← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Kathie Lee Gifford and Hoda Kotb Reunite to Talk Friendship, Purpose and Choosing Joy
00:30:15
Kathie Lee Gifford has spent decades connecting with audiences as a television host, author, producer and storyteller whose faith and optimism have shaped her work. In her first-ever appearance on "Making Space," Kathie Lee reunites with Hoda for a conversation about the bond they built working side by side, navigating grief and loss while celebrating new beginnings, and finding purpose through every stage of life. Plus, she opens up about life as a grandmother to five and why she believes we are always still becoming.
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- [00:00]
Hoda Kotb
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Hoda Kotb
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- [00:31]
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- [00:53]
Hoda Kotb
When you show up to work every day. It's rare for a colleague to become part of who you are. But when you spend 11 years next to someone, sharing real life in real time, they become family. For years, Kathie Lee Gifford and I sat side by side, inviting millions of people into our mornings. We laughed, we cried, we talked about big things and small things. And in those moments, we shared a kind of joy that felt both public and deeply personal. Over the years, Kathie Lee has been so many things an actress, a singer, an author, a playwright, a producer, a mother, a wife, a television host. But through every season, what has never changed is her heart for connection, her faith, and her desire to live with purpose. Today, we are no longer sitting at the same desk, but we are both continuing to grow and transform in our own ways. This is a season of new beginnings, of deeper faith, of celebrating joy, and of continuing to say yes to what feels true. This conversation is about what it means to keep evolving even after a full life, about friendship that lasts beyond a shared chapter, about grief and gratitude living side by side and the courage it takes to keep becoming who you are meant to be. I'm Hoda Kotb and this is my podcast Making Space. Since I've known you, you've said something over and over and over again. Here it is. If you have a pulse, you have a purpose. So what is your purpose right now?
- [02:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Oh, just getting through the day. The older I get, it's more that how many more hours to go, Lord, before I get to go night night so bad it changes like the seasons of your life. And if you're hanging on for dear life to the old ones, you're gonna miss the present, which is, you know, it's a pun. But the present is a gift. And we never how long know the gift will last. We Just don't know, you know, I've lost so many precious people. It seems to. I remember Frank saying at a certain point in his life when he was. He said, kath, they're all dying or they're all gone now. And I'd go, it seems that way, sweetheart, but you're still here. But you could go at any minute and we'd laugh about it. And then even my dog, my precious dog bambino died last year. And I said, even you, bambino. I'm running out of people to talk to. There's too many. I don't have time to pray for the ones that are still here and hanging on for dear life.
- [03:29]
Hoda Kotb
So what does. Like, what gets you up? Like, what is the thing that you go. Because you guys don't. What is it? What are you gonna say?
- [03:38]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Well, I am now the hipless wonder. I was sitting on a rooftop. I just had my hip replaced. And this gorgeous group of guys, you know, come in and they're sitting next to me and they're looking at me and stuff. I go, hey, you guys want to have a really good time with a. With a one hipped wonder? They're so bad. So you know what? My sense of humor.
- [03:58]
Hoda Kotb
Yes.
- [03:58]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Is so important. I still have that. But if I didn't have my faith, which has always been the core of who I am and what I am, I would have lost my sense of humor, too. I really would have. And I went through a very, very dark. You knew about it, Hoda. But I didn't say much about it. I didn't go out in public a lot. I just didn't. I've always wanted to be a blessing instead of a burden to people. And I can't stand the thought of getting to the point where my children have to take care of me or my loved ones have to worry about me all the time. But then again, they'll come to Connecticut, spend time with my precious grandchildren. Cody has three now. Beautiful, beautiful children.
- [04:36]
Hoda Kotb
Cody has three. How many does Cass have?
- [04:37]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Two. So you have five grandchildren. Five grandchildren in three years.
- [04:43]
Hoda Kotb
Wait, what.
- [04:46]
Kathie Lee Gifford
If I'm twitching weird, it's because it's pandemonium.
- [04:50]
Hoda Kotb
What's the difference from holding, like, one of your son's children versus holding casses?
- [04:56]
Kathie Lee Gifford
None.
- [04:56]
Hoda Kotb
None.
- [04:57]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Yeah, except Cassidy's daughter is the biggest baby. I can't even lift her.
- [05:01]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, really?
