpherson
It's happening right now. Yeah.
- [28:41]
Interviewee
Is this your favorite decade by far? Is it really?
- [28:44]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah, it really is. I was. I mean, I was speaking with someone the other day, and I was saying, you know, I saw pictures of me, you know, when I was in my 20s and 30s, when I didn't appreciate myself. And I look and I think I was. I was a bombshell. I was so gorgeous. But I didn't realize it at the time. I just felt awkward and inadequate and out of place and inexperienced. And today I feel so alive and vibrant and excited by life that I'm not focused on my Skin texture necessarily. I'm focused on the energy I feel and that I can give and share with other people. And it's way more rewarding, let me tell you, than, you know, looking at old photographs of myself.
- [29:39]
Interviewee
It's funny, I'm sure a lot of women listening will, because we all in some way look back to the days that we thought, oh gosh, you know, I'm wearing two sweatshirts thinking that I'm heavy and I look and I'm like, oh my God, I was skinny then.
- [29:52]
Elle Macpherson
I was worried about it.
- [29:53]
Interviewee
But do you think that you're in that number with the rest of us who felt that way about their bodies? Even a supermodel? Even you?
- [30:00]
Elle Macpherson
Absolutely. You know, there have been so many times that I. And now what I do is I remember when I see something, even I saw something the other day, I was like, man, I'm really looking 61 at the moment. I said to myself, you know, when I'm 65, I'm going to be looking at those pictures when I was 61 and going, I looked pretty good back then. I looked hot. So it's to remind ourselves that, you know, there's always phases of our life where we can be our most beautiful if we choose to see it that way. And that's what I'm choosing to do today.
- [30:33]
Interviewee
When you give talks to women, I was just sitting here thinking, God, I would love to. I mean, I feel like I'm obviously in one. But when you're giving, I don't know, a commencement address or speaking to women or whatever, what do you try, what's the thing you try to impart upon people?
- [30:50]
Elle Macpherson
That's such a good question. I encourage, I wish to encourage and inspire people to be their unique self and bring their unique gifts into the world and to trust themselves and to see the beauty within themselves and bring that into the world. Because the world needs that. We need all the diversity we can get and all the open heart, open hearted, open minded people we can get. And I try to inspire people to. Well, I choose to inspire people to find that within themselves and to bring it forward and to trust it.
- [31:32]
Interviewee
You were talking about life and you sometimes see it in decades, which I thought was interesting. And I was thinking the same. Cause my 50s was where I got my kids and figured out my relationship status and all those kinds of things. And my 60s I had this whole kind of repotting thing. And I remember when I was working here and it was my 60th birthday and they threw a big party and I was on the plaza. And I remember Elle with all clarity in the world, feeling like I was on top of the wave.
- [32:06]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [32:07]
Interviewee
And this was the top. Like, I knew it. I cried during that party because I knew it. I knew this is as good as it gets. I wasn't like, but maybe next year.
- [32:19]
Hoda Kotb
This was the.
- [32:20]
Interviewee
You, you know when you're at the mountaintop, and then you also know that it's time for something else. So I was kind of. I was celebrating and mourning. Like, I could feel both things happening.
- [32:31]
Hoda Kotb
And I started.
- [32:32]
Interviewee
Maria said to me, you're repotting. You're not. You're repot. You're pulling yourself up by the roots. You're scared. Of course you're scared.
- [32:37]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah.
- [32:38]
Interviewee
And I said, I wonder if I could do it. And she said, let me tell you about your history of repotting. I said, tell me. She goes, you've done it a million times. You move from city to city. You, you repotted into motherhood in your 50s. You. You've repotted into and out of relationships. Don't tell me you can't do it. You've done it. This is just a big one in this moment. So my 60s feels like a whole repotting era for me. I don't know what my 60s is going to hold, but I think it's in that lane. When you think about your 60s, how do you see this decade or how do you hope to see it unfold as you go?
- [33:12]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah, it's a continual rebirth. I'm discovering parts of myself that I didn't know existed or didn't choose to see in the past. I feel incredibly free. I love inadvertently sort of being in this place where I'm doing way more podcasts. I'm openly sharing about things that I never really shared about before because I didn't think they were valuable or meaningful or had any purpose to them or they were too personal or, you know, my job was just to look good and not to really speak about anything. You know, create strong businesses for people or myself. And so these years, for me, well, I'm 60. It's only been a year. I'm turning six years next week. But it's been amazing because I launched my book. Yes, I Am. I'm in a loving relationship. I've been in a loving relationship for the last few years. But every day is like a rebirth. My children are out of the home. My son graduates from university in May, and my other son is working. They both have their own apartments, and I feel free to explore all the things that I never knew I could do. And I'll tell you a funny story. So I got a call the other day from. Oh, I probably can't say it because it might come out before I have to keep it a secret, but I did get a call to do a TV show doing something that I don't do.
- [34:51]
Interviewee
Okay.
- [34:51]
Hoda Kotb
I already liked it and really out.
- [34:53]
Elle Macpherson
Of my comfort zone. And I just went, let's give it a go.
