Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt on Parenting with Purpose and Finding Calm in Chaos

Summary

Podcast Summary: Making Space with Hoda Kotb

Episode: Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt on Parenting with Purpose and Finding Calm in Chaos
Host: Hoda Kotb
Guest: Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt
Date: December 31, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode explores the power of purposeful parenting, finding peace amidst chaos, and the importance of resilience and compassion. Hoda Kotb and Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt discuss family dynamics, lessons from Katherine’s upbringing, her relationship with animals (especially horses), how motherhood has shifted her perspective, and the ways both challenge and calm are present in daily life. The conversation moves fluidly from practical parenting techniques to deeper reflections on loss, faith, and self-care.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Motherhood, Travel, and Letting Go

[02:27–04:02]

• Katherine shares her first trip away from her daughters (with her infant son Ford) and the detailed preparations she made for their care, stressing the importance of planning and honesty with children.
• Quote:

  “I left Chris with like a manual.” – Katherine [03:39]
  “Every single day is planned out. I have little pieces of mail that arrive every single day. I mean, I went full on preparation.” – Katherine [03:51]

2. The Role of Being the Oldest Child

[04:02–07:14]

• Katherine embraces her oldest sibling status, enjoying responsibility and control rather than finding it burdensome.
• She discusses strict family expectations: chores, responsibility for belongings, and her father's unique discipline methods — “our belongings went into the fire” if left out [06:43].
• She notes she never rebelled in the classic sense but channeled any need for independence into activities like spending time at the barn.

3. The Calming Presence of Animals and the Barn

[07:59–13:47]

• Katherine reveals that animals, especially horses, have always been a source of calm and peace for her, shaping her resilience and capacity to self-soothe.
• Discusses being teased for being a “horse girl” and how the barn was her sanctuary from high school drama and family upheavals.
• Quote:

  “Being in their presence gives you this calm and peace that most of us can’t find anywhere else.” – Katherine [08:15]

4. Parenting through Fear and Encouraging Bravery

[10:30–15:51]

• Katherine’s new book “Cat and Brandy” is rooted in her real-life experience of falling off a horse and how her mother balanced encouraging courage and empathizing with fear.
• The interview delves into how she approaches her daughters’ setbacks, allowing room for emotions yet gently encouraging them to face fears.
• Quote:

  “We together had this ability to work through our fears alongside one another and overcome them. And that’s really why I wrote the book.” – Katherine [12:42]

5. Grief and Loss

[13:47–14:55]

• Losing her horse Brandy was one of Katherine's most profound losses, which she describes as a “traumatizing experience.” She reflects on the unique support and understanding from her mother during that grief.
• Quote:

  “When she passed away … I still look back. I’m 35 about to be 36. And it was definitely the most traumatizing experience of my life.” – Katherine [13:50]

6. Parenting Philosophy: Inheriting and Updating Traditions

[16:07–21:26]

• Katherine discusses nighttime worries, often centered on whether she handled parenting moments well.
• She values the magical environment her parents created. She aims to emulate openness about emotions, acknowledging that her parents’ generation lacked some of today’s emotional vocabulary.
• She and her husband, Chris Pratt, navigate blending their backgrounds through ongoing couples therapy and premarital counseling, focusing on communication and unified parenting philosophies.
• Quote:

  “My mom was ahead of the game with how she talked very openly with us kids about our feelings and also really talked openly with us about repair.” – Katherine [18:05]

7. Instilling Grit, Chores, and Consequences

[19:12–20:54]

• Katherine details age-appropriate chores for her daughters and the importance of linking actions with consequences to foster grit.

8. Relationship, Faith, and Connection

[21:26–28:56]

• Katherine and Chris’s shared faith grounds their marriage and daily life; they pray together at meals and maintain spiritual rituals inherited from childhood.
• Describes the lively, eclectic, and emotion-filled Sunday dinners at her mother Maria Shriver’s home, where world leaders, neighbors, and friends all gather.
• Quotes:

  “Every morning I wake up and I pray right away. Like I thank God for allowing me to wake up.” – Katherine [25:38]
  “It could be a world leader … it could be our neighbor… you never know.” – Katherine [27:13]

9. Family History, Rawness, and Healing

[29:02–31:52]

• The publication of Maria Shriver’s poetry was a transformative and emotional experience for Katherine, shining a light on the depth of her mother’s private struggles and healing process.
• Quote:

  “It was, you know, as her daughter, very eye opening, admirable, heartbreaking, of course, at times, and very raw.” – Katherine [30:38]

10. Difficult Conversations with Children

[31:52–37:12]

• Hoda and Katherine share their approaches to explaining challenging topics—adoption, loss of pets, death—to their young children.
• Katherine takes cues from her children’s questions and uses imagination to help them process concepts like death.
• Quote:

  “It led to this cool, long, really interesting conversation about what they thought he was doing … they used their imagination to really create a world where Cinco passing away was like this beautiful, amazing and exciting world.” – Katherine [36:04]

11. Mental Health, Self-Care, and Making Space

[39:08–41:47]