- [05:02]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I haven't been able to lift her. Of course, I didn't have an arm at the time, but, you know, she was. You know how tiny my daughter is. Of course, little Cassidy weighs maybe 90 pounds wet. She. This is her second baby, and the baby was nine pounds, three ounces.
- [05:18]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my gosh.
- [05:19]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And she pushed three times, and. And I'm going, how are you? I had two cesarean sections with my children, and she's just like, yeah, see the kid give her ribs. So her name is Rosie Mae, and we call her Rosie Cheeks. She's six months old now.
- [05:35]
Hoda Kotb
How do you describe Cass as a mom? What's she like?
- [05:38]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Not great. She was a heck of a good actress, but she's. No, she's. I think that's one of the most joyful things in my life, is watching my children be such amazing parents. If Frank and I did anything right, it would be that. And yesterday I was out to lunch, and Cody's little boy, Frankie, is three and a half. And little Ford just turned two. And all the waitstaff comes by, and Ford, they both put out their hands to everybody. They go, nice to meet you.
- [06:09]
Hoda Kotb
That was your thing, by the way, with your kids. And I remember that. That was, like, one of those things. There's so many things, obviously, that never left me. But the way you made your kids say please and thank you and how you treat people.
- [06:24]
Kathie Lee Gifford
But they've gone beyond that. They teach make eye contact. When you're two, put your hand and go, nice to meet you. And then they're leaving. They're like, happy New Year.
- [06:33]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my God, I'm so happy.
- [06:34]
Kathie Lee Gifford
God bless you. And what's your name? I'm 40. You know, I mean, they're just incredible that way. And then their latest one, Faithy. Faith is three months old and looks just like Elizabeth Taylor.
- [06:47]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my God.
- [06:50]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I'm all that. She's just perfect. She looks a lot like her mama.
- [06:54]
Hoda Kotb
She does.
- [06:54]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Erica's a beautiful girl. No, they're doing great. You know what? I'm so blessed about Hoda. They both married the love of their lives. They did. Cass and Ben had known each other since they were 11 and 14, and they were always together. We said, but they're gonna get married someday. Erica was just teasing yesterday about how many years she dated Kody until he finally said, all right, let's do it. But once they started having their babies, nobody came up for air, that's for sure.
- [07:20]
Hoda Kotb
When I think about you and Frank. How many years has it been since Frank passed?
- [07:24]
Kathie Lee Gifford
10 and a half now. Hoped it was on your birthday.
- [07:27]
Hoda Kotb
I know, but I remember I never.
- [07:30]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I wanted you to know before you got off a plane from New Orleans and saw on social media or something. And I said, I don't even want to tell her, because she's gonna come here. She's gonna say, I've gotta go be with her. I've gotta go hug her. I won't stay long. I could just hear your process. You pulled a ho to that day, too.
- [07:48]
Hoda Kotb
Well, I remember. Cause I was on the. And I was like, oh, Kat's calling. And I was just landing or just about to. And you said, frank went to the Lord. And I literally was. I don't know. I was so shocked because I'd just seen you guys together. And I remember you said, and don't come here. I'm good. I'm fine. It was your birthday, and you said, it's your birthday. And I remember going to the airport. Whoever I was with, nobody knows anyway, I said to whoever that person was, you go home. I'm gonna go to see Kath. And I remember walking into your backyard, and I saw the back of you, and you turned around and you go, I'm glad you came. And I was like, I just remember the whole.
- [08:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I know there's certain things that are just seared into your soul, you know? And that was one of them. You never forget that day. It was beautiful. Beautiful August 9th morning, and we were getting ready for church, and he had just had the best. This should be a lesson to everybody. You know, he was one week shy of his 85th birthday, and he was in phenomenal shape.
- [08:54]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [08:54]
Kathie Lee Gifford
You know, he. That morning, he'd gotten on his. He took great care of himself. He got on the scale. Your weight is 178 pounds.
- [09:02]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [09:02]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And I remember saying, oh, it's going to be a good day. That was his favorite weight to play. He played that weight for 12 years with the Giants. And he'd get off. He'd gain some weight in the off season and stuff, but he'd be back. And that was his fight and weight.
- [09:14]
Hoda Kotb
That was his fighting weight. Yeah.
