← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Goldie Hawn on Hollywood, Happiness and Mental Health
00:49:25
Goldie Hawn is a Hollywood legend. And while she never set out to be a movie star, the Academy Award winning actress, producer and director has had a career spanning more than five decades, with iconic roles in films like “Overboard”, “Private Benjamin” and “The First Wives Club”. And while she is beloved for her work on-screen, she is also making an impact off-screen, with her charity MindUp, created with a mission to promote mental health and fitness for children. Goldie sat down with Hoda Kotb to talk about her accidental rise to fame, her famous family and where she finds her purpose.
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- [00:00]
Goldie Hawn
Hi neighbor.
- [00:01]
Hoda Kotb
Welcome to Birch Lane.
- [00:02]
Goldie Hawn
Our timeless furniture and decor is hand picked and crafted to bring joy for years to come. So get ready to celebrate it all. From big holiday gatherings to everyday moments at home. Decorate the mantel, gather around the table and bring fall to every room. Plus, it's all delivered fast and free. Shop classic style for Joyful living@birchlane.com Here's a life hack for waking up the.
- [00:29]
Hoda Kotb
Whole house without an alarm.
- [00:31]
Goldie Hawn
Place a skillet over medium heat. Step two, Add some Land O' Lakes butter for a mouth watering sizzle. And now that everyone's up, you might as well make breakfast sandwiches topped with Land O' Lakes cheese. Here's another hack. By buying Land O' Lakes products, It benefits over 1,000 farmer owners and their communities. Find it in the dairy aisle.
- [01:03]
Hoda Kotb
There are some Hollywood legends so iconic that just the sound of their voice or just the mention of their name sends your mind and heart straight to their body of work. For me, Goldie Hawn is one of them. No surprise here. Goldie is an Academy Award winning actress, producer, director, and best selling authority. Now, outside of Hollywood, Goldie is famously a mother and a grandmother. Her blended growing family in many ways feels like America's family. Goldie is also the founder of Mind Up. It's a charity she created to help children lead healthier and happier lives. Goldie joins me today on a trip to New York from California, where she and her partner, Kurt Russell have called home for decades. Goldie and I get into her early years as a dancer. That and the emotional struggles she faced all the way up until life today. Parenthood, grandparenthood, and where she finds purpose, captivating me with that famous voice in every story she tells. Buckle up. Goldie is about to take us on a ride. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. Well, first of all, I'm so happy that you're here. And I'm so happy you're here because you're talking about a topic that I love so much. And you've been preaching this for years and it's all about, it's about mental health and it's about not just for grownups, but for kids. But in order to do that, like you had to find your own kind of mental health space. When did you prioritize it? When did you think it even mattered?
- [02:53]
Goldie Hawn
When I was 11. Okay. And I was like around 11 or 12. All my mom's, you know, friends and everybody, and I remember them asking me, what do you want to be? Do you want to be a ballerina when you grow up. And do you want to be a movie star? Of course, I never want to do that. And I said, I want to be happy at 11. And I thought, why did I say that? You know, I'm questioning me as a young girl. What was it in me that said that? And I still don't know why, except that maybe that being adult felt, like, too serious for me. Maybe I never wanted to be an adult. You know what I'm saying? So happiness was a very big aspect of my life. I was a very happy child. I was very open and I had fun, and I had a wonderful upbringing. But what happened is when I became. I was a dancer, I loved dancing. It was everything to me. I studied it since I was three years old, and I just. That was it. I was a dancer, okay? And then I went to New York, and I got jobs here, of course. I danced a few tables. That was the 60s. And I got $25 a night. And I was thrilled and all of that. But I also was gonna do some Broadway shows, and I had, you know, my plan, okay? And then I got a choreographer that said, would you like to go to la? Because I'm gonna be, you know, choreographing some musicals there. And I went, I'd love to. So I flew out to Los Angeles. I was 19, and I was so excited. I'd never been across the United States of America. And it was just the wildest thing because I was born in Washington, D.C. and New York. That was it, right? And so I get there, I land, I do the show, and it was fantastic. Then I go to Vegas, I do another show in Las Vegas. I dance there. And then I came to call my dad, and I said, dad, what should I do? Because I'm in Vegas now, but we're gonna shut down the show. I was dancing at the Desert Inn, and Daddy said, who was a musician? He said. I said to him, I'd like to go on, like, work with the guys and do an act, you know? And, you know, we could do an act with the musicians and stuff. And he said, look, you're young. The umbilical cord has stretched 3,000 miles, and you need to go back to LA and just keep dancing. You're young and you should do that. So I got in my old squeaky car, I drove back to la, I do an audition, and the audition was the Tennessee Ernie Ford Show.
- [05:26]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [05:28]
Goldie Hawn
And it was Tennessee Union for Don Knotts and Andy Griffith. And I go do the show, and now I'm dancing. It was 12 beautiful girls with me. And we were dancing, right? We were at NBC Studios. And this guy comes up to me and he says, do you have an agent? Well, he was an agent for them. You know, how this. They service you, you know, when you. Whatever. And he was servicing the show. So I looked at him and I said, actually, I don't have an agent. You know, I'm a dancer. And he gave me his card and said, I'd like to see you on this day. Blah, blah, blah, blah, at William Morris. And I went, oh, wow, that's a big agency. But being in New York, being a young girl, I didn't really trust anybody. I mean, he was like, yeah, sure. You know, agent.
- [06:15]
Hoda Kotb
No. Whoa, no problem.