• Katherine shares her daily mental health routines:
  • Transcendental Meditation (TM)
  • Weekly therapy sessions
  • Prioritizing time for herself and with her husband
  • Mindful movement—walks in nature, horseback riding
  • Self-compassion: “Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself grace. You’re doing great.” – Repeating her mother’s advice [41:09]
• Quote:

  “That practice [TM] for me … has changed me in so many different ways that I would say to anybody who's questioning it, it's an amazing thing to have in your life.” – Katherine [39:23]

12. Katherine’s Ideal Day

[41:48–43:20]

• An ideal day would begin early, spent outdoors at the barn, surrounded by family, friends, and animals.
• The barn is a sacred place, central to Katherine’s sense of peace and grounding throughout her life milestones.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Every single day is planned out. I have little pieces of mail that arrive every single day. I mean, I went full on preparation.” – Katherine [03:51]
• “Being in their presence gives you this calm and peace that most of us can’t find anywhere else.” – Katherine [08:15]
• “We together had this ability to work through our fears alongside one another and overcome them. And that’s really why I wrote the book.” – Katherine [12:42]
• “When she passed away … I still look back. I’m 35 about to be 36. And it was definitely the most traumatizing experience of my life.” – Katherine [13:50]
• “My mom was ahead of the game with how she talked very openly with us kids about our feelings and also really talked openly with us about repair.” – Katherine [18:05]
• “Every morning I wake up and I pray right away. Like I thank God for allowing me to wake up.” – Katherine [25:38]
• “It was, you know, as her daughter, very eye opening, admirable, heartbreaking, of course, at times, and very raw.” – Katherine [30:38]
• “Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself grace. You’re doing great.” – Katherine [41:09]

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Section Timestamps

• Introduction & Theme Setting: [01:08–02:27]
• Leaving Kids & Family Roles: [02:27–04:02]
• Oldest Child Dynamics: [04:02–07:14]
• Animals & Calm: [07:59–13:47]
• Book: Cat and Brandy & Parenting Fear: [10:30–15:51]
• Loss & Grief: [13:47–14:55]
• Parenting Reflections & Traditions: [16:07–21:26]
• Faith, Family Meals, Connection: [25:24–28:56]
• Mother’s Poetry & Family History: [29:02–31:52]
• Difficult Conversations with Kids: [31:52–37:12]
• Mental Health & Self-Care: [39:08–41:47]
• Ideal Day & Closing: [41:48–43:20]

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Memorable Moments

• Katherine’s deep preparation for her first trip away without her daughters, creating daily surprises and leaving a “manual” for their care.
• Honest conversation about strict childhood chores and the impact of parental discipline.
• The healing, grounding impact of time with animals and at the barn—threaded throughout her life, writing, and now her parenting.
• The grief of losing beloved animals, and how she navigates explaining grief and death to her children.
• Navigating different backgrounds in marriage and parenting styles through therapy and open conversation.

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Takeaways

Listeners will come away with:

• Practical and heartfelt strategies for intentional, present parenting.
• Insights on balancing encouraging grit with compassion.
• Tools for addressing loss and big feelings with children.
• The reassurance that even those who appear composed and successful wrestle with doubt and grief.
• Inspiration to create their own “space” for calm, connection, and self-compassion in daily life.

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Recommended: Katherine’s new children’s book, Cat and Brandy.

Overall Tone: Warm, honest, gently humorous, and deeply compassionate—reflecting both Hoda and Katherine’s approachable and thoughtful styles.

Transcript

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

There are people who move through life with quiet strength, who lead with grace, with purpose, and with love. Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt is one of those people. She's a daughter, a wife, a mother of three, a New York Times bestselling author, an animal advocate, and the host of the BDA Baby Podcast. Everything she does encourages others at any age to look in and live with compassion. Catherine's heart for service for animals and for family is something she learned from her mom, my dear friend Maria Shriver. And it shines through in every part of her life, especially in her writing. From Rock what yout've Got to the Gift of Forgiveness and now Cat and Brandy. Her words remind us that courage isn't in the absence of fear, but rather the decision to try again. Catherine and I sit down to reflect on the lessons from her mother that shaped who she is today and how she's found bravery and courage through every season of life and the ways motherhood has changed her perspective on the world. I'm Hoda Kotb, and this is my podcast, Making Space.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Hi.

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Advertiser]

Hi.

[Hoda Kotb]

Should we start with the usual? My favorite question to begin with is, how are you today in this moment as we sit across from one another?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, I'm so excited to be here with you. Always excited to be with you. I'm also like, I just Landed from la. This is my first trip with my son Ford, just the two of us. My first time leaving my daughters. And I'm also here with my mom. So it's a party.