- [09:15]
Kathie Lee Gifford
The other thing I remember was a beautiful day. We live on the water, so all the kayakers were going by. And he would always go over to the end of our property or on the side, and he'd wave to everybody, how's there is a fish jumping you? He just loved. He loved people. And I came downstairs, and he wasn't in the chair that I had left him in. He'd been drinking coffee. His coffee. And having cornbread. And to this day, I cannot look at a piece of cornbread. And when I came downstairs, he wasn't there. And I went, babe, lamb, I Always called him lamb for lamb chop. And I turned over and he was on his back. And the coffee cup had not. It had dropped, obviously, but had not broken. And this was the look on his face.
- [09:58]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my gosh.
- [09:59]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And I said, oh, my God. He saw Jesus. And Jesus took his breath away.
- [10:04]
Hoda Kotb
I'm imagining because one of the things I still remember this so vividly was after Frank died, you came on the air and you spoke about him, like, a week later. A week later, Yeah, a week later. And the number of people I don't know that there was anything that we did on our entire show that was more impactful than that day. That day touched people who were going through incredible tragedy. And I wonder, like, the way you dealt with it. I just think about people listening right now who are saying, I lost someone, and I don't feel what you're feeling. Like, I can't get out of bed. And you spoke to a lot of those people. What do you say to them?
- [10:43]
Kathie Lee Gifford
You know, Hoda, everybody said, kathy, there's no rush. You don't have to get back. You grieve a little. I said, I was grieving for the 10 years before Frank died because he had a lot of CTE in his brain. We knew that. So he started to die long before he did die. And if all of us sort of thought about life that way a little bit, we all die a little bit every day, you know, so let's make a real big effort to live a little bit more than we die, you know, each day. And so I would encourage everybody that's listening the same way I did that. The reason I had so much peace in my life, and Scripture calls it the peace that passes all understanding, because it makes no sense that you've loved this person. You have loved almost 30 years, been married 30 years, loved as a friend for four. Before that, had two beautiful children with and shared a huge life with. And I was crying tears of joy because I knew where he was and who he was with even more importantly. And that comes from a place deep in your soul that you know. Happiness comes from the word happenstance, the root word, which means circumstances. You're happy if your circumstances are good. But joy. You know a lot about joy now, Hoda, You've named your company. I mean, you know, you studied. You've studied it now and experienced it. Joy is something that has nothing to do with your circumstances. It has everything to do with how sacred things are to you and how at peace your soul is. I refuse to go through life feeling like Other people are invisible. And I'm the center of the universe. My parents taught me. No, no, no, no. Did you create the universe? How about we talk to the one that did? Let's see how he feels about it, you know, and then they made me laugh about it and teaching my grandchildren the same thing. We have to pass it on. You're doing it with your girls now. Nobody was more belove than you because of the way you treated people. It doesn't matter. The more and more you live and the more we've won every awards you can get, you know, and at one time in my life, they would have meant the world, you know, and they've ceased meaning anything to me because I know that's not what we leave behind. You know, it's not what matters. I'm leaving behind five beautiful grandchildren, two amazing kids who are, you know, understand what love is. They know how to love the people. That. That's why I' worked so many years with battling child abuse and child neglect. Because I was so aware of the fact that if a child, whatever a child does not get when they are young, that they need. They need. They spend the rest of their life trying to find it.
- [13:21]
Hoda Kotb
Wow, that's very profound.
- [13:23]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And they don't know where to get it. And they go to all the wrong places and they choose the wrong partners and they start numbing. Numbing the emptiness that they feel. And it's also negative and counterproductive. And ultimately they die of the same broken heart that they've lived with their whole life.
- [13:39]
Hoda Kotb
Oh my God. That's very profound. That's so true.
- [13:41]
Kathie Lee Gifford
They never get over their broken heart. Their broken bones will. Maybe you pray to God they'll mend. But many scars are there as a reminder. Scars are reminders. And I have scars all over me now. Nobody wants to see my porn stuff anymore. I used to get offers. Not anymore. My favorite line was, you've lost too many limbs, Kathy.
- [14:08]
Hoda Kotb
That was one of my favorite lines of yours. What are you doing now? Porn. Like you just didn't care. That was.
- [14:14]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I did not care.
- [14:15]
Hoda Kotb
You did not care. You know why?
- [14:17]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Why? Because it got a laugh. You got a laugh? If it got a laugh, I cared a lot. If it didn't get a laugh, it.
- [14:23]
Hoda Kotb
Always got a laugh.
- [14:24]
Kathie Lee Gifford
But I got everybody in the Deep south that laughing now also about that. And that took a while.