- [06:17]
Goldie Hawn
Well, I totally forgot about it. And I was in my apartment and I got a call. They must have called the studio to get my number or whatever. And they said, Ms. Hahn, I thought you would be in on Wednesday, but we're waiting for you. And so I jumped in my car in where. Oh, my God. This guy was William Morris. This guy really was on it. And he had Wednesday for me. I just put it all out of my head. It was like, put it in my breast bra, whatever. And it was 5, 6, 7, 8. Boom. I just go right back to my dance, and I forgot. So I'm sitting there and he said, I just have a feeling about her. And I'm looking back at these agents, and I'm sort of looking back and forth left and right.
- [06:55]
Hoda Kotb
So this is a big meeting of all the agents.
- [06:57]
Goldie Hawn
It's a big meeting with agents and William Morris Agency, the biggest agency in the business. And I'm sitting there and he's. I just have a few. And then the other guy said, well, you know, she's too young for this. And da, da, da, da. And he said, well, if you believe in her, you know, he said, I just want people to meet her. I just have a feeling, okay? He was a junior agent, okay? So next thing I know, I go to an audition that I was too young for. And I did the audition with Persky and Denoff and all these people at Desilu Studios. And I go in there and I do this audition. I brought my props, which, of course, is so green. Nobody brings their props to an audition. I brought a teapot. Corningware teapot. I remember this day. Anyway, I left and I got a script as well. Cause they gave me sides. And the woman there had it was like Lily Tomlin and laughing hello. Right at a switchboard. Thing back in the day. And she said, oh, dear, you're the first one that's gotten a script all day. And I went, oh, thank you. So I go back, next day, I get a call from my new agent who said, you got the job. I said, what job? No, you got the job. I said, you mean what I just auditioned for? I said, I'm too young for that part. And he said, well, no, they wrote in a part for you.
- [08:15]
Hoda Kotb
They loved you. Well, wow.
- [08:18]
Goldie Hawn
But here's the thing. It's a long story to get up to why I became depressed and anxious. And that's because I didn't want to do that. I was a dancer. I was just getting my feet wet. These dancers, the choreographers, I'm gonna use you for. I called home, I told mom and Dad, I said, listen, I got this job, but he's gonna use me for all these shows. And I'm so excited. And at that point, they said they wrote a pardon for me. And I called home and I said, mom, you're not gonna believe this. You know, they wrote a pardon for me. And then I became anxious and I had little panic attacks. And then I realized every time I'd go into, like, a restaurant or a place, I'd get dizzy and I would wanna go home. And I really. While I was. And it ended up was called Good Morning World. I had to go back to my dressing room to pull myself together because I didn't know when another panic attack was gonna happen. I didn't know whatever. But what I did was, is I went to a psychologist. I went directly because it wasn't me. I mean, I was a happy kid. I was just. Nothing bothered me. I was joyful. I didn't know what happened to my joy. I mean, I lost my. I tried to fake my smile. I'll never forget that. It's the scariest thing that has ever.
- [09:36]
Hoda Kotb
Happened to putting a circle in a square. Was it because you were where you didn't belong? Is that what sparked all of it, you think?
- [09:42]
Goldie Hawn
I don't know, except that it was not my plan. And, you know, I also. I was taken out of a world and put into another world. And I was supposed to really be happy. And mom was like, everybody's all excited and everything. Yeah, everyone was cheering me. I wasn't excited. But the question was, why? And I remember, years ago, it's another story. But I'd say, al cap story, and people have heard it. But I remember this guy picking me up, and he was very nice. I believed Him. I was only in New York for one month, and I was on my way to go to an audition, and I was dancing at the World's Fair at the same time. So I had a gig there, which was great. And he picked me up on the street and he said, look, I don't wanna. I'm not trying to put the make on you. I'm not trying to do any of that. I just wanna let you know that you look like a character that Al Capp created. Who? Very cartoonist back then, very famous. And I knew Lil Abner. I did it in high school. But at the same time, he said, but he's doing a show for cbs, and you look just like a character that he created called Tenderleaf Erickson. And I said, oh, my God, that's amazing. He said, would you like to meet him? I'm sure he'd like to meet you. And I said, well, yeah, I mean, of course. That would be really great. And then I told Mommy, and she wrote me a letter about the casting couch. And she said, I want you to be aware of something. You have your meeting, but just remember that producers will never make you anything. You will only be able to make yourself. You will be successful. And if the audience doesn't like you, then you won't make it. No producer or anyone in the world will be able to do that. But you be prepared. And remember the casting couch, because oftentimes that can happen.
- [11:37]
Hoda Kotb
So what happened?
- [11:38]
Goldie Hawn
She was 100% right. She was right. I went up there and, you know, we had tea. I had to wait for him because, you know, Eric, I remember everybody's name. I was so hyped up, you know. And he said, Mr. Cap really likes his women to pour his tea. Well, all of a sudden, I've been on the street long enough to know. That didn't sound right.
- [12:00]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [12:00]
Goldie Hawn
And then he left, and he got into some, like, you know, a dressing gown.
- [12:04]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, geez.
- [12:05]
Goldie Hawn
And then he put me through all the paces in the script and everything. I was reading, and he actually duped.
- [12:10]
Hoda Kotb
Me a bit because, wait, he was in a. He was like, in a robe while you were reading?