[Hoda Kotb]

What is it like leaving your daughters for the first time like this. What does it feel like?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, it's something that I feel like I've been thinking about for so long, like when that's gonna happen. And because I had both of my girls during COVID I just never have left them. So I feel like it's a good time. It's a good reason to. Obviously I had to bring the baby, but I mean, it's fun. Cause I can travel with my mom and she distracts me. And my sister's home with them, as is my husband. So they're fine, Everybody's good, They're okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

What did you tell them about where mommy's at?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I was very honest with them and I told them ahead of time. I did all the research on what's the correct way to do that. What's the best way to leave them feeling secure and also prepared with a plan. Because I'm very into having a plan ahead of time.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Shocking. I'm the oldest, so I talked to them about it. Like, I just told them everything. I left Chris with like a manual.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, yeah. What they're wearing.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

You have them? Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

This is how we do it.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Exactly. Like every single day is planned out. I have little pieces of mail that arrive every single day. I mean, I went full on preparation.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wait, let's talk. Okay. Oldest child. You're the oldest of four.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So how would your siblings describe your role in the family?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Probably, I would say in charge and in control of everyone and everything. And also probably like a mom's helper for everything. Yeah. Mostly also with Christopher, because Christopher is eight years younger than me. And I did. I'd like everything with my mom with him.

[Hoda Kotb]

How did you like that role being the oldest? You did.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Oh, my gosh. And I love. Thank you for asking me about this, first of all, because I am one of those people that has loved my role as the oldest. And everyone in the past couple years has been sending me these articles and this research about, you know, the plight of the oldest child and how terrible it is to be the oldest daughter and all the burdens and responsibilities. And I read all of them and I was like, thank you so much for sending them to me. And also I am aware of all these responsibilities and these roles, and I love them. Like, I just. It's so My personality, like, I do. It fits me so perfectly.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I love the responsibility. I love the role. I love being in charge. I love making sure my siblings are exactly where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. Like, it's just. I have. I don't look at it as a burden at all.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. How does your mom like all of the order and having things with my.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Children do you mean? Well, for example, I was a few minutes late to this interview because she decided to go get a bunch of croissants for Ford, who is not yet one, and come in while I was trying to feed him and put him down so I could come to this interview. And she came in and started, my boyfriend. Look at my little boyfriend. And she, like, they fully flirt with each other, and then he gets distracted, and I'm like, I'm done. I have to leave now.

[Hoda Kotb]

So, you know, sometimes the eldest. And I'm just thinking about my family. In our family, the eldest was like, the one who you. They tried everything out on. Like, they were harder on the oldest, for sure. As it went down the line, it was like nobody cared at the end, none. So you were kind of in that place where you got most of that.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

100% and you were fine. And Christopher, 00, he could do whatever. Christopher were very. I mean, very lenient with. The two of them. Still had rules and chores and things like that. My dad was really big on chores.

[Hoda Kotb]

What were yours? What did you have to do?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, very strict on them. We had to make our bed every morning, do our laundry, open our curtains, turn off our lights, clean our bedrooms, clean our bathroom, fold our clothes properly, clean up after ourselves. If we didn't clean up after ourselves, our belongings went into the fire. Wait, what? My dad was very serious.

[Hoda Kotb]

What do you mean, into the fire?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

No, like, if they were just laying around, they were disposed of because he said, obviously, you don't care about them and you need to have responsibility with your belongings. Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So that would be the last time I was.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

And I was like, I cannot believe that you're doing this, and this is just terrible. And I remember I had. I was picked up and brought home from a semi formal because I didn't take my clothes out of the dryer and fold them. And I was like, this is terrible. Like, who does this? And I'm like, I'm gonna do this exact same thing with my children now. So, you know, it all comes full.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did you rebel like most kids?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

No, I'm the oldest child. We don't rebel. We don't do that.

[Hoda Kotb]

You get in line.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I feel like I rebelled in different ways. You know, like, when you're growing up, especially in adolescence, you find different ways to have your version of rebellion. And mine was with who I would date when I was in high school. And. But I felt. I feel like I had a lot of calm in my life and an outlet, really, at the barn, which is why I wanted to write the book, because I feel like it was for me, anytime I had a sense of wanting to rebel or, you know, which is normal for teenagers and when you're growing up. And for me, I. And I would go to the barn and, like, ride my horse and get my.

[Hoda Kotb]

Let's talk about you and animals, because I think that's. First of all, it's been a passion of yours since you were little, forever. What was the initial draw? Like, what feeling did you get from being around animals that maybe you didn't even get among your friends?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Definitely just instant calm and peace.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I think from a very early age, my mom will always talk about that. I just loved being in the presence of animals from the moment I was born. And I. As I got older, I found that in the presence of dogs, in the presence of rabbits, and, you know, any sort of nature, and definitely in the presence of horses. And I always say to people, you don't have to be in the presence of a horse to have the benefits of feeling calm and peace. It's really any animal. And people who, you know, have that love with animals or have had that experience with animals know exactly what I'm talking about when I say being in their presence gives you this common peace that most of us can't find anywhere else. And for me, I think that was definitely what I had with Brandy and what I had at the barn. And just being in the presence of these amazing animals, that just gave me the ability to take a deep breath and just be.