- [14:29]
Hoda Kotb
You are so. That was always the magic. I was always so in awe watching you. So I'd see these celebs that you'd known for years and I was meeting for the first time, and when they would sit down, you would say something like, you're gonna wear that? And I was like, oh, my God. And they would.
- [14:43]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Is that cleavage appropriate for this time of the morning?
- [14:47]
Hoda Kotb
They would love it. I was thinking about you, and I was thinking about the things I admired. And their list is so long.
- [14:53]
Kathie Lee Gifford
We don't have time.
- [14:53]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, I know we don't.
- [14:54]
Kathie Lee Gifford
We don't.
- [14:55]
Hoda Kotb
But one of the things I remember so clearly is getting in the backseat of the car with you.
- [15:00]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Oh, how do you talk about that? We promised.
- [15:04]
Hoda Kotb
And then Kath would do the same thing. She would pull out this yellow pad. And I remember this was downtime. This was after we had just done a full day of work. And you would say, I've got something. And you would start scribbling whatever it was, whatever came to you. I have a song idea. Your creative piece was the biggest part to me. I mean, that I saw. So how are you? I know you've got a book coming up, but how are you exercising that part? Cause if you're not creating, you're stagnant. Like, you have to be putting stuff in the wall.
- [15:34]
Kathie Lee Gifford
You know why I feel that way, Ahoda? Because, you know, I believe that God is the creator of all things, and we are at our most godlike when we are co creating with our creator. That's when I'm happiest. When I am. Or most joyful, I should say. When I'm writing a lyric that I know immediately. You know what? I will stop and I'll go, oh, you are good. And I know where it came from. And I write it down before I forget it. Thank God. I mean, my body's falling apart. You'd never know it. But under here, please. Anyway. But my mind is as sharp as it's ever been, and I'm grateful for that. I. Both of my parents had. Well, my mom, she was an adorable dingbat, wasn't she? She really was. I loved your mom, but I'm so grateful for that. I had the kind of parents that I had. We didn't have much, but we didn't have everything we wanted. But we did have everything we needed. And so I want to spend the rest of my life giving whatever I have to people that don't even have what they need. You know, this world we live in is all about stuff. Then you get to a point, like me, that you have. I now have too many houses, too much stuff. Y that need my stuff. My trash is somebody else's treasure. And I don't mean it that way. It's like, look at me. I'm saying that's worth something to somebody and I'm gonna get it out of my house and get it over to them. Cause they don't have a house, right? You know, that is becoming more and more important to me. I don't wanna waste a moment in my life, but I also don't wanna waste a blessing that I'm taking for granted now. You know, I saw it wouldn't be taken for granted if I put it in the right place.
- [17:13]
Hoda Kotb
More to come with Kathie Lee Gifford. Stay with us.
- [17:24]
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- [17:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
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- [17:36]
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- [17:39]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Momento, sen? O frecido porriquea encuentren su pas interior ordenando suropa interior que organizarca da cajon se a como una. Con un nuevo armario. Y vue empresio y que a soenas in medida.
- [18:08]
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- [18:19]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Repeat.
- [18:19]
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- [18:42]
Hoda Kotb
One of the things that, I mean, I have so many memories when I'm looking at you, I just. They all are coming. They just all come back. But I remember you inviting, like, everyone to your house and taking care of, like, our staff coming over. Let's go to cats. Let's go to cats. Passing out wine to every.
- [18:59]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Everybody felt they got their fair share and a bottle.
- [19:02]
Hoda Kotb
Everyone felt home, like you had this ability. And it was something that we had at the show, you and I.
- [19:09]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Yes, we did.
- [19:09]
Hoda Kotb
And whenever a crew member, anybody, Jimmy, it didn't matter, Anthony, whoever, they all.
- [19:15]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Jerry, now you're making me so nostalgic. What a team we had.
- [19:20]
Hoda Kotb
But all but seeing people, like seeing them knowing names, it wasn't like when you came in, you were like, what happened with your Niece, tell me about the birthday. Like it was that kind of a thing.
- [19:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Because if you're taught that you are made in the image of God, that means everyone is. And that that's how you treat people. You may not like them much, but God likes them enough for both of us. And you may not respect them. Maybe they haven't evolved yet the way you think they should, but we have no right. If I spent my life judging people, I would have never learned how to love the unlovely, love the people I disagree with, love Jesus, said they will know you are my followers by how you love one another. And I don't listen to anybody but Jesus anymore. I really don't. My doctor once in a while, but not always. I don't listen to my kids. It's the joy of becoming an old fart, you know, I've become Regis. What's wrong with you? Quickly and efficiently.