- [12:12]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah, yeah. So I was already uncomfortable, of course. And I remember saying to him, well, that's okay, Mr. Cap. You know, I don't know. I'm really a dancer. And he said, well, we gotta work hard. I said, oh, dancers work really hard. I work really hard. But I didn't feel good. And I wanted to say to him. So I said. I said, well, you know, my mom and dad. You know, I came from, you know, a Jewish mother, and she was, you know, very strong. And I wanted him to know that I was a kind and young and sweet girl, that I wasn't like that, you know. So then he started doing things like, you know, pretend I'm the camera and look at me like, you know, you're an imbecile. And I tried to do that. And then I moved over to the other part of the room, and he said, lift your skirt up. And I looked at that and I went, okay, this is not good. And I walked over to him. He said, now come on over here and give me a little kiss. And I looked at him, and he'd taken out his whole situation, and I was staring, staring at it. And I said, you know what, Mr. Kap? I'll never get a job like this, you know. He said, well, you could have been a movie star. And I said to him, I never wanted to be a movie star. That was never what I wanted. And he said, well, you go back to your Jewish mother, and I've had all of them, so you'll never make it anywhere in this business. So finally, when that show came on, I made sure I got him, because I was on Laugh In. Cause that's how fast that happened. And I wrote him a note and I said, I thank you so much for not being on your show. And I was already somebody people knew. Right. Cause I was on the show. I got my comeuppance. But you know what? My mom was proud of me. I mean, because I stood up, by.
- [13:52]
Hoda Kotb
The way, that moment right there. Cause in that split second, you made a whole decision about your life.
- [13:58]
Goldie Hawn
I did.
- [13:59]
Hoda Kotb
Right then. It was like a five second decision. You were gonna decide what road you were going down.
- [14:03]
Goldie Hawn
Exactly.
- [14:04]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [14:04]
Goldie Hawn
I mean, it was really something.
- [14:06]
Hoda Kotb
And so many women chose the other. Because that was just as your mom knew it. Like it was second. That's what people did.
- [14:11]
Goldie Hawn
That's what people did. Exactly. She knew you would never know.
- [14:16]
Hoda Kotb
Did he ever. Did you ever actually see him after that?
- [14:20]
Goldie Hawn
No, but listen to this. So after that, it may have been, you know, timing is very hard to know. Let's call it six months later, I'm walking down 8th Avenue.
- [14:30]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, geez.
- [14:30]
Goldie Hawn
And this guy comes up to me and he stops me in the street, and he said, excuse me, I work on the Al Cap Show. He said, and you look just like a character that he created called Tenderleaf Erickson. I said, get away from me.
- [14:45]
Hoda Kotb
Get away from me.
- [14:45]
Goldie Hawn
You're a pimp. For him. I know who you are. You're a pimp.
- [14:50]
Hoda Kotb
And you heard the line already.
- [14:52]
Goldie Hawn
Exactly. This was months and months later.
- [14:55]
Hoda Kotb
That is. That's disgusting.
- [14:58]
Goldie Hawn
Exactly. So what do I do? I said, no, I'm not interested. I walked away. I said, if you've got a contract for me, I live right eight at 8th Avenue. Right. I was 19. And at that point I went and auditioned for a Copa to be a Copa girl. And he was there. He was there. And I walked over to him and I said, I'm going to tell every girl here who you are and why you're here. And I did. And he left.
- [15:24]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my gosh. To have that kind of will that you had during that period of time. You describe yourself two ways. You sound strong as an oxygen to be able to do that. And also riddled with anxiety and anxiousness. Both things can be true.
- [15:42]
Goldie Hawn
Both things can be true. That's such a good point. I am strong, you know. And listen, I was dropped off on 10th Avenue in a car, supposed to stay with somebody at 19, and they were out of town for the summer and I had no place to live. So you figured stuff out. I'm 10th Avenue with a little suitcase. And I was gonna dance at the World's Fair. So I went ahead to my dance teacher and the choreographer and I. He said, could I stay at your place for a few days till I look for a place to live and, you know, maybe a roommate? And he said, you know, absolutely. And the next thing I know, you know, I'm sleeping and there's a vibrator going up my leg. And I went, you know what? I don't think this is a good idea. I think I have to look for an apartment right now. And I did, you know, and that's.
- [16:29]
Hoda Kotb
But, you know, how did you not get hardened Exactly. By all of them and all of it?
- [16:35]
Goldie Hawn
Exactly.
- [16:36]
Hoda Kotb
I could see where you would be like, you know what? But you still can this spirit, right? Did you?
- [16:42]
Goldie Hawn
Well, my spirit was my life force, you know, that wasn't anything I was gonna give up. My happiness would be nothing that I would give up for no man, no thing, no nothing. And it was. If somebody stole that from me, they're out. Because that's a gift. And I tried to protect it. Have I been unhappy at times? Yes. And have I? Whatever. But I know I have the grit to get out of it. But truly, when I realized that I was no longer be a dancer, I wasn't going to go home and open a dancing school, get married, have children and be happy. That wasn't going to work. And when I was anxious and frightened and scared, I went to a doctor and I spent nine years with him. Why? Because I was learning about myself. I was learning about how to forgive. And I was learning, as I grew extremely successful, how to be able to manage other people's perception of me because they didn't know me. So when somebody says, I love you, you're great, that's wonderful, but they don't know me. And if people say, ew, you know, or you get bad reviews and they're also mean and terrible, you go, well, that was their perception, Right? You don't know me, but it's not the truth.
- [17:55]
Hoda Kotb
Wow. Wow. More ahead with Goldie Hawn. Stay with us.
- [18:10]
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- [19:37]
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- [20:42]
Hoda Kotb
I feel like you have maintained like I was thinking about you during the mental health issues when you were younger. People weren't so schooled on it, they didn't really know how to treat it or what did they tell you? Think something was wrong with you? Like when you said I feel anxious, this isn't right, something's not working for me. What did they tell you you should be doing then?