[Hoda Kotb]

Brandy, your horse, was the feeling of calm you talked about. Like, you would sit there and you would get. I think you described yourself not like an outcast at school, but somehow you felt more comfortable with the horse than with friends. Totally. What were you like in school, and why was he so important in your life?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, I think my mom really allowed that to be a nurtured relationship because she felt that with her horse growing up. And I know she's talked to you about that a lot, but I think she understood that the barn was a safe place for me and also a Place where I could just be myself. And when I was growing up, being a horse girl was not in fashion like it is now. It was something that people made fun of me for. They're like, oh, you and your horses. You know, you like being around animals. You're, you know, you're lame or you're not, you know, like, interested in going out and partying like we all are. So I, you know, I was with her every single day after school. I went to the barn. I did my homework in the barn. I just felt like it was a place that was removed from the high school drama and chaos and also everything else that was going on around me. You know, there were a lot of things going on around me. Like my dad was running for governor. I had, you know, my siblings. There's high school drama. There's changes at, you know, in home dynamics and everything. So I felt like the barn was just a place I could step out of all of that and just be myself.

[Hoda Kotb]

When I was reading this book, first of all, there are so many beautiful things in the book. The illustrations, everything. It's called Cat and Brandy. And a couple of things struck me. I mean, one was, first of all, that this came from a true place in your life. You'd fallen off a horse. And that happened. And I. What I love about this. One of the things I loved about this book is when the child.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

You.

[Hoda Kotb]

Falls off the horse and your mom doesn't sort of say, well, let's get back on. Like, I think my inclination would have been like, okay, you can do it.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Get back on.

[Hoda Kotb]

It sounded like, at least according to the book, that she was like, well, when you're ready, you do. You. You can sit on the side. You don't have to rush into it. I kind of like that feeling. Cause I think so many parents are shoving their kids back in when they're not ready.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

It's like a happy medium.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

So, like, when I would fall off when I was younger, my mom put me right back. Just right back on because. And, you know, really with my own experience and in this book, it was really when the moment happened of falling off. The importance of getting right back on after, you know, of course, you're checked to make sure you're surviving. But getting right back on really doesn't allow you to develop a fear with a horse and allows there to be potential moving forward to overcome that fear. Once that was established, you know, and I would get back on the horse, I then went from, okay, I'm fine being back on the horse. And I had such a love and desire to just take care of the horses. I just loved going there and brushing them and taking care of them. And I see that with my daughters now, too. It's like, this really therapeutic experience for them to caretake for the horses and also just animals in general. Like, we have chickens, and I watched them caretake for the chickens. And, you know, when I was little. We do have chickens now, Hoda. It's a whole thing. I know, but, like, even when I look back at pictures, I mean, my mom has so many pictures of my sister and I brushing our dogs when we were younger, and I think that that's very therapeutic for children. So I definitely grew up having this experience of falling off. My mom had me get back on, and I was very timid to start riding again, like, after that, moving forward. And I just felt comfortable going to the barn with my mom, watching her ride and marvel at her ability to do it, and also taking my time to get comfortable around the horses. And I think that that's what she did really well. She was. You know, she wasn't like, you have to compete. You have to do this, you know? And she asked me all the time, every single time we went to the barn, are you sure you don't want to compete? Are you sure you don't want to go do that? And I, you know, just took my time getting comfortable around the horses. And that's really what I did with Brandy, is I took a lot of time. She was very, you know, not trusting of humans, and I wasn't very trusting of horses. And we together had this ability to work through our fears alongside one another and overcome them. And that's really why I wrote the book, was to show that you can be afraid of something. You can work through those fears and be brave and overcome them. And also, the healing power of animals is such a profound one that I have been able to experience in so many different ways and that other people have as well. And the benefits for having that around children are just incredible. Incredible.

[Hoda Kotb]

What did you lose the day Brandy passed away?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Oh, my God, so much. I think, you know, for me, Brandy was, like, my best friend, and she was. When I was growing up, and I actually heard my mom talk about this when she was talking about her horse. That was similar to what Brandi was for me, and it's like, the first love of your life. So for me, I think Brandy was definitely that for me. And when she passed away, I was like, I still look back. I'm 35 about to be 36. And it was definitely the most traumatizing experience of my life. So it was a huge loss, you know. And how old were you? I think I was 17 or 18. I was a senior in high school. Yeah. And it was also an interesting experience because it felt that nobody around me understood that except for my mom. Like, my mom was like, I get this for sure. Like, I've been there. I get it. Cause, you know, people lose their dogs and their. Their home pets a little bit later. And so I think that no one around me had really experienced that, understood it.

[Hoda Kotb]

When your daughter fell off the horse, were you, first of all, as a parent who likes control, you must have lost it. What did you do?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

You know, it was interesting because I had always thought of when that would happen. And I. You know, I was riding with both of my daughters, and she fell off a horse for the first time. And so I, of course, leapt off of my horse and ran to her, and I sat with her and let her cry about it and be upset about it and, of course, made sure she was okay. And then I took her back over there, and she's like, I don't want to get on. I don't want to get on. And I'm sure every parenting expert is going to tell me this is not a good thing to do. But I sat with her and we took our time. And I wanted her to get back on because I didn't want her to at five.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Be afraid. She was four and a half at the time. I didn't want her to have that fear that just lasted with her forever. So we took our time and sat with the pony. We sat on the ground with the pony, and we slowly worked her way back up on the horse again.