- [20:23]
Hoda Kotb
I know the whole idea of being free, like everything that we did and what changed me and every time I give a speech today and I still give them, is I always say the same thing. Like, I spent most of my professional career putting a circle in a square and trying to be something I wasn't until you, until I sat with you.
- [20:39]
Kathie Lee Gifford
You were doing darn well, sweetie. You had more Emmys than I did. I never won Emmys anybody, until I sat down with her.
- [20:45]
Hoda Kotb
But the funny thing is, I remember not even knowing that I was putting a circle in a square that you'd.
- [20:51]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Been taught to, right?
- [20:52]
Hoda Kotb
I thought, that's how it fits. That's how it felt.
- [20:54]
Kathie Lee Gifford
You make it fit, right?
- [20:55]
Hoda Kotb
And then when I sat with you, it was like, I didn't know it could feel this way. And you kept saying, just because it's fun and it feels effortless. Cause for us, it did, it did. It didn't mean it wasn't work. Like, I understood from that minute, from the minute with the cards, from the minute we sat next to each other.
- [21:14]
Kathie Lee Gifford
The wind took the cards.
- [21:15]
Hoda Kotb
Oh my God.
- [21:15]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I screamed out, it's a miracle. The wind came up outside on the plaza. And I said, I said, then, now we're gonna get rid of the ift.
- [21:22]
Hoda Kotb
So the story is, is I was so anchored to knowing the cards when Kath and I started working together. So I was like, camera one, camera two, camera one, camera two. Uh huh. Got it. And Kath was like, anyway, so here's a good story. And I was like, okay, great. So I was listening to the producers, I was following the cards, I was doing all the things I was supposed to do.
- [21:40]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Because of your training.
- [21:40]
Hoda Kotb
Because of my training. And then it was like, all of a sudden, I'm looking at you, and then, like, life happens. It just became real.
- [21:48]
Kathie Lee Gifford
So let it.
- [21:49]
Hoda Kotb
Let it happen.
- [21:50]
Kathie Lee Gifford
That's where the gold is. That's when you start mining the gold.
- [21:53]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, my God.
- [21:53]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And then when, you know, we were forced off the plaza for making too much noise. Yes. And then we came into the studio, and then I realized. I don't know when it. It was a shift in you. We started to really trust each other. And you knew. And Frank had said that to you. She will have your back, Hoda. Don't worry about it. You can trust her.
- [22:12]
Hoda Kotb
And this is before. If you're listening to, know this. When the fourth hour started, and I was working with Natalie and Natalie Moralson and Curry. And then Kath came in one day, both of them were off. And Amy Rosenblum and I had seen.
- [22:26]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I just saw Amy. She said to send her. Yep.
- [22:28]
Hoda Kotb
We saw Kath having lunch, and we asked her if she would fill in one day. And when Kathy filled in, when you filled in that day, I'll never forget it. It was like. It's like someone turned the lights on. Kathy, out in the crowd, you were just dazzling. I was like, I almost wasn't even paying attention to anything else. I was just watching you and the.
- [22:47]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Powers, because I wasn't auditioning. It was. I mean, who gives a.
- [22:49]
Hoda Kotb
Ribs and the powers that be have done something they've never done at NBC. They came across the street. Remember? They were like, Kathie Lee. Oh, my God, that was amazing. And they wanted Kath to come back. And here's the truth of it. They wanted Kathie to come back, and they were going to decide who would be with Kath. And Kathy said to them, I'll only do it if it's with Hoda. Like, you chose me. That's why.
- [23:14]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Because of the lunch we had, I didn't want to come back to daytime television. This is so fun to reminisce like this. Hoda, I love you.
- [23:21]
Hoda Kotb
I love you, too.
- [23:22]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And I've loved you since the day I met you. Because I wasn't watching daytime television. I was writing a Broadway show at the time. And that takes a lot of effort. And I met you that day at the restaurant, Michael's Restaurant. I think the beauty of that day was about tenfold. But for me, the main thing was I had no idea how much in common we had. Boy, right from the very beginning, it was our families yes, it was. You adored your daddy and you know, and you had lost him and your mom and your, and your brother and your sister. And I just, oh my gosh. Sobbing and after that and I sang for you.