- [21:03]
Goldie Hawn
No one told me anything. Cause I didn't tell them.
- [21:05]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, you just couldn't.
- [21:07]
Goldie Hawn
In other words, it wasn't. And I couldn't explain it myself. It was confusing because I wasn't that person and for me all I could think of was how I could get out of it. For me it was solution oriented and I really wanted more education to try to find what is going on with me and, and I never quite learned why I put that together over time because anyone who's been depressed or has these things happening, sometimes it's out of nowhere.
- [21:37]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, you don't know.
- [21:38]
Goldie Hawn
And you know, the brain development is interesting. The fragility at 2019, 2021 is very fragile time. And so I succumbed to this part of my brain that was activated that I did not know how to handle. And this is one of the things we're gonna get to, which is, well, if I had that, then children have that, then people have that and we have to talk about it. Very important. We can't live in the dark and wonder what's going on with me. We have to know that people do experience this and it's really important to acknowledge it because only until you acknowledge it can you fix it.
- [22:17]
Hoda Kotb
That's beautiful. I keep thinking of this story and I don't know why. It's like popping up in my head. So I'm just going to tell it because I can't. You can't let it go. So I actually heard someone tell this story. They said back in the 30s there was a young girl who could not sit still. She was in class, and she was always moving around and kind of agitated. And the teacher's like, sit down, sit down, sit down. And finally the teacher said to the mother, you've got to take this kid to a shrink. This child is disruptive and can't focus. And not that it was back in the 30s when nobody knew. Yeah. So she took her child to. She said, we're going to have to kick her out of school. She's disrupting our class. They took her to a psychiatrist or psychologist. And the kid's in the room, and the doctor's talking to her, and the mother's there. And the doctor says to the mother, come outside for a second. I'm gonna talk to you. And he said, young lady, before I leave, I'm just gonna turn on some music. So he turns on some music, and he says to the mother, watch. And this kid got up and started spinning around the dance.
- [23:12]
Goldie Hawn
Oh, my God.
- [23:13]
Hoda Kotb
And he said, miss, your daughter's not sick. She's a dancer. And then he said, and this woman ended up being a choreographer for some of the top shows on Broadway. Her name's escaping me. That's what I was trying to think of it. But when you were talking about being a dancer, that's all I could think about. It was like you were born to dance.
- [23:36]
Goldie Hawn
Right.
- [23:36]
Hoda Kotb
That's how you came into the world.
- [23:38]
Goldie Hawn
It's true.
- [23:39]
Hoda Kotb
That was your happiest, and that's when you were free.
- [23:42]
Goldie Hawn
Exactly.
- [23:42]
Hoda Kotb
And then all these other things pile onto you, and they're trying to make you turn you into something, but you're your freest when you're doing the thing you love the most.
- [23:53]
Goldie Hawn
Oh, I know. I mean, I can't. Everything that I believe in, everything that I learned, all my work ethic, everything is wrapped up in my dance. But I have to tell you a story.
- [24:03]
Hoda Kotb
Tell me.
- [24:03]
Goldie Hawn
So I went in mindup class, and I was in Vancouver, which is where it started. I started it. I went to a classroom and I talked to the kids about mind up. And I talked to them about how they use it and all this stuff. Except there was one little boy there who was just moving around like he was hearing music. He wasn't paying attention. He was just jiving his body and whatever. And I said. I walked over to him and I said, you know what? I said, I bet you're a really good dancer. And he looked at me and his eyes lit up. I said, would you dance for us? Do you have any music here? And she turned on this Music. And he got up and he danced for everybody. And then we all started dancing. All the kids got up. And you know. You know how long this is took? This took five minutes. See, that's why in the classroom, we have to be free. You know, we have to be able to have joy for these children. They have to be able to recognize something in a child that says, you're not here right now. Okay, let's. Let's. Let's watch you dance. And I'll tell you, it was one of the most important things that reminded me of what the doctor said.
- [25:08]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [25:09]
Goldie Hawn
You know, I mean, it's just so important. And you're right. Dance was my teacher. And when I met George Slaughter from Laugh In, I remember when I met him. Cause I had an interview there. He said, and I just done this other show. I was out of my depression and all that stuff. And he said, well, what do you do? He said, what? I said, what are you? I said, I'm a dancer.
- [25:32]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [25:32]
Goldie Hawn
He said, no, I mean, what show just came from a show, right? I said, I. I know, but actually, I'm a dancer.
- [25:39]
Hoda Kotb
I'm a dancer. I'm a dancer. Oh, my God. Exactly.
- [25:42]
Goldie Hawn
Anyway, so I'm still dancing through life. I don't know.
- [25:44]
Hoda Kotb
By the way, it's like you found your true love. And I think so many people go through life putting a circle in a square or swimming upstream or trying to figure out, like, maybe if I work harder, this will feel easier. And they realize, like, then when you ride a wave, you're like, oh, no, no. This is what it's supposed to feel like. It's supposed to feel freeing. Let's talk about Mind up for a second.
- [26:05]
Goldie Hawn
Because.
- [26:05]
Hoda Kotb
Because in schools, kids are taught to learn, Sit in their desks, follow rules, you know, all the things. And look, truth be told, they have to know how to navigate life. When you get in life, there are rules. I have to come to work at this time. I can't do this. I want to be crazy. I can't. So there are some things that kids need to learn, but MindUp is a way to train a part of them that doesn't get any attention in schools. Will you explain what it is?