[Hoda Kotb]

She got back on.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

She was thrilled to call my mother right after and tell her the entire story of how she fell off. The whole thing. I got back on. Yeah. It was like a proud moment for her.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's funny because this book does talk about fear, like all kids have, and grownups. What keeps you up at night these days?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, my children. Yeah. Anyone who has a baby right now knows exactly what I'm talking about. I'm up several times at with one of my kids. I feel like lately they are at a phase where they definitely want to be around me and my husband and at all hours of the night. So they like to come in.

[Hoda Kotb]

But really, what keeps you up at night? Like, what kind of fears keep you up at night?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, I think probably just things like, did I handle this properly today with my kids? It's always around my kids.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, same.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I think it's always like, you know, when I made my daughter sit at the dinner table, did I handle that properly? Did I handle that communication properly? I think, you know, social media has so many amazing blessings and also challenges that come with being fed parenting videos all the time about what you're doing that is going to damage your child forever. Or, you know, that if you do this, it's going to end up in this negative form of attachment, like, all of these things. And so I feel like that kind of stresses me out at night.

[Hoda Kotb]

How do you comb through? Cause I feel the same way. I mean, I'll look at a video one night and realize how poorly I handled. Or at least I feel like I handled something with my child. And sometimes you're like, should they cry it out? Should I be nurturing? Are they too, you know, are they too. They're not independent. What am I doing? What parenting things did you take from your mom? And which things did you leave behind and say, I'm not gonna do that the way my mom did?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I really think that majority of everything from my childh I try to do it with my children. I know a lot of people look back on their childhood and say, like, I wanna do everything differently than the way I loved my childhood. I looked back at it, and I think that it was such a magical place my parents created for us to grow up in an environment. There are certain things that I think they just didn't have the language to talk about, whether it's big feelings or. I know my mom always talks about the fact that I have a schedule for my kids as being very foreign to her. So I think that I'm doing differently. I think talking about feelings and, you know, emotions very openly wasn't something that they had the tools to do back then that I'm really trying to do now with my kids and is also a very different experience even for my husband, to be able to shift that. Cause that's not how he grew up at all. And my mom was ahead of the game with how she talked very openly with us kids about our feelings and also really talked openly with us about repair. And so if she did something that maybe she didn't like the way she handled something, she would come and repair that with us and have a conversation with us, which was very ahead of the game for her. And so that's something that, like, Chris and I are always learning. How much of that to do how little of that to do, you know, how do you find that balance, especially as partners and also just with kids wanting to raise kids that are in touch with their emotions, but also understand the world around them and moving forward and working through them.

[Hoda Kotb]

And how do you teach things? And I've thought about this too. Like, grit. Like someone was, you know, we were talking about how this generation of kids, and probably the last couple too, have more attention, more resources to get better. Some are on more meds. There's like. But yet they're not moving forward because the grit piece isn't there. But how do you teach that? Like, what's your philosophy on that?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, I think that it's a combination. I know there's like a huge wave of parenting that's going one direction of, like, too much coddling. It feels a little bit like it's coming to a happy medium now. I would say just, you know, my kids are so young still. But I mean, you know, we have chores. If they don't do their chores, we have, you know, conversation.

[Hoda Kotb]

What do they do?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

They're age appropriate chores for right now. But, like, for, you know, for Lila, she has to clear her plate. She has to put her things in the dishwasher. She has to pick up after herself. She, you know, skipped a step and likes making her bed, which thrills my father. So, I mean, they feel so proud of themselves after they do things like that. Yeah. And I think we have conversations with them about, like, you know, how to get along with one another. Like, my middle child, Eloise, is very different than her older sister, but still feels really proud when she can line up all her stuffies in a row. And she's now starting to want to clear her plate and copy it. Cause she sees that Lila's doing it. So it's really sweet to see their dynamic. And also, I think, you know, as they get older, we fully want to be able to instill that need of awareness around, like, if this doesn't happen, then this doesn't happen. Having consequences that are age appropriate for them, things like that.

[Hoda Kotb]

I think it's cool how you were saying that you and Chris are like, he was raised one way, you were raised another way, and yet you found this place. Cause I think a lot of people think, well, look how I turned out. I'm great and I was raised that way. I mean, everybody says that. And yet at the end of the day, we can do better. Yes.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

But we think what we had was best. How did you find that kind of in between place that, you know, brought him.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Honestly, doing our premarital counseling before we got married was so helpful. And we still do couples therapy today.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's great.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

And that's been really helpful for us to be able to have those conversations about parenting, about, you know, work, about finances, about our relationship, communication. And it's really taught us a way of communicating and understanding one another that I don't think we would have been able to do had we not had this place of doing. Having that form of.