- [34:57]
Interviewee
Yes.
- [34:58]
Elle Macpherson
Yeah. And my kids laughed at me and was like, mom, you can't do that. And I'm like, watch me, I'm doing it. Yeah. And just for fun, you know, for the joy of doing it, because it moved my heart.
- [35:07]
Interviewee
I love that. I love that.
- [35:09]
Elle Macpherson
And so I love being that woman that can have a laugh about life, realize that life is not laughing at me, that I'm laughing with life. And I love being the woman that can, as I said before, take life seriously, but not solemnly.
- [35:25]
Interviewee
And also, I think what you said, that you're in a loving relationship. I think the idea of loving again is for many women who are listening, especially women of our age, because I've thought about it too. It's like, is that chapter still available to me? You think?
- [35:44]
Elle Macpherson
Yes, absolutely.
- [35:45]
Interviewee
How does, like, you know, after you've been through things with, you know, in life, sometimes you're thinking, my life feels rich and full. Is there room? How much room do I have? Should I make more room? Like, what's your advice when it comes to dating at this stage?
- [36:03]
Elle Macpherson
Well, you're in your head. If you're like trying to put it into some sort of equation of time, what it is, is like, I'm feeling so open hearted and if there's somebody there that wants to share in my joy and wants to bring joy, bring it on, bring it on. Because that is what you know. It doesn't mean that the only way to enjoy life is to be with somebody. In fact, I met my partner when both of us were absolutely sovereign in our autonomy. We were having a relationship with ourselves, independently, with God. And there was absolutely no need for a you complete me type of scenario because we were just working on our stuff and really enjoying it. And then when you meet two people who are on a similar frequency that have done the work within themselves and feel complete, they the complete masculine, the complete feminine within themselves. And you meet each other where it's not a question of I needed him and he needed me. But you meet on this, on a soul level. There is nothing more beautiful than that. And we don't need each other. Look, we're not creating a family together. We're not creating a business together. Our parents are not suggesting it's a good time. I'm not procreating years. So it's like we're purely together because we enjoy each other's company and we share everything.
- [37:30]
Interviewee
How would you describe the love? Like, you've had different loves in your life, but how would you describe the.
- [37:34]
Elle Macpherson
Greatest love of my life, other than my children and alongside my children? Because it is unconditional. And I learned about unconditional love with my children. And I know you know what that feels like, because nothing feels like the love that you have for your children. And so there is complete allowance. Allow him to be who he is. Allow me to be who I am. Kindness, patience, non judgment. It's so freeing to be in a relationship like that. But I couldn't be there unless I'd done the work on myself.
- [38:11]
Interviewee
Yes.
- [38:12]
Elle Macpherson
And it's worth it. Gosh, love is always worth it.
- [38:16]
Interviewee
Yes. God, I feel so good. I feel really good. That's been the one little corner of my life that I've thought a lot about recently. And I said, I feel like my buckets are filling up, but not the one.
- [38:29]
Elle Macpherson
No. I really believe just because of the place you're in, you're going to meet somebody and they're just going to come into your life and it's going to fit like a glove, and you're going to go, wow, to think I was scared of this. Like, to think I was scared of going up to the 52nd floor and asking the guys for the job. To think I was scared that I might die of cancer. And you'll say, I was scared of love. I didn't think I had place for love. I will find the right love, person, love match. I'm going to find it. Universe is going to send you such an incredible soul that is going to be with you and walk with you on this journey for as long or as little as you want, and it is going to be so fulfilling.
- [39:08]
Interviewee
That is so beautiful. God, I loved our conversation. Okay, so I usually end our conversations with this question. So this podcast is called Making Space. So if you had a day that was only for you, there were no obligations. You could do whatever you want. You could fill it the way you want, you could wake up when you want, you could do nothing all day, stay in your pajamas or whatever and end the day the way you liked it. How would you feel that day?
- [39:35]
Elle Macpherson
I believe every day is like that for me, you know, I really live through my heart every day and I never feel that I have obligations or even though I have things that I love to do. You know, whether it's going to work or showing up in New York to be with you, every day feels like it is a ceremony and a celebration of life. No matter what I'm doing, it isn't dependent on what I'm doing. It's dependent on the attitude I have and the gratitude. The attitude and the gratitude, like that's going to bring me to tears is because when you feel that, everything feels beautiful no matter what you do, no matter how you spend it. And that part about being in your heart is just such a joyful, freeing place to be.
- [40:24]
Interviewee
My gosh, that was beautiful. El, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
- [40:36]
Hoda Kotb
Hey, guys, thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Casabecchia along with Kate Saunders, our associate authority. Our audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Leach is the executive vice president of today and Lifestyle.
- [41:30]
Child
Okay, we've got Katie's project, Dan's bake sale. Emma has a test tomorrow.
- [41:34]
Whole Foods Market Ad
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- [41:36]
Father
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- [41:43]
Child
Wait, what? Really?
- [41:44]
Elle Macpherson
Yep.
- [41:44]
Father
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- [41:50]
Child
Thanks, dad.
- [41:51]
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- [41:55]
Father
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