- [26:34]
Goldie Hawn
Well, you know, I can only know that my program, which I created and brought in neuroscientists and doctor. I mean, I did a whole thing, but I realized that our children weren't having fun. And at that time, I was doing a documentary on Joy. And that documentary was because I went to third world countries as a Big traveler. And I realized that Africa, India, all these places, people were experiencing joy. They were celebrating. There was ritual, there was all this. And then I'd go to the mall or I'd get in the car and I'm home and I walk somewhere and there was all gates are closed and things, right? You don't see kids running around. You don't see anything and have the looks on people's faces. I thought, wait a minute. We have to remember that we have this incredible innate ability to experience happiness, joy, moments of happiness and inner joy. I said, and it has to be cultivated. But I felt that our culture here in America was losing that. And it ended up being. I think we were underneath even England being the least happiest country in the world. And I'm going, okay, that's gonna stop. I'm create this documentary. I'm gonna travel the world, talk about joy. Talk about it.
- [27:43]
Hoda Kotb
What did it teach you that, doc? I wanna see it, by the way. But what did it teach you?
- [27:46]
Goldie Hawn
Yes, I have yet to make it. Okay, But I mean, I'll tell you what happened. 9, 11 happened. And that's when I looked at this and I went, well, I'm not gonna talk about joy now. You've got some serious problems coming up.
- [27:57]
Hoda Kotb
Did you travel, though? Did you get to see some of the places, how they dealt with Joy? Like how.
- [28:03]
Goldie Hawn
Oh, God, yes.
- [28:04]
Hoda Kotb
What did you notice? Just forget about the dog.
- [28:06]
Goldie Hawn
First of all, they're very family oriented. They're tribal, right. And like, I consider my family a tribe. Yeah, you know, we. They're tribal. That means they depend on each other. They're. They don't ask for a lot. They don't have a lot. I mean, boy, when I was in Africa and all of that, they were. I've never seen smiles like that in my life.
- [28:23]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, wow.
- [28:24]
Goldie Hawn
And they were so helpful. And they took things off their body and gave them to me and necklaces they made. And there was just generosity. There wasn't. There wasn't separation of anything, you know, except maybe I had crazy jeans on. And they looked at him and went, wow. I remember. Oh, God. One time at this time in Africa, we ended up flying privately all over, you know, a small plane, and we went to Turkana. So the Turkana region is where they found the earliest man. Okay. They found 3 million years. It was the highest density of crocodiles in the world. And it was escarpment and it was high desert and no animals. It was all people. So we were driving, you know, to look around all in this high desert. And it was in a jeep. And we looked further and I saw this amazing color. And it was orange red. And it just stood out like it was like a mirage, right? And we're driving. I said, can we drive toward that color? And with that color, more and more came into view that it was four, six Rendilli tribesmen.
- [29:36]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my God.
- [29:37]
Goldie Hawn
Young boys, probably around. They could have been six, five, very tall, dressed only in this wrap, which was beautiful orange, amazing color. And they were decked out in their jewelry, with all the jewelry they made. And they ended up giving me one of their necklaces. They wanted to ride in our jeep. They piled in, little heads dunked down because they were so tall. The minute we took off, they started to sing, Tears coming down my eyes going, it was so joyful. It was so beautiful. Their intonations were quite different than ours in our culture, but they were in harmony like I've never heard. And I started singing with him, and it was one of the great memories of my life. And then they were ready to get out. It was just a rock. It wasn't 7 11, I mean. And they just were so happy that they could do that.
- [30:42]
Hoda Kotb
That is so, like the simplest, most beautiful moment that you'll never forget. Think of all the people you've met, all the places you've been. I knew the moments. That one.
- [30:53]
Goldie Hawn
I know that one.
- [30:54]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [30:55]
Goldie Hawn
I know.
- [30:56]
Hoda Kotb
So joy in classrooms and joy among people. Because I think a lot of people think the usual, when I get X, I'll be happy, I'll be joyful. When my kid is here, when I get the thing, when I get the promotion, when I get the house, you know, all the things. And then they get there, and then they feel worse because they acquired what they had hoped for and yet it wasn't there. So they find that they're always missing it. So it's grownups and kids, but how do you teach?
- [31:25]
Goldie Hawn
They call that the hedonistic treadmill. And with that is you realize that things don't make you happy, no matter what you want. And the truth of the matter is that the reality and lasting things are precious experiences. And when you start looking beyond the it and the thing, then you start basically transforming into the moment. And that for me, is a lesson. Because we can ruminate on all the negative stuff. We can get new and get excited. Cause it smells so good, but eventually it doesn't smell that good. So these are the areas I think of misconception. And happiness and joy, I think are different because happiness are Moments of happiness, they come and they go, right? But there is this incredible part of your heart and soul that actually knows joy. It knows joy because we were laughing before we could talk. We were literally enjoying life. I have pictures of my grandson right now that will open your eyes to what true joy is. That's deep. That's what you feel when you're in church. It's when you feel. When you're singing. It's when you feel when you're in flow. And that belongs to you. And one of the things that I do talk to my parents and to people about. To other parents is that if you're feeling sad, make sure that you keep a picture of yourself when you were little and you were smiling and laughing because that's who you are, are. But we lose it. It gets. Basically, it's like an avalanche of life. And it can really put you in a place of sadness. But underneath that sadness is your joy. You were born with it.
- [33:08]
Hoda Kotb
How do you. When you have the days, like a lot of people listening, myself included, that are not great days, and you, how do you find it again? Like, what's your way in?