[Hoda Kotb]

So interesting.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, speaking about things like finances, parenting, like things that you think are almost. We'll figure that out. It's no big deal. We don't have to address it.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah. When we were engaged, we had to do premarital counseling as part of getting married in the Catholic Church. And so when we did it, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so silly. We're needing to do this. But also great because we got engaged after six months of dating. So I was like, this could be good.

[Hoda Kotb]

Kind of a distinguish.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

But we did it. And we. We did these eight courses, and they were two and a half or three hours each course. And we covered everything, like, every single thing that you thought, I don't need to talk about this, like drugs. We talked about addiction, we talked about finances. We talked about fidelity and how we want to raise our kids, what religion we want to raise our kids. I mean, everything.

[Hoda Kotb]

What was the toughest nut there to.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, honestly, there was so much of it that I felt like I knew what his answer would be, but also led to really eye opening conversations, but parenting being a big part of it, because, you know, when I met Chris, he had a son already, which was such an amazing blessing to be able to witness, you know, his interaction with him and being a father and then being able to talk about his experience, but also what I had as, like a vision for myself because I didn't have children yet. So I wanted to be able to have those conversations and where I might differ in my opinion. And I think it really, you know, it also is shown in subjects that are talked about in this book, like overcoming your fears. How do you want to handle that? How do we handle those conversations as parents with our children? Or bravery or courage, or even having animals around your children, like, what's your. Do you want the responsibility? Are you somebody who doesn't want that? There's all those conversations. We talked about it all.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow. More with Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt after the break.

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[Hoda Kotb]

One of the things that you guys have that's probably paramount in your relationship is your faith. And I feel like that was one of the grounding things. How does faith play out for you on like a random day like today? Like how is it incorporated in your daily life?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Well I think in our daily lives, you know, we pray at meals, which is something I did growing up and something that you know, Chris was a really big fan of doing as well and he does on his own too. So we have that as part of our daily routine. Every morning I wake up and I, I pray right away. Like I thank God for allowing me to wake up. I thank God for all my blessings and same thing right before I go to sleep. So it's definitely a big part of our life and my life and our kids lives and has been a big part of my life my whole life. Obviously both My parents, my mom, very much so, my grandma. So it's been present in my life and a huge value of mine that we definitely connected on. That way.

[Hoda Kotb]

You said when you sit around the table, you said you pray before. And one thing Maria always talks about are her. Her dinners.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

And one day, it was so funny. We were at the Today show, and there was a song by, like, Idina Menzel called at this table. And I heard it, and I got chills. I'm getting chills now. And I played it for your mom. And she kind of ran away from me. I was like, what is up with me?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I scare her.

[Hoda Kotb]

She's like. And I went up to the makeup room, and she was crying.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because I said, isn't. I said, this is you. I sent it to her. I go, I think this is you.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I think I was. Yeah, she showed it to me right after this table.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. But that whole. I mean, I can imagine what the meals must be like and the conversations. How did that play out for you as a kid? And is it something you replicate or is that left to your childhood?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Well, no. I mean, we go to my mom's every Sunday for dinner, so it's definitely a huge part of my routine and something that I look forward to. And now my kids look forward to.

[Hoda Kotb]

Who comes to the table? Like, what is that?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, it's random. Let me tell you. There are the staples every week, which is our family. And then you never really know who you're going to like. My Chris always says this. He's like, is tonight one of those nights that I go and I wear sweatpants or do I need to dress up? Because who's coming to dinner? I'm like, you never know. Like, you don't know. It could be a world leader. It could be a politician. It could be an actor, a singer. It could be our neighbor. It could. I mean, it literally. It could be our longtime friend or a family member. Like, it is.

[Hoda Kotb]

And what are the conversations? Where does it go?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Like, I mean, it's always something new, and it always usually leaves somebody in some sort of, like, emotional experience of, like, a revelation of something about their lives or, you know, it's always very lively, very at Sometimes chaotic. But the conversations are. And people want to come.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

To the dinners. Everybody's like, when can I come to Sunday dinner? Because they're so. I mean, the conversations that come from them are just incredible. And also the relationships and the connections. Like, my mom, as you know, is a connector. Like, she Loves.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Setting people up, literally. And also she loves being able to, like, connect friends, connect people who might work well together, start relationships, friendships, and also just introduce people to one another. So it was really how I grew up. And I feel like she also invites people over who have different viewpoints, different belief systems, because that's how I grew up. I mean, my parents had different political backgrounds, and so I grew up with people having different opinions and being respectful of that and just talking about it. And she really exposes people to that same experience.

[Hoda Kotb]

Now, one of the things that was really jarring. I'm gonna bring your mom up one more time. Was when she wrote her book.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I read those pages.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I know. Sobbed, right?

[Hoda Kotb]

Sobbed.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I know. Me too.