- [23:59]
Hoda Kotb
That was my favorite moment.
- [24:00]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I wanna met her and she's, woo hoo. She's an easy mark.
- [24:07]
Hoda Kotb
She's not gonna be much work, but from when. And I remember going over to your house and you said, I want you to meet my family. And I was thinking to myself, oh my God, this was so amazing to me. And I met Frank and Frank said, I need to talk to you. And it was just me and Frank and he said, I had a very successful show. We had this number of viewers. And he said, I'll tell you why it worked. He said, because we had trust enough. We trusted each other that if we fell, the other would catch.
- [24:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Except for Howard Cosell. That's when it really took off after he, he left. There was that, there was that.
- [24:38]
Hoda Kotb
And I remember you said, he goes, kathy is the most trustworthy person I've ever met. And if you're even half of that, you'll have a great show. But you have to trust and she has to be able to trust you. And I remember I walked out of there and I was thinking to myself, my God. And then, ever since then, ever since we got on the air together, it.
- [24:55]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Was magic because we started it's the Secret. Everybody's asked me that my whole life. What was the secret with you and Regis? And I would go, it's a three letter word, it's pretty easy. F, U, N, fun. And when you and I started having fun and to live in the moment and the other things were holding you back, they were holding you back. The woman that I had lunch with that day for three hours and then we went to the ladies room. Lot happens in the ladies room, believe me. And we were going, I had a trip back to Connecticut and so I was visiting the ladies room for the long trip. It could be four hours, it could be 20 minutes, you know, depending. And you were going back to NBC, I think I remember, and wherever Hoda woman goes. And I said, you know what, Hoda, I just adore you. This was so much fun. And I said, you know, if we ever did have a show together, I think we would have a great show, you know. But I said, but I don't think we can at 10 o' clock in the morning. It was hard enough for Regis and I to get that kind of success. Cause people stopped watching TV at Least they used to at that time. They left the TVs and they went to work or they went about their days. We would have to create something that was not there.
- [26:02]
Hoda Kotb
Yes.
- [26:05]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Time. And so I said, but. But I don't think I'm ever coming back to daytime television. But if I did, well, I know that we would just have a ball because I liked you so much as a human being. And then later I said to you, and this was the most important thing, you know, that girl, that woman that I had lunch with, that we laughed and we cried and we peed our pants. Where is. I need her right now. While the cameras are, you know.
- [26:27]
Hoda Kotb
Yes.
- [26:27]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And I said, you said don't talk to people in that respect.
- [26:30]
Hoda Kotb
That was the difference. Cause you said, be that girl.
- [26:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
What are you doing? Yes.
- [26:35]
Hoda Kotb
Yes.
- [26:35]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Because I knew your instincts, your comedic instincts. I'd never seen them before. You know, I didn't watch you before, but that year I saw you. I just started seeing you drop all the stuff that. Wait a minute. I'm wearing too much clothing. I don't need all this.
- [26:53]
Hoda Kotb
More ahead with Kath. Stay with us.
- [27:02]
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- [27:47]
Hoda Kotb
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- [28:02]
Kathie Lee Gifford
What do you have to lose?
- [28:03]
Hoda Kotb
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- [28:21]
Hoda Kotb
Okay, so wait as we wind this down. You have a book?
- [28:24]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Yeah.
- [28:24]
Hoda Kotb
You got a book? What is this book talking about this.
- [28:26]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Is about Nero, Nero and the Apostle Paul. It's a series called the Ancient Evil Living Hope.
- [28:31]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, yeah, Tell me.
- [28:32]
Kathie Lee Gifford
People ask me all the time, kathy, do you think there's more evil in the world than there used to be? And I said, no, it seems like it. Everybody's got their cell phones, so they capture things that we would have never seen on a nightly news. And it's evil. We know it when we see it and we're appalled by it. We used to be when shame had a place in this world. And then I said, and there's 24 hour cable television, which, whether we want to see it or not, is hard to get away. It seems like there's more evil by so. But evil has been here since creation in the Garden of Eden. Even if you don't believe in it metaphorically. There was evil there in the form of the serpent. God was walking in the coolness of the evening with the male and the female. He had created not to control, but to have fellowship with him. That's what creator God has always wanted. He doesn't want religion from us. He wants relationship. So I said, so he was trying to mess everything up for us even then. No question about it. And so my life is a bit about studying all of those things. And it's fascinated me like nothing. I got thrown out of school, you know that. I got thrown out of Sunday school. I got thrown out of the Brownies. You know why? Cause I didn't believe a word they were teaching me.