- [33:19]
Goldie Hawn
Well, first of all, you have to feel sad. Yeah, it's important. And it's important to feel the pain, and it's important to feel all those things. The problem with that, which is knowledge, okay, is that your brain gets connected and habituates that the brain is negative biased, so it responds very much to negative thought. That's why CNN does what it does. It's like what Fox does it, what it does. It's not just reporting, right? So everything is contagious. I mean, thought is contagious, attitudes are contagious, you name it. But we have to realize that when we're in this state of mind, you have every right to feel sad.
- [34:00]
Hoda Kotb
So you should feel that first.
- [34:02]
Goldie Hawn
What happens is that if you feel sad for periods of time and long periods of time, it turns into depression, knowing just that will actually be able to because of your higher self. We have metacognition, which means we can watch ourselves, right?
- [34:18]
Hoda Kotb
We can.
- [34:18]
Goldie Hawn
Can. And then you say, I don't want to be like this. I mean, when my mom died, I was sad for a year, but I pulled myself out of it for times to be the mother for my children. I wanted to be. But I would go upstairs and read my books, all kinds of books that would help me return into my more spiritual life. It's all I could do to find solace, but I could reach out, dig it out of me. So my kids actually could have a look. Happier Mother. So sadness is what we have. That and things that we can't control, we have to look at and say, I'm gonna feel bad about this. Listen, I do that every day. I look at the news and I cry. I let myself cry because it hurts. What we're hearing, what we're seeing, what we're feeling. The lack there of brotherhood, the sense of just Koyanisqatsi people dying in the wars, the anger that people have toward each other. I cry. But I refuse to let that ruin my day. I pull myself out of it and I get back in my body. Because you're no good for anybody when you do. We can't solve it. So the things that you know you can't solve that are. Then we just ride over it in your mind.
- [35:44]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.
- [35:46]
Goldie Hawn
You know, we're strong and we make an intention to do it. Then we'll do it.
- [35:53]
Hoda Kotb
I like that. I had Young Pueblo on, who's written a couple of these books. He said, he goes, whenever I feel something, I sit on the edge of my bed and I wait for it. And I let it seep right into me. And I know for a fact that it's gonna go into me and through me. And I wait. He goes, and I'll sit there until it goes all the way through.
- [36:15]
Goldie Hawn
I love that.
- [36:16]
Hoda Kotb
He says, here it comes. This is it. Here's that thing. There it is. Now it's in my throat. I feel it now. It's going through me.
- [36:22]
Goldie Hawn
It's beautiful.
- [36:23]
Hoda Kotb
And the other person, I'm just thinking about her, too. Martha Beck. I don't know if you do. You know Martha Beck, she's written books that you would love. Maria Shriver told me when she gets in a funk, the one person she calls is Martha. And I call Maria. So I was. So I wondered who her person. And Martha was saying that in the morning, she talks to herself. She was like, I'm my best friend. Hey, girl. She goes, you know what you could use this morning, sweetie? And then she goes, you know what you could use? You could use a real hot cup of tea when we wake up. So I'm gonna do that for you. Okay, I got you. And then as you're drinking the tea, sweetie, you know what else you need today? Cause I know that you've been feeling that ache in your back. You were talking about it. You know, I'm gonna do. I'm calling that guy who does 10 minutes for $10 on the corner I know you think it's a pain, but it's worth it. So I'm gonna set it up. You just show up and she goes through this dialogue and realizes that she can kind of boost herself out. Cause you gotta find your method, your way.
- [37:24]
Goldie Hawn
Absolutely.
- [37:24]
Hoda Kotb
When you think about kids and all of us, do you have. Are you in a hopeful place right now? Do you feel hopeful for all of us?
- [37:35]
Goldie Hawn
You know, here's what it is. If I wish if I could change the world, I would. I can't. Okay? But what I'm doing that makes me feel hopeful is that I've seen children change from mind up. I have seen them shift a way that they have more agency over themselves and over their sadness, over their anxiety, over their uncertainty. Okay. This is what we're doing. So when you have anything that you've made happen, okay, There is joy in that. Is it hard work? Yes. Is it difficult running an organization? Yes. It's no different than a business. Okay. So foundations are no different. The truth is there's a lot of work to be done, but there's also this intention. I remember when I created this, I said, if it helps 10 children, I'm doing this for a reason.
- [38:23]
Hoda Kotb
How do you know it works?
- [38:24]
Goldie Hawn
We had research. I wouldn't go out until it was researched. That's the other thing, is that at that time, you know, it was Goldie Hawn. What does she know about education? What does she know about this stuff? And of course, people are always ready to criticize. So I didn't want that. You know, I wanted Mind up to be the star. So that was research. Early, early days. And it was researched. And what came out was so positive that the researcher said, I have been researching these kind of programs for 20 years. Now it's 40. She said, I've never seen results like this in 12 to 15 weeks. Never. Our children. The research was extraordinary. So she decided, let's do a bigger. So we did, you know, with a control group, and we did this with a control group. Well, our mind up children came back much more resilient, much happier, much. You name it worked better in the classroom. Together, they all said they would make. They could make themselves happier now. And, you know, math scores went up. I mean, it was crazy. But the control group, which was much more interesting, got nothing. They got no intervention. They didn't get any. Anything went below baseline. They got worse.
- [39:32]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, wow.
- [39:33]
Goldie Hawn
It was. That is the most interesting part.
- [39:35]
Hoda Kotb
That's telling.
- [39:36]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah, it's very telling.
- [39:37]
Hoda Kotb
So what do. In a nutshell, what do the kids get like, what are you doing for a third grader or a sixth grader? What do they do when they're in the program?