[Hoda Kotb]

I just was like. Cause I guess I do. I just didn't imagine someone who is. You know where she is, who was on her knees like that continuously, it sounds like, through parts of her life. What was it like for you as her daughter, seeing and reading all that?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, I was sobbing when she first gave it to me. She, of course, didn't even give me any lead in. She's like. So I was thinking of. I collected all of my poetry. And I knew she was really interested in poetry, of course, but she handed it to me, and I was like, okay, I'll read this. And I think I was pregnant at the. And I was like, I'll read this. What is it? And she was like, it's kind of just a collection. I'm playing with the idea of just collecting all of my poems. And I was like, okay, that's great. And I remember I had it at my house, and I picked it up one evening and I read it. And I remember I started reading it, and I called my mom, and I was like, what is this? I was like, whoa, you need to give people a warning before you throw this on them.

[Hoda Kotb]

I just thought I'd put some poems out.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I mean, it is deep and also intense and. And I. You know, I admire my mom with, like, every single role and every journey she's gone through, but the poetry was just, like, next level. And it was. I was hysterical and, of course, so proud that she had the ability to put all that down and to create all of that. But also, it was, you know, as her daughter, very eye opening, admirable, heartbreaking, of course, at times, and very raw. It was like the rawest thing I'd ever seen. My mom put out a couple of.

[Hoda Kotb]

Things in her poetry book. Really moved me. One was sitting in front of her Mother's door, which was devastating. And the other was about your dad, her husband, during all of that time. And then the public square and how she described. Everyone kind of has their own public square. I thought that was super brave, and I hadn't heard her discuss that before. That must have been a. Oh, God. What's happening here, Mom?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I was like, whew. Yeah. But I mean, I think for my mom, I always. My mom always had talked to me and my siblings growing up about trusting your gut with things. And when I was. When she first said that to me when I was younger, I was like, what does that mean? I can't trust my gut? And she. She always does that. And she leads by example in that way. And I think with her book or whatever she does, with her amazing work that she puts out there, she always trusts her gut with what she thinks is going to help someone or help her heal or move forward. And I think that's what she did, clearly, with the book.

[Hoda Kotb]

Having conversations with little kids, which is what I mean. I've had to have many conversations with my girls about lots of things. One of them is adoption, which is. It's like, an unusual topic because Mommy, Mommy. And I always said, you're born in my heart, honey. You weren't born in my tummy. You were born in my heart. And that went on for a few years. And then I was walking behind Haley, and she was walking with another little girl, and they pointed out someone was pregnant. And she was like, oh, I came from my mommy's tummy. And Haley goes, I didn't. I came from my mom's heart. And the kid was looking at her like, what? And I go, haley. So I gotta. I'm gonna amend what we said.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Let's just take it back and ask. That was true, however, that's so Swee.

[Hoda Kotb]

I said, actually, Haley, everybody's born from somebody's tummy. And I said, and since I couldn't hold you in my tummy, God did something really cool. He sent this really great angel mommy person to carry you, and her job was to carry you and bring you to me. She said, is she out there? I said, yeah, somewhere. We don't know where, but she's somewhere. Okay, let's see. Like. And so she understood that she came from someone introducing little by the questions that they ask.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

You're just like, no. Where's the manual?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Have you had to have any kind of tricky conversations with your kids or things that you had to explain?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

I haven't had a ton of them yet. However, my girls are very curious, so they ask questions all day long about everything from the person walking by them, what color hair they have to someone's outfit, to a dynamic between two people. They watch my parents together, and they just, like, stare at them, ask a bunch of questions, keep staring at them, take it all in, ask some more. You know, they're just like. So I'm waiting for.

[Hoda Kotb]

For them.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

You wait for them to ask.

[Hoda Kotb]

You don't totally tear anything yet?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

No, I don't. I really take my cues from what they see as being a question or something that they want to know more about and also having conversations with them that are age appropriate. I try to prep ahead of time with things that I think might come up, but I really do take their lead with certain things. And then I read somewhere when kids ask questions that you ask the question back to them to kind of see where they're at, maturity wise.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

So, like, recently, my horse Cinco passed away. And I spent the past two years, of course, writing this book, getting it to where it is and talking about my horse Brandy and talking about my love for her and my love for animals. And I got Cinco around the same time, a little bit after I got Brandy. And so he's been in my life for 24 years. And so he's been a huge presence and a huge figure in my life of, you know, not only being able to witness so much of my life, which is such a gift, but also, you know, he's where I went to have peace and have calm so much of my life. And whether it was in high school, in the first breakup I ever had, or my parents getting separated or moving or going to college, I always went to the barn to be with Cinco. And so that was a huge loss for me. And I. My kids had all been around Cinco and, you know, had a lot of experience around him, and they knew that he was older. But when I took them to the barn after he passed away, they, of course, were wondering where Cinco was. And so I had a very open, honest conversation with them that I had actually asked my mom beforehand, like, how do I navigate that? And I talked to them about it, and they said, where is Cinco? Where did he go? And I said, cinco went to heaven. And they said, what do you mean he went to heaven? And I said, God decided it was time for Cinco to go to heaven. And. And I looked at my. My daughter Lila was like, he went to heaven. And I was like, he went. Cause you never know their reaction. Like, is it, you know, she's like, he went to heaven. And I was like, yes, he did. And then Eloise was like, is he in his stall in heaven? What's he doing in heaven? And I was like, I don't know. What do you think he's doing in heaven? So we. It led to this cool, long, really interesting conversation about what they thought he was doing, who they thought that, you know, was he running free again? Was he eating carrot? Like, they used their imagination to really create a world where Cinco passing away was like this beautiful, amazing and exciting world in their mind where he could just be young and run around and eat whatever he wanted and do whatever he wanted. And it was really exciting for them. And they still had times where they were like, when am I gonna see Cinco again? So understanding that that wouldn't be something that they're gonna, you know, they're not gonna be able to see him again. But that was an interesting conversation that I didn't anticipate having or having it go that way. But also looking at, you know, life and death in such different ways and looking at it through the eyes of a child and seeing how they interpret that and they understand that. And so it was just, you know, one of those conversations. Yeah, that's so beautiful.