- [29:36]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [29:36]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And I wanted to find out on my own.
- [29:38]
Hoda Kotb
On your own.
- [29:38]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Yeah, on my own.
- [29:39]
Hoda Kotb
But this book.
- [29:39]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Yeah, the book was Cody's idea. Yeah, whatever. I paid for his master's degree from Oxford University. I'm finally getting some Ka Ching from it, if you know what I'm saying. He said, mom, you know when you used to come back from all your rabbinical trips to Israel, you'd be so fascinated by Herod, so fascinated by. Because you don't have a drama unless you have a protagonist and an antagonist. And the ones that are in the scriptures are the evil beyond evil. And they're just. And their stories have never really been told, especially in the faith based world, because the faith based world has been afraid to. They homogenize it all. And we don't want to offend. No. Tell what happens the truth because the scripture's very clear how evil these people were. I do the audio.
- [30:23]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, you do the audio now?
- [30:25]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Maybe you will when you're on your check.
- [30:26]
Hoda Kotb
See that's when I'll do it.
- [30:27]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I'm going to listen.
- [30:28]
Hoda Kotb
I've read many of your books. Okay, so this podcast is called Making Space. So when you have. That's what it's called. When you have a day, that's all for you. You don't have one obligation. You have no one who needs you. You open your eyes in the morning and you can fill it any way you want. How would you fill that space?
- [30:51]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Oh, I would make space for FaceTiming.
- [30:53]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, that's good. Yeah.
- [30:55]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I could not survive living in Tennessee. Cassidy and Ben live there too, but they are everywhere. They're all over. And Cody and Erica live in Connecticut. But FaceTime didn't used to. I thought, what if I. They know me now, hoda, because we FaceTime every day.
- [31:09]
Hoda Kotb
I love that.
- [31:10]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And they call me Booby.
- [31:11]
Hoda Kotb
Booby.
- [31:12]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Booby is Yiddish for grandma.
- [31:14]
Hoda Kotb
Yes.
- [31:15]
Kathie Lee Gifford
And I wasn't gonna be Glamma.
- [31:16]
Hoda Kotb
No.
- [31:17]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I wasn't gonna be granny. I wasn't gonna be a grandmother. And I wasn't gonna be nanny. I wasn't gonna. It's fine if you all love it. Fine. Just you be you. So I asked my friend whose mother is Israeli, and she tells me lots of dirty stuff in Yiddish and I love her anyway. I said, what is the word in Yiddish for grandmother? And she goes, bubi. Cause it becomes like, bubala. Oh, my little buba la. And I said, that's me.
- [31:41]
Hoda Kotb
That's it.
- [31:41]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I knew instantly I love it. So bubala makes time for FaceTiming. Cause otherwise I'm on my 38th book. And we're making plans now to make them into docu series. Oh, awesome. And I've written a song. Every expert who's ever worked on the Shroud of Turin all around the world for decades and decades and now centuries has tried to refute the act accuracy of it. Technology and science is finally caught up. And I wrote the theme song for the new documentary on. It's called Sindone. It means shroud in Italian. And we started every morning with it. Sindoni did the video with the boys. You met them? They.
- [32:16]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, I love that.
- [32:17]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Wrote it with them. So that's coming. That's coming out soon too. And that's gonna. That's gonna go all over the world.
- [32:23]
Hoda Kotb
Your life is like. Well, your life is everything.
- [32:26]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Still full.
- [32:27]
Hoda Kotb
Kath, I love you.
- [32:28]
Kathie Lee Gifford
I love you more. What? I'm interview you next.
- [32:31]
Hoda Kotb
Okay, that's the next one.
- [32:32]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Okay.
- [32:33]
Hoda Kotb
Love you.
- [32:33]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Love you, baby.
- [32:39]
Hoda Kotb
Hey, guys, thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kot V is produced by Alison Berger and Mitch Rissmiller along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Mostarilli. Our audio engineers are Matt Tierney and Joe Plourd. Original music by Jon Estes. Libby Least is the executive Vice president of Today and Lifestyle.
- [33:32]
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- [33:36]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Uh, yeah.
- [33:38]
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- [33:55]
Kathie Lee Gifford
Wow, this smells heavenly clean.
- [33:57]
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