- [39:46]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah, that's a good question. What they do is basically they're not dissimilar things. You change the verbiage, you change some of the exercises. You change that for the 8 age group. I'll give you an example. Well, first of all, let me just go through it. The first thing we learn is about our brain, and it's the first thing we teach them and our educators, which, by the way, are benefiting greatly from this program. We have 143 schools here, just in New York City alone.
- [40:11]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [40:12]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah. And we've got the UFT and the doe. It's been amazing. So forgetting all that and knowing that. So they get first brain brain lessons. They have to know the amygdala, prefrontal cortex, hippocampus. They have to know exactly what's reacting when we feel a certain way and really turn that into an experience. Right. Then we teach them a brain break. A brain break is breathing, focusing. There's one bell. The reason we have a bell, a chime, something that lasts a long time because they listen to the sound as long as they can. And that connects the brain to focused attention. Attention. So it starts the brain listening and listening and listening and listening and listening and listening. And then they turn their little hands over, whether they're sitting in a circle or at their desk. And that means now we start our breathing. And the breath goes in very slowly through the nose and very slowly out the nose. And the idea is that, remember, the brain thinks, it does that all the time. You will have thoughts that'll come into your head, which is fine, but just let them go like clouds. Don't get. Don't attach them and come back to your breath. So learn how to focus on your breath and not on the things that are actually taking away.
- [41:26]
Hoda Kotb
Got it?
- [41:26]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah, that's it. So we explained to them that it's a muscle. And we're building our muscle just like we build our bicep and things like that. And the languaging gets more adult as time goes on. But as an example we created, it's on our website, mindup.org if you go on it, you'll see see a film that Tiffany Schlane did. She's quite brilliant. And it is all about the adolescent brain. So when they're anywhere from 11, 12, 13, 14, and on up, they now see what's happening to their brain. When they become this age. They start learning more about. Well, that's why I do that. Now I see why I'm feeling that. I know I'm over emotional. I know that's where I am right. Right now. And I'm not thinking very well because my prefrontal cortex is a little bit offline. I'm not knowing how to basically do a lot of things, like think, remember things, because it's emotion. And the emotion hijacks everything that goes on in the executive function, decision making. It's why we always afraid, because our decision making is often off. You know, you don't want to get in a car with a person who's been drinking.
- [42:37]
Hoda Kotb
Right.
- [42:38]
Goldie Hawn
You know, these kind of things, right? You want to be, you know, cognizant. But it gives them an understanding, and the parents and the teachers, what's going on. And it's fabulous, right?
- [42:49]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [42:49]
Goldie Hawn
The other thing I created was a cartoon, a digital cartoon for the younger children so they will be able to understand what their Brain Buddies, it's called. And the Brain Buddies are all the characters of the brain. And now Millie, who's the lead character, can't remember because she's so upset, cannot remember what she learned last night from her. Her test. So the Brain Buddies come in, they go into her brain, and they go, I'm the amygdala. I'm the thing, whatever. And I know I'm getting upset, and I'm feeling her emotions. I know whatever. And it said, and that's the amygdala, who's a barking dog. And then we have the wise owl who's the, you know, the. The prefrontal cortex. And then we have the hippocampus, who's the memory. And he remembers everything. So we teach them through the cartoon.
- [43:34]
Hoda Kotb
That's really more with Goldie Hawn when we come back. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here, if you haven't heard. I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:25]
Dr. Sarah Rahal
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- [45:25]
Hoda Kotb
Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving. Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teenage. Sign up for Greenlight infinity@Greenlight.com podcast. You have so many great joys in your life. Your children, obviously, who are lovely, your grand. I mean, how have you changed since a grandchild popped into your life?
- [46:11]
Goldie Hawn
Oh, I don't think I've changed at all.
- [46:14]
Hoda Kotb
That's cool. Yeah.
- [46:15]
Goldie Hawn
I will say that when Ryder was born, Kate's first, I still had a kid at home because she gave me her. I love her for that. And my kids range from 20 to seven months.
- [46:29]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [46:30]
Goldie Hawn
So I have a big, wide range of that. I will say this being a go go grandmother, I love it. It's an unbelievable weave that starts to happen when your children start to have children, but they're the parents. And what one has to be careful is that, that we don't want to be a horn. That's always saying, why'd you do that? They should do this? And whatever. So Kurt and I are, we give them full autonomy.
- [46:59]
Hoda Kotb
Okay.
- [47:00]
Goldie Hawn
And with that, I will say, I miss being a mother.
- [47:04]
Hoda Kotb
Really?
- [47:04]
Goldie Hawn
Of, of children. Yeah. I loved being a mother. I, I, I loved it. It's the greatest one when a child looks up to you and say, my wife used to say, mother, may I Kiss your royal ring, you know. Cause I always like these big rings. I mean, they love you so much. And that's the one thing we talk about, parenting. Remember that no one will love you like your children do. And that's the most important part of your life. And remember that because one day they won't be sitting in your lap. One day they'll be living their life. One day you're going to wonder why they didn't call you. But at one point in time you were the queen, you were the it girl. And that really is important to cherish, right? It's really important to cherish. So I love being a mother and I do love being a grandmother. But I'm not the boss. I'm just the one that can deliver happiness to them. And also an ear if they need it.
- [48:11]
Hoda Kotb
I think you should do that Joy documentary now.
- [48:13]
Goldie Hawn
I do.
- [48:14]
Hoda Kotb
I think it's time. Yeah, I think it's time for it. I think it's the perfect time for it. I think it's time for it. I think it's the perfect time for it.
- [48:20]
Goldie Hawn
Oh, I know.
- [48:21]
Hoda Kotb
Perfect time. If you had a day that was all for you, which means you could wake up when you wanted, you have not one obligation or anything, and you could fill it with anything that you wanted for a day that feels to you like a day that you made space for yourself, how would you space spend that day? Who would be in it? Would there be anyone in it?
- [48:48]
Goldie Hawn
Probably not be anyone in it. I think quieting yourself down, doing the things you want to do, I've been there. I know what that feels like. And there's never a day that goes by that I don't have something to do. I mean, I'm not looking to retire at all because I've got too many ideas and too much life in me. But on the other side of it, when I realize that I don't have anything to with do do, I will then go see the kids in the morning and then I would go to get a facial and I would read and I would do whatever I want to do. I'd clean out my closet. I mean throw out stuff and give it to people that need it. I mean I would go for a hike and I would call a friend and say, let's have lunch. You mean I actually have a free lunch to be with somebody? No, I mean, I know it's crazy, you know, but it's important. Yeah, but it's important, you know, that you do that. I'd call my hundred year old aunt And I would talk to her because I don't have anything that's stopping a longer phone call. Do you know what I mean? Because now we can't. Those long phone calls that you have, I mean, you have to manage them. I mean, there are friends we have, right? And we don't have to call them because we see them. But then there are other friends that haven't been in your life for a while that really want to know what's going on. And you know that you don't have an hour. You don't have a half an hour. Right.
- [50:13]
Hoda Kotb
But this would be that day.
- [50:14]
Goldie Hawn
It's so amazing. So that's what I do. Oh, gosh, there's so many things I would do. I mean, there's so many books to read. And do you have, like, a little.
- [50:26]
Hoda Kotb
Morning routine or an evening routine that you do habitually? Is there something that. Is there a way you start your day or frame it or end it?
- [50:35]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah. I mean, first of all, I wake up. Thank God, the day's looking great right now. And then I stretch in my bed and I breathe. And the reason why I breathe is because when we're sleeping, we breathe very shallow. And you're not opening up your lungs. You're not opening up your oxygen intake. So I breathe through my nose probably 10 times. I hold it. So when I breathe, you breathe, say, just take, you know, breathe up to 10 or whatever for however long you can fill your lung. And then. And hold it for 5 seconds, 6 seconds, and then exhale and I do it again. Within three of those deep, slow breaths, my eyes pop open. So that's one thing, right? Then I drink lemon water, which, when Kurt's home, he always brings me my lemon water.
- [51:29]
Hoda Kotb
How sweet is he, by the way?
- [51:31]
Goldie Hawn
He still breaches a lemon water. He's a deer. I mean, really. And, you know, he's amazing. And so he brings lemon water. He said, do you want your lemon water before your coffee? And I said, yes. But when he's gone, right? Because he went off to a movie in Australia, and I went, what am I going to do? I give that to myself. I go up and I get up and I tell the dogs, you're not eating yet. Because I'm having my lemon water and my coffee. Yes. And I'm having happy. I like my alone time, and I guess I like my time with myself. And the dogs are there, and I do that. And then around 7:30, I feed the dogs. And then I get ready for a zoom. I get ready for whatever the Day's got for you. It starts early. And I try not to look too much at my phone because that's when already the simmer starts.
- [52:29]
Hoda Kotb
Right?
- [52:29]
Goldie Hawn
You look at 8 o', clock, you're going, well, what was that about? And again, next thing you know, you're in the abyss of your work.
- [52:35]
Hoda Kotb
One thing. Cause your son went to the same place that I went to. This institute has a little morning drill they ask you to do. They say in the beginning you should write down these things. They say you should check in body, intellect, emotional self and spirit. So you write down. So I'll describe how my spirit feels that morning. It feels eternal and present. It feels loving, or it feels distant, or it feels, you know, however you're identifying, where is that part of you? It's like, what is. Then what does my body need today? And I was like, you know, my body needs, like a long walk and I want a long shower, so I'll write it. What does my intellect need? I've been listening to this Martha Beck podcast, so I'm like, my brain needs that. So I would write it down. And what does my emotional self need? Like, what does that part of me need? Okay, I need a long. Maybe a phone call with my mom, or maybe I need to make sure I tuck my kids in tonight. Even though. And then it's like a mini. Almost like a mini roadmap, but it's reminding me of those parts and what's missing.
- [53:33]
Goldie Hawn
Exactly. Yeah.
- [53:35]
Hoda Kotb
And it's like, they call it like a quad check. It's like you check in with all four parts. Cause that makes you who you are.
- [53:41]
Goldie Hawn
I love it.
- [53:42]
Hoda Kotb
And then once you venture out, you go, okay, now I got my day. And then you get your wall, because you've written it. You almost get it in. I'm like, ah, that podcast. I'm gonna listen to it on the ride home today. Instead of how, you know, you could death scroll or do whatever and think you're reading something and then you're down some crazy, crazy rabbit hole.
- [53:59]
Goldie Hawn
Yeah.
- [54:00]
Hoda Kotb
First of all, I just wanna say I love you and I wanna say thank you. You are a remarkable human being, Joy. And please, when you do the documentary, come back and talk about it. Because when you said it, I was like, I. All I want to do is see it. So now all you have to do is make it.
- [54:16]
Goldie Hawn
Well, spring the kids and you can come along.
- [54:18]
Hoda Kotb
Okay. We'll come for the ride. Thank you, Goldie.
- [54:21]
Goldie Hawn
Thank you.
- [54:25]
Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Casavecchia along with Kate Saunders, our associate. Our audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle.
- [54:56]
Ted Danson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Where Everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.