[Hoda Kotb]

And also hard for you. Cause you're going through something and to.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Watch your kids, to pull it together, I'm like, yeah, you're like, I do.

[Hoda Kotb]

This more to come with Katherine Schwarzenegger. Pratt. Stay with us.

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different. Good different. Try something that feels like you, you know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail] Let us surprise you. You obviously take care of your mental health and all that stuff. So what.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

What do you do?

[Hoda Kotb]

Just tell me some things that you do on a daily basis that helps you. Because I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast are looking for ways.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah, for sure.

[Hoda Kotb]

They can make space for themselves.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Feel good.

[Hoda Kotb]

What do you do?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Tm Transcendental Meditation.

[Hoda Kotb]

So good.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Big for me. I do it every morning, and then I try to sprinkle another one throughout the day. But sometimes it doesn't always happen. But that practice for me, which has been for a year and a half, has been really incredible for me and allowed me to have a practice that I can find my inner calm and center myself. And I always watched my mom do it, and I was like, I don't understand what she's doing. What she's doing, okay, she's sitting outside by herself, like, doing something. But I really have been able to experience the benefits of having that be a practice in my life. And it's been. It's changed the way that I am as a mother, as a wife, as a friend, and as a sister and a daughter. And so. So it's just changed me in so many different ways that I would say to anybody who's questioning it, it's an amazing thing to have in your life. I think you also have to be at a place in your life where you're willing to receive it and implement it into your life. Because my mom did try to have it be a part of my life when her and my dad separated. And I was like, what is this? I'm not doing. This is not for me. So I think you have to be in a place where you're ready for it. I would say I do therapy. I have therapy every single week that has been. Been really incredible for me. I love being able to have that as a place that I can communicate, ask questions, ask parenting questions, life questions. And step parenting questions as well, because that, you know, I like to be able to gather information and prepare. And I would say spending time with my kids, but also having something that I can do that's just with my husband and I is also really helpful. Very challenging to do, find that time. And I think just being gentle with myself. My mom always says that to me. She's always like, be gentle with yourself. Give yourself grace. You're doing great. And so I try to also have that be a part of my life every day when I'm, you know, if I'm critical of myself or wish I was doing something differently or just having that in my mind, to be gentle with myself is really important. And also moving my body, that's a big one. I take my kids on walks all the time. You know, I go to the barn, we horseback ride. I love being out in nature. I take a lot of walks. I used to hike a lot. That's cool. So anything that will really get me moving my body.

[Hoda Kotb]

And lastly, if you had a day that's all yours, from the moment you opened your eyes to the moment you fell asleep and you could feel it any way you wanted. You had no obligations, nothing you had to do, but you could do what you wanted. When would you wake up? How would the day unfold and how would it wrap up?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Bright and early, I'd wake up. I've always been an early riser my whole life, and I would wake up early for sure. And I honestly would probably spend the entire day at the barn because I would spend it by myself, and I would also spend it with my kids and my family and my friends. I have been able to have so many amazing moments in my life at the barn and in the presence of animals, and it's truly, like, my ideal day. And I remember being pregnant with my daughter Eloise, and I was at the barn, and Chris was walking around with Lila, and I was laying on the grass outside of my horse's stall, and I was just, like, in absolute heaven and bliss. And he was like, I've never seen you be so at peace as you were, like, laying there in the presence of being in nature with horses and just being so for me, if I had an ideal day, I would spend the entire day there. And it's where Chris and I had our first date. It's where I had my bachelorette.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, really?

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Where I, you know, did wedding prep there. I've taken my kids there. I've been pregnant there. So I think for me, being able to go back there with, like, my loved ones is my ideal day.

[Hoda Kotb]

Beautiful.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

All right. You got to pick up this book. It's called Cat and Brandy by Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt. Katherine, thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, guys, thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Mitch Rissmiller, along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Mastarilli. Our audio engineers are Matt Tierney and Joe Plord. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle. Holiday PSA from dsw. This is your reminder that shoes are a gift. Literally. So unwra something good, like boots that inspire your next big adventure or cozy.

[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

Slippers that give you an excuse to.

[Hoda Kotb]

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[